No.205150
Spoilers and leaks have always been an issue with WotC, even before the days of the Internet. Naturally, these were done (mostly) through official channels, or Usenet groups, but they existed, and as such, there is a long history involved with them.
So sit back, grab a seat, as I take you through the journey and controversies of leaks, and WotC.
No.205171
No.205227
>>205171
I do have a life outside mtg. I got called into work.
Anyway, in Garfields original vision, spoilers wouldn't exist. In fact, the reason things like Lace's, and Alpha's infamous rare Island were rares too throw people off on rarity.
A magazine in October claimed to have a accurate list of cards and rarities. It appeared they bought a bunch of sealed product, opened it, and judges based on what they got. It wasn't accurate.
The first official set lists came from Legends, and Antiquities. These two expansions had distribution issues, so it was literally impossible to pack cards in certain parts of the country, and Legend boxes only containing a handful of rares (with multiples of the same), weren't unheard of. In fact three years ago, my friend took a bonus and bought a legends box. It contained 20 Quarum Trench Gnomes.
The first pseudo spoilers was in Conjure Magazine (an early InQuest for a lack of a better description), and The Duelist, which typically just showed images (here is an infamous piece of art from FE in Conjour Mag).
Later, early spoilers came from Magazines and the official MTG comic books, one was an infamous 1994 (c) printed version of Fireball. Other comics came with early packs of cards, such as the Homelands comic came with a booster pack of Homelands, a month before the packs were commonly available.
Homelands Comics also featured spoilers, with back stories behind the cards spoiled (pic related). Look at this amazing fluff, combined to modern cards, even if the set is a little lack luster.
Spoilers remained like this for the next decade. One notable example was the Multiverse box, which featured a visions pack, that had a set number of cards, that were slightly different from the standard run, or too show off new mechanics (Odyssey had a number of mags come w/ the cards Mystic Zealot and Firebolt to show off the new mechanics of the cards).
In reality, this was a pretty good set up, but it wasn't meant to last, as with the Hasbro Acquisition, and the Internet, change was looming, for better or worse.
>Fallen Empires preview, mentioned above. Pretty standard fair for Mag ads at the time.
>1994 Fireball promo
>Homelands pages
>'Throat Wolf', a weird, fake leak, which became the card "Talruum Champion".
No.205428
In the early days of MtG, tournament organizers were given a "God book". These were binders with one of each of the most recent printed version of a card in it. This way, an organizer could look up and read a card without touching the players card, as well as see an potential errata on the card, when a player was playing the older versions of the card (this was important due to how some cards changed in the early days).
After revised, it was changed to print out of the most recent cards instead of actual cards, due to the increasing costs of transporting God books to events, as well as the increasing price of cards.
Fun Fact: the reason we know of Cindy V cards is because of said God Books.
God books became obsolete for the purpose listed above when Gatherer was launched in 2004, as Errata and corner case rulings could be labeled right there. However this wasn't the end of the God Book.
The God Book still existed in digital form, and typically were spoiled both in house, and too pro players. They originally used via email, but were eventually switched over and outsourced to Photobucket.
This ius where things get interesting. An early leak of RoE created an alarm among WotC inner staff, but they didn't make the panic well known. Instead, they let it slide, releasing a full Visual spoiler a few weeks early.
Then a major thing happened. A year later, the entire photobucket account w/ New Phyrexia was spoiled, showing each finalized version of the card, with the password to gain access to the private account. The people who spoiled it were Guillaume Matignon and Guillaume Wafo-Tapa, two authors of Lotus Noir, a French Mtg magazine, in an open IRC chat.
>Literally fell for pics or didn't happen.
Both players were banned over the leak, both bans lasted for about 3 years.
This revealed that, despite them being authors, they were also competitive players, and that competitive players had been given god books sometimes up to 5 months ahead of time. Player Matt Sperling commented to this as "The biggest mistake made was not Matignon sharing the list with his friends. It wasn't those friends sharing the list with the world. It was Wizards of the Coast providing an undisclosed competitive advantage to certain competitors."
Naturally WotC tried damage control, first by removing the content from the Major mtg sites, however, many minor sites posted the spoilers anyway, claiming they need the traffic, and competition.
Secondly, they tried to do a full visual spoiler "unusually early", however, everyone already was familiar with the set.
Since then, WotC has been a bit more careful about who gets God Books, and have since stopped giving them to pro-players (allegedly).
>A buy it yourself copy of a God Book, for it's original purpose.
Also Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays!
No.205440
>>205428
>Fun Fact: the reason we know of Cindy V cards is because of said God Books.
Cindy V cards?
No.205476
>>205440
Cards that were printed in house for use. Some designed by a "Cindy V". Included things like Mishra's Buick, and Urza's Lawn Ornament.
No.205524
>>205476
>Wizards gives people v cards in house
Come on, I know plenty of M:tG players still have their v card, but that's just dickish.
No.205752
>>205428
>This revealed that, despite them being authors, they were also competitive players, and that competitive players had been given god books sometimes up to 5 months ahead of time.
meanwhile
>Leaks create an unfair advantage as—because they do not go out over official channels—they are not as widely distributed to less-enfranchised players, thus creating an unfair advantage for some players.
No.205769
>>205752
>WotC thinks it's "unfair" that people use the internet
No.205771
>>205769
Not even that, apparently there are players who go to "official channels" (WotC site) but somehow miss all other mtg sites, all of which have leaked spoilers.
No.205785
A little known fact forgotten to time is, original, they wanted Torment and Judgment to have a simultaneous release.
This way, each set could focus on it's colors (Torment focused on black, and too a lesser extent Red, while Judgment focused on white, and too a lesser extent green).
However, they needed to naturally beta test both sets, mainly on MTG:O.
Shortly after the release of Odyssey, a glitch happened on MtG:O that allowed Judgment to be viewed by literally everyone. A few mods later, the set was playable, long before the release of Torment.
It was like this for a few days. WotC patched the glitch, but the damage was done, and people were able to view the entire set.
Throwing a tantrum, WotC made a more standard release schedule of both sets.
Next up: Rancored_Elf, the man who made Mark Rosewater says "FUCK!"
Also sorry for the lack of Images on this one.
No.205871
>>205785
Ooooh. I like these posts.
I still play EDH with some friends, and will likely keep a portion of my collection, but something I plan to do this week is cash in the REST of my collection to a local card shop for store credit. Figure I can use that to buy promos of my favorite cards for my favorite decks, or foils, and move along in life. It's a fun game but I don't like the direction they keep pushing with Standard and Limited. Limited is fun, but I'm not a big fan of constantly neutering cards around it and likewise Standard. I know I'm in a relative minority (or at least WotC has me believing that) and refuse to play rotating formats because my cards fall out of use and I don't really get enough chances to play them in the given time period. My options are play Limited/Vintage/EDH or quit completely. Got a Limited burn deck and a Modern werewolves deck (sentimental value) and a few EDH, but I just don't feel like pushing planeswalkers to be like the Marvel movies is a good idea.
I miss planes having stories and characters that grow and develop in-block and moving on to more stories. These days we have the same characters showing up everywhere and they only get so much growth before poof they're off somewhere else because they aren't allowed to "complete" their story since then the character's done. Oh and since they are always tied to some kind of recurring villain/problem they would likely have to kill the "bad guy" that WotC wants to reuse in order to find closure they aren't allowed to.
No.205909
>>205871
I also miss these.
No.205916
Did you know Mark Rosewater hates leaks? He despises them. While he loves spoilers, as a marketing tool, he absolutely hates leaks.
Enter Daron Rutter. He was an Administrator for MTGSalvation, under the name Rancored_Elf. Now, its no secret in the olden days MTGS was famous for it's rumor mill, how dubious it might be, because everything RE posted turned out to be true.
This lead to some strange situations, like people sending hate mail to WotC saying Frazzle should only cost 2U like in playtesting, or that Jitte should add BB instead of gaining life.
This was a strange situation for WotC, because they really didn't want to deal w this.
In December of 2005, three cards from the expansion "Time Spiral' were leaked in raw, playtest form. Mark Rosewater, who was spellslinging at an event in Tokyo at the time literally said "Fuck!" when he was informed of the leak. The issue was the "B" which would eventually become Time Spiral "Timeshifted", though that hadn't been settled yet.
WotC decided enough was enough, and sued RE. A settlement was reached out of court, and that's when RE stopped posting spoilers.
Bonus: A seller, back in 99, auctioned a uncut foil print sheet on Invasion on Ebay, complete with images. It also showed off the new split cards. This will lead up to my next discussion "A leak on craigslist".
No.205953
>>205916
>A leak on craiglist
FFS WoTC, get your shit together.
No.205955
>>205916
Maro is an idiot. His best designs are those he now hates as too confusing. Doesn't surprise me he subscribes to this "leaking cards out of order will fry players' brains" idea.
No.205977
>>205955
>this "leaking cards out of order will fry players' brains" idea.
It's not a fear that players won't get it (we narrowed down how <> worked pretty fast) but that all the argument over it will color (pun intended) players' interpretation of it. For example, we're never going to look at <> without thinking of those arguments and of the different ways it could have worked instead (which we might prefer). Thus putting players off the cards.
No.205989
>>205955
>hates the green Commander card that gives you a bunch of beasts and has them fight stuff because "green killing stuff is a color pie break"
>defends Mirror Match to the death, a blue card that clones every attacking creature and blocks, effectively reading "each attacking creatures deals damage to itself equal to its power." He claims that "it is within color for blue to clone things."
>"blue's weakness is that it is entirely reactive"
>"exceptions are not the norm"
>he doesn't realize that constructed formats are built on exceptions
No.205992
>>205989
He's also one of the people who gave us the modern day MtG "balance"
>Stone Rain? BROKEN
>Lightning Bolt? BROKEN
>Counterspell? BROKEN
>Wild Growth / Rampant Growth? BROKEN (note these are all commons)
>Bunch of rare/mythic creatures with stats boosted for no reason other than they're rare/mythic ? Perfectly fine :^)
>OP planewalkers (of course mythic rares)? Perfectly fine :^)
No.206000
>>205992
>>205989
>>205977
I could write an entire Magic: the Cuckening about MaRo and his mistakes.
Remember: "Infect is a fine mechanic, but I hope leeches is never printed again".
"The free mechanic wasn't nearly as broken as players claim it is, though it's still good".
"Land destruction is an unfun mechanic, and if I could go back in time, I'd remove it from existing".
"Magic NEEDS a fourth rarity".
I could go on.
No.206042
>>205989
>green fighting stuff is a colour pie break
Funnily enough the biggest green pie break (outside of time spiral) was Maro
No.206044
>>206042
What was it? All I can think of is the flying wasps in M201whatever, and MaRo hated those.
No.206056
>>206044
There is a card called Maro
No.206126
>>206056
Ah, but that's a super old card that was from they really had a grasp on the color pie.
No.206156
>>206042
Get this, his argument is something like
>Green removal should be reliant on creature spells. This opens the door for creatureless green decks and that's bad
No.206204
>>206156
That's retarded. Green creature with etb/activated fight is fine but spell/ability making token CREATURES that fight is not? How does that make any sense?
No.206216
>>206204
Say, that's an idea.
No.206233
More examples of how badly MTG is being cucked by Wizbro nowadays, from an earlier thread:
>>204118 (read this one
>>204234
>>204709
>>205090
>>205437 and this one in particular)
No.206454
>>206421
I should write a parody of American Pie
No.206460
No.206463
>>205916
In November of 2012 5 foil mythics appeared on craigslist in Sioux Falls.
The 5 mythics were Domni Rade, Aurelia, Enter the Infinite, Borbogymous, and Hellkite Tyrant.
The person who discovered the Ad, initially posted a link on MTGS rumormill, but later removed it, and went and bought the card, and it turns out it's legitimate.
Now initially, people thought they were fake, since "none of these cards are remotely playable)".
The second issue was how did he get these cards? It turns out that he grabbed them during the print job, and figured he could sell them anonymously on CL's for some extra cash. He quickly deleted them ad shortly after the thread was posted, and by proxy the email account, and from what I've managed to gather, got away with it.
No.206464
>>206463
How does one exactly play Enter the Infinite without getting fucked up next turn?
No.206466
>>206464
You don't. The idea (assuming there is an idea) is that it gets you all the pieces of your combo you need to win that turn, on the condition that you have to win that turn. Except that something like that won't happen because Jesus fuck 12 mana plus whatever you need to cast your win condition is not something that's going to happen ever.
It's the ultimate Timmy card.
No.206468
>>206463
>>205916
Come to think of it I remember some guy selling Guildpact cards a month or so before release.
No.206471
>>206466
You discard it to blast of genius. That's how I ran it in standard anyway. I miss that deck, good times.
No.206473
>>206464
Note that you put a card back and that the infinite hand size only lasts for the turn.
So you Enter on turn N, pick up your deck and put a card back.
On turn N+1 you have that turn to cast whatever from your deck, hopefully winning the game. Omniscience is a popular pick for this.
At the end of turn N+1 you discard down to regular hand size.
Turn N+2 you would be drawing from an empty library.
Assuming you didn't just win on turn N+1, anything that shuffles your yard into your library (ex. original eldrazi titans) would save you here.
No.206476
>>206464
I put one into my High Tide deck just for kicks. Lets me draw everything I need and I still have enough mana to do whatever else I want.
Then if need be I just Time Spiral everything back into my deck.
No.206485
>>206000 (checked)
I'd be interesting in reading that, seeing as I only came in (and left) magic since the end of Mirrodin.
No.206595
>>206485
I'll see what I can do. It would require LOTS of research and rereading.
>>206476
Shit like this is why I still play MtG.
Man that one LGS still hates the r/u standard deck I mentioned above.
No.206628
>Leaks create an unfair advantage as—because they do not go out over official channels—they are not as widely distributed to less-enfranchised players, thus creating an unfair advantage for some players.
-Trick Jarrett, 2015
>Your deck is your weapon. Why should you go into battle with anything but the best weapon available?
>Mr. Digges has spoken in the past of being constrained by the lack particular cards, or of actively choosing to restrict his options to make decks "easier to build" or "more fun" or whatever other abstract notions to which he assigns value. This is hopelessly quaint. There is one set of rules for every player. If you restrict yourself within those rules, you are hobbling yourself. Losing because you failed to optimize your strategy is not "fun," no matter which of these psychographics you supposedly represent.
-"Nicol Bolas", 2009
http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/sf/33a
Looks like not everyone at Wizards of the Coast is an unfun cuck.
>>206400
>ITT: Someone that wants counterspells in Blue's enemy colors without understanding how fight works.
>>206464
You play it with Niv Mizzet, the Firemind. :^)
No.206646
>>206628
In all fairness, I been building EDH decks or a few months now using only Alliances and back.
I enjoy the challenge. However, I totally agree w/ "Nicol" on this.
No.206650
>>206628
>leaks create unfair advantage over disenfranchised players
That's top 10 stupidest things I've ever heard.
No.206656
>>206463
As you can see, spoilers aren't anything new too WotC. This excluded leaks with other properties, focusing exclusively on MTG.
Now, this spoiler, which spoiled four cards, not counting expeditions, isn't the deepest spoil, nor is it the most revealing?
It was spoiled due to a controversial change in mechanic. This has to do w/ a distinct change in the nature of colorless mana, both in a flavorful, and a rule function.
Now, I'm first going to clear the difference between "Generic mana" and colorless mana.
Colorless mana is that, mana that lacks a definition. In the rules, anytime a card added (#), it was colorless. Generic mana was mana that could be of any color, and that was always a cost, never added. Now only one card had ever directly referenced generic mana, and that was Helm of Awakening. It was later errata'd.
Honestly, I had forgotten the concept that generic mana even existed. The last time I even heard a debate about it involved Nantuko Elder, where there was a debate that it should add one generic mana, since green was known to do that (look at Birds), and since at the times even lands said "add one colorless mana". However, a quick ruling ended that debate.
Since then, I hadn't heard the term generic mana (with the exception of reading Helm), since then, until last month.
When Kozilek and Wastes were spoiled. Now, according to WotC internal affairs, the earliest leak can be found to a SE Judge chat, in which, everyone in that chat was banned or suspended, for failing to report the leak. However, this can't truly be proven, it's just as likely that the leak originated from a chan that isn't half or full, or in one of the countless IRC mtg chats, FB groups, blogs, or even fucking Omegle.
Anyway, opinion on the mechanic, and the flavor change of it has been mixed, with none praising it. The argument stretches from "It ruins 20+ years of lore and mechanics" too "This is retarded, and needless" too the other end of the spectrum which is basically "it doesn't change anything".
I've literally seen only one person defend the mechanic, and that was in the Trick Jarrett thread.
Now the flavor aspect changed is what's colorless mana. In the old days, Colorless mana was unrefined mana, raw, and often unstable. Cards like Mana Vault and Basalt monolith utilized this idea effectively. While cards like Sisays Ring showed more mana could make colorless mana effective. It was also used to represent other resources (such as Urza lands and Mashra's Workshop), or currency (on things like Rogue Skycaptain,Mercaneries).
With this flavorful change, colorless mana now comes from 'wastes', which means Sol Ring worked with the Eldrazi all along (I kid).
The debate for why the change has happened is the most perplexing. Some claim it was to balance out Eldrazi in a bit of a way, but if that's the case, they should change the cards, not the mechanics of the game.
Others claim this change is for design space. However, MaRo has already claimed there isn't legs for "colorless being a cost" to be evergreen, which means this might be the only time we see this mechanic this decade.
Anyway, as referenced above, designer Trick Jarrett and Mark Rosewater wrote lengthy articles on why leaks are bad (third time MaRo had done this), and then they went and banned almost every important judge in the South East as an example.
This includes a two year ban on the only level 2 in the state of Missouri, and every level 3 in the State of Florida.
In protest, Onar of Magic Anti-scam wrote a lengthy article to encourage solidarity for the Judges, not WotC in the SE, and in protest, the Magic Judge App and Website (which isn't run by WotC) was shut down. I've been informed it has since been restored, but since I'm not a judge I can't be certain.
Hoenstly, the judge issue might have finally broke the base of MtG. Sure it's been cracking since Ice Age, but it's growth counter acted that, but this, this did what EDH couldn't, cause the base to feel isolated, even from each other.
I can't tell you if sales will be bad due to this leak (but if they are, you can certainly bet they will blame). I can't tell you where the leaks came from, but I can almost guarantee, they probably came from In House. I can tell you however, this isn't the end of this ride, but it's past the climax.
>two examples of said cards w/ generic in them.
>The two spoilers. Notice Wastes doesn't have a type.
>mfw all this bs happening.
This was a history of spoilers and leaks, and I hope you liked it.
No.206659
>>206464
You play Omniscience, then Enter the Infinite, then Laboratory Maniac, then a spell that draws you at least two cards.
No.206666
>>206656
Thanks FV. Reading this reminds me of a smaller scale version of what the MPAA is doing about its leaks.
http://phys.org/news/2015-12-movie-pirates-stolen-previews-latest.html
>>206421
More OGW spolers
No.206680
>>206668
>no black planeswalker
There a particular reason?
No.206681
>>206668
>Rare tutor that can only tutor mythics
>>206680
When you make one colour synonymous with evil and selfishness it's kind of hard to justify why a planeswalker of that colour would stand and risk their lives against the Eldrazi.
No.206687
>>206668
>Jace and Chandra teaming up again.
For some reason I really like that idea.
No.206688
>>206656
>I can't tell you if sales will be bad due to this leak (but if they are, you can certainly bet they will blame)
They won't be bad, but they might look bad compared to Khans. I don't know if they can beat the last few sets even with the lottery expeditions, this block is horrible in every aspect.
I've been playing on and off since Urza and this is literally the worst block I've ever seen, I haven't bought a single card from it and I don't intent to. Kamigawa at least had an interesting setting and cool art. Theros suddenly looks good.
No.206690
>>206668
Planewalkers were a mistake
No.206694
>>206681
>why stand against the Eldrazi
…Because they don't want to fucking die? Hell, the first time the Eldrazi were imprisoned was in part thanks to Sorin, an ostensibly black planeswalker.
No.206700
>>206694
The black planeswalker spot in the block is being filled by Ob Nixilis, who only wants to escape Zendikar by any means necessary, by reclaiming his spark.
He doesn't want to die either, but he rivals the other beings of Zendikar, and other planeswalkers.
No.206702
>>206694
Aye but Sorin only did it out of the broadest possible definition of self preservation. They want to have the vampire-but-not-really planeswalker show up on Innistrad so that they can sell packs and all the other black planeswalkers are either canonically fucking around on specifically non-Zendikarian planes or are so one dimensional that they'd have no reaction if someone started smacking them with a stick.
No.206707
>black Planeswalkers cannot be heroic
Clearly ya'll have never heard about the Umezawa family line. Toshiro fucked over the Daimyo's plan to be immortal and saved the Plane that way, while Tetsuo grew tired of his emperor fucking up the realm so he lured him to another plane and offed him there. Said emperor being NICOL FUCKING BOLAS, by the way.
No.206708
>>206680
Because the Black member of the team is Liliana, and she is currently fucking around trying to get rid of her various curses.
Ironically, if she'd known about Ob Nixilis's connection to the Chain Veil and come along to Zendikar with Jace, Ob Nixilis might not have been able to break Ulamog free of the hedron cage imprisoning him.
No.206711
>>205150
tfw owning an actual spoiler card
No.206724
No.206941
>>206688
> Theros suddenly looks good
See, I've always said Theros was not a bad block. it just didn't focus on what players wanted at the time. But now that they see an actual bad block, the worst one in magic history, they realize that Theros is actually well put together. Sure it might not be the powerhouse of innistrad or the scars of mirrodin block, or the fluff divas of Time Spiral and the first Ravnica block, but every aspect of it was given some care, from storytelling to the block theme to the mechanics.
Unlike Battle for Zendikar which has nothing to do with zendikar and everything to do with giant cthutons they don't know how to implement on paper properly, and the super special awesome friends who I'm sure everyone is tired of by now but we'll keep seeing because we can't stop the fucking dumbass normalfaggots from eating this marvel cinematic universe aping bullshit up.
>tfw liked Theros and Lorwyn for setting and mechanics, liked kamigawa and Homelands for fluff alone.
>tfw good fluff is dead, let alone trying to tie good fluff to good cards
Feels bad man.
No.206952
>>206941
I never thought Theros was horrible, just very mediocre with good bits here and there. Kinda like Kamigawa with worse art.
No.206957
>>206941
I always liked Devotion and there interactions w/ the gods.
Heroic was a nice mechanic too.
No.206959
>>206957
Yeah, Theros (the first set) was alright. Devotion is cool, heroic and monstrous are a little blunt but they're ok mechanics, scry lands are nice, planeswalker were all very cool. Some of the art was kinda shit, but it wasn't a complete disaster like the two small sets.
No.206960
>>206959
I did mean the block when I said that, but fair point.
Most of the art wqas shit, but the art in the set that was good, was pretty pleasing.
Also, check the first cuckening too see something related to an issue w/ Theros.
No.206966
>>206952
>was incredibly excited for enchantment themed block
>got a block all about creature combat where "enchantment" was stapled on the typeline instead
I dunno, I feel like being right pissed was a reasonable response. There are what, 10 non-aura/non-creature enchantments in the block? And of them, only two don't require creatures to supplement them. We didn't even get a proper enchantress until the last set. And speaking of Constellation, why is it represented on more black cards than white? Isn't white the "cares about enchantments" color?
I guess this sounds kinda winey, but it was not what I was expecting our hoping for.
No.206967
>>206966
Adding to this, what's with all the Origins cards that suddenly push enchantments? Is like they realized they fucked up. Or more likely, planned a staggered release in fear of a standard legal enchantress deck being unfun.
No.207020
>>206941
For what the single opinion of a random is worth; I kinda liked Heroic, even if it was a bit easy to abuse outside of standard (but then again nearly anything can be broken tenfold outside of standard)
No.207125
>>206694
Sorin only imprisoned them in the name of preserving his home plane because he knew what the Eldrazi could do. I was sure Wizards was going to have him come back to Zendikar and do all kinds of cool shit with Nahiri. Of course though, WotC just uses it as an excuse to push their marysue walkers plus Ob Nixilis, who wasn't really that interesting in the first place. Also, how do they explain him regaining his spark? He's a demon, per the lore, demons cannot have a planeswalker spark They can still travel between planes thoughSo I'm wondering what bullshit excuse they have for fucking the lore this time. Next thing you know, there's going to be an eldrazi walker in Return to Innistrad. Fuck Wizards, Fuck that guy from Roseanne, fuck Trick Jarret, fuck the rest of the design team, fuck Hasbro.
No.207169
Last night was a Gaddok Teeg buy out, today is an Eye of Ugin.
No.207186
>>206967
Yeah parts of Origins felt more like what Theros should've been. We probably have Maro to thank again for designing enchantment block that's all about enchantment CREATURES (because enchantments are OP and unfun and creatures are exciting).
No.207209
>>206967
The Ojutai had an enchantments theme in Dragons, so it's not totally unprecedented.
No.207216
>>207169
Myriad Landscape got bought out as well. Jumped from $.50 to $5. Glad I have 17 copies
No.207218
>>207125
and yet, we still buy packs.
No.207223
>>207218
Fuck that. I haven't bought packs, or singles from recent sets since Fate Reforged. Hell, the only reason I played Origins limited is because friends shared packs with me. I was kind of angry with my brother on Christmas because he got me a box of BFZ. Ended up drafting it with some buddies, and holy fuck it was terrible. It's so slow, all the removal is shit, and it's totally reliant on big rares. That is not what a healthy limited format looks like.
No.207224
>>207223
Sorry BFZ limited. With all the shit with the sue walkers I get confused now.
No.207226
>>207223
did you at least win the lotto and get one of them expensive expedition rares?
No.207227
>>207226
Nope. The most expensive pull was the New Ulamog I want to put him in an EDH deck, but I also want to rip it in half on principle. And that's another thing. Why the fuck are so many rares unplayable in constructed? There's only like 5 nonland rares over $5 in the set.
No.207228
>>207218
I played A LOT of limited during Khans. Didn't buy a single pack or card from the current block.
No.207229
>>207228
Khans and fate had pretty decent limited formats, and holy shit it was awesome drafting playable 3 color decks outside of cube. I didn't go near Dragons when I heard how shitty it was.
No.207233
>>206656
I already pre-ordered a fat pack because lands, but shit I think this might be the first pre-release I miss in awhile.
What I can't stand is this planeswalker support were seeing. Weren't these guys good enough on their own? Does the game really benefit from these sorts of cards? Or is it just for more casual players who only buy a couple of packs? So if they open up one of these they'll buy more to get planeswalkers.
The judge bannings are just icing the cake.
No.207234
>>207233
It's just Wizards trying to sell more planeswalkers Gotta get a playset of those $80 Jaces goy and pandering to normalfags.
No.207236
>>207234
Pretty sure "Magic is for neckbeards by neckbeards" is exactly what marketing is trying to avoid, yeah.
No.207242
>>207233
Oh boy a cycle of rares that only cares about mythics? Just what Magic needed to bring down the price of standard.
No.207271
>>207218
But anon, how else would you be able to get the NEW LIMITED EDITION EXPEDITION EDITIONS ALL ALL OF YOUR RARE LANDS, THAT WAY YOU CAN CORRECTLY COLORCODE YOUR SHECKLES I MEAN MANA.
>>207233
Prerelease is also going to be shit. Nothing like having one of your rares be near unusable just because you didn't luck out and pull a mythic of matching color.
No.207278
>>207271
>Mythics in color.
>Implying you'll ever get one that actually works well in limited that isn't a format staple.
About that…
No.207293
>>207233
I'm also skipping this prerelease.
First one I'm willingly skipping since Shards.
No.207296
>>207125
>It would surprise no one at this point if there was a Sliverwalker
No.207305
>>207293
>Skipping Shards.
Why?Just curious
No.207315
>>207236
Yes, that's true, but it's not normalfags that buy packs, it's "neckbeards"
And fix this fucking site Kikewheels. It's bad enough Infinity is shit.
No.207342
>>207305
I read that as:
>I've been attending everything since Shards, but I'm sitting this out
Not:
>I skipped Shards and I'm skipping this horseshit, too
No.207374
>>207305
I didn;t skip Shards. Shards was an awesome block. I skipped all of Lorwyn due to a number of reasons (but not of the set itself).
Since then, I only skipped New Phyrexia (had a baptism to go to that weekend, but I made it to release weekend), and Khans of Tarkir (I got sick that Friday, and had a plane to catch that Saturday, so I opted out of going to the Midnight).
Other then that, I've been to them all, even opened the Helavault, and did the Guild Race.
No.207764
>>207233
What will Oath of Chandra do?
No.207766
>>207764
2 damage across the board or maybe 3 to a creature/player on ETB
1 damage per turn per planeswalker
Cost of 5 or 6
No.207770
>>207764
>4 mana counterspell
>rare
>edh mechanic
joy
No.207780
>>207764
>That card
>That teamplay
>That flavourtext
Haha wow there's no way that's a real card
…
No.207783
>Land creatures
>Paying 0 mana
Wow. It's been a while.
No.207784
No.207785
No.207788
>>207764
>purple hippo
PHELDDAGRIF RISES.
No.207800
>>207770
Its technically a better Last Word, which got lots of fan fair when it came out.
No.207802
>>207784
The first thread was literally about feminists and cucks.
Then the name just stuck.
No.207823
>>207802
And?
/pol/ shit is still shit.
No.207841
>>206941
I'm not sure if I've been satisfied with a plane, fluffwise, since Alara.
Ravnica was a high point because its a novel concept that just bordered absurdity. A plethora of religious fanatics of varying stripes, the grimderp Dimir, a bureaucracy whose priority is inefficiency? And I don't care what MaRo says about Radiance, it represented the Boros's weird "Us against Them" and "Guilt by Association" philosophies. Each guild was just fucked up enough to the point that it made the others look normal by comparison.
It was fantasy-cyberpunk, down to the augments (auras) and corps (guilds) not giving a fuck about the average citizen. Hell, the average citizen had to worry just as much about any of the other guildless as they did the guilds.
And I think that's part of why I just couldn't get into Return, it tried to hard to humanize the setting, and almost seemed self-congratulatory for its progress. "Oh look, after the guilds fucked everything up, the guildless overthrew them, yey! Except we can't have that because we need the status quo. Ok, let's remake the guilds and put them on a shorter leash, that aught to help, right?" And so we get the Azorius bleeding into the Boros, a Rakdos who is less about the fun of destroying everything and more like a bunch of killer circus freaks. We lose the Simic entirely, and I honestly wouldn't mind its rebirth (same thing different tactic) if it didn't rely on the previously unmentioned plotpoint of an entire ocean having been somehow paved over. Etc, etc.
And then there's the involvement of Jace. "Nope, the guilds themselves couldn't possibly succeed Azor's challenge, but we can't just let the plane get nuked. I know, let's send in the smartest mindreader in the multiverse." What a contrived crock of shit.
I didn't mean to turn this into a rant about R:CoG vs RtR.
No.207844
>>207841
I managed to lose track of my point about RtR as well, which was that it didn't demonstrate any meaningful disadvantage to the new system as compared to the old. Nope, we're a freer society, and that's better because… we say it is.
No.207845
>>207784
you must be new here
or bait
this the 3rd thread in this series and has little to do with /pol/ and everything to with mtg's greatest fuck ups
>>207823
>/pol/ shit is still shit.
dis ain't /pol/ shit
No.207877
>>206960
>>207784
>>207787
>>207802
>>207843
>>207845
>>207845
Stop it, assholes. So here it is /tg/, not yours dirty boards. Go to masturbate for /cuteboys/ if you don't like this thread. It's a MTG thread, get out of here.
No.207880
>>207841
I loved Ravnica so much because it was quite a bit like Sigil, but still had that Magic flavor.
Also Izzet League.
No.207885
>>207877
You tagged (is that the word?) me twice in that little rant.
Nice
>>207880
Ravnica was my favorite setting. Each Guild felt unique and special in its own believable way, and then you had the minor guilds like the Haazda, and the Cult of Yore, which were more akin to the minor guilds.
The Jace book features a passage talking about all the Guilds, and how the ended up. With the Simic no longer existing, Seleysnia ended up in hiding due to the World Song keeping the Ghosts into hiding, the Boros under Feather were self fighting mercenaries. The Orzhov and the Azorious were the two legitimate governing bodies, and the Dimir simply disappeared. I forget about the rest.
I should write a post about revisiting planes, and fluff differences/inconsistencies.
No.207887
>>207885
Yeah, I read Agents of Artifice as well. From the top of my head:
Azorius: Remained THE LAW.
Orzhov: Remained bankers.
Dimir: Vanished, presumed gone.
Izzet: Still around to maintain shit.
Rakdos: Gone.
Golgari: Still kinda around.
Gruul: Still around, still not doing anything.
Boros: Mercenaries and enforcers.
Selesnya: Pretty much disbanded.
Simic: Gone.
Also, turns out that Doc Brown was an Izzet.
No.207890
File: 1451950237212.jpg (15.19 KB, 425x279, 425:279, you an avoid looking like ….jpg)
>>207877
Did you even read my post before counting among the /pol/ civil war spill over?
Come on anon.
You managed to cite it twice, you could have at least once read the content before looking at the picture and saying /pol/lack.
No.207891
>>207885
>I should write a post about revisiting planes, and fluff differences/inconsistencies.
sounds lovely.
No.207892
>>207890
/pol/ civil war?
>>207887
Yeah!
No.207893
>>207892
there's been a bunch of /leftypol/ and /pol/ shit going on and you've seen some of those bait threads they've been pushing around right?
And /pol/ civil war sounds snapper than /leftypol/ on /pol/ shitposting
No.207894
>>207893
Oh! Yeah, par the course. I stopped going to /pol/ because of 8chan. It's strongest asset is also its strongest weakness.
No.207902
>>207845
Technically it's the fourth one if you're counting the one made during the spam
No.207912
>>207902
I forgot about that?!
No.207967
It's just insulting at this point.
No.207973
>>207893
There is not civil war since /leftypol/ is fucking tiny when compared to /pol/.
It's just the leftist faggots feeling the heat everywhere online since the right wing is basically better at online agitation and trolling than them. /leftypol/ got so assblasted at the TRS trolling everywhere that they tried to raid the TRS forums by impersonating the writers and staff of TRS, an attempt that failed really quickly. If you want to see real shilling, you should check out a couple of threads on /k/. They involve /leftypol/fags getting annihilated by random Streloks.
Polite /sage/ for offtopic.
No.207988
>>207973
>There is not civil war since /leftypol/ is fucking tiny when compared to /pol/.
direct yourself to
>>207893
>And /pol/ civil war sounds snapper than /leftypol/ on /pol/ shitposting
No.208000
>>207967
I'm insulted.
I'd draft it though.
No.208038
>>207967
>common removal
>it's 100% shit limited fodder
Remember to preorder the next Hero's Downfall :^)
No.208042
>>207967
i didn't think they could make a shitter lava axe
No.208078
So my question in all of this is kinda hyper-tangential but why isn't there a big fuckoff page on 1d4chan dedicated to shit like this?
Like, why do we have whole page-chains on there dedicated to particularly popular quest threads but we don't have series of pages about all the blocks or a sub-portal about MtG on there?
The lore and the gameplay changes between blocks alone, without even getting into all the internal and tournament politics, would be interesting and long reads by themselves and could act as a primer for newfags to /tg/.
I don't get it.
No.208087
>>208078
1d4chan is kind of in a bad place right now - that's why the operation save 1d4chan threads cropped up. But, if you can compile it, it'll be interesting to see how long the page lasts.
No.208089
>>207912
Nothing (I think) was contributed in that thread that wasn't copied over to the next one. I just wanted to be pedantic.
No.208111
>>208078
Wait until I do the one based on controversial lore decisions? I know I touched on it in the first one, but again, if I wanted to, I could write an entire one on Mark "Roseanne" Rosewater.
No.208128
>>207764
Probably something like this
No.208135
So now do we get a mythic that's all 5 colors and a couple colorless that reads "If you control 5 different Legendary Enchantments with Oath in it's name, you win the game."?
No.208136
>>206656
This was a very nice read, thanks for sharing.
No.208150
>>208128
…..that just seems like 2 mana for 3 damage. Maybe you could get out one planeswalker to deal another two damage. But that seems like such a waste of a card.
No.208162
>>208078
Anon 1D4 chan is in a recovery period after some well needed chemo. If you want a good MtG page, be the change you want to be and toss in some alterations here and there if you're lucky other people will catch on and want to expand it as well.
It's great material, and for people like me who enjoy the lore but odn't have the cash or inclination to jump into the game it would be interesting enough to read up on so I'm certain some people would get into it.
No.208175
>>206680
black is now ebil nazis
No.208194
Why the fuck is this green?
No.208197
>>208175
But the nazis were white.
Both literally and in MtG color theory.
Maybe with a touch of red because of the blitzkrieg.
No.208220
>>208128
How fucking shit.
I honestly expected it to be something like
>Whenever a Planeswalker you control uses an ability, deal damage equal to the number of loyalty counters spent to target creature or player
>>208194
Because it would mostly just end up screwing green. I mean, what other colour has as much hexproof as green? I mean, do you really want blue to have a way to stop hexproof?
No.208224
>>208197
The Nazi's were white literally in MtG
>pic related
No.208226
>>208220
>>Whenever a Planeswalker you control uses an ability, deal damage equal to the number of loyalty counters spent to target creature or player
I don't think you understand how loyalty counters work.
>I mean, do you really want blue to have a way to stop hexproof?
Blue having a way to stop hexproof would make hexproof less of a braindead mechanic. If you were running Grixis control in Modern with a blue version of this as a sideboard card, it would at least lead to some interesting decisionmaking in the Bogles matchup. Do I tap out on turn 2 to be better able to answer his stuff? Or is that not worth it right now, meaning I should hold up Remand instead?
(I get that this card isn't Modern playable in any colour, but that isn't the point.)
Honestly, this card would be better suited as a blue card just because it cantrips. I know that a 2-mana sorcery speed effect which draws a card isn't that great, and probably won't see any constructed play, but it feels wrong for green to have such an easy way to do that. Elvish visionary is, at the very least, a creature card, and green likes creature cards. This is just some random enchantment which feels like it ought to be blue (or black?) to fit nicely into a control deck, or at least a control shell. Considering how fucking dead control is in Standard these days, I wouldn't have a problem with it at all.
And the loss of hexproof effect isn't tied to any particular colour, so the only thing keeping this as a green card is the ability to make things lose indestructible.
No.208235
>>208194
Because of the flavortext. Wizards wants to define walkers as 2 dimensional super heroes by inserting all powerful ebil god-things then showing you how much cooler planeswalkers are because they can totally kill them.
Every narrative with a commercial backing is plagued by this shit nowadays. It's so pathetically transparent and shallow, and people keep buying into it. This is why we can't have nice things.
No.208238
Hey, need advice…
i went into full (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻ in cockatrice yesterday because i ran into so many bleeding urzatrons, jund (i think thats what they call it) and blue+artifacts decks. didn't really do anything other than make a few misplays because i got so bored and unattentive of the mundane "here we go again" plays, also passing on all g2s
which is my best option to not completely quit MTG:
>netdeck and feign competitiveness
>pack unfun heavy counters and pray to luck out draws
>move to Standard format from modern and hope the cancer doesn't follow me (i think other formats are too restrictive)
>keep playing fun decks and hope for the best
>play rarely and only against buddy list "cool guys whoa aren't metadicks"
>git gud (ie. spectate more often)
i'm new at this, never owned a card but borrowed a few decks from friends back in the day so not completely oblivious to mechanics.
i also ran against a:
>opponent goes first
>Turn 1: Inquisition of Kozilek
>Turn 2: Inquisition of Kozilek, Serum Visions
>Turn 3: Lingering Souls
>Turn 4: Polymorph into Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
i'm not even mad, that's amazing
No.208253
>>208238
The best way to appreciate magic is to git gud. If you're so new you think counterspells are unfun, then you don't really appreciate the game. Counterspells are as much a part of Magic as Llanowar Elves and Lightning Bolt. The same is true of "netdecking" which is often just researching what kind of strategy you'd like to play and building it with obvious proxies to practice with friends, or to become more familiar with the format. Don't make me break out the bad engineer copypasta.
If you want to watch pro coverage, then use mtgcoverage.com for Twitch and YouTube video which are arranged in a way a human being can comprehend instead of the way StarCityGames et al organize their websites. SCG has unbelievably shitty business practices, but their live coverage is really good (if you can stand to skip through a few minutes of shilling between each game).
>move to Standard format from modern and hope the cancer doesn't follow me (i think other formats are too restrictive)
If you want diversity, Modern is probably your best bet without breaking your bank or being forced to play brainstorm + force of will. The power level between the top decks (Twin, Tron, the Rock) and the rest of the field (Infect, Delver, Elves, Merfolk, UW Sun Titan) is pretty even.
In terms of what medium to play, that's up to personal choice. I would never play a game of Magic on MTGO because it isn't fucking functional, but I've heard that the competition on Cockatrice can be dodgy. XMage is apparently a good, automated alternative, but I don't know how big the player base is.
No.208271
Just in case you weren't sure if power creep was real or not.
No.208272
>>208271
oh come on, power creep's been obvious for a long time. They've printed so many straight upgrades to old cards lately that it's not even funny. And just in what's been revealed so far, there's already like three new cards that are straight upgrades to similar effects.
No.208275
>>208272
Believe me, I'm familiar with power creep. I'll get a kick out of seeing Rosewater try to defend this as a perfectly fair and reasonable card.
No.208304
>>208271
Just in case you weren't sure if moving all usable cards to rare/mythic was real or not.
No.208309
>>208238
This anon >>208253 is mostly right.
I would recommend gitting gud as well, and staying within modern, as standard prices and rotation fuck you every time. If you really want a fun format though, EDH is great Best played in paper with a playgroup of friends. I play on XMage more than any other client, the player base is fairly large, but not quite as big as Cockatrice I don't think.
No.208310
>>208238
This anon >>208253 is mostly right.
I would recommend gitting gud as well, and staying within modern, as standard prices and rotation fuck you every time. If you really want a fun format though, EDH is great Best played in paper with a playgroup of friends. I play on XMage more than any other client, the player base is fairly large, but not quite as big as Cockatrice I don't think.
GOD FUCKING DAMMIT HOTWHEELS FIX THIS FUCKING SITE OR MOVE US TO LYNX
No.208355
>>208309
>>208253
on a different PC now
thanks.
i actually forgot to put
>open a room and just say no tron or jund
which is how a calm and reasonable person would probably handle it. lol
i have never bought MTG cards not do i ever plan to. i'm just here to have fun. sorry for infiltrating your hobby from /v with all my casualness
No.208359
>>208226
I don't know the comprehensive rules of Planeswalkers, just the face-value of them. Is there something to prevent an enchantment from interacting with loyalty counter usage in that way?
>>208271
>2/1 flyer that can't block for 1B
>Or pay 2DB for 2/1 flyer that can't block and your opponent sacrifices a creature
A quick search shows cards like Vampire Interloper, Vaporkin and Welkin Tern around the same power at 2 mana, and at 4 mana its arguably comparable to Nekrataal (2/1, first strike, destroy target nonblack, nonartifact creature, 2BB), except none of those cards are rare and for the sacrifice effect you need one strictly colourless source of mana, making it closer to a dual-colour card.
I think its a power creep in the sense you can choose its cost, but I think that's more of a 'rare' factor than power creep in this instance.
No.208363
>>208359
>Is there something to prevent an enchantment from interacting with loyalty counter usage in that way?
Your enchantment would break with any +abilities, and be abusable with -X abilities.
No.208406
>>208355
Its okay, I won't hate you much.
Both of these decks have severe weaknesses you can exploit. That is the trick to beating them.
>>208359
It shouldn't be a rare though, it isn't that good.
No.208420
You want power creep, here you go.
No.208440
>>208363
Then it would be reworded to only interact with minus abilities and I don't think -x abilities would exactly break it.
I understand if the idea is overpowered at that cost, but I don't think it would by any means break the game on a legendary enchantment since you are required to get a planeswalker out and remove loyalty counters for it to function.
I mean, the alternative right now is this '2 damage when you play a planeswalker'.
No.208454
>>208194
R.I.P. Avacyn EDH
2012-2016
No.208499
>>208498
First ability is white or black, second ability is blue (or green or red depending on the alignment to sorceries) and the last ability is any colour, probably black since it makes Blood Pet.
No.208500
If this card was not an Eldrazi charm, what color would it be?
No.208501
No.208506
>>208420
>Literally just mindstone for 2 mana
It's not broken or power creep at all. Visions had a pretty low power level to begin with, not to mention we got Dreamstone Hedron in RotE, which is the same thing but cmc 6 for 3 mana and sacs for 3 cards.
No.208513
>>208506
>Mirage block had a lower power level
How sad that feels now.
No.208514
>>208500
I think this turd is bad enough to go on a "worst cards ever" list, look at those fucking abilities
>first one will never be used
>second one will never be used
>third one is 2 mana, one of which must be colorless, for a 1/1
No.208516
>>208514
Its not that bad by any means.
No.208536
>>208514
You're joking right? Colorless mana isn't exactly hard to get access to, most decks already run a couple sources of it so that's hardly a downside although the third ability is probably the weakest on offer. The first ability has a lot of uses since it says 1 Power OR 1 Toughness, you can't remove something incredibly powerful but a lot of cards have a nasty habit of a much higher value of one and then only 1 Power or 1 Toughness. You can't tear a dragon out of the sky and there aren't too many valid targets in Standard but it has it's uses.
The second ability though I just think you're flat out wrong. Countering without having any blue mana up? Countering whatever spell they put in their deck that was strong enough to need to be a Sorcery? Please. If you don't think people will use that then you're crazy.
No.208549
>>208514
This card is actually insane and you are a moron.
No.208551
Ya know, I just realized that the plan of the Eldrazi is to kill all coloreds.
Good show, WotC.
No.208577
Wait, how would D mana work for the rest of the block? Seems weird to just pull new mana in the middle of a block.
No.208594
>>208577
Considering that nothing else is going to cost colorless mana specifically for a long time (if ever), it's going to not make any difference. Still weird that they put it at the end rather than the beginning.
No.208599
>>208594
Yeah, it's almost like they pulled it to remedy that shitty devoid mechanic.
No.208600
I don't really like all of these planeswalker focused rares. It feels like there's pressure to keep buying packs to get planeswalkers. And in stuff like Sealed and Draft where chances are you're not pulling a planeswalker it's completely garbage.
No.208603
>>208594
As an artifact whore I look forward to the possibility of D being used in another artifact themed block.
No.208604
>>208600
Planeswalkers really shouldn't be the meat and potatoes of a deck, they're real helpful, but it's better to build a deck around something like Lazav, rather than herpaderp Jace the edgy blue mage.
No.208616
>>208604
not the anon you're replying to b-but I love Jace (well Jace in his first arc).
No.208620
>>208616
Before he went full edgy blue "im smurt n edgee" mentality, right?
No.208638
Posting this now in case I forget by the time of the next ban list update.
No.208646
>>208638
>Amulet Bloom
>Banned
Well I'm sorry I don't want my Transguild Promenade not to completely blow my tempo early game.
No.208655
>>208646
The point is they're reporting on the ban list before it's been posted.
No.208669
No.208754
>>208638
Interesting….
On one hand, Bloom is a hard deck to play against, and requires some dedication to hate. On the other hand, a little hate and the deck crumbles on itself. I once countered Amulet, then surgical extractioned it, causing the deck to just be an extremely ineffectual deck.
Alas, I guess the average 'pro' can't think like I do, and instead just whined while bloom players played turn 2/3 Titans.
What a sad state for MtG…
Also more proof of a connection between WotC/SCG, if bloom gets banned.
No.208766
>>208536
>>208516
>>208549
I'm entirely serious, believe me.
What does the first ability hit? What's worth playing that has one power/toughness?
Countering only sorceries has always been worthless as well, there's a reason bant charm and dispel see play but things like envelop see almost none.
It goes without saying that the third ability is weak as fuck.
No.208768
Jesus christ, what was wizards thinking with this shit?
WHY IS THIS A FUCKING COMMON?
No.208778
>>208766
Sometimes you need a chump.
The second ability is useful, but not great.
the first is same. can't wait to hit a ball lightning with it.
This here is what Charms were suppose to be. Three small effects on a card to give the card a deal of versatility.
No.208791
>>208768
Hmmm, it being an instant makes it interesting. Im still not sure it is really "broken" or anything at 3 mana though. And the lifegain can become a moot point really. I think it might be really fun in limited though.
No.208792
>>208791
His point is that it's better than most of the rare's we've seen, further making the rarity system feel arbitrary.
No.208794
>>208792
Ahhhh, I understand now. Makes sense. I always felt it was sort of arbitrary when they decided to change rarity for card reprints.
No.208796
Does Cockatrice still exist? If not what can I use to play MtG online for free?
No.208797
>>208768
I know Green and Black share graveyards as a place they can interact with but all I'm thinking about now is that they really gave Green a graveyard interaction I couldn't imagine in Black. It feels like they're shifting the power more to Green and that makes me a bit uncomfortable.
It's a solid card and I play a lot of Green so I'm happy to see it but I hope they give Black revival some of this creep to keep up.
No.208798
>>208768
Why not? Two simple effects are too much?
No.208836
>>208797
>return target creature or land land to owner's hand from graveyard, gain six life
The hell? This is BW card shit.
No.208841
>>208836
B-but it involves lands!
No.208847
>>208796
I personally use Xmage and it's still up(although it sometimes just drops me).
Had some great EDH games not to long ago.
No.208860
>>208841
So does peak eruption.
No.208884
>>208768
What's the issue on this?
No.208894
>>208766
>1 power or toughness
Deathrite Shaman
Thalia
Deceiver Exarch
Pestermite
Young Pyromancer
Like all of elves
Delver of Secrets
Mother of Runes
Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
Phyrexian Revoker
>sorcery
Terminus
Show and Tell
Just about every tutor
Natural Order
Green Sun's Zenith
Yawgmoth's Will
Past in Flames
>1/1
Sometimes you just need a body. Or to bank a mana for later use
No.208968
>>208894
Though, it's paying 2 mana for a 1/1 sac for 1 D mana.
No.208969
>>208894
Also Birds
Dorks
Ornithopter
Spellskite
Azami
>Sorcery
Entreat
Every Wrath effect
Chain Lightning/Lava Spike
Wheel/Reforge the Soul
Summer Bloom
No.208971
>>208969
Obzedat's Aid,
Debt to the Deathless
Merciless Eviction
Utter End,
Spelltwine,
And every single spell with the keyword Cipher.
No.208972
>>208968
that's not so bad, you can cast if if you sat on the man, drop out the scion swing next turn and/or sac it for a larger drop.
Not strictly great, bit of a waste really but it's still an option
No.208982
>>208972
I feel the scion mechanic was mis-used this time. They come out so few in number that it becomes a waste.
No.208986
>>208982
Yeah, but they did buff them to 1/1s compared to 0/1s
perhaps they are worried about warping standard having a card spawning too many bloodpets.
With monastery mentor still in standard they need to be a bit careful
No.209003
>>208986
It took me 20 minutes to figure out what you meant.
Monastery should be a legendary, because that suits tokens fast with Jeskai.
No.209384
>>206707
the fuck is this weebshit
selling all my cards
No.209420
No.210102
(Disclaimer: I don't like proxies. In fact, I hate proxies, I hate the very concept of it in the way most people use them. However, I will attempt to be objective about it).
Proxies. Proxies have a strange history with M:tG. In the early days, proxies were largely frowned upon, however, WotC in some sense endorsed them. It was naturally up to the tournament organizer, but you could play with proxies if:
>you owned the cards
>and had the card on you (sometimes photos of the card could work too, but that was short lived).
This in the early days was to preserve wear and tear on the cards.
This still is in the books, but good luck finding a judge to endorse it at a legacy event today.
Now WotC has officially endorsed proxies twice, in it's history. The first time was 'blank' cards. These were cards that came in tournament decks, gold bordered, non-tournament legal decks that were reconstruction of notable tournament decks of the time. Blank cards were cards in these decks, that could be proxied of cards on the reserve list. Later, just due to popularity.
The second time was in Innistrad, with 'flip checklists'. These were basically cards with a standard back, that had the list of names that were double faced. The idea was you could run a double faced card without sleeves. It was re-used in Dark Ascension, and later with Magic Origins, on the flip Planeswalkers.
Now, the issue with proxies come up w/ the issue of pricing. With SCG's controlling the price of cards on a whim, and with the advent of tech that can allow people to make there own cards on a whim, proxying cards you have no intention to buy has become a chic thing to do. Too those that defend the process, it's a way to customize there deck in ways that would be impossible otherwise. To those who are against it, it's lazy, cheap, and defeats the goal of hunting after cards (or saving and buying them).
Another reason to proxy is to write info on draft chaffe/bulk, too test a deck, typically in standard, before buying it.
Now, WotC official stance has always been, never in sanctioned events. However, with the growing popularity of unsanctioned events (especially in Eternal formats), WotC has changed the policy. The new policy on the WPN (Wizard's Play Network), is no proxies allowed in store, or we will remove your sanctioned status, and from WPN. Most stores, being unable to afford being removed from this, has simply complied. Not too say everyone did, buit the fact that the number of stores who did verse the ones who didn't paints an obvious picture.
I will post more on this if it develops.
>'blank proxy'
>Innistrad and Origin check list flips
>custom proxy, using MSE
>a more traditional 'cheap proxy'. Not the best picture of one, but what I could fine.
No.210110
>>210102
>proxies
I still don't get why people get so upset over people who use proxies. especially proxies of expensive cards.
like you're mad that they thought of it first or your mad that they don't pay the same barrier to entry that you do.
Magic's quickly becoming a game of 200+ dollar decks, and unlike warhammer figs cards can be printed cheaply so they don't really have the technical aspect to justify the price.
The cards are only scarce and expensive because they are printed that way. It's an artificial scarcity.
No.210111
>>210110
It's about the barrier.
Magic was always about finding the card and using it, you don't find it, you don't use it.
Now, the last part is certainly true, but it wasn't always for the same intent. In fact, with the exception of Moat, most early chase rares would surprise you. The highest demanded card in Limited Edition? Icy Manipulator (with Shivan Dragon and Disc trailing closely behind it).
Ice Age, it wasn't Necro, it was again, Icy fucking Manipulator. With Zuran Orb trailing closely second.
The Chase cards in Alliances were Diminishing Returns and Balduvian Horde. Fuck, FoW was a .25 until Combo Winter made it a must have.
People didn't even like Flash, Squandered resources, or Prosperity at release of Mirage. Dreadnaught was the chase rare of the set (then wasn't, then was again). Lions Eye Diamond (the most expensive card currently in the set), would spend close to a decade being considered unplayable.
What I'm trying to say is, there use to be a natural flow on the rarity of cards. No premium rares, or mythics. Just three rarities, all had the same number on the print sheet (excluding the small expansions in 94).
However, in recent years, I can understand being pissed about prices, but fuck, I'm not letting some fuckwit who was too lazy to dig through a common box proxy Wild Mongrel, nor am I letting that guy run Moxes he didn't earn.
Remember, Magic isn't pay to win, it's pay to play.
No.210114
>>210111
so what you're saying is that you don't think you can beat a deck that proxies without proxying yourself and because you don't do it they shouldn't either.
That's fine and all but as technology progresses and the ability to make perfect replications increases you're going to find yourself in the same spot as the knight who still clings to his armor even when crossbows came into heavy use.
yeah you have your tradition of digging through common boxes but technology is bringing the technology to the common man and that has historically been the death of tradition.
No.210117
>>210114
Except they are still proxies.
I'll continue to call out faggots for using proxies, and ridicule them in public, like I have in the past.
The one time I'll give you an exception is if the person owns the card, after all, wear and tear.
Now, you are assuming that I would lose to a deck running proxies, but you would be wrong. I'd give them a run for there money, and if lady luck has a favor win, with nothing more then what I own, and my ability to pilot. Then I'll make fun of them for resorting to proxies, and tell them that's why they lost in the first place.
No.210118
>>210114
What I'm basically saying is, someone shouldn't get something for free, while others work for it.
No.210120
>>210118
so delete all your gaming pdfs then?
your philosophy really doesn't mesh with /tg/, especially given how we are quick to just cut and paste excerpts from rulebooks or illegal card spoilers whenever we need to.
No.210124
>>210120
I don't own any pdf's?
I'm not a fan of adobe.
When needed (though I don't rp much), I burrow a friends book, and when I need to delve into a system, I go out and buy the hard cover.
No.210125
No.210126
>>210124
if you're not lying to cover up your own hypocrisy then you should be put in a museum.
It's like you're on the enterprise but refuse to use the replicators because it's too easy, they're too free, and you don't like that they are manufactured by starfleet.
No.210128
>>210111
>However, in recent years, I can understand being pissed about prices, but fuck, I'm not letting some fuckwit who was too lazy to dig through a common box proxy Wild Mongrel
That's at least a defendable viewpoint. Wild Mongrel will run you, like, $8 for a playset, so a player should make the effort to have actual cards to play actual Magic. Fair enough.
>nor am I letting that guy run Moxes he didn't earn.
Ahahahahahaha, are you fucking serious? You're so Jewish you won't even play a game of cardboard rectangles with somebody unless he spent UPWARDS OF A THOUSAND DOLLARS on a single copy of a card, multiple times? How the fuck do you "earn" a mox, exactly? Do you seriously only want to play Vintage, a dying and niche format to begin with, with people who are willing to spend as much on a single piece of cardboard as the rest of us spent on a used car? There's no way anybody could actually be this retarded, you must be having a ruse.
>>210118
>someone shouldn't get something for free, while others work for it.
>>210124
>when I need to delve into a system, I go out and buy the hard cover.
Oh, I see, you're just a normalfaggot who enjoys being corporate livestock. That's one thing if you apply it to life things, like a house, but you are aware that things like Magic are RECREATIONAL hobbies, right? This isn't something where you need to prove your credentials to the world in order to take part in. It's a fucking hobby (it's meant to bring people together) and you're arguing in favour of a heavily divided player base.
No.210132
>>210102
I mentioned this could be what kills Magic over at half-chan, but the shills immediately jumped in on me. THIS could start making Magic toxic to new players, and reduce the "fun" enough to where Magic starts to be less looked on as the money game and more "If just one proxy user is caught here WotC will embargo us".
It's totally on. This is Gamergate grade.
No.210133
>>210124
>I don't own any pdf's?
>I'm not a fan of adobe.
Oh my god how did I miss this? You can't be real, you're a time traveller.
No.210141
>>210126
I don't. Really the only thing I have is some 40k rule books, and handful of codex's for last edition. I alos found a nice copy of the Red box I bought, as well as an old copy of Chainmail I picked up.
I might still have a version of Mage Knight I printed out from the old rule sheet of Mage Knight I use to play in 2002.
My Gf and her brother have basically a complete 3.5 collection, with an exception being psionic books, since they never run them.
>>210128
I don't even own moxes. I just make sure to pack Energy Flux or Mox monkey to balance it out. However, I wouldn't allow someone to use proxies, unless they were testing.
>>210132
It could. I never even seen as much normies as pissed as this. I might not use proxies, but the players that do have all the right too. WotC is over stepping its bounds on this one.
No.210149
>>210141
>My Gf and her brother have basically a complete 3.5 collection, with an exception being psionic books, since they never run them.
yeah so do I.
No.210152
>>210149
No, you don't.
Long after your external hard drive has fried, our books will be intact.
This is just strange to me. You seriously don't own books for your gaming use? Like, I've heard of people using pdf's for the obscure and rare, but all your books?
Why?
No.210156
>>210110
>200+ dollar decks
Isnt it 750+ now?
No.210159
>>210152
Even when I buy rulebooks I always get them in pdf if I can instead of hardback. It's not even about the price drop either, I just like pdfs more. I also hate adobe, but that's why I use one of the several pdf reads/writers that are free online, and often open-source.
>Long after your external hard drive has fried, our books will be intact.
Uhh, not really? I mean I guess it's technically true, but the external isn't the important bit, the files are, which I have multiple copies of in many places, I can share with my friends if we want to look up multiple things at once, and I always transport over when I replace my computer.
Add in how much easier it is to sort files, and keep them sorted, than a physical library, especially when you move a lot like I do, and the benefits really start to shine through.
I mean, even if you don't want to have to go to your computer for the rulebook, I can upload the ones I want onto a tablet and just use that to be more portable than a book. Heck I've gotten them to load onto e-readers so the battery life is about a week if that is a potential issue for you.
The cost of tablets/e-readers is also not really a concern with how much you save on digital copies of books, plus they can go for like $20 each if you look around.
No.210163
>>208768
Doesn't seem that broken?
No.210164
>>210159
>not having a Cadillac large enough to carry all your gaming supplies when you move.
>not selling what you don't need on Craigslist.
It's like you don't even capitalism man.
Plus I'm not carrying a tracking device around in my pocket. What do I look like, a good goy?
>pic related, same model, different car.
No.210165
>>210152
>implying I don't have all this shit backed up on multiple drives
>implying your decaying paper product is any more robust than my pdf collection
all my books. and I buy the core books for all the games my group ACTUALLY plays. fucking flighty absent minded players, always wanting to try new and popular systems If I bought every system for every game they want to play I'd be on the streets.
the real question is, why would you spend all that fucking money on splats when you're only going to use the rules in it once, maybe twice? or to grab one prestige from it?
No.210166
>>210152
>it's impossible to backup files
Masterful ruse. You seriously had me going there.
>>210163
You're not honestly comparing a 1GG sorcery speed effect to a 2G instant effect + 6 life, are you? Witness isn't broken because it's difficult to break in green, and there are better ways to do it outside of those colours (Past in Flames, Yawgmoth's Will).
The targeting restrictions are different, sure, but if you look at recent sets, the ability to recur creatures from graveyard to hand has been heavily restricted: you need to play a bad card like Dutiful Attendant, or something needing setup like Sibsig Muckdraggers (or whatever its name was), or something which is inherently kind of tricky like Macabre Waltz, and you can only do it on your turn.
This violates all of these rules (not black, doesn't tie up your mana on your turn, doesn't carry the risk of being killed during setup because it gains you back a third of your life total), and it's a fucking common in an era where creatures are usually the most powerful things you can be doing.
Will it be crazy broken? Probably not. Will it be format warping in Limited, given its common rarity? Almost certainly.
No.210172
>>210166
With Eternal Witness, Down/Dirty, Reclaim, Evolution Charm, Make a Wish etc etc Green has quite a bit of support for this mechanic for… like since forever. (If you go before Modern I think there's even like… Elvish Cache or something.)
Green has also had lifegain at instant speed for a long time.
Pulse of Murasa ONLY targets lands and creatures, which is green, and gives life, which is green, neither of which are particularly helpful at instant speed unless you pull something with Flash and have some spare mana.
Eternal Witness pulls ANYTHING and gives you a 2/1 creature, which many people would argue is more versatile and useful than 6 life.
No.210174
>>210165
>>210166
Alas, we must agree to disagree.
>>210172
This shit is comparable to E-Wit in mono, but throw in any other color, and E-wit is better.
No.210184
>>210172
>>210174
>With Eternal Witness, Down/Dirty, Reclaim, Evolution Charm, Make a Wish etc etc Green has quite a bit of support for this mechanic for… like since forever. (If you go before Modern I think there's even like… Elvish Cache or something.)
The only card of those you listed which targets a creature card specifically is from Planar Chaos, whose entire point as a set was to do wacky things the colour pie wouldn't normally allow. The rest all say "target card" rather than "target creature card," or have a drawback (at random, or at the cost of a draw step). You might not think it's a big difference, target card vs target creature card, but making Reanimate cost W instead of B would be pretty fucking off-colour, even though white has access to reanimation of permanents (Sun Titan, that shitty rare with Rebound from DTK). Would you seriously be accepting of a green Macabre Waltz?
>Green has also had lifegain at instant speed for a long time.
At no point did I say anything contradicting this.
>Pulse of Murasa ONLY targets lands and creatures, which is green, and gives life, which is green, neither of which are particularly helpful at instant speed unless you pull something with Flash and have some spare mana.
Gaining six life at instant speed in the face of a lethal burn spell or combat step is pretty useful. In Limited, it can also trigger any of the vampires at instand speed. You don't need to have a creature with flash in order for this effect to be good, since it's a card which replaces itself (inherently kind of durdly or grindy) and mitigates the drawbacks of being durdly or grindy (dying to aggro).
>Eternal Witness pulls ANYTHING and gives you a 2/1 creature, which many people would argue is more versatile and useful than 6 life.
Yes, which is why, as I fucking stated, this is not better than Eternal Witness in any non-rotating format. I'm talking about BFZ and OGW Limited, and possibly Standard depending on what it looks like. My point is that the effect of Pulse of Murasa is too strong to have at common in a slow Limited environment with really good creatures and weak removal, which is exactly what BFZ is and almost certainly what OGW will be. You completely ignored this point in your post. Good job.
No.210203
>>210184
Green has always been about creatures and lands first, other cards later. If you think pulling creature cards from your graveyard is off in green I don't know what to tell you. You barely mention era and I think your largely wrong about it not being green.
But let's just spend the next 6 posts cherry picking the intent of each others words.
No.210210
>>210128
Holy shit, this nigger reeks of trying too hard.
>>210156
Depends on the format. Standard is creeping up, but with how shit BfZ was there may or may not be a drop in price soon once Khans rotates. Either that or Hangerback will skyrocket.
>>210111
Fucking this, sans cringy wording. 9/10 when I played against people who used proxies they were obnoxious deckbuilders who just wanted an excuse to cram as many power cards as they could into a deck and call it a day. Then, citing the ban list always stops 'em because they don't know how the cards run before testing them. If you're using them to test standard and real decks, great. Just get that shit out of my face if you're not.
It's a lot like allowing hacked legends in a game of Pokemon. Sure, there's legitimate uses for it like testing a Zapdos build because you don't want to RNG and save after getting the wrong nature, but most of the time the person on the other end just wants to be a shit and try to (and fail to) sweep with Mewtwo/Darkrai/Rayquaza/Arceus…
If you're not playing Legacy, you don't need a Black Lotus.
No.210213
>>210184
>I'm talking about BFZ and OGW Limited
Wow, a common somewhat good in limited (3/5 at best), hold the fucking press.
>and possibly Standard
Yeah, no.
No.210214
>>210212
wait, people have to pay real money for cards in the official MtG video game?
And they're that expensive?
No.210238
>Wonder what 'pro' mtg is like
>Look up tournaments on YT
>Half the screen is covered in banner/scoreboard/twitter feed
>Only rarely show what the cards are
>People who don't know the set cards off by heart have no way to know what the fuck is going on
No.210239
>>210214
MODO allow players to redeem a complete set of online cards for the paper equivalent. It's one of the many failures Wizards have in regards to technology as it somewhat ties a cards price to the paper version.
No.210241
>>210184
In all honesty, it will probably replace Feed the Clan in the board of my Temur deck.
No.210303
>>210238
Holy shit this. Magic coverage is fucking unwatchable to the uninformed. Why hand cams aren't standard I still don't understand.
No.210330
>>210212
Consider for a moment how many cards standard once had to choose from. Next, consider that Planewalkers in Theros weren't completely broken. Finally, consider how limited the options in BfZ standard are when everyone's basically getting the same Khans cards over and over + Hangerback + Planeswalkers.
Also curious for the explanation as to why there's such a huge gap between MO and paper prices.
No.210373
>>210102
>The new policy on the WPN (Wizard's Play Network), is no proxies allowed in store, or we will remove your sanctioned status, and from WPN. Most stores, being unable to afford being removed from this, has simply complied. Not too say everyone did, buit the fact that the number of stores who did verse the ones who didn't paints an obvious picture.
Wait, when did they do that? Haven't played actively since modern season around Theros block, didn't remember that rule on the books.
No.210450
>>210373
Its a new rule, been just enforced in the last week or so.
No.210453
>>210117
>Getting mad that people find ways to circumvent the cardboard jew
Piss off, m8.
No.210604
>>208638
Well looks like SCG get early access to the ban list changes.
No.210612
>>210604
Impossible. Leaks create an unfair advantage as they are not as widely distributed to less-enfranchised players, thus creating an unfair advantage for some players. Wizards would never do that.
No.210620
>>210114
>you're going to find yourself in the same spot as the knight who still clings to his armor even when crossbows came into heavy use.
But that's an excellent spot.
No.210642
>>210612
Holy shit, how have I not seen this image before?
You sir, are an asset to Magic the Cuckening
No.210651
>>210642
I captured it from their stream once, it was too perfect. I don't remember if I've posted it before.
No.210673
>>210651
Randy: Mr. Sutcliffe, do you think the players know?
Marshall: Yes Buehler they know.
No.212044
>>210303
Competitive magic should take a few ques from competitive poker.
No.214340
What are the archetypes associated with the ten two-colored decks, anyway?
W/U: Locking down the board.
W/B: Dunno. Lots of sacrifices to whittle your enemy away?
U/B: Underhanded tactics, manipulating libraries and general douchebaggery.
U/R: Sorceries and Instants all day erry day.
B/R: FUCK EVERYTHING. Hurt yourself to hurt the other faster.
B/G: Mastery of the graveyard: recycling is the way to go.
R/G: Lots of big scary monsters and stuff to buff them.
R/W: Massive hordes of small creatures and things to get rid of big nasty things.
G/W: Token generation supplemented by big monsters.
G/U: Putting monsters onto the field and manipulating them in various ways.
I likely got most of them wrong, so what are the correct archetypes?
No.214679
File: 1454191353690.gif (121.92 KB, 616x769, 616:769, Family Circus references W….gif)
>>214340
In BFZ limited or just in general?
In general, you're pretty accurate. Most of those definitions are pretty accurate to the Ravnica guilds, which are the archetype definitions according to Wizards (for better and for worse). The only places where you're off are WB, BR, and UG.
WB is definitely about whittling your enemy away, but Wizards have toned down the need for you to hurt yourself in the process recently, however slightly. Compare cards like Orzhov Guildmare to Vizkopa Guildmage. The first one was very flavourful, but required tonnes of mana to do anything meaningful, and you had to be ahead the entire time you were pumping mana into it.
Vizkopa Guildmage, although less interesting, is basically all upside. WB has had a big focus on lifegain/lifedrain in recent sets, and not just RTR block. You had things like Underworld Coinsmith, Athreos, Scholar of Athreos and Odunos River Trawler from Theros block, as well as Karlov from the recent commander precons.
BR also has been given more reach in recent sets with things like Thunderbreak Regent and Draconic Roar. There was a fringe BR Dragons deck in Standard, for instance, which had the same midrange gameplan of playing good creatures and good removal, but the way those all lined up, they often dealt damage to the opponent in addition to being value plays. What I mean is, even if your opponent kills your Thunderbreak Regent before you get to attack with it, he still takes three damage to the face from the trigger.
BR can also focus way more on control than aggro, using black discard and red burn to prevent the opponent from playing anything big.
UG is also a little different from your definition, in that it has ways to protect its monsters and get ahead from having played them more easily than either RG or GW. Things like Biomantic Mastery, Momir Vig, and Prime Speaker Zegana help you to restock your hand, because the threats themselves are usually just big dumb beaters without the aggressive abilities you'd see on red monsters (trample, haste, damage-based abilities, etc.). They usually have bizarre combinations of keywords and abilities to make up for it, like Horizon Chimera and Fleetfeather Cockatrice from Theros block.
The Simic have a big of a subtheme of taking an underwhelming vanilla creature and making it into something larger, which plays well with both Graft and Evolve as mechanics, but that's mostly limited to them in particular.
No.214681
>>214679
>The Simic have a big of a subtheme
*the simic have a bit of a subtheme
Caught that just as I pushed the submit button.
No.214886
>>214340
This is what WotC wants friends. Each color combination to be shoe horned into 'archtypes'.
Don't let this happen.
No.214901
>>214886
>Don't let this happen.
It already did. They even design limited around it these days.
No.214923
>>214901
>tfw enchantress is kill
Fuck Theros
No.214929
>>214340
>>214886
>>214901
I think the main issue with the idea of archetypes is limiting too much, but most of the archetypes are meant to be an extrapolation of how the two colours best work together (with some exceptions).
I could see a few alternatives, like flying for WU, enchantments for WU or WG and so on, but if you were just making cards without an archetype, they would fall into three groups;
Good in the decks that those colours play in, not good in the decks that those colours play it, so good you build a deck around it. Admittedly, that's such a fucking general line you can apply it to any card, I'm just trying to say, archetypes aren't inherently bad and don't come from a bad place, more a poor implementation.
No.214965
>>214929
I've made U/R burn, or fuck even mono blue burn.
I've literally run control in every color of the game.
>>214901
>letting WotC tell you how to play your game.
No.215080
>>214965
Sure, you can play casual or something any way you want, but it won't change the fact that nowadays they literally design most cards to fit into convenient 2-3 color deck archetypes, both in limited and constructed.
No.215088
No.215093
>>205524
Whats so special about the V cards? Are they like Phill Foglio's old unglued stuff?
No.215207
>>215080
After everyone got so upset over Lorwyn's "dial-a-deck" design I'm surprised people like modern magic anymore.
I mean, modern magic is essentially designed so that once you pick your colors you basically have your "good cards" in front of you and you just smash them together into WotC's expected meta and there's rarely any breakaway or deviance and when it is its at a level they overlook treasure cruise at common kek.
It's the same shit as the dial-a-deck tribal design from lorwyn but the philosophy expanded to the whole game, but I guess they are just really subtle about it now.
No.215237
>>215207
>>215207
>>215207
Not really, though it deviated a bit in Khans, which is why Khans was so based.
No.215972
Holy shit. It's like I'm playing modern in standard.
4 Slip Through Space
1 Wandering Fumarole
4 Expedite
4 Elemental Uprising
1 Canopy Vista
1 Prairie Stream
1 Cinder Glade
2 Anticipate
4 Taigam's Scheming
4 Rattleclaw Mystic
2 Dig Through Time
3 Frontier Bivouac
4 Jeskai Ascendancy
4 Treasure Cruise
3 Tormenting Voice
1 Mystic Monastery
2 Dispel
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Flooded Strand
1 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Island
1 Forest
Sideboard
3 Radiant Flames
3 Fiery Impulse
2 Roast
2 Monastery Mentor
2 Dispel
3 Negate
No.216644
Anyone else keeping up on this bullshit modern pro tour?
6 fucking Eldrazi decks in top 8
I've said it for weeks that banning Twin would kill modern, and it has. The format is nothing but non-interactive shit. Eldrazi wins entirely too fast. When you can cast an amazing 4-drop, that's out of bolt range, on turn 2 without much effort it gets pretty oppressive. The deck has been winning on turn 3 consistently, it's fucking ridiculous.
I will say I was wrong about what would dominate the format. I believed it would have been Tron that would have become 25% or more of the meta, but I was dead wrong. Tron and not even Twin in my playtesting can stand up to the Eldrazi deck. The only deck that can put up a decent enough start to beat it SOME of the time is Affinity, which has a 40-60 matchup against Eldrazi so it still loses most of the time. You cannot sideboard against Eldrazi, either. What do you play? It's not like playing against Affinity where you can just bring in Stony Silence or Ancient Grudge or Nature's Claim and be alright. There are no hate cards that beat Eldrazi. Damnation? Good luck casting it before you're just dead, and even if you do get to cast it, their creatures are so cheap they just dump the rest of their hand the next turn. It's basically Affinity but the creatures are twice the size or bigger and have crazy effects. You can't run 4 Ghost Quarter or you fuck up your own mana base and even then, they run 8 broken lands so it's not that great.
At best this is a huge design oversight for Wizards, and at worst it's a giant cash grab to sell Oath of the Gatewatch packs. Either way it's terrible design and truly shows the incompetence of That guy from Roseanne, so much so that people are calling for his resignation as head designer.
No.216676
>>210118
>What I'm basically saying is, someone shouldn't get something for free, while others work for it.
>Other people should not have nice things I don't
No.216795
>>216644
Haha, wow.
Had to look it up to believe you, only to see the top deck have 3 non-creature spells, and they were all dismember.
Good job Wizards.
No.216800
No.216801
>>216644
>people are calling for MaRo's resignation.
Waiter! I'm going to demand sauce on this, good sir.
No.216916
>>216644
Remember, Twin was banned in the interest of competitive diversity. Because it prevented worse blue decks from being better. Somehow.
I'm glad nobody in my area has been investing in the archetype so my Modern experience isn't completely fucked up yet.
No.216920
Every time I see shit like this I'm more happy I stopped playing competitive years ago.
No.216949
>>216916
The meta with Twin was very diverse. I played in a GP 2 months before the ban and I played against a ton of different decks. Banning Twin was definitely a mistake. On the local level, my meta is about half eldrazi right now, and I can't beat them. I play Burn, Jund, and BG Infect for reference.
No.217004
A red haired woman named "Sara Mox" is the new Judge Community Manager.
Anyone have any information on this?
No.217029
>>217004
>Mox
Oh come the fuck on
No.217040
>>217029
>MFW until your post I thought it was an ugly chick with a fake name.
>MFW I realize this is a dude
>MFW my threads have red pilled me more then anyone else here…
No.217048
File: 1454984565722.png (1.86 MB, 1244x756, 311:189, Fox realizes he took some ….PNG)
>>216949
I know the feeling. I bought into BG Elves a while ago, and as much as I hated Twin picking me apart with the 1/4 beatdowns, the deck had a lot of interaction against Elves which demanded good piloting from both players. And yet in spite of that, Elves could still just sodomize the Twin player unless they had bolts or Anger of the Gods.
The last event I went to was mostly Affinity, Rock, and Little Kid Abzan. Almost no interaction to be found outside of the best spot removal in the format. Half the time I was able to get Shaman of the Pack to hit for stupid amounts (high score of 17) and win because I hit something good off of Collected Company. The other half the time I had to mulligan to five and eat shit from Cranial Plating.
I'm looking forward to building UW Sun Titan this week. Not because it's good, mind you, but because it'll at least allow me to have some chance of playing a game which lasts more than four turns and making decisions in that game.
No.217193
>>217068
Ok I'm going to watch this, but I want to know why
No.217651
>>206960
Phalanx Leader is black?
I thought it was really shitty lighting (helped by never seeing the card outside of Android Forge)
No.217838
So, a source contacted me that they discontinued Clash Packs as well as Event decks. The reason for this is murky, but they are considered 'failed products', despite Event decks selling consistently well.
There was no official announcement of this, and when I didn't believe him, he sent me a screen cap buried deep in MaRo's twitter.
I still have yet to hear a reason of why a successful selling product was discontinued, but I think we all have the same speculative conclusion.
I'll post more if I find it out.
No.217875
>>217651
Everyone and their mother is black on Theros. Because Greeks are black. Obviously.
No.217989
>>217875
I'd still tap Omenspeaker.
No.218487
>>206707
doesn't look like a nigger to me
No.219068
Up coming, some possible speculation about Eternal Masters
No.219097
No.219110
untap.in
i moved there from dickatrice
No.219111
No.219236
No.219281
>>219097
>>219068
https://mobile.twitter.com/Vendorleak
"You have allies, even in their closed circles…"
I never did get an email from that anon, but I believed him.
In the first Magic: the Cuckening, an anon posted saying that he was within the inner circles, some info about everyone including SCG's being in cohotes, and trust fund babies.
Which tied into the SJW theme of the original.
I responded, posting my emails, and went on w/ my life. Sadly, as far as I know, there is no email responding to me.
It does make me wonder if twitter.com/Vendorleak
is him. In the last few days, this individual has talked much about vendors, but hasn't posted any proof of this.
Some of his comments included
>SCG's is largely innocent, and while there is some collusion between the two, not as much as other vendors. they also smoke copious amounts of weed.
>The average vendor at a large event has roughly 30-60k in cash, not including product on him, because they feel security isn't needed.
>Some vendors have resorted to opening about Magic Cards as a way to funnel that cash into paying off old drug debts. Chapmin is one individual this sounds like it could be.
>A booth at GP Vegas costs 20k. However, none of it's taxable, and most vendors outright lie to WotC about there earnings.
>Cut throat behavior among vendors is extremely common. It's often the case that these people will go to strip clubs, get drunk, and make bad deals with each other, attempting to dupe the other one.
I'm not sure, honestly how I feel about him. He could be controlled opposition, due to a number of players looking suspiciously at the release of Eternal Masters.
I find it suspicious that he was extremely quick to say SCG's has no ties to this incident.
Anyway, in the 24 hours since this has Started, WotC has done a bunch of damage control.
It would seem WotC is starting to break at the seams. We shall wait for an official comment from Maro, besides the one pic related. I imagine it's hell of a day at WotC PR and Customer Service.
>The two official responses from WotC
>post by Vendorleak
>a posted, then deleted posted from Vendorleak, with names on it. Looking into it now.
>Maro being jewish.
No.219327
>>219281
I'm not sure I understand what is going on here, can you write it out like I'm retarded what is going on here and what it means?
No.219328
>>219327
>over the last year a number of cards have been bought out by SCG's and large vendors
>someone goes on Twitter and leaks a list of rares/mythics, along with some dirty laundry, on Twitter.
>Player base was already getting suspicious, this only confirms it.
>WotC in full damage control mode.
No.219357
>>219327
WotC (or some people at WotC) give spoilers to vendors months in advance, said vendors (and likely whoever provides the leaks) make big $$$ thanks to that. WotC denies everything, but goes into full damage control mode and "investigates" this thing that is totally not happening. This is the same WotC that is on record
>>205428
giving spoilers 5 months ahead to pros not so long ago.
No.219358
>>219357
>>219328
Hm, interesting. Maybe the damage control will spread to MaRos podcast but so far I haven't heard a peep about it from the man himself.
No.219368
>>219358
I don't think he ever comments on issues like this, other than something like "leaks are bad".
No.219370
>>219281
>I find it suspicious that he was extremely quick to say SCG's has no ties to this incident.
To be fair SCG may be not involved in THIS leak, or they're just getting their info from someone else.
No.219407
>>219370
>>219281
He didn't say they didn't have the leak, just that they didn't buy it from the primary source. They could've easily bought it second hand. His identity will be public when the emails go live anyway.
No.219496
>>219407
Imagine if SCG's ddn't buy directly from WotC…
No.219529
Are there archives of these posts that I can go back and read?
No.219543
>>219529
Yes my good sir
Here is Magic the Cuckening 1, in all it's glory.
https://8archive.moe/tg/thread/144757/
I know a Magic: the Cuckening 2 exists as well, however it's down atm.
Ironically M:tC 3 has links to both, but sadly, I'm not sure if there is an archive, and it appears to be down atm.
(8archive).
There was also a short lived thread made during the days of the /intl/ raid, but that one was largely aborted.
This is a special thread, I made in light of the Eldrazi leaks. I was initially working on a thread about the color pie, and it's simplification over the years, along w/ other simplification on fluff, but alas, we got this instead.
No.219548
>>219543
Thanks, my friends like to suck Maro's dick, so rambling off information like this is a great way to mine salt.
No.219590
>>219548
I could honestly write a whole fucking Thread on MaRo. He has more mtg fuckery then every pro player combined, and that wouldn't even be getting into his personal life.
No.219593
No.219595
>>219590
Please get into his personal life as well.
No.219718
>>219590
The worst thing about him is that he used to produce quality sets. Urza, Odyssey, Ravnica… today he thinks they are too complex and badly designed and he's making shit like BFZ. Don't even get me started on his color philosophy and power level bullshit.
No.219719
>>219097
>>219281
So what happened here? The account doesn't exist anymore.
No.219730
>>219543
>I was initially working on a thread about the color pie, and it's simplification over the years
that would be interesting thing to read
No.219748
>>219719
Guy who leaked to the guy running the twitter account was running a smear campaign on his competition with fake screenshots and everything. Looks like there isn't a god book circulating but some crucial information about eternal masters was in the hands of some vendors prior to it being public knowledge.
No.219769
>>219748
So… the twitter guy had some bad info, but there was a leak, just not the leak he was alleging? What about the whole thing where vendors stopped / started buying specific cards before official spoilers?
No.219780
>>219769
So what you are saying is, there was a leak.
No.219785
>>219780
>>219769
There was/is a leak, but not to the scope that the twitter was lead to believe. Some vendors knew that Eternal Masters would exist, that there woudn't be reprints from the reserve list, and a few of the key reprints. There's a rumour going around that this information was gained by either a WotC employee leaking logs from a private chat in which they were talking about this stuff or that the program in which the chat took place on was hacked. That's just a rumour though.
No.219906
>>219543
>Ironically M:tC 3 has links to both, but sadly, I'm not sure if there is an archive, and it appears to be down atm.
>(8archive).
Ignoring your shitty formatting, how new are you? 8archive hasn't worked since October or November, even if you could connect to it.
No.219988
>>219906
Nigger, the last time I checked my own archives, was back in October when I started M:tC 3. I don't have time to keep up w/ what's still up and what isn't.
>>219730
Thanks! I was really interesting in designing it.
Did you know, red was the color of infighting, black was suppose to be completely weak against itself, and blue had burn?
No.220001
>>219988
Man I'd love to see the Ravnica guilds that come out of that design…
No.220014
>>219988
At least red still has threaten effects and black still has fear clauses on quite a few of their removal spells. Blue losing burn was inevitable after Maro neutered the game with NWO.
No.220029
>>219988
The "nonblack creature" thing was pretty stupid to be honest.
>>220001
The closest you'll get is probably Invasion, it was the multicolor block of old (or old-ish, there were multicolor cards and cycles before) color philosophy. Razorfin Hunter is 2 mana (UR) because both U and R ping.
No.220036
>>220029
I loved Invasion. Has some of my favourite cards in it. Powerstone Minefield and the Mutation cards are awesome, especially back then when creatures didn't have a lot of toughness and 2 damage was a lot.
No.220135
>>220036
Its one of the all time best blocks.
>>220014
Hero's Downfall makes anything else w/ 'fear destruction null and void.
Red didn't get Threaten effects (with one unusual exception in Legends) until this century. Threaten effects were originally part of blue's color pie.
No.220152
No.220205
>>220152
That's a Damned if you do effect. That is a red mechanic, but largely restricted to that block.
No.220210
>>219730
Going to second this. I always loved reading about the color pie theory and how their tactics/identity/mechanics clashed or complimented.
Shame the archive is dead. Would love to read the other M:tC posts
>>220205
Here's another "browbeat" one along with breaking point.
No.220217
>>220210
Don't forget Book Burning, a rare case of red mill.
No.220284
>>220217
Molten Influence (one of the last red counterspells) and Barbarian Bully were also fairly popular, at least on the local level.
No.220287
>>220284
And now all we have is Tribute.
No.220330
>>220287
If I ever build another damned deck, it will include Tribute.
No.220488
good news!
I found M:tC: Cheats and Sharks. on the Wayback Machine!
There appears to sadly be no images, but for those of you who wish too read some, it's here.
This one also includes an article about MaRo, for that kind anon that wanted more.
http://web-beta.archive.org/web/20150820075537/http://8ch.net:80/tg/catalog.html
This page has the opening paragraph to the original Magic: the cuckening (which didn't even have that title). Which I later reposted.
If anyone finds anymore, plz halp.
No.220492
No.222679
Soooo… who is to blame for Shadows over Innistrad leaks?
No.222681
>>222679
Even if WotC found out, I doubt they'd make the information public, unless they were trying to strike fear in the hearts of other potential leakers.
No.223038
>>210102
>Now WotC has officially endorsed proxies twice, in it's history. The first time was 'blank' cards. These were cards that came in tournament decks,
>The second time was in Innistrad, with 'flip checklists'.
No retard, checklist cards are not proxies. They do not feature rules text and can't be used as a replacement for the real card, either under the rules or in practice.
The entire concept of the gold-bordered "tournament decks" were official proxies, never mind the blank cards. Which, incidentally, is why they stopped printing them: because they didn't want to print official proxies.
That is the only time they have, and the only other endorsements proxies have got from them are articles like >>210109
No.223057
>>223038
Checklist cards proxies in the sense they are different cards when you shuffle them into your deck.
So yes, they are proxies.
Also, I hate to sound autistic, but card names count as rule text as well.
They honestly stopped them because sales started to drop. I can still buy gold bordered decks from distributors if needed, but what's the point? They'd just sit on my shelf unless I pulled them out to play them.
Finally, there is articles like that, which are official endorsements for proxies.
No.223139
haven't played magic in a long time, what are the most popular formats?
Standard? Modern?
No.223143
>>223139
Modern and EDH
EDH because casuals eat that up, but the format is so fucking polarizing borked right now.
Modern is also borked with the last set, to the point where an all-creature deck was 6 of the top 8 decks.
No.223177
>>223143
I was thinking into doing a bit of Modern but most of my cards are from portal and 5th edition, am I allowed to use these cards or do I have to go get later reprinted versions of cards?
No.223187
>>223177
If they were reprinted you can use them. Anything printed (or reprinted) from 8th edition onwards.
But uh, just watch for the power creep.
No.223220
File: 1457022241951.jpg (129.92 KB, 1381x623, 1381:623, White Knights vs Women in ….jpg)
>>223139
>>223177
Use an online resource like mtgtop8 or MTGGoldfish to get an idea of what a playable deck looks like. Don't worry about building the best deck in the room, since it'll just get banned - pick a tier 2 deck you like playing and become good at it, and you'll enjoy the format much more.
Also, should I make a new thread about the feminist/tumblr bullshit WotC has been doing lately?
With the SCG articles, Alesha, Narset, etc. This one hasn't hit bump limit yet, so I'm not sure if a new thread is warranted or if I should just post here.
No.223236
>>223220
>new thread regarding WotC cultmarx?
Aye, you should, anon. I think being able to read it all in one place will have a greater effect. Also, this thread isn't really about that, so yeah.
No.223250
>>223236
Okay. Give me an hour or two.
No.223258
>>222679
WotC themselves.
No temporary fame is worth the time and money that breaking an NDA will cost you (spoilers: corporate has more of each). There have been so many major leaks in the last few months that I refuse to believe at least one of them wasn't premeditated.
No.223295
>>223220
make the god damn color wheel article
No.223403
>>223295
That wasn't me who volunteered to do that, actually. I've only been playing since Theros so I wasn't around to see the colour pie shift very much.
New thread:
>>223401