/tg/ - Traditional Games

Do you prefer mechanically interesting, or flavorful interesting?

>>223889

Both sound good but if I had to choose one or the other I'd go mechanically interesting.

>>223890

>>223894

fucking flood detection sunuvabitch double-posting

>>223881

>interesting, fun, powerful, newbie class?

ORACLE TIME NIGGA

OP, the oracle is a top tier class and also fucking amazing in terms of fluff. they are basically divine sorcerers.

here are the rules

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle

here is the guide

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WdtrZCESRmVfljXY196wMrMLTnS8Uzk4DEk3oQdVZok/edit

they are fucking awesome. i recomend taking the dual curse oracle and so you can get those amazing reroll abilities. You basically become a oracle of fate and can control luck.

>>223911

heres the sweet hotness you get for being a dual cursed oracle. its hilariously awesome:

Misfortune (Ex): At 1st level, as an immediate action, you can force a creature within 30 feet to reroll any one d20 roll that it has just made before the results of the roll are revealed. The creature must take the result of the reroll, even if it’s worse than the original roll. Once a creature has suffered from your misfortune, it cannot be the target of this revelation again for 1 day.

Fortune (Ex): At 5th level, as an immediate action, you can reroll any one d20 roll that you have just made before the results of the roll are revealed. You must take the result of the reroll, even if it’s worse than the original roll. You can use this ability once per day at 5th level, and one additional time per day for every six oracle levels beyond 5th.

>>223911

>>223912

If your GM allows 3rd party/DSP stuff, Path of War classes are a fucking blast too.

Not OP..but I was wondering if someone could tell me if playing a Rogue is viable..or should I just go Swashbuckler?

>>223922

Unchained Rogue helped a lot. Only go the core Rogue if you're a massive masochist.

Unchained Rogue can get dex to damage and hit while two-handing an elven curve blade or whatever its name was.

>>223926

So…in other words, I'm screwed if I'm playing regular Rogue…crap.

>>223927

Unchained Rogue is basically Rogue with some nice extra things. A few free skill unlocks, weapon finess and dex-to-damage in melee, ability to sneak attack targets with concealment and debuffing targets hit by SA on top of what regular rogue does.

>>223920

I remember my GM actually OKing some DSP stuff. That Rogue/Soulknife multiclass..

>>223881

Rise of The Runelords eh? have fun in that abandoned mansion later on, try setting it on fire, I dare you

>>224153

You're not entirely correct. You have 3 options that can possibly be combined.

1) if you're dual cursed, get the Misfortune revelation and pick the Cause Fear spell. When it comes to combat, cast Cause Fear on the biggest threat around and use Misfortune to force a reroll of its save if it rolles 13+ Odds are it'll either be dead or the only creature left alive by the time it wears off. Then spend the rest of your immediate actions forcing rerolls on attack rolls from the remaining enemies when they come up 13+.

2) get a combat-useful, spammable revalation as your first one. I was in a group with a bomber alchemist and an archery ranger where I played an Outer Rifts Oracle a while back. Spamming Unearthly Terrain to block enemy approach let us go through several encounters completely unharmed at low levels.

3) get the Fate's Favored trait and the Divine Favor spell. Make Strength and Con your second and third priority stats (or even Str > Cha > Con) and get a two-handed weapon. Cast Divine Favor when combat starts and proceed to bash faces in.

OK..question, can any non-caster be viable in Pathfinder? Or do I have to just play pseudo-casters or half-casters class?

>>224449

Define 'viable'

In most cases martial classes are able to contribute if built decently well and some of the ones that I've heard most cries of OP! about from GMs out and about are non-casters (specifically, Gunslinger and Zen Archer Monk), and while I disagree with their cries it does go to show that they can definitely contribute. But if you're doing a martial on a team with a That Guy wizard who is all about blowing his biggest GGWP spell at the start of the encounter for 3 encounters then run out of spells and demand that everyone sleep so he can solo the next 3 encounters and then force a sleep again and otherwise trying to hog the spotlight, yeah you're not gonna get much done besides CDGs.

Thinking about making a character with a stand from jojo, should I just use the stand generator made by reddit? Also how should I use the stand "grades" ingane?

>>224449

Drop this bullshit with "viable," this isn't MtG competitive. I play a 13th level fighter and I'm still relevant even with 13th level wizards raping shit constantly. Why? Because the one time I wasn't with them, 2 characters died because, guess what? Their SoDs couldn't hit EVERY SINGLE ONE of the 8 minotaurs they went up against and one of them got brutal charged to death. These were regular minotaurs too.

So the 13th level wizard and 13th level mystic theurge in my group are happy now because I am there to take hits for them.

Casters are OP, yes, but I am sick of this "lol fighters cannot do anythign and are literally irrelevant by level 8" crap. I shot 3 flying wizards out of the sky with my shock longbow then cleaved another on the ground in half with a greatsword, don't give me that shit. If there's anything wrong with fighters it's their low will save.

>>224525

SoD?

>>224534

Save or Die, I'm assuming.

Go for a 100% charisma Oracle

Take the Noble Scion: War feat to base initiative off charisma

Take Lunar or Lore (though preferablly Lunar cause Lore is crap for 1-20) as your oracle mystery and select the ability that makes your reflex and AC based on charisma.

There were a few other bits I'm forgetting to make it really absurd.

>>224449

>>224480

>>224525

Non-casters are definitely viable. They won't be the most powerful member of the party, but they are useful and do contribute.

Many of the best spells, and certainly the most spell-slot-efficient spells, are buff spells. These are a lot better when cast on someone who is good at fighting to begin with. Haste, for example, is probably the best level 3 spell wizards/sorcerers have when it's time to kill things, but it's only good when there are some big burly friends around to cast it on.

Non-casters also have a much longer "adventuring day." With cure wands everywhere, they just top off their hp after a fight, and they're just as ready for the next one as they were for the last. True, this is mostly useless - if one member of the party wants to keep going but everyone else is out of spells and wants a nap, guess what's going to happen. But occasionally there will be situations where the party has to push forward anyway because the situation is urgent. At those times, they will be glad to have someone who doesn't burn through very limited resources to operate. No, this does not happen often enough for the non-caster's endurance to equal the caster's power and versatility, but it does happen.

A lot of people will say that tanking is useless because if the monsters are played well, they'll just ignore fighter-types and go right for the casters. There's something to this, but casters have a lot of spells to make themselves difficult to reach or target, and a good portion of fights will usually be happening in tight confines with a lot of narrow corridors and choke points around.

>>224555

Non-casters are viable if you know your system mastery.

By contrast you can't permanantly make a divine caster unplayable (though you can easily make one worse) without a deliberate attempt (bad casting status, a mistake even a total novice won't make.) as you can just select different spells tomorrow.

While we're talking PF optimization

1: Thoughts on Unchained Eldritch Scoundrel Rogue? Seems straight inferior to a super basic Rogue 4/Wizard 3/Arcane Trickster bar Rogue Talents (and even the unchained ones aren't that great) and Finesse Training (good will, 7d6 and 7th level spells vs. bad will, 4d6 and 6th level spells at level 16), though more playable 1-20. Missing anything?

2: What good Enchantment spells are there to use with Shadow Enchantment?

OP roll a cleric

ok that Oracle class looks good, absolutely. I was assuming it'd be weak like Favored Soul but it's not