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File: 99f669dc8241401⋯.jpg (54.38 KB, 900x1277, 900:1277, diversity dungeon.jpg)

No.318220

At first I didn't initially notice any crossover between the 'social justice' community and the D&D/CoC/Pathfinder community, but it's been growing increasingly move obvious that my first impression was a little off.

While browsing the Youtubes, I've noticed that more than a handful of the video makers talk about things like cultural appropriation, toxic masculinity, etc. I've come to realize that not even board games and pen & papers are safe from this annoying crap.

I've heard things in the past about Whitewolf incorporating 'triggers' into their World of Darkness game, and there's probably a whole host of other things that I don't even know about. It's more than a little concerning since I've seen how bad it got with comic books and video games.

This is less about politics and more about me being tired of these kinds of people ruining things I enjoy.

Has /tg/ had any unpleasant encounters with this element of the gaming community?

No.318221

Not personally. Had to unfollow some groups when it became clear that they were clickbait and virtue signaling.

Fortunately, the perpetually offended can't unprint old rpgs.

No.318222

You must be either new or botched your Perception rolls several times in a row. A few highlights:

- Curse of Strahd, the 5th edition D&D supplement about not-Dracula being filled to the brim with brown people. Because people don't know what Dracula did with the kebab or want to erase it.

- Mage: The Ascension 20th Anniversary edition being all about safe spaces and not wanting to offend anyone, yet the tome (and it's nearly 700 pages long!) opens with a bit of fiction involving incesteous pedophilia.

- Many of the more recent World of Darkness products (the second editions of Mage and Promethean, as well as Beast) shoehorning in shit like "all homosexuals are inherently magical and the tradidions of magic that are more than thousands of years old area really open and accepting", just weird stuff like "Prometheans want to figure out what it means to be human, so many of them identify as invented genders instead". Beast… well, Beasts employ progressive logic to justify that they are horrible people who torture and kill other people "to teach them a lesson" with a degree of pretentiousness that even the Vampires cannot stand. Oh, and all the other splats like Beasts a lot and if you don't like Beasts you're an MRA activist and probably a GamerGater, a Nazi and a likely supporter of Israel to boot.

- Magic: The Gathering has sets that take place in worlds based on ancient Greece and Egypt. Somehow black people are way more common there than they were IRL.

- Pathfinder has an adventure where a dwarf falls off a mountainside, and when he lays broken at the base he has a vision of a lizard spirit that goes "Hey you should totally change your gender"… and he does that.

- Pathfinder again: a transgender Paladin sells his ancestral sword for a hormone potion that turns him into a woman… except for the Paladin's level the cost for this item is chump change AND a Girdle of Masculinity/Femininity does the same thing way easier, but they didn't go with this because FUCK YOU.

- Pathfinder again: Asmodeus is the god of tyranny, hierarchy and generic Lawful Evil, just like how he was in 4e and in earlier versions as a non-deity… except in Pathfinder he's also the god of misogyny. Why? Because that's the only way they can make him evil enough.

- Pathfinder again… well, at this point you might understand why it's sometimes called Pozfinder.

- Betrayal at the House on the Hill saw a new version released that lived up to the first word in the name when it was revealed that an entire clique of progressives, including the Great Armenian and Miss Five Guys themselves, contributed to it.

- We recently saw the release of #Feminism, a book consiting of a few dozen feminist micro-RPGs. I went through it for /tg/ a few months back. The issue was surprisingly not the feminism, but the fact that all but one or two of the micro-RPGs were actually RPGs. The others were merely roleplaying exercises.

- Netrunner has a card featuring an interracial gay couple and their daughter.

- Shadowrun, a game that's always been on the progressive side (the metaplot is kickstarted with "Native Americans are tired of being pushed around and fight back against whitey), has double down hard in its 5th edition.

And that's only a handfull of things; if you go looking you'll find a lot more bad shit all over the place. Things are going bad, but fortunately roleplaying games have an edge: you can play them however you want. And like >>318221 said: they can't un-print the books you already have.

No.318224

>>318222

Fuck is that a whole lot of bullshit.

>You must be either new or botched your Perception rolls several times in a row.

Got me there.

Thank god we can still play it the way we want, as you stated.

I think noticing all the cucks roaming around the D&D community kinda gave me a wake-up call since I plan on running a strictly fantasy game instead of a Call of Cthulhu game for once.

No.318235

File: 433665cd11e2b78⋯.png (202.98 KB, 1328x1784, 166:223, Deus vult vs fedoratard.png)

>>318222

>likely supporter of Israel to boot.

Was that opinion solicited?

I've seen a few related stories on /tg/ every now and then. Screen your groups, keep your old books & get pdfs of good games and you shouldn't have any trouble. If you do get trouble provoke them to the point of triggering and then post the story here for the rest of us.

No.318236

File: ebe472523367dd9⋯.png (100.34 KB, 837x741, 279:247, le_indignant_gamer_girl_fa….png)

>>318220

This has been a long time coming, but since RPGs and board games are a smaller industry and the general activity involves getting you and a few close friends, it's harder for identity politicians to force their way into your micro-community to tell you how to think and what is acceptable. They've taken over sites like RPG.net and reddit, of course, but there's not many big RPG/Board Game news sites that are eager to run daily articles about the new MtG set being misogynistic. Besides, the kind of people who would accept that every major NPC in every campaign needs to be a brown woman of color who is better than every man (because "equality") were likely already like that before the blue-hairs got to them.

The permanence of older editions helps a great deal, and many games just don't have room for far-left faggotry. Is there a place for whinging about the President in a game about Pandas eating bamboo? No. Like video games, that doesn't stop devs from running their mouth on twitter, so, y'know, do some vetting if you have to.

The other part of this is the "Streamer" culture that has been trying to turn RPGs and Board Games into the kind of normalfag hobby that video games are. There's definitely a unified agenda to make it another e-celeb vector, which inevitably leads to them virtue signalling and sticking their nose into every controversy, so they can virtue signal and tell us that "real" gamers support feminism and voted for Hillary Clinton (don't forget that #GamersForHer was a thing and it should effectively function as a blacklist).

I'd say that Geek & Sundry's success was no mistake. It relied on e-celebs from the start. It almost seems tailor made to drag in the normies by having all their favorite youtubers and let's players show up regularly, with that dumpy mangina Wil Wheaton at the helm, and Felicia Day giggling vapidly like the empty-headed puppet that she is (literally dating an elderly jew who established her entire career).. And of course, both of them are not only keen on promoting games as a tool for "diversity" and "equality" but they just can't help but virtue signal about every big headline and they are quick to tell their audiences "this is how you think. Think the way we say or your favorite e-celebs will hate you!"

No.318237

File: f1c6a2b7f4b457b⋯.jpg (64.71 KB, 706x426, 353:213, GURPS asparagus.jpg)

A shame, but luckily the perfect game was released in 2004 already.

No.318242

File: caa0dfea9dd4329⋯.png (995.71 KB, 941x762, 941:762, Wil Wheaton's Life.png)

>>318236

>Wil "Galaxy Quest would have been better if I was in it!" Wheton

Image obligatory to explain his life.

No.318243

>>318220

I don't let my players get political in-game. I don't give a shit outside, but if you're in my pseudo-medieval world, you're going to fucking act like it.

>>318242

> H A M M E R E D

Wil Wheaton ever recover?

No.318246

File: a52229947fce501⋯.jpg (89.57 KB, 1280x720, 16:9, vodyani.jpg)

Isn't /tg/ in the most direct sense the most immune to these kinds of things? People can only play videogames that are actually made and movies/cartoons that are actually produced, so they have to endure whatever political or social leanings the creators may have. But this is not at all the case for roleplaying games of any kind: who can actually force you to follow a certain rule or lore about the world if the GM doesn't command it? If there are things you don't agree with in a system, one can simply remove them. If the entire system is 'tainted' and no decent alternatives exist, homebrew is always an option. The only limits to roleplaying are the GM's and players' imaginations, not any intentions the writers of systems may have.

No.318247

>>318246

I guess it poisons the well for people who don't have friends that are into /tg/ and have to play with strangers.

No.318249

>>318247

Aren't there enough of us to dump all our salt, piss, and vinegar into the well?

We could always crank up the autism and force out normalfags and sjws.

No.318250

File: 0086e77e50b2519⋯.gif (236.63 KB, 244x244, 1:1, not heresy.gif)

>>318246

>Isn't /tg/ in the most direct sense the most immune to these kinds of things?

It really is and for 3 reasons.

1. The only political opinions that matter at the table are those of the people at the table. They can't police the imaginations of 5 guys in a room.

2. Your table can only have like 7 people TOPS. That ain't "inclusive". It's extremely exclusive. The only people at your table are the VIPs that you invited. This ain't like elementary school where you'd get in trouble at recess because you wouldn't let some kid play with you.

3. Most of the really interesting things happening in game development are not coming from big, established publishers. They come from folks who write shit on their own time and self-publistoh or poach talent from those big companies and do their own thing. They do it because that's what they want to do, not because Hasbro or whoever is getting shamed on Twitter by snowflakes that the Monopoly Guy isn't trans.

No.318257

Is my campaign diverse enough? It had a black NPC once, and players were shooting some gypsies, and there is an oppressed national minority (German in late XIX-century France) among the PCs.

No.318258

>>318257

Was the black NPC gay?

No.318259

>>318258

>>318257

I'd say there should be at least one tranny too.

No.318260

>>318246

The biggest effect they can have on our hobbies is going forward, and given the dev cycles of most games, they'd have to be especially aggressive, but even then, they'd be stuck targeting only the big guys, like Hasbro and Paizo.. both of whom are pozzed inside and out anyways, so.. that's a lost cause.

Any moves they take to capture or corrupt /tg/ companies only leads people like us (of which there are a lot more than they think there are) to avoid them entirely.

No.318269

>>318220

The practice of playing traditional games is protected from SJW shit, but the industry creating and distributing those games isn't.

No.318271

>>318269

Bingo. Everything on your shelf is fine and will always be that way. If you ever want anything new, you need to tread carefully.

No.318272

File: 944e7c8c346d01e⋯.jpg (63.02 KB, 848x900, 212:225, ibp3dxZy2Vys4F.jpg)

>>318222

New? Sort of. Shit load of books. Don't get to play often. Our DM is about to run Curse of Strahd. Know about the darkies. More concerned with them making him a bisexual slut. Guess Tytanna wasn't cutting it for him.

WoD has always been liberal smugness. They also had a line in one book that said "If your bothered by trannies, but not monsters what does that say about you" yeah, very mature White Wolf.

Didn't know they made Asmodeus the God of misogyny. Torn between rolling my eyes and wanting to worship.

Don't forget the latest edition of Chill where there is literally only one straight white guy, and an atheist was praised for using secular means to fight demons. Every pregen backstory was about being gay, nonconforming, or living with evil Republicans, and oh yeah, "something something ghosts and monsters."

Rpgs are pozzed in general. Stick with older editions.

No.318274

File: 74ec629ad82ecdf⋯.png (61.12 KB, 776x776, 1:1, SealOfKek.png)

>>318222

Trips of truth

No.318276

the problem comes about when normalfags with some interest in roleplaying go to dens of poz like rpg dot net, or worse yet, go to youtube. if you can find grognards who've been in the hobby for a while, it's not a problem, or if you train someone up from zero knowledge, that's fine too. but it's pretty easy for someone to get infected.

No.318283

File: bf2d949f43f91ad⋯.jpg (91.98 KB, 1022x467, 1022:467, Untitled.jpg)

>>318276

There was a dude on Reddit who was into the BDSM community talking about how social activists tried to move in on their community. Would start talking about rape culture and safe spaces to people who enjoyed rough sex.

These type like moving into subcultures, moving into positions of influence, and then dictate "what its all about".

No.318284

>>318272

>"If your bothered by trannies, but not monsters what does that say about you"

"That I like cool things."

No.318292

>>318246

>The only limits to roleplaying are the GM's and players' imaginations, not any intentions the writers of systems may have.

So much this. There's nothing stopping players running Eclipse Phase where the Jovians are reasonable people just trying to keep humanity alive. Or running a hunter game focused on finding and killing Beasts. Or having your Pozfinder group set up an inquisition analogue to remove all the degeneracy in the setting. They can only ruin your games if you let them.

No.318295

>>318292

The important thing is to not give pozzed companies any money.

No.318296

>>318295

At least Paizo has the decency to put all their material online for free.

But yes. Do not buy intellectually compromised materials.

No.318299

>>318284

Monsters are interesting and full of mystery and narrative possibilities. They lend themselves to engaging and fascinating stories.

Trannies are only interesting if you're a narcissist hipster who thinks constantly whinging about oppression is a good time. It also requires that you acknowledge and validate all of their bullshit post-modernist ideology, like the "gender spectrum" or that toxic masculinity is a thing and we need to all drink the feminist kool-aid so the world can be equal through arbitrary quotas.

No.318302

>>318299

I'll amend my statement, dubsman.

"Monsters are cool, mental illness is not."

No.318309

File: 7dd6bdc19624ae8⋯.jpg (42.69 KB, 564x482, 282:241, thumbs_up.jpg)

>>318302

Sums it up quite eloquently.

No.318313

>>318309

Thank you, I thought it might.

>>318237

Insert image mocking GURPSers here.

No.318314

>>318313

They like GURPS. That is enough ridicule on its own.

No.318316

File: 9d18a8c5fd5fc2e⋯.jpg (19.5 KB, 329x357, 47:51, feelsgood.jpg)

>Everyone pisses and moans about social justice in gaming.

>GURPS remains pretty SJW free. The rules are too autistic for their freeform shit

No.318319

File: d1aaaf3804fc71f⋯.jpg (223.96 KB, 780x1704, 65:142, 5 Glamour armor in a nuts….jpg)

File: 2d7c2193528db21⋯.jpg (585.15 KB, 2480x1748, 620:437, 2d7c2193528db21043503668ba….jpg)

File: feb3689a2010d7f⋯.jpg (209.76 KB, 800x1300, 8:13, 1300148605723.jpg)

File: 6ac799535c744d6⋯.png (24.28 KB, 375x480, 25:32, 1398496480868.png)

File: 07715dc9b034c62⋯.jpg (42.83 KB, 316x500, 79:125, 1441099076424.jpg)

>>318246

>Isn't /tg/ in the most direct sense the most immune to these kinds of things?

>who can actually force you to follow a certain rule or lore about the world if the GM doesn't command it? If there are things you don't agree with in a system, one can simply remove them.

>>318250

>1. The only political opinions that matter at the table are those of the people at the table. They can't police the imaginations of 5 guys in a room.

Hell, I'm pretty sure that's why leftist and progressivist elements have been a part of this hobby from the beginning, same as the far-right and some conservatives; It's a groups' Game of Pretend, and they will Pretend however the hell they want.

Hell, which edition of Dungeons and Dragons did the Girdle of Femininity/Masculinity first appear in?

Apparently in the first Dungeon Masters Guide in 1979.

No.318331

File: f7fe6e2368a7aad⋯.png (Spoiler Image, 885.27 KB, 727x1100, 727:1100, ClipboardImage.png)

>>318319

The gender changing belt is a callback to the original D&D where the Girdle of Masculinity and Femininity was a potential cursed item you could get. It's even in the Baldur's Gate games.

The difference that needs to be recognized, especially since some people have gotten so frazzled by the whole thing that they flip their shit about anything that seems remotely kool-aid-y, is context. Here, follow along

>Bad Example: Tranny characters/NPCs who monologue about how they decided to "live as a woman" even though magic and shit exists, and it's fucking weird to just blurt out that you're a tranny at random strangers.

>Benign Example: Cursed items that change a character's gender, because it's fucking magic

>Questionable, but not worth freaking out over example: Worldbuilding that mentions, in passing, that some kingdoms have people that change gender freely, because it's hyper magical and they use magic for everything. This is a red flag if the writing only mentions magic in regards to idpol topics, like 'making women equal to men physically, because magic' or simply not applying the same logic regarding magic's effect on culture and social order with any other kind of magic.

>Magical Realm Example: Cursed items, potions, wizards, and other things that randomly turn characters into lusty bimbos who have a constant need for cock. Make sure your GM isn't masturbating under the table.

No.318337

File: 16d2b00c9096db0⋯.gif (589.37 KB, 281x158, 281:158, 14513434334134.gif)

>>318331

>Benign Example: Cursed items that change a character's gender, because it's fucking magic

That's all I need for my magical realm. The rest is just accessories.

No.318339

>>318222

>Playing a Setite in a campaign of VtM: Revised Edition in the Year of Our Lord 2017

>Have built up a cult with my character as head prophet

>Have the women whore themselves to make money for The Greater Good

>They're also my herd

>All the players and ST are 100% cool with this

Being an adult with mature friends is nice.

As the old saying goes, though, he who controls the present controls the past, and he who controls the past controls the future. Watch for SJWs (and companies fallen to control by SJWs) trying to limit or control access to old books, game materials, and reprints.

No.318351

>>318339

Then we pirate and share them anyway.

No.318379

>>318236

>Felicia Day giggling vapidly like the empty-headed puppet that she is

I tend to disagree. I see Felicia Day as both extremely shrewd, and extremely callous. She saw the loneliness and hidden desire endemic among males in the video game community, and she carefully positioned herself as the ideal unattainable female to take full advantage, at an opportune time. Built a career on catering to a previously ignored subculture, in fact. That takes intelligence, of a sort.

No.318382

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

>me a minority

>I've been interested in D&D & Warhammer 40k since I was a preteen

>couldn't play then because too poor & no one else wanted too

>now as an adult I can afford all this shit

>SJWs appear

>now I don't feel comfortable going to a store and actually buying shit

No.318383

>>318382

[email protected]!N& is caring.

No.318393

File: 6a19259ddd3d1bf⋯.png (196.76 KB, 500x378, 250:189, 1400772769794.png)

>>318383

I know. But sometimes you just gotta, you know?

No.318401

File: 4b74a4380209325⋯.jpg (152.64 KB, 1024x1024, 1:1, 1449533065395.jpg)

>>318220

I've never been able to wrap my head around the whole "role-playing being pozzed" thing. Isn't the whole point of role-playing coming up with your own characters and adventures? I understand that these are "communities" who are so deep inside the echo chamber that a fart would last a fortnight, but how does that effect us? I don't care about half the lore in the books, I just use the systems and the settings. Only the unimaginative/boring/lazy use the characters and stories that the book in question provides.

This all being said, I play with people I have known for years and uses RPGs that have been out for decades

No.318402

>>318383

You wouldn't pirate a mini

No.318405

>>318401

Coming up with your own character isn't the problem. The problem is they push an idea that gaming is an escapist hobby for the mentally ill, fill it with social rejects, and then shit on the people who were here first for not wanting to sit through an inclusivity seminar crudely painted as a game.

And each sale and patreon donation toward this shit encourages them.

No.318411

File: ec9feb1264b2eeb⋯.jpg (21.31 KB, 567x316, 567:316, ec9feb1264b2eeb7b330971ad4….jpg)

>>318405

You raise a fair point, but what I'm trying to say is that they shouldn't effect you or anyone you play with. The only people that this really hurts are the newcomers and the normies, but those two groups are effected the most in all mediums when the poz loads hit the fan. Think about music, for instance. A whole bunch of faggots like Meghan "If You Don't Want To Fuck A Cow You Are A Pig" Trainer. They show it to normies and newcomers in an attempt to indoctrinate them into their crazy cult, but doesn't stop me from enjoying the music I listen to. If they act smug or talk shit on the games I play, why should I care? I still have a like minded group that enjoys what we play regardless of hipsters throwing shade at it. Like >>318250 says, you can't police RPGs. They aren't​ solid media forms that have specific messages or convey specific emotions. Everything in Tabletop RPGs are up to the interpretation of those playing them.

No.318413

File: f783d124f383a8f⋯.jpg (45.61 KB, 480x600, 4:5, 480px-GoldenRule.jpg)

File: 1640db4096fec01⋯.jpg (45.67 KB, 600x600, 1:1, 1422095453335.jpg)

File: 7dffaa5d1cc8d57⋯.jpg (360.18 KB, 800x800, 1:1, 1422727718932.jpg)

File: 3c8707fc9eaf41d⋯.jpg (236.12 KB, 766x1000, 383:500, 1423346165408.jpg)

File: 1f491e8fa93a8e3⋯.jpg (278.66 KB, 1155x1000, 231:200, 1439791993975.jpg)

>>318331

>The gender changing belt is a callback to the original D&D where the Girdle of Masculinity and Femininity was a potential cursed item you could get.

My point is we've had this kind of freaky shit since the very beginning, because we're all usually some variety of weirdo congregating with other weirdos.

>>318337

>That's all I need for my magical realm. The rest is just accessories.

Muh Anon!

>>318401

>This all being said, I play with people I have known for years and uses RPGs that have been out for decades

>>318411

>I still have a like minded group that enjoys what we play regardless of hipsters throwing shade at it.

Indeed.

Hell, I was brought into the hobby by a gender-flipping community, and they certainly had their neckbeard-cred.

>>318402

>You wouldn't pirate a mini

BUT WOULD YOU MINI A PIRATE?!

No.318415

>>318402

Not yet because the quality's too low and the cost is too high. But when that's over it's mini time!

No.318417

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

No.318425

File: ec5247824dc7e99⋯.jpg (335.07 KB, 800x600, 4:3, 1274304284266.jpg)

File: 3ee2fa1b076e9c2⋯.jpg (148.5 KB, 504x576, 7:8, 1314288938343.jpg)

>>318401

>I've never been able to wrap my head around the whole "role-playing being pozzed" thing. Isn't the whole point of role-playing coming up with your own characters and adventures? I understand that these are "communities" who are so deep inside the echo chamber that a fart would last a fortnight, but how does that effect us? I don't care about half the lore in the books, I just use the systems and the settings.

Ah but you see, there's the one thing all socialists want from you and hobby, your shit, your brands, your very imagination if they could just steal that shit straight from your brain like the filthy hive minded illithids they fucking are. I mean role playing at it's best is a polymath entertainment that requires high end literacy, imagination and math to make it all work out. And for those you crave adventure, and k-typed worlds of risk and reward that give us that sweet dopamine high of charging our sweet synapses with every session we play.

But since most of the pozzies are rich crispy kreme mutherfuckering inheritors to what ever scraps are left over from their hoard laden beholders, Dragons, and dis embodied space brains calling the shots, they'll never truly reason with their sense of entitlement to other peoples shit that very question. They just want a brand name like a totem or some useless idol made of fool's gold or brass, because it's somebody else's derpest of lore.

>>318379

>I tend to disagree. I see Felicia Day as both extremely shrewd, and extremely callous.

Correct, and there where plenty of anons back in the day, including myself who could smell the shillery with her and The Guild back in the day with it's forced geek culture humor.

>>318237

Which probably also explains why more open ended systems like Traveller for instance are also not picked up by SJW types, a severe lack of hand holding and everything being spelled out to the player like a bell end gun running gangbanger in deepest dirtiest Chirac.

No.318429

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

>>318236

>The other part of this is the "Streamer" culture that has been trying to turn RPGs and Board Games into the kind of normalfag hobby that video games are.

I saw a video of the DM from Critical Role (Matt Mercer) talking about stupid shit like 'toxic masculinity' once before. I assume groups like CR are what you're referring too?

Vid related also talks about stupid sociology and woman in games too. I don't think that he realizes that woman in general like to do their nails and buy shoes, not hang out with a bunch of neckbeards and role dice. My mother was the former kind, but she was also a strange girl who wore a cat-bone necklace.

No.318439

File: 880154109338586⋯.jpg (126.64 KB, 638x426, 319:213, aj-styles-2.jpg)

>>318220

THE ROLEPLAYING COMMUNITY

No.318440

>>318331

>Questionable, but not worth freaking out over example: Worldbuilding that mentions, in passing, that some kingdoms have people that change gender freely, because it's hyper magical and they use magic for everything. This is a red flag if the writing only mentions magic in regards to idpol topics, like 'making women equal to men physically, because magic' or simply not applying the same logic regarding magic's effect on culture and social order with any other kind of magic.

With the normalisation of trans type shit, I wonder how that'll effect things like Slaanesh and other demonic entities where fucking around with their sex to the point of not even having one is what makes them so strange.

Slaanesh confirmed for Chaos God of Trannies.

No.318441

>>318425

Could you see the market shifting to a split, two tier, set up? With the casual, pozzed, candy crush style games at one end; and math-heavy, crunchy, grognard bait that makes dwarf fortress look simple and low detail. Could be interesting to see the sort of games we could get out of that.

No.318442

File: e0ef24004a9b674⋯.jpg (31.92 KB, 500x500, 1:1, I identify as Slaanesh.jpg)

>>318440

>Slaanesh confirmed for Chaos God of Trannies.

>Chaos God

>God

Did you just assume Slaaneshes gender? Check your materium privilege shitlord!

No.318445

File: bfd07d9d120d4f7⋯.jpg (Spoiler Image, 39.72 KB, 400x400, 1:1, [email protected])

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>>318440

>I wonder how that'll effect things like Slaanesh and other demonic entities where fucking around with their sex to the point of not even having one is what makes them so strange.

>>318442

>Did you just assume Slaaneshes gender? Check your materium privilege shitlord!

Please, we all know the superior genitalia is the TENTACLE VAGINA!

No.318447

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

No.318464

File: 12c61413c90cfc8⋯.jpg (111.74 KB, 960x1600, 3:5, e8011a3fbb344fdd24001418dd….jpg)

>>318411

>It doesn't affect me

>It can't affect me

>It's not my problem

This is only right if you expect to live in total isolation for the rest of your life. We've seen what happened to academia and television and comics and even video games because this shit wasn't stopped in its tracks.

This isn't just a matter of a minor disagreement. No, these people and their ideology are turbocancer. Where they are allowed power and control, bad things follow. Not just an injection of politics, but a total degradation and corruption of the medium they invade. Dumbing it down to a level that's unrecognizable and then using it as a political soapbox and nothing less.

No.318480

>>318429

>not hang out with a bunch of neckbeards and role dice

Ha, do not underestimate their craving for attention.

No.318485

>>318441

I generally see that as wishful thinking (though it'd be nice to see the OSR "movement" develop into a scenario like that). History has shown that the kool-aid drinkers won't allow games they don't agree with to succeed or often just exist. Don't forget that Evil Hat and others like them throw their weight around at distributors to get games they don't like pushed to the wayside.

The only real answer that I can think of is self-publishing, which is a bit of a hurdle for industrious grognards to clear since they won't get the same publicity and idiot-bucks as the developers who toe the party line and get shilled by gatekeepers like Wil Wheaton. There's a bunch of great games out there on DTRPG and so on, but I'll be damned if they get any good publicity. The worst thing is that even the spergiest, grognardy players can still be gullible or misinformed; neckbeards desperate for acceptance are the most vulnerable to social justice strong-arming.

No.318497

>all these people saying "it doesn't matter what the SJWs do because we have our old books"

But then who the fuck are you going to play with? By controlling the output of the industry and the media coverage of that output, they get first pass at shaping who gets attracted to the hobby to begin with, and by extension what gets played. Even if you have an established group, people move away, suffer a change of circumstances, or simply lose interest. Fat lot of good your copy of GURPS/AD&D/BECMI/RoS does you when the only people you can find who even know what an RPG is introduce themselves with a list of their triggers and are only willing to play the latest Pozfinder modules and Cards Against FUCKING Humanity.

You can't just hide from the SJW, you have to actively resist it. This is probably the only hobby where "winning hearts and minds" can actually work, so go do that. Convert those you can and abandon those you cannot. Then maybe, just maybe, we can shake their hold on the community town-by-town.

No.318498

>>318497

>Cards Against FUCKING Humanity

I know nothing about that game except the name. What's wrong with it?

No.318499

>>318498

It's not a game. (Well, it's technically Apples to Apples with an especially foulmouthed deck and the "whoever's funniest wins" part made explicit, but Apples to Apples is hardly a game either.) CaH is basically paying for a license to be an asshole in a manner acceptable to Tumblrkin, but not in any other fashion. They have censored cards that SJW megaphones complained about to this effect. (It also snuffs out the will to play an RPG or board game among a group of normalfags faster than Magic ever did.)

No.318500

>>318499

And yes, I know that CAH has a print-and-play PDF for free. But it's not like normalfags are willing to actually get the cardstock and do that.

No.318501

>>318498

The creator started to sell two small new expansion packs around election times: 15 about Hillary Clinton and 15 about Donald Trump. It was tallied which pack sold the most, and based on this a donation would be made to the campaign of either candidate. If Clinton's packs sold more all the money would go to Clinton's campaign, and if Trump's packs sold more all the money would go to Clinton's campaign as well. Paired with the sentiment against non-Americans, the fact that it was all so extremely smarmy and complains about this could be sent to [email protected] made it all clear that the company was going to be on the Right Side of History. Or just read about it here:

No.318502

You know, I just had an idea. You know all that "independent reviews and information clearinghouses" stuff the niGGers sperged about that amounted to sweet fuck all? Shit like DevDex and DeepFreeze? Has anyone ever tried that for /tg/?

No.318504

File: 2df8e12dadd56e0⋯.jpg (42.46 KB, 720x618, 120:103, 2b22c6e723bdf21f23f324af72….jpg)

>>318501

The guys who literally sold bullshit in a box and kept the sheckles and were all about free speach but still censor themselves

>right side of history

Something ain't quite right there schlomo if you know what I mean.

No.318505

>>318502

>niGGers

>did sweet fuckall

Aside from seemingly marking yourself out as yet another assmad /pol/ack, why are you asking after such a thing if they are so very useless (according to you)?

No.318513

>>318498

Same rules as Apples to Apples, but with dirty words on the cards. It lets people who don't like games with fun rules pretend to be naughty.

The company seems to be virtue signalers who pretend saying "pig fucker" occasionally makes you not a bore to be around.

No.318516

>>318331

What's so shitty about the sjw infection is things like the Girlde which were just silly fun back in the day become a symbols of things they were never intended to be because the zerigeist has changed. Turning your party member back into a dude because he wants his dick back after wearing a cursed item without identifying it first is a fun adventure with absolutely nothing to do with transfaggotry but because we're being conditioned to it it takes on a more sinister undertone.

the snowflakes don't even have to directly be influencing things to hurt fun, they hurt fun by proximity.

>>318401

In a way you and everyone else is right, they can't walk into our homes and police our game sessions, what they can do is drive us out of the wider community and keep us from having influence in it if we so desire. It's not as much about stopping us from being able to play as stopping us from engaging in the hobby at a level beyond just playing games as well as creating an environment which may drive away newcomers who don't lean toward insanity because they see the big names and big publishers are all clinically evil. Not to mention the abstract threat they represent to anyone who would desire to try and publish their own content for fun or profit by infiltrating organizations and acting as gatekeepers over what is and is not allowed to receive large exposure - precisely as we saw happen in the SF&F literature industry.

The concern is that we'll be constantly alienated from any public part of the hobby and not allowed to operate in it as freely as they do. There isn't any reason why we should have to be second class citizens because we hold opinions every sane and well born individual held just thirty years ago.

I shouldn't have to say to myself "well I always have my table, they can't get me there". I have every right to operate as unhindered as they do and if they want to try and oppress any person or idea they find objectionable we have the right and duty to dismantle them nut from bolt.

We are not second class citizens, we will not be treated as such. The best defense is a good offense, so let's get offensive.

No.318520

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

Diversity Dungeons actually doesn't seem that bad.

No.318522

File: 38c105720d3418c⋯.jpg (27.14 KB, 480x362, 240:181, a0a6d7ce9b56c10f135a09a308….jpg)

>>318220

I haven't noticed this in the roleplaying community. Sure a few SJW comes in once in an orange moon, but they usually get btfo or ignored.

There's more to the roleplaying community than dungeon and dragons. A lot more. It's a never ending rabbit hole. You saying the whole Roleplaying community is being invaded by SJW is about as bad as me saying "we" in a post.

No.318538

I think this thread fucked up somehow, let's see if this fix it.

No.318540

File: 552994bbd874669⋯.jpg (91.17 KB, 432x640, 27:40, X1amFDzl.jpg)

>>318522

When yhis bullshit tumblr post came out, every developer, publisher and community manager came out condemning male toxicity in gaming. There is a problem of tightly knit echo chambers controlling communities by doung shit like purging half your message board for not being on board with feminism.

No.318595

>>318516

>Turning your party member back into a dude because he wants his dick back after wearing a cursed item without identifying it first is a fun adventure with absolutely nothing to do with transfaggotry

Uh, isn't that basically "transfaggotry" in a nutshell?

You are a dude in the body of a woman, and you want the body of a dude?

No.318606

>>318595

It's all about context. In this case it goes like this.

>Group of adventurers find this belt.

>It's shiny and magical.

>Some guy puts it on wondering what effect it has.

>Poof. He turns into a chick.

>Everyone gets a laugh and the guy plays with the tits a bit like any guy who suddenly became a chick would do first.

>Oh wait, -4 str.

>Belt's fun guys, but I wanna be a dude again.

>Shit. Why isn't this belt coming off? I don't wanna be stuck being a chick.

>And so the merry band of adventurers go on a side quest to take the belt.

>Buddies of the guy tease him for a while afterwards.

That is different from transfaggotry since it's done for humor instead of someone's mental illness.

No.318607

>>318606

*take off the belt.

No.318608

>>318606

>>318595

Also, a tranny is not "a dude in the body of a woman" or vice versa. That's not something that can happen in the real world, the brain doesn't develop separately from the body and we don't have sex-swapping magic items. On the other hand, examples of it happening in fantasy via magic/divine intervention are all over the place and very old (see Tiresias for an early example). It's not inherently about weird 21st century fads.

No.318609

>>318606

Still a dude in the body of a chick wanting the body of a dude…

>>318608

Is having actually been a dude make it any more valid?

Hell, what if the curse didn't actually change the target's physical gender, but just everyone's memories of what their gender WAS?

So you have a woman who now thinks she was always a dude before putting the belt on…

Actually makes more sense considering you need the reality bending magics of WISH to have even odds of reserving the effects of the Belt, because the Belt might be outright rewriting everyone's perception of reality in the first place.

No.318614

>>318236

>>318246

I'd just like to point out to the people who like to go "isn't /tg/ just in your imagination?" a few points they've overlooked.

RPG books need to be published, and if we're to support games we like it's pretty hard if the publishers are all blocked by the social justice type who vetos any books or themes they consider *gross*. I feel it is important for /tg/ to defend the right for creators to create whatever the fuck they want. If you want to create the next FATAL then shine on you crazy autistic diamond you do your thing. The perpetually offended tend to work to get people in the position of being a gatekeeper to content and given that your options are either publish with a big company or self publish that could be a very serious problem.

Those same social slactivist types will en masse force producers of content to change things to fit thier will. if they are unopposed then creators feel they have no choice but to buckle. That means new content will follow their art direction, fluff will have to fit with their limited worldview and rules will be simplified. There is leverage that producers have over content creators in the quest to get your content out there.

Of course, its never just this simple though. There are a number of issues that plague tabletop gaming and I'll fully admit that actual SJW types may be a small insideous part. Some of the other problems plaguing gaming are, off the top of my head, corporate meddling and marketing, the cliquish nature of independant game developers, no good distribution platform for game books, No good way for new gaming books to be discovered by the public at large, A waning interest in face to face gaming in the era of digital connection and social media, and increasing prices for consumers across the board for what is essentially printed pieces of paper or cardboard who's production method has generally remained unchanged since the 80's with no good justification for the increase, but the SJW is a visible target that you can point to when things go obviously wrong.

While its easy to say "well I still have 2e, they can't take that away from me" that's true they can't unprint those books but you can't stay in the past forever. Everyone wants new content for their game, they want to discover that new game that will just wow them and become a part of their life.

personally I'm fucking tired of kickstarter. It's where good game concepts go to die and any game that makes it through the process is forever changed by the process and forever has a haunted look in its eyes. Much like chemo survivors.

No.318615

>>318609

>Is having actually been a dude make it any more valid?

It makes using the expression "dude in the body of a woman" more valid, yes, because we are talking about someone who is actually a dude.

>Hell, what if the curse didn't actually change the target's physical gender, but just everyone's memories of what their gender WAS?

Then we'd be talking about a totally different item, wouldn't we? I'm not sure where you're trying to go with this.

No.318619

>>318615

>Then we'd be talking about a totally different item, wouldn't we?

Not necessarily, but you're not going to understand that yet…

>I'm not sure where you're trying to go with this.

Alright, so your character puts on a belt and POOF, they are a woman!

>Funny joke guys, how do we make me a man again?

"What do you mean 'make you a man again' anon? You've always been a Barbarian bimbo…"

>Real funny guys, but seriously, how do I get my dick back?

"…Anon, are you cursed with some sort of madness, you've never HAD a dick…"

No.318621

File: f4640bc139c9ec4⋯.jpg (60.58 KB, 552x477, 184:159, Damn_Furry_DMs.JPG)

>>318619

>Dare you enter my magical realm?

If it alters the characters mind and memories then it is a different item.

No.318633

>>318621

>If it alters the characters mind and memories then it is a different item.

Again, this is an item whose effects originally required the use of magic powerful enough to permanently rewrite reality just to have a 50% chance of REVERSING!

Perception and Memory, on the other hand, are far easier to manipulate.

No.318638

>>318614

>no good justification for the increase

Prices of paper and ink go up with inflation, wages go up as well. Or do you think writes, artists, publishers, etc. don't exist anymore?

No.318639

>>318633

The original belt changes your literal, actual, physical body. It's a biological change.

The item you are describing creates a glamour that rewrites memory and perception.

Do you understand the difference? If you do, what are you trying to say or do with this new item?

No.318642

>>318639

>The original belt changes your literal, actual, physical body.

And how do you know this?

No.318644

>>318642

Because it is described as changing the sex of the character. It is not described as creating a persistent glamour that convinces everyone that the character's sex is changed.

No.318645

File: f783d124f383a8f⋯.jpg (45.61 KB, 480x600, 4:5, 480px-GoldenRule.jpg)

>>318644

>Because it is described as changing the sex of the character.

So because the text in the Dungeon Masters Guild said that's what it does, even though your character should not have that kind of meta knowledge in the first place?

No.318647

>>318645

>character puts on a belt

>suddenly, his peenus weenus disappears, replaced by vajajay and couple of jugs

>"WELL GEE I GUESS I JUST FORGOT I ALWAYS WAS A GURL, I SUPPOSE IT'S TIME TO MENSTRUATE OR WHATEVER GURLS DO"

No.318649

The only game that I've seen shit like that in is Exalted

>one of the characters on the coverpage of the core book is a trans man, that is a woman who just sort of chose that she's a man now - I think

>haven't looked all that much into it

however, there is one aspect of the game's lore - which I have actually never really seen used by any players - which I do appreciate, despite it sounding very sjw/diversity bullshitish:

>in Exalted all human characters are canonically bisexual

>the fun fact is that this is surprisingly realistic for a game set in the pseudo time-period it is in

>IRL before the victorian era most western cultures were fairly relaxed about who you fucked around with, as long as you didn't get any embarasing illegitemate children out of it

>and the same is reflected in the game

>especially among dragonblooded nobles who, IIRC, are shown to chiefly use marriage as a political alliance tool, and then just have whatever lovers they feel the need for on the side

its a minor detail in the lore - but IMO its a nice one

>and there is of course no game mechanics or anything that punish you for not not sticking to that bit of lore, so it can be ignored if you don't feel the need for it

this is how to do that kind of bullshit correctly

No.318651

>>318417

Exactly that, anon.

Pirate shit you don't want to financially support.

No.318652

>>318649

>IRL before the victorian era most western cultures were fairly relaxed about who you fucked around with, as long as you didn't get any embarasing illegitemate children out of it

That's just blatantly false.

No.318653

>>318647

>suddenly, his peenus weenus disappears, replaced by vajajay and couple of jugs

If he doesn't have a penis now, what proof does he have that he ever had one?

>>"WELL GEE I GUESS I JUST FORGOT I ALWAYS WAS A GURL, I SUPPOSE IT'S TIME TO MENSTRUATE OR WHATEVER GURLS DO"

I hope this was sarcasm, because if so, CONGRATULATIONS, you now know what gender dismorpha is like.

>>318649

>>and there is of course no game mechanics or anything that punish you for not not sticking to that bit of lore, so it can be ignored if you don't feel the need for it

>this is how to do that kind of bullshit correctly

Exactly.

No.318654

>>318649

>IRL before the victorian era most western cultures were fairly relaxed about who you fucked around with

Really? Gays in medieval christian countries? Even in ancient Greece gaying was only okay if you were on top (especially if the bottom was underage boy). Then there is Japan, where you will be fucked in your ass by your superior to establish his superiority, and Islamic countries with their usual Islamic hypocrisy of "Allah hates fags, but if we dress this beautiful boy as girl then we can diddle his, I mean, her ass and none will be wiser, and pass me some booze, it's night anyway so Allah won't see me".

>>318653

>guy loses penis through the girdle of trannies

>WELP I HAVE NO PROOF I EVER HAD IT

>guy gets his hand lopped off by an orc

>I GUESS I WAS BORN WITH ONE HAND

>guy finds a sword

>I OBVIOUSLY CRAWLED OUT OF MY MOM'S CUNT WITH THIS SWORD IN MY HAND

No.318655

>>318653

It's called body dysphoria and that is not how it works at all

No.318656

>>318655

>It's called body dysphoria and that is not how it works at all

Apologies.

Still, you can see what I'm trying to work with here.

No.318657

>>318656

Yeah, you are trying to describe some kind of goldfish philosopher that couldn't believe it had penis five minutes ago because it's not here now.

No.318659

File: c32916bfbf4a458⋯.jpg (264.71 KB, 963x830, 963:830, 1414627674104.jpg)

>>318657

>philosopher that couldn't believe it had penis five minutes ago because it's not here now.

Hey man, we are talking magic here, sometimes you can't explain tits.

I mean, if all you knew were shadows on a cave wall and someone starts fucking with the light source, you're entire reality has been upended.

The scenario I'm trying to lay out is That DM has convinced the group to play along with his making your character the opposite sex, hopefully leading Anon to the epiphany that sometimes Life is That DM.

No.318661

>>318659

Can someone else lay out the problems with whatever exactly it is this guy is trying to say? I can't even properly wrap my head around his points.

No.318663

>>318661

Not him, but what I'm getting at is that:

It's magic. Meaning, unless you have a meta understanding of the item then you can't prove that you were ever male to begin with.

No.318664

>>318663

>It's magic. Meaning, unless you have a meta understanding of the item then you can't prove that you were ever male to begin with.

Exactly, thus a potential existential crisis for the character.

No.318668

>>318664

>a potential existential crisis for the character.

Right up until the party caster hits level three or they can scrounge up ~700gp for a scroll of remove curse.

No.318696

>>318661

You can't reason with the mentally ill, that's kind of why they're called that.

>>318663

>Meaning, unless you have a meta understanding of the item then you can't prove that you were ever male to begin with.

How about gee I don't know, BASIC LOGIC?

Be a man -> put item on -> turn into a girl -> item is cursed.

>But if it only affect you, so you don't remember putting the item on.

>But if it somehow affected the entire reality and reshape everyone you ever knew, you don't know.

It's still obvious that in a world of magic the first thing that would come to mind would be to check for a curse.

So all you have to do is magical examination -> remove curse.

No.318703

>>318696

The entire argument is stupid, because the Cursed TG belt doesn't change your clothing. All this gibbering about how you couldn't possibly know involves either making everyone else in the world have different memories regarding one person and every single thing they've ever done, or it means rewriting every single last one of the wearer's memories.

If Grakthung the Manly Barbarian puts on the belt and, like this fucking retard is insisting, suddenly had no way to prove he was ever male, all he has to do is look over at the Bill the Fighter, adjust his minimal armor which is not tailored for a female body, and say

>Hey, remember last night when we went out behind the tavern to take a piss in the alley?

No.318704

>>318703

Also, altering all of reality is such an insanely powerful feat of magic that not even a Wish Spell can properly encompass (Look it up. The Wish spell has limits) and likewise, rewriting someone's entire memories to make them conveniently forget what gender they were up to that moment is an act of psionic fuckery that cannot be accomplished with a cursed item.

In short, this argument is stupid and the faggot who keeps blathering on about how we just can't know deserves to be punch in the dick.

No.318707

File: ac22a5cb37572f7⋯.jpg (28.73 KB, 480x740, 24:37, fcbf7487b536466633b54e1868….jpg)

>>318645

>applying sceptical theory to a RPG manual

Muh meta knowledge

No.318708

>>318704

Correction-punched in the dick HARD

No.318727

>>318704

>some fuck, somewhere, created magical items that could not only change a person's sex, but also either rewrite reality so that they were always that sex or change the memory of every person they ever met

>they choose to use this power to fuck with adventurers

Wizards, eh?

No.318755

>>318619

That's not how the belt works. You are talking about a different item that you made up. If you want to run a game with that item, that is your prerogative, but it's completely irrelevant to the question of whether transgender ideology was present in RPGs early on, which is where this conversation started.

>>318649

>in Exalted all human characters are canonically bisexual

I don't mind fantasy settings being lax about sexuality, but I do mind mandatory bisexuality. That's just retarded. I'm straight because women get my dick hard and men don't, not because of social norms (which are more pro-homosexuality than they've ever been in most western countries).

>IRL before the victorian era most western cultures were fairly relaxed about who you fucked around with, as long as you didn't get any embarasing illegitemate children out of it

This is completely false. Pederasty was tolerated in some cultures as an aristocratic vice, but it never really reached the lower classes (except sometimes as victims) and wasn't treated as equivalent to the relationship between a man and a woman the way homosexual relationships commonly are today.

No.318776

File: 21cf4568b684fc3⋯.png (9.65 KB, 200x233, 200:233, Wizards, don't let them ge….png)

>>318727

>Wizards using reality bending arcane power to fuck with random people.

This actually makes perfect sense to me. Think about a high level wizard, what problems does he have? He can summon food from the ether. You want a house? He can magic you a house with invisible servants inside it. You need clothes? He can make you an outfit that make you better at whatever you like.

Eventually the only things that would hold a wizards attention would be his studies and whatever projects he decides to get involved in. Eventually though he's going to get bored of study or doing wizard shit on some other plane of existence (do something often enough and it will get boring, even altering reality with pure force of intellect) and what's he going to do when he gets depressingly bored with the only things that matter to him for the third time this week?

He could go into politics or business, but that gets boring too, especially when you consider he's packing an 18+ INT (before enchantments) and all he runs into are stupid people who won't cooperate with his obviously superior plan. Eventually he starts to realise that there's only one option left to keep him from dying of boredom. He starts fucking with people.

Maybe he starts breeding owlbears, because fucking owlbears man, he gets a giggle every time he hears about some adventurer who got mauled to death by the most retarded animal he could think of. Maybe he builds elaborate mazes, fills them with monsters, and plants some coin and minor artefacts to draw in suicidal loonies to get fucked by the monsters and traps while he sits in his pocket plane, eats some meatbread, watches the scrying screen, and laughs every time they trip a trap or get eaten by that daemon he kidnapped and hid behind the false door. Or maybe he spends a few years researching how to completely rewrite one specific section of reality and history, and then applies that nearly omnipotent level of power to making a belt that gives barbarians tits and a cunt because every time they come to him to get the curse removed he's having side splitting belly laughs inside his head.

Wizards are basically the best parts of fa/tg/uys and /b/tards rolled into one man, and then given reality bending power. Thank the gods that the majority of them restrict themselves to low level pranking. Just imagine what a /b/tard or fa/tg/uy could do in RL if he was a level 20 wizard. That thought should scare you.

No.318778

>>318776

I don't disagree with you, though I understand why you were using my post as a springboard to make the point.

No.318779

>>318755

Is it ever stated in Exalted that everyone is bisexual? I don't recall seeing anything of the sort while flipping through 3E.

No.318780

>>318779

I've never played Exalted and only briefly looked at the material, so I don't know. I was taking that anon's word for it.

No.318781

>>318776

> Just imagine what a /b/tard or fa/tg/uy could do in RL if he was a level 20 wizard.

Mostly reincarnate dead celebrities into the bodies of animals and randomly polymorph them into funny things, honestly.

No.318784

>>318781

Then some forever beta gets picked on at school and decides to create a hell on earth to inflict pain on his bullies. Or an autistic wizard decides to spend a few years 'patching' human nature (don't worry, it's mostly a stability thing, you won't even notice it, honest). Or someone decides to hijack a political conference because he enjoys the idea of forcing Merkal to strip, on live TV, and sway her butt around in the face of the nearest black delegate while cooing and talking about how horny she is (brainbleach is now advide

No.318785

>>318784

I mean, you do you, but I'd be riding Michael Jackson (Zebra Edition) around Afghanistan.

No.318792

>>318784

Wisely did Ibn Schacabao say, that happy is the tomb where no wizard hath lain, and happy the town at night whose wizards are all ashes.

No.318817

>>318703

>making everyone else in the world have different memories regarding one person and every single thing they've ever done, or it means rewriting every single last one of the wearer's memories.

>>Hey, remember last night when we went out behind the tavern to take a piss in the alley?

"Yes, you uncultured barbarian woman…"

>>318776

>Or maybe he spends a few years researching how to completely rewrite one specific section of reality and history, and then applies that nearly omnipotent level of power to making a belt that gives barbarians tits and a cunt because every time they come to him to get the curse removed he's having side splitting belly laughs inside his head.

EXACTLY!

Worst part is, he can use that nigh omnipotence to make you look like a damn loony to boot just for the extra shiggles, because if the prank is funny enough when it's blatantly obvious, it would only grow in HILARITY the more subtle you went with it.

>>318781

>> Just imagine what a /b/tard or fa/tg/uy could do in RL if he was a level 20 wizard.

>Mostly reincarnate dead celebrities into the bodies of animals and randomly polymorph them into funny things, honestly.

>>318784

>Then some forever beta gets picked on at school and decides to create a hell on earth to inflict pain on his bullies. Or an autistic wizard decides to spend a few years 'patching' human nature (don't worry, it's mostly a stability thing, you won't even notice it, honest). Or someone decides to hijack a political conference because he enjoys the idea of forcing Merkal to strip, on live TV, and sway her butt around in the face of the nearest black delegate while cooing and talking about how horny she is (brainbleach is now advide

And now you know how eldritch horrors start!

No.318823

>>318222

Hell, 7th Sea's 2nd Edition has an art of gay men kissing, the character defaults are always her…that thing disgusts me that I scrubbed it from my hard drive.

No.318832

>>318817

I don't know what else to say to you to explain what a blithering retard you are being, so I'm just going to call you a faggot.

You're a faggot.

No.318865

>>318222

>all homosexuals are inherently magical

That's because Crowley.

No.318866

>>318606

>>Buddies of the guy tease him for a while afterwards.

And take turns running a train on his new pussy.

No.318869

>>318866

It's almost like one of my japanese anime! >>318867

No.318873

>>318866

So here's a moral quandary…is it gay if you know that's just a dude but cursed to be a gal..and he still has the mind of a guy? I'm curious to be honest.

No.318874

>>318776

Anon, RPGs arn't life. they have stated and set absolutes. No post modern garbage need apply. Good and evil are detectable, so is sex and gender. These things are hard game mechanics, not choices and feelings. The belt changes the users sex because those are the rules. If you want the belt to do something else then that's a different belt.this isn't your home brew shit, this is fucking D&D. You want to add some home brew, fine, go to town. But, the cursed girdle of masculinity/femininity is an item, and it has rules. You can change them freely but don't expect me to care, and don't try to push your shitty home brew ideology on people who know D&D.

No.318875

>>318873

The question is only if it's gay for the dude who was chick'd and is now getting dick'd. Also if it's gay to keep fucking him after he gets turned back.

No.318877

>>318873

No. You are fucking a body that is 100% biological female. Also if the person you are fucking was a mindless husk, that wouldn't make it asxeual.

No.318879

>>318877

OK, good to know, double dubs anon…because my boner says yes, my brain says no.

No.318883

>>318875

I thought it was gay for the doer and the doee…like you know she's really a dude who got curse to become a nubile and busty chick and her mind is still the mind of a guy?

No.318885

>>318883

You're not fucking their mind, though.

No.318889

File: 1b6d740824f110b⋯.gif (1.19 MB, 480x287, 480:287, wrong.gif)

>>318885

>you're not fucking their mind, though

Only for plebian non-psions.

No.318915

File: 0741cbeeaaadb37⋯.png (189.95 KB, 483x368, 21:16, 45e916ef1b6924588df3fb3a9d….png)

This has been the general trend of most entertainment mediums for over a decade. With the proliferation of college education through the social sciences, post-modern critiques through 'deconstruction' have permeated through most facets of consumer culture. While my entry into the hobby was later in life, I have noticed that unlike video-games or movies, RPGs are highly dependent on user-produced content to function. GMs often have to modify, remove, or even create a whole host of new rules, story templates, and characters to tailor the system to their specific needs. Contrary to what SJWs think will happen, games don't change the perceptions of the players, the players change the perceptions of the game.

One of the most popular systems to run in my university's school gaming group is nWoD. Despite nWoD being pozzed to hell, the atmosphere for game themes couldn't be further from each other. One game is focused on redeeming the supernatural, and creating a secret society to rid the world of shit-lords in order to bring about a new age of progress. Another is about every day people trying struggling to find balance in killing the supernatural, and living every day life. Hell there's even another game where the group effectively embraces the most terrifying qualities of humanity, and use it to colonize spaces in supernatural territories. All in all, these groups embrace what themes and settings are appropriate for their play group, and go from there regardless of the parameters given by the game creators. As for games being ruined, this is more of a social problem than a political one. Regardless of what political affiliation they hold, anybody who values themselves at the expense of everyone else is going to be a problem that will have to be resolved. These people will find an issue to make if they feel like their desires for attention are not getting met, and if it isn't Social Justice, they will make it about something else.

The only problem that remains is where you spend your dollar. Ultimately, it is your discretion if you believe that their product is worth more than their message. I personally don't like giving my money to companies who signal things I don't like, so I stop buying their products.

TLDR: Yes games are getting pozzed to hell, but unless you have a literal, problem person, this should have little to no-effect on your gaming experience.

No.318923

>>318874

>Good and evil are detectable

And that goes to very strange places the more you hammer it out, did you know that in DnD rot, illness, and disease are tied to Evil in 3.5 onwards? So technically every person with cancer or is sick will be detected by a Paladin when using Detect Evil.

No.318924

>>318915

Better example: Eclipse Phase. In spite of its poz (and the ruleset kinda sucking), a lot of the setting is actually interesting enough for some good gaming.

No.318925

>>318923

>>318874

I think one of the DnD early editions - Metzner maybe - had "Detect Evil" as a spell which didn't detect "Evil" creatures/persons, but "intent" - a person giving off a murderous vibe in your direction, for instance, would set off your "oh shit Evil" meter, while a serial killer who just happened to love (You) would detect as an A+ citizen.

No.318926

>>318925

In 2e the Paladin handbook it gives a scale, and also explains that Detect Evil feels like pain in the back of your eyeballs.

No.318940

>>318924

EP is pozzed? I'm more familiar with the crunch and the Morphs than I am with the lore. Is there more to it than the usual "you can sleeve into male OR females bodies, ain't that some shit?"

No.318944

No.318946

File: 0f0bc710169c561⋯.jpg (14.24 KB, 291x183, 97:61, 1447367198444.jpg)

>>318944

well fuck

No.318949

>>318946

We have an eclipse phase thread and go into detail about this stuff, most Anons have a bigger gripe over transhumanity in general since taken at face value the whole setting is terrifying and nobody, not even the writers themselves, can actually answer the implications of sleeving.

No.318952

File: 35aab2e875c5f59⋯.jpg (103.15 KB, 1920x1080, 16:9, 7d49676b1d5d8bc2922a35b902….jpg)

>>318924

Basically

>>318940

A particular example would be The Jovians. The background is that they were 80's Reganites and South American junta fans who didn't want to accept that anarcho-futurism was the WAY OF THE FUTURE (tm); created inefficient, yet independent territories around Jupiter and Ganymede. These territories were falling behind the 'economic marvels' and 'technological output' of the times until The Fall. Now I'm not too familiar with the setting, but tldr is that some extra-dimensional alien attack happened and destroyed fucking everything. The Jovians fared a lot better than most factions because of their traditionally massive, defense budgets of old, Earth governments, and the attack pretty much justified their defense of 'the old ways'. They also heavily regulate the use of A.I, bio-tech, and all sorts of other shit because they find it a violates the sacred form of man. It is really the last bastion of religion and even The Vatican relocated there after Earth got trashed.

If the writers of EP focused on churning out a good product as opposed to selling me on fagnarcho-gommunism, they could have extrapolated on how detractors of transhumanism see the horror show around them. The Jovians reject the mantras of the series "Your mind is software. Program it. Your body is a shell. Change it. Death is a disease. Cure it." because your mind, body, and death itself are integral to the human experience; the sum of their parts being more than just a series of inputs and outputs. The Jovians would see Transhumanism as not the answer, but the catalyst to human extinction; where mankind endlessly modifies itself into nothingness. The faction itself is really cool, because it maintains its sovereignty with a massive, standing military, and despite it being technologically behind, they make up for it with their numbers and social cohesion. It could have opened a whole avenue of playstyles that aren't available for normal EP. From soldiers of the Jovian Republic who have to engage a more technologically advanced force with prayer on their lips and guns at their hips to an investigative team that has to uncover an underground tech-ring that produces horrors from beyond the realm, EP could have given players a chance to observe transhumanity's ugliness as an adversary.

But no, instead we get a half assed, hamfisted boogey men who are basically a hodgepodge of South American dictatorships, 80's corporate structure, and 'MUH EBIL ISIS CATHOLICS WHO HATE BABORTIONS' who love Hitler. EVEN THEN the writers are so incompetent, they completely legitimize The Jovian experience by MAKING A HORROR SETTING and having a macrocosmic event that the bad guys come out on top over.

No.318957

File: 3273f53d2b5643c⋯.jpg (56.92 KB, 500x386, 250:193, 3273f53d2b5643cdb1fbb22dcc….jpg)

>>318220

I have a story, my roleplaying group is tight-knit so we do not encounter sjw cancer very often but this one time

>playing a homebrew mix of AD&D and 3.5

>we are a band of pirates in the mediterranean around the second punic wars (210 BC or so)

>do evil shit every session, raid merchants, capture slaves, get booty

>last session we shipwreck and end up marooned on a small island near spain

>new girl wants to join our group, we already have a girl who is pretty chill so we were like why not

>bad mistake, gender studies major, she makes an mtf dwarf rogue with xir beard dyed pink (she even chose pronouns and all)

>we are not used to this type of shit but we roll with it nevertheless

>DM places dworf in the same island we were marooned at, she has a ship of her own

>i'm the captain so I call the shots, we find the ship on the other side of the island after some exploring

>we board it, she was alone on the captains quarter sleeping, I wake her up

>"hey what are you doing get off me ship right now!" she says

>I look her dead in the eye, roll a natural 20 for intimidate, and reply "this is my ship now"

>she gets angry at me, looks at the DM and whines for the rest of the session

>she is very triggered even though I gave her a chance to join our crew

>I made her swab the poop deck while we set sail to do more pirate shit

>now she is very angry and yelling all over the place (we tend to be very quiet so this visibly bothers the whole table)

>I calmly explain that this is the way my character does things, since he is a hardened pirate and a dick to the weak.

>session ends a few hours short of what we're used to. we cant stand her shit no more

>she never comes back again

>the next session we sold her off to hannibals forces as a sex slave

I guess the only way to avoid that type of shit is to raise a group from the ground up, uncontaminated by the shit that pollutes "geek" stuff. I find it pretty depressing that I used to be bullied in school for liking this type of shit, and now suddenly its cool but we still get shit for liking our hobbies the way they were and refusing to adapt to outsiders who only want to destroy the few things we love for the sake of making them inclusive

No.318968

File: 77e429578dc1264⋯.gif (392.9 KB, 640x360, 16:9, 1466861414064.gif)

>>318957

>playing a homebrew mix of AD&D and 3.5

No.318980

File: 283d41cbb463339⋯.png (400.96 KB, 450x444, 75:74, lefties_better_run_22.png)

I've had to kick plenty of whiny idpol conservatives out of my games for random bullshit. They don't get invited back. This kind of shit is everywhere.

Homebrew setting:

>what color is the shopkeeper?

>…what…?

>my character is racist, I want to know what color he is

>everyone on this continent is vaguely brown, being any other color would have branded him as a foreigner & he wouldn't own a shop

>I dont want to play as a brown guy, my character is white

>OK then you're a foreigner, the party is going to catch hell in every single town

>DUDE NOT FAIR!! WHITES ARE JUST BETTER I want to get +1 to rolls for being white

There are also some young Trumpkiddies at my local shop. While I'm running Ankh-Morpork or Abyss or something, they usually set up a random game then spend 4 hours agreeing with each other about whatever MSM opinion they heard that day, while remembering to play the game once every hour or so. Funny thing, two of them are in high school & have to have their parents pick them up after. They pay a table fee to circlejerk & have the rest of the shop laugh at them. Says it all really…

No.318982

>>318980

This is some top tier bait. Goddamn. You really worked hard on this one, didn't you?

No.318985

File: 251370c0ed4ebde⋯.jpeg (13.13 KB, 400x400, 1:1, MJbR9VeB_400x400.jpeg)

No.318987

File: 845056c2a727045⋯.jpg (45.46 KB, 670x472, 335:236, 1448899948801.jpg)

No.318992

File: e4672dd957cacdb⋯.png (344.27 KB, 364x498, 182:249, tumblr.png)

>Little over 5 years ago

>Friend invites me to a free board game at some nicer game store in the city

>He introduces me to some of his friends he made through volunteering at PAX – They were the ones who told him about this event

>They all seem pretty nice

>Make friends with a couple of them

>One of the chicks there starts talking about Mass Effect 3 (the game had literally just come out. People weren't pissed about the ending yet)

>She asks if we play and if she can add us so we can play the online horde mode

>yeah whatever

>rest of the night is fine.

>literally can't think of anything that went wrong.

>friend arranges it so that his various PAX friends can find me on normalfagbook, because he badly wants me to be part of the Enforcer cult and I hadn't completely given up on social media at that point

Quick aside, because it's relevant to the story: PAX has paid volunteers called the Enforcers. You'd think it would be like volunteering at any other con, right? Wrong. They are insanely clique-ish. It's almost like a cult. People take weeks off from work to be part of PAX just so they can do underpaid volunteer work. Most of what they do isn't even paid because a lot of these people hit the maximum time that they allow on paper within the first couple days. Lots of off the books, unpaid time for taxed paid labor. Every Enforcer I met was really really into the identity of being an enforcer. Some of them in their 50s acting like the Enforcers were their true family. Shit's weird.

>Chick from the board game night posts SJW constantly and she is DEEP in the victim mentality.

>On multiple occasions she's posting about how, as a woman she's been bullied at game and comic stores and made to feel unwelcome because of her vagina.

>She posts shit from that whole "fake geek girl" discourse and how she's totally be grilled by fedora-tipping neckbeards who corner her in the store to prove she's a real nerd.

>I know the shops in her area. I've been to those stores. I spent an entire night sitting with her playing board games in a packed store full of men and women, and none of this shit happened.

>She's been attending PAX for years, and that place was dabbled with kool-aid stains since it's creation.

>None of the shit she's claiming happened. Ever.

No.318993

File: 53829baf9f79a1a⋯.gif (124.74 KB, 650x865, 130:173, 1403380894007.gif)

>>318992

>Fast forward to the next year

>Schedules have aligned and I can actually afford to go to PAX and take the time offer

>Friend insists I should volunteer so we can do the Enforcer thing together

>Didn't yet known how bad it was so I agreed

>Got in instantly after answering the insanely lengthy application process, which also required I get some references from other Enforcers

>Turns out there's a secret Enforcers-only forum where they all gossip and pretend to be family

>Turns out I was in a completely different department from my buddy so I barely saw him all weekend.

>Got about 200for way more than 40 hours of work. >Friend insists I volunteer again and go to the other PAXs with him >Ehhh… No. >Shit was too expensive. Too much work. Not all that fun. >Barely got to see any games or go to any events because I was too busy working. >Fast forward a little while later >One of the members of PAX's Bald and Piglike duo pisses off feminists again. >This time is was saying that women have vaginas >This lit a nuclear fire under the asses of the harpies in the Enforcers >See on normalfag book that the one liar SJW chick from a few years ago is losing her shit >She wants to shutdown PAX >She wants Bald and Piglike fired >She demands an apology and reparations for this outrage! >I'm only seeing this because I'm still in some facebook group that the Enforcerfags invited me to. >Realize I still have access to the private Enforcer forums >It's 10-times worse on the forums. >SJW Liar has a whole squad of bitches out for blood and they are going nuts >Department heads for PAX are trying to put out fires >SJW Liar is telling every single Enforcer to quit and boycott PAX >Shit eventually blows over after Piglike donates something like 10,000 dollarydoos to a tranny charity >No one really quit because they value being part of the Enforce Cult more than their politics, and most of the guys wouldn't give up the special perks of being an Enforcer over some minor controversy that they didn't even agree with. >Some time passes >SJW Liar quit being an Enforcer.. but only because she got a new job! >..As PR for some company that goes to PAX every year >And of course it's PR, because she has a fucking Communications degree and her only technical skills involve using Twitter and Facebook Now, I tell that story to make this point: The SJW Liar bitch, whom I casually observed over the course of several years, badly wanted to be a bigshot in the vidya industry. She wasn't to be regarded as some kind of expert victim, a survivor of dozens of brutal misogynerd attacks. Some of the other Enforcers I got to know went out and ended up working in the industry. I think one guy even ended up at Microsoft getting paid 6 figures to do some top secret stuff. Those guys engaged in their hobbies on a deep level. They didn't just enjoy them or stay aware of the happenings, they went in elbow-deep and got their hands dirty. They wanted to be a part of it all, and they were. This girl who wanted to burn everything to the ground and shut down an event that hosts tens of thousands of people multiple times a year, did not do this. She did not talk about her weekly game sessions online. She didn't talk about what video games she was playing. All she cared about was looking for cracks that she could dig her fingers into. She was driven by a narcissistic need to leverage a whole industry to build herself up. When all was said and done, and she couldn't get her way, she slinked off and got some shitty social media job being a professional shill. Those kinds of people are the kinds of people who talk about Safe Spaces at the table. Who invent "The X Card" to keep people from being triggered while playing D&D. They are people who insist on injecting diversity into everything and trying to make an issue out of every little thing because they are trying to build themselves up at the cost of an entire hobby and community. They would burn your entire bookshelf if it meant they could get into a position of power. They are not just a minor problem to be ignore or removed from your table. They are a thing that you need to regard as a threat to everything you hold dear, because that is what they are. No.318994 >>318993 Sounds like your experience with this cancer was far worse than anything I've observed. Luckily I've been insulated by a pretty good group. I guess the question is what can be done about it. Do you cultivate your own spaces that are independent of the mainstream, or do you push back at foreign intrusion? I prefer the former, but I think either side has its merits and pitfalls. No.318995 File: b5e820613ede6b6⋯.jpg (30.9 KB, 422x585, 422:585, b5e820613ede6b6ae8fd0b4e32….jpg) >>318992 There's the thing, None of this shit DOES routinely happen. It's either one of two things; A: Complete fabrication for the purpose of procreation sympathy/virtue signalling/agenda pushing. B: Overblowing, overanalysing, and exaggerating relatively benign interactions. Shit like someone making a facial expression that isn't 100% friendly evolving into them hating you, or someone not acknowledging you when you walk into the room being evidence of the "Boys Club" nature of Tabletop, or something equally retarded. As daft as "B" sounds, it's something i can see being part of the whole SJW problem. It happens to me constantly as part of my anxiety disorder, though I'm self aware enough to realise that it's not actually happening (Generally ;_;). I can see how someone retarded and with existing notions might use it to fuel their retarded crusade, and genuinely believe these stories they try and push, however No.318996 >>318980 >shit_that_never_happened.txt No.319005 >>318220 >incorporating 'triggers' This has been around for decades but under a different term. Simply put, books would have sections written into them explaining that RPGs have adult themes, how adult themes are to be appropriately used, how RPGs are entirely fictional and not advocating for magic and devil worship, sex, drugs and alcohol. The usual. There was even the part in all the prints of the AD&D (DM manual was it?) about pronouns, about how the male pronoun is used in the general and neutral cases as a writing convention, and how this is not meant to exclude women from the hobby. No.319023 >>318302 >mental illness >not full of possibility for emotional horror >>318621 They're gaslighting the belt-wearer to make her their slut, I think, no actual magic needed beyond the belt itself. No.319024 >>319005 That's a bit different than a trigger warning, don't you think? Saying a book uses male pronouns because that's how english works isn't the same as >TW: Rape, misogyny, problematic content, [UNSOLICITED OPINIONS ABOUT ISRAEL], etc A trigger warning is often used when some tumblrite faggot wants to warn people that something doesn't fall in line with what they believe is the ideal, kool-aid-tinted version of reality that they have arbitrarily deemed as acceptable. >>319023 >not full of possibility for emotional horror Mental illness as an element of a story is potentially interesting, but it's not "cool" in the ways that monster. No.319027 >>318992 >>318993 Just wondering, do you still go to PAX at all or have access to the enforcer forum/facegoy group? I haven't been to PAX seems the whole gamergays thing happened in 2014, but I was thinking about getting tickets for East next year or maybe unplugged since I live 20 minutes from Philly. Obviously the enforcers are still gonna be a crazy cult, but just wondering how bad the general culture there has gotten or if it is still 97% chill people. Also any details of what unplugged has planned if you have behind the scenes notes about it. I like tabletop, but not sure if it's enough to carry an entire convention for me. No.319028 File: 5b3958ee888c780⋯.jpg (17.35 KB, 520x390, 4:3, dude what.jpg) >>319024 >what is everybody is john >what is fucking about inside the mind of a loonie No.319030 >>319027 not him but, I imagine that if you're in a cult and suddenly your cult is under attack you'd probably band together, become even more exclusive, witch hunt all dissenters and generally feel vindicated by your cult leaders rhetoric and the sneering voice of the outsider that simply does not understand. thats generally how cults operate in my experience. outside pressure just turns them into zealots. No.319032 >>319027 Haven't gone to PAX since 2013 when I volunteered and I haven't checked to see if I still have access to the forums. Absolutely none of them have tried to contact me or insist that I need to come back. PAX Unplugged seems potentially interesting, but since I'm going to GenCon, I'm not about to burn the extra cash for a first-year convention run by the same kind of people who gave PAX a "diversity longue" >>319028 Don't get me wrong, mental illness and other disadvantages and weaknesses introduce all kinds of interesting possibilities. Celebrating trannies, however, is about glorifying their non-heteronormativity as somehow more important, amazing, and brave that character is for loudly announcing their "struggle" whenever possible. In cases like that, it is not a drawback of a hurdle for a character to overcome, but a whimsical quirk that makes the character more… something. Not sure what. I'm not sure SJWs, like the ones at Paizo who keep tossing in tranny characters, would be able to tell you why that makes a character more noteworthy, other than mumbling something incoherent about "muh representation" No.319035 >>319030 There's only so much influence the enforcers themselves have though. Most of the people who go to PAX have no knowledge of the inner workings of the enforcer cult. So maybe the enforcers got crazier, but the convention in general could still be fine. I've heard dumb stuff about the diversity lounge, but that was relatively small. But you could always just avoid those small dumb SJW pockets. Basically: There is a cancerous tumor. The tumor is malignant. But what stage is it in? The stage where you can still enjoy things, or the stage where you're fucked and everything is miserable? tl;dr, not asking about cults, just asking if PAX is still fun. No.319038 >>319024 >Saying a book uses male pronouns because that's how English works [Insert Obvious Joke About How This Upsets Feminazis and How the Term 'Trigger' Has Lost All Meaning At This Point.] Agreed. No.319039 >>319028 >what is Everybody is John?? Underrated and deserving of a thread of its own, with an OP delivering gold. No.319050 File: 74039d108c8abc5⋯.png (466.71 KB, 606x595, 606:595, triggered princess.png) >>319038 Been waiting for a while to use this image. No.319078 YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play. >>319050 Vid related is another good response there. No.319079 >>318873 >>318877 >So here's a moral quandary…is it gay if you know that's just a dude but cursed to be a gal..and he still has the mind of a guy? I'm curious to be honest. >No. You are fucking a body that is 100% biological female. I agree with you, but it's also very important to note that now the body is 100% female, the brain will be subject to different hormonal stimuli. They won't even think the same way. There's a reason that guys with normal/high test feel as though they're not themselves of "lost a step" if they have a hormone imbalance that reduces it. They just won't be the same person anymore; the body is 100% female due to it even changing the genetics of the person and the mind would alter under new biological input. No.319080 >>319079 That's not how it works though. No.319081 >>319080 How does it work, specifically? No.319085 >>319080 That's exactly how it works No.319098 >>318873 >>319079 If it's gay to fucking a woman's body with a "man's mind", then it's straight to fuck a man's body with a "woman's mind"… Of course, we're also talking about magic here, which circumvents a lot of the sticky, overly-politicized identity politics. Full Disclosure: It's biologically impossible to be born with the wrong brain in the wrong body. The brain and the body are the same system. Being born with a "wrong" body part is a birth defect, not some grand statement about the inherently oppressive patriarchal social norms we live under, near universally, across the globe, even in isolated areas that have never known western culture. No.319101 >>319098 >If it's gay to fuck a woman's body with a "man's mind", then it's straight to fuck a man's body with a "woman's mind"… The issue there is that, and I'm assuming we're talking about the real world here, even if you transition you're not changing your body from male to female or vice versa. You can have the outward appearance of it and take all the hormones you like, there's a reason your doctor still has to know if you were born male or female. You just can't trick reality, your body is what it is. There's a debate about "action vs intent" which you'd need to address though, which is that if you're attracted to women and fine an MtF tranny attractive, are you gay? It is a male, but all signifiers that your brain picks up on say "woman". Can you suck a dick and still be straight? You straight up sucked a dick, but if you're not attracted to men then by what measure are you a "homosexual" considering it defines orientation rather than action? The issue at hand here is that it's now both a woman's body and a woman's mind, because the mind is part of the body and won't be some magical ethereal thing that hormones and shit won't interact with and you are genetically, biologically, 100% female. The magic works in such a way that you may as well have been born a woman because you now are one. There's no way for the guy that got cursed into being a woman to retain his mind unless the magic specifically says "his mind is magically protected and treats oestrogen like it's testosterone and vice versa" or some shit, and I'm assuming it doesn't because otherwise you ruin the "I have a sudden urge to cry over nothing" humour. So basically they were a guy that got 100% turned into a woman, they'd just have the experiences and memories of who they were as a guy, but they'd look at them in a completely different light because of how their mind will have changed due to new biological circumstances. They'd almost definitely change sexual orientation, which would fuck with them immensely because sexuality does tend to be a key component of people's identity and it changing so radically beyond their control would force them to reevaluate themselves and/or live with massive cognitive dissonance. So yeah; it's not gay. They were a man, now they are a woman biologically, mentally, etc. Even if they were to still be a bit mannish due to mannerisms developed through habit, etc. it'd only be as gay as fucking a tomboy is, which is to say not gay at all. The issues arise with how the waters have been muddied by saying gender and sex are interchangeable terms when they aren't and never were. If your sexuality is "I like women" then you will be sexually attracted to the female form and typically feminine behaviours and characteristics. If you found yourself liking traps then that's why; you know better but your dick doesn't give a shit. I agree. However a big differentiator is how we treat those defects. Counselling works for some but not others, transitioning works for some but not others. If someone was born without an arm I wouldn't recommend just counselling on how to live with it, I'd probably look into prosthetic limbs.Or just smashing their head in with a rock and having a normal child because "my baby is so special I must have it suffer a life of misery for my feelings to matter" is for selfish cunts. Terminate downs babies, it's the human thing to do. No.319102 File: e45c854c786ecda⋯.jpg (62.79 KB, 322x249, 322:249, e45c854c786ecdad64d45fc9d0….jpg) >>319101 >transitioning works for some their suicide rate would like to have a word with you. >I also don't know how something with less then 1% prevalence according to science is getting the numbers its getting either but hey, im sure mutilating their genitals and not just helping them realize they gay nigger will help. Not like the Reimer twins died because someone thought socialization outweighed biology to fulfill his hard on for trannies. No.319105 >>319102 If it works for any number that isn't 0, then yeah it worked for some. I'm not saying it's the best method, nor first, just that it has helped. Much like losing weight tends to help fatties feel better about not being fat anymore. Suicide rate's helped by a whole host of other shit. Being a tranny is usually the least of a tranny's worries given comorbidity with almost every other mental disorder out there No.319114 File: 384f75e3d294cf0⋯.jpg (64.85 KB, 600x857, 600:857, ren08.jpg) >>319101 Yeah, the mind is part of it, since it depends on the completeness of the magic. This of course means it has absolutely nothing to do with IRL faggots who play dressup or mutilate themselves. It's like asking "is it bestiality if you know that's just an animal but cursed to be a gal..and it still has the mind of an animal? It has no bearing on reality. No.319119 >>318220 Well, duh. rpg.net is pozzed and converged for years. We can only hope this trash-can won't explode all over teh internet. >>318222 >- Many of the more recent World of Darkness products No surprise here. It started with "there are humans who are sheeple and everyone else who is ass-hobbled edgelord". > - Shadowrun […] has double down hard in its 5th edition. So nothing specific? Lol. No.319133 >>319101 >Terminate downs babies, it's the human thing to do Edgy, I like it No.319142 >>319133 Is it really that edgy? Letting someone be born only to live a really shitty life sounds like a cunt thing to do? Same if a kid will be born with some horrible, crippling disease that severly shortens their life and makes it suck horribly. No.319161 File: 8b141e6b77cf91b⋯.png (30.44 KB, 624x351, 16:9, _77077073_capture2.png) >>319142 Agreed, this is an entirely mainstream opinion. If your kid unexpectedly develops some horrible condition long after being born, that's something I can certainly sympathize with. If, on the other hand, prenatal tests show your kid is seriously fucked up, and you choose to bring it to term, you are an evil piece of scum. For the same reason, I have an exceedingly dim view of fertility clinics. If your genes aren't up to the task, adopt healthy kids. No.319175 File: f187615347c7984⋯.png (235.72 KB, 229x466, 229:466, ClipboardImage.png) >>319078 God, I can't stop re-watching this video. She proves his point not even a full second after he is done talking. It's amazing. >>319161 >>319142 >>319133 If your child is born with the downs then you must raise him to become Blaster. No.319179 >>319161 Well then it becomes very binary eugenics and then it never stops. I know /pol/ laughs it up but when do we stop? "Oh your kid has ADD" "Oh your kid might have slightly bad eyesight" "Propensity for Bad teeth" Probably 90% of all of us would be on the abortion table because we don't meet some perfect criteria. No.319181 File: 4e4e8f8d1b7bbe9⋯.jpg (12.33 KB, 349x347, 349:347, Jovian Republic Icon.jpg) No.319182 >>319179 ADD is more a political tool then anything, and I wouldn't compare bad eye site with potato children. No.319183 >>319179 There's a difference between a child being born with a slight defect that can be corrected, and being born with a potato brain which will cause them to forever be a burden to everyone around them. No.319185 >>319179 >Probably 90% of all of us would be on the abortion table because we don't meet some perfect criteria. >Implying this is in any way a bad thing in an aggregate sense No.319213 >>319142 Being retarded doesn't mean being a vegetable. Who's going to scrub toilets when everybody has a phd? Let's take niggers out of the equation for a minute. No.319214 >>319142 >Same if a kid will be born with some horrible, crippling disease that severly shortens their life and makes it suck horribly. You know who made this place, don't you No.319217 >>319214 Based Hotwheels has an opinion on this subject. https://www.dailystormer.com/hotwheels-why-i-support-eugenics/ No.319233 >>319213 >Who's going to scrub toilets when everyone has a phd? Same people that already scrub them; graduates. No.319234 >>319175 >It's amazing. Watch it again, after she starts her shrieking look at his face. That grin is fucking legendary. No.319253 >>319179 Forcing eugenics and things like it by law is of course a terrible idea, since there is no strict boundary and people could start fetishizing all sorts of things with little or no real impact (or worse, something that's actually bad). But informal social shaming and disapproval is fine. >>319185 Having an existential crisis over the you that is versus the you that would be with an abortion and second attempt is silly, like worrying about the you that would've been if a different sperm had made it to the egg, or another egg had been ovulated. It's barely removed from the level of silliness inherent in P-Zombies or the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum physics. >>319233 kek'd No.319266 File: 8f3aae0a567472c⋯.png (255.86 KB, 342x316, 171:158, sad cat being licked.png) >>319179 >ADD is a meme but can be controlled by meds >eyesight can be fixed by glasses >bad teeth can be fixed with toothbrushing and braces >You can't fix downs. Besides there are even worse things to be born as, I can't remember the name but there's a defect where your skin becomes like rocks, and you're in constant pain because of it. No.319277 >>319266 Is that the one that inspired a Silent Hill monster? Where the skin is hard white, and cracks everywhere that's red because it's exposed muscles? No.319285 >>319266 >You can't fix downs Retards don't need fixing, they need menial jobs that are easy to handle No.319304 >>319266 Harlequin Icthyosis Yeah if my unborn kid had a defect like that I'd abort; I wouldn't let them suffer that life. No.319305 >>319285 In an increasingly dwindling job market that will only get smaller as we continue to automate, no they absolutely don't need those menial jobs. I was only half joking when I said grads scrub toilets and it will only get worse. I legit don't understand companies like Remploy. "Massive unemployment crisis? Better make sure this retard that gets living allowance can support that with a full time job." Get fucked, give it to able bodied people that need the work and won't get anywhere near the financial support were they to be unemployed. "Oh but we want to show that they can do it too." I couldn't give less of a fuck, if they can do it too then they're not getting additional financial support. If people need jobs then I'm sorry, but the tards can subsist on tard-stipend while able people work. It's fucking backwards otherwise. No.319321 >>319181 I disagree. The entire moral principle of the Jovian Republic is that it rejects the notion that the human condition is something to be cured. If anything they're more like pro-lifers. I don't know, I've been reading more of the core rulebook, and I'm inclined to side with the Jovians, even if their measures are are a tad on the extreme end of things. No.319332 File: a6122e5c379e6cf⋯.png (178.3 KB, 474x343, 474:343, koma.png) Jeeze, this thread has gone to some weird places. No.319336 >>319285 You know at least a quarter of those guys who want to give those type of jobs to retards are the type to have their mouths water at free menial labor, and rightfully see retards as easy to manipulate. Even if their menial labor isn't particularly good. No.319348 >>319336 They can learn to realize when they're being taken advantage of, even if it takes them a while. They're not dogs. No.319357 >>318220 Funny thing is, this book was actually written by a guy who took a LOT of shit from the progressives. That 'book' is surprisingly used to deliberately sabotage the train of thought of SJW who would pick it up. No.319360 You don't need to enforce it, just make it easy to do and people will abort on their own. Iceland has reached a 100% abortion rate for babbies filtered to have Down Syndrome, so they basically have barely any of them now. You don't need to have evil doctors forcefully yanking potatoes out of vaginas, just ask the parents if they want a drooler and they'll make the obvious choice. But yeah, boardgames as an industry are fucked in terms of politics. Thankfully it's probably one of the few hobbies that you can basically get away with not giving a dime to any companies if you choose not to, so pick which ones haven't pissed you off yet. No.319367 >>319348 >They can learn to realize when they're being taken advantage of, even if it takes them a while. They're not dogs. By that point it's too late, since their fate is out of their hands and everyone looks down on them like dogs regardless, so even if they tell anyone nobody will believe them or take them seriously. Their whole lives can basically be summed up as being in a cage, and knowing they can't actually do anything to escape makes them pessimistic and fatalistic. The ones who are not like that still have not figured it out or are mentally undeveloped to a point where they'd never figure it out. You're better off just terminating them while in the womb. No.319368 >>319357 Do elaborate. I'm interested. No.319371 File: 87430d0fd6e46f4⋯.jpg (341.58 KB, 1113x1600, 1113:1600, 1.jpg) >>319114 >is it bestiality if you know that's just an animal but cursed to be a gal..and it still has the mind of an animal? There is a doujin about that too. sage for offtopic No.319383 >>319368 James Desborough took some shit for not being on the 'right side of history' and, while I don't recall the whole story he's committed the crime of guilt-by-assocation by appearing on the Honey Badger Radio (female MRA, but to SJW that mean LITERAL NAZI) podcast during GamerGate. He basically pretended to ask for forgiveness for his 'sin' and wrote this book. And its a fucking joke aimed at the SJW, a very subtle jab. For one thing, these people who he got advice from? They're not real. He basically made up some vaguely-foreign-gibberish-female-name as a way to mock those non-white 'diversity officer' and whatnot. These aren't real people. As for the book itself, here you go. The book is not even remotely some /pol/ or 'alt-right' book, merely a rather average and honest look at topics such as racism and sexism and how these things could be played out in a game. The fuck you in this is that it's nothing remotely offensive. It's basically a book you'd give to SJW tabletop players as a shit-test to see if they are even vaguely redeemable down the line. It's very middle of the road, centrist or 'classically liberal' material in a book pretending to be some SJW moral treatise on tabletop. That's the joke. That's what it is. He wrapped some completely decent and honest stuff in his supposed 'apology' or 'conversion' to social justice but he's dismantling their talking points through the book or at least looking at them more nuanced than your average college-aged liberal idiot would. Its nothing but mellow, subtle 'red pilling' and fact-stating, such as: >In societies that are wealthy, safe and egalitarian gender differences in life choices can grow broader with women increasingly choosing – for example – caring professions and men increasingly choosing engineering and other, similar roles. >Men were considered the heads of their households which was a position of authority, but also responsibility. They were sometimes held responsible for the debts and even crimes of those that they had authority over, bearing responsibility for everyone. Guilt was transferable, as was debt. In fact, the book's intro states: Introduction >Much digital ink (and blood) has been spilt taking about diversity representation in tabletop gaming and in every other field of geek and nerd endeavour. Usually these conversations are extremely combative and they tend to end poorly for everyone involved. I’ve been involved in these debates and discussions myself, to my detriment. The position I hold being that free expression and the vision of the author or creator should trump any and all other concerns – including diversity, representation and so on. To my mind the answer is for people to create according to their own conscience, not to be condemned out of hand or for their motivations to be presumed and for diversity of ideas to be the benchmark. I want a world in which Varg Vikernes and David Hill can both make and sell games and I can ignore both of them. No.319384 File: a7619d3d63e461f⋯.pdf (473.96 KB, Diversity_Dungeons_Worldbu….pdf) Hell, here is the book. No.319414 File: 0727f021545beaa⋯.png (114.49 KB, 164x572, 41:143, POSFAGS1.PNG) File: 2b15d02e17065f0⋯.png (137.9 KB, 152x597, 152:597, POSFAGS2.PNG) Dungeon Magazine #103, 2003 No.319415 >>319414 >WE DEMAND TO BE ACKNOWLEDGED AT ALL TIMES REGARDLESS OF RELEVANCE OR IMPORTANCE Faggots. Not even once. D&D barely acknowledges that heterosexuality is even a thing, and yet it's an act of criminal unprogressiveness that D&D doesn't put everything on hold to give a shout out to all the fags and faggettes. No.319418 >>318540 I still remember how there was also the issue where she was kicked out for primarily stealing and shitting on people. Not to mention how the wife was the co-owner. Still with all of this considered, you had PR people try to talk about how they would never sell product to this store again for its terrible misogyny. The worst pot I saw was that one dev for Shadowrun and battletech who talked about how awful the event was and said that they would never be welcome again in tabletop gaming. He said the most cringe worthy garbage about how he has done wrong in the past and laments for it, and then also said that battletech and shadowrun were meant to convey messages about the dangers of conservative bigots. No.319429 >>319414 > If and when we receive a great submission that uses a same-sex relationship as an important part of an adventure, you'll see it here. But we're not going to do it just to do it. It's got to be a great adventure first. Good. > The guy who wrote this was a teacher Not so good. No.319432 >>318649 >one of the characters on the coverpage of the core book is a trans man, that is a woman who just sort of chose that she's a man now - I think >haven't looked all that much into it It's worse than that. The character in question "Prince" Diamond, is a woman from a society of incredibly rigid gender roles. Men do the fighting, women look after the home and that is all they are permitted to do in their nation. To the rest of us, especially in a setting where warrior women in bikini armour are totally playable, this would be taken as an oppressive, sexist society. The kind of location perfect for offering some liberation and enlightenment. Instead, they gave it an exemption. People are permitted to adopt a role belonging to the opposite sex if they live their lives as the opposite sex. If you're a guy who wants to live a peaceful life as a chef, you have to become a woman. If you're a girl and you enjoy hunting or, gods help you, you end up with a shard of exaltation, you have to become a man. Through the lens of social justice, this fucked up society is a trans-acceptance paradise, which makes it okay. We are expected to view "Prince" Diamond not as a woman who was a victim of fucked up social pressures that she had to submit to in order to live the life she wanted, but a beautiful trans-man who transitioned into the person he always was. No.319433 >>319432 Man if only the leftists who buy Onyx Path garbage weren't too stupid to see the obvious heresy against gender theory in that stupid backstory No.319436 >>318649 >>319432 >>319433 You know, funny thing is with Exalted you can actually dial down the sexual shit. Except maybe with the Realm but, bear with me for a moment: the Realm is a decadent society, a messed up empire on it's last legs ruled by a subtype of humans whose bloodlines are capable of being extremely powerful and long-lived. In other words, for DB society, it make perfect sense. On one hand, they're decadent and morally bankrupt so them doing weird sexual shit as the empire is collapsing is exactly what you see whenever an empire/society is on the brink of collapse. Secondly, given the sheer power Exaltation (even that of a 'mere' Terrrestrial) give combined with a long-ass lifespan make such society where you can have warrior women possible. Most female DB remain fertile for a long time, regularly pop out children with ease and little risk of death from childbirth and recover from said pregnancy with ease while the child is cared for by their mortal servants. Even if one was to retcon the Realm as a much less 'equal' society for their game (such as, say, no military female dragon blooded) the existence of non-combat charms basically mean that even in such a hypothetical realm you'd end up with female dragon blooded doing a lot. Even the weakest of them stand above mortals in raw power, meaning they'd easily be able to work as bureaucrat, crafter, monks and sorcerers. Personally I call bullshit on EVERYONE being bisexual in Creation and, again, that's something easily rectifiable. But then again, as mentioned, plenty of ancient culture had some weird sexual shit which is both very similar to what we see today yet contextually very different from some latte-sipping hipster who suck dicks. I'm fairly certain those societies were warriors sometimes had buttsex with each others would find today's homosexual positively fruity and pathetic. And as anon said: unlike other garbage, there is no mechanical punishment for playing someone straight in Exalted. As for the rest: A lot of the shit in the setting can be brushed under the table and you'd still be left with entire pages worth of fluff that isn't unsalvageable garbage…unlike fucking Beast. No.319437 >>319432 Between this and Blue Rose, it's kind of fucking creepy what they admit to when they start magic realming. No.319445 >>319437 It's the ideology behind it that's creepy. As far as fetishes go enforced living as the other gender and everyone being bisexual are rather low-key. No.319451 >>319432 >If you're a guy who wants to live a peaceful life as a chef, you have to become a woman Being a chef is man's work in almost every society. Being a cook/homemaker is a different story. No.319457 >>318915 >One game is focused on redeeming the supernatural, and creating a secret society to rid the world of shit-lords in order to bring about a new age of progress. BUT ANON, YOU ARE THE POZZED!!! >And then Anon was some guy getting screeched at by random losers on the internet. >>318992 >People take weeks off from work to be part of PAX just so they can do underpaid volunteer work. Most of what they do isn't even paid because a lot of these people hit the maximum time that they allow on paper within the first couple days. Lots of off the books, unpaid time for taxed paid labor. Every Enforcer I met was really really into the identity of being an enforcer. Some of them in their 50s acting like the Enforcers were their true family. Shit's weird. You've clearly never been part of a large social group that puts on events before then… For church events it's semi-understandable, as large amounts of effort can be viewed as charitable, but having grown up in rural Iowa I can tell you hundreds of people do thousands of hours of unpaid work just to put on the County Fair. >>319023 >>mental illness >>not full of possibility for emotional horror Indeed, though since we're on the subject of being "TRIGGERED," can I just say that I personally object to tagging "body dysphoria" with the stigma of mental illness? Speaking as someone whose been committed to a psych ward, it just doesn't sit well with me that the idea of someone not being comfortable in their own skin is as bad as something like THE FUCKING BEDLAM! Because yeah, of every patent in their with me, it was the little old lady who constantly broke out into a mono-tone laugh at random that scared the shit out of me the most. >>319032 >Celebrating trannies, however, is about glorifying their non-heteronormativity as somehow more important, amazing, and brave that character is for loudly announcing their "struggle" whenever possible. In cases like that, it is not a drawback of a hurdle for a character to overcome, but a whimsical quirk that makes the character more… something. Now, using gender identity and such as simply a means of garnering attention is something I can understand the hatred for, since it's one of those "recognition without merit" deals. >>319105 >Being a tranny is usually the least of a tranny's worries given comorbidity with almost every other mental disorder out there Indeed, most prominent is depression, which has become a mental health epidemic across pretty much every facet of society. >>319142 >Letting someone be born only to live a really shitty life sounds like a cunt thing to do? Tell that to the "Pro-lifers"… >>319179 >Probably 90% of all of us would be on the abortion table because we don't meet some perfect criteria. What's worse is that human fallibility might ensure we selected for the WRONG criteria, like how the Aryan "blond hair and light skinned" ideal is fucked by an increase in UV radiation exposure. >>319360 >You don't need to enforce it, just make it easy to do and people will abort on their own. Iceland has reached a 100% abortion rate for babbies filtered to have Down Syndrome, so they basically have barely any of them now. You don't need to have evil doctors forcefully yanking potatoes out of vaginas, just ask the parents if they want a drooler and they'll make the obvious choice. A good point. >>319371 >>is it bestiality if you know that's just an animal but cursed to be a gal..and it still has the mind of an animal? >There is a doujin about that too. Was she an actual cow "Cursed" into human form or just an engineered dairy humanoid? I mean, the guy DOES knock her up, but act like the kid can be sold for veal… No.319459 >>319457 >Speaking as someone whose been committed to a psych ward, This explains so much. No.319460 >>319457 >I personally object to tagging "body dysphoria" with the stigma of mental illness? >have a fucked up androgynized brain but not the "brain of the opposite" like faggots want to think >kill yourself 80% of the time even if you "transition" into a mutilated freak Oh yeah totally not a mental disorder. Hell faggots kill themselves and spread HIV at unbelievable rates, dykes kill and beat each other more than blacks or mestizos do. It's almost like an aberrant neurology has more effects on behaviors than merely interests in where dicks go. No.319462 >>319457 >Indeed, though since we're on the subject of being "TRIGGERED," can I just say that I personally object to tagging "body dysphoria" with the stigma of mental illness? Speaking as someone whose been committed to a psych ward, it just doesn't sit well with me that the idea of someone not being comfortable in their own skin is as bad as something like THE FUCKING BEDLAM! Even if it were the case that body dysphoria isn't a serious mental issue (it is), this is the equivalent of saying "I don't think a broken toe should be tarred with the same label of "Injury" as a broken spine." They're both injuries, they then get further sorted by severity. Whether you like it or not it is a mental illness. Very close friend of mine works in mental health and deals specifically with people who view their bodies incorrectly anorexics, bulemics, compulsive eaters, etc. and if you don't think it's severe enough as a category to be labelled "mental illness" that require care and treatment then you need to reevaluate your position on it. No.319463 >>319457 > hundreds of people do thousands of hours of unpaid work just to put on the County Fair. The county fair is a local event. Small town communities support each other. People going out of their way to help other communities is definitely outside of the normal. It's understandable, yes, since it's their "community" that they've joined. Because they didn't have one of their own, and needed a replacement. And that's sad. Besides that: >>319460 >>319462 You're a nutter. No.319465 >>319462 >Even if it were the case that body dysphoria isn't a serious mental issue (it is) >require care and treatment then you need to reevaluate your position on it. I'm not saying it isn't, it's just that the stigma of the "illness" label makes fuckers like >>319460 act like it's a horrible abnormality that needs to be "cured." >>319463 >Because they didn't have one of their own, and needed a replacement. And that's sad. Well lack of community has been a thing in this modern information age; It allows us to experience the wide world, but we've become desensitized to our local surroundings. Hell, just yesterday my mother was disapproving of the idea that I put a name plaque up on the front of our new house, because… it allows strangers to come up to the door knowing my name? No.319466 >>319463 >You're a nutter. Because I said Dysphoria is a mental health issue that people are treated for daily and do end up in psych wards because they are a danger to themselves? That's just reality, m80. No.319468 >>319466 Reread for comprehension, the "nutter" comment is addressed to: >>319457 As is the rest of the post. No.319471 >>318498 Spicy dangerous game for "edgy" normalfags, you can make racist statements, as a joke, haha! Fucking cancer. No.319472 >>319465 >I'm not saying it isn't, it's just that the stigma of the "illness" label makes fuckers like >>319460 act like it's a horrible abnormality that needs to be "cured." I see what you're getting at. The thing is, certain things can't be 'cured', a lot of mental healthcare is a crapshoot, but they are mentally unwell and should be 'cured' in as much as there is a wrong that should be righted in the same way that you'd treat a cold all the way to pneumonia. If you have depression, for example, then being a self destructive wierdo descending into madness isn't what you should do, you should get treated. Same with dysphoria/dysmorphia, you shouldn't just think "no I'm fine" and carry on, you actually do have an issue that effects daily life and should be treated for it, not just for you, but for the benefit of everyone else. The stigma exists similarly too. I don't necessarily 'stigmatise' the sick, but I'm not going near ill people and I wouldn't let them sneeze on me for really obvious reasons. Similarly, I don't hold anything against crazy people, but I don't want their crazy fucking with my life for similarly obvious reasons. I'm sure there are a lot people that stigmatise the unwell but they're not doing it out of any particular hatred (at least on a base level), it's just self-interest that they may eventually turn into hatred to justify their emotional reaction to mental people. So yeah; there is a stigma attached but you're going to have to live with it. They are mental health disorders and can become severe to the point of endangerment. I know in my life I've never had anything but positive response to my seeking help for mental health issues standard depression & anxiety, so I've never seen the stigma personally. I do know that if there's one thing the mentally unwell do, it's place far too much emphasis on what others are thinking or would think of them, though. Truth is people mostly don't give a fuck about you and that's a good thing. No.319473 >>318540 >I am a gamer, i made a vague reference and another reference in an attempt to establish my credibility to outsiders having no idea what I'm talking about, but whom i need to convince I'm in the right Fucking disgusting. No.319474 >>318609 > what their gender WAS? Kill yourself immediately. Gender DOES NOT EVEN EXIST IN ENGLISH LANGUAGE It's a linguistic term that's important part of grammar in European and Slavic Languages. You meant sex. No.319475 >>319472 >The thing is, certain things can't be 'cured', a lot of mental healthcare is a crapshoot, but they are mentally unwell and should be 'cured' in as much as there is a wrong that should be righted in the same way that you'd treat a cold all the way to pneumonia. If you have depression, for example, then being a self destructive wierdo descending into madness isn't what you should do, you should get treated. Same with dysphoria/dysmorphia, you shouldn't just think "no I'm fine" and carry on, you actually do have an issue that effects daily life and should be treated for it, not just for you, but for the benefit of everyone else. Yeah, and there in lies the difference, Mental Disorders are something you seek treatment to cope with so it doesn't adversely affect your life. >I know in my life I've never had anything but positive response to my seeking help for mental health issues standard depression & anxiety, so I've never seen the stigma personally. Yeah, most of my experience has revolved around my Pervasive Developmental Disorder - Not Otherwise Specified, or in layman-terms, "…Autism?" So while I fall somewhere on the autistic spectrum, you wouldn't know it by talking with me, because I can carry on a normal conversation like a regular human being… …Which is a problem, because it makes people assume there isn't actually anything WRONG with me, when in actuality I have trouble regularly carrying out even the most basic of self-maintenance task. > I do know that if there's one thing the mentally unwell do, it's place far too much emphasis on what others are thinking or would think of them, though. Truth is people mostly don't give a fuck about you and that's a good thing. Eh, it may be my perfect clusterfuck of a dysfunctional upbringing, but in my experience MOST people put an unhealthy emphasis on how they are perceived by others. No.319476 >>319474 Fun fact: the French word for masculinity is grammatically female while the word for femininity is grammatically male. No.319477 >>319142 >Letting someone be born only to live a really shitty life sounds like a cunt thing to do Who are you to be the arbiter of life's quality? Someone making 40 times my yearly income in a minute might consider my life to be really shitty life, should he dispatch armed goons to euthanize me or abort my kid because It'll probably not be as rich as him? No.319478 >>319476 Ayyy, Polish word for TV (device) is male, while the TV (media) is female. Masculinity, Feminity and Neutrality are all female too. No.319481 >>319477 >Who are you to be the arbiter of life's quality? >Someone making 40 times my yearly income in a minute might consider my life to be really shitty life, should he dispatch armed goons to euthanize me or abort my kid because It'll probably not be as rich as him? And this is why I suggest those "Pro-lifers" focus less on abortion and more on improving the foster care and adoption. No.319484 >>319481 >If you're not a rothschild-tier rich you should have kids Literally retarded, though you probably believe in a magical line between "human" and "lump of cells" that isn't conception. I think you should be euthanized because it's immoral to let retards like you live. No.319485 >>319477 >Someone making 40 times my yearly income in a minute might consider my life to be really shitty life, should he dispatch armed goons to euthanize me or abort my kid because It'll probably not be as rich as him? Medical boards do actually make Quality Of Life assessments all the time when considering who gets to have transplants and such, but that aside: Stop thinking of aborting downs kids the same way you'd think of killing a 26 year old. It's just not the same, it's too personalised. You have to think of it in aggregate terms. If someone said "You'd never have been born!" the reaction shouldn't be "That means it's bad", it should be "I as a concept wouldn't exist, I wouldn't have even had the opportunity to feel anything, I just wouldn't be. But something objectively better would exist." Imagine that across the board. IQ jump, everyone more athletic and healthy, etc. I do agree that some selection pressures are social though, so we could easily choose the "wrong" things to select for, depending on your outlook. We can actually establish an objective baseline of "acceptable" though, because we already treat what we find unacceptable and term them as illness, disorders, etc. If your kid is going to have impairments that will fuck their life up and require lifelong treatment, it's better to simply have another kid that isn't as fucked up. As the anon above mentioned with Iceland; people already know this and do so, it doesn't need enforcing. However, if it was enforced and your unborn child simply didn't meet minimum requirements for a life where they could never function independently or would be in constant pain or discomfort, then we already have measures of what those boundaries are and they'd terminate the pregnancy. That said: 1. If genetic engineering in humans becomes a thing (it should) then it would actually be unethical to not engineer your child to be the best it could be. You'd be choosing to disadvantage your own kid in a world where others will outcompete them in every way 2. In nations with nationalised healthcare, some element of public decision must go into how that healthcare money is spent. Legislation has been proposed to stop public funded treatment for self-inflicted disease such as smoking induced lung cancer and obesity induced heart disease. If a child were to be born that would be nothing but a financial burden on the system, it probably could be a public option for them to say "The birth and care of this child will not be public funded." They could privately fund raising a retard, but there are decent grounds to say "we as a nation won't fund organic cash sinks." No.319488 >>319485 > IQ jump, All those geniuses would love to fix my plumbing and dig ditches in the garden! > If your kid is going to have impairments that will fuck their life up and require lifelong treatment, it's better to simply have another kid that isn't as fucked up JUST MURDER YOUR KID, LMAO, pregnancy is not a big deal, just MAKE ANOTHER ONE, if child underperforms at school snap his fucking neck and take a better one from an orphanage, he was only 10 years old, no biggie. Though to be honest, I'd rather all white people were sterilized at birth so this issue would not arise, and I want to see Islamic Europe before retirement. I really need to stop viewing goyim as anything more as cattle but it's difficult due to them looking like humans. No.319489 >>319474 >Gender doesn't exist in the English language Gendered words do. Him, her, etc. Less so than in other languages. And gender is a legit psychological thing, but it ultimately should be left for professionals because it's a technical term. It's like "Privilege." Privilege is a real sociological term, but it's grossly misused in common practice because people have no fucking clue what it means and it has connotations outside of the technical field that colour it. In standard language I agree; it's best to simply refer to someone's sex, mostly because it's genetically accurate which is more objective a measure than someone's psychological expression which can change minute-by-minute. Ropey write-up. Could be wrong but it's what I remember from studying psych: Gender is fluid in nature. The people that call themselves genderfluid think it's a big deal. It's not. It literally means some days you could feel a little less manly than others for perfectly natural reasons, or you could be a tomboyish girl rather than following what's expected in the aggregate from a female. Gender identitarians are OBSESSED with the concept, when in reality it's literally just a descriptor for your psychological expression of your sex and the connotations with it. Sex is male and female, gender is masculine and feminine. You can be a feminine guy, but you're still a guy. You can be a masculine girl, but you're still a girl. Gender Identity Disorder or Gender Dysphoria is when your own mind feels so out of touch with the body's sex that it interferes with your daily life and can become dangerous. Some kids with GID/GD will mutilate their own genitals, as an example. It is a mental disorder that needs adequate healthcare, saying 'trannies don't real' is fucking retarded. No.319490 >>319488 You're an overemotional retard. No.319493 File: 1e4da14a8eac5cb⋯.jpg (277.82 KB, 1280x1175, 256:235, e230dd9eb05981a27f62414df6….jpg) >>319481 The reason "pro-lifers" focus about abortion is because it's morally wrong to kill a child*, especially for the reasons typically done - namely, people who were themselves sexually immoral and careless. Also, because they're called "pro-life", not "pro-better-quality-living". Most, for the record, probably are that as well - but that's a separate matter. What you're suggesting is the equivalent of "well, I prefer steak to hamburger, but since the only food in the fridge is ground beef, I guess I'll just wait until a steak shows up". What you are very right about is that the foster care and adoption system has been completely fucked, and very much intentionally so - because (((someone))) would rather that people adopt children from out of the country. It's practically impossible for a normal family to go through all of the leaps and hurdles required to adopt an ordinary white child in the United States, outside of those with mental disorders. >>319484 To be fair to the matter, there's a lot of lines to draw which aren't "magical" on the matter. The beginning of proper brain development, for example. If you're a romanticist, there's also the matter of the heart beat, despite its true function as a glorified pump. >>319485 > Medical boards do actually make Quality Of Life assessments all the time when considering who gets to have transplants and such This is extremely inaccurate. Medical boards operate principally upon a chart which aggregates the various complications and overall health of a patient. In states with higher demand, such as California, it's virtually impossible to get transplants for organs such as the liver without already being on death's door, at which point (in that case) there is a very high chance of failure in other organs, such as the kidney. There is, to some degree, an assessment - someone who loses a liver to alcohol, for example, must promise to never drink again. But there's nothing to enforce that, and there have been examples of people getting repeat organs. Your entire argument in this post is the idea of board decisions, and as someone who has watched the transplant process first hand, I can tell you that I trust no medical board in the world to decide jack shit. These are the same people that decide someone like Steve Jobbs, who already has pancreatic cancer and is going to die, should be given another few years of life, just because he moved his residency to a state where the minimum transplantation score is close to 20 points lower than his actual home state. (tbCONT) No.319494 >>319493 (CONT) > We can actually establish an objective baseline of "acceptable" though You don't know what the word objective means, just like you don't know what you're talking about regarding transplantation. Genetic engineering, abortion eugenics (distinguishing this from sterilization, which is a separate matter), and the like are the worst possible way to go about things. Instead, the focus should be a proper matter of education (mental and physical), and on proper technological replacements for human organs. Good genetics don't make athletes and academics. They just make wasted potential. What does make good athletes and academics is the nurture aspect - nature merely determines how far they can theoretically take it, and has nothing to do with potential. Quite frankly, while there's a lot I can do with a kid who's been told he "has everything", I can do a lot more with one who doesn't - because he, at least, I can mold into being competitive. And competition is really the only human instinct that matters. On the other hand, advancement in technology (especially bio-tech) can be used to improve quality of life for everyone, from top to bottom. Artificial organs. Treatments for cancer. Cures of alzheimers and other disease of the mind. A way off this fucking planet so over-population doesn't become an issue. More efficient weapons that minimize civilian casualties. Quicker ways of transport, and better ways to preserve food. * There are a few exemptions. I remember hearing a story from a nurse about a couple who learned their child had developed a strange disorder where his skull wasn't going to form properly, leaving his brain exposed. The doctors urged the parents to have the child aborted before it could be born, because there would be no chance of survival outside the womb. The parents refused on moral grounds, and the child was born, brain exposed to open air. The doctors did everything they could, but it was clear from the start nothing was going to save him. He spent close to 12 hours screaming from pain before he finally died in a hospital room. In those cases, where the child will assuredly die anyways, it's better to do things in the most painless method possible. Similarly, if a complication is presented which could actually threaten the life of the mother, a person should have the right to choose the preservation of their own life over that of another. Children with certain heritable disorders should most certainly be sterilized at birth, as well, to prevent them from creating more like them. No.319495 >>319489 You're wrong, funny how the kid who lost his dick and was raised as a girl killed himself, as did his brother. Those aren't gendered words, those are pronouns you fucking pseudointellectual fuck. >John has a book. It's his book. >Mary has a cat. Her cat is fluffy. >Mary was drinking, John was drinking, Tree was drinking through its roots have the exact same form, meanwhile in Polish it'd be >Mary piła, John pił, Drzewo piło przez korzenie Both are past tense of drink, with gender changing based on the sex of the speaker/grammar rule regarding which gender you're using. >genderfluidity pseudoscience ebin, keep watching Bill Nye >best way of dealing with image-delusions is enabling and encouraging them. Gonna tell my father to tell anorexics they're fat fucking slobs, or schizos they should listen to the voices they hear, wonder how'll that go. No.319496 >>319493 >To be fair to the matter, there's a lot of lines to draw which aren't "magical" on the matter. The beginning of proper brain development, for example. If you're a romanticist, there's also the matter of the heart beat, despite its true function as a glorified pump. >Not magical >somehow this "100% not human" being develops a human brain and nervous system No.319499 File: c0d7c362d74601e⋯.jpg (63.74 KB, 388x431, 388:431, c0d7c362d74601ecbe9a63aa6a….jpg) >>319496 I didn't say I agree with it, I'm just giving the more and less reasonable examples that I've commonly heard. It's embarrassing being in agreement with people who can't read, you know. Try to keep up. There's no "somehow" about it, either. The DNA is coded to do something. It's effectively no different than when your computer sends a string of data to your monitor for the purpose of displaying an image. The data isn't an image, it's just data. The key difference is that this "data" is most certainly human cells, and unless stopped, will develop into a human life. The immorality at that stage is not from killing a human, it's from stopping one from being born. The ambiguity in at which state the potential person becomes an actual person is irrelevant to the matter. Which falls back to the example of data. There is no "half display" (unless the monitor itself has an issue) - there is only the display. The moment the signals are sent from the computer, they will either reach the monitor, or they will not. There is not a halfway point at which you may cut it and say "this isn't shaping into the display I wanted, I shall cut it before it finishes"; there is either "this display is fine, I like the content", "this display is fine, I despise the content", and "there is no display, for I have cut the cord". No.319504 >>319457 >Was she an actual cow "Cursed" into human form or just an engineered dairy humanoid? I doubt you should think about that too hard. Everyone acts as if it is normal for cows to look like that and he sees her as a hot babe as soon as he puts these fake human ears on her head. No.319505 >>319504 No-one cared who she was until she put on the ears. No.319506 >>319484 >you probably believe in a magical line between "human" and "lump of cells" that isn't conception. >>319493 >morally wrong to kill a child >To be fair to the matter, there's a lot of lines to draw which aren't "magical" on the matter. Yeah, here is the thing, it isn't until the 24 week of pregnancy that the fetal brain starts to properly develop, hence the "No abortions after the third trimester" thing because after that point the fetus has started down the road to potentially becoming an independent human being. Still, that's 2/3rds of the way into the pregnancy, or more succinctly, SIX MONTHS. I doubt by the time a half a year has passed you'd still be up in the air about whether or not you'd want to have a baby. Hell, for the first nine weeks, or two months, the "child" is still considered an embryo, which if you've ever eaten eggs yolks, is the thing you are actually eating. >>319504 >I doubt you should think about that too hard. Everyone acts as if it is normal for cows to look like that and he sees her as a hot babe as soon as he puts these fake human ears on her head. Yeah, I kinda figured it was some sort of satire… No.319508 >>319495 >funny how the kid who lost his dick and was raised as a girl killed himself, as did his brother Yeah; because they were horribly abused you soft cunt. >Pronouns aren't words because if they are and they're gendered then I lose Good work >genderfluidity pseudoscience You don't actually understand the terminology, your opinion's worthless. >best way of dealing with image-delusions is enabling and encouraging them. Get this, right: Normally we don't cut people right the fuck open. It tends to be really damaging and often has serious medical consequences. However, when cutting someone open is actually a safer option than the alternatives, we work out ways to make cutting people the fuck open work out as best as possible. Now; if you get someone that's so mentally unwell that they are physically harming themselves and destroying their lives through an actual disorder, then sometimes (read: sometimes, not all the time) surgery is a valid alternative. No.319510 File: 8575aef911318e6⋯.gif (1.83 MB, 280x200, 7:5, hen.gif) >>319506 My stance is here: >>319499 It's a human life. Is it independent? No. It's not. But a baby isn't either. The mother has the duty to bring it to the point it can be, just as the father has the duty to raise the child as a proper adult. And make no mistake here, I consider paternal abandonment a crime as well. Whatever your dick makes, you better damn well raise to adulthood. Your egg yolk comment is quite out of left field. Also? Wrong. If you're eating factory farm eggs, those yolks are not fertile. And assuming you are eating them from a source where they are, it's not a moral issue, any more than eating the chickens themselves is. Besides that, you don't know what a yolk is, do you? A yolk on its own is not an embryo. It never becomes an embryo, in fact - it feeds the embryo. It's essentially a super-charged placenta which permits growth outside of the parent. And the development of that embryo becomes clearly visible as early as Day 3 of the 21-day cycle. >>319508 >>319495 You're both wrong and right regarding the matter of pronouns. We use the term "gendered" to refer to them because it's the closest approximation we have in the English language, which is notably one of those peculiar languages that refers to most non-person subjects as "it" (excluding certain societal matters, such as referring to a gun or a car as a "her"). Most other languages provide pronouns for specific types of objects as having a gender, so that a tree may be a "him", "her", or "neuter" rather than an "it" (technically neuter, but used different grammatically). But much of this is a result not of an assigned "gender", but the etymological origins of the word. "Cобака" is a "feminine" noun in how it's treated in the language, and obeys those grammatical rules, but it certainly wouldn't be accurate to say that every dog is female. Realistically, it's probably only about half of them. Maybe less. It's important to note that this "grammatical gender" is nothing alike the pseudo-scientific psychological conception of "gender", which has to do with mental processes rather than etymological ones. The only cross-over comes to personal pronouns, which, when referring to a person, are typically defined based on the sex, just as they are with any proper living noun. In these cases, a person identifying as an "attack helicopter" may demand the pronouns "swa/swaa/swaaa" but this holds no bearing either scientifically or linguistically. Someone identifying as a "her" despite being a "him" is also acting outside of the rules for the language, and attempting to change them so he can feel better. No.319515 >>319510 Look in any English language dictionary before the 1970s, the only meaning of "gender" is an obscure term referring to linguistic quirks that are largely irrelevant in English. Anything else is a pointless, meaningless neologism created by "Doctor" Money picking a random word and raping it in the 1970s. No.319518 >>319506 > which if you've ever eaten eggs yolks, is the thing you are actually eating. Lol no. Egg yolk is an UNFERTILIZED EGG with food for the chick to eat in development before hatching. Chinks eat chicken fetuses as a delicacy. No.319521 >>319510 >It's a human life. Is it independent? No. It's not. But a baby isn't either. Yeah, I can understand and respect your stance, but… >The mother has the duty to bring it to the point it can be, just as the father has the duty to raise the child as a proper adult. And make no mistake here, I consider paternal abandonment a crime as well. Whatever your dick makes, you better damn well raise to adulthood. This is where things get really damn complicated, mostly because of how some "parents" are so irresponsible that they aren't even trusted to care for themselves, let alone another human being. This… plays hell on the would-be child both physically (health complications arising due to maternal substance abuse and the like) and mentally (because a such a nonparent isn't usually an emotionally stable individual to begin with, and will often end up inflicting the same instability onto their offspring). And on top of all of that is the fact that is that a conception can result from two people (literally) fucking up ONCE. Suzy Sophomore and Johnny Senior are now limited to the rather horrid life of teen pregnancy, all because their hormone addled brains weren't thinking clearly enough to either keep it in their pants or take proper precautions. Suzy's life at the very least is ruined, especially if Johnny fails to take responsibility, because she now has to raise a poor infant while still trying to finish high-school AND enduring the social stigmata of an unfortunate mistake. Of course, she's always got the option of sticking a coat hanger up her cootch! Which is the real sticking point; We can argue the morality of the issue till we're both blue in the face but, like Prohibition and drinking, you won't be able to STOP women from getting abortions no matter how illegal you make it. Even if they have to throw themselves down stairs or go to some shady back-alley, they're going to try, and will probably end up greatly injuring themselves in the process. >Your egg yolk comment is quite out of left field. Yeah, sorry about the yokel ignorance, but the point I was trying to make is that a human embryo looks like a chestburster, if it even looks like anything at all. At that point of gestation, it really is just a mass of multiplying cells, and it's for that very reason that a pregnancy can easily fail naturally at this stage. In fact, the would-have-been mother might not have even noticed! No.319523 >>319521 >that a pregnancy can easily fail naturally at this stage. Are you trying to imply that because bad things happen regardless of your actions it's morally justifiable to cause them yourself? No.319528 File: 9cf930390940d32⋯.jpg (86.16 KB, 595x564, 595:564, 1464104625267.jpg) >>319521 The issues presented are simplified by two simple matters: > extended family > adoptions Extended family exists for a reason. Grandparents are meant to be involved in the child-raising process, and in the case of teenagers and the like, it's quite likely the grandparents are still young enough to have more children of their own. And in those cases where even that is not present, the adoption process allows the child to be passed onto another family. The issue there arises from our system for adoption being fucked, as discussed prior. And also from poor knowledge and aptitude for parenting - something which comes about primarily from having a poor education system which is dedicated to testing inane facts to pass college entrance exams rather than preparing students for a life as homekeepers and workers. Suzy and Johnny should have known better, and given the proper nurturing environment, they wouldn't have fucked up the way they did. And even if they did, there would the net of the extended family. So now they get married, enjoy some tax breaks from the government. Johnny, in this proper scenario, has actually been taught some useful skill while in school, such as a welding class or whatever else, and can now get a job immediately out of high school. Suzy leaves the kid with her parents or grandparents when going to classes. Or possibly, they hire a nanny. Hell, maybe Johnny goes ahead and joins the Army, and the three of them get into a traveling lifestyle. You say their life is ruined. I say their life is different. It may potentially be ruined by other circumstances, such as bad family and other circumstances, but those have nothing to do with the action of having an unwanted pregnancy, and would have been present regardless of what happened. Obviously nothing is going to prevent everyone, but that's where the social factors come into play. When there is a stigma against something like abortion, rather than it being made into a "proper right" for people, it strikes hard as something that should not be done. When sex outside of marriage is stigmatized instead of romanticized, though people may still do it, they'll be a hell of a lot more careful, and a lot more rare. No.319529 /tg/: we discuss teen pregnancy, the merits and flaws of abortion and the nuances of child rearing. No.319530 >>319528 Question: If someone is such a fuckup they make a kid they don't want, why would you want them contributing to the gene pool? Also, I hope you realize the kikestian obsession against abortion is (like many aspects of religion that are insane) rooted in the early church's reasonable objection against Romans simply abandoning unwanted infants at landfills, right? No.319532 >>319530 >Question: If someone is such a fuckup they make a kid they don't want, why would you want them contributing to the gene pool? Because saying you're pro-eugenics is a social faux pas. A case can be made for culling retards VS culling potential retards before they are born, but that's opening up a whole other can of worms because whoever swings the sword on that one becomes extremely powerful and capable of signing the death warrants of potentially millions of people. No.319534 File: 2eee4c0ec1f6696⋯.gif (134.13 KB, 287x344, 287:344, 145134514.gif) >>319530 Because, contrary to popular belief, the genes of a person are not the be-all, end-all to their development. People brought from the absolute worst of households, with enough ambition and a good mentor somewhere in their life, can make something of themselves; just as, believe it or not, the children of the best families can end up jobless NEETs because they never applied themselves. The obsession you refer to, by the way, draws its basis from the commandment not to murder. The fundamental basis behind the pro-life aspects of Christianity is that life (of a sort, at least) begins at conception. The Church objecting to such a thing wasn't a political matter, it was a moral one, and not one that has changed. Your definition of insanity is also quite humorous, tipper. >>319529 Where else would you discuss it, honestly? /pol/: > half of the posts are saged saying "not politics" (read:downvote) > other half is mostly saying to abort every non-white baby or ones with defects > small group of /christian/s saying not to abort at all /leftypol/: > everyone is pro-choice > small cluster that literally see Brave New World as a cookbook > OP gets banned No.319535 >>319528 Even if they're irresponsible, the solution isn't to murder an innocent child and rather sterilize retarded parents and take the kid from them. No.319537 >>319534 >>319535 >nature vs. nurture But doesn't that make it even more imperative to ensure that children are raised by parents that are psychologically and economically mature enough to do a good job? >murder We all know this is pretty arbitrary. What about all the eggs and sperm cells that don't fertilize? They spout the same nonsense about contraceptives (though, to be fair, a common line on that is the separate but equally ridiculous "sex is sinful" junk). Abortion is simply the same thing, carried far ahead enough to deal with the small number of people too dumb to use birth prevention. >everyone is pro-choice Nah, pro-abortion. "Pro-choice" vs. "pro-life" is inane PC speak. No.319538 >>319537 > What about all the eggs and sperm cells that don't fertilize? Are you retarded Single HAPLOID CELL WILL NEVER BECOME A HUMAN WITHOUT ANOTHER ONE >Well, if people die of natural causes, why can't we go out and murder whomever we want? No.319541 File: cd06fd9d429b4a2⋯.jpg (26.99 KB, 500x281, 500:281, 1461797359179.jpg) >>319537 > But doesn't that make it even more imperative to ensure that children are raised by parents that are psychologically and economically mature enough to do a good job? No, it makes it imperative to ensure that the educational system is capable of supplementing what the parents are unable to do, and that the messages pressed upon society itself encourage and support functional family environments, while the nation itself has the proper laws for dealing with adoption and a proper system for foster care. Hell, even state boarding schools, to a certain extent. That certain extent, in all things, being a very limited one. Give the state too much power over the affair, one way or another, and you run into the simple issue of too much power, which becomes very easy to abuse by some jackass deciding to get political in his job. One doesn't want to give supreme power over the decision to the person that wants to abort as many people as possible because he read a book about overpopulation once, nor does one wish to give it to the man who would deny a woman an abortion for a pregnancy which, for whatever reason, would prove fatal if the child was not removed. > We all know this is pretty arbitrary. No. It's really not. Either you believe that you are ending/preventing human life, in which case it is murder, or you believe that it is not, in which case it is not murder. These cannot be simultaneously true. One is, the other is not. The arbitrary question isn't if it is murder - it is - it's whether or not murder is justifiable. The natural rights of the people, in western civilization, are life, liberty, and property, generally in that order of precedence. The right of the unborn child is life. The right of a man on the street is life. Aborting the former, or killing the later, is not exercising the right of liberty; it's destroying the higher right, to life, of another. > Nah, pro-abortion. "Pro-choice" vs. "pro-life" is inane PC speak. A nightshade by any other name is just as fatal. >>319538 Must you use hyperbole every single post? No.319543 >>319538 You're really reaching there man. >>319541 >while the nation itself has the proper laws for dealing with adoption and a proper system for foster care. Hell, even state boarding schools, to a certain extent. My country's foster care system is basically a glorified slave trafficking ring. Purged so many times it's pretty much better to not even bother having foster care services and just cut the whole tumor out. And many parents don't tech their children because the public education system exists, not the other way around. >The arbitrary question isn't if it is murder - it is - it's whether or not murder is justifiable. No it really is arbitrary, it all boils down to the development of the fetus and what stage it is at before it's terminated. No.319546 >>319543 > No it really is arbitrary, it all boils down to the development of the fetus and what stage it is at before it's terminated. Whatever stage it is, you are still putting preventing a human from being born. If I walked outside right now, went out to the coop, grabbed a bunch of eggs, put them in an incubator, and waited seventeen days before slamming them to the ground, I would see either no development at all, or a chick in the last few days of its development cycle. If I had done that fourteen days earlier, the first sort would be the same, while the second would instead be veins of red. In the same way, with human abortion, there is either a human developing, or there is not. Give it enough time, and excluding the chance of a problem in development - in which case, by all means, remove the dead cells from the body - you will see a fully developed human child. > My country's foster care system is basically a glorified slave trafficking ring. Purged so many times it's pretty much better to not even bother having foster care services and just cut the whole tumor out. Most foster care systems are fucked right now. That's not what we're arguing about. Right now, abortion is legal, and the foster systems and adoption processes in most companies are fucked. The solution isn't to allow abortion because the system is broken, it's to fix the system so whatever few virtues abortion has become meaningless. > And many parents don't tech their children because the public education system exists, not the other way around. Same for the above. Also, wrong. Most parents don't teach their children because they have to do jobs of their own, or because they don't know how. The latter is fixed by a better system, and the former we can mostly thank the rise of feminism for. No.319549 >>319543 >t's whether or not murder is justifiable. Murder is literally NEVER justifiable, killing can be. No.319552 >>319549 This. By dictionary definition, murder is wrongful killing in the eyes of the law, justifiable homicide isn't murder. No.319592 >>319541 > No, it makes it imperative to ensure that the educational system is capable of supplementing what the parents are unable to do, and that the messages pressed upon society itself encourage and support functional family environments, while the nation itself has the proper laws for dealing with adoption and a proper system for foster care. Hell, even state boarding schools, to a certain extent. While I generally agree with you on all fronts I'm going to chase the public education distraction. I've always seen a paradox of sorts in the very notion of public education - that is if public education is effective enough to properly educate citizens then doesn't it follow that after a generation has been thusly educated there is no longer any need for it since that generation can teach the next one what they themselves were taught? If the public education system is not effective enough to equip people with the information they need to educate their children without outside aide then why bother having it in the first place? You talk about the danger of getting too much government involved but isn't stating that parent's are insufficient in and of themselves without the aid of the state to fill in the gaps create exactly the kind of environment that encourages people to rely on the state to outsource their responsibilities to? Full disclosure I am very strongly opposed to public education on principle so I'm not coming at this from a neutral position. No.319594 >>319528 >Grandparents are meant to be involved in the child-raising process Yes, but this isn't always the case… >The issue there arises from our system for adoption being fucked Hence why I suggest "Pro-life" divert their energies from anti-abortion efforts to improving the adoption system. I mean, if you want more would-be abortions carried to term so that they could go into that system, you'd want it functioning properly. >there would the net of the extended family Again, you can't always count on this… >given the proper nurturing environment Well we don't live in a perfect world… >Johnny, in this proper scenario, has actually been taught some useful skill while in school, such as a welding class or whatever else, and can now get a job immediately out of high school. …This being the perfect example, as even having marketable skills does not equate into being able to find a job. > When there is a stigma against something like abortion, rather than it being made into a "proper right" for people, it strikes hard as something that should not be done. When sex outside of marriage is stigmatized instead of romanticized, though people may still do it, they'll be a hell of a lot more careful, and a lot more rare. Yeah, you can demonize something all you want, but it doesn't stop it from being done Hell, sex outside of marriage has kinda always been the norm, it just wasn't spoken of and if conception did happen, a wedding would attempted to be forced, because otherwise the poor mother would be stigmatized for being a single teen-aged mother. This would be a negative social impact both her and her child. >>319541 >No, it makes it imperative to ensure that the educational system is capable of supplementing what the parents are unable to do, and that the messages pressed upon society itself encourage and support functional family environments, while the nation itself has the proper laws for dealing with adoption and a proper system for foster care. True, as raising a child does take a village, but this sort of society needs to properly value both interpersonal relationships and the gift of procreation. You want to claim our society has romanticized extramarital relations, but the reality is we've under-valued the true intimacy of sexual congress. We've become too fast and easy when it comes to porking, and while one can make the argument this is due to the prevalence of contraceptives, it's mostly because we are hard-wired to seek the gratification that comes with sexual release. I know this is veering back into feminist tripe, but I honestly believe a component to this is how little a man actually has to be invested in the reproductive process. While its basically a personal meme at this point, I do think a society of Tentacle Lesbians would function way better in this regard, since ANY and all partners in a particular mating could get knocked up. >Either you believe that you are ending/preventing human life, in which case it is murder Uh, yeah man, PREVENTING a human life is a pretty arbitrary definition of murder… No.319597 File: 1cea5ce47427f65⋯.jpg (1.87 MB, 4920x4161, 1640:1387, 1483048215791.jpg) >>319594 >Hell, sex outside of marriage has kinda always been the norm, No.319599 >>319594 >believe a component to this is how little a man actually has to be invested in the reproductive process. >replace fathers and husbands with gubmint >WTF WHERE ARE ALL THE FATHERS AND HUSBANDS GONE?! No.319602 File: 4fafe91589ff9b0⋯.jpg (142.69 KB, 526x490, 263:245, 1452187139135.jpg) File: 936bc9a8095d50c⋯.png (632.09 KB, 900x1045, 180:209, 1462130114831.png) File: 0fc82210a592098⋯.png (525.5 KB, 1024x768, 4:3, 1491773661717.png) File: 9396374628d5b3f⋯.png (165.89 KB, 900x338, 450:169, 1491871848124.png) >>319599 >>replace fathers and husbands with gubmint No anon, WE REPLACE THEM WITH MORE MOTHERS AND WIVES!!! No.319605 No.319606 >>319546 >Whatever stage it is, you are still putting preventing a human from being born. Prevention of being born =/= killing a grown baby. Until the baby is in the fetal stage it can generally not even be considered to be anything more then parasitic tissue, with some lines blurring between week 6-8. Once it's in the fetal stage it is more or less functioning with organs, circulatory system with it's brain on, it's organs are all on, and this is when it actually uses the placenta to breath. From that point it's development is going from the beginning of the stage (week 8) to fully grown baby (week 42). The absolute cutoff point would be week 24 since that's when the baby can survive outside the womb. However the majority of birth defects are in the embryonic stage. No.319607 >>319592 > I've always seen a paradox of sorts in the very notion of public education - that is if public education is effective enough to properly educate citizens then doesn't it follow that after a generation has been thusly educated there is no longer any need for it since that generation can teach the next one what they themselves were taught? You're right. But my views on public education aren't, I think what you're picturing when you envision public education: Free market theory proposes that the best thing a person can do with their time is what will net the greatest profit. In most cases, this will involve working a job of some kind. Parents will seek to do so, to provide the best they can to children at home. Private schools, in a competitive market, offer educational services at a price which allows the parents to keep working rather than handling personal education. At home, they serve to supplement what is made available in the schools. From an economics standpoint, the public system poses issues because it messes with the competition aspects of the market, while offering very few benefits. However, that is how it operates now. My view on a public education system looks more akin to this: > frequent camp trips around the countryside > instruction in practical skills (such as marksmanship and driving) as preparation for a government issued license > access to libraries and computer resources outside of class > implemented mentorship programs between students and students, or students and teachers > strongly emphasized sports and club programs > a proper athletic and nutritional regimen to ensure kids are healthy > a strong discipline program for behavior > division of students within grade levels based on talent (advanced students get expanded courses, lower-level students get minimal instruction) And all of this needs to be done for only 33 years, at the conclusion of which, the systems implemented will be put under the ownership of the individual cities, rather than the state/nation. Possibly private ownership, in some cases. The system does what it needs to do, and at its conclusion, prevents any government goons from getting the idea of subverting it, by shattering its centralized power. >>319594 >Hence why I suggest "Pro-life" divert their energies from anti-abortion efforts to improving the adoption system. Which is where you show your autism. They're called "pro-life" because they're anti-abortion. They're not called "pro-life" because they advocate for a better system in other ways. Saying someone should stop advocating one thing because "it's not the best way" and not understanding that is autism. > …This being the perfect example, as even having marketable skills does not equate into being able to find a job. Incorrect. You can always find a job if you're willing to look. Don't fall for that bullshit you've been fed. > Hell, sex outside of marriage has kinda always been the norm, Not really. It's happened, but it hasn't been the norm. >You want to claim our society has romanticized extramarital relations, but the reality is we've under-valued the true intimacy of sexual congress. > We've become too fast and easy when it comes to porking, and while one can make the argument this is due to the prevalence of contraceptives, it's mostly because we are hard-wired to seek the gratification that comes with sexual release. These two don't negate each other, you realize. It's all a perversion of sexual relations - the copulation between a married man and woman, joined in one body. Divorces, pressure in art and film to explore extramarital sex, pornography, all of it compiles together to create a defiled image of sex. > I know this is veering back into feminist tripe, but I honestly believe a component to this is how little a man actually has to be invested in the reproductive process. The man's role is in raising the child. Even a bad father is better than no father, in all but the most extreme cases - because at least a bad father can set a bad example to be ignored. Our retarded society has made it so the woman is considered the one to take custody of children, when that's far from the truth. The father, or another related male, is the one who should take the child after birth (the exception being for rape and the like, in which case, it'll be him getting put into custody; some other man will need to handle it). If the laws reflected that, you would solve a lot of issues. >>319606 > can generally not even be considered to be anything more then parasitic tissue Oh, so you're a liberal. It's prevention of birth. It's prevention of a potential life. It is the infliction of death, whichever way you cut it. No.319608 >>319367 You play CoC way too much my friend No.319610 >>319606 >not even be considered to be anything more then parasitic tissue, Go ahead, kick a pregnant woman in the gut, I'd like to see your line of defense work in court to be classified as "Involuntary manslaughter" because your assault led to accidental death of both the parasite and host human and not double murder. There's this cool thing called equality before the law. So the moment you declare fetuses not human for the sake of convenience because you're too worthless of a fucking animal to use contraceptives it also means murdering pregnant women is not double murder anymore. No.319611 File: 3b57682bbe0af15⋯.png (448.88 KB, 658x415, 658:415, 3b57682bbe0af1522978340622….png) >>319606 >I didn't read the thread: the post No.319613 File: 8c5251fb749f7f6⋯.jpg (8.97 KB, 247x253, 247:253, 1433528829975.jpg) >>319607 >It's prevention of birth. It's prevention of a potential life. It is the infliction of death, whichever way you cut it. And prevention of life from even occuring =/= murder, until it's in the fetal stage I wouldn't even consider it to be it's own independent thing. >>319610 >this entire post No.319615 >>319418 >battletech is pozzed AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH GOD FUCKING DAMMIT No.319623 >>319613 >prevention of life from even occuring =/= murder We're not talking about contraception though No.319624 >>319613 > I wouldn't even consider it to be it's own independent thing. On this we're agreed. It's not an independent thing. Neither is a newborn infant, which, if left on its own, will eventually die. Independence is not something which begins to develop until a few years into development. Hell, I'd argue most "adults" don't develop independence. At conception, you have begun the development process. Before that, do whatever. Put on a condom. Hotglue a rock. Grab a nice cucumber. But once conception happens, then failing a defect of some kind, a child will begin. If something happens as a result of natural causes, well, that sucks. People die, potential people die. But those of us alive in the world don't have the right to prevent another from joining it. No.319625 >>319624 >On this we're agreed. It's not an independent thing. >Neither is a newborn infant, which, if left on its own, will eventually die. Independence is not something which begins to develop until a few years into development. Hell, I'd argue most "adults" don't develop independence. That's not what I meant when I said independent and you know it, it doesn't even have a mind until the fetal stage. >then failing a defect of some kind, a child will begin. Majority of defects begin in the embryonic stage and the child doesn't begin until shortly after this stage, in the fetal stage. Terminating it when defects are detected is pretty much the best option. No.319634 >>319625 >it doesn't even have a mind until the fetal stage Oh_the_ironing.png Seeing you try to justify murder makes me wonder about your own mind here No.319635 >>319634 Oh come on mate, if you're going to stop trying to reason and start flinging insults, you can do better than that. No.319636 >>318540 >every developer, publisher and community manager (gasp) every? That's a lot. The statement quoted above is retarded. >>319634 >I use circular logic because I like sneering at the people not using circular logic. That's cute, dear. No.319639 File: 4f043da26cbf04f⋯.jpg (53.25 KB, 720x709, 720:709, 4f043da26cbf04ff45e73418c2….jpg) >>319625 > That's not what I meant when I said independent and you know it, it doesn't even have a mind until the fetal stage. But what's the essential difference? Your basis here is that the mind is requirement, as if this is a sort of special point. An adult with a severe mental disorder. Another in a coma with little chance of waking up, if any. Either of those may have minds that are essentially undeveloped. Killing them, though arguably a mercy, would be killing something that cannot defend itself. That same principle comes into play with the embryonic child, despite your attempts to classifying it as something "other". It is a growing human life. It has, if you are not inclined to call it something else, a soul. If we are nothing but flesh and blood, with no guiding force behind us, the abortion becomes an even greater crime. If there is life after death, then ending it is an acceleration to something inevitable, and possibly better. But if nothing of the sort exists, then the only thing that matters is life. Ending one cuts off that genetic line - even if the parents have other children, the exact results will differ - and all that would descend; it is ending the only possible chance that person had at living in the world, and it is a crime far greater on a universal scale than it could ever be under the existence of a God. > Majority of defects begin in the embryonic stage and the child doesn't begin until shortly after this stage, in the fetal stage. Terminating it when defects are detected is pretty much the best option. Unless the defect in question will result in death within perhaps a year of birth, termination is no option. Clearly if the child will be born missing vital organs, then it's a mercy to end its life. But a perfectly normal child, with no defects, or even one with defects severe, albeit livable? There is no excuse to kill it. And if you were to cull for the sake of preventing mental disabilities, you'd better be ready to change your name to Ebola-Chan, because you'll be killing more blacks than hangers and Ebola combined. No.319640 >>319639 >And if you were to cull for the sake of preventing mental disabilities, you'd better be ready to change your name to Ebola-Chan, because you'll be killing more blacks than hangers and Ebola combined. Nothing wrong with that. If it wasn't for western interference, niggers would likely have driven themselves to extinction. No.319641 >>319639 The rest of your post is fucking retarded (just like the "precious genetic lines" you're attempting to defend) but one part reminded me of something even dumber: >If there is life after death, then ending it is an acceleration to something inevitable, and possibly better. But if nothing of the sort exists, then the only thing that matters is life. Kek, don't kikestians have some sort of perverted obsession with bringing every twelve-headed subhuman incest rape mutant to term, specifically because they believe it gets auto-heavened if it's named and baptized during its brief moments of "life", otherwise it goes straight to hell/limbo/etc for all eternity? No.319643 File: 379e3208e038d6e⋯.jpg (426.2 KB, 762x785, 762:785, 379e3208e038d6e73f1618193c….jpg) >>319641 Your knowledge of Christianity is as shallow as your staggering idiocy is deep. > Kek > Kikestian Good to know you're a 13 year old degenerate. That said, I'll enlighten you on the topic: What you're describing is an argument with an answer depending on denomination. Some Christians believe that even using a condom is wrong, because all sex outside of procreation is immortal (most, of course, consider this ridiculous, since the entire concept of marriage is joining in one body and flesh - the aspect of "child raising" is a biological one; the aspect of fulfilling "man and woman, he created them" and becoming one complete being, is the spiritual one). Only a small number of denominations believe in limbo/purgatory and similar concepts, and the stance on hell differs as well. Calvinists, for example, believe that being "saved" is determined by God on an individual basis; you are or you aren't, it's set by birth. So baptism doesn't have anything to do with being saved. Lutherans believe God has saved everyone, and only by rejecting him are you turned from him; depending on interpretation, then an aborted child is, in fact, sent to God. Others would say only acceptance in life, others merely baptism. It varies widely. The idea of bringing children into the world isn't to save them - the world is a damned place, so if anything, you're doing them a spiritual disservice - it's to give them a chance at life, on the simple basis that, outside of war and defense, killing (murder) is immoral. >>319640 In principle I agree with you. The world would be a lot less violent if the dark continent was cleared of human life, and we had a chance to start over with it. But that's not our place to decide. Just like the people who, as you say, went in and interfered, had no place to do what they did. It's not too late to back away and let nature take its course. But there are a lot of very foolish people with very foolish notions responsible for damning the rest of us with their zealous ideologies. No.319646 >>319643 >the world is a damned place, so if anything, you're doing them a spiritual disservice Pretty sure this is the kind of heresy that got the Cathars wiped out. No.319650 File: 85db5a2aa34525f⋯.png (114.72 KB, 1302x1296, 217:216, 1426287265003.png) >>319646 Technically, every extant church aside from perhaps a few branches of esoteric Coptic mysticism are pretty much entirely heresy. No.319652 >>319650 Why Coptic? And the hell is "Primitive"? No.319653 >>319639 Your problem is you are assuming foreknowledge of what a "Soul" is, an ill defined thing with no set requirements, and slapping it on the embryo before it's even fully developed into the fetal stage and then calling it evil to terminate it. It is very clear that until it gets to a certain stage of development it cannot be considered anything more then a parasitic growth, if it had a soul at that point it wouldn't even notice since there is no sensory anything to determine anything, no mind, all neurons haven't even been fully developed and the nervous system has not made any connections together to form anything meaningful. >An adult with a severe mental disorder. Another in a coma with little chance of waking up, if any. If the adult is a potato child I'd certainly euthanize it. Anyone who is in a permanent coma being kept alive is wasting resources and should be taken off life support and euthanized or simply left to die. >Unless the defect in question will result in death within perhaps a year of birth, termination is no option. Termination is always an option, you're just arguing against doing it under moral grounds. >And if you were to cull for the sake of preventing mental disabilities, you'd better be ready to change your name to Ebola-Chan, because you'll be killing more blacks than hangers and Ebola combined. > >implying that's a bad thing No.319664 File: 4fafe91589ff9b0⋯.jpg (142.69 KB, 526x490, 263:245, 1452187139135.jpg) File: 936bc9a8095d50c⋯.png (632.09 KB, 900x1045, 180:209, 1462130114831.png) File: 0fc82210a592098⋯.png (525.5 KB, 1024x768, 4:3, 1491773661717.png) >>319599 >>replace fathers and husbands with gubmint No anon, WE REPLACE THEM WITH MORE MOTHERS AND WIVES!!!>>319607 >They're called "pro-life" because they're anti-abortion. They're not called "pro-life" because they advocate for a better system in other ways. Saying someone should stop advocating one thing because "it's not the best way" and not understanding that is autism. I am aware of the hypocrisy of the "Pro-life" movement, but it's not out of autism that I suggest they instead focus on improving things for unwanted children. Rather, it's a Catch-22 to rob them of their supposed moral high-ground; Your either want these children to be born into a hellish unwanted existence, in which case what the fuck kind of Christian are you, or you can actually do something that makes carrying unwanted children to term appealing. >You can always find a job if you're willing to look. Don't fall for that bullshit you've been fed. You're the one whose been falling for the bullshit they've been fed my friend… Sad truth is there isn't always a job for everyone. >It's all a perversion of sexual relations - the copulation between a married man and woman The problem is this isn't the only form of sexual relations, thus deifying one while demonizing the rest isn't helping the matter either. >>319610 >>not even be considered to be anything more then parasitic tissue, >So the moment you declare fetuses not human Except he was specifically referring to a fertilized embryo that HAD NOT reached the Fetal stage of development… >>319624 >At conception, you have begun the development process. Before that, do whatever. Put on a condom. Hotglue a rock. Grab a nice cucumber. But once conception happens, then failing a defect of some kind, a child will begin. If something happens as a result of natural causes, well, that sucks. People die, potential people die. But those of us alive in the world don't have the right to prevent another from joining it. Uh, isn't it kinda pretentious to assume conception equals automatically human? >>319653 >Your problem is you are assuming foreknowledge of what a "Soul" is, an ill defined thing with no set requirements, and slapping it on the embryo before it's even fully developed into the fetal stage and then calling it evil to terminate it. It is very clear that until it gets to a certain stage of development it cannot be considered anything more then a parasitic growth, if it had a soul at that point it wouldn't even notice since there is no sensory anything to determine anything, no mind, all neurons haven't even been fully developed and the nervous system has not made any connections together to form anything meaningful. …Because, yeah, until an embryo reaches the fetal stage, it's not any different than any other benign growth in the body… Hell, even using tissues as a definition of human life means teratoma also count… No.319667 What the fuck is even going on in this thread. No.319716 >>319667 We're on the roleplaying board, some people are roleplaying as knowing the first thing about ethics. Not sure what's the hangup. No.319727 >>319653 it is in no way parasetic. The intended function of an organism (reproduction) is not parasitism. If you want to go scientific, fine. But don't randomly reassign defined words to match your cause. It's a sign of SJWism and one of the main reasons why no one likes them. It's a human life (or potential human life) at all stages. It's wrong to kill humans except in the most direct cases to preserve human life, self defense is allowed when someone is trying to kill you, not when someone may injure you unintentionally. No.319736 >>319727 >it is in no way parasetic. > >But don't randomly reassign defined words to match your cause Parasites are organisms that live on or in another organism by taking nutrients from the host, the placenta isn't fully developed until the fetal stage or very end of the embryonic stage. It cannot survive without being a parasitic growth before that point. Technically since it's purpose is to ensure the baby lives on until it's ready to be born that "doesn't count", but the only other thing to call it would be a benign tumor. No.319748 >>319736 This. It's just a word, you're like an SJW getting triggered over "master" and "slave" designations in computer storage: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parasite_fighter No.319837 >>318516 Good post. >precisely as we saw happen in the SF&F literature industry. I'm not much of literature buff when it comes to publishing. What happened? No.319845 >>319837 A lot of people will point to the Sad/Rabid Puppies campaigns against SJW domination of the Hugo Award and its WorldCon event, but that was just the culmination of what had been happening earlier. From about the 1970s to the 1990s, genre fiction (fantasy, horror, SF, in that order) were conquered by various pervert groups (neopagans, transhumanists, homosexuals, misandrists, vegetarians, pedophiles, etc.) as an excuse to write thinly-veiled fetish wank material. By the 2000s, essentially every publisher, magazine, convention, and online forum had been completely subverted by what became SJWs. This was exacerbated, IMHO by everyone interested in actually selling lots of books (instead of wanking their ego raw and virtue signalling to their cohorts) abandoning genre fiction as a self-sufficient business. Instead, EVERYTHING in the mass market is a tie-in novel, by the '90s, I regularly saw 80% of shelf-space eaten up by Star Wars and Star Trek novels alone. No.319848 >>319845 Wasn't there a point where they were churning out so many Star Wars and Star Trek novels so quickly that they were stepping on each other's toes and contradicting continuity and lore as quickly as they were establishing it? No.319850 >>319845 >From about the 1970s to the 1990s, genre fiction (fantasy, horror, SF, in that order) were conquered by various pervert groups (neopagans, transhumanists, homosexuals, misandrists, vegetarians, pedophiles, etc.) as an excuse to write thinly-veiled fetish wank material Can you provide multiple examples of this happening? Also, transhuman comes with the sci-fi territory, I'm fairly sure. Good and evil cyborgs, for instance, have always been around. Also, as much as I think nontraditional vegans and vegetarians are misguided fools who deliberately weaken themselves, I don't think that qualifies as a fetish. No.319860 >>319845 Part of the problem is that it's all publisher-controlled. When there's a healthy market, any backyard attempt to censor it or promote shit would merely lead to losses and soon the offending publisher would be eliminated by natural selection. But publishers are close to the oligopoly - in hollywood complete, in music mostly, in other medium varies. Why does this inevitably matter? Because the publishers want to churn out product and control the hacks, not to depend on the real artists. You know how shit rappers and fat has-beens are crying for muh IP, while those who remain real artists lean toward "Download this song! More people to my concerts! hahahahaha!" if they bother to say anything on the matter at all? Because nobodies are glorified wage slaves - they know they can be discarded, and that will be it, without promotion they are not worth anything when there are a crowd of beginners who aren't any worse. Also, a lot of corporate bureaucrats are rather stupid frustrated control freaks. For these two reasons, all and any series, even if they started decent, once turned into a corporate cash cow eventually turn into bullshit made mostly by the hacks whose names even most fans can't remember (and 1-2 sad grognards suffering from sunk cost fallacy). Of course, those controlled by one author goes down once the author becomes a prima donna and/or senile, like Lucas, but that's not a writing on the wall. And then their choice is going to be between churning out completely random bullshit or bullshit with free advertisement (be it OMG IT'S SO PROGRESSIVE!!1 or OMG IT'S SO EDGY AND ADULT!!1) and free plastic flowers from butlers of a Soroskfellers or their pocket Pope. Guess what. No.319861 File: ff4ca4ffd69a2d5⋯.jpg (398.93 KB, 980x3400, 49:170, thiccfags.jpg) >>319848 Probably dunno, most licensed EUs seem like a total clusterfuck from what I've seen secondhand on wikis and in RPGs, but I've never read more than one or two tie-in novels for any given thing. At best, it's usually just like "Huh, this is actually a pretty interesting hard SF plot, with some pretty fascinating concepts and characters, such a shame IT'S A COMPLETE DIVERGENCE IN TONE FROM STAR WARS' SPACE NINJA FANTASY ADVENTURE SETTING AND CARTOONISH CHARACTERS", they come across to me as a complete waste of both talent on the writers' part, and potential on the licensed properties' part, just like 99% of even good movies licensed from books other media. >>319850 Ursela K. LeGuinn, Anne McCaffrey, Margaret Atwood… And, to be fair, some male right-wing specimens like John Norman. As for transhumanism in all its fetishism, I think that came a bit slower, so that it only really emerged with post-cyberpunk like Neal Stephenson. And to be clear, by "fetish", I don't just mean sex (though that's usually at the root of it). See, originally the main attraction for genre fiction was the high concepts of the thing as a whole package: Worldbuilding, technology, mechanics, speculation, new kinds of characters that can't exist, strange stories that can't happen, all wrapped up together. And this produced a certain type of author, as for instance Asimov was an actual scientist/engineer, and Tolkien was an actual scholar of history/myth/language/etc. But then around the 1960s, fiction in general started being allowed (and often, expected) to feature more explicit sex and violence. At first this didn't really hurt anything, since many authors that turned out to be giant perverts (Arthur C. Clarke, Larry Niven, Philip José Farmer, Harlan Ellison…) were also already good authors with an expert knowledge of their subject matter, so they still wrote actual genre fiction, just that happened to pander more openly to their kinks. By the 1970s, this had attracted the attention of perverts, fanatics, and freaks of all kinds. Because, they realized, why write watersports reverse anal vore inflation fantasies, or maundering about how great it would be if people spontaneously swapped races every year, as plotless throwaway pamphlets, if you can wrap them in magitech trappings and make a "realistic" story to sell in the fiction market? It was a breakthrough, and genre fiction was to be the vehicle for it. Instead of coming to read an SF/fantasy/etc story that just happened to have teleconferencing cyberdick orgies/an entire society of magical dragon loli futas/etc, they used the genre fiction trappings as an excuse to write stories about all their demented fantasies. By the late 1980s, this had reached the point where barely disguised USENET porn fics, alternate history ego trips, and agitprop screeds, were being trotted around as genre fiction. Now, it's common to see this stuff with no genre trappings beyond "suddenly, sentient flying rape dolphins, because magic/science/"magical realism", sold alongside actual SF, fantasy, and the like. No.319903 File: e4d7686c957021a⋯.png (42.21 KB, 494x560, 247:280, Untitled.png) You thought Alesha, Who Smiles At (cis) Death was just a writer extending a little too far, did you? Then the gay interracial commander duo? Just a coincidence goy No.319904 >>318220 DID SOMEONE SAY FATAL? No.319910 No.319929 >>319903 >Then the gay interracial commander duo? The what now? No.319964 File: 7f5f0445d08f3a3⋯.jpg (40.55 KB, 265x370, 53:74, Kynaios-and-Tiro-of-Meleti….jpg) >>319929 I bet you thought I was making shit up. No.319996 File: 67614352a1cd743⋯.gif (Spoiler Image, 546.21 KB, 255x255, 1:1, 1465936235423.gif) >>319964 >WotC saying that grouphug is for faggots >not a good thing No.320011 >>319964 So are they canon faggots or is it your headcannon? No.320018 >>320011 >"headcannon" Wasn't fanon a good enough word? Who came up with this junk? No.320024 >>318236 the big problem is #Gamers4Her types INFEST the actual publisher and designer ranks unfortunately. WOTC is pozzed as fuck No.320037 File: 4885bf3e94bb26a⋯.jpg (59.09 KB, 600x800, 3:4, 1463137637323.jpg) >>320024 It's a symptom of a lot of these businesses first growing during the rise of the internet and the ones that started earlier replacing their employees over time. Tends to be a lot of left-leaning types, kind of like how all these tech startups, your googles and facebooks, were pretty into the least egregious kind of lefty shit. The issue is that the source of power for the left, young people, have been delving deeper and deeper into bullshit ideology territory. There's this whole deprecating spiral where each generation ends up more insane and radicalized than the last, because their never-ending social engineering agenda still hasn't made the world a utopia, so they have to be even more insane and radical the next time around. This feeds back into tech companies and socially-left-leaning corporate culture. it forces these people whose politics started as "live and let live" to forcefully adopt the seemingly acceptable ideologies being pushed by insane college students and literal communists. Because these companies are insular groups, you end up with groupthink. They don't want to be sexists or bigots, so they use their company to whinge about feminism and BLM. They don't want to be labeled as alt-right white male terrorists, so they hire a ton of pajeets and use their official twitters to snark at Trump. And then, eventually, they become so out of touch with reality that they just don't even understand that what they are doing makes them look like idiots and damages their company and their credibility. Recent example: Youtube flew out a ton of big name 'right wing' youtubers who were pissed off by this adpocalypse thing, because youtube realized that most of the world doesn't like the Young Turks or Buzzfeed. Recently they put up some "refugee" virtue signalling video on their official youtube channel and it got pass thumbs down'd so quickly that they replaced the feature and hid away the video. At this meeting with the various right-wing types, they were constantly going on about things being problematic and wanting to be inclusive, and they didn't understand at all why they were being laughed at. They apparently had a little coffee bar with all kinds of fruity "exotic" blends and all kinds of soy and almond and rice milk.. but no actual milk. They started talking about their featured content and one guy called them out and asked why the fuck they were featuring content like a buzzfeed video about women painting with their menstrual blood. Their solution to all the demonetizing and false copyright claims was to tell news bloggers not to use clips and to be more like the makeup vloggers. These people try so hard to be in touch with the world that they fuck it up and end up in a bubble, and then the only people allowed in their bubbles are people who think and act exactly like them. It's part infestation, part ideological degradation after decades of slow drip kool-aid poisoning. First they become pozzed and then the only people they will work with have to be pozzed as well, and then they end up surrounded by hostile allies who would proverbially slit their throat in a moment if they tried to backtrack even a little on this insane shit. No.320041 >>318220 >This is less about politics and more about me being tired of these kinds of people ruining things I enjoy. Welcome to gamergate. That's GG's entire beef with these things. No.320069 >>320037 To be fair, this is the exact same thing that happens on the right, in fact it's practically expected with conservatism more insular nature. No.320070 File: 8b3e619127e8ef4⋯.jpg (246.12 KB, 800x616, 100:77, BADD-cover.jpg) File: 03f7844876bd028⋯.jpg (65.64 KB, 552x364, 138:91, tilting_windmills.jpg) >>320037 I think that's related to the fact that the gaming industry grew up with a tradition of being a "subversive", "repressed" force in culture, against genuine censorship from moralizing busybodies on the right. Sometime during the Dubya years, though, Kikestian fundies lost interest in harassing popculture like games, and also become less of a force in broader right-wing politics as culturally indifferent Randroids and their ilk gained momentum. Now, gamers and leftists continue to desire or even believe they're being countercultural, and live up to their legacy of fighting against "the man". But of course there is no grand populist struggle in the cultural sphere anymore, so their flailing attempt to find and rage against an enemy, ANY enemy, has turned them into a mirror image of the people they once fought. No.320072 >>320069 >To be fair, this is the exact same thing that happens on the right, in fact it's practically expected with conservatism more insular nature. That's not even remotely true on either point. No.320074 >>320070 >I think that's related to the fact that the gaming industry grew up with a tradition of being a "subversive", "repressed" force in culture, against genuine censorship from moralizing busybodies on the right. Exactly, hence my stipulation that /tg/ has always leaned more inclusively than not. >>320072 >That's not even remotely true on either point. Which? That the right often forms its own echo chambers or that conservatism is naturally insular? No.320076 >>320070 > Kikestian fundies lost interest in harassing popculture like games, and also become less of a force in broader right-wing politics as culturally indifferent Randroids and their ilk gained momentum The whole issue behind D&D and other games was that a very small set of reactionary fundamentalists created a large amount of hype, and the majority of people fell for it. However, those people didn't actually have any real backing or political power. The whole "satanism" debacle fell away quite rapidly when things such as Gary Gygax actually being a Christian came to light, and with the internet coming to replace television, it became much easier to spread the truth of the matter. Of course, saying "debacle" means very little, since it was a very small number that actually cared. Most people didn't particularly care one way or another, as it was just something that they sometimes heard in the news, if at all. Further, the methods were quite different. Companies like TSR made changes to what they were doing as a reaction, but the fundamentalist groups never wanted to make alterations. Nor did all but the most extreme claim for banning - they wished for boycotting, and simply not buying the product. That is an extreme difference from the leftists of today, who actively seek for censorship and making changes to products. With the fundamentalists, while undesirable things would be looked upon with scorn, they would still exist as small communities. The progressives, on the other hand, advocate a form of cancerous "tolerance" which requires everything to be encompassed under it. A game that 1000 people will slightly enjoy and then toss aside, is better than one that 100 people will greatly enjoy and make a hobby out of. Which leads to: >>320074 > That the right often forms its own echo chambers or that conservatism is naturally insular? In many ways, I think this oversimplifies matters too much. The true difference, at its base level, comes from that between nationalist (the reactionary) and globalist (the progressive) mindsets. Extreme organizations will, of course, form their own communities. But that's not a matter of politics - it's a matter of the far wings of anything. Stepping beyond that, it's a matter of human nature to go to where people "like you" can be found. And that is the basis from which extreme right-wing though comes from: that everyone is different, and likes people like them, so we should find peace by separating them. Extreme left-wing thoughts instead advocates that we are all the same (and yet also different!) and so we should all live together (but we can have safe-spaces based on differences!) and we must live in peace (and take care of anyone that thinks otherwise!). It's a blend of contradictions that is intolerant in its tolerance. You can say that the right does the same thing as the left, but that's only if you don't probe it. Liberals and conservatives both eat, and breathe, and drink. They are bipeds, they are capable of speech, they have aspirations. But they are different nevertheless. Do closed communities form? Yes. The difference is, conservatives are happy enough to let other closed communities exist; and in that regard, you are correct about the naturally "insular" nature. However, the left, given the choice, does not wish to develop its community; it wishes to bring every other one under itself. And that is a far more terrifying prospect. No.320078 >>320070 >Now, gamers and leftists continue to desire or even believe they're being countercultural I don't care about any of the shit you're writing about, I just want to play vidya gaems. No.320079 >>320078 Too bad for you. Video games are a social construct and should be done away with. No.320082 >>320076 >However, those people didn't actually have any real backing or political power. Millions of kids during the '80s & early '90s were subject to insane parents who thought D&D, comic books, heavy metal music, and squaredancing were inherently sinsful. Heck, remember the freakouts over Goosebumps novels in the late '90s, or Harry Potter in the early 2000s? The flip from insane rightists to insane leftists being the biggest threat to artistic freedom is very recent, probably lining up with the iPhone/Facebook contagion of 2007. >nationalist (the reactionary) and globalist (the progressive) mindsets >And that is the basis from which extreme right-wing though comes from: that everyone is different, and likes people like them, so we should find peace by separating them You realize these people are called EVANGELICALS for a reason, right? They want to sweep over the entire world, force everyone under their One True Religion™, and stamp out all thoughts of rebellion. Them and the muzzies they fret over are cut from the same cloth. The fact that they are so completely irrelevant today is the one thing that makes their existence tolerable for normal people. No.320087 >>320082 Protestantism was a mistake. No.320095 >>320082 >The flip from insane rightists to insane leftists being the biggest threat to artistic freedom is very recent, probably lining up with the iPhone/Facebook contagion of 2007. Clearly the only sane action is to go EVEN FURTHER INSANE!!! >You realize these people are called EVANGELICALS for a reason, right? They want to sweep over the entire world, force everyone under their One True Religion™, and stamp out all thoughts of rebellion. Them and the muzzies they fret over are cut from the same cloth. The fact that they are so completely irrelevant today is the one thing that makes their existence tolerable for normal people. Indeed, just because nationalist want to keep to their own doesn't mean they don't want to stamp out every other motherfucker… This is why the left has become so accepted as the default; Wanting to reach out and understand is an easier sell than being insular and lashing out. No.320097 >>320082 >The flip from insane rightists to insane leftists being the biggest threat to artistic freedom is very recent, probably lining up with the iPhone/Facebook contagion of 2007. I'd say it lines up with liberals being in power, making leftists the side that is accepted as correct and "good" by the establishment. I'd say this happened with the change in leadership from Bush to Obama. I ain't saying this is the case for everyone but it seems like most leftist in charge are the same sort of no fun allowed as the conservatives a decade ago while many rightists have a certain "fuck you society" feel about them like punk kids in the past. It's like everyone just switched their clothes, wouldn't be suprised if the same switch happens again under a conservative goverment. No.320098 YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play. >>320095 > Wanting to reach out and understand >reaching out and understanding >by taking everything with savior complex and own prejudice with the ultimate goal of making everyone the same. Kill yourself. No.320099 >>320097 >I ain't saying this is the case for everyone but it seems like most leftist in charge are the same sort of no fun allowed as the conservatives a decade ago while many rightists have a certain "fuck you society" feel about them like punk kids in the past. It's like everyone just switched their clothes, wouldn't be suprised if the same switch happens again under a conservative goverment. It's sort of a generational sort of deal; Kids growing up under one type lean towards the other, thus their kids in turn flip it back around. No.320100 >>320097 There's something especially dangerous about this swing of the pendulum, though, sort of an immune versus auto-immune type disease. Before, the censors and moralizers were recognized as "outsiders", because art had been somewhat associated with leftists for so many centuries, and as a result anyone who sought to repress artistic freedom (even if they had sprung from leftism) was usually tarred as a right-winger and attacked. Now, however, the puritanical zealots have somehow managed to invert the IFF mechanisms of the art/geek/counterculture subculture, and operate INSIDE what used to be art's defense mechanisms (EFF, FAIR, etc.) as an internal contagion. An unprecedented purge will be necessary to set things right, and unify art in its own defense once more. No.320104 >>320100 >art has been somewhat associated with leftists for so many centuries Cool history revisionism, guess Creation of Man, Tower of Babel, Saint Peter's basillica were all leftist art (^: No.320106 >>320082 >Millions of kids during the '80s & early '90s were subject to insane parents who thought D&D The satanic panic wasn't too different from the controversies of today. It was the media giving an insanely vocal minority much more power and attention than it deserved. Most did not have their stuff burned. Just as most people were not hippies in the 60s. Just as much people today are not hipsters. No.320109 >>320104 They're the equivalent of Muslim artists struggling against religious strictures by channeling creativity into anything that is still permitted, like elaborate patterns on rugs and tilework squeaking around the prohibition on iconography. No.320113 >>320109 What are you talking about? Artists didn't do it for free, and if the Church pays, you're going to paint religious subjects. There's no prohibition against secular art that you can compare to Islamic aniconism. No.320115 File: cb4df64df8218b5⋯.png (1.53 MB, 1784x928, 223:116, 416135615134434.png) Imagine tipping your fedora so hard that you literally started trying to revise history using the words of a few modern idiots that most people don't take seriously as the basis of your argument. No.320127 File: 98e8a9f0d917f2c⋯.jpg (22.27 KB, 458x643, 458:643, 1474066410314.jpg) >>320037 >It's a symptom of a lot of these businesses first growing during the rise of the internet and the ones that started earlier replacing their employees over time. >They don't want to be labeled as alt-right white male terrorists, so they hire a ton of pajeets and use their official twitters to snark at Trump. You are completely missing the point of why tech companies in particular are being so vocal and outspoken about "Corporate Diversity". Companies exist to make money. Tech companies exist to make money, by hiring skilled engineers to design and produce technologically advanced products, which the companies then sell. Historically, some of the largest and most profitable tech companies of the past 60 years have been based in America, and have made their products by hiring skilled white straight male American engineers. Skilled white straight male American engineers are expensive. Unskilled white straight male American engineers are cheaper. Unskilled brown straight male Indian engineers are cheaper. Hence, the universal push for "Corporate Diversity" across the board, in all tech companies. It's the propaganda mask for replacing expensive American labor with cheaper offshored labor. Now, all high-paid American workers with entirely legitimate complaints about offshoring can be painted with the same "racist" or "xenophobic" brush. A simple propaganda strategy that has proven very effective at silencing criticism for the past 30 years of full-bore offshoring of tech jobs in America. No.320128 >>320106 The Satanic "Panic" was rooted in truth, though. No.320129 >>320127 There's definitely a financial element involved. I've seen lefty-types try and argue that illegal immigration is great, because no americans are willing to work 80+ hours a week for2/hr with no benefits, vacation, job security, or insurance, therefore it's great that our entire economic system is broken! Same general idea for these tech companies that just brute force their way through things by having as many low-pay H1B1 Visa employees as possible.

So, when it comes to these companies losing their shit from the idea over expired visa employees getting the boot, it is partly rooted in greed. However, there is an undeniable trend of trying to put as many women and non-whites front and center as possible, because there are people in control of these companies who actually do drink the kool-aid and believe that the only way they can make things better is by giving BLM money and a platform, campaigning for feminism, and attacking the straight cishet white devil whenever possible.

>>320128

What? That games and heavy metal are actually Satanic, or that albums and books were actually burned? Because I'm not saying that it didn't happen, just that it wasn't "millions of kids" who experienced it. There were a couple book burnings and a small uproar, but not unlike every new hashtag movement, the actual scope of people affected and involved could only be generously numbered in the thousands.

No.320135

>>320127

Even better, most white collar "immigration" like H-1B doesn't actually immigrate the way blue collar labor does. Instead, the vast majority of such visas are claimed by bodyshop contractors, who send in an "immigrant", get the job (and training in it from the American they replace), then go straight back overseas, job and all.

>>320128

So you're a pizzagater or whatever? You believe all the hysteria in the 1980s about secret rings of satanists at every level of society kidnapping and ritually sacrificing the widdle chilluns? You believe the recovered memory and facilitated testimony? You believe what was in every way other than left/right alignment identical to the modern SJW hysterics over rape culture and institutional racism, and (seriously, look up "ominous alliance") was in many ways a direct antecedent to it?

>>320129

I'm not saying millions of kids had their stuff burnt (I don't think that many families were such super fundies even then), but I am saying they were forbidden from doing such hobbies due to slander promulgated by their pastors.

No.320137

>>320135

Another anon, or you perhaps, said it was millions:

>Millions of kids during the '80s & early '90s were subject to insane parents who thought D&D, comic books, heavy metal music, and squaredancing were inherently sinsful.

It still wasn't millions, because D&D still sold insanely well for it's time, albums still flew off the shelves, and comics were still popular. Still not affected.

Also, Pizzagate is true in ways you clearly don't realize. There have been pedophile politicians for centuries now. The fact that you can even be incredulous about the idea that there's a ring of powerful people passing around children for molestation is laughable. Go look up Jeffrey Epstein and his orgy island, and then realize that the Clintons took dozens of flights and trips with that kiddy diddler, many to his private island even though his reputation as a disgusting degenerate was well known.

In most cases, it's not even "if" they've done or been involved in this shit, but when it will be revealed or what lengths they'll go to shut down any investigation. It's the same as it's ever been.

No.320139

>>320137

Oh, I agree things resembling the (unfounded and fantastical) pizzagate accusations do happen, and have actually been confirmed, like Jimmy Savile and the BBC in the UK. But you have to remember what I'm talking about in the 1980s Satanic Panic, THEIR allegations were that cannibalistic pedophile etc etc Satanist cults existed in every neighborhood, every school, every local government, every business and club, reaching from heads of state and CEOs down your local street corner and possibly your own spouse, all linked together in a giant global conspiracy reaching back thousands of years, covered up by suppressed childhood memories among the MAJORITY of the population.

Much like modern feminazis, they were completely, utterly bonkers.

No.320143

>>320139

The two aren't similar at all, though. If your point is that two groups are concerned that something bad is happening under their noses, that's about where things end. The pizzagate stuff originally started because someone picked up on a ton of red flags that were, by the FBI and CIA's own guidelines, confirmed, well-known, widely used symbols and terminology used only by pedophiles and child traffickers. Further digging turned up a variety of likewise troubling facts that did little to dispel the idea that the people involved in this conspicuous ring of pizza places frequented largely by celebrities and politicians had ties to shady shit.

If you don't care about this shit or think it's not worth pursuing, that's fine.. Just don't bother shooting your mouth off about it like you've got all the facts when you can't even accurately describe what the thing is.

No.320149

>>320143

Pizzagate was a meme largely confined to imageboards and wacky conspiratard communities online, playing internets detective based off wild extrapolations. A phenomenon of similar scope among fundies was the "bible code" millenarian lunatics who used esoteric "clues" "hidden" in the bible's grammar/numerology/kerning/etc to make predictions about the day of reckoning on y2k.

The Satanic Panic was a far more widespread phenomenon based around personal anecdotes, cultivated by a network of IRL fanatics at fundie (especially Baptist) gatherings that would whip each other into a furor of insanity.

No.320154

>>318242

What's up with Wil Wheton? Where did he go wrong? Does anybody have any idea what could have happened to him to turn him into such an unlikable person?

No.320161

>>320143

>red flags that were, by the FBI and CIA's own guidelines, confirmed, well-known, widely used symbols and terminology used only by pedophiles and child traffickers

Isn't it possible for the CIA to be wrong, though?

More importantly, if the symbols and terminology are truly used only by pedophiles and pedophile suppliers, why hasn't a major bust been made?

Even if the top levels of the CIA are in on it, surely the information would end up in the hands of someone who had both law enforcement authority and an attitude of public servitude, especially since said information has been published here.

>>320154

He played a shitty character on Star Trek, and it's been downhill ever since.

No.320170

>>318235

>says "Deus Vult" as if serious

>"Our God was not a reasonable God."

>implying anyone who would say "Deus Vult" with full intent would even think that

Roleplayers should at least get it right.

No.320171

>>320170

Could be worse, at least he was actually roleplaying in a game. "Always throw the first stone, freely judge everyone and lie about your own life" seems to be standard procedure for most christian-LARPers on the web.

No.320172

>>320154

He was a sort of side character in Star Trek and struggled for relevancy ever since. I think his character in Eureka was his best performance because it portrayed him personally so well. No one I talk to about him understand how much of a creep and a latch on to nerd culture he is. I feel a total lack of sincerity from him over being in the role playing/board game culture. He doesn't even produce anything of value instead just is a pretentious asshole who alienates the people he is suppose to empathize with.

No.320187

>>320172

What of Vin Diesel then?

No.320188

File: 928617b2e70b51d⋯.jpg (372.33 KB, 760x737, 760:737, 1498061309802.jpg)

>>320154

>Where did he go wrong?

>What's up with Wil Wheton? Where did he go wrong?

Wil Wheaton, huh. Let me tell you about Wil Wheaton.

A few years back, me and a few of my gamer buddies went to Blizzcon, one of the premier gaming events of the year. It just so happened Mr. Wil Wheaton was the headlining celebrity speaker for the event. So we roll in there, hyped as hell from all the awesome Blizzard and gaming con events, the launch of Overwatch and Legion, to go see Wil Wheaton give his headlining speech.

In front of an absolutely packed audience of rabid hardcore gamers, all of whom had paid several hundred dollars and fought for tickets to be there, Mr. Wil Wheaton gave an entirely forgettable, essentially ad-libbed performance. As I recall, he started off by saying he hadn't played any actual video games since Diablo 1, and it all went downhill from there. There were no jokes, gaming-related or otherwise. There was no entertainment. He spent the entire time meandering aimlessly from one pointless bizarre uninformed statement to the next. Just about the only thing I remember definitively about it after the fact was the firm belief that I could have given a solidly better performance for that crowd than Wil did, and certainly a better prepared one.

No.320191

>>320154

>>320172

>>320188

When you look into Wheaton's work history and what he's been doing since Star Trek, you'll find that every few years he reinvents himself with a new persona that's 150% all about some new thing. In every instance, including his current board game persona, he rode it out until it stopped making him relevant and then jumped ship to something else.

He was Wil Wheaton the tech evangelist, who was all about this new video editing product, and then he was Wil Wheaton the voice actor, and then he became Wil Wheaton 'the nerd king' when he said "don't be a dick" at PAX (he then proceeded to be a dick for the rest of his life), and just when he was fading in obscurity, only working bit parts as a mockery of himself, he reinvented his persona as Wil Wheaton, the Board Game Evangelist!

Hilariously enough, he almost botched that entirely by fucking up in a big way for almost every game he played on Felicia Day's unusually well-funded youtube channel/business. After being called out on it so many times, he sperged out online, claimed he was too busy to learn the rules because that's what producers are for, and then threw his producer under the bus. Even his fanboys were put off by this.

No.320192

>>320187

Got anything more to say? I only know that he played DnD when he was younger and still does so whenever he get's the chance.

No.320193

>>320187

>>320192

As far as anyone knows, Vin's love of D&D is sincere, mostly because he doesn't mention it at all times and try to get himself invited to special events and conventions so he can get his ego stroked.

No.320198

I don't know if the masses will ever wake up to it, but there is a agenda being pushed and it's goal is to infiltrate and corrupt EVERYTHING it touches that is a community. And it's a form of communism. It's spreading to every hobby that it can.

You can't stop it with half hearted measures of either ignoring it or "move away and play older rpgs".

I'm not gonna try and shoehorn my own ideology here because that's pointless and annoying, but it'll only get worse and worse until people take an active stand against it.

No.320199

>>320193

A quiet man can be a humbler man, I guess.

No.320221

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

>>320188

>He spent the entire time meandering aimlessly from one pointless bizarre uninformed statement to the next.

Was it at least quite hypnotic?

>>320193

>Vin's love of D&D is sincere, mostly because he doesn't mention it at all times and try to get himself invited to special events and conventions so he can get his ego stroked.

Well isn't Riddick basically his Drow Character?

No.320232

>>320221

Yes, the Riddick films (especially Pitch Black) are pretty much Drow fanfiction IN SPACE.

Also, from what I've heard he once played a campaign that was DMed by Dame Judi Dench.

No.320233

File: 2b60c1c50a7c154⋯.png (144.58 KB, 883x318, 883:318, stand your ground.png)

Reminder.

No.320237

>>320233

>we tried keeping politics out by letting politics in and it didn't work

Unbelievable.

No.320240

>>320082

>Millions of kids during the '80s & early '90s were subject to insane parents who thought D&D, comic books, heavy metal music, and squaredancing were inherently sinsful. Heck, remember the freakouts over Goosebumps novels in the late '90s, or Harry Potter in the early 2000s?

Notice how these panics didn't affect how these things were made because the creators recognized the attackers as hostile outsiders who ought to be ignored or fought, not appeased. (Comic books did get fucked over by moral panics, but that was decades earlier than the period you're talking about).

>>320087

The English Dissenters and their Puritan descendants in America were a mistake. Martin Luther did nothing wrong.

No.320241

>>320233

Unfortunately, many people are very bad at articulating their actual meaning because they also aren't good at grasping what the problem is. Just that there's a problem.

So, many people mistakenly say, "Keep your politics out of our hobbies!" when what they should be saying is, "Your politics are utter shit that have failed in every country they've been forced on, and you're trying to force people to accept your bullshit ideology which is rooted in ignorant fantasy and insane delusion. Nothing you want us to accept is reasonable or rational. Fuck off forever, you cancerous, subhuman faggots."

Politics are fine. Matters of policy and methods of governance, how to handle application of the law, and so on.. These are things that have a place in certain topics of discussion. However, the kind of "politics" that the inarticulate masses reject are not simply a different matter of opinion. They are something that people rightfully reject as a gut reaction because they are degenerate in the truest sense of the word. They regress and destroy the things they are applied to, allowing evil people to seize power and leave ruin and misery in their wake.

If you want an example that hits close to home: The pink-haired indie clique insisting that video games need to be about social issues (most of which are exaggerated or based on outright lies) or that they need to be 'narrative experiences' instead of being about gameplay. Kool-aid chugging comic writers who think superhero comics need to be about quirky hipsters sitting around at coffee shops gossiping instead of being able heroes saying the world from villains.

All of these people used their bullshit victim narrative and the widespread ideological corruption of academia to demand that they be allowed to take over and make the world a better place by spreading their ideology into new mediums and hobbies.. and what do they do? They corrupt and destroy everything they touch and they only thing they have to show for it is the approval of a bunch of shrieking harpies on social media taking joy from the idea that their awful ideology has corrupted and ruined something that a nebulous group of perceived enemies once enjoyed. They aren't happy that there's something they should enjoy, but happy that they've ruined something in the name of their aimless agenda.

No.320245

>>320237

This tbqh

No.320249

>>320240

>Comic books did get fucked over by moral panics, but that was decades earlier than the period you're talking about

That time was different, because they actually managed to get laws passed, and keep them on the books for decades. By the time the CCA fell apart, comics in the US had been hollowed out like a rotten tree. Now the US is unique in the entire world for having essentially no comics industry nor readership.

>>320241

No, politics are poison. And by that I don't mean making art that happens to be about politics, but the idea (pushed frequently by both sides) that there is anything inherently political about art, or about particular media of artistic expression.

No.320257

>>320249

>That time was different, because they actually managed to get laws passed, and keep them on the books for decades

This is not true. The Comics Code did not have the force of law, publishers followed it voluntarily. The CCA was formed as a response to the threat of government regulation, but no such laws were ever passed.

No.320265

>>320249

> but the idea (pushed frequently by both sides) that there is anything inherently political about art, or about particular media of artistic expression

Confirmed for not having had the misfortune to sit through an art history class.

You can deny it as much as you want, but virtually all art throughout history has been either political or religious in nature. You can claim all you want that this is only because the Church was paying, but religious art has existed longer than the concept of organized religion, and has continued into modernity even without it being the sole flow of income.

In contrast, artists throughout history have constantly "challenged" the established norm of the art of the time. Some of these movements have failed utterly, while others have ended up becoming the new norm sometimes decades after they were initially started. For most of history, the art in question has been created either to glorify the current situation, or to condemn it in some way, through the use of criticism. This is the whole reason for art analysis existing - as a way to see what was being considered. It would be hyperbole to claim that there existed nothing for pleasure, but the vast majority either falls into the religious/political arenas (even if those are the politics of artists, rather than of nations), or into the realm of commissions from wealthy patrons - portraits and the like.

In the grand scheme of things, the idea of making art for other purposes (capturing light or images, etc.) really didn't take off until rather recently. Unfortunately, it also led to the birth of a more disastrous idea, which came about primarily as a reaction to the photograph - the ridiculous notion that new technology would render skillful artists obsolete. The result of that was the "art for art's sake" concept, which gave birth to modern artwork that has absolute no subject matter, and is just colors or patterns. The irony of this is that the claim is in and of itself a political one; more than that, it has led to a complete lack of talent in many modern "artists" of note, while people with actual skills get left by the wayside, typically winding up as concept artists or drawing weebshit instead of finding patrons and getting hung up in museums, while the dying scrawls of 5 year olds are hung proudly for the sake of a Jewish money laundering scheme.

No.320269

File: 3f3059fecc6152e⋯.jpg (69.26 KB, 960x720, 4:3, slide_10.jpg)

File: 298105d41f6d143⋯.jpg (385.52 KB, 1246x2714, 623:1357, regular people vs christia….jpg)

>>320265

Much of the symbolism (especially religious symbolism) imposed on pre-historic art is blatantly absurd, the result of pretentious blowhards attempting to inject exoticism into a subject in the easiest way possible for a modernist secular audience, ignoring the fact this was the result of everyday life for schlubs essentially like us. And as for art that is explicitly religious, the majority of it has in fact always been secular art (decorative motifs on artisinal household goods, satirical plays, romantic poetry, drinking shanties, etc.) clumsily repurposed by the church. As for art made on the church's dime, like today's corporate advertising (or the art commissioned by noble individuals to flatter their egos), much of its appeal came from what genuine inspiration the artist was able to subversively insert under their fat cat patron's nose, rather than its officially commissioned "message".

Regarding "L'art pour l'art" in particular, your impression of the idea's history is astonishingly backward. The idea of pure art was one of liberation from meaning or ideology so that its pure beauty and creativity would be the focus, utterly contrary to the meaningless unartistic scribbles accompanied in every gallery by pretentious statements from the "artist" on its "true" "meaning".

Indeed, "art for art's sake" was widely decried by the pretentious as a "fascist idea" at the time.

No.320277

>>320269

Complete bullshit: the post.

Every line is wrong. I'm impressed. Leftypol?

No.320286

File: 75f3021fd5c269e⋯.gif (1013.82 KB, 500x373, 500:373, 75f3021fd5c269ee65faac1f72….gif)

>>320269

Confirmed for actually understanding nothing at all about history. I'm impressed. This is below high school level.

It's pointless arguing with people that actually fabricate facts, so I guess that's it for now.

No.320290

>>320269

>most art was secular back "then" and thus had to subsist on its technical qualities alone

>but when it became secular its technical merits became more important

No.320291

>>320277

>>320286

I'm not him, but I also don't really know anything about the history of art. Why is he wrong?

No.320301

>>320291

He's a radical anti-theist projecting his views into the minds of 100,000 years of human artwork because mommy made him go to Church. This stems principally from the fact that he's attempting to create a divide between the secular and the spiritual which is a very modern invention, forgetting that in the past, the historical, religious, and mythological concepts crossed over a lot more.

Of course, you can't really blame him. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. For every fundamentalist that believes the Earth was formed in 7 days about 5000 years ago, you have another illiterate who fell for the bullshit he learned in 3rd Grade History that the vast majority of people thought the earth was flat until GLORIOUS ENLIGHTENMENT rescued them from lying priests.

Returning to the heart of the matter - His understanding of art is stained by an understanding devoid of historical basis. It's like a person living in a post-scarcity society trying to reason why a person would kill a man over food without first understanding scarcity. He may come up with great philosophical reasoning about it, and become a published author, detailing how much greater hunger was in the "old world" and how enlightened men of modernity can resist it. No, rather, it's more as if he was aware of scarcity, but intentionally chose to claim that it was never a true thing, and that the Earth was always so bountiful in resources as to make it a joke in explaining behavior.

No.320303

File: 52f48e99c3d9ddd⋯.jpg (608.75 KB, 600x868, 150:217, venus-of-willendorf.jpg)

>>320301

No, I'm merely someone utterly exasperated when I go to an archeological exposition, and every single artifact is labeled as a ritual item, every statuette or scribble is labeled as some sort of god or goddess, everyone from before the modern era is portrayed as living 24/7 in a schizoid fog of mystical submersion away from the world around them.

No.320306

>>320303

In that regard, you're not wrong. There always has been art that was simply made for entertainment purposes alone. But your presentation, rather than giving off that sense, presents a world wherein the vast majority of artists were repressed secularists when history just doesn't support that.

I do agree on this point:

> as living 24/7 in a schizoid fog of mystical submersion away from the world around them.

But perhaps for a different reason. In every age, in every time, people have considered themselves reasonable, and learned men have always pursued after science. What separates much of that past from the modern age is that most people did not separate a "secular" world of science and rationality from a "religious" world of myths and miracles. The same applies to the arts and to literature. And this is something that goes even beyond individual religions - after all, it was Christians commissioning Christians that produced some of our most beautiful works depicting scenes of Classical mythology.

The people of the past weren't stupid. But they, for the most part, didn't see the world in the same way that most people do today. A large part of this, I imagine, stems from the fact that the philosophers of old often were also artists, scientists, historians, and figures with vested political interests. Consider something like the early histories of Britain depicting figures such as King Arthur, where history, myth, and political propaganda all come together, and become in the inspiration for future works of art.

No.320310

>>320306

My point isn't that they were always repressed secularists (though such was quite often the case when secularism arose, as in Classical Greece or Enlightenment Italy), but that the majority of art was made simply out of artistic whim and personal amusement.

Similarly to now, where in spite of being steeped in political ideology and hard economic obligations, which we are beholden to quite sincerely, artists primarily create for themselves.

This was even truer in the pre-industrial era, where everyday items were fashioned by the majority of people, meaning the opportunity to embellish them with artistic flourishes. And before mass produced art, when all forms of entertainment (music, stories, etc.) had to be performed by the common people, who cultivated such talents as a matter of course.

No.320331

File: f39c23822868b20⋯.jpg (40.15 KB, 720x479, 720:479, 2994837-175-its_magic.jpg)

>>319081

I think he means that the mind is still male somehow.

No.320332

>>319161

>you are an evil piece of scum.

Whatever you say fam.

No.320333

No.320334

No.320355

>>320334

<Exuse me (((what)))?

No.320505

File: c86e52b4dba3c86⋯.jpg (58.58 KB, 476x602, 34:43, 2b22f97d8861d907c4adf7988e….jpg)

>>319736

Okay, lets start with a simple wikipedia look up to find all the stuff you cherry picked away from

>parasitism is a non-mutual relationship between species

Note, between species. Even if you want to consider a embryo as a seperate organism (and a seperate organism that has human DNA would be a person which you actually need to fight against pretty strongly) they are not different species.

>Ticks that feed on chrows for exemple

Those are parasites.

You're confusing the definition with the word with something that supports your delusion. It's literally the surest sign of your agenda. Lets continue the break down

>non-mutual

Well actually babies give something back to the parent. If you want to break things down like an assmad assburger, if the embryo is a parasite a seperate organism that lives off the host, then you have to admit that reproduction, one of the core functions of life depends on this parasite. It's hard to give two damns about the motherhost when she was also a damn parasite (and many ways if you want to push an admitedly dumb analogy). Given that a core function of life depends on the parasite, it would be sensical to name it symbiotic (the mother givens nutrients but the baby continues the species providing value).

But then again, like you said. Considering the embryo as a person is dumb like you said. It's just a clump of cells doing a vital and important part of life , so we don't even have to consider its personhood. It can fall under the general prohibition against self-harm.

>Benign tumor

again, nothing like this because your a lying leftist. This tumor has a purpose that is vital to the survival of the species.

But hey, Im sure you know that the truth don't change no matter how much you butcher language, jargon or common sense.

No.320506

>>320505

You're still a nigger-triggered PC bitch, see >>319748 and note that the word historically has many applications

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/parasite

>1: a person who exploits the hospitality of the rich and earns welcome by flattery "sought to rid the palace of the parasites of his prosperity"

>2: an organism living in, with, or on another organism in parasitism "an intestinal parasite of humans" "a parasite that causes malaria"

>3: something that resembles a biological parasite in dependence on something else for existence or support without making a useful or adequate return "That city has become a parasite on the country."

No.320508

File: 2a07de713fbf45c⋯.mp4 (6.28 MB, 640x360, 16:9, 2a07de713fbf45cbe30d532076….mp4)

File: f0781a0d7706a22⋯.png (1.97 MB, 1748x2480, 437:620, LIZMERICAN.png)

>>320506

Talking Biology

>giving a shit about common usage.

Words have many meanings

>But that clump of cells in no way can be considered a person ever.

Yer a meanie

>I am, and everyday your miserable disrespect for truth, cunning, knowledge and common sense makes more like me. But hey, Ayn Rand would agree with you, I'm sure that's an unobjectionable win for you. I mean if you were talking about how the baby class was oppressing the prol mothers why even bring biological terms like parasite into it?

No.320516

File: c8f0b3799952250⋯.jpg (206.39 KB, 1214x1239, 1214:1239, Butthurt-o-Meter.jpg)

>>320508

<reddit spacing

<fucking up greentext

<generic reaction folder fodder

<still fussing over a bread & circuses-tier nonissue that only affects people too stupid to use birth control that shouldn't contribute to the gene pool in the first place

<not saging off-topic posts in a borderline off-topic thread

Stop while you're still aheadnot so far behind

No.320532

>>320516

<Ponychan-text

>>>/reddit/

No.320542

File: b0809891dc2d929⋯.png (527.43 KB, 497x732, 497:732, 200%_disgust.png)

>>320265

>Confirmed for not having had the misfortune to sit through an art history class.

<le "I'm edmucahtd u naht!!!1"

No.320544

>>320542

*to reiterate, because that was really what I meant tired

But

>[Current Year]

>taking and art history class

>not only taking such a class, but actually keeping what you were indoctrinated with "learned"

Honestly m8 that's about as dumb as /leftypol/ and /pol/ combined

No.320548

>>320544

>>320542

Let's clarify this mistake:

The keyword was "misfortune". It was a GE that I never would have taken if I had the choice. Nor is it a matter of education, since I'd have gone into a trade if it wasn't for a guaranteed post-university career path. But I pride myself on being able to do the best with a shitty situation, instead of bitching about it like half of the /pol/acks that go to college seem to do, or getting sucked into it like the retards on /leftypol/.

The class claimed to be art history but that was pretty much a farce for its true topic, which was, as you almost too likely put it, indoctrination. The main goal of the class is allegedly to teach you to look with a "critical eye" on the pretense of going through history, but that's about it. Of course, by "critical eye" the assumption is to look at it from a modern, liberal viewpoint. Something that any historian should be embarrassed by, if the history department wasn't equally as pozzed.

What did make it useful, however, was how enlightening it was on how the left perceives the world. And in terms of the facts and figures - which are much harder to lie or deceive about than the subjective aspects surrounding them - it was useful, albeit not "a full semester wasted" useful. Believe it or not, there were even a few useful techniques to be learned about framing and visuals, but it was all introductory film stuff that anyone with a camera should have learned in high school.

Point being, you can't just not learn because your teachers have an agenda. You isolate it from reality, take the facts, and figure out what you're being sold. The irony of this was that one of the first things they try to teach you is that "everyone has an agenda, now listen to us tell you about how this is bad" while blissfully ignorant (or not…) to the fact that they're only projecting their own point of view. It's the greatest hypocrisy to ask what agenda a man has in studying racial biology when you're trying to brainwash students into thinking it's only a social construct, eh?

No.320588

>>320240

>Martin Luther did nothing wrong

Martin Luther didn't think through what other people were going to do with his shit. Not really something you can hold him morally accountable for, but still rather unfortunate.

No.320595

>>320588

>Martin Luther didn't think through what other people were going to do with his shit

Perhaps the same could be said of all religions.

No.320601

>>320595

Martin Luther's biggest contribution was freeing Europe from the grip of the church as a political entity, finally crushing the last vestige of Roman imperial dominion. His religious doctrine was secondary.

No.320633

>>320191

Wheaton strikes me as a narcissist, dude is essentially Onision with more impulse control and intelligence.

Hopefully he, Felicia Day Who is, daily reminder, hitched to a man 30 years her senior and has a kid with him and all those other freaks who attached themselves to nuurd culture leave for greener pastures to wring shekels from.

No.320649

>>320595

Your words are as empty as your soul. Mankind ill needs a savior such as you.

No.320668

>>318222

>- Pathfinder again: a transgender Paladin sells his ancestral sword for a hormone potion that turns him into a woman… except for the Paladin's level the cost for this item is chump change AND a Girdle of Masculinity/Femininity does the same thing way easier, but they didn't go with this because FUCK YOU.

Aren't Pathfinder adventures self-published? That is, they're separate from the main publishing entity and don't necessarily need their blessing?

>- Pathfinder again: Asmodeus is the god of tyranny, hierarchy and generic Lawful Evil, just like how he was in 4e and in earlier versions as a non-deity… except in Pathfinder he's also the god of misogyny. Why? Because that's the only way they can make him evil enough.

As has been pointed out by numerous people in other threads, men are simply better at doing most jobs than women. This clearly plays into a hierarchical order of things: men tell their wives what do to, because they don't know how to do it properly themselves.

>>318220

>I've heard things in the past about Whitewolf incorporating 'triggers' into their World of Darkness game

That's kind of funny as well. Make a character full of triggers and claim you're just roleplaying. If they want you to leave, claim oppression

No.320697

>>320668

>playing with a group who would be offended by that sort of character in the first place

No.320703

>>320668

From what I can tell this is one of the official things.

As for the Asmodeus thing, you treat this from a somewhat logical point of view. You make the mistake that Paizo does the same thing instead of making him a misogynist just to show how eeeevil he is.

No.320704

>>320303

>No, I'm merely someone utterly exasperated when I go to an archeological exposition, and every single artifact is labeled as a ritual item,….

Not as exasperated as I am, when I see people talking about the history of art, when the concept of art that we think about and use today isn't older than the Renaissance.

Before that point in time "art" was just another generic word for "skill" or "craft", an artist was just merely a generic term for somebody who is skilled at his work and all those amazing objects that we have from those previous periods were done by people simply to get food on their table.

No.320709

>>320704

>classical greek fables of art so beautiful it evoked jealousy from the gods, and sculptures that drew such sympathy the gods deigned grant them life

> classical greek conception of the afterlife (as told to us by poets) has all souls washed blank, except for those lucky few literally plucked from the waters of oblivion by the immortal art of poetry

> classical greek utopian ideal of society (as told to us by philosophers) is an intellectual meritocracy presided over by infallible philosopher kings

I concur art was far more central to everyday life, and artistry to the average person, in ancient times. But to claim it wasn't esteemed for its own unique but practically useless qualities, and that exceptional artists weren't held apart (especially that they didn't distinguish themselves) from broader society, is is very much a bridge too far.

No.320935

File: 505914cbe20e8ad⋯.png (84.12 KB, 944x750, 472:375, Dildoes and Dragons.png)

I have a boyfriend and even I think this is getting way out of hand