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>Be me NEET for most of my life

>Bought D&D 5E books and figurines with my first paycheck

>Found roleplaying groups at my community college

>No one wants to play 5E

>Everyone wants to play 3.5, pathfinder and ironclaw

Why can’t I find a 5E group? Is 5E dying or something? Does it have a bad reputation like 4E?


You think you have it bad?

Try finding a group for AD&D.



>Try finding a group for AD&D.

Me and my dad use to play AD&D.



Ironclaw has no business being as good as it is. I’m happy it getting a wider fandom now.


>bought system made by sexist, racist guy who made system for women and blacks he deemed too stupid for a more complex game

>why does nobody want to play it



Didn’t 5th edition retcon elves as a gender neutral race?



Just the high elves. Dark elves are homophobic.



Worse, repeated trannies that randomly change between male and female.


A trove?


YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.


Iron claw a furry RPG that removed the HP system. It somehow ground a furry slighting.



homophobic women. the males are soyboys




Wait a minute. Did 5E dumb down Mechanics and shoehorn identity politics?




I'm looking through a 5e PH scan but don't see anything about gender neutral elves, where is it?



Try finding a group for Basic/BX/BECMI/RC D&D!


More pozzed than magic.


File: dc1f29bad1fdd6c⋯.jpg (50.73 KB, 400x477, 400:477, transelves.jpg)


Search for Corellon Larethian

>"You don't need to be confined to binary notions of sex and gender. The elf god Corellon Larethian is often seen as androgynous or hermaphroditic, for example, and some elves in the multiverse are made in in Corellon's image. You could also play a female character who presents herself as a man, a man who feels trapped in a female body, or a bearded female dwarf who hates being mistaken for a male. Likewise, your character's sexual orientation is for you to decide."


5th Edition was always about killing 4th and not at all about being its own thing.



It did, >>381579 is referring to a tweet in which Mike Mearls claimed that complex rules were a soggyknees conspiracy by the patriarchy to keep women out of tabletop. In doing so he inadvertently >implied that women didn't have the capacity to understand complex rules, and the left did its usual ouroboros thing.


File: e8d66cb57129989⋯.jpg (82.96 KB, 826x968, 413:484, drama queen.jpg)


> a man who feels trapped in a female body,

Does it give any advantages mechanically-wise?




>actual, honest to goodness ironclaw that isn't infested with furries

Tell me where you live so I can cuck you out of this group you clearly do not deserve.


Plus 4 STR.



>wanting to play 5E

>paying money for 5E

The world is doing you a favor.


File: 75d9a01e1d4ca39⋯.jpg (541.76 KB, 1280x960, 4:3, wotc_pride.jpg)



Your problem is that you bought into the game and jumped on it without 1) doing your fucking research, and 2) seeing if there was even anyone around to play with. 2 doesn't matter quite as much as 1, because you should pay attention to what the companies are doing and what kind of cancer they are spreading. Knowing that no one in your area was running or playing 5e games would have saved you a little money and trouble, at least.


File: 4224c456bf30971⋯.png (1.91 MB, 1263x2352, 421:784, She-Hulk_Portrait_Art.png)


Ok. Male in female form, here I go!



>Tell me where you live so I can cuck you out of this group you clearly do not deserve.

I am from Seattle.



None of those people look like they play tabletop games.



Every single one of them is a WotC employee. In what capacity, I have no idea, but these are the kind of people producing D&D and MtG right now.



Eugh, never mind.



I live in Seattle too and there is a very big 5E D&D community around. You are obviously aren't looking really hard. Still though it being Seattle and with WotC having their HQ in Redmond you are dealing with a lot of crazy leftists in groups. I keep my power levels hidden and it works out pretty ok. I play at Zulu's Board Game Cafe in Bothell where there is the organized play (which I'm part of) and a bunch of homebrew games. You can ask the employees about if there is any space in games at the moment and they could probably tell you the days games are happening.



So... nobody who actually plays tabletop games.



How can you stand living there? I can barely tolerate it for short bursts and not just because of the people, the roads are fucking impossible to drive on


5e is massively popular and the best version of the game ever made. If a sentence or two about inclusivity activates your hate-baby rage boner then just ignore that shit. Yes WotC has a bunch of progressive and LGBT people working on D&D now. So what? They want to sell books and expand the player base. D&D is a mass market product. I'm an old fucker and I've been playing RPGs since the 70s and I fucking love what is happening right now. If some particular thing seems too PC for my taste then I skip it. Big fucking deal.



Found our local redditor.

Popular =/= Good



It's a troll. Go look at /tv/ right now. 8ch is being raided.


Isn't 5h edition incredibly popular among casuals and a piece of trash?

I don't care about it anyway. I went to have fun with Savage Worlds instead.

How is the tileset though?**



Did Jackson start this bearded female dwarf shit? I fucking hate it either way. Female dwarfs are never seen because they're all holed up and protected in the impenetrable mountain halls, not in the mines or the hillocks, and definitely not in the guard regiments. The way I see it, females are as valuable as gold in dwarf culture, and like gold they protect them with utmost care.



Bearded female dwarves has been a joke for as long as dwarves existed. For some reason Dwarves and Goblins have this weird dynamic where they're half serious and half comedic.



Where have you been the past couple of years?



>5e is massively popular and the best version of the game ever made

Than why is pathfinder still destroying D&D?



>Go look at /tv/ right now.

Why the fuck would anyone do that?



I really like Zulu's. Went when visiting a friend in Seattle, is it a redone house or something? The patio area was nice.


>Everyone wants to play 3.5, pathfinder and ironclaw

That's some pretty good taste right there. Anyways OP, if you really have your heart set on 5E you could always join a group online, there's a ton of people jumping on that shitty bandwagon.


>Isn't 5h edition incredibly popular among casuals and a piece of trash?

Yes and yes.



I wasn't in the area before it was Zulu's but I heard the whole area got hit by a fire and burned down the original then the owner bought the land and built it into what it is now. They are actually reducing the patio space as they are going to make more area for inside as there just isn't enough space at the moment for all that goes on and they have to turn people away who want to play games since they cater to everyone. The patio space will be cut in half and they are going to expand out the back. It will kill the amount of parking space in the back though.



That's still okay, it's a top-tier shop. I wandered around while my buddy talked to the owners about advertising and their set up is /comfy/.

Nice quiet neighborhood despite being right off the road. Any other great stores around Seattle? I also went to Uncle's in Redmond and saw some other store/bar that was packed to the brim but I forget its name. Think it was in Ballard.



The anon you're asking that apparently assume that popularity of a game translates to "people actually play it". In reality, popularity, "sold copies" (and similar methods of measure "a success"), playability, reasonability/coherency of both the ruleset and the setting, actual usage and many other aspects relate to each other in wild, often surprising proportions.



>is 5e dying

One can only hope



Dark elves = incest






If I had a fucking job that had predictable hours I'd totally commute to seattle just for gaming. Jesus fuck.





5e is only trash in the same way that all DnD is trash. It's a skirmish combat game that desperately wants you to think that it's a narrative and exploration based role-playing game.


It's all been downhill since 2E.


File: 7912714675205a4⋯.jpg (36.11 KB, 450x495, 10:11, 337eb3352fa37f3c09258684cb….jpg)


>I'm an old fucker and I've been playing RPGs since the 70s and I fucking love what is happening right now.

No you're not. You're a college-aged adult pretending to be old because you think people care about your credentials in an anonymous image board. No 50+ year old says "hate-baby rage boner."


File: 33ea60b9bf66208⋯.jpg (103.23 KB, 1024x768, 4:3, IMG_20180702_004759.jpg)

So, any alternative to D&D 5E that isn't another edition of D&D (Pathfinder as well), isn't Furryshit, isn't Vargshit ans isn't Warhammershit?

I was thinking about something in line with the aesthetics of old shit, like Tower of Doom/Chronicles of Mystara, Record of Lodoss War, Secret of Mana, Secret of Evermore, Soulblazer/Illusion of Gaia/Terranigma, Lufia, Lunar, old Zelda (see Katsuya Terada illustrations).

Pic related is the future you chose.



Adventurer Conqueror King System. Adventures Dark and Deep. GURPS.



>No 50+ year old says "hate-baby rage boner."

The cool ones do!


File: 57c26df61f72f3a⋯.png (772.56 KB, 1031x655, 1031:655, violet-tunic.png)



It wouldn't surprise me if WotC starts pushing "all dwarf women have beards it's canon suck it" sooner or later.



>So, any alternative to D&D 5E that isn't another edition of D&D (Pathfinder as well), isn't Furryshit, isn't Vargshit ans isn't Warhammershit?

OSRs in general, "inbetween" games like Beyond the Wall, Shadow of the Demon Lord, Shadow of Esteren, 2d20 Conan, Symbaroum, One Ring, Kai. Also, nothing prevents you from playing still relatively clean, earlier versions of D&D.



There are very little more pathetic things than a grown up attempting to "fit in".



I would love to help you out if I could with getting you some games. Best thing I can say is try to go to comic or game conventions in the area. You can ignore most of the bullshit pandering and just have some fun.



That's not old shit though, it's all modern. For old shit, you have to look at myths and legends from thousands of years ago up through the medieval age. I'd even make an allowance for pulp era stuff like Robert E. Howard and his contemporaries, or even authors like Jules Verne.



It depends on how literal the rules are WRT interpretation. Everything up through 2nd edition was pretty open for interpretation by the DM, and it was simple enough to run a game with fairly abstract combat instead of a tactical wargame.



Except that's bullshit. AD&D is still at it's core a series of simulations world-building tables packaged alongside a monster killing game and the DM advice of "wing it".

Even 2E and the 1994 Rules Cyclopedia, the only versions of D&D ever printed to get a passing grade in my book, still lack anything of substance besides lore and world-building tables.



Most of the problem is an inconsistent schedule that changes by the week. I've tried asking for specific days off but it only backfires a few weeks later when it changes again and that asked for day off doesn't come back. I've resigned myself to simply not gaming anymore.



> still lack anything of substance besides lore and world-building tables.

Whoa there, cowboy... Are you implying that AD&D lacked substance? If all these settings, sourcebooks, adventures, campaigns (not to mention additional books, novels & shit) are "not substantial", WTF is "substantial" then"?



WTF is that?



AD&D2E's City States is how you present a setting with substance. Give the DM details that are fucking usable, as opposed to a Monstrous Compendium expansions and tourism guides.


Ok, the conclusion I got from this thread is that we need a new franchise, made from the ground up, that isn't just a shitty fork of something else.



Actually, the game needs to be modernized as well:

>Make augmented reality table/cards, or an holographic devices, or even use VR.

>This could come with Proprietary Tablets working as the Character/Master sheet and books.

>This is the future YuGiOh should have pursued as well.

The LAN solution is also good, but I preffer the term Local Arena to be taken literally, instead of far away online stuff. Far away online stuff experience sucks ass.



This is a tradition that was started by Lorraine Williams, the CEO of TSR after it was snaked out from under Gary Gygax. She didn't believe in paying the employees to play games, and so she forbid them from actually doing so. This, as you can imagine, was not good for business.


>Not wanting to play 2nd edition

Fucking fag



>any alternative to D&D 5E that isn't another edition of D&D (Pathfinder as well),

Boot Hill. It a Wild West setting. It has STD status effects and female characters can get pregnant from NPC rape.



>tfw you're roleplaying as a female

>tfw you're so immersed and doing auch a good job that you're even doubting yourself, thinking you're gay or some shit

>tfw some npc rapes you in-game and gets you pregnant

>tfw you roleplay getting your imaginary pussy penetrated by a soulless and agentless empty being

>tfw you have to roleplay as a pregnant woman

>tfw you have to roleplay giving birth

>tfw you roleplay being a mother, having your baby sucking yoir tits and everything

Man... this is fucked up.



>>tfw some npc rapes you in-game and gets you pregnant

>>tfw you roleplay getting your imaginary pussy penetrated by a soulless and agentless empty being

>>tfw you have to roleplay as a pregnant woman

>>tfw you have to roleplay giving birth

>>tfw you roleplay being a mother, having your baby sucking yoir tits and everything

That kinda hot


File: c8394bdd88c9fa7⋯.png (240.19 KB, 665x452, 665:452, 017_01_01_01.png)



Are there any hentai doujins where it's just a bunch of girls playing a trpg, and the all lewd is just them imagining their GM's magical realm? I really need this now.



To my limited knowledge, it started with an aside in the second part of the LotR trilogy.

D&D is usually "credited" with spreading the meme, but in fact it's actually a Forgotten Realms thing. Bearded dwarf women aren't mentioned in the AD&D PHB, and the Complete Book of Dwarves explicitly describes bearded women as a trait of Deep Dwarves (non-evil underdark dwarves) only. Faerun was the first D&D setting where bearded dwarf women were overt and treated as the norm.



Nah, it was uphill until 4th, then downhill with Essentials and 5e.



True dedication.


YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.



Question. Why do westerns and Wild West settings in general tend to spawn kinky shit?



Muhrica was degenerate since it's early days.


File: 5ca7aa2b3dd7027⋯.png (1.44 MB, 728x915, 728:915, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 6211f31a560c091⋯.png (312.25 KB, 1189x696, 41:24, ClipboardImage.png)


>D&D is usually "credited" with spreading the meme, but in fact it's actually a Forgotten Realms thing.

As this anon >>381733 and even you yourself said, female dwarves have been a thing since Tolkien and therefore since the fantasy and later roleplaying genre as we know it today existed and it's been one of the most debated things eversince, as every author has his own vision of this.

As for DnD, I'm pretty sure I saw a bearded dorf-women on at least one old module cover but the most striking example migh be this one. The Shady Dragon Inn contains pre-made characters for every class/race. The two female dorfs are cleary bearded, which means at least to some players and creators this was a somewhat established thing. This books was released in 1983, four years before the first Forgotten Realms material got released.


File: e0c957b39d14a80⋯.gif (1.6 MB, 350x197, 350:197, _castle.gif)


> AD&D is still at it's core a series of simulations world-building tables packaged alongside a monster killing game and the DM advice of "wing it".


> AD&D2E's City States is how you present a setting with substance.

So, to sum it up: AD&D is lacking a substance, but at the same time it does not.

Got it.


Where the are you from, OP? Pathfinder seems to be dying in my neck of the woods. It's all 5E (and some normie-level indie stuff). 5e is exploding (see also, said normies) because of the multimedia whale WizBro is trying to be. It's mostly Adventurer's League (RPGA all over again) and Streaming/Script shows like Critical (or whatever flavor of the week celebrity driven TTRPG drama is popular) on the web. The game is probably dying for folks like us, but it's far from dead in general...

I'm not as old as the "totally with it with the kids" fart whose posting here, but I'm old enough to see Wizbro for what it is. It's a company. They don't need to give a shit about us. Through the power of neoliberalism, they see a market demographic of spoiled lefty kids who throw money at whatever idpol is out there. As a result, they'll claim that the views here will "make them look bad" (at least to that new market demographic). Meanwhile, working folks don't have time or money to waste on frivolous identity or fun money usually, they're probably ignored. So, of course they go for the coastal elites and gender-unknown identifies-as-bacon college kids.


File: fc6b0ef25ab5eca⋯.jpeg (302.31 KB, 970x595, 194:119, zerocharisma.jpeg)


Will the straight white neckbeard demographic ever be viably marketable again?



In stomps Tumblr, automatically knowing everything about the previous poster. How precious.


File: fe14667b487e009⋯.jpg (34.2 KB, 640x920, 16:23, 05130253b8c0fa32570a56a4cb….jpg)



>I'm not as old as the "totally with it with the kids" fart whose posting here

You sure it's not a young guy pretending to be older then he is by a decade or so?


I want both the teenfags and boomerfags to leave pls.



Chalking it up to trying to capture a new market is giving WotC too much credit. At this point it seems that they just don't care. It's on cruise control. You look at the books being released, it's been almost entirely adventure modules. 2 monster books, 2 generic splatbooks... we are 4 years into this edition already.

They're doing next to nothing with D&D, and if I had to guess it's probably because they're throwing the vast majority of their resources into Magic to try to appease daddy Hasbro. The Silver Showcase is just pissing money away trying to desperately generate hype.

Sure, you can say Wizards is focusing on the adventure modules because that new market they're chasing is too retarded to come up with adventures on their own and that's what they want, but then there hasn't even been a campaign setting book in this edition. The most basic of basic shit here. 4e got a hell of a lot more support than this, and that was when they lost a big chunk of the market to Pozzfinder, for fuck's sake.



We're gonna need some logs, anon, for studying.



Don't talk shit about She-Hulk anon



this thread is 6 days old, I wonder If OP found something at this point



> I want to stay here alone.



They're trying to kill the remaining interest in 5e, which was overwhelmingly piratable as all the previous editions were, so that they can make a phone app edition. It'll follow the Windows 10 philosophy and there won't be an edition after that. It'll just be incrementally updated and improved upon and called "True DnD" or "DnD Live" or some such crap.

For five or ten bucks a month, you get access to the New DnD. They'll try to sell it with just the new edition, at first, complete with dice rollers and chat rooms and battle maps and character sheet tracking that has DM tools to add stats and equipment and money. It won't sell very well, so they'll start adding older editions and their character sheets as a form of DLC, where you do a one-time payment for twice as much as a monthly subscription and get to add 5e or 4e or 3.x or the mountain of content that was 2nd Edition AD&D.

To hear all the tweakers in Silicon Valley tell it, the future is tablets and cell phones. Given that they won't need to waste time with shelf space and finicky hobby shop owners, they'll see it as a financially viable solution. Just keep an eye out in the classifieds for coders with Java experience and some familiarity with DnD.



Ratqueens I guess. A D&D run by a feminist gender neutral DM alone while looking at tumblr.



Tolkien did, iirc. But most fantasy settings didn't run with that until recently when genderqueer crap became popular.



Pretty sure gygax was a fan of the bearded female dwarf.


File: 7ba2082f3acfa0c⋯.jpg (110.03 KB, 500x440, 25:22, cute_spider_girl.jpg)



I wish they weren't obviously doing this

>but they are

Leftists not even once. I love how they managed to go from "I'm literally too stupid to enjoy your hobby and not autistic enough to care" to ruining something they never liked to begin with. Oh well, even the 'indie saviors' of the hobby have left us and now all that is left is faggots that get triggered by snake and spider posting.


File: 5c2a782d4849644⋯.png (101.51 KB, 1204x552, 301:138, Screen Shot 2018-07-10 at ….png)


Is this the one? I'm surprised anyone still gives a shit about 5E being casualised. It's old news and everyone who cared continued playing 3.5 or moved to Pathfinder.



tbh, I get the feeling that D&D isn't very popular. Yeah, I understand people play it and there are whole forums dedicated to it, but it all looks like a lukewarm reaction at best. "Oh, so this is the new system we got and are gonna play. Ok, yawn".

In comparison, I recall heated discussions each time a massive sourcebook for PFRPG is announced. For example "Unchained" (a big disappointment if anybody asks me), or "Ultimate Tactics". Even in PDF share threads all across *.chans the tension arising form anticipation was enormously high.


File: 8bfa58bc498e0d0⋯.jpg (84.32 KB, 960x720, 4:3, 8bfa58bc498e0d0e18587886e8….jpg)


Maybe among people who play a lot of RPGs it isn't a big deal but latest financial reports show that D&D is growing in sales unlike many of the other WOTC products. They have huge presences at a lot of the big cons where they field something like 50 tables. I will be honest as I haven't been to Origins, Winter Fantasy, or Gencon where these big events are to compare it to other RPG that are ran at cons. Most of the cons I go to have 10-15 tables for D&D and PAXWest will have 20+ tables for it. So it might not be discussed much due its simplicity and development flaws but it is not dying although I sort of wish it was. That way all the people who play it because it is the cool thing to do would decide to find something else to do.


File: 9ea8b7e7c984c2d⋯.gif (932.25 KB, 253x197, 253:197, a_man's_green_hand_is_upse….gif)


Pathfinder doesn't have a warlock class.



>Why can’t I find a 5E group? Is 5E dying or something? Does it have a bad reputation like 4E?

Not really bad, just terminally underwhelming.

It's mostly a mix of 3E, 4E and fixes from Castles&Crusades.

Those who wanted Castles&Crusades already play C&C. Munchkins, scalies and people with spiky chain fetish play 3.x,

autists and goodthink fags play Pozzfinder,

furries play Ironclaw,

those who want have some tough shit or simply exclude munchkins play AD&D2,

people with tables fetish play AD&D1,

people with polearms fetish play either AD&D*,

hipsters who struggle for dominance by comparing length of their neck beards play ye aulde stuff from before AD&D.

And rules-tinkerers play homebrews.

Who's left?



Why are soys so afraid of leftists?



It doesn't?



>RPGs didn't use it until the current year.

It's right above you, you blind fuck. >>382191



Well because of the area revealing to be a nationalist might actually result in getting actual physical along with destroying my lively hood. Personally I prefer to drop subtle red pills when I can and call on leftists to keep their politics away from the table because it frustrates the shit out of them because they just love posturing.



It doesn't. At least no official ones. I'm sure it has support magic classes (let's be real, warlocks are a support magic class, to let mages and sorceresses do other shit than just attack), but none of them are about going neck deep into some eldritch shit, having a cantrip for a class feature (Eldritch Blast) and no eldritch invocations and such. Shame really, I fucking love the warlock class, even just the flavour alone makes the class a tasty meal in 5e. It's just dripping with tasty juices. I do wish the milestones were a bit better for GOOlocks, just having a thrall doesn't seem that good, unless you kill a king or some epic hero or something. Fucking "Hurl Through Hell" is awesome, 10d10 psychic damage, remove ANY unit for a whole turn, fucking great milestone. But you'd think psychic shit would be more GOOlocks's shtick. Anyway, I like them just for the fun factor. There's the kineticist class in pathfinder, but that's if you want to play a bender, a la Avatar: Last Airbender, not if you want to be studying the fae, demons or the unknown beyond the stars. Really, warlocks are the only reason I still hold on to 5E, I just want to try out the class if nothing else.



Ok, not true, there is a Warlock archetype for vigilantes, but it sucks.



I've found Awakened Mind to be really useful. Besides communicating with creatures you don't share a language with, it's great for passing secret messages to other party members. Or messing with NPCs who most likely have no idea what telepathy is. Definitely feel like I got more utility out of the ability than what the devs intended.

If there's one drawback to locks though, even with resetting on a short rest, the number of spell slots is pretty limiting. Even at higher levels the only spells I ever really used were Hex, Hunger of Hodar, and, situationally, Banishment. Otherwise, you're almost always going to spend your turn saying, " I cast Eldritch Blast".



> Pathfinder doesn't have a warlock class.

Not an official one, but man, it takes a very specific mindset to favor a game mainly because it features a specific class, easy to convert or replace via homebrew.

Very specific mindset, indeed.



I stopped following after 2nd ed. pre spalt books.

to me the "magic" of the system was lost after that, and like a lot of anon's have said in this thread good luck finding a group.

the gygaxian feel is lost. why not play anything else. dnd is now cookie cutter crap/



Yeah, 'locks could use some more spellslots. Still, I want to try one out. GOO Tomelock looks like fun to me. One thing that can help is Create Bonfire, 1d8 fire damage, goes up to 4d8 at lvl 17 if I remember correctly. Pretty good for when you just want some fun, like cooking or warming your buddies during nighttime.



I really, really hope that it is.



where do you live



> The elf god Corellon Larethian is often seen as androgynous or hermaphroditic

Those two do not mean the same fucking thing, and I'm pretty sure there are women out there who prefer men's clothes who would be deeply insulted if you called them herm.

>You can play a female dwarf who hates being mistaken for male

Oh my, how problematic that the other races of Faerun aren't more progressive thinking, and this sounds like they're suggesting treating gender as a running gag. How very problematic.




I got roped into DMing a 5e game after not touching the hobby since 2014 or so (I've got some of the beta rules from then but not much else), been to preoccupied with work and /pol/ shit. Its like returning to the shire after destroying the ring except the ring isn't destroyed.


Seems alright. We did a one-off tonight but only had enough time for one combat at first level. Seems like a lot of build choices are simplified so there's less numbers floating around.

>Expect the group to peter out quickly like we always do so don't get attached

>Decide to make a Dwarven... Bard

>Okay I'll be a skald-inspired warrior poet thing

>Stats end up as 18/17/11/11/12/16 stats

>Instrument is a carved horn, but in performance settings I talk and dance and act

>Pick spells based on the theme of "sound"

>Including Vicious Mockery

>Since I have +4 str and +3 dex, I use a longsword and fucking rocks and I just hurl them at people

>While calling them names and hurting them, from a long distance

>When they get close I run the fuck away, sometimes toot my horn

>I'm basically a schoolyard bully named Chäd Thundercock




Just say you are running a game at your FLGS and people will join if they are desperate for a game. If they are autistics you can boot them and find more.


File: 9ebee541282aa7b⋯.png (302.15 KB, 576x339, 192:113, Ethereal_Plane_Portal.png)

5e is really popular in my area, the game store i go to has postings all over asking for players. sucks cause my group is looking for players for our heavily homebrewed (see: the game isn't ruled by big dick casters) 3.5 game and the new people are too braindead to comprehend rules, or don't listen, and keep talking about critical roll. shoulda seen one players reaction when he charged a frost giant got sent to -27 or something crazy and started asking to make death saving throws and we had to inform him he was reallll dead.



>really popular

>lots of people desperate for players

something doesnt add up here wotcuck shill



Yeah, you're reading comprehension. 5e is popular and he's desperate for 3.5e players.



An abundance of games seeking players seems to imply that lots of people want to play and run it, which is unfortunately more than you can say for the many other systems out there, which you can't even find on store shelves in most cases, let alone being advertised by players seeking other players.



They are afraid of themselves?



>autists and goodthink fags play Pozzfinder,

no, autists play








>For example "Unchained" (a big disappointment if anybody asks me)

What was disappointing about it?



The biggest flaw of Bugfinder and turd edition in general is that GM'ing it is a horrible experience and only masochists willing GM it.


5E is dominating the mainstream TRPG. It's sad that Bugfinder carters towards faggotry and ups the pozz to 11.



No shit Drow are homophobic, their society is run by women and spiders.


>West Marches

>Play a Pixie

>Game goes into high level

>You know, the moment where everyone is unkillable and they're basically gods

>Decide to make every elephant in the world both trully immortal and infertile for a meme

>Buy every elephant in the world

>Acquire most of businesses in the world

>Pay people in elephants

>Suddenly you have god-tier PCs doing magical transactions in elephants because the elephant is the most stable currency and the most viable way to do high price transactions



Come to think of it. Most plotlines of that West Marches game happened because my Pixie did something he thought was funny and fucked everyone that wasn't on the high end of the power scale.



You fucked up as soon as you bought a system from a big company. WoTC, White Wolf, and Paizo are all too busy dumbing down their systems to appeal to video game plebians or gender politikz, that they couldn't give a shit about if their game was good or not. The only people who play 5E and enjoy it more than literally any other version are big fat gamer girl nerd chicks, or baby's first tabletop. But hey, you got a nice paperweight now, and you can chat up floozy gamer girls with it.

Just go check the troves for older books that aren't going to give you permanent brain injuries just from looking for a group. If you are set on DnD go 3.5 or 2. If you just want fantasy go pick one of the myriad of d20 systems out there. Literally all of them come out on top compare to 5E.

I also hope you avoid whoever was looking to play Ironclaw. Autists who play tabletops shower once a month. And people who play ironclaw wear their fursuit 24/7. Add those together and you got one musky husky.



>and keep talking about critical roll

Critical Roll is why I decided to get back into D&D. Does that make me a bad person? Should I kill myself?



Not necessarily. Only if you want all your games to be like CR or you say 'that isn't what Mercer does'. Some times something scratches the itch that makes you want to play again.

That being said Matt Mercer and all his players are cancerous assholes on social media who act like gate keepers if you don't hold the same political views as them. They pretty much told people if they didn't believe Ford 100% they don't want them playing at their tables. My twitter list for D&D personalities was filled with people basically assuming her faulty testimony as 100% factual and Kavanaugh being angry shows him lying. I just made the list so I can keep up to date on releases and D&D related drama but they are as bad as the comic pros when it comes to filling their feed with insane political garbage.



It was basicly Pathfinder version of 3E's Unearthed Arcana, plus some revised classes but

>the new systems weren't balanced even within themselves (the abilities granted by Variant Multiclassing are inconsistent and varied wildly in power and magus variant mutliclassing doesn't even work without also doing normal mutliclassing)

>inherit bonus scaling just doesn't work for half the classes in the game, druids/summoners/hunters/whatever can't equip their animal companion, pure casters can't skip a magic weapon in favor of pearls of power/better headband/something they'd actually use

>no customization till epic levels

>also a lot of is just plain off, modules expected you to get a magic item during your third level with monsters that had dr/magic appearing then, but you don't get magic weapon till 4th level

>Barbarian had a lot of uneeded nerfs instead of just applying the new rules for making rage easier to apply/not die when it ends

>Rogue has some decent additions but not a significant fix

>Monk is the same as Rogue, but they broke compatibility with existing archetypes and deemed it bad to have all good saves and a good BAB

>Summoner actually came out rather decently, but initially put some serious restrictions on your options (further splat however has given it some wildly creative options that would never have been possible under the old system, like summoning your character's ancestor complete with class abilities.)

>while this wasn't known then most of the systems were just prototypes for PF2E and Starfinder rules, but none of the issues from Unchained were fixed in those

>it wasn't even the popular ones but flawed ones that were used, it was the ones that were a mess that got built into the new systems



>. Why do westerns and Wild West settings in general tend to spawn kinky shit?

If women are not whores. They marry as virgins and stay loyal housewives. It’s common for men to had harems back than.



No, no, to my credit they're not like gods to me. I just stumbled upon them recently, not even 20 episodes in. Trying to remember good times and it got me thinking about back when I tried to do D&D stuff with other people years ago. I just want to have fun. Trying to get involved in a group through the local comic outlet.


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stuff that inspires you to play the game and gives you ideas isn't inherently bad, though I have my own convictions against 5e (the way dying works is completely silly, everything feels a lot more "dumbed down" imo) and also the way that mercer runs his sessions should not be a baseline. I see it sucking the originality out of new players I meet as they think that they should basically imitate mercer and his players because they're "doing it right." Hell, the two new players often complain that 3.5e is "too complicated" and should be "more like a videogame" because I'm certain that mercers stuff seems a lot more smooth and scripted.



The curse of moderately entertaining RPG podcasts is that they give you such a strong itch for a fun game like that. They make you want to gather around the table and share laughs and clever ideas with friends for a few hours... Even though, in reality, half the table won't be paying attention, one guy will need to reference the rulebook every 5 minutes, the GM won't be able to keep things moving along at a decent pace without railroading...

Something about recording a session makes people behave differently, I guess. I've seen this at conventions too. Dumb behavior drops to negligible amounts when players know that they have a strict schedule or an audience. It's like performance anxiety, but in a good way, because they know they have to make things, fun, memorable, and have it all run smoothly, instead of having no pressure at all and just running loose and lazy.



that description is way older than 5e


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Not it isn't. Correlon has been described as "androgynous" but in no way hermaphroditic or genderfluid or any of that tumblr shit. 3.5's Deities and Demigods just says he's all about protecting the beauty of nature and the appreciate of aesthetic pleasure.


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Anon, Corellon Larethian has been gender fluid since 1e



You know what? Fair enough. Elves have always been a bunch of faggots.



Except that elves have a strict no gay policy. Like go back to the Complete Book of Elves. They're so disinclined towards fucking that they just don't do it unless its to make babies.

D&D elves are not 40k Eldar.



This. Their main deity just like to change form as they see fit, the general society just accepts it but focus more on promoting the arts and shit that sex is more of a secondary concern.


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>>Barbarian had a lot of uneeded nerfs

What did they nerf?



tbh this is why I exclusively play or run 1e, BX, or BECMI/RC. No pozz.



They definitely have a strict no homo policy when I run the game. All faggots get the bog in my game.


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What pisses me off about this is the fact that Corellon was not meant to be some grant statement about gender being a social construct. He's a magical elf God, for fuck's sake. Something otherworldly and magical that's not bound by human social norms. Doesn't mean he's superior or somehow more amazing, but it's an interesting little bit of something for the setting. Likewise for playing with worldbuilding and toying around with ideas like gender roles in different cultures and races just to make things a little different, or to build off a specific trait or quirk that would alter the way these fictional societies function. The point is to make the world fascinating and interesting, nothing more.

However, now these things have been turned into awful, cancerous bullshit. Corellon being a weird sex-changing elf god isn't there in the newer edition because it makes Elves interesting. It's a feature forced back in because the hipster faggots who are in charge of the game wanted to virtue signal about tumblr identity politics. It's a big faggoty rainbow flag that says "elves are so cool because they aren't constricted by your gross, heteropatriarchal shitlord opinions about gender!!! D&D IS FOR EVERYONE!!"

The fact that the vast majority of 5e content these days is just straight up lifted from old editions and then retrofitted with poz, like waterdeep being a glorious diverse city full of wonderful, magical free-spirited trannies and faggots, only goes to highlight that there's no interest in creating interesting worlds. They aren't invested in making an internally consistent setting with interesting nooks and crannies. They just want to take something else and plaster it in rainbow flags and SJW sloganeering about moronic marxist ideals.


So other than the SJW shit, and the seeming lack of support from WotC, what are the problems with 5e?

I'm about to enter a group running 5e, and so I'm reading the ruleset for the first time. It just doesn't seem to grab me, somehow. Am I too hung up on other systems, or is it really some problem with 5e? I just want to enjoy a good game, but if I can't, I'd like to pinpoint why.



its just a bland mix of 2 and 3,5. thats it. and, mechanically, they are complete shit but you must have played other systems before to realise that


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WotC is supporting it, but not in the way people expect. Lots of campaign books and setting books, but very little in the way of substantial content. There's also the really weird problem of them insisting that Forgotten Realms is now the default setting.. but they haven't released a fucking FR campaign setting book. They're also doing this really dumb shit where they trickle out half-assed content onto their awful website and then later repackage it into books years down the line, after the community has playtested it for them.

As a basic bitch RPG, it's tolerable. Not the worst thing ever. Easier and quicker to teach and play for newfags. The problem is that it's casualized as fuck. Everything is clearly made in such a way that no one every really excels too hard. There's no misc +1s floating around, just proficiency plus modifier, which means everyone is locked down to roughly the same power level at all points, as long as they are doing the few things they are designated to be good at. Casters are still overpowered and have the most tools, but non-caster characters are slightly less shit than they were in 3.5 but there's less feats and shit to fuck around with, so they stay pretty gimped.

Oh yeah, and the monster manual is pretty fucking boring. They went out of their way to get a lot of decent art for every entry in the book, but practically every fucking monster is boring. The majority of monsters in the book seem to have one gimmick: Extra attacks.. and that's it.

Based on content and mechanics alone, it's okay-ish but given WotC's company politics, the behavior of its writers and employees, their abysmal handling of the game, and just the heaping amounts of POZ that emanates from that gaggle of faggots, I can't recommend it. I can't even say you should pirate it and play it with friends without paying anything, because that's still advertising and promoting the game. And people will tell you it's popular, which it is by the metrics of tabletop RPGs, but more popularity means more cancer. You can find a dozen online groups in a minute, but chances are you'll find that every one of those groups is full of obnoxious faggots worse than the worse THAT GUY you've ever played with. Being popular in the way 5e is does not mean good things. It may as well be the Overwatch of RPGs these days.




Thanks for the replies. I have no problem with the mechanics, per se. But yeah, it's bland, and I guess it's packaged in a way that's more of the same old DnD.

I just hope the group I'm meeting doesn't turn out to be too obnoxious. I've only just met with one of the players, so I have no idea how their group is like.


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I feel like 5e should've been called "DnD Lite" or something. It seems too casual, too streamlined. Yeah, character creation is easier, but it feels like there's less I can do with it. I don't remember a lot of the mechanical specifics, but I do remember the general impressions I got from going through the creation process with other players in 3.5 vs 5e. Again, I wouldn't mind if they released 5e as "DnD Lite", but having it take a core release means a waste of time and focus, when they could actually be making an improved system. There's not really anything substantial 5e added that a quick-start-guide couldn't do better.

The only thing that struck me as an actual interesting change was being able to choose between feats or ability scores during level ups, but the way they went about incorporating that felt very sloppy. At times it felt more like an ultimatum than an option, and not taking feats at first level made early-game characters feel even more bland.

Oddly, I actually struggle to find non-5e groups here. It seems to me like it's very alive, and think part of that is that it's designed to appeal to non-veterans at a time when tabletop is booming because vidya is abandoning couch-cushion multiplayer. It's an entry-point for people who want to be serious about tabletop, but would otherwise be too lazy to actually acquaint themselves with it. I think especially evident here is Mike "niggers and cunts aren't smart enough for DnD" Mearls using his belief in eugenics as an excuse for poor game design. He wanted to make a product that, at the expense of existing fans, would be compatible to a potential new audience he deemed as unable to mentally process previous iterations of the product. It's all about expanding the market, and being at the cost of quality is a bonus for the pozzgoblins at WotC.



In a way it reminds me of B/X but its missing a a lot of the extra stuff that's expected after level nine like domain building and such.



Finding a pre-existing AD&D group can be hell but I've found when I start swinging my grognard credentials around if I'm with people who aren't cultically invested in 3.X systems it actually goes a long way. For most people nowadays 3.X represents "the good old days" of "real" D&D so things from before 3.X are like some mystical relic of a bygone age, if they've heard of anything they've heard of THAC0 or save vs wands or other ideosyncecies of the systems that make sense in context but look retarded on their own. It can be fun just to talk about AD&D or Basic with people who just have no frame of reference to understand them in.



This is where the BECMI/RC is a grand slam.

>want epic level shit? You got it faggot

>want dominions, politics, rules for mass combat and shit? Done

>want advanced mechanics for combat? No problem.

>want race and class separate? Get lost pussy



I find 5e a bit too Harry Potter-ish.This happens any time normalfags start liking something. The beauty of AD&D was that the rules were flawed (deliberately) to keep normalfags out and therefore wasn’t welcoming to femgroids and niggers. Groups were more cohesive, where dudes could freely fart, eat shitty food, and make rape and faggot jokes.

The only usefulness of 5e is the plethora of reference material and updated tools. Otherwise I’ve found that it tends to attract normans.



>Is 5E dying or something

Nah, you just got bad luck



>freely fart, eat shitty food, and make rape and faggot jokes

We still do that with 5e



I personally find it quite intriguing, often agreeing with what >>396835 said. Maybe they overdid the streamlining with removing skills and simplifying the AC score, but i feel that the combat itself flows in a very different, but pleasant way when compared to 3.5, the edition which I also am a adept of.

In a way, it is in fact a "DnD Lite", considering that you're not really restricted to it, and perhaps WoTC took the opportunity to make what is marketable at the time; however, i wouldn't say that is necessarily bad, just a different approach, and if you consider the whole OSR movement, it is a step towards that direction, albeit a somewhat poorly executed one padded armor with disadvantage on sneaking?

Overall, the my main contempt with 5e is the art design except monsters, they are pretty good and the whole millenial stereotypical RPG shit that WoTC is plagued by, which is extremely evident in Xanathar's Guide to Everything, for example.


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better not say that too loud or the faggot police are gonna find you



It's mainstream, it's casual, it's mass-market appeal, it's lowest common denominator. It's a game that they expect you to play with gruff grognards, weak-willed feminists, and hyperactive children all at the same table, and it's somehow supposed to make all of them happy.


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this tbh



It’s much harder to do that with Wymym around. Last thing we want is a land whale with blue hair farting.



>Be WotC

>Have most popular P&P RPG, Dungeons and Dragons

>All the talented individuals who went into creating the game organically from scratch have left, retired or are deceased

>A surprising number of people flip from 3.5e to pathfinder

>Try to reinvent D&D for the new age

>Dumb down the rules, change a bunch of junk, but keep all of the 'recognizable' D&D parts, so new people will play

>4e is widely slammed and derided as being MMO-inspired trash

>Doesn't recover from this reputation until 5e is already publicly in development (and many still hold that opinion)

>Plan to release 5e to save face, a return to glory

>It's basically 3.5e but watered down for the dummies

>It's still too complicated for many of the new players who are coming for the 'roleplay' experience or saw some stupid greentext/watched a youtube video and want to do a silly gimmick like it instead of learning the game proper

>People continue to lambast game for its failures

>Try to make 5e an esports with ecelebs

What comes next?



You all know the answer, new edition. With even less Dnd and more faggotry this time.



We're still a few years off from a new edition. This one is still selling and there's still widespread community support for it. The 3rd party materials are flowing in like crazy and even though their last few books have been a shitshow, normalfags don't seem to care. They could carry on for another 5 years like this, and if things ever slump enough, they would probably just release something like "Player's Handbook Enhanced!" which would contain various eratta, extra material and classes, and some optional rules to spice up the game. It could be 5.5e, without calling it that, but it would be closer to the system they should have released instead of this trickle feed of half-assed homebrew and campaign books they are doing now.


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3rd edition 2000

4th edition 2007

5th eidtion 2013

See a trend there, the only reason 5th has lasted as long as it has is because its been accepted as an expense to cover the disaster of 4th edition and keep the IP active. I would give it 2 years tops (which lines up with the 7's) before new and improved 6 comes out which lets you play as atheist alterboys, soys (a race of intelligence soybeans) and empowered transexuals who have werepenis's and can only be damaged by their ex-lovers.



5th edition actually started development in 2012 and wasn't released until later 2014 after excessive beta testing. Even then, they released the 3 core books a month apart each, and then it took almost 3 years, in 2017, when they finally released something close to a splatbook with extra classes and shit in Xanathar's guide to everything. Up until that point it was all campaign and pre-written adventure books.

At the pace they're going, they intend to drag this shit out for another decade, at least.



Just stop buying the newer editions. I’m really happy with 1st edition and all the shitty rules it has. Normalfags and SJWshits stay away from it.



Oh I've never bought a new edition.


5E is exploding in popularity. Celebrity streams and podcasts are successfully converting video game players to tabletop.



>Celebrity streams and podcasts are successfully converting video game players to tabletop.

At best, they are converting people who normally only follow vidya streamers into people who follow vidya streamers and also follow a few tabletop streamers. Otherwise, it's still not all that easy to get the uninitiated to start playing D&D or any tabletop RPG and even people who claim an interest in the hobby will only stick to podcasts and streams, rather than ever playing or learning the rules for themselves.




Can confirm - playing with my friends out-of-state who all love watching D&D podcasts and Critical Roll or what the fuck ever is MUCH different from playing with my regular group. Lots more silly bullshit with little attempt to integrate your character into the world.

That being said, I'm sure I could whip them into shape, but that would involve putting up with them telling me stories about some e-faggot's game, and I can barely read storytimes here, and I like those.



4E resurgence for virtual table tops, it is actually *fun* online. The 2020s will be gamist dominated as new virtual table top tools become available, 4E was too soon, cowtipping and died because of the vaperware on launch then pay-to-play train-wreck afterwards. WotC is not a good software company.


It was about killing Pathfinder and reclaiming the throne, it did that by taking up the same space; 4E really isn't D&D. 5E really is the best version of 3E-- which is a badly homebrewed version of 2E. The greatest thing 5E has going for itself is it's power curve thanks to bound accuracy, which makes DM'ing a breeze but being a character can be extremely frustrating trying to have a power fantasy. WotC figured out that what DM want to play is what players go along with.


5E is the final edition from WotC, Hasbro does not care for the RPG market and doesn't see room for expanding even internationally, the department is a skeleton crew; if the D&D movie and series flop it's off to glue factory. Hopefully they sell the IP to a decent company that is entirely dedicated to the IP.


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>Hopefully they sell the IP to a decent company that is entirely dedicated to the IP.

Hopefully, it just dies. D&D is a sacred cow, which means it exists to continually coast on its legacy as something which was once one of a kind and exciting and impactful on pop culture, and something that came out of an extremely unique confluence of unlikely events.

D&D as it exists now, relies almost entirely on brandname recognition to maintain cultural relevance. The rules are so barebones and constructed so loosely out of pieces of older editions, that they don't even matter. All that matters is that people know the name "dungeons and dragons" better than they know any other system or even the concept of a roleplaying game.


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I don't think people really understand what's in store for D&D and how much money is being pumping into, it's going to be completely transformed. Paramount actually wants to make it into a multiverse like Disney's Marvel. We might be living a pre-D&Dshit world and could have dozens of cheesy action movies tailored for the lowest common denominator based on obscure characters. Capeshit is getting stale and Game of Thrones is coming to it's final season, a triple AAA D&D movie in 2021 could do extremely well to fill the void of both.

I'd love a D&Dshit Planescape or Ravenloft movie. Not going to lie.


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The closest you'd ever get is a Ravenloft movie based on the most recent published adventure, complete with Strahd's gay sex toy. Anything else would be FR with minor references to other planes here or there when a baddy shows up for an action scene.



Because there's absolutely no reason to play anything past 3.5.



Wasn't (s)he supposed to be a literal fusion of two deities of opposite gender?



3,5 was a fucking atrocity though. l have seen worse games (fatal) but its up there



I don’t think there is any reason to play anything past when Gary Gygax was still at TSR making the game. After he left, D&D went to complete shit. The only product that was worth buying afterwards was the RC.



2e settings were good tho




toppest tier



They were pretty neat, true. But that was when TSR decided to put out anything and everything and made the rules annoying. Like Dark Sun’s asinine rules. I guess it was cool playing medieval post-apocalyptic road warriors but everything was overpowered. A lot of those settings and supplements weren’t well thought out. We played Planescape, Dark Sun, Ravenloft, and Spelljammer for a little but the novelty wears off fast. We always went back to Greyhawk or FR



Bonus psychic damage to all attacks. Enemies hit by you have to make a wisdom save vs fear. You know, standard abomination stuff.


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Just play any system...



I exclusively play savage worlds at this point. I can run almost anything in it.



Tell me more about this savage worlds, stranger.

Is it like GURPS in the sense there's no real world setting, but just a skeleton from which to build whatever you want? Is it designed for one style, but easily molded for something else? I've heard it mentioned a few times, but never with any heft to the post.



5E is not dying, it is stronger than any edition of D&D ever thanks to WotC not flooding the market with must-own power creep players books every single month. They do it once or twice a year instead.

It just looks like its dying because WotC active communities on sites that anons pretend like they don't go to, and thus the people who are paying WotC's bills aren't coming here or to halfchan.

Afterall people who actually play and run D&D don't need to go to a chan to get a replacement fulfillment they're missing from not actually playing like the rest of us faggots.


Honest question: what do you guys think about the advantage/disadvantage system in 5e?

In 3.5 or PF you would add +2 to a roll or something but the simplicity of the advantage mechanic might simplify things in a good way.



>It just looks like its dying because WotC active communities on sites that anons pretend like they don't go to, and thus the people who are paying WotC's bills aren't coming here or to halfchan.

I don't use reddit, rpgnet, facebook, or any other forums, and I haven't visited cuckchan for anything more than morbid curiosity for the state of that shitpit in years. Stop projecting because you think people are going to suddenly give you asspats because you're so brave for admitting you're a shameless faggot who hangs around awful websites with other subhuman faggots.



Congrats on pointing this out. Sorry you're going to be attacked for pointing out that infinitychan is a minority of a minority.

D&D is big bucks (no match for cardboard crack though) and pretty culturally mainstream now; has been for a while.



Excellent reading of the thread where everyone said the same shit, but without sounding like faggots.



Thank you for proving my point. So, how's your actual game going?



Good: Makes (dis)favorable circumstances mater a lot

Bad: Doesn't stack in the slightest making it a binary condition.



So its 3.0 Pool of Radiance all over again.



Where the fuck do you people come from. The post is obviously referring to the "on sites that anons pretend like they don't go to" part of your post.

Faggots in the WotC Dicksucking communities are playing 5e, and on the niche sites where people are allowed to call WotC a giant gaggle of retarded faggots, it's less popular. You're not a genius for pointing this out.



The core argument is that D&D is dying because Anons haven't embraced it. My counter argument is that the kind of person who would bitch about a game on 8chan probably don't have a game at all, let alone D&D. And for the rare exception who do play D&D, they talk about it on WotC's circlejerk sites because there is a community for it there.

You being a faggot not withstanding.


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>The core argument is that D&D is dying because Anons haven't embraced it.



I've been playing in a weekly campaign on and off for the past 10 years. Suck my entire ass.


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>My counter argument is that the kind of person who would bitch about a game on 8chan probably don't have a game at all, let alone D&D.

>the kind of person who would bitch about a musician on 8chan probably doesn't listen to music at all, let alone Kanye West.

>the kind of person who would bitch about an anime on 8chan probably doesn't watch anime at all, let alone SAO.



This is a thread about the popularity of D&D, how is using D&D as the reference point a controversial statement?



>The core argument is that D&D is dying because Anons haven't embraced it.

Yes, because it sucks.

I find it hilarious how game developers are getting dumber by the hour, now-a-days.

People stopped enjoying wow as much as they did back in the day because of LFG, and difficulty drops, not because they didn't have a fully voice acted story or because they only had kalimdor and eastern kingdom walk around in. The game was not those things, but a sense of achieving something and making friends with every step.

People stopped caring about D&D because it was never about muh balance or muh crisp mechanics, people enjoyed 3.5e because it presented a lot of material which was fun to play around with. It's a good thing that some classes are inherently better than others, and it's a good thing that each class does its own thing, and not everything under the sun, because this is, ultimately, where that feeling of freedom you get when you're browsing 3.5e material comes from.

4e was shit because it threw everything that was fun about an RPG experience out the window, and 5e is only marginally better, considering what's actually important.



I just don't think about it. I find the ruling too general for when effects start stacking or for circumstances that are hard to adjudicate. And so, I just default to not using the system in the first place.

It only really comes into play when it's a scenario specifically stated by the book or for when a circumstance is obviously disadvantageous.


5e is fucking garbage.

I hate 5e.

I wish more people played 2e.


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>People stopped caring about D&D because it was never about muh balance or muh crisp mechanics

<It's a good thing that some classes are inherently better than others

Grognards actually believe this...



><It's a good thing that some classes are inherently better than others

That is always the case however.

If you don't follow the meta you end up gimped.

And even in the case when every class is the same at everything, then what's the fucking point?

It ends up being like a Telltale game, you pretend your choices actually matter when in truth you're getting railroaded.



How many times can we have this argument in four decades of gaming?

Answer: a fucking billion goddamn times


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>Be me

>Be the only PDF collecting autist of the group

>By now I have RPGs for every imaginable game anyone could want to run.

>Group mostly does super serious long campaign stuff, so I want to bring in something like Paranoia to break from the serious tone and try something shorter and more relaxed.

>Group pisses and moans about any game that isn't 5th ed. D&D, and more specifically, any game that doesn't stroke the ego of their already massively over powered characters. Probably couldn't get them to play AD&D 2nd ed because they'd hate not having a new special power every other level, or god forbid, level caps on non-humans.




>Either some classes are inherently better than others

>Or every class is the same

Howabout we just don't give certain classes the ability to be better than specialized classes in the fields those classes specialize in.

I don't think its unreasonable.


Complacent groups are the worst.



That was mainly a problem back in 3.x when there were 6 gorillion supplements with the most ridiculous and poorly designed specialized classes.

I feel that it isn't nearly as bad in 5e, while some classes are still undeniably stronger than others.



Because 5E is for smoothbrains who just jumped on the bandwagon. It was to appeal to faggots who drank the koolaid.

Fuck off and go back to your hole before you miss the next episode of big bang theory.


5e is DnD cuck edition


5E a shit for absolute casuals and soy goblins. If you want to play D&D, then go with AD&D, OD&D, or a decent retroclone. Don't play anything by wizards of the poz.


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let me tell you this:

what if the reason nobody wants 5E is exactly by total lack of supplementation

12 basically identical classes, a small list of feats from release to this day, a small list of skills that overlap.

5E gets boring even for normalfags and it was never good for tr00 neckbeards



>the players want to play with their chars

c'mon why some Dms just love wasting characters, like stop pushing new and new campaign and dropping all the times



I don't think you understand. They'll run different campaigns all the time, till making new characters and keeping up with them becomes a chore. But when it comes time to play, they want to play their characters who have already finished a campaign long big adventure, and they basically don't want to stop until they reach diety-hood. They're already at the point where they can curb stomp major enemies.



>long big adventure

The fuck? I must be retarded. "Already finished a campaign adventure"/



You still don't understand the point, you insufferable cunt.

>Anons don't like 5e because it sucks.

Probably, but it's selling better than any TTRPG in history.

>But 5e sucks!

Probably, but it struck at the right moment to go fully mainstream in a way that no other TTRPG has before, and is selling gangbusters.


Probably, but that is not good enough evidence to prove the counterpoint wrong. D&D5E, regardless of perceived or actual quality, is not dying. It is insanely popular with the normies and casuals who have always propped up the industry, and just barely good enough to keekping the old grogs who don't have an OSR group from dropping the hobby.

Your move douche nugget.



is probably lack of closure, and who knows they probably don't even want closure.

consider this then, keep them adventures coming but always mention the level of attention they are drawing once you grow really tired of it do a "mission: survive" thing where you just grind them by a huge witch hunt, maybe trying to kill them make you find some enjoyment on the setting again.


When running a campaign for a long time but you don't want it to full retard god-slaying, what you need to do is to implement some sort of meaningful retirement option for characters. Before 3rd-ed made it a really shitty feat, each class had a built-in "set up an organization and base and become a powerful mover and shaker in the world" endgame that didn't require the DM to use Balors as minion enemies.



Popularity ≠ Quality

Sales ≠ Quality

Yes, it's selling and normalfags love it, but that doesn't mean it doesn't suck. Many have already pointed out that 5e isn't dying and that OP is a retard, which you'd know if you read the thread. If that's the only thing you're here to harp about, then you're missing the point. To fa/tg/uys, D&D may as well be dead and never continue on because it's become such a casualized mess for retards.



>5E is popular

Not him, but I think his argument was that DnD functioned for the longest time without the simplicity and balance that 5E strives for. Rather, the volume of content from previous editions helped cement popularity. Say for example, the popularity of 3.X does not stem from the same factors that make 5E popular.

Now as to 5E's popularity, yeah it seems to be active where I'm from. OP just might have had bad luck with his area.

On a side note, I don't agree at all that some classes ought to be better than others even if class imbalance were unavoidable. I liked ToB, even if I didn't bother with 4E.


Kek, I never bought a single book after 2nd edition. I think it was the one about mind flayers.


The early 2nd edition stuff was good though, before all that skills & powers junk.



>Howabout we just don't give certain classes the ability to be better than specialized classes in the fields those classes specialize in.

The problem is "specialized classes in the fields" are pretty much fucking useless outside of that. Even in core you had major overlap like Fighter/Barbarian/Paladin/Monk being melee types of varying quality and Rogue/Bard/Ranger being skill types.

The best solution is Saga Edition 4/5 distinct classes with no fixed class features beyond starting proficiencies. A "Warrior" class that can mix an match speciality trees like "rage", "martial arts", "iaijutsu", and "holy smite" would be better than dozens of different martial classes. If you made spell casting not entirely based on class, like a combination of Saga Edition (you spend feats to gain spells) and Spheres of Power ("Caster level" progresses like BAB, having high, medium and low progression), you could even have trees like Eldritch Knight which would have abilities like "You have full CL for personal only transmutation spells" and "You can channel evocation spells through a melee weapon. You have full CL for such spells".



>The early 2nd edition stuff was good though, before all that skills & powers junk.

Give Castles & Crusades or some OSR system a try.



Honestly, just give other systems a try in general. Don't limit yourself to trying to constantly capture that "D&D feel" that everyone is certain they can recreate.




>Popularity ≠ Quality

>Sales ≠ Quality

Learn some reading comprehension, son. "D&D5e is popular, and is selling well. That means it is not dying."

There is no quality assessment in that statement, nor does it include an opinion on hos much it deserves to be the most popular TTRPG on the market.

I have shared my opinion on it's quality, if you need me to repeat it here. I think 5e is just barely good enough to keep casuals engaged, and to keep some old grogs playing when they don't have better options readily available due to playgroups.



>Tower of Doom/Chronicles of Mystara, Record of Lodoss War, Secret of Mana, Secret of Evermore, Soulblazer/Illusion of Gaia/Terranigma, Lufia, Lunar, old Zelda

You're a weeb. You need to go check out the SwordWorld2.0 thread.



Bruh, to a regular person, he's not gonna do fucking research because like, who does that? Aren't tabletop games supposed to be about having fun? Maybe if 5E wasn't so fucking complicated and retarded more people would want to play it and be involved, instead of being shat on by the community because they don't realize it's complexity.



>who does that?

Anyone who cares about the cancer growing in their hobbies

>Aren't tabletop games supposed to be about having fun?

They are, but the prevailing attitude in many hobby and entertainment industries is that they exist to preach and educate their customers firstly, and make an enjoyable and fun product second.

>Maybe if 5E wasn't so fucking complicated



Do you have brain damage? 5e is the most dumbed down version of D&D ever put to print.



5e has been real popular, because it's retard simple enough that newcomers can quickly understand it, and old players who aren't picky get new material. It's been dumbed down enough to be palatable to the unwashed masses.



> 5e is the most dumbed down version of D&D ever put to print.

This is factually false. B/X and BEMCI are more dumbed down. The nature of 5E classes alone makes the game more complex than early basic D&D.



>The nature of 5E classes alone makes the game more complex than early basic D&D.

You mean the straight progression with only one or two choices to make, tied together by a strict proficiency bonus and as little math as possible?



Yes. As opposed to getting everything front loaded and never making another choice ever again and everything tied the a strict class specific progression.


5e is my favorite edition and I've played several, and the SJW shit, while definitely SJW shit, only cropped up in the last several months or so, it's easy enough to ignore.



This is both true and false.

B/X is mechanically more simple. This can be seen by the fact that B/X supplies in two small booklets a complete game system, while 5E requires three books. However, the main reason for this is that 5E provides a lot of mechanical answers and solutions to things, wheres older editions leave a lot more open to both the players and the GM - hence the OSR line "You are not your character sheet". Of course, you can just ignore things, but that's more a matter of personal decision. What I can say is that, as a result of this difference, I've seen people familiar with 5E struggle to play using B/X.

Calling BECMI dumbed-down, on the other hand, is a joke. Just Basic and Expert, maybe. Metzner did explicitly design the game for children. But the entire Rules Cyclopedia is a far more convoluted system than the name lets on, mostly because of proficiencies, and the decision to codify into rules shit like "only Fighters can hold a spear against a charge" and other dumb shit.



As per this: People forget that character individualization wasn't supposed to be mechanical, it was supposed to be uncovered through play. You decide one day your party is going to hunt down Tiamat, so you decide to get some protection against dragon breath to prepare for her five minions. You go to a sage, pay some gold, and ask "Where can I get protection vs. X?" Then go out into some dungeon or whatever and acquire those benefits, and record them on your character sheet. You don't select from a list of feats, you come up with them, and pursue them on your own terms. Two 12th Level Fighters won't have identical character sheets for this reason alone, this setting aside the importance of magical weapons. And there's a reason that spell research rules for magic-users are as old as OD&D - if you were a magic-user, you made your own spells. That was just how it was.


Dying nothing, that edition should have been aborted, and Mearls with it.


Mike Mearls is the worst thing to happen to D&D since Lorainne Williams. He is, in his own parlance, the Donald Trump of RPGs. The only difference is that he is an extreme left wing radical who uses shame tactics and progressive buzzwords to gatekeep as opposed to a wall and ICE.

And that isn't even getting into his game design. The only thing good to come out of 5E so far is the release schedule of books. Hanging profits on DMs and Collectors as opposed to milking every generic player out of $150+ just to have the expected level of base options.

The rules of 5E are too complex to be an introductory game like Basic D&D was in the 80s and 90s, lacks the mechanical texture needed to please the OSR fans, but also lacks the granular customization that would draw people back from GURPS or Pathfinder.

But no. My problem with Mike Mearls is not that he made a subpar game. Even shitty games can be great with the right group, and 5E is just bland. It's as I stated above. His management of the brand has created a culture of gatekeeping that wants to push out he long term fans to make room for the "younger more progressive" audience, forgetting that the progressive style of consuming media is to change it to meet their demands then reflect on it fondly on the shelf and never actually buy it.

The rainbow logo. The comments about mechanical complexity and depth of lore. Showing up to public orgies under the guise of gay pride.

And I say all this as a literal faggot who sucks dick for fun.



Don't mistake extreme casualization for a type of gatekeeping. Gatekeeping involves using kinds of metaphorical filters to weed people out. Casualization aims to overflow the community with so many people that the desires and will of the original fans/customers can't be heard over the cacophony of newfags who just like being pandered to, more than they like the hobby that they are being sold.

Also, that Trump comparison was fucking retarded. Otherwise, I don't really disagree with much of what you said. Mearls is pure cancer, but his history and relative name recognition make people regard him as an RPG expert and all around genius. He's none of these things. The fact that he's stuck around for so fucking long, only working on D&D, failing to innovate or make anything that's truly amazing in terms of design and mechanics, shows that he's the worst kind of person to be in charge of a major product's development. He's permanently stuck with absolutely no skill or creativity, but he's been slowly elevated through the company because he just never left or got fired. He was grandfathered to the position he's in because there weren't many other people with his timespan of "experience" in the industry. Not because he was truly great.



Mearls has stated that players who prefer complex rules and deep lore have no place in modern D&D.



If you're talking about the tweet he made, he was implying that having stronk womyn and sinless shitskins buying your product was more important than lore and mechanics, and that gatekeeping people out by... expecting them to know the rules and setting, had no place in his D&D. He was being a retard by insisting that gatekeepers had no place in modern D&D



That's my point. He's gatekeeping old school fans by stating mater of factly that what they find enjoyable about the game is not a part of D&D anymore and wanting it back in the game is insidious gatekeeping.



Gatekeeping keeps people out in the first place. What he's trying to do is alienate the core audience for the sake of a perceived mass market (which doesn't really exist in the way he thinks it does).


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I really hate what this d&d shit did to tolkien's concept of elves. they've become synonymous with hippy faggot archers and not much else.


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How can I tell if a D&D book is 4th or 5th ed?


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Going to assume you're just genuinely ignorant... 4e uses a system of Daily, Encounter, and At-Will "powers" contained in little color-coded boxes. Most official 4e books use a very similar formatting, usually with the logo along the top of the cover, the book title below it, some art in the middle, and then a designation as core rules or otherwise along the bottom. 4e books also followed the old model of having multiple numbered iterations of each book, like Player's Handbook 1, 2, and 3.

5e has far fewer books and tries to sell itself as a more classic adventure game with really easy to learn rules. 5e tries to be a lot like 3.5, but puts a limit on attributes and uses a flat proficiency bonus to control how powerful characters are. Easiest way to tell 5e books apart from others is the logo, which is a dragon in the shape of a ampersand.


AD&D is shit

3.5e is shit

Pathfinder is shit

5e is shit

Just accept D&D is a wargame and play 4e (or don't that's shit too, just don't play D&D lmao)



Enjoy your (you)




Mad because truth.


You want to know how I can tell you play Fagfinder?



Dwarves are supposed to be ugly



at least I have two weekly games, so have another (you)



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Have fun Fatfinder player.



never played 4e is it good



Technically its a homebrew fantasy heartbreaker and Starfinder. But still, a medicore system with good friends is infinitely better complaining about other peoples' fun on the internet.


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This anon may be getting hate, but he's right. Not all systems are born equal and d20 was born just for slaying monsters, with little actual roleplaying. It's more of a skirmish game (and a really slow one) than a narrative experience, and at that point you may as well play a dungeon crawler game; they do the same and do it better. D&D's wargame roots really show in almost every aspect of the game.

Most RPG people try out different systems, experiment, change, but in my experience, D&D players get entrenched in their system and categorically refuse to try something else. I've got a friend who's a DM too and he liked to run elaborate, story-driven campaigns using d20. It was painfully obvious how the system was working against him, and yet it took me more than a year to persuade him just to have a look at other rol games, if only to get some inspiration for homebrew rules. He realized that d20 was basically crap, but when he tried to introduce his group to a one-shot with another system, he faced some severe backlash, his players outright refusing to even try something that was not D&D. He stuck to D&D for a while, but now he's directing a political thriller set in the 1970s using World of Darkness rules (not my favorite, but at least WoD's system doesn't get in the way of RPing).

Yes, people are free to play what they want. However, that doesn't mean they'd be better off playing something else.


4 ed takes the skirmish aspect of D&D and turns it up to 11. Every class has special abilities; some they can use as they like, some once for encounter, some once a day. Mages, clerics, warriors... they all get them. It's like a tabletop World of Warcraft. If the DM knows what he's doing, 4 ed can be quite dynamic and fun. Unfortunately, a badly designed room / encounter can be tedious and painfully slow.

I'd say the dungeoneering in 4 ed was good, definitely better than 3.5 and 5 ed. It sacrificed some of the roleplaying, but in D&D it was never good to begin with, and if RPing is what you're looking for, there are better alternatives. Ultimately, 4 ed was heavily disliked cause it dared to be different. What D&D fans wanted was basically a reprint of 3.5, and when they got that in 5th edition, they cheered.


You can have a game with a variety of options and still be easy to play.

Look at Mutants and Masterminds. While actual character creation takes a lot of work, the rules for actually playing the game can be condensed down into less than 2 pages as this preview shows.


5E is so limited as to be auto-pilot for non-casters.



>Yes WotC has a bunch of progressive and LGBT people working on D&D now. So what? They want to sell books and expand the player base. D&D is a mass market product.

Anon if you want to sell a product and are interested in the mass market, the last last last last people you want to sell to are the LGBT.

Even in fag friendly Europe they just make around 5% of the population and that is after their own pozzed statistics that love to inflate their numbers by using the B in LGBT, which stands for bisexuals.

This is fucking hilarious, because if you have ever observed real Homosexuals, they fucking hate Bisexuals and treat them like some kind of traitors.

Then you have the fact that the male homosexuals and the female homosexuals have their own separate communities, the only place you see them together is at Pride Parades and that the T for Trannies in LGBT make up less than 0,01% of these 5% and they also have their own separate community.

So in reality you will have to market your product to three different communities of people, who without the bisexuals have problems to reach even 3% of the total population and for these not even 3% you are willing to piss off the majority of the population, that is normal/conservative and wants nothing to do with these people.



Don't forget, there are also fat hats, dickless numales, and girls who read gay fanfic that eat shit like this up , but yeah, even then they're preaching to a minority of a minority.



They're banking on the extreme left theory that there are a lot of people out there whoare LGBT friendly and will play their queer game for wokebux.



>never played 4e is it good

The simple answer is "Depends on what you want out of D&D."

Historically the hierarchy of importance for D&D has been:

1. Exploration of the world and dungeons to find treasure

2. Interaction between the player characters

3. Combat and avoiding combat

4. Engaging with the setting lore

5. Engaging with the characters of the world

Most D&D's feel like a version of that, shuffling the lower tiers here and there. 4E however, is as follows:

1. Engaging in combat to win treasure

2. Exploring dungeons to find combat encounters

3. Interaction between the player characters

4. Engaging with the world via non-player characters

5. Exploration

So, if you're big on dungeon crawling and don't really care much about simulationist gaming, then you can find fun in D&D4.

If the phrase "Highly Cinematic Epic Fantasy Superheroics" sounds fun to you, you found your game.



>the last last last last people you want to sell to are the LGBT

I think you're making a small error here. Most homosexuals are normal people, who behave normally, and the only real difference between them and regular people is that they stick dildos and penises up their arse. Things labeled "LGTB" are not aimed at homosexuals, but at SJWs and at people that still fall for the media's guilt trip.

Sage cause unrelated to thread topic and I don't want to turn this into yet another political thread



>I think you're making a small error here. Most homosexuals are normal people, who behave normally, and the only real difference between them and regular people is that they stick dildos and penises up their arse.

Nah I didn't make an error and I call your claim wrong. Why? Because both my real life contact with homosexuals and my research of studies about how homosexuality in humans develops tell me otherwise.

Homosexuality is a symptom of mental illness and this is pretty much easily observable in every faggot I have ever meet, they all have abnormal behavior and all their bodies/faces look like they suffer some kind of long term sickness. There is no such thing as a normal or natural homosexual.

Despite this fact that everyone can learn on his own, these people have(partially with massive encouragement and sponsoring from Leftists) build their identity around this symptom and defend it aggressively.

>Things labeled "LGTB" are not aimed at homosexuals, but at SJWs and at people that still fall for the media's guilt trip.

Easily disproven by Pride Parades. There is no need for them, yet they get sponsored by the LGBT organizations and all the faggots in the surrounding regions take part in it to live out their degeneracy in the open.


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This has been a thing for nearly forty years.



Might want to read the whole thread before posting, sport.




Fuck, I suck cocks. No more drunkposting for me.


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B/X and BECM isn't even "dumbed-down", it's simply the continuation of OD&D. It just looks "dumbed-down" because AD&D overcomplicated everyfuckingthing so they could run tournaments with the same set of minutia instead of every DM interpreting the rules how he saw fit based on a more abstract set of guidelines.

Now by virtue of that, you end up with games that work/behave very differently in practice, even though they're all lumped into the Dungeons & Dragons family. That means if you enjoy claasic B/X or "light" AD&D 2nd edition (without all the class supplements, etc.) as I do, you might not like full autismo rules like by-the-book AD&D 1st edition, d20, and so on.

Oh interesting thing too: the rules booklets that come with SSI's AD&D Gold Box series are kind of a cross between B/X and AD&D. I kind of wish I had gotten into those games back then, would have been fun to actually DM with that "edition".

But now the world has moved on, and I don't care whatsoever about anything past 2nd editon, and even the OSR stuff seems boring to me, except for Swords & Wizardry. But yeah, I'll never play again in a group, it's obvious nobody likes the classic stuff like me anymore. It's just some nice memories for me now, just like Amiga computers, arcades, pinball machines, and other stuff from that era.



2e is fucking garbage.

I hate 2e.

I wish more people played BECMI

Joking aside, BECMI already is the perfect edition of the game for newcomers and for someone like me who has extensively played 2e and loves it, it's a very refreshing edition for how simple and straightforward it is with it's rule set. Everytime I try to homebrew my ideal D&D it always ends up looking more like BECMI than I like to admit


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I like both BECMI/RC and 2e.



Bearded dwarf woman go back much further than Jackson, anon. See pic related, this is from the 1980 tournament module "A1 Slave Pits of the Undercity". There on the right hand side of the pic is a bearded dwarf female (and is specifically one since the artist confirmed it a while later and other renditions of said bearded dwarf appeared in other artwork of the A series modules).


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> Dragon's Breath

> City Mint

> Happy Hobbit

> Winer... wait, what? Bakdafukup!

> Happy Hobb...

Woah there, can't have any Tolkien(TM) Hobbits(R) without ponying up some big moolah! Gonna be hearing from my lawyers, you will.



Too bad, too late.


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BECM? Just play red box D&D with cheap dice



>Temple of Bane

>Amidst what looks like ruins

Did the fire rise there?


>playing amerimutt "games"

lmao, what a bunch of cucks

you might as well bash your balls with a hammer and inject soy directly into your eyeballs




I think the temple existed before the city got wrecked by orcs, goblins, a dragon and a lot of other evil monsters and humanoids.


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In the game manual it says the "Old Temple" was taken over and converted by Bane worshippers (presumably the monsters?)



Thanks! Missed that in the manual reread. Also

>Gold Box D&D Games best D&D video game hands down



>Probably, but that is not good enough evidence to prove the counterpoint wrong. D&D5E, regardless of perceived or actual quality, is not dying.

It's a stillborn zombie.

> It is insanely popular with the normies and casuals who have always propped up the industry, and just barely good enough to keekping the old grogs who don't have an OSR group from dropping the hobby.

Is it? Or is this "All Progressive Humanity Says #OrangeManBad" sort of advertisement?

3e was crap, but it truly got splattered everywhere.

4e was such ridiculous crap that even WoWfags who ate 3e didn't buy it.

Did 5e expand anything like 3e, or at all, or merely catch 3.x market before it died out completely?


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BTW if you want text version of the manuals (for easy searching or whatever), lemonamiga.com has them, at least the ones that got ported to Amiga. The were actually *typed* by hand back in the day by crackers and pirates, rather than scanned, so it's all free of OCR errors and glitches.

http://www.lemonamiga.com/games/list.php?list_publisher=TSR Inc.

It used to be you could also get typed C64 manuals from a site called Project 64 at http://project64.c64.org, but it seems dead and gone. I have an old backup of all their files (170 megs of text files!) but pretty much all the D&D related stuff in there is on the lemonamiga site anyway.

Pic is kinda funny: they used to also sell these character generators and other DM tools for AD&D. Well we just wrote our own in BASIC back then, it wasn't very hard.



What even are you talking about?


The more I read up on BECMI, the more I despise 5e. How the fuck is it that basic D&D has a simpler character sheet, and less options, but still feels more robust than 5e's "You'll take a subclass at around level 3 or so, but if you take anything other than this particularly overpowered one, you're fucking yourself" system. 5e basically feels like a boardgame.


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Coming from someone who has played a lot of both systems, trust me, 5e isn't stale and while there are trap options (beastmaster ranger for instance) but BECMI has many issues itself. If you're a fighter, you NEED to use a sword because 90% of all magic weapons will be swords. The demihumans are fun to play in the first few levels of play but then people get bored and worn out with them because there are only so many things they can do later on without needing to accrue millions of XP while Humans go on and on and on basically. And thief skill progression is shit when stretched out over 36 levels.

Now, can you take BECMI, adjust it here and there and make it better than 5e? Yes you can! And there are a number of clones that do just that!

In any event, play for fun, don't ever let the rules try to box you in. Improvise, innovate, RAI and not RAW.


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>tfw I'll never find a group that'll let me play a wendigo-esque, circle of spores druid because everyone has more paladin and cleric friends.

Why do the living persecute us so?

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