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File: d104ed90531ead2⋯.jpg (136.6 KB, 774x1032, 3:4, 6c85b3047fda10e1720d4f0bf9….jpg)

 No.405478

I'm running Out of the Abyss, and last night my 2nd level players encountered Demogorgon himself as a result of a story event. Most were struck with various forms of madness, and the ones who weren't too debilitated managed to drag the others out of immediate danger. One of them however got caught out in the open alone, and since I felt that an instakill would be a bit harsh this early in the campaign, I opted instead to cast Enfeeble Mind on him with a DC of 23. The Prince of Demons then cackled maniacally and moved on to destroy the entire Kuo-toa village.

So that character now has an intelligence and charisma of 1, which leaves him unable to comprehend language. Luckily he's a fighter so his combat effectiveness isn't diminished at all. The player was pretty salty but everyone at the table was cracking up, including me. Did I done good fa/tg/uys?

 No.405479

>When is it preferable to kill your players?

Whenever you have the chance.

The weak and stupid must be culled.

Atleast this cripple will not live long.


 No.405480

>DM vs player mentality

>permanent damage at level 2 with no recourse

>letting a player with 1 int have the mental capacity to wield a weapon effectively

You're a shitty DM


 No.405481

>>405480

There is recourse, it's called Greater Restoration


 No.405488

>>405478

>When is it preferable to kill your players?

When they deserve to die.


 No.405493

Personally, I think of my games as trials. If the players succeed as well as I expected them, they get a reward. If they surpass my expectations (I usually include places that are especially difficult but which the party is completely free to skip as they do not relate to the main objective, and which hold great treasures and sometimes even world-changing encounters) they get extra reward. If they do poorly, they usually end up breaking even or even lose gear and similar shit. If they are abysmally retarded, the game kills them.


 No.405499

>>405493

I think that's a good policy. The thing about OotA is that it's meant to be a harrowing struggle where the characters consistently elude death by the skin of their teeth. This chapter was actually pretty easy for them since fish-men have pretty bad stats. It's my first time DM'ing so I'll definitely have to learn to tweak the difficulty.

With regards to the guy in question, I'm thinking about making him switch class to barbarian and lose proficiency with anything that's not a blunt weapon. It would definitely make sense thematically but I'm worried it might make the player kvetch even worse.


 No.405502

>>405499

The player is obviously upset, so why not talk to him about it? He's probably worried he'll end up lagging behind the rest of the group and become everyone's doormat due to low INT. If you can outline to him a way for his character to still be fun to play and not be the group's weakpoint, he'll likely turn around and get over it. You gotta realise that if he planned to RP his character in some way, you pretty much threw it out the window with this move as he's now destined to RP a retard.


 No.405503

>>405478

Most players will accept death when they feel it's been well earned and that their own actions played a role in things. Dropping a super powerful creature on the party, giving them debilitations, and then making one of the players retarded instead of killing them doesn't sound fair. It sounds like you got too tied up in waving your DMpeen around and instead of stopping yourself, you suddenly decided it was better to stick to the rules for this unwinnable encounter.


 No.405505

File: aac018cb295c502⋯.jpg (175.34 KB, 970x545, 194:109, Dungeon-Master.jpg)

>>405503

You may be right. He didn't exactly earn death (he was trying to help another party member) so I felt bad about killing him. That said I still wanted for there to be consequences for his folly and drive home the existential threat of the big bad. I thought this status effect would make for a unique RP experience but maybe I overdid it.

I still think it's fucking hilarious though


 No.405507

>>405505

Honestly, it is kind of hilarious, and if it was something that the player had a hand in picking for himself, with the understanding that it was something that could be undone later, it may have been fine.


 No.405516

File: d3f615b87199281⋯.png (372.75 KB, 666x666, 1:1, jashin-chan shock.png)

>>405478

>When is it preferable to kill your players?

You are talking about their characters, right?


 No.405518

>>405478

Do you want actually applicable advice or an autistic overview of why you should theoretically kill a character?


 No.405519

>>405507

Well, they had four rounds to run while the demon lumbered to the shore like Godzilla, and he was actually the only player who hadn't received any madness effects.

I forgot to mention that there's an NPC that he's controlling as well, so his rp capability isn't totally out the window. His character is kind of like a beast companion now.

Anyone have more suggestions on how I can make the experience more enjoyable for him without having to retcon myself?


 No.405521

File: 55d4fe8698283e9⋯.jpeg (88.42 KB, 542x672, 271:336, 1459691330116.jpeg)

>>405516

If you die in real life...

You die in the game.

It depends, if debbie gogo appeared as part of scripted narration then you should only kill them if that too is part of the plot. If this was CoC or the temple of elemental evil then ok, those are meat grinders on purpose. Having your 2nd lvl party stumble onto debbie is like having them sail into a hurricane or be struck by lightening, unsatisfying.


 No.405523

>>405519

>>405478

He has a debilitation that can be cured by the use of magic. If he really cares about it, the party can go off to find someone that can fix it up for them. They can ask around, find someone who can do the cure; then they can go find the guy, and either pay, or get some sort of quest do a 1-page dungeon or whatever and get some item for the guy so he'll do something for them. The game moves on.

What happens to players should happen as a reaction to their actions and/or inaction. If the players put themselves into a situation where a demon price showed up, then if bad shit happens, that's on them. That stated, story events are a fucking cancer. Don't try to tell stories at the table-top, it's fucking stupid and only faggot hipsters like that shit. Story comes after the fact, not before. Be organic.

Fact - There's no such thing as "accepting death". Death happens when it happens. People die for random shit all the fucking time. Death is a condition where the result is you roll a new character.


 No.405526

>>405519

Best to insist it was on purpose at this point.

Party needs to get a thing inside a forest covered in explosive runes and only he can get it cause he forgot how to read?

They find a sweet ass talking/cursed sword in the ruins of the village that convinces people to kill themselves/others hannibal style. But he can use it cause he doesn't understand the thing?

Make him immune to illusions? Like he's so stupid the spells don't register him as human and he can lead the party through an illusionary maze by pointing and grunting.

Its possible have fun with a "me ugg, ugg strong" type fighter and it takes a fair bit of processing power to pretend to be retarded. Thats a big narrative shift that your player had no say in however. What was his int before?


 No.405527

>>405526

I think it was around 10. He wasn't planning on going Eldritch Knight afaik. Since the campaign takes place in the Underdark I'm thinking it will give him some kind of special immunity to Mindflayer attacks, or at least make them totally disinterested in him.


 No.405536

I like it. Best to introduce the upside in the next session or so, characters that annoy their players tend to die on their own. If you don't have any wizards in the party then a headband of intellect wouldn't go amiss, so he isn't just grunting at the table.


 No.405557

File: f23543f4a302768⋯.png (43.28 KB, 409x406, 409:406, f23543f4a302768fe6835a4439….png)

>Playing in a new campaign, only level 2

>Made a fighter because party needs a fighter, nice but simple character that's enjoyable to roleplay in a grimdark world

>I like my fighter

>DM is railroading us on the story again and in the end we're face to face with the fucking Prince of Demons

>We're level two

>DM starts rolling lots of dice and laughing at us, describing how we immediately start going insane because we were stupid enough to let him railroad us to the Demogorgon

>I'm the only one who doesn't go insane, so I start trying to help the rest of them escape from this bullshit so we can get back to the game

>DM rolls more dice, tells me that his boner Prince of Demons casts enfeeble mind on my fighter

>Fail the save because level 2 fighter

>DM tells me that my character is now retarded and the entire village I was trying to help is destroyed

>WhatTheFuckingFuck.jpg

>DM starts laughing at me for not being happy that I have to roleplay as a retard

>Tell the other guys at the table that this is stupid and not fun

>Everyone else starts laughing because "haha, he said retard"

>Later on the DM tells me not to be so upset because he'll let me play as an NPC and control my own character like a pokemon

>DM tells me to suck it up, after all he was being nice since he "felt that an instakill would be a bit harsh this early in the campaign"

Should I bother trying to improve this group, /tg/? No tabletop is better than bad tabletop, right?


 No.405558

File: b2211b13707ce9c⋯.jpg (19.46 KB, 474x443, 474:443, th (37).jpg)

>>405557

I knew you'd turn up in here you damn autistic Jew


 No.405560

File: f11bc53f1fb3938⋯.jpg (18.79 KB, 382x292, 191:146, f11bc53f1fb3938f02f6fb437a….jpg)

>>405557

>No tabletop is better than bad tabletop, right?

...

>DM tells me that my character is now retarded and the entire village I was trying to help is destroyed

You deserved it honestly.


 No.405580

>>405557

Cast enfeeble mind on the DM via bullet.


 No.405588

File: d99aa2e1798b447⋯.png (76.93 KB, 188x264, 47:66, 2_int.png)

>>405557

<not realizing that the dm has given you the greatest of boons


 No.405620

>>405519

>>405505

>Only one member of the party has autonomy because you forced the rest of them to sit still doing nothing while you narrate how cool and scary and badass you are

>The one player decides to try and help the other members of the party because the game is supposed to be about the party

>You punish him for not being a That Guy asshole who ditches the party and forces everyone else to have to reroll their characters

You're such a shit DM, OP. You're not making there be "consequences for his folly," you decided that the party was in a terrible position they had no chance against and then punished them for being in a terrible position. What the hell did you see as his proper course of action? What, as a player, sitting at a table with his friends, was he supposed to do? Run away and leave the rest of them to die, meaning that the story now needs to follow his character while everyone else tears up their character sheets and pretends they didn't want to play the characters they made? He, unfortunately, seems to have trusted in your ability to not be a trash DM and went along with the story he thought you were crafting so that the big baddie could move the plot along for the entire party by giving them all a mission, teleporting them all somewhere new, revealing some strange plot point, or something. Anything. But no, it turns out you had nothing planned and no actual reason to present them with an unbeatable villain except to show off how powerful you are in a game of pretend, and then went further by ruining his enjoyment of the game- not just in that session but for the entire rest of the campaign. Great job man, that'll teach those damn players to make choices or think about the fun of the other players! They'll want to do what you want them to do, or else!


 No.405623

>>405620

They had a choice faggot. The walked right into a scenario of offering themselves to be sacrificed by fucking fish people. I did not railroad them and went out of my way to tease alternate routes. I didn't even write this adventure, I'm using it because (as I said) it's my first time DMing, and of the books that WotC has put out it's the most open-ended. Eat my entire fucking ass.


 No.405625

>>405623

It is your fault. You're the GM, that means you have total responsibilty for your table whether you like it or not. It's your fault for choosing a shit railroaded adventure, it's your fault for sticking to said shit railroaded adventure, and it's your fault that your players are mad at you for running a shit railroaded adventure. I hope you feel powerful winning a game of make-believe while four other neckbeards twiddle their thumbs.


 No.405630

File: 007a4ce9b490260⋯.png (35.62 KB, 512x512, 1:1, wewladtoast.png)

>>405625

>players choose to take part in a demonic summoning ritual

>I'm somehow railroading them by having the demon actually get summoned


 No.405632

>>405623

For a first time GM, you want a module that's self contained and moderately linear without absolute kills on low level parties. It's for learning rules, scenario management, and basic GM skills.

Don't know what edition you were running, but if you want A strong, expansive starter module I recommend The Sunless Citadel for 3/3.5e


 No.405633

File: f65575ba3c3d96b⋯.png (78.16 KB, 480x480, 1:1, Deal with the Devil.png)

>>405623

>Horrifying Demon Prince shows up at beach and sees party left out to be the yearly sacrifice

<What is the meaning of this, this is not what was agreed upon. Where is [Fish people chief], I demand my sacrifice

>Players, now able to move and talk at the whim of the Demon Prince, realize that they've been betrayed and were intended to be sacrifices of the people they had been trying to help

<Yes... I feel your anger, your lust for vengeance. I was promised four souls, and four souls I shall have - but they need not be yours. Take my blessing, and deliver upon them our mutual desires. Four for your own lives, and the rest... the rest shall purchase you power.

>Players, now buffed or given temporary magic items by the Horrifying Demon Prince, get to go full Anakin on the fishfucks, having fun and feeling like player characters

>HDP laughs as the village goes down in flames/drowns in its own blood

>or maybe they only kill the chief and enough of them to secure their freedom, allowing them to leave with a well-earned hatred of fish people and the notice of a big baddie so powerful their lives are nothing more than numbers to him

At the end of my adventure, the fighter has the groundwork for serious character development by seeing what happens when he tries to help others, the promise of a villain that if they kill more fish people in his name that he will grant the fighter demonic powers, and a potential moral dilemma of whether they're justified to kill other unrelated tribes of fishpeople. The player may be able to convince the rest of the party to go along with his plan to commit demonic genocide in order to become powerful, if evil, beings.

At the end of your adventure, the fighter has become a mental retard, unable to act or even think for himself. The player may be able to convince the rest of the party to go along with his plan to try and find a way of aiding his level 2 character in order to return him to his regular level 2 self.


 No.405634

>>405630

>last night my 2nd level players encountered Demogorgon himself as a result of a story event.

>players choose to take part in a demonic summoning ritual

So which is it?


 No.405643

>>405526

>it takes a fair bit of processing power to pretend to be retarded.

No it doesn't, but it can be fun anyway. I went through a whole campaign at 4 INT, never saying a word above three syllables, and usually deferring the mental tasks to "bossman Fizzy" the goblin. When people got stuck at a puzzle, I'd frown at it and hit it with a maul to try and make it stop being a puzzle.


 No.405648

>>405634

The appearance of Demogorgon was scripted but only occurs under certain conditions. Namely, the party siding with the archpriest in the power struggle against his daughter. They could have snuck in and stole a boat/supplies, fought their way in directly, or just fucked off in a different direction entirely. There was no quest or story objective requiring them to try and help the fishfolk aside from a promise of riches. The party's main concern through the campaign is survival. I think that chapter is meant to make them wary of blindly meddling in the affairs of any random faction they meet


 No.405656

File: 3b670512d31c479⋯.png (207.16 KB, 600x849, 200:283, 76aab19aea64427cad074754ba….png)

The effects of the potion begin to fade and the world starts to fray at the edges. I was never much of a scholar, or a lover, but these little things seem more precious as I loose them.

The pewter clasp my father gave. The elfs sad smile. The nursery rhyme me mum sungd when I were... when I weren't so old. Peice by pees. I dunkt undergand.

It feels.like dying


 No.405659

>>405648

Man, people actually run these pre-written adventures? Seems too rigid to me. I prefer singular dungeons or areas with stories behind them.


 No.405662

I disagree with y'all shitting on OP over putting them in front of a hostile demogorgon. The party made a choice and it bit them in the ass – that's alright. If every choice ended in something positive or in some sort of a copout such as the demon randomly deciding to struck a deal with some shitters instead of just obliterating them, it would render choices meaningless. If the players fuck up, let them eat said fuck up.

Usually, when my players do this shit, I give them an opportunity to save their asses by simply fleeing (which the OP seems to have done too, saying he gave them 4 rounds to escape which is plenty. I assume he let even players afflicted by madness flee). If the players decide to stare and obvious TPK in the eyes instead, then, well, that's on them.


 No.405666

>>405662

If I were OP's player, I would have preferred that my fighter just get killed off rather than him "graciously" letting me survive as a retard in a new class. At least, assuming this was a serious game. If we're going full murderhobo, then I'm basically playing a retard with a stick anyway, so what's the difference in doing it literally?


 No.405673

>>405666

Yeah, that was OP cucking out. He should have just instakilled and had that be the heroic sacrifice that spares the lives of the rest of the group or something – I'd happily take a permanent debuff for a character I care about deeply, but for something on lvl2? I'd rather make a new one.


 No.405674

>>405662

You seem to be treating the situation more like this is unfolding in a CYOA book than a tabletop game. OP laid out some choices to the group: Side with Archpriest, Side with Daughter, Sneak into a boat, Fight, and Fuck off somewhere else, and then gave them the agency to chose what they wanted to do. Of course different choices will lead to different conclusions, some of which will be better or worse than others, but making such a seemingly arbitrary choice (there was, according to OP, "no quest or story objective requiring them to try and help the fishfolk aside from a promise of riches") have such a stupidly important consequence ("All but one of you die with no roll to save yourselves, or one of you has to become a retard") is something that you can only do with a medium where you can reach that end result and say "well that's not any fun at all" and turn back to make another choice. If OPs campaign was a book it actually is a book, he's running a premade module so it is quite literally all scripted and railroaded then the players could sit down to read through it in an afternoon, have some laughs about when fighter got his guy turned into a retard, and then go home having had a good time together.

But this is a tabletop, and these guys are probably meeting one night a week, and it may go on for months, and nobody gets to turn back the clock. OP is telling one of his players, a guy that must at least be an acquaintance, and hopeful a friend, that for the few hours a week he has set aside to have some fun roleplaying with his buddies, he's stuck having to sit around watching everyone else have fun because he has to pretend to be a retard now. That's such a smack in the face. He even raised his concerns with the issue when it happened, but OP laughed him down and has told us he still thinks he made the right call, and doesn't want to "have to retcon" himself. Why would this guy even want to come back to the table next session? Does anyone really expect his time to be so worthless that he can waste an evening watching other people play D&D? People who all seem happy to laugh at how his character and connection to the game were brutally ruined because of a choice the party made on a random sidequest when they were level 2?


 No.405675

>>405674

Well I'd never make a bad choice be an arbitrary one – I'd foreshadow and drop hints. If they fail to pick up on them or just ignore them, then they get fucked. As a player, I can't stand these no-fail kind of adventures where the DM bends over backwards to shield me from the consequences of my bad decisions. Such adventures are boring as fuck. I want the thrill of knowing I really will lose my character if I fuck up, if I make a stupid decision, if I fail to notice something important. Every battle I manage to pull through by the skin of my teeth, while knowing the DM did not spare me but that it really was my own tactics and luck that saved me, is a battle that I remember fondly and an adventure that I've enjoyed. I don't want the DM to baby me – I want him to give me a chance, and if I fail to make good on that chance, to punish me as appropriate, without doing me the dishonesty of pretending I did well when he, in fact, fudged dice to make me win or secretly rewrote parts of the story to make it easier on my character. I, in turn, offer the same courtesy when it's my turn to DM.

That being said he really should have just killed the fighter instead of making him retarded. If I were the player, I'd retire the character immediately.


 No.405677

>>405675

This is why OP had a session 0 to tell everybody what kind of game he was planning to run and that he wasn't going to pull any punches, right? Surely he would confirm that his players like a hardcore game where every choice matters and death is courted at every turn? Right?


 No.405678

>>405677

You'll have to ask OP about that one.


 No.405687

>>405677

Yes. The adventure starts with the PCs imprisoned in a Drow outpost. No equipment, no nothing. The casters don't even have components or spell focii. I made sure they knew what they were getting into.

>>405675

I gave quite a bit of warning. Each long rest one or two characters was waking up in a cold sweat from dreams filled with foreboding symbolism. The party had to kill a patrol of fishmen before even getting to the town ffs, and one of the NPCs with them communicated that they called him a heretic and wanted to sacrifice them all to their dark god.

I realize that I fucked up. The worst part is that this kid is the one who's hosting us every week, and he has a (((really nice house)))

Frankly speaking, if I were in his shoes and a 30-foot demon lord walked up to me just to leave me unscathed, I would think that was super fucking gay. The fun for me as a player comes from riding the line of danger; the Sword of Damocles if you will. Even in this situation I'd try to have fun with it, but I also put a lot of thought into my characters before I ever get around to playing them, so I might be more willing than most to put up with shit. Sunk cost fallacy and all that.

I only got into this hobby like five months ago, but it's clear now that not everyone likes playing the way I do, and I should take that into account as DM while still maintaining a consistent tone for the adventure.


 No.405693

>>405478

You should never kill your players, only their characters.


 No.405700

File: 5c937f62d6b5bf3⋯.png (243.83 KB, 720x722, 360:361, 1053f7826cf11a35757dcfe9c0….png)

>>405693

Unilaterally precommitting to not killing even ONE of your players is a rookie mistake. Don't box yourself in like that anon.


 No.405784

File: 013ab12cc3ec058⋯.png (236.04 KB, 500x748, 125:187, do-not-offend-the-chair-le….png)

>>405557

>Should I bother trying to improve this group, /tg/?

If you want to use sap gloves and/or a chair leg, sure why not?


 No.405845

File: 97e6b52c75751dc⋯.jpg (67.14 KB, 399x560, 57:80, for what purpose.jpg)

>>405478

>I felt that an instakill would be a bit harsh this early in the campaign, I opted instead to cast Enfeeble Mind on him with a DC of 23.

Why would you ever do that? Permanent stat damage is treated more seriously then dieing especially if you just let the player erase the name of his character and scribble a new one. Hell you could of even just put him at -1HP then just fudge the numbers while being dramatic about the whole situation.

Now he's stuck because you thought Feeble Mind is better then death.


 No.405849

>>405845

>Princess acquires magical disease

>Better to cast Statis/Imprisonment on her until a cure is found


 No.405855

I got my first character smitten in a TPK caused by a random critfail, and I'm still somewhat salty about it. Now that I am a forever GM, I have the conviction not to kill players unless they severely fuck up on their own. By that I mean:

>instadeath traps are foreshadowed, and designed for the characters to be found

>I usually send warning shots whenever the players make a less than optimal decision

>They usually have a face saving option at almost all times, unless they have severely fucked up

>TPK usually results in a rollback, because my players do not know chargen and fuck spending another weekend helping them build new ones

Surprise killing or crippling your characters is pretty ghey and should be avoided. It is one of those no fun allowed features tabletop gaming has, and people replicate because they think it's hardcore, when it's just cheap. I guess they got the idea from some deep seated trauma with the Tomb of Horrors or something.


 No.405873

>>405855

>"Don't worry guys, if you fuck up, I'll just retcon and we'll try again :^)"

I don't think I'd play with you if you paid me. Fucking hell, what's the fucking point of even having combat in the game if you cannot lose?


 No.405888

>>405873

Well, I am not using a mindless dungeon grinder system, so the campaign is mostly social, and individual deaths, or deserved deaths in combat are accounted for.

My players can't give a fuck about learning the chargen rules, so if they want high lethality, they better grab a copy of the manual and all my patches and read it thoruoughly. I wouldn't let you play in my game even if you played if you demanded high lethality while making me re-read you the manual for the seventh time because you can't be bothered to make the charsheets yourself.


 No.405889

>>405888

That second played should be "paid". My mistake.


 No.405910

>>405481

>Hit lvl2 players with permanent gimping, making one of the characters so dumb he literally can't talk anymore

>They get angry with you

>Why are you bitching out? Just cast Greater Restoration

>Sure, it's a 7th level spell, but if you can't cast like a level 13 cleric at this point in the game then you're just a scrub!

>Anyway, you're a fighter, it doesn't matter if you're dumber than a house cat.

<Come to 8chan /tg/, "Why do my players hate me?"

Gee OP, I can't for the life of me figure out why they would. They must just be assholes to hate such an awesome GM as yourself!


 No.405914

>>405910

Clearly OP's intention was to inspire the party to undertake an epic and arduous journey to restore the fighter's wits and memories.

This would be fine, if anybody gave a shit about the fighter, but nobody will be attached to a level 2 scrub. By the time they sucked a high level cleric to completion, they'd all have jumped up 4 or 5 levels, assuming OP didn't kill them all because his book told him to.


 No.405917

>>405910

From the sound of it it's just the one player who's getting shafted and everyone else is laughing at him for it. I hope he quits the game and finds a new group with a GM who isn't so much of a raging faggot that he pulls shit like that then comes to /tg/ to plead for validation.


 No.405920

>>405917

This. Remember that there's not a "wrong" way to play roleplaying games, but everyone has their own preferred ways; if everyone at the table is looking for a game where characters are easily debilitated and destroyed, and will laugh at the idea of someone becoming retarded, then they should go right ahead and enjoy their game. OP may seem like a shit DM to a majority of people, but if he finds a full group of players who enjoy him then he doesn't need to change, and certainly shouldn't go looking for external validation. The problem comes from different and mutually exclusive views clashing with each other. OP has the choice of adapting the style and tone of his game to better fit at least what the fighter's player is more looking for, or telling the guy that this is the kind of story he's going to tell, and if he isn't interested in that then he should look for a different game.

Which choice OP takes will depend on a lot of interpersonal factors. We know that they're playing at fighter's house, but we don't know if the whole group are friends outside of tabletop, if they get along outside the game, and just what kind of game fighter IS looking for. The only certainty about the situation moving forwards is that OP needs to man up and talk to his players like an adult, instead of laughing at objections and treating someone like the butt of the joke.


 No.405921

>>405888

You're just a faggot playing a faggot system. It takes literally less than 5 minutes for me to roll up a character with randomized gear and abilities if I need to make henchmen, and even my most retarded player only needs 10 minutes.


 No.405922

>>405849

You don't understand what happens when you reach ability score 0, with the exception of Con you basically get put into a state called "helpless" and it is exactly what it implies. If the Fighter had even one point lower in either Int or Cha then the Fighter would be out of the game permanently. When Con reaches 0 you just straight up die.


 No.405924

File: fac018c63efe3d4⋯.jpg (57.97 KB, 700x350, 2:1, xanathars guide preview.jpg)

>Running a 5e Monster-Hunting campaign.

>This is the party's fourth adventure and I have made it quite clear that resting is very regimented in this game, and that it is always more dangerous to rest outside of safe areas or for longer than seems safe than to push on with less supplies.

>They experienced this first-hand trying to rest in the woods in the last adventure, where they got run off by a Gorgon while trying to tend their wounds in the open.

>The players are now hunting a pair of Ogres that came down from the mountains with their posse of Half-Ogres.

>The party is making their way to a landmark in the forest, a large tree, to rest and locate the Ogres' cave.

>They find the aforementioned tree, cleanse it of enemies, and settle down as it begins to glow softly. This offers them a safe place to rest.

>I explicitly state that the leaves are quickly losing their glow, and that the protective aura of the tree will only last for 1~2 hours (a short rest).

>The players, having gotten better at combat but still being miserable at resource management, decide that they will take a long rest since they blew almost all of their spell slots and rages against 3 Hard/Medium encounters for their level.

>I describe the tree losing its glow, and how the darkness of the woods returns, leaving them vulnerable. I ask them again if they are sure they would like to rest.

>The party's cleric 'calls my bluff' and tells me that they are going to take and complete the long rest.

>Shrug and ask who is taking second watch while I roll on my personal encounter table. I roll a "Deadly Encounter, Single Creature" and start thumbing through the books to find one of the monsters that caught my interest previously.

>Describe some lore about this fancy 'leyline tree' to stall until I find the stat block. Suddenly, it glows with a dark, eldritch violet and the cleric wakes the party.

>They decide to hide in the nearby tree, weapons drawn, instead of fleeing. A portal opens in the tree, and violence is seen on the other side as a hooded figure with a single wound escapes, shutting it behind himself.

>Instead of fleeing from this figure, who they just caught a glimpse of in heated combat, they stay put. I describe the visible magical effects on his person, denoting a powerful spellcaster, and then him spotting them, summoning a weapon, and announcing his intent to kill them.

>The party drops down, the cleric makes a melee attack against the figure, and is instantly struck to 0 HP by a magical effect protecting him (the hooded figure has a partially depleted Armor of Agathys from his previous combat, as well as Mage Armor and True Seeing).

>I describe the cleric's weapon striking true, only for ice to explode up her armor, leaving her a barely-living frozen statue. No attempts are made to identify the spells he is casting.

>The cleric is healed by the paladin, who tries to drag her off to safety only for her to resist. I rule he'll have to grapple her, but it won't take an action. He fails.

>The entire party squares up, except for the Rogue who books it into the fucking woods, having clearly realized things are beyond saving.

>In their infinite wisdom, the party keeps attacking this opponent obviously beyond their pay grade, only succeeding in making him drop concentration the Vampiric Touch he opened with to heal his pre-existing wounds via the paladin.

>The paladin hits, and the Armor of Agathys triggers again, instantly dropping him to 0. They haven't even broken his Temporary HP and he's healed his normal HP back to full by this point.

>The paladin is healed by the cleric who tries to shoo the figure with her holy symbol to little success, and the party's barbarian throws everything he has into grappling the enemy. All three continue to stand their ground.

>The grapple attempt, which fails, is enough for this dark figure to stop toying with them and start cleaning up. His first real attack critically hits the barbarian, doing enough damage to kill him instantly. No 0HP, no saves, just straight into the next character sheet.

>The paladin gets the hint, grabs the barbarian's body, and books it into the woods.

>The cleric doesn't get the hint, and proceeds to stand her ground. The enemy delivers a full round of attacks and then slams her with another melee attack while she's down. The paladin hears her go down for good as he runs into the darkness.

>Session ends with half the party fucking dead, and the rest running until they pass out from exhaustion in the woods.

You kill people when it's their fault for getting into a mess. When they understand the risk they are taking, and they tell you that they are making the decision, you follow through on it with them for good or ill.

My party actually can't wait to hunt down and kill the Shadar-kai warlock that wiped their party though, and I don't see that kind of excitement from them often.


 No.405926

File: cff6aa1ba470b1c⋯.jpg (341.67 KB, 600x600, 1:1, a85b26c855.jpg)

OP here. I did talk to the player and he's agreed to stick on with the character, with the understanding that if the shit drags on too long with no cure in sight I'll throw out a headband of intellect or something equivalent as a quest/combat reward. I'll probably rule that it merely returns his int to its original value rather than making him a 19 int genius. That said, his charisma will still be 1, which I think will still make for the humorous RP implications I was originally going for.

Right now my plan for next session is to have the party come upon a dwarven ruin which seems to have been the site of a horrendous battle, with skeletons littering the ground. I'll describe in detail how a great structure dominates the cavern, with dwarven runes reading "Hornblast Hall" carved above the entrance. They will (presumably) walk up the wide stairs littered with long-dead dwarves, and discover in the main hall the skeletal remains of a dwarf king, held upright by the numerous arrows between his ribs, embedded in the chair. Before him is a golden goblet engraved with the name "King Caldrun the Deaf".

Beside him will rest a large obsidian maul, from which emanates a barely perceptible whisper that seems to switch between every conceivable language, but no one can make out the words. Anyone who picks it up other than the resident retard will hear an overpowering voice saying "Maim... kill... destroy... I must drink..." and will be compelled to do so until forcibly separated from the weapon. At this point the numerous skeletons will rise as undead and attempt to avenge their fallen king once more.

So, if all goes well then fighter boi (he agreed to switch to Berserker btw) will come out of the encounter with a Maul of Life Stealing. Worst case scenario the healer picks it up, the party TPKs and someone who actually knows what they're doing can take over as DM.


 No.405929

File: fbe49a7ba4a5e15⋯.png (162.4 KB, 598x234, 23:9, download_20180827_164427.png)

>>405926

>someone who actually knows what they're doing can take over as DM.

Heh... nobody tell him.


 No.405933

>>405924

>The entire party squares up, except for the Rogue who books it into the fucking woods, having clearly realized things are beyond saving.

Properly roleplayed rogues are, in my experience, the wisest characters in any game


 No.405963

File: a68d5dd32d13524⋯.png (183.75 KB, 800x806, 400:403, this-is-not-fine-009-a7b6e….png)

>party has shit resource management

>still agrees willfully to do a resource-intense campaign

>gets wiped for trying to abuse long rests

>instead of getting the hint, decide to dig their heels in and whip out the trump card: Leomund's Tiny Hut

>DM is already messaging me (the only survivor of the last party) about how fucked the new party is

This was supposed to be a fun campaign and it's turning into a war of attrition between the DM's original idea for the setting and the will of the party to keep making new characters. is it bad that im enjoying it?


 No.405964

File: d8bb9c24c1da5fb⋯.gif (210.73 KB, 264x267, 88:89, 1434257813407.gif)

>>405963

You're the rogue aren't you >>405924


 No.406022

File: 42f49418e5fc7a0⋯.jpg (1.93 MB, 1649x2142, 97:126, d2f1a605992498a260ceade9bc….jpg)

>>405964

>lone survivor

>ignoring the paladin that survived with the rogue

I am just happy the paladin wasn't lawful stupid, but that's kind of the trend, they buck both extremes in games.


 No.406172

Unless the players did some overtly idiotic shit to get themselves into this situation, you're a faggot. The fact that you went all the way to 1 and not something more reasonable highlights this.


 No.406174

>>406172

Isn't 1 Int below even retards? He's literally dumber than a fucking dog. He should be in a coma or something.


 No.406182

>>405656

Are you RPing the 1 intelligence fighter regaining some sanity by drinking intelligence boosting potions and then describing how it feels as the effect fades?


 No.406184

>>406174

Anything below 3 is animal intelligence, IIRC. His character is functionally a vegetable.


 No.406188

>>406184

1 Int is on par with a Gelatenous Cube.

OP's fighter is so fucking stupid that he can't comprehend languages or know which end of a sword to hold. All of his 1 Int is directed towards bodily functions and literally nothing else. He's so retarded that he has no concept of memory, language, or time. I don't think OP understood just how retarded he made the fighter. I honestly think he might be too retarded to even have emotions. OP has on his hands a barbarian that can't conceptualize anger.

I cannot overstate how ludicriously fucking dumb having 1 Int makes you.


 No.406189

>>406184

>>406188

>Feeblemind

>The creature can’t cast spells, activate magic items, understand language, or communicate in any intelligible way. The creature can, however, identify its friends, follow them, and even protect them.

No specification on if they can identify themselves in a mirror, or have a sense of identity.


 No.406193

>>406189

The implication here is that Gelatenous Cubes can have and recognize friends.


 No.406209

File: 3982d636238e472⋯.jpg (67.99 KB, 720x960, 3:4, ecb7974233ed7a4b247be1caa9….jpg)

>>406182

That's a good idea, a way to kind of drip-feed him back to normal int. Together we decided that even when the effect is cured he'll stay a berserker, because the spell literally broke his mind. While he'll remember his identity and background, all his training as a fighter is gone along with his memory of the last few years, replaced with a pure and seething rage for what was taken from him.


 No.406211

>>406184

>>406188

>>406189

FYI you aren't officially a vegetable until 0 int, then you're essentially in what is called the "helpless" state which is basically several flavors of coma and paralysis (the 2 physical abilities which won't kill you at 0).


 No.406234

File: 19437419fdcedcf⋯.jpeg (23.15 KB, 600x600, 1:1, 19437419fdcedcfc63e6985c2….jpeg)


 No.406250

>>405926

>>406209

>I did talk to the player

>He agreed to switch to Berserker

>Together we decided

Hey, good job OP. As someone who was overtly critical of you, I'm glad to see that learned the most important lesson of a DM and talked to your players about the plot and their role in it. If you, the fight-barian, and (optionally) the rest of the party all agree casting enfeebling blast was a good, or at least interesting choice, then it was, and no one on the internet can tell you otherwise. You've been given a 2nd chance to let that player tell a powerful story with his character. Don't fuck it up.

It's important as a DM to, at least in the background, always remember that you are fundamentally in charge of the experience they have. Of course some will disagree with me and argue that looking at dice to decide everything is fun, but those people can sit alone and cheer to themselves whenever they roll above a 13 on a d20. Roleplaying games are about roleplaying, and by giving players opportunities to roleplay, especially after powerful failures, they can elevate the game to genuine care and emotion about the members of the party and the world they're in.

The best bit of DM advice I can give you is to repeatedly use this plot point in the future. That doesn't mean turning the rest of them into tards, but by making enfeebling ray (or a physically destructive ray) a signature of the their BBEG, you can make their campaign arc personal. Let them find/hear about a mystic who can restore people to their prior selves, or a magic item that does the same. Establish a helpful NPC who, if they don't see him for a few sessions, is enfeebled valiantly trying to protect others. Give the fight-barian a few opportunities to express his feelings about what the BBEG is doing, whether that's by saving random townsfolk, or mercy-killing people ala Arthas at Stratholme. Don't let a good character building moment go to waste - and drag it out as long as it can provide interesting results.


 No.406265

>>405926

>>406209

Note that if he's having a hard time RPing the 1int pokemon or the 1int is getting in the way you should point out and explain to him that Cha is also a mental attribute tied to Force of Personality and Sense of Self. He isn't just stupid he has such a low presence people ignore him and underestimate him as some forgettable bloke until he absolutely crushes them with brutal efficiency. You could give him the feat where everyone he attacks is flat footed when he strikes first for that.


 No.406354

>>405921

I already said I can make characters relatively quickly (even faster if it's non-optimal or doesn't follow full PC rules), but my players can't, and I have to read them the whole fucking manual every time they have to roll a new one, because they can't be bothered to read it on their own. What the fuck is wrong with you?

>my most retarded player only needs 10 minutes

lmao, what are you playing? Fucking Risus?


 No.406356

>>406354

His players probably read handbooks and similar things for their characters, or just used some software, a character template, and a shallow backstory.


 No.406810

File: 4d94f167105a0cb⋯.jpg (36.84 KB, 525x654, 175:218, 20190120.jpg)

>>405479

Cull the weak by decimation.




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