/undina/ -

Here's an archive of the board just before deletion for the nostalgiafags:

https://archive.is/FspsN

In addition, this board used to be archived by 8archive until somewhat recently for anyone who ever wants to dig into 8chan history.

If you find something different or better, let us know and link it here. I'm probably going to work on creating a new chan. I wanted to use Infinity Next, but at this rate, I might just use someone else's software. Lots of people are unhappy with how things are going.

>>1007

I will. I'm keeping an eye on Infinity.

I actually had the idea to make a chan for a sort of exodus some months before I heard of 8chan with its already complete and nice userbase. Had a domain registered, never got the time to write the codebase. I was going to make something from scratch, like Next. I'm not anything close to Josh's skill though, so I'll keep waiting for now.

If I do end up making one, it won't be as ambitious or good as 8chan. It would probably be a system where there had to be a demonstrated interest level in a proposed board (or a samefag with several proxies) for it to get initially created, cutting down on clutter. Also, a sandbox moderation thing so people wouldn't have to actually make a test board to try out moderation features.

Also, actual complete documentation.

Also, no IRC whatsoever.

If you're a regular in an unofficial IRC and I knew about it, that would be like an auto reject for any position of power. Including ownership of a new user-supported board.

So, in essence, it would actually be tyranny like Moot, but the tyranny would be extremely well-defined by solid rules for what could and couldn't happen, and everyone could look up the rules and know what they were guaranteed to be able to do and post and so on. Without absolute tyranny, users will always democratically strip themselves of freedom over time…8chan is like a mini, sped up simulation of the US. Honestly, the main problems on 4chan arose from having way too many rules that were never enforced EXCEPT WHEN THEY WERE DON'T COMPLAIN. Respect to HW for trying this out, but it doesn't look like he had the mental fortitude to see it all the way through, or never realized people would try to fuck with him based on the site's founding principles. I don't know. I probably wouldn't want to run a large imageboard, myself.

I doubt I'll find a better place than 8chan for theoretical user freedom, on paper, but if I can find somewhere without a mod cabal, a withdrawn admin, etc, I'll let you guys know.

I did make an /undina/ on 8ch.pl a while ago, but I don't think it has the bandwidth or disk space to act as a backup 8chan.

Updated archive of the more active /operate/ thread:

https://archive.is/AJHB7

Some thread that colossal faggot glasses flag guy made, which nonetheless contains some relevant information:

https://archive.is/Z4iW7

Sad to see you leave (or considering it)..

>mob rule

4chan user becomes 8chan mod?

Sadly, I think that's bound to happen on any imageboard of some size. The important thing is what happens afterwards of course.

>>1004

I guess i sorta underestimated just how much that thread would have bothered people. But just to clarify op, it was primarily the mob rule thread

that was the catalyst for this. Or would you say that was the straw that broke the camels back, and if so what other events led to this?

Besides those threads that glassesfag made, have you seen many other people express their dissatisfaction with that mob rule thread.

>>1010

I'll keep being the admin on /pee/ for now anyways as explained in the discussion thread there.

I also promise to bring the WebMs I've made (or more probably, compilations of them) and other stuff I posted here to the Hub when I finally get to a point where I can set that up well and reliably. In the meantime, sorry to people who missed them for now.

>>1011

Okay, long text inbound. Kind of weird for this to be posted on this little board with probably only people with the niche interests I had in mind ever reading it.

I really liked 8chan, I did. I still do. 4chan was never as good as 8chan is now, to be honest. It had periods where there was a far better noise-to-content ratio, but that's not the point. No one who can't filter through some noise either mentally or with the aid of software shouldn't be on an imageboard anyways.

There has been various faggotry on lots of boards before. It's true what Nunu says that the rules were never clarified for /b/, and everyone opposed that because it was seen as too "PC" and hotpocket by various people. The same sort of spirit that dominated all of the cringe-worthy stuff people would post in threads back on 4chan where we made successful GETs earlier on; though some of that was definitely angry mods spamming bullshit to keep people from leaving.

But it is also true that /b/ was initially controlled (and created, if I remember correctly) by Hotwheels, and that this was during the period of advertising to us on 4chan. Let's be honest, someone didn't randomly decide on 8chan, HW was a /pol/ regular and he and some people on 8chan advertised to the mingled joy and dismay of the old old userbase. One of the boards it got advertised on a lot was, of course, /b/. "You can say anything you want" was the headline, "you can make your own board" was the subtext. Naturally, the 4chan-named boards with sizeable immigrants got created or taken over by the most power-hungry people who left, not the people who cared about being left alone to discuss things. It was a failure mode I think a lot of people foresaw before they came here at all; I certainly did. But /b/ was HW's board, and he had made it what /b/ was always supposed to be…NO RUELZ. Again, I don't have the screenshot handy, but HW made that very public banning of the mod early on who said "lol admins can do whatever they want too". Even exposed his IP address in sarcastic pettiness and, let's be honest, a certain measure of hypocrisy. I always had my concerns about that sort of stuff, but on the other hand it showed a clear direction for /b/, one which nugger affirmed basically whenever he showed up through words or deeds. Even recently with Boox, though that was a really obvious case. Then this shit happens, and because it's notlily, HW is cloistered away having been intimidated or his feelings hurt or whatever by a variety of schizos or whatever, it's just fine.

Now, look, I don't go on the IRCs at all. I went to the general channel with random strings of characters for a name to report issues or ask questions a few times when the site was young, hung around a bit to shoot the shit and see if maybe there really would be an IRC that was decent.

Nope.

Like every other IRC channel and especially programming ones for some reason, it was the same old bullshit. Hollow smugness, mindless, uncreative, repetitive mockery of anything related to the IRC channel's actual topic, endless cock-sucking and obsession with their imaginary pecking order, and a bigass hugbox vibe including into their pretensions of apathy.

IRC is an awesome thing in its simplicity, but fuck at least 95% of all people who regularly use IRC in any non-work capacity.

So of course it was just "Haha muh free speech, haha fucking stormfags", when as anyone who's been watching knows, /pol/ has played their own significant part in trying to turn 8ch into their own rule-happy hugbox. So I was worried about that, about HW's vagueness on things, about how he would seem to have his legal shit together but in various IRC channels of course he would just be circlejerking with whoever, sniggering with Benji about /baphomet/'s latest le epic threat that got him a better response from an ISP, so on. But, for the most part, and despite being from the massive hugbox which Wizardchan always was, HW was someone I would tentatively trust. I admired him, then, for his dedication to the site and for being fairly consistent overall in his supposed viewpoints, plans, and ideas. I could have done without the humble bragging or endless indignant crusades against moot and the constant cancerous cry of "cuckchan", but hey, 8chan was really awesome. These were just cosmetic complaints.

(cont)

>>1012

I spammed Hitler pics, first just a 50hitler and then as many thumbnails as it took, in utterly shit threads months before Travis posting became the big thing. That was one of the few things me and Benji agreed on, actually, was the shit threads we would mutually spam. People act like this is supposed to be some form of user-hotpocketry, but not at all. It's simply a way to discourage shitty posters, just like posting gore or telling them to go back to Tumblr, or Gaia, or whatever. I have equal posting power as the shitty posters, and threads aren't sacred to the original topic or discussion, or any idea of quality. If a thread was shit to begin with ("LOL ROLL THREAD GUIS"), I don't feel bad about spamming it at all. If you can't deal with a little spam or seeing posts you don't like, wrong place to be. For anyone still wondering, yes, I am also the newer "thumbnail poster" with all of the Travis and random shit. I am also sometimes OP or that anon who dumps various stuff in some thread or other. I don't live on 8chan by any means, but while I am here I post as much as I lurk. This should all be in the past tense, of course, I've only been checking a few salient board and threads since I made the decision to conscientiously object. I used to see people arguing for more rules on various boards all the time, jokingly or not, and it didn't bother me. Sure, I'd argue back. Maybe the admins of those boards would put more rules in place. Whatever. You can always make your own boards. If someone's saying something I don't like, that's good. Means I'm not in a hugbox.

But mods just banning whoever on /b/ (which, again, is comprised of a userbase who was advertised to for freedom of speech, is the well-established "random board" as the spiritual successor from 4chan, and is on what HW himself always calls "the free-speech 4chan alternative") for fun? Okay, for catalog spam, I understand. Sliding everyone else's threads off of the board with your own sameshit, fish, whatever, is a clear abuse of code mechanics. The real fix is to increase the timer between posts (there's no way to stop people with multiple IPs from making trouble on 8chan anyways), but deleting the flooded posts and banning for repetition of spam is a good stop-gap in the meantime.

I have seen two instances where that happened, Boox being the more recent and much more blatant one, and both ended with the expulsion and humiliation of the vol in question. Then I see the random stickies and figure, oh, a mod's having some fun, cool. What the fuck, random ban thread? May as well go check it out until nugger comes and throws their ass out. Of course, it's full of "le oldfag maymay" bullshit. He's going through the report queue because "hurr durr if someone reported it it must mean it should be deleted". You're a vol on /b/, fuck off. If someone reports something, check what it is, then elevate it to global (which, you are also a global mod) if it's CP, otherwise dismiss it. Yeah, people use the report form frivolously, because it's a joke, because this is fucking 8chan and you don't get banned for something the mods don't like on /b/, or for abusing the report system. But no, has to be a faggot FOR TEH LULZ, which lately just means "to immediately get people on my side no matter how much of a stupid, contradictory faggot I am", and everyone who still wants to join LE LEEJUN and took all of those bullshit white-on-black stencil motivational things seriously, both newfags and perennial cancer…they flock to it. Because they love to yell about moralfaggotry and how they're above such stupidity, but ultimately they don't even know what nihilism is, they get easily emotional, and they will do ANYTHING to feel like they're fitting in, but they're just too stupid to go hang out with all of the other normalfags doing the exact same fragile thing, because they think they're somehow different. They're exactly the same, really, just with a stronger urge to whine and feel left out than most.

>>1013

So, there were flocks of them in the thread, even more than I would have expected, partly because they infested the site from the beginning, and mostly because a new tide of newfags was sweeping over /b/ in the wake of that godawful /qa/ debacle over on 4chan. By volume, most of the threads I spammed were quintessential 4chan threads we'd been lucky to have very few of in the past. Some were definitely perennial cancer, though. Like I say, I have no regrets and can post just like anyone else, and all of the threads were total shit. I mean, if I'd spammed good threads, it still wouldn't have been a big deal, because no one's banned, nothing's deleted, everyone can still start and post in threads. No censorship or hotpocketry is in play. But, anyways, the thread was full of cancer who are attracted to that sort of thing, you know, LOL A MOD IS DOING EPIC THING, OMG POSTING IN A STICKY, so on. Oh good, Anonymous was here in this sticky. Good, thanks for leaving your footprint in the cement, you know. So I'd like to think that population was not at all representative of the overall /b/ population, which is shit, but not disgustingly submissive like that, in general, in the past. The support for the whole thread was overwhelming and not more than 20% of it could have been notlily sameposting. So, between that general reaction and my realization that is was notlily, I had this horrible sinking feeling.

I really, really don't care about the weebs who migrated here, for the most part. They have some cool boards, I'm sure. I keep away from them. But I did know notlily was the /a/ admin since day -9001, or something, and loved to chat it up with Benji and Hotwheels and all of the regulars. I wanted to think Hotwheels would come down in his chariot after having the QA with Jim (who, actually, I don't have any problem with so far) to show us he was not in fact a washed-up figurehead nursing his "irrelevant cripple who made a website". We get it already…you did it out of love, and hate the fan worship (to be fair so would I) and endless criticism and fucking around (nut up, you openly invited it in volume back at the start, I remember that clearly), yes, Shia, you're not famous anymore, that's wonderful, we get it. But…radio silence. No word from nugger (still, as far as I know), and I know he's around a lot. But of course, he's IRC friends with notlily too, and defers to HW, and so on. Gotta have the bow and scrape in nobility. So I made a thread on /operate/, but mine was interrogative and rational rather than genuinely delusional and bombastic like Glasses' (we made our threads at, like, the same time), so after some discussion it died gradually while we discussed things in his more alarmist and agenda-driven thread, because, clickbait value so people would notice and comment, getting more response from Nunu.

I expected to get "handled" by Nunu, of course. I don't go on /operate/ much at all (and I still know the things most

anons don't, proving that everyone needs to LURK MORE as always), but I was already familiar with the smooth,

diplomatic, conciliatory phrasation, riding this fine line between professionalism, tone neutrality (often mistaken in

and of itself for "political correctness", being a common component of it), personability, and a genuine peacemaking

instinct. A real 8chan patriot. I knew Nunu would try to "make it right" in a gentle, non-ruffling, don't-shoot-the-messenger way, after some preliminary shuffling and shushing (though I didn't expect quite the level of dismissiveness we originally got…then again I didn't expect notlily's hotpocket paranoia to manifest so obviously in the angry, indignant "UUUUU MADDDDD" posting with the stereotypical smug animu faces…seriously, what a damn control freak), and I knew unless HW proved me wrong about my suspicion of him sinking into non-communicative sulking and being himself exactly what he called Garrison (who frankly sustained a lot more abuse over a longer period, and didn't invite or ask for any of it like HW did), "a fair weather libertarian", no one else was going to do shit and notlily would stay vol, and everyone would cheer because those terrible /intl/ shills didn't manage to do away with the lulz (seriously, fuck those monotonous bores for the constant forced meme of posting about how they hate their board, and fuck everyone who was dumb enough to fall for it, HW included) and the old /b/ was truly back…XD RANDOM SNACKS mods.

Snacks, btw, was always a massive faggot and an egomaniacal rulefag with a LE RANDOM streak to justify it, and kicking him out was in many ways one of the best things moot did for 4chan. Just ask 7chan…they tend to love the guy, so you should know he's shit. and good old roll and trap threads, yay! Maybe if anyone interferes with those, they can get banned FORREAL next time and everyone can live happily ever after in 4/b/+EDGY (now that considering yourself a nihilist, ironic racist, TECH ANARCHIST, and whatever other contradictory assortment of ideals legionfags used to think was super duper rebellious).

So I said nope, fuck it, I'm out. Even if notlily was eventually de-voled I don't know that I'd come back just because it would have taken so long to do what obviously should be done. "Free speech alternative" doesn't mean the random board, which the admin made as a replacement for one he advertised, and then handed over to people he hand-picked probably from IRC, has vols on it giving "power to the people" to ban whoever based on what some other random anons reported.

Oh, and the bro culture thing? The thing that used to be relentlessly and rightly mocked (you know, the origin of "cool story bro"), the entire spectrum of muh feels, /soc/ threads, "you are now thinking about HER", how to be ALPHA, on and on with the bullshit. Now retards think talking about feeling lonely and being special snowflakes and having a support group and sending each other anonymous well wishes is an integral part of being le edgy misanthropic anonymoose secretly fragile brooding antihero. We resisted it for a while, but /b/ is overrun and the rest of the main boards will follow, and it'll just keep filtering down into everything. The cancer won't lurk smaller boards, but they'll turn formerly good posters more cancerous by re-exposing them to this inane lowest-common-denominator monoculture. Just like Hollywood does to the entire world. I'd accept all of it, though, if it weren't for the confirmation that 8chan has an IRC-based autism-politics elite that overrides the purpose of boards or any guarantees HW has made. So nope, nope, nope, I'm out, emptying out the boards I made of stuff I contributed. I left whatever I posted directly on /pee/, and I've decided to keep looking after it, because I didn't make it, it's already been wiped and left to die once and deserves better, it's sort of a communications hub, and if I don't I'm afraid someday, somehow, some hotpocket will come along and ruin it.

Anyways, the whole thing gave me a good opportunity to write something nice and long about imageboards, so something good came out of it.

>Besides those threads that glassesfag made, have you seen many other people express their dissatisfaction with that mob rule thread.

I saw a few other threads made besides the general stirring in the threads he made that day, but I haven't gone to /b/ at all, or /operate/ outside of the two threads I still have open since, so I can't tell you more than that. If it really were just me and that retard who had a problem with that thread…or even if no one had seen it and objected even in the thread itself, if there had been not so much as a "fuck off hotpocket", it would still be shit and notlily should still be ousted from the dorito nest anyways. 8chan was never, ever, about democracy…always about free speech. The two are not at all synonymous, no matter how many stars-and-stripes eagles say so. In fact, it's hilarious that revolution-happy socialists hate democracy so much, since it's the best segue into socialism possibly devised. The creep is inevitable, because the plenty breeds corruption, apathy, lack of education, and then you have the elite leeching off a system which is competing by punishing them equally instead of actually fixing the originally broken legal code, and the uneducated populace votes in more and more feel-good leaders to tell them what to think, how to act, how to speak, etc. Very gradual, but inevitable (with some error bars and of course total civilization collapses). The only alternative for getting restrictive social stuff in without democracy and free speech together is bloody revolution against oppressors, which with socialist revolutionaries always leads to really corrupt and shitty systems. But just free speech, and being on the internet you can have nearly complete anarchy while preserving nearly complete freedom of speech, as long as no one is given the power to silence someone else, because no one can actually hit each other? Well, you make both anarchy itself and also freedom of speech without democratic power practical at once, to a very great degree, just by virtue of the abstract medium itself. All you have to do is not fuck with that, and if you accidentally fuck with that or let someone else do so, you clean up and say "go back to doing what you were you horrible faggots".

But not if you're popular enough in IRC and in charge of a top board!

>>1012

>>1013

>>1014

>>1015

Thanks for further explaining your thoughts.

For the most part i agree with, and can sympathize with some of your concerns. But i feel as if you unfairly scapegoat IRC. And I can't help but think some people

would write-off most of this, when they read what you have to say about IRC. IRC is just a chat protocol, it's not some sort of conspiracy.

With that said, what about solutions? Do you think notlilly should be removed? Do you feel all of these unspoken rules, or practices, need to be clearly written down somewhere?

>>1016

About IRC, it's not a matter of this one incident, just that I've gone on a lot of IRC channels of various websites and projects and seen the same general circlejerk between the "who's who" there. IRC is, like you say, a protocol. I really like IRC, the communications system. I just despise IRC, the culture. It's always been an "educated idiot" sort of thing. I hate to say it, but a lot of that was inherited from the haughty, sheltered nature of a lot of newsgroups and just kept dragging along. But it's not really about the medium…they could use some flash-based chat, or chain email, and it would be exactly the same. Hell, they could use a Skype group for just the close friends and it would be volumes worse…maybe they do. On the occasion I lurk in a Skype call posted on an imageboard (for some reason they invite anons from time to time to a lot of them when they're mostly all from deviantart or something and it shows?), I get soul cancer. If people want to "find each other" and fill their empty twisted souls with…something something companionship, something something true meaning, that's all fine, really, I just don't want their warm fuzzy feelings to interfere with site operation, like always happened with 4chan and really most other major websites (let's not forget to include Wikipedia; Wales still seems okay to me, but lots of sub-hierarchies are totally compromised by truth warriors becoming good friends and being in related positions of power).

If everyone likes each other and gets along and wants to be pals, that should, in theory, be great. I don't expect everyone involved in a big way in such a cohesive project, investing their time and interest and support and sometimes money in something, to just be cold and distant. In practice, though, it seems to always lead to conscious or unconscious favoritism and a "don't worry, you're fine" sort of atmosphere. 8chan was never advertised as being about trust or seniority and certainly not about a mod circlejerk.

If nugger or HW had come in sometime that day or the next and said "Oh, yeah, sorry about that, notlily isn't a /b/ vol anymore", then fine. I don't care if they'd privately spent five hours soothing a hurt ego and assuring notlily that this is just to keep up appearances or whatever else as long as what happens on 8ch.net isn't affected by reputations or friendships in the IRC. Like, for instance, one time on /sp/ some anon kept bugging me to ask goatbro for modship (as a joke) because I'd emailed him about some /sp/ issue I forget now (yes, I cared more about the well-being of a board that was ambivalent to me than many of its loyal users for whom it was their primary board. I am a saint.), and I didn't even know him, but I sent what I thought was a pretty clear joke and he sends me back this polite, deferential email about how it wouldn't go over well since I'm not a /sp/ devotee but he's sure I'd be a good mod or whatever. He doesn't even like me as far as I know, but I was playing getball and had a tripcode so I was "someone". Now, I could be totally wrong, and maybe he'd be that polite to any random person who emailed him, and either way he did the right thing and didn't make me a mod just for being a quirky and offbeat tripfag. But, I mean, if I went in IRC enough, if I said the right things, even using this current identity I could eventually become a vol on at least one major board without any special social engineering or anything, just by hanging around and circlejerking and demonstrating knowledge or competence of things.

Fair enough; vols should be at least somewhat engaged and not pass of their account to some random hotpocket or whatever. The spirit of people who innately like to be in charge of other people bothers me, but so long as results aren't compromised, doesn't really matter much.

As soon as there's even a small, slight, in-and-of-itself-harmless infraction, to say nothing of actually banning a few shitposters at random who might not be smart enough to change their IPs…which seems like small enough loss, but is totally against 8chan's entire motif and indeed worthy of 4chan's old, enduring ways…well, that means the slope is already being slid down, and now there are concerns because it's a matter of either intervention and correction or eventually the same thing happens again with someone of sufficient clout and from there the mod-user relationship slowly erodes back down into 4chan. It's not that 8chan is suddenly tainted and bad, it's that a definite precedent has been set, and radio silence sends a clearer message than a definite "it is what it is" ever could.

>>1017

A lot of people see moot going full SJW as a dramatic turn of events, but knowing what I do about SA, having seen 4chan through the years and read archives and things on other websites about its early years, having spent years arguing with anons on /b/ about things and seeing their defense mechanisms, the way they rationalize things or just use attitude to blow off points that make them uncomfortable, selectively moralfagging and then calling moralfaggotry, not when they're fucking around, but the shit they do while having serious conversations, repeated again and again and spread and reinforced between them. The obvious philosophical marketing they've as a majority bought into or recognized and rejected as they went, at quasi-random but following a loose agenda of lifestyle convenience and wishful thinking. I couldn't have predicted the specific events, but it all follows, and many of the fatal flaws that made 4chan such shit were present from its inception, and made it in large degree shit during its early years, from a current and more neutral viewpoint. A lot of anons like to think they "support chaos" in some way, meaning any concept of fairness will be rejected for teh lulz, and the irony is they don't realize that they're just gleefully enabling and conforming to a variety of set patterns, designs, and ordered structures by doing so. Because, after all, the subconscious supposition seems to be that if the counterculture isn't one, and imageboards are the counterculture to supposed counterculture, and if you disagree with viewpoints A and B, that must mean that this time you really are truly enlightened and not just mindlessly conforming to viewpoint C while arguing over semantics and asides. The more bizarre and contradictory viewpoint C is, the more support it will get because people can feel a tribal togetherness while still pretending they aren't just mindlessly going along with something, whoever else it may restrict.

Like, SJWs bitch about it not being "real free speech" because they always get shouted down and spammed or ignored or told to TITS or GTFO and so on, because they can't fathom free speech not having to be polite or friendly to them or their views specifically. In some ways, anons can be a lot the same, both newfags and lurkers who never understood the potential.

I won't apologize for any harshness or hostility in all of this explanation, being after all on a western imageboard, but it's not like I'm mad and offended or anything. I mean, 8chan really is great, and HW is younger than me and already has this website going and did what it took to keep it up. I just can't see myself not making whatever insignificant, solitary, anonymous, shit-nobody-cares-about stand here before the philosophical rot begins. I couldn't live with myself if I just watched, saying it's nothing I can affect, while the one website I actually want to go to goes off on the wrong track.

>Do you think notlilly should be removed?

As a /b/ vol. Keep /a/ and all of the various other rulefaggotry shit, of course, most people seem to like him in that capacity on /a/. Isn't it weird, and kind of disturbing, that he would care about having a /b/ volship and want to defend it in the first place by furiously mocking, samefagging, and marginalizing all criticism? (not that "I was just pretending to be retarded" glasses poster makes that tough)

>Do you feel all of these unspoken rules, or practices, need to be clearly written down somewhere?

Of coursh! Hell, I would write up a complete set of moderator restrictions and explain, in full detail, exactly why they are there both historically and in the context of 8ch's advertised philosophy - I'd include references and links and everything. I would even resist putting in "All cat's cradle faggots will be perma'd on sight" and other such things which would please me personally.

>>1018

Problem is, even if for some reason someone put of all people me in charge of doing that, there might be enormous backlash from various hypocritical tards who can't into impartiality, and HW would be thinking, well, I have an obligation to do what my current userbase wants as well as to hold up my ideals, so as a site admin, I should acquiesce to popular demand…like with that DOST thing. HW made it clear in various documents that it was global administration, not supreme court justices, that were applying the DOST test and that they didn't have to agree. I don't give a shit if Hollywood, the moral authorities, and the pope all OK'd a scene with an underage girl performing in an overtly sexual manner which was the argument everyone used against him, the scene was clearly not for pure artistic merit and was in fact a cash grab because "you can see an underage striptease legally if you buy a ticket to this sanctioned Hollywood movie". HW was right about that and to his credit stood up on it when people started making erroneous comparisons to the Nirvana album and endlessly flailing about the popularity of the thing and how if no arrests were made it couldn't be against US law (which…LOL), and then, remember what supposedly changed his mind? Someone he knew, personally (in IRC/internet terms), went and talked to him in IRC and convinced him personally. Frankly, I almost decided to hit the big red button on that one. In fact, I sent him an email about that one, or tried to, the day before he changed his mind (urging him not to change his mind and explaining why), but it got rejected by the webserver because, last I knew, he's STILL ignoring Vince about the @8chan.co emails for some reason. At least he was at that time. Vince had by then cut off his admin@8chan.co email to get his attention and made an /operate/ thread, which I'd forgotten about. I guess it gave HW a good excuse to not have to answer emails and spam death threats and stuff, and probably some embarrassing server mishap had happened which he'd have to explain to Vince, but still. That was another thing that got me uneasy, in and of itself.

Now, if you think I just despise pedophiles, yeah, you're right, I do. Not as an automatic thing, I just learned to hate them through reading what they had to say and watching them try to inject themselves into other people's conversations and ideas. However, if you think that's why I was trying to send the email, you'd be wrong. That's a clear cut case of ephebophilic content which I don't care about. I'm not particularly attracted to most women under 20, but I think it's retarded that the age of consent is above 15. However, beyond all of this, I actually advocated for the pedophiles when HW deleted like 7 pedo boards at once and then went to sleep after. The pedos were being their usual faggot selves about it and making me want to lurk in their chatrooms, gather their personal info, hunt them down and drive stakes through their hearts…but I don't go to pedo boards, so I didn't know for sure if they had actually been posting cp. So I explained the issue in the threads about it on /b/, /pol/, /operate/, all of the ones that linked to each other, and was widely shouted down and told how much I like to fuck kids dozens of times because I wanted to get confirmation from HW that there was indeed CP on the boards and he didn't just decide he hated the pedos. Back then his email was still working, so I emailed him about it, knowing he would probably henceforth consider me as "that annoying pissfag who got the /vg/ get and is a pedophile". Because I really don't care if HW or anyone likes me or remembers anything of me or not, because I ostensibly do not have to care. This isn't "oldfag 4chan", it's 4chan - rulefaggotry - tracking + user boards. Hell, Jim Profit himself showed up in /b/ here a while ago, probably in January or February this year, and guess what? The anons then were suckling on his dick because he got banned from 4chan, because they also had been and supposedly this place was going to be free speech where you didn't get banned. Incidentally, I think Jim Profit is a massive cancerous retard and took the opportunity of telling him to go fuck himself in the thread, but him being there, unbanned and attention whoring, was reassuring as to the nature of 8chan. Anyways, HW eventually emailed me back saying yes there was cp, yes he'd update the board list on obscenity.html (which is what I was insisting needed to happen in all of the threads and getting called a pedo for it, as it'd indicate that was why he removed them…all still contingent on him being honest, which I had and still have no reason to doubt), and that, as I figured, he just forgot that page existed.

>>1019

By the way…obscenity.html, dost.html (or whatever), bans.html, settings.html, claim.txt (or whatever claims are now, however they work…and by the way, if he doesn't have access to that email, he needs to have a working one on all materials containing a request to email him…or whoever else he appoints to manage that if he decides to…a "come talk to me in IRC about it instead" system is terrible for obvious reasons not even related to previous complaints about the IRC group), all problem summaries, monthly summaries, etc….really need to be comprehensively collected in a website documentation page which is linked to from the homepage and updated regularly. It wouldn't take that long. Hell, throw whore.txt and the other "easter eggs" on it too, if you're going to even have them as pages from the base directory. It's no good berating newfags about not knowing about a policy or clarification if it's only available on a page not linked to officially anywhere which was mentioned in a lot of /operate/ and /meta/ threads which 404'd last week, a board blotter and/or site announcment div message which is only still on boards which haven't been posted on since it was removed, and buried somewhere in HW's or Josh's twitter feed. Either someone should just watch the feeds and /operate/, or better, people who add special pages to the website and link to them somewhere should just open up misclinks.html and paste them in. No need to even anchor tag them if in that much of a hurry, we can copy and paste.

I usually seem to be on the wrong side of popular opinion by being on the right side of free expression, consistency, and fairness on 8chan, and it's annoying how almost no one else can seem to hold strong opinions while maintaining separate and objective understanding of net neutrality and 8chan's original stated purpose. Maybe I don't encounter many people like that on 8chan because they lurk as much as me and aren't as fond of their own opinions as your typical /b/tard. Even people who were just banned from 4chan for being massive retarded faggots and aren't smart enough to change IP, you'd think they might at least have some appreciation for the reasons 8chan doesn't ban them rather than just endlessly leech, shill, false-flag and roll around in their own hypocrisy like your typical /a/, /pol/, /v/, GG, SJW, anti-SJW, /intwhatever/, /leftypol/ faggots do. It's all serious and vitriolic until you back them into a corner, then it's "LOL AUTISM PRETENDING TO BE RETARDED FOR THE LULZ", and I'm just not stupid to fall for that. I never was, even before I lurked more. I mean, I don't think most of them even are, but they keep trying it on each other and everyone else anyways, like some sort of desperate compulsion. I get that Hotwheels wants to make everyone happy, but if that means adopting cancerous 4chan policies, keep everyone raging and thinking up conspiracies against him. It's not the current practical userbase 8chan was supposed to cater to, but the people who want to be rid of bullshit 4chan rulefaggotry and agendas. So far, HW and now Jim as well have done really, really well at this with the few notable exceptions I've been bitching about for what, probably getting close to 10,000 words now? Yet I could easily write a book or two about 4chan, 8chan, imageboard adminship, free speech, and especially the various groups and philosophies and delusions and cults which mix and blend and corrupt or improve or influence one another while I sit reading through it all trying to figure out what the fuck is happening.

If I seem to have dropped any points or paragraphs in the middle of something, or if you just want to hear more about something, do tell me. If I repeated myself without covering new ground in some way during parts of it, I apologize. There's just too much branching information to cover and relate neatly with my limited brainpower without going through an editing process.

Lastly, on a scale of 1 to 10, you're Nunu, aren't you?

Or just an anon fishing for some good dense copypasta material?

Oh, and forgot to mention. Yes, I know glasses is a faggot whenever he mentions IRC. He has secret IRC logs detailing at least three conspiracies I'm personally involved in, and I post in all of those IRC channels regularly without knowing it myself. Topics range from destroying /b/ with shitposts to stymieing /pol/'s righteous agenda to, I think the other one was actually about PETA somehow? I don't remember.

I should probably also mention that from time to time I use the Kamina Shades Clear to fuck with him, mock him, and/or play along with him. Like I'm doing now, having just gone back to /b/ to check the catalog and finding him in a conspiracy-related thread.

>>1017

>>1018

>>1019

>>1020

>Of coursh! Hell, I would write up a complete set of moderator restrictions and explain, in full detail, exactly why they are there both historically and in the context of 8ch's advertised philosophy - I'd include references and links and everything.

This is exactly what i wanted to hear, thanks for clearly spelling it out.

>Yet I could easily write a book or two about 4chan, 8chan, imageboard adminship, free speech, and especially the various groups and philosophies and delusions and cults which mix and blend and corrupt or improve or influence one another while I sit reading through it all trying to figure out what the fuck is happening.

I honestly wouldn't mind further reading your thoughts on some of these subjects. Maybe you could make a wikibooks page or just someplace where you could easily condense your thoughts.

>Lastly, on a scale of 1 to 10, you're Nunu, aren't you?

eh…i mean i wasn't planning on namefagging or anything, but yea i am. Here's your proof >>>/operate/38957

If it makes you feel any better, i've really been stressing how some of /b/s unspoken rules need to be clearly written out. So there might be some change within regards to that.

>>1023

I'd have to write them out, organize them, and then elaborate. I'll try to find the time. I've already written too much opinion under this identity already to be able to ever really publish to the world about imageboards without fearing becoming associated with the writings of this identity, so I may as well make some sort of e-book or index of considerations at some point. I could use the writing exercise and some extra space in my head anyways.

I just figured it was you due to the combination of politeness, inquisitive nature, interest in reading long diatribes about imageboard paths of righteousness, and conciliatory middle ground on this subject.

Don't stress, it's bad for your glands and organs, or something like that. I could write up a draft of (as far as I can myself tell) neutral stipulations for moderating /b/ here if you want, but if you were to put any modified version or derivative portion of it into an actual CoC of any sort, I don't have to tell you the shitstorm it would probably generate. First of all, anons would be in instinctive outrage against a name/tripfag who is known for x thing or other already being consulted or listened to in such a matter (couldn't blame em much really), second of all, anyone who has talked to me much knows I generally dislike Reddit, Mark, IRC and Skype groups, warm and happy feelings, /meta/, weebs, furries and really quite a few things which are popular with many 8chan anons and leaders of anons.

But that said, if you don't have a clear direction or justification of rules for /b/ vols (or do, but are being cautious and want more info/opinions), I'll make something anyways.

Any chance you can give me a brief summary of your imageboard-related experiences and so on so I don't repeat things you already know about in any further conversation? Will I learn that from the Skype calls with HW and Mark?

Also how did you lurk enough to get to this thread from the /operate/ bitching threads, just out of curiosity? With so many boards it's sometimes like an n degrees of separation thing here, where the path is as interesting as the result.

>so I may as well make some sort of e-book

I don't know about that, I was sorta thinking of something like this: https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/2ch_Chronicle

>But that said, if you don't have a clear direction or justification of rules for /b/ vols (or do, but are being cautious and want more info/opinions), I'll make something anyways.

I'd like that, but just keep in mind that i'm not the /b/ BO. So i don't really have much authority over that board. And the most i could reasonably do is try to persuade nugger to maybe write out a clear set of /b/ rules or practices.

>Any chance you can give me a brief summary of your imageboard-related experiences and so on so I don't repeat things you already know about in any further conversation?

I don't exactly know when i discovered 4chan, but i do know i started frequenting it sometime around 2009/2010. So i'd most likely be considered a newfag by most. But i certainly do enjoy reading about 4chan pre-2010, and just imageboards

and anonymity in general. Before the #gamergate non-sense, i honestly wasn't much aware of any other imageboards besides 4chan. And i just assumed, like most 4chan anons probably do about 8chan, that they were probably shit. But

after spending a significant amount of time on 8chan, and other imageboards, i don't really hold 4chan in as much esteem as i used to.

>Will I learn that from the Skype calls with HW and Mark?

It was josh not hw, and there really isn't much imageboard discussion in those logs. But i suppose you could get a bit more insight on how i feel about 8chan, #gamergate, and a few other things from those logs.

>Also how did you lurk enough to get to this thread from the /operate/ bitching threads, just out of curiosity? With so many boards it's sometimes like an n degrees of separation thing here, where the path is as interesting as the result.

I actually knew about this board before the mob rule thread. Correct me if i'm wrong, but wasn't this board linked to in the /pee/ blotter. So that's probably how i first discovered it. I also just really enjoy exploring the boards list, in search of

interesting boards.

Wall of text = Redditor

nice blog board by the way

>>1004

Join us or at least come share some ebin piss memes with us

>>>/ints/

>>1027

I'm legit interested btw, ignore the rest of cancer coming from the same link as I

>>1030

well fuck you do slovenia

>>1025

I know you're just an interested party, but you are a mod of a major board and have been in touch with other BOs in the various ways I was criticizing as being too effective. That said, there would of course be irony in your influence correcting such a problem anyways. Quite the conundrum.

Most of the other chans are indeed shit, but then, so is and always was most of 4chan and most of 8chan. 7chan is maybe the worst, because it's composed of the "oldfag exodus", it has all of that pointless "we are like 4chan but hate it!!!1111!!!" that 8chan is still trying to outgrow, with none of the new features, and even worse mods than 4chan. 420chan in theory could have cool discussions on it but is largely shit. Ylilauta and Kraut seem to somehow have lower overall post quality than 4chan but occasionally come out with something really clever. I actually thought uberchan might be sort of promising during its brief existence, but somewhat lost interest when we couldn't convince the admin to make Papa Smurf the official logo despite his continuing popularity there. Anyways, I'm getting sidetracked. Maybe sometime I'll make a separate wikibook thing for observations on various smaller chans.

It was linked to /pee/ for some months, it still might be linked on /omo/ because I don't think he updated the blotter. I just didn't really realize many people other than the regular posters lurk there. You're also one of only two or three people besides me that I've seen in recent months mentioning exploring random boards.

>>1026

Yes, that's what Redditors are known for…being literate and considering things carefully.

As Jim would say, "kek, and all that shit".

>>1028

>>1029

>>1031

>>1032

Yer cabbage.

>>1027

>>1030

Might just do that. Right now I'm buried in a /tech/ thing, so may be a few days.

If it's not from Poseidon@8chan.co it's not me.

inviting more spam

no really, send me /ints/ bullshit, I've started collecting copypasta lately for a project

>>1032

hey that's MY oc, you're misappropriating it!

>>1033

If you want /ints/ pasta, just go through the archives posted on /cow/. Lately I've only been going on /ints/ to trigger the teenbros there.

>>1034

>teenbros

Tumblr, the portmanteau.

>>1033

Well after reading your above posts, I suppose i can understand why you'd be a bit apprehensive about further discussing /b/ policies. That's sorta why i didn't mention who i was at the

beginning. I'm really just interested in seeing some of these issues addressed, and just further reading your general thoughts on /b/.

I'm honestly not sure if there's anything i could do now to address some of the issues you have with my communications with BOs and the site staff. If you have any ideas then please let me know if there's anything i could

reasonably do to help alleviate your concerns.

Also nugger has started to write out some clear /b/ rules: https://8ch.net/b/rules.html . Now those are far from ideal, but atleast it's a step in the right direction. And those are also apparently just a first draft.

>You're also one of only two or three people besides me that I've seen in recent months mentioning exploring random boards.

I'm sure there's more. But yea, i especially like coming across a board with some very unique css.

>>1036

I don't really know what could be done. The thing about IRC is it's really great technically, it's very simple and perfect for keeping in touch about a project, so people naturally gravitate towards it, and it becomes easier to seclude themselves in a closed circle.

If you have any specific questions about /b/ or whatever that you want opinions on, ask and I'll try to give a satisfactory answer. With the closure of this board as content sharing, I may as well keep posting meta stuff here where I'm BO so it can't be tampered with. I have something I'm putting together on a tangential topic which may prove useful down the road.

>>1037

Regarding the rules as conceived of by nugger:

>the in-thread spam I like is okay but other spam of the same exact method that I dislike is not

Without monetary compensation.

>Rule 4: Going out of your way to be an asshat or a retard will probably result in a funban. Volunteers have discretion to revoke posting abilities and delete content as they see fit. Issues with moderation should be posted on /operate/, so that the staff can be aware of the problem.

This reminds me a lot of the thing vid.me had in their ToS in the early days:

"Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom to be an asshole."

It was just the peak of pandering, shit-eating hypocrisy, so they could have their "free speech" pin while also being a fucking safespace.

Another thing it reminds me of is circa-2005 everyforums, where people spoke in hushed, horrified, morally outraged tones about those awful trolls who posted mean, controversial, or sometimes deliberately inflammatory comments!

See also: Fuqqq da h4t3rz!!!!1

If this were any board but /b/, fine. /v/, whatever. You can always make another board, that's the point. But 8chan was shilled hard on /b/ especially, and the point was always that you get away from the moderators who loved to "teehee whoops I banned u le smug anime faec". The whole point was to take in banned users and, importantly, users who were smart enough to not get banned or to ban evade, but who didn't want to post on a /b/ - Random where they could get banned because a vol was on their period.

"Funban" is the epitome of something a 4chan janitor would type and everyone knows it.

> discretion to revoke posting abilities and delete content as they see fit

This is exactly the hotpocket bullshit people left 4chan over. Indiscriminate bans and deletions for fucking anything as long as the mods felt like it. 8chan was advertised as "you can make your own board", not "you too can have a turn at being the ruling hotpocket on /b/ if you suck enough IRC dick to get HW to turn the board over to you". The whole way he phrased it, the conscious and sweeping "le no ruels for mods XDDDDD", the massive allowance for any kind of rulefaggotry imaginable, and the way it panders specifically to notlily with "heheh all in fun bans, anyone who disagrees with notlily is retard asshat lolol silly bois don't be such shitlords".

Diagnosis: nugger and notlily should both immediately vacate /b/ or take cyanide.

>>1038

Now here's a less cocksucking ruleset:

Rules For Posters

0. Don't post anything illegal under US law. Especially don't post child pornography. In lieu of a court of law, global admins will apply the DOST test to their best judgement in the case of reported gray areas. This is an 8chan global policy, not /b/-specific.

1. Don't flood the catalog with duplicate spam threads, as this precludes the possibility of other users posting in other threads without immediately being 404ed.

2. A few specific topics have been idenfitied as things which the majority of /b/ do not wish to discuss in every thread, but whose more enthusiastic proponents lack the restraint to avoid spamming indiscriminately in all unrelated threads, achieving a similar spam sliding effect as spamming new threads - as well as actually often spamming new threads, frequently "disguised" as tangentially related threads. In many cases, these posters are specifically on /b/ to try and "colonize" it for their own boards, due to its large and volatile userbase. In light of this, it has long been an unwritten but oft-expressed policy on /b/ for these types of posts to be confined to one thread on /b/ at a time (not counting threads filled to post limit [not bump limit] ), as otherwise their monotonous propaganda will overrun all threads, and if not, push them off with new propaganda threads, as has been witnessed over the past year or on 4chan's /b/ in the past years. These are:

>pedo thread, for all pedo, hebe, ephebo, and related content and discussion

>brony thread

(I would also add the following, which would cause lots of salt but also be fair and consistent if you're going to contain the pedos and bronies, because these groups have displayed an equal tendency to crowd out non-repetitive threads, intentionally or otherwise. In essence, this is just pre-existing and sadly necessary hotpocketry being applied to the groups which have it coming just as much as the pedos and bronies)

>roll thread, post any and all "roll for x", post number games, diceroll games, "you must post if", etc in this devoted thread

>dedicated tripfagging thread

>hunger games thread (it's retarded and spammy to have more than one before one is full. It doesn't matter if the bump limit is hit, if you don't have enough people left in the thread to support another game, making another thread to get more attention is stupid. In general I like these threads personally, but they do tend to multiply and knock other threads off the board a lot, they also have multiple fairly active containment boards)

>furry thread, anyone who's lurked knows the importance of containment with furries

>x-pilling thread - Not meant to constrain "all political discussion" or "all political opinion", this would just be that only one thread at a time is made specifically to dump/spam /pol/ or /leftypol/ or /intl/ or whatever propaganda, that is, one thread per agenda.

>x-advertising thread - Be it your board or hurrdurr maxvidya, no one cares if you make a thread on /b/. More than one of the same fucking thread just to take up more eyeroom in the catalog is just bumping off actual threads.

>cat's cradle AKA death AKA "do you remember when you died" AKA mandelaproject thread AKA berenst[a/e]in bears

>"cuck porn"

>webm thread - given the importance and popularity of webms, I would say that up to three simultaneous webm threads might be appropriate, especially since there's at least one regular poster on /b/ who insists there must be porn-free non-triggering webm threads for whatever reason; more than three, a good response would be a bumplock on the newer ones (as detailed below in the vol rules)

>more to be added as appropriate…note that this should not create any problems for posters, because it's still a guaranteed thread about whatever the overgrown topic is, despite any containment boards the topic might better belong in; this is merely a measure to keep monothematic spam from choking out non-repeating threads

>>1039

Rules for Vols

0. When in doubt, leave it alone.

1. Delete/ban for catalog flooding (mass new threads created as fast as possible by the same user, usually the same exact thread or slight variants of it.

2. Ask people to post containment thread material in the containment threads first. A capcode or show of authority is not always necessary for this. Only once a user has been warned or contacted should deletion take effect for continued posting outside of containment threads.

3. Delete continuing posts or duplicate threads of things belonging in existing containment threads. When choosing a thread to delete, delete the most recently created one regardless of which has the most replies. Do not count threads at post limit (not bump limit) as containment threads. It is up to the vol to check this as a routine precaution before deleting a thread. In cases where users may not understand why a thread is deleted, it may be more appropriate to post the reason in the thread itself (with capcode), link the containment thread in your post (it's just courtesy), and bumplock the thread instead of deleting it. Advertisement, be it board or commercial, consisting of more than one new thread at once, can be deleted at once.

4. Constant new thread spam and/or disregard for containment threads may eventually merit banning merely because of the difficulty of dealing with the spam. Beginning ban length for continuing catalog spam/containment thread material spam is 4 hours, to be doubled with each subsequent banning for doing the same thing upon returning.

5. Any Vol who bans any poster out of personal dislike or distaste, because their post showed up in the report queue (but did not run afoul of the Rules For Posters), because someone asked them to (other than requests for oneself to be banned for whatever reason), or because "the community wanted it" will be grounds for the immediate dismissal of the vol in question. "Chaotic randumb" moderators are in direct contradiction to the guaranteed freedom of speech 8chan advertised on 4chan /b/. A user being unpopular (for instance, an SJW making a stupid vanity thread) or too PC, critical of /b/, or whatever, is also not grounds for a ban or deletion or "joke ban".

6. New vols will be chosen by the board mod posting a sticky whenever more are needed for whatever reason, and requiring interested parties to post an email address and use the dice roll function (since post numbers can be gamed). Whoever rolls a winning number announced in the OP with the dice required in the OP gets to be a vol (up to as many as are being added, also expressed in the OP). Board owner will be especially vigilant in the period following this so as to be ready to quickly remove vols and undo the inevitable damage bad candidates will do by banning people for random things and letting the power go to their head or doing it for the super epick lulz (…like notlily). Most vols found this way will be shit and quickly exposed as shit. The hope would be that the vol selection process would not have to be done very often, as the surviving vols would stay active and responsible.

—

Now, this is a lot longer and more involved than nugger's rules, and as such decried by the sort of anon who wants to think of themselves as the Joker (which is ironic, because even Ledger's edgy FOR KHAOS portrayal of him involves him actually plotting the most complex and orderly plans of all), but it is also a lot less restrictive for everyone other than the vols. If you'll recall, the entire point of 8chan was to get away from janitors with too much power, so "free speech means the mods can tell you what you can and can't say because that's their free speech" is a shitty, 4chan-style stance. Anyone who is a vol can still go be a mod or vol on some other board that isn't the landing place for 8chan and the defacto gathering point for its users, and ban people for petty things all they want there.

>>1039

>>1040

This is definitively what I've been wanting to see. Very clear, and each point is mostly agreeable.

I'm a little curious about your position on containment threads though, do you really think /b/ needs them. I've always held the opinion that they were unnecessary.

>"cuck porn"

I remember when people were losing their sanity over this on /operate/. I just can't help but think that when you go down this route of classifying certain types of porn as "cuck" porn,

that you'll inevitably have people continually trying to redefine what exactly that would entail.

Now don't get me wrong. If someone is repeatedly making the exact same post, and only changing the image. Then of course that should be removed. but that's called spam, not "cuck" porn.

>5. Any Vol who bans any poster out of personal dislike or …

One of the reasons i was given for "fun bans" was that it helps keep the position interesting for the volunteers. Because they do of course do all of this for free, and you perhaps wouldn't want

this to become too serious for them. And keeping vols around may become hard if the position becomes too serious.

>>1041

I don't mean that bit about the cyanide, by the way.

Wrath is just a vice of mine.

Tell nugger I still love him and we should have sex in the butt :^)

>"cuck porn"

Sorry, I got lazy, I should have explained that one better. Look, personally, I just don't care one way or the other about any kind of erotic stuff that has dicks in it, and while I certainly recognize and appreciate the risks and corruption of a diversified world culture, I think it's worth it. I've never been on board with /pol/ and it's funny watching them get triggered by these threads. However, they do sometimes get outright spammed across the catalog. Let me think of a definition:

Interracial porn thread which contains text such as:

>"cuck porn"

>"poor little white boy"

>"your wives will never fuck you again"

So on.

Like, a thread or two, who cares? But loads at once? Honestly, at this point, it might be better to just say "no more than two threads open threads about any one topic at once, no more than one thread about pedos or bronies due to past faggotry". But then there would be a massive outcry. Still, for the sake of argument, see briefer idea of rules in next post.

On this note, the "OH MY GOD I HATE NIGGERS SO MUCH" threads are sometimes just as spammed and could be contained to the same one or two containment threads as other /pol/ stuff could be. That's of course what we're still talking about here, avoiding catalog spam like was done all along with the pedos and bronies. Now, some groups are more popular than those and would rage hard about how not keeping the double standard they personally like is SJW (you see the irony I injected into that sentence?), but what can you do? Anons who can't think objectively and don't want fairness and clarity in pre-existing moderation are anons who ought to love 4chan as it is.

Btw, do you really think there's any chance they'd abandon the opportunity for comfortably vague policies on rulefagging? I mean, I want to believe, but I don't see why they would. And why are you even still listening to me, is this some sort of setup?

>>1041

Right, before I finish them, let me answer the other part.

>One of the reasons i was given for "fun bans" was that it helps keep the position interesting for the volunteers.

I'm not just being paranoid, it's just that I always see this preceding actual mod abuse with LOLSORANDOM as the justification and "we don't want those sorts of autists (shitlords) here". Not only does it mostly pander to actual newfags and my-feelings-before-your-rights types, it's just corrupt to begin with.

>Because they do of course do all of this for free

So /sp/ tells us.

>and you perhaps wouldn't want this to become too serious for them.

I want them to take it seriously insofar as actually doing what they should be doing on /b/ (which has never been solidly laid down before, as you've been saying, but some of it should be pretty obvious about what not to do). A child playing with a gun is no safer than a roid-raging psycho with a gun just waiting for an excuse. It's not cute to anyone with any self-awareness when either needlessly pulls the trigger. (this is merely a metaphor, and in no way insinuates or implies a belief that the 2nd amendment is somehow expired because it's not longer fashionable)

>keeping vols around may become hard if the position becomes too serious

This is another one of those things that gets said a lot, but two things:

One, I really doubt finding people on 8chan willing to guard over a board and protect it will become an issue with /pol/, /ints/, etc around, the problem is finding people who don't want to push other people around because they have a button the other people they disagree with don't, because they're the guarder and protector and what they say goes.

Two, if someone does not regularly browse /b/ anyways, you do not want them as a mod. Here is how to be a good /b/ vol:

>be an anonymous faggot on /b/

>you do not have to be there all the time, but you should be there enough to be in touch with it and know something about the sort of threads which were posted last week and the week before

>browse /b/ not because you are a duty-bound vol, but because you are a /b/tard

>participate in threads, shitpost and make OC

>get in autistic and/or actually very interesting arguments about anything from world politics to avian trivia

>ugh, some faggot is spamming fish again

>log in as vol in another tab if not already logged

>ban yet another IP of theirs and clean up the fish if another vol hasn't beaten you to it

>browse /b/ some more, keeping an eye on the catalog for the fish to show back up

>oh man, the pedos are making seven threads and spamming other threads again with their "everyone is a pedo" or some similar bullshit

>delete the other threads, tell them in some of the worst-hit unrelated threads to take it back to the containment thread, capcode optional here depending on what you think will get best results

>if they keep spamming, short b& (like an hour) with reason: "Keep it in the pedo thread" or something very similar

>when people evade and make a thread including a false version of how/why you b& them, post once with capcode explaining calmly and truthfully what actually happened and post screenshots if you took some (which, vols probably should just get in the habit of doing that for all thread deletions and bans, in fact let me add that), and leave it at that. No capcoded responses defending your version or the genuineness of your screenshot, no samefagging yourself as anon, just let it go, and don't delete the threads or re-ban unless they spam like they did for the thing that first go them banned.

Really, it's just browsing /b/ like you would be anyways but with some cleanup and with a level head and a fair outlook. Now that can drag people down, but the thing a vol should realize also is that they are still just an anon. If they don't feel like dealing with some spam or are irritable and just don't feel like they can make an objective call at the moment, leave it. Even if logged in. I know the reason Boox went on his spree is because someone was bugging or insulting him about not doing enough vol work, but I have no idea whatsoever if that means they were harassing him to meet a hotpocket quota or that he just hadn't logged in or dealt with catalog spam for a month. No vol should feel obligated to do more than a little cleaning while browsing /b/ unless the catalog is being full-on spammed and no one else is beating them to the punch to deal with it yet.

>>1043

Of course, most people who came here looking for "free speech", not even counting the ones who came here just because b&, have no true conception of what it entails, or lack the discipline or motivation to think critically and uphold an even standard. The ideal person for any position of power would be a George Washington, you know, the reluctant reliable. Has experience with the board, has a stake in it as businessmen would say…spends some time on it, not obsessively necessarily, but actually gets it. Doesn't shirk responsibility, doesn't give preferential treatment, thinks clearly and does not desire power. In fact, you want someone who mildly dislikes the idea of deleting someone else's thread, even if it's one they dislike. You want people who wouldn't want to be a vol, but don't want someone worse than the being the vol and handing out bullshit preferential rulefaggotry, arbitrary/preferential "fun bans" (i.e. rulefaggotry without the need to even pretend to be doing it for the sake of rules), and so on. Which is weird, because that's not the sort of person who would necessarily plunk down their email and roll for a vol position. Maybe you could make a "no rerolls" stipulation in the thread, it has to be the first time the email's mentioned, to cut down on power-hungry faggots and get more casually interested anons. Of course some will be like "lol jk", more will accept eagerly but never even log in more than once (just cull any vol accounts with no login after two weeks, unless they said they'd go on vacation or something…maybe this was why HW had them check into IRC on wizardchan, because the current software there and here doesn't support BOs seeing last login of vols? If this is the case, just say "send an email saying you're checking in to this address (an email specifically for these check-ins and nothing else) every week" (or every two weeks) in order to avoid being removed as vol.

Then, naturally, random vol abuse is a problem and you have to be ready to get rid of vols both new and old but especially new. You definitely want the board log public so users can help with that if you miss something.

So, the "roll dice to vol" may seem like a dangerous idea, but not really any moreso than getting people you like, know, or trust because of IRC convos…because that risks not just bad vols, but bad or compromised BOs.

And, I mean, it's not like you can very easily just find a batch of George Washingtons on /b/ and coax/cajole/sense-of-duty them into being vols, as far as I know. I suppose if you saw an anon saying something really fair and good in a thread and got them to share an email with you for further discussion, you could ask them if they wanted to be a vol via that email, but that's slow.

Requiring vols to "check in" for a "real conversation" in IRC to keep their positions is pure cancer. I have no idea if the screenshot posted in the /operate/ thread is factual or not, but if it is that's some shit HW really needs to rethink if he wants to act like he still gives a fuck about free speech. I've already been over the whole thing, but being "a part of the family" should not be a requirement for vols.

You want to keep everyone on the same page?

Actually take the time to write some clear, consistent rules instead of vague shlock that changes with convenience and the board owner's mood and leaves lots of "wiggle room".

You need to announce an important change to rules/policies? Send an email. That's what it ought to be, vols are required to check their emails at least twice a week. It's not like we don't have cock.li closely related to all of this anyways. And when there is an important issue about something like a rule change? At least make a blotter announcement linking to the updated rules or sticky a thread describing the change. That should be obvious, of course.

But, if vols aren't required to be very active, it means you have more low-investment accounts to be handed off to /pol/, /int*/, /leftypol/, washed-up SA faggots, etc. I get the risk. I get that. I get the reason for an IRC and a conversation carried on, I really do understand why, but it just never leads to anything good in the end. Better to have lots of problems with vols and periodically be deleting vol accounts, and for anons to understand what's going on and why it's happening, than to have stability, power creep, and "fun bans". Vol is just an addition to a /b/tard, it's like a guy concealed carrying in case someone pulls a gun, not a uniformed cop prowling for miscreants.

Maybe it's not ordered very well, but I guess that's all of the thoughts I have about fun bans and vols. Better rule declaration next. The funny thing is, I actually didn't write any new rules for enforcement on /b/…I wrote rules which defined most of the enforcement that already exists on /b/, and then I wrote a whole set of rules to restrict other vol activity. It's a set of rules to keep rules from taking over /b/.

New Revised Idea For Rules Now That I'm Done Being A Tumblr-Tier Mad Faggot About Nugger's Shitty Rules

There are actually more rules for users technically (actually the same rules are just more broken out and sorted now), but it's shorter overall, specifically refers to nothing but the two groups already mentioned (while still, to some degree at least, culling them and future groups from doing the same thing in a way that directly prevents the catalog spam they cause…no more than two threads per topic), and is shorter than the mod rules section in both text and number of rules, which I think is very important. Asking more of a regular user than your willing, eager do-it-for-frees is just backwards if you want to protect free expression.

Also, I made it less vague with some hard and fast arbitrary but decent numbers.

Rules For Posters

0. Don't post anything illegal under US law. Especially don't post child pornography. In lieu of a court of law, global admins will apply the DOST test to their best judgement in the case of reported gray areas. This is an 8chan global policy, not /b/-specific.

1. Do not flood the catalog with duplicate spam threads, as this precludes the possibility of other users posting in other threads without immediately being 404ed. Catalog spam actually does hinder other people's free speech by killing unique threads faster just to spam more bullshit.

2. Do not flood the catalog with duplicates or simalcrums of threads that have already been made by someone else and are not yet at post (not bump) limit, or threads with very similar topics. For instance, if there are already two political propaganda spamming threads, spam yours in theirs too whether you agree or not. Great way to get what you came for, political arguments. If there is already a "roll thread", or worse, two, post your roll thing in one so anons interested in rolling can see it rather than making yet another one to push another unique thread off the end of the catalog.

2. Do not make a pedo or pony thread if there is even one pedo or pony thread in the catalog and not yet at post limit (not bump limit). Both of these groups have long and tedious histories of spamming the catalog with their threads and spamming their topics all across all other threads on /b/ at once. The pedo thread is where discussion of pedophilia and hebephilia belongs.

3. Do not make a thread advertising something (including your board) if there is already a thread advertising that same thing on the catalog. Especially if you just made that thread. If there already eight or more threads in the catalog advertising boards or other things, post your advertisement in one of them.

>>1045

Rules for Vols (and the Board Owner)

0. When in doubt, leave it alone.

1. Delete/ban for catalog flooding - more than 5 new threads created as fast as possible at the same time by the same user, usually the same exact thread or slight variants of it.

2. Ask people to post containment thread material in the containment threads before taking any action or deleting anything. A capcode or show of authority is not always necessary for this. Only once a user has been warned or contacted should deletion take effect for continued posting outside of containment threads, and only in cases where it's pedo/pony content, being spammed in 5 or more unrelated threads, or following (within 24 hours)/simultaneous to catalog spamming on the same topic.

3. Delete continuing posts or duplicate threads of things belonging in existing containment threads (pony/pedo). When choosing a thread to delete, delete the most recently created one regardless of which has the most replies. Do not count threads at post limit (not bump limit) as containment threads. It is up to the vol to check this as a routine precaution before deleting a thread. In cases where users may not understand why a thread is deleted, it may be more appropriate to post the reason in the thread itself (with capcode), link the containment thread in your post (it's just courtesy), and bumplock the thread instead of deleting it. Advertisement, be it board or commercial, consisting of more than one new thread at once, can be deleted at once.

4. Constant new thread spam and/or disregard for containment threads may eventually merit banning merely because of the difficulty of dealing with the spam. Beginning ban length for continuing catalog spam/containment thread material spam is 5 hours, to be doubled with each subsequent banning for doing the same thing upon returning.

5. Any Vol who bans any poster out of personal dislike or distaste, because their post showed up in the report queue (but did not run afoul of the Rules For Posters), because someone asked them to (other than requests for oneself to be banned for whatever reason), or because "the community wanted it" will be grounds for the immediate dismissal of the vol in question. "Chaotic randumb" moderators are in direct contradiction to the guaranteed freedom of speech 8chan advertised on 4chan /b/. A user being unpopular (for instance, an SJW making a stupid vanity thread) or too PC, critical of /b/, or whatever, is also not grounds for a ban or deletion or "joke ban".

6. New vols will be chosen by the board mod posting a sticky whenever more are needed for whatever reason, and requiring interested parties to post an email address and use the dice roll function (since post numbers can be gamed). Whoever rolls a winning number announced in the OP with the dice required in the OP gets to be a vol (up to as many as are being added, also expressed in the OP). No rerolls with the same email address, to try and keep overeager hotpockets from getting a better chance than assorted random assholes who will be slightly less likely to be shit and break the Rules For Vols. Board owner will be especially vigilant in the period following this so as to be ready to quickly remove vols and undo the inevitable damage bad vols will do by banning people for random things and letting the power go to their head or doing it for the super epick lulz (…like notlily). Most vols found this way will be shit and quickly exposed as shit. The hope would be that the vol selection process would not have to be done very often, as the surviving vols would stay active and responsible.

7. If there are more than two threads about one fairly specific topic, or for one activity (like roll threads, propaganda spam threads, infographics, etc), remind anons that the other threads exist. If there is a lot of this sort of thing, or more than two or three threads about something, and especially if they have been posted by the same users, delete newer threads until down to two (or three if the board is slow and anons are interested, and again not counting full threads)

>>1040

I can definitely support this set of rules, although I disagree about chaotic bans

>>1047

The thing is, a joke ban is just for the joke, so there's no reason for it to be more than, say, one second. Even that, really, according to all of that stuff 8chan was advertised is, would be against the whole point unless the user literally, and not figuratively, asked for the ban.

In my opinion.

Catalog was wiped. Catalog spam? Who knows, I wasn't there at that moment. Archive of post-wipe catalog:

https://archive.is/RWICJ

I looked at a few of the polls in the threads and they were all very much very in favor of, essentially, razing the current moderation to the ground. How much the polls were gamed, I have no idea, to be fair. Meanwhile, in the thread, there are no further replies from nugger yet particularly persistent anons who have interest in and have read the /operate/ threads are going out of their way to defend notlily and attack glasses and whoever else brings up notlily. Apparently this volship really is that important to him.

Sticky thread updated archive:

https://archive.is/4YuGr

New version of the rules…"joke rules" deleted, declaration of intent added at bottom…but "everything is up to vol discretion" still present:

https://archive.is/3MPdl

This new line was added prior to the removal of the extra rules, as seen in:

https://archive.is/89sxf

(Thanks to whoever archived that)

Glassesfag/Quaker here.

OP is a doing a service to 8chan. It's amazing how hard it is for Hotpockets to admit that week long to permanent bans aren't "lol le fun" bans, or to hold their own accountable. It's even more amazing how they're capable of ignoring every anon who comes forward, every post, and keep putting forth factually incorrect assertions that it's "just one anon" or "just the mob rules thread".

A vol who thinks permanently banning anons is fun is still a vol on /b/. The way IRC has handled this is unfortunately proving there's a major problem. Whether that problem is an IRC circlejerk, an instinct to sweep everything under the rug, or just laziness/incompetence is yet to be determined. This is exactly the kind of toxic environment in leadership which types like censor-happy SJWs use to infiltrate websites and create the type of cliques you see on 4chan or Reddit. It shouldn't need to be said why 8chan should stand against that.

8chan's current biggest vulnerability is a human vulnerability, and it's the lack of oversight and accountability among 8chan's own vols. OP and anons like him are more important to keeping 8chan afloat than any of the vols involved in this, so I hope they're listening to him.

>because, clickbait value so people would notice and comment, getting more response from Nunu.

There's no real process by which a volunteer can be held accountable on 8chan unless you actually get someone's attention. Even then, a conciliatory tone as one anon alone won't help you make any progress. Vols talk among themselves and are very unlikely to actually do anything about a fellow vol. Nunu's latest post is about coming to an "understanding", like previous posts about "misunderstandings", and while part of that is an attempt to smooth things over to make it go away, it also shows how begrudging his acceptance is that there's any problem in the first place. How a vol treats anons is clearly not an issue of importance to them.

Nunu's next action will likely be a bad compromise, in which the vol keeps their vol. Nugger's next action will be to defend the vol and feign ignorance. Notlily's next action will be to push the "lol joek funban" line again, say the ban lengths were an accident, and possibly a fake apology but I doubt it. All of this is a push back against the notion that vols are accountable to the community.

It's a leadership clique, whether they realize it or not. They'll placate you if you let them, so don't accept a bad compromise.

Oh yeah, and verifying that the following posts were actually me.

>>1006 >>1008 >>1009

>>1012 >>1013 >>1014

>>1015 >>1017 >>1018

>>1019 >>1020 >>1021

>>1022 >>1024 >>1033

>>1035 >>1037 >>1038

>>1039 >>1040 >>1042

>>1043 >>1044 >>1045

>>1046 >>1048 >>1049

>>1050 >>1051 >>1052

>>1053 >>1054

Poseidon, here's a request:

Make all e-mails you sent to kekec( >>1027 ) public. Likely by posting them here. Kekec is one of those /int*/ people that you just posted about on >>1057

And beside sit might be a interesting read.

>>1059

I will. I'll also ask him if I can make his public.

So far all I've sent is like, one word, and he sent me back a long thing I haven't read all the way through yet.

I have a little familiarity with him from hanging out on /int/ back when it was actually a migration from 4chan's /int/, which was one of my favorite boards.

Just finished the "mob rule" thread you linked at the top, but do you have an archive of the "post itt to get banned" thread notlily made?

Just finished the "mob rule" thread you linked at the top, but do you have an archive of the "post itt to get banned" thread notlily made?

Blotter updated to include Whose Line Is It Anyways? joke underlining how wonderfully lighthearted /b/ is.

https://archive.is/LBugX

Rules page remains the same, ensuring us that moderation only intends to keep posts within US law while noting above that everything is moderator discretion, i.e. they can hotpocket and ban the users however they want and you must email nugger to complain, but there are no guidelines for how they should actually act, so you can just be completely ignored.

>>1062

I wasn't aware one existed. May not have seen it (I don't go on /b/ every day, or necessarily stay there long when I do), or glasses may have been making up whatever was convenient for him to claim at the time to help ensure nobody takes the problem seriously…

>>1063

Apologies, *assuring

OP, I hope you didn't expect the vols to care at all about the corrupt bans:

"but the simple reason notlily isn't being held accountable. Is because you are clearly a minority when it comes to this issue. " –Nunu: re hotpocket perma bans

If Nunu's been communicating with you, please post excerpts, especially anything indicating he cared about this. The entire time this thing has been going on, he's been intent on keeping this vol safe from accountability. If he's been trying to placate you with niceties, post them.

>>1065

I haven't emailed him at all.

I'd also like to note regarding this that what the majority of /b/ users want was not the issue. Regardless of the skewed perspective and samefagging nugger seems to hold and carry out, the guarantee was that /b/ would not be 4chan's "no rules for mods" /b/ and now that's exactly what it is. I don't care how many /pol/locks or freshly banned faggots crawl out of the woodwork to crow about how EPICK XDDDDD it is for vols to be hotpocketing faggots, that is not the /b/ the exodus left 4chan for, and it is a completely redundant /b/ given that 4chan already exists and pulls the same shit on that /b/.

Where's the consistency? Where's the verifiability?

Me:

>>>/operate/41003

For what it's worth, nay.

This seems less like wanting to improve 8chan and more like wanting to feel important. "Mods should fear their users" is great and all, but must you tote a guillotine around with you wherever you post?

>>1067

Archive so far of what I replied to, in case it gets deleted or something:

https://archive.is/U4eRx

A sensationalism thread by glasses containing some conversation between anons and nunu, also a wall of text on IRC from me:

https://archive.is/HI4nA

As one of the people who may have sort of gotten the ball rolling about IRC, I'd like to say something on the topic.

The point is not the overall "atmosphere" of any given channel at any given time. Now, it's true that in an IRC channel you tend to have mostly people who consider themselves by default the "core community" of a website or project, which means a few actual devs and then a bunch of mods and tripfags who link each other threads they've made or found funny on the three boards they go to, and lots and lots of pictures of lolis pouring tea and looking smug, or whatever. Because they ran the #17 board for three months, or they know so and so, or they have experience dealing with these crazy anons, or they were a mod on buttfuckchan.ass for four years, or they sent HW a pic of their sweet new rig and he sent them an emoji, they tend to think that they, and by extension IRC, are the soul of the "real 8chan". These people tend to fly into full retard mode if anyone new comes into IRC without first having earned their social stars and points out how shit one of them is. This is because hugboxes breed sensitive people. Even if they keep up a front on the boards, they're sensitive on IRC and they stick up for dey friends bae xoxxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxo and will spam/ridicule any dissenting opinion.

But, like I said, this is not the problem. The problem is "come talk on IRC if you have a problem". After all, anyone with a real problem will go the extra mile and, apparently, the /int*/ and SA faggots have a magical spell on them preventing them from using IRC or something? I mean, are we really going to keep pretending there's no overlap between the regular IRC circlejerk and all of these various "8chan attack groups"? Circlejerkers love to incite drama maybe more than Tumblrites do, and they take endless pride in showing how much they don't care about thing even more than their fellows. Now I remember quite clearly how everything used to be discussed on /meta/, then HW got sick of listening to retards sperg on /meta/ and made /operate/, strictly for technical site issues (and not, by the way, this bullshit) at the time. Then he was like "okay cool" and stopped ever going on /meta/, so instead of Swami and 3 other retards posting there regularly it was basically just Swami. So if anyone made a thread on /meta/ about a mod issue like this, it was basically guaranteed HW would not see it…or at least would not respond to it, and do nothing. So really, I can't blame people with actual issues for posting /meta/ issues on /operate/. There was a golden period of sorts where he'd move /meta/ threads back to /meta/ and in the process maybe actually notice them if they brought up actual concerns, but that passed and now he's retreated from /operate/. And we know he's busy and all, and I at least am well aware of the level of obnoxious well-poisoning spam various le epic troles shoveled upon /operate/, /b/, /meta/ and so on during the period he left, but if he doesn't check either of these boards (regularly), doesn't answer his email (anyone have an archive of the thread where vincent finally disabled his cock.li email because he wouldn't answer a question?), and the only way to communicate with him is to wait in #8chan until he's actually there, when he lived on the opposite side of the world from most of us, or figure out whichever channel he's more likely to be in, or pm him and wait a day to see if he ignores you or not…the whole "just take it up with HW" thing is sort of a ridiculous notion. Lots of people use IRC as a "spam gate" because it sometimes takes more than 5 seconds to get on it, but the point is that you have a text-based communication which actually keeps solid posts which can be archived, you have multiple abandoned lines of communication in HW-created boards on the site which are ignored, and the line is still "well why don't you just take it up with HW then?".

>>1069

I hope I don't need to remind everyone that it was IRC political bullshit coupled with IRL social bullshit that led to 4chan going to shit. No amount of media attention was going to do anything, 4chan had already had plenty of that. That said, the "Fappening" crowd was pretty retarded. Yeah, famous tits leaked, so save it and shut up about it after five threads or so. A days-long circlejerk? Caring about celebrities that much in any sense is the result of people to stupid to get that the "bro culture" thing was irony seeping into the site and feeling like they belong until they become the retarded majority. A famous nude is still just a nude. Maybe it's a rare foil nude, even, but days and days of the whole catalog on /b/ being filled with nothing but that? Fuck's sake.

Anyways, point being, IRCs are generally shit and make any poster on an imageboard, no matter how involved, an "outsider" by default because they won't know about things discussed in the IRC, unless of course they find the prospect of lurking in an endless vacuous circlejerk with occasionally worthwhile posts pleasant. Now you could argue that /b/ fits that description well, but you know what /b/ lacks that IRC thrives on? Respect. You have to be polite and respect people and pretend you like them if you don't. Just like le Japanese XDDDDDD. It's a load of shit. If I wanted to pretend to agree with people I would go on genericbusinessforum.tld or pretty much any damn site out there. Including torrent trackers, hilariously enough.

IRC is like a free pass for otherwise reasonable people to be insufferable cunts about whatever serious thing they're addressing. "Site policies? lol those aren't real XDDDDDDDDDDD" is common fare. If you go in a coding help IRC channel where everyone's busy lurking in the hopes that someone will come in and ask something, you will immediately get five "You shouldn't be doing that" or "Have you read all five of the books on this language?" comments. No matter how bored and idle people on IRC are, no matter what it is you want to talk about, if you have not been there passing around smug animus for at least six months while saying nothing of substance, they will always compete with each other to find a way to make anyone new who joins a channel suck their e-peen.

Source: I have lurked in a lot of IRCs, including #8chan for sample periods throughout the time I've been on the site.

Special Addendum due to constant bitching about walls of text:

Anywhere else, I simplify. Anywhere else, I dumb things down. Anywhere else, I summarize.

On 8chan, I write what I think in its original format, asides included. The asides are often important in their own right. Imageboards were never about religiously topical posts anyways.

I will keep writing things in the way which I think them, sans parceling them into clickbait. If I decide to make an inforgraphic or something, then I'll summarize.

Hey Poseidon, are you still there?

>>1072

Yeah, just really busy. Demanding semester. Still watching some 8chan events, still planning to email a few people eventually about some things.

Will have more stuff to post here at some point, as well.

Anything specific you wanted?

Time for some Infinity Next stuff now that it's in beta. Just going to post some discussion I've been having or seeing over on beta.8ch.net

Starting with some probably irrelevant stuff about markdown vs infinitymark from /fucknext/. 32f90f is me. I'm not going to fix the formatting so this is just a direct copypaste of the text from there, so format's a bit ass but the information will be preserved for those interested.

     247fd9
    No. 27

    Next posting ru... .png
     Download (75.43 kiB)

    Anyone else have a problem with this? It's more complicated and unnecessary than it has to be. Everyone is already used to the easy original 8chan posting powers, this is just even harder to memorize.

        Anonymous Developer
        2015-11-24 15:33:08
        b72191
        No. 28
        >>34

        are you seriously saying that markdown is more complicated than a hacked together set of email formats and forum bbcodes?

        pretty sure you're alone on this.

        Anonymous
        2015-11-26 00:54:55
        32f90f
        No. 34
        >>35 >>36 >>39

            >>28

        Actually, no, he's not alone on this.
        Markdown is quite obviously more complicated. He just posted the graphic, and it has more things than infinitymark or whatever the fuck it's called.
        Maybe you figure the average user is actually stupid enough to think the term "hacked-together" has any sort of practical meaning with regard to formatting syntax, and maybe you're right, but sadly I am not.
        If a thing being popular or standard makes that thing good and right and clear, you'd better start confessing Catholic and using Windows exclusively real fucking quick. Infinitymark (or whatever) was good because it just didn't get in the fucking way.
        I don't give a shit if Stallman, Jesus, and Dawkins all said that markdown was the best way to do things and that it was wrong to use apostrophes for formatting, infinitymark was convenient. It was good. It was better than BBcode or markdown. If that were not the case, the endless whiny faggots would have been whining about it. Notice how there was almost zero whining about it, at all, when everything else got picked apart? That's because it was so easy and useful there was nothing to criticize.

        The two most common formatting marks used apostrophes...no need to press Shift or move fingers far off the asdf jkl;

        Everything had a delimiter, even if it were a line-affecting thing where that was redundant, just for stylistic consistency, and clarity for the writer.

        Apostrophes for basic formatting, underline and strikethrough using the characters that inform them through the way they look, and the same for spoilers...star being the common character to censor things with. Most things double before and double after, easy to type and hard to mistype or forget about and coincidentally delimit later for a weird selection.

        Code was, and should have been, different, because writing it in BBcode style associates it with...code. And it's just enough effort so retards won't just spam with code view all the time.

>>1074

        Anonymous
        2015-11-26 01:02:01
        84f37a
        No. 35
        >>37

            >>34

        IMO the only thing worse is the spoiler tag which is a bitch ass motherfucker to type, plus it's broken half the time.

        Anonymous
        2015-11-26 01:05:54
        32f90f
        No. 36

            >>34

        Redtext was slightly less obvious, but still, parallel lines, headlines? Not difficult, and another character with shift unneeded.

        Don't get me wrong, I've nothing against markdown, and it's still markedly better than BBcode or similar, but this here is indeed more complicated; partially through offering more features, but partially because yes, Hotwheels' bastard child of a markup language is pretty much the best practical thing I've ever come across. It's impure and limited, and that's the point. It's simple, convenient, intuitive.

        Also, in my opinion, greenbang is a shitty mark and flanking greenbang is even worse. Look down at your keyboard. Now look back up at the infographic. You may notice that these keys are on diametrically opposite sides of the keyboard, and that both of the characters require Shift, so you either have to skate around with your pinky on left shift or juggle fingers every time you want to leave a spoiler. Popping off a couple of asterisks was way easier and better, and that wouldn't change if the entire IETF had a moot and signed off on markdown as the very best thing ever.

        Also, the amount of things using that goddamn grave accent mark is retarded. Hey, you know what you could use that doesn't require you to either curl your whole hand so your pinky can reach or stumble around with your least coordinated finger while fucking up asdf jkl;? An apostrophe. Wow, wouldn't that be something. Hey, and if you don't want it to accidentally occur due to normal punctuation like an apostrophe, you could always use something that's never used in actual punctuation, not just is rarely used like a grave mark, and also lies within normal typing range...two single apostrophes in a row. Remember, no one types that because it spaces terribly and because apostrophe's shift is a special character for that already.

        But shit, I guess that wouldn't be standard enough.

        Again, I have no problems with markdown or with moving to markdown, just don't bullshit whenever someone disagrees.

        Anonymous
        2015-11-26 01:06:29
        32f90f
        No. 37

            >>35

        Yeah, looks like we agree about that spoiler.

        Anonymous
        2015-11-26 01:06:55
        55692e
        No. 38

        The spoiler is a custom tag which is why it's broken.

        Anonymous
        2015-11-26 01:11:54
        6abfaf
        No. 39

            >>34

        I have to agree with the logic for using apostrophes instead of asterisks for more common formatting, ' is a lot easier to hit on the keyboard than shift+8, very convenient.

        Anonymous
        2015-11-26 01:41:28
        32f90f
        No. 40

        ANNOUNCEMENT

        Heading six is cool though.

        Anonymous
        2015-11-26 04:49:04
        14ec23
        No. 41
        >>43

        Well the advantage is most people already know Markdown from all the other websites that use it. At least for me I never bothered to learn how formatting works on "old" 8ch, but here I already know it.

        Anonymous
        2015-11-26 04:51:01
        32f90f
        No. 43

            >>41

        That's completely true, but it does not make infinitymark bad or complicated on its own merit.

Wait, I remembered archive.is exists.

One sec.

…and beta.8ch.net is 503 for maintenance. Hope the stuff's still there when it returns.

The above as an archive:

https://archive.is/R5MPX

The IDs vary but Venezuela in these is me.

For anyone who doesn't already know, ## Developer is Josh and if it's a post about Next (or really anything) and is unsigned and the flag is Singapore, it's almost certainly Josh. Also note that archive.is doesn't accurately reflect the post box or some of the other formatting of beta.8ch.net, at least it doesn't look the same in my browser.

https://archive.is/sTFiA - Catalog stuff

https://archive.is/3HxLd - lol spoiler tags

https://archive.is/kPkOi - how i closed webm

Regarding overboard/multiboards/board suggestions.

https://archive.is/AawUl

New filesize limit is apparently 10MB. Nice.

>>1081

Oh, and the pic is the ban list.

Which is accessible via logging in.

…apparently only by logging in.

…and does not list ban reasons.

…nothing you click on or mouse over currently will open something displaying the ban message/reason.

So I wonder if that's just a consequence of development, or if there's no longer going to be a global ban log publicly available. Maybe even not one for global bans and global moderation stuff?

You have to have an account to view basic site transparency stuff?

And as mentioned in the same thread, the site essentially tracks you across all boards once you're logged in, as evidenced by it offering you a capcode selection. Still no answer, explanation, or elucidation regarding whether mods can track you across the site and de-anonymize you…can associate your posts on any board with your account…which for me and other board owners is the account of whichever board we run that we've signed into to do all of the admin stuff.

Maybe it was mentioned in some now-buried thread on /operate/ or /next/ either here or on the beta or hell, maybe on any given infinitydev or beta board (or, dare I say, an IRC channel?), and Josh is merely ignoring the questions because he's disgusted I would not have already seen and read every single fucking thread he ever has regarding his project (or read all of the source code)…which he gets paid for. Or maybe he's just too busy being triggered about Pale Moon. Or maybe him and Hotwheels actually just think it would be super ebin to be able to tell who everyone is so they can protect the users from pedos, and by that I mean spammers in general, and by that I mean offensive shitposters, and by that I mean undesirables.

Anyways, it's a slippery fucking slope I'd rather get some official clarification on sometime this century. Maybe on, I don't know, a static webpage. Hey, the home page of the open beta could even, you know, link to a page containing such clarifications or something crazy like that. No, I don't mean a git repository link, either.

With that being written, seeing this board owner here reminds me that shit is truly falling apart. We've had >>>/dir/ give up lately too.

Do you have any comments about his new sticky?

>>1083

That was exactly what I was going to do, but certainly not on the 25th when Josh was busy giving progressively less and less helpful answers to everyone on the board and getting snippy over every little question. I certainly will ask about it when he's less busy if it's not by then resolved, to cut down on the chance of him just writing it off entirely because.

This is where I'm supposed to express my sympathy about how HW is screwing him over with the deadlines, but it's not like sincerer people haven't already beaten me to it. Yeah, Hotwheels screwed him. And the codebase screwed Hotwheels…though he wrote some of it. And Josh seems to have prioritized some of the strangest or most involved things in development up until now rather than starting with parity. The software itself is less important than not roping the userbase into certain given methodologies.

Regarding the /dir/ closure, I interestingly just saw, participated in, and archived a thread about it on /b/ and took the opportunity to call out whichever /leftypol/ or /ggwhatever/ promoters were shilling it. Everyone's back into the old "board allegiance" bullshit with their political lines, only with none of the joking nature of last spring. Every time you go to /leftypol/ in particular it's another thread about "spinning a narrative", because apparently there has never in the history of socialism been even a single "activist" who was not just a constant liar.

Anyways, it's not HW's job to protect people from hotpocket moderators of any sort. Now it can be argued that /v/, like /b/, is a special case in that it represents a major migration, but /v/ was full of rulefaggotry and mod corruption back on 4chan too, going a long ways back, and the /v/ crowd is devoted to that. So it would be ridiculous for HW to interfere. The whole dossiers thing I have heard the bullet points of before and while it's pathetic and creepy, and aided by the mod tools…well, see the comments in the archive:

https://archive.is/paTRx

As to the actual closing of >>>/dir/ itself, I understand it, but to act like something has changed indicates some degree of misunderstanding. I think I'll actually post over there about it in more detail.

Unrelated note: I recently remembered some stuff I did on here back in the early days which helped me place my switch to 8ch a little earlier than I previously thought, September 2014 or maybe late August. I don't know which exodus that would be most associated with, but I saw the shilling for 8ch on /b/ if I remember correctly.

Archive of the >>>/dir/ thread including what I had to say about it:

https://archive.is/5xEit

Also gets into some 8chan gg history a little bit for people who don't know.

One more thing back on the issue of the Next ban log:

There's a reason I wrote all of that out before even posting about it on >>>/next/

The reason is that I really shouldn't have to post about it on >>>/next/

I get that it's a beta. I get that it's premature. But really, just ever for even testing purposes sticking the master ban log with board bans and globals under user accounts, and only there when it's the simplest thing in the world code-wise to display it as public to all instead of coding it in as a part of the accounts…why?

The global ban list has always been one of the big transparency things about 8ch. Initially everything went there; now there's an option to not show bans there. It's a little murky in current Infinity's software, but there's a recourse for the users to know banning is still going on by looking at the settings.json…board settings being technically public so mods can't lie about general banning as easily and just pretend it's not there.

Now probably only me, /sp/, the rest of the getballers and some of /tech/ actually know about the json outside of the actual devs, but hey, it's there. Actually, that's another issue I have to bring up about Next if it doesn't end up showing obviously in the initial "official release"; board settings. For all I know they're already publicly displayed, or will be on beta tomorrow, or whatever. It's all up in the air at the moment.

But anyways, the point about the universal ban log is that it's a very basic transparency thing and to put it behind an account wall…even if it's just as a filler for what will eventually be a "this board" or "all boards you own" ban log, and…to the best of my knowledge, at least, given no obvious links and both /bans/ and /bans.html/ returning nothing…only behind this login wall, should raise obvious red flags within the mind of a dev who cares about anonymity and privacy. Certainly one who claims to be a long-standing member of the imageboard community and all about it. So it's not just about this issue or whether it gets resolved (though that is important), it's about whether the dev, the administration as a whole, the "team" is really still about transparency, anonymity, so on. It feels weird talking about this after just talking on /dir/ about how HW wasn't obligated to protect users from admins keeping tabs on them by hashed IP…but that was about freedom of board administration, core to 8ch, and this wouldn't affect it…and is a feature already in 8ch.

Also, if I remember correctly, and I very well may not, Josh is also "from" Wizarchan, whose users just seem to have this pattern on 8ch of being smug and aloof but inconsistent and wanting to be in control of things. I spent some time reading through the archived stuff over on /wiz/ back when it had just been added, and talking to, watching, getting to recognize Wizardchan sentiments and expressions. And watching people like Smiley, how they act and expect other people to act and how they manage authority. So yeah, I have some vague unease about all of that too and how much of Wizardchan overlaps into "positions of power" in 8ch. Obviously, though, making rules to prevent that sort of thing would be extremely un-8ch and I don't advocate it…I'm just stating unease.

>>1088

Note: That was back when most of the Smiley posts were actually still by the one guy.

To summarize this previous post in one sentence: The issue extends beyond the specific problem to the general feeling that anyone who would put the universal ban log there and only there, and also track user account across boards at the same time, is either badly out of touch with the point of 8ch or just doesn't care, or even actively wants to screw the userbase that remains with the new software.

>>1090

I felt it necessary to state what actually happened in the past since everyone's always lying about it…and the gg past drama does play into the current situation, albeit strangely.

/v/irgins always take it as a personal insult when I say something about /v/, but the problem has always been rulefaggotry and we all know it. For months now I've just been going to a variety of smaller boards about specific games or series anyways. Most of them are great if a little slow. I do hope people continue to disseminate into better boards, but that wasn't the point, the point was about HW's place as an administrator.

>And a unrelated one, SomethingAwful occasionally drops their "paywall" and you can check threads normally. Check every now or so, you might just find something interesting.

I heard something about that. Truth is I never really cared about SA because it always just reeked of hypocritical conceit to me. Even more than imageboards or other forums, if you will. But if I happen upon one of these "open periods" in tenbux I'll keep it in mind to check out discussions about 8ch…though I imagine they'll just be along the lines of smug nothings and pretending they have no idea what's going on. The actual detachment of "shut down 8ch" SJWs that comes "from" SA is very likely to be le edgy seekrit IRC group activists and to have few or no posts on SA talking about it at all…or better, posts about how uninvolved they are and how they tricked people into thinking they were involved.

Remember back when lowtax could be feasibly admired? BTFOing ebaum and pedos. But then, I guess even that was just SA's chanology. The SJW mindset is a plague.

Regarding >(1), I know, I haven't seen it anywhere since the summer (not that I've been on Mark's boards much), but I hope at least most people still have some recollection of what it was about.

Ah, one more thing. If you meant to be implying I should run an alternative vidya board…I mean, I would, but I don't think /v/ would be interested. They mostly seem to like more rules than I would give and even if they didn't object to me, they'd object to a board with just a few vols checking in now and then to clean blatant spam and things. Given all of the autism about /v/ and /vg/ and /vr/ and /tg/ and /co/ and what belongs where back on 4chan, and the way people associate generals with hotpocketry to the point they ironically want them either enforced or banned on sight still, whatever's the opposite of what their board on 4chan did…I don't know if /v/ is or will be ready for a board with relaxed moderation for 8ch standards, especially if it's not being constantly monitored to preserve quality or whatever. I'm certainly not the business-management sort.

But anyways, if that is what you're implying and you want me to, I could take over one of the dead /v/ clones or something, just don't expect me to shill it that much if I do.

>>1093

What's the record for longest streak of comments without the term "cuck" being used?

>But if I happen upon one of these "open periods" in tenbux I'll keep it in mind to check out discussions about 8ch

You'll be disappointed. Goons don't seem to check 8ch very often.

That being said, I'm not ruling out that you won't find anything. They linked to a thread where I was posting my usual images about SA, and that might have heated things up over here.

>But anyways, if that is what you're implying and you want me to, I could take over one of the dead /v/ clones or something

Nope.

>What's the record for longest streak of comments without the term "cuck" being used?

I don't keep track of that shit, but I can tell the "cuck" meme has calmed down since then.

Not that /v/ has become any better, mind you. It seems that advertising 8ch on 4chan made the worst kind of shitposters jump over and start their "contributions".

>and the way people associate generals with hotpocketry to the point they ironically want them either enforced or banned on sight still

What is this about generals, anyways? I'm interested now. I've always seen them as cancer but I've stopped looking at them ever since Mark started banning users for saging generals.

>>1095

Well, the reason we have a significant English-speaking userbase was always advertising 8ch on 4chan.

>Mark started banning users for saging generals

You fucking serious? Man, just when I thought he couldn't surprise me by being any more shit. What the fuck?

Okay, about generals. Hopefully I won't get this mixed up. So on 4chan during the shitty period leading up to the massive shittening (Starting with early 2013…well, okay, actually starting with early 2011, with roots going back to what, 2005? But you get what I'm saying.), retarded non-lurking mods were banning people for dumb shit on various boards and also making fucking stupid stickies telling people how to post. I think /co/ had some troubles with this, I don't remember if the mods banned general threads or enforced them though.

But /v/ makes a better example regarding generals. The idea is that normally people discuss related things on their board in a relaxed, "comfy" way…theoretically. "Hey look at this new trailer" alongside "what do you think about blue arms sonic" and "who would win, zelda or master chef????". Naturally, when a new game is released, someone posts a thread about its release, and everyone has a good time and posts comparisons to whatever other games, whatever. Then someone else has meantime not lurked and posted a thread about "this first level of [same game] is shit", leading to actual discussion but also autists getting mad that Bill's mom let's him have two threads on the same topic. Also, sometimes people just want to talk about a game that's not necessarily a new release. Maybe not even one specific aspect, they want to talk about that game as a whole. Or that series as a whole. Or that developer as a whole. Hence "Revolution 60 General" or whatever. I mean, obviously, this sort of thing should not be a big deal. However, some whiny anon has made a thread about some specific thing or some game that's not very popular and his threads are getting few replies while everyone's talking about their thing in the generals. Says anon, why does nobody want to shitpost with me or talk about what if Zelda were a girl? It's not that I'm not making interesting threads, you all used to love my threads. I am not getting attention and this represents an overall decline in board quality.

Unfortunately, anon actually has a point. People are segregating themselves into only talking about games they're already familiar with, or searching around for a general about games they aren't, and feeling obligated to post one if none exists. Meming, arguing about which game is best, and general discussion about the industry or the hobby has taken a backseat to in-jokes about specific games. People rarely venture outside of their two favorite generals. They start to name and tripfag purely as a social thing, which sadly is inevitably followed by unending repetition of "b-baka are you staring at my legs today!!!!!" and posting the same five reaction images and circlejerking about their waifus like they're actually on /a/, even if they've never been to /a/ and don't even like anime.

So, admins are appealed to by angry anons and generally either ban generals or enforce generals based on…arbitrary bullshit, mostly. In the case of /v/, they actually split it out into /v/ and /vg/ because it was such a big board anyways. Presumably after lots and lots of drama I missed. Now, a lot of generals were actually really good, full of modding resources and great in-depth discussion and just general fun, so /vg/ grew fast as fuck. I mean, I know that better than anyone. So now /vg/ is all and only for general and /v/ is ABSOLUTELY NO GENERALS on 4chan. Over on /sp/, they started actually forcing users to post in generals in an attempt to get more on-topic discussion and less shitposting. But /sp/ at the time was a lot like /int/, lots of shitposting and banter and everyone having a grand old time and learning along the way. Some moron or other was probably very satisfied with the janitor obsessively deleting threads and banning people for just normally posting, but everyone else hated it. Yeah, sure, /sp/ users could fail to lurk and post four threads about essentially the same thing sometimes, but it wasn't a Holocaust or anything. Everyone was having fun with next to zero moderation until moot "revamped" things with new out-of-touch or just power-hungry mods and janitors. Any time someone posted something about a team, be it serious or meming, this one faggot janitor (dunno who, didn't lurk /sp/ much at the time or really ever) kept on deleting threads, banning people, saying "take it to the general"…I guess it was less general-per-team and more general-per-sport. Then one day someone on /int/ posted a bunch of shit about someone else on /int/. Some drama between two name/tripfags? One of them being the mod or a mod of /int/. Probably over some bannings and policies and stuff, but mainly some sort of personal vendetta.

>>1096

So anyways, there was a leak in 4chan and someone posted things about someone and a bunch of other leaked stuff about mods, some of it just really prim and agenda-driven and not at all in line with 4chan…explaining the new moderation sitewide somewhat. I think this was how /sp/ found out that their janitor >did it for free. Unless I'm mixing things up, they were the ones who first flooded their own board with janitor dog. /co/ blew the fuck up over their generals bullshit (I think it was forced generals, but not sure), /tv/ was in some sort of civil war over their moderation, half for shitposting and half for nazi bans. Part of that was brought on by baneposting, which was spurred on by mods/janitors starting to clean it unnecessarily. I don't know the details; I hadn't checked in with /tv/ at all for a while when this was going on. /v/ was rioting. /b/ was rioting. Somewhere not long before or after this was the Fappening which got seriously over9000 threads for days and days and demonstrated once and for all that 4chan had fallen to plebs who actually revered celebs. /tg/ was arguing about generals too, the idea of containing 40k posting in a single general was obviously not going to happen, and so on, and there were the quest threads which like generals drew attention and posts away from more technical or conversational threads and made people mad. Also they were oftentimes very shitty and autistic and had like 100 threads for one quest. I ran a quest or two myself back in the middle before things had gotten too cancerous, it was pretty okay at the time. But by this time /tg/ was overrun with that. Now 8ch's /tg/ is still rulecuck as fuck about quest threads and flips the fuck out at the idea of even linking to boards for them (which would send questfags away from /tg/). Also the questfags on 8ch are all neurotic and whiny about /tg/ kicking them out and roam around trying to make their boards great again. I think a lot of them ended up in the tripfag roleplaying boards. One of the earlier major groups to leave 4chan from major boards was /legion/, it's like this "you are in the club" roleplaying thing they apparently had threads in /co/ about all the time and got wholesale banned.

So we have on 8ch a somewhat active /vg/, but also Mark has decided not to disallow generals it seems, and far from doing this out of a spirit of non-rulefaggotry, he's apparently just trying to keep /vg/ from "taking his users" because you say he's banning people for…saging generals. /sp/ is rabidly anti-general and had an internal row over rulefaggotry vs shitposting, which /int/ seemed to play some role in egging on, probably a lot of the same faggots who became /intl/. I remember back before all of that shit, we'd have these "board alliances" and "raids" and 90% of the people realized it was just a joke, and it was lots of fun. There was /bane/, /sp/ and…/co/, I think? I really ought to remember this, I was the one who named "Operation Pale Argent" and made the "we attack here and at this time" poster for it. Basically we went and shitposted on /argentina/, /tv/, /fem/, a few other boards. Good times. /sp/ was starting to steal gets, getball hadn't been formally introduced yet. That might have been around the time /egy/ first got introduced and got lots of posts. I remember everyone trying to navigate culture shock and be sort of courteous without giving them special treatment. All of those new users, never having seen an imageboard before. They adapted so quickly.

Anyways, /int/ has always had various general type things and I think 8ch /int/ still does. All of that utter bullshit with the stupid kraut mods that made /intl/ go irretrievably full retard kept my away from it, and then /intl/ kept me away from it, and I've only recently started lurking occasionally again. Seems to be back to the good old /int/ of its earlier days on 4chan, though, so far.

So that's generals. Just another polarizing force in the great cancering of 2014.

Kinda late reply, don't mind me.

>>1096

>You fucking serious'?

As matter of fact, I am.

>12. Dubs ARE allowed, but are limited to one dubs post and one reroll. If the post history is only dubs, the posts will be deleted regardless of how many posts the user has. Do not post in legitimate threads or Generals.

Want me to contribute my general experience of this rule?

Its shit, quite honestly. When he said "no dubs" he really meant NO DUBS. He said on his meta threads that this was only meant to stop people form saging good threads, but that's out of the window. Even if you put the reason you saged the thread in your post, you'd get banned.

That means you can't do anything about people being newfags.

Someone made a yandev thread, but there weren't any updates? Move along. Someone making a general for a game that is 15 hours long, for months, long after everything about the game was discussed? It doesn't matter. I actually got banned for saging the first one, by the way.

The rule also includes "legitimate threads", but its usage is very rare. The only times I actually get banned over this, I usually get banned very fast, which hints to the moderator being the one banning me.

Funnily enough, if you use some 2channel SJIS art instead of the 4chan images, you could get away with it because "2ch anon" was on good standing with Mark, and it showed on the meta threads.

He's not with him anymore though, so I wonder if it still works.

>>1098

>which hints to the moderator being the one banning me.

I should read a little before posting…

Which hints to the moderator being the thread starter*

Still bored so I'll ask another question to you, Poseidon.

Lately on /v/, people started labeling meta threads as cancer and calling people "metafags". This was in the middle of some meta threads, when people got mad at Mark and Josh.

This reminded me that meta threads aren't really discussed. What do you think about them?

>>1100

I meant to answer this question directly but it sort of lead into other topics despite my intentions. Rather than delete it all, I stopped at around character limit and will post the actual answer to your question in next comment.

I have myself been one of the relatively few people on /b/ specifically decrying meta threads. This was not because I thought it was terrible for /b/ to have any meta threads ever or they should be forcibly sorted or anything like that, it's just that meta-threads are constantly spammed all over /b/. It's always "8ch is dying where do we go" (since last year…), "omfg what's up with this new 8ch thing let me spam misinformation" (usually pol or leftypol pretending to be one another to false flag)

That and /n/ posts (the clickbait title + the article text or part of it + the link, and sometimes reposted straight from /n/) are a constant flow of cancer.

From us commenting in /meta/ threads saying to go to /meta/ or "look another fucking meta thread" or so on, I imagine someone picked up on it without lurking or thinking about it, you know, like with anything on an imageboard, and carried it to /v/ in some capacity. Then it becomes implanted somewhere in the /v/ collective consciousness to some small degree, and immediately people are looking for ways to use and/or manipulate it.

Now, I don't post on /v/, or any boards with IDs other than /operate/ as far as I remember. I lurk there very little even though I like games a lot, because some of them have individual boards here which aren't totally dead, and because I like playing games more than talking about playing them or the "gamer culture" or any of that. I never would have cared at all about GG if the feminazis hadn't been so far-reaching and obnoxious in their slander, and if the 4chan admins hadn't gone nuclear on the GG spam and revealed themselves to be mostly a bunch of power-hungry hipsters that had seeped in. Hell, if not for that I might still be on 4chan putting up with what censorship I encountered.

I even purchased a 4chan pass back when they were offered, even though I disliked the way the system worked and the whole thing surrounding the captcha, because I was grateful to moot for all of the good hosting and had always wanted to donate. That was a wise system of his though, not taking donations from people so they couldn't complain. Shame it ended up getting so much use as an escape clause with everything that happened. I think Hotwheels was right to take donations from people who want to donate, both to 8ch and then to Infinity Next. It was a pain, with the payment processors all just dropping him and now everyone insisting he needs to be grateful and give them a say because they anonymously claim to have donated…it's manipulated, and all, but I think it was good that he had donations. moot's policy was wise and made a lot of sense, but the vulnerability of HW's whole venture was really worthy. He became a public figure, straight up, no trying to preserve his anonymity like moot or lead a double life, even though he's trying to protect the anonymous free expression of other people. I rarely used the pass as I didn't like the idea of logging in, even when the captchas got annoying…I had just wanted to help out 4chan. Even if it was going to shit…people had been saying it was for years and years, since the beginning really. Then they took their bad habits here and immediately started preaching the demise of 8ch. That's why I want to stick to this site even when things are inconsistent and the administration and main userbases frustrate me. There's so much potential, it's fascinating. It's the potential which I felt finally dying in 4chan, long after most of the site was already just generic nonsense. There's still so much good content there, I'm always tempted to go back and sift through things, lurking, lest I miss something amazing. I know how to keep myself anonymous. But, and this is the point that anons were making in the /dir/ thread that I hated to stand in any way "opposed" to, even though I thought they were being misguided…at that point, when there's an adversarial relationship between mods and users over preservation of poster anonymity, it's all fucked up.

The difference I see here is that HW recognized the problem and made boards the "fall guy". A board goes shit, you migrate. It's just that a lot of the users aren't paying enough attention, or thinking rationally enough, or just aren't really able to understand that important difference…that the globals themselves aren't colluding to strip away anonymity (I hope…that's why I'm so disproportionately concerned about Next organizational niceties with logins and so on…and about browsers, because browser choice is a huge component of user-preserved anonymity), and that anyone can make a board and migration can begin.

>>1100

Okay, straightforward answer…so given my relative lack of familiarity with 8ch /v/'s recent board culture due to its policies, its moderators, and all of the other things that keep me away from it, I can't be sure why they'd be complaining about the meta threads.

Maybe people are spamming endless meta threads getting them to migrate or care or do something about the ggshit, and they don't care anymore or don't want to split and just want to talk about vidya in the current board environment.

Given that as the case, fair enough, but I really don't understand why they don't just go back to 4chan in that case. I mean, that's exactly what it is. If they literally just want to be able to have the same moderated space, and if they don't care about board mods spying on them enough to even move or do anything about it, then why don't they just post on 4/v/ and take their gg and anti-SJW posts to whichever 8gg board they think is least shit?

Alternate theory: Someone trying to silence an idea or objection via community marginalization, be that a Mark-loving /v/ member, /pol/, /leftypol/ (for whatever reason), /intl/, anyone in particular, whichever smaller ebin secret raid boards think they really pull the strings of the bigger raid boards, etc. I get the feeling it's actually more like all of the various conspirator groups have their hand on the dick of the one next to him than that a few masterminds are actually jerking everyone else off.

A variant of this is, of course, that Mark or one of his posse are just switching between proxies/exit nodes a bit to engineer false consensus, given that /v/ has proven arguably even more easily led along than /pol/.

>>1101

This reply is actually closer to what I wanted. You don't actually use /v/ so there's not much reason to ask you about it, I mainly included that little snip about meta threads because you seem to like seeing things burn down.

>>1103

I'd rather they didn't burn down at all, and I stay and burn my hands trying to put out fires or salvage things.

Sometimes I enjoy watching terrible threads burn, or boards with abusive vols go dead.

It really does suck the way the GGers have no board to go to that isn't run and founded by lunatics now. It's their own fault as a community for all of the choices they made about who to trust, and frankly GG isn't worth pursuing further now that the point's been made, but a userbase just getting screwed like that and slammed between the rocks really rustles my jimmies. Even if a lot of them are the ones slamming the impartials against those rocks.

>>1104

Many people are upset with how things are going on gamergate, I know.

But by the way things are going on /gamergatehq/, /ggrevolt/ and the Gamergate General on /v/, I think there's nothing that they will do. They don't want to do anything.

I'd start saging gamergate threads on /v/, but you know how it is ( >>1095 )

I forgot, and I should say:

Since there seem to be people lurking and watching this thread to some extent (I myself have not used current 8ch's thread watcher for months due to limitations and bugs), I made this board >>>/watch/ and am posting things there…just archival mostly, a lot of the things I choose to archive I don't even understand myself exactly why I think the future may want to know about them or have a record. Also due to time constraints they're more random things I happen across than me being meaningfully in touch with 8chan current events.

If you want opinions or information about something, feel free to keep asking in this thread for now, until I've set things up more on /watch/. Or maybe permanently here? I don't know yet.

Okay, new idea. I'll post archives and short summaries there, and talk about them and other stuff over here.

Regarding

>>>/watch/25

>>>/watch/26

It's well-written and more necessary than people might imagine if reading this years later…every other comment on beta or on 8ch about next is some shill or tard just vaguely saying "the software design is moar terrible Josh killed 8ch" just like they've been doing about every single thing, well-poisoning any actual issues or problems.

To some extent I'm glad he doesn't display "professionalism" as such even though he gets paid, because it is an imageboard. On the other hand, he does get paid, by donation set to cover specific landmarks and all of that, so it's somewhat discouraging when he acts unprofessionally to the point that it outright blocks off discussions, too.

Of course, everyone's busy blaming HW and him for everything, so if he doesn't they might just try to bludgeon him into making things no one actually wants and then complaining about it anonymously to stir shit. 8ch's growth has been way faster, way more sudden, way more public and controversial than 4chan's, and has had way more enemies and infighting as well. The net has changed, but it's still pretty impressive 8ch is still standing through all of the rough patches…really, we had maybe a few months of smooth sailing (relatively) after it was transferred to Jim and before scale problems caused it to start shaking itself apart software-wise.

Also people are saying the userbase will leave over beta, and Josh is saying the userbase is bleeding out over the broken software anyways (which I notice), and Next will bring in more overall traffic after a short slump (which I expect, though I do fear it will be mostly people who are new to internet…I don't care if people come from reddit or 4chan or fuck, even tumblr if they're the sort of people who want to actually have some open, fair discussions and post some cool stuff. If they want their own rulefag boards and will stick to those and not shit up other boards promoting bullshit or stirring shit up, that's fine too. Hell, shit-stirring and board politics and rivalries used to be lots of fun and promoted a bunch of discussion, until everyone started seriously trying to subvert each other's boards, views, "territory", and presence on 8ch.

After all of the bullshit and sperging out we all did, Lowcard is right about /b/. Yeah, it's being spammed to hell and back by every autist right now, causing threads to randomly 404. Yes the baph faggots and horsefuckers and pedos and various autists are all trying to "take over".

But in the midst of all of this it's better, livelier, more interesting discussion and content than it has been…ever since HW handed it off, really.

/b/ is supposed to be full of shit any given person doesn't like. The catalog spam is real and…who cares? We're adults, we can make new threads. Next will likely have some good options to cull catalog spam built in anyways.

No mods, NO RUELS, it's a good thing.

>>1106

>If you want opinions or information about something, feel free to keep asking in this thread for now

Well then.

Where did this hate for "rulefags" come form? is it something form 8/b/? This tidbit of culture seems pretty isolated, you know.

>>1109

It came from moot suddenly and arbitrarily deciding to nuke relatively harmless things on 4chan site-wide after years of being less of a faggot so he could gain some cred. From boards being uprooted and shaken down by morons who hadn't even lurked enough to be a janitor let alone an admin, but were sure they knew what that board was "supposed to be about". From /b/, the one board that had always been left the fuck alone for the most part (various CSS and embeds aside, which were generally clever and interesting) suddenly shifting towards a tone-controlled space, and it being completely obvious that the new overlords didn't know what the fuck they were doing or how to lurk.

It was a reaction to that which is the main reason most of the people on 8chan (during and before the first few migrations, anyways) left 4chan in the first place. The spirit of "leave us the fuck alone and let us post if we're not breaking the law", and that starts with /b/.

>>1109

Oh, and a general reaction to the internet itself being given more and more rules, constant tracking that you have to fight against with everything you have, all popular websites tracking your activity, social media and search engines feeding people what the algorithms thing they like…or worse, what's paid the devs enough for subtle advertisement space.

You're seeing on 8ch a small piece of a larger cultural rejection of "the agenda", of the idea that you must be silent rather than say anything anyone could consider objectionable. It's the same sort of thing that bolstered SA and 4chan before they succumbed to it to varying degrees, and it's the same reason 2ch became so massive, such a reactionary and (to the Japanese) extreme and rude reaction to popular culture.

So you're on 4-ch huh

>>1112

wew that was fast

Yes, I posted once before with tripcode in the thread asking why there was so much activity on DQN, suggesting some may have come from here when the 4chan history got posted on /4get/.

Surprisingly, the peeing-themed posts which started in the CYOA threads around the same time are almost entirely not me. Undinism confirmed for Authentic Oldfag™ fetish?

>Undinism confirmed for Authentic Oldfag™ fetish?

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