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7a5dcf No.13518774

>Warcraft 2 was released in 1995

>it still has an active competitive community

How many other games can claim something like that?

974c41 No.13518782

Doom


bcd48b No.13518785

Street Fighter 2


974c41 No.13518787

Tetris


756241 No.13518796

the game


c2b126 No.13518799

>>13518796

Fuck you I lost


f5bf54 No.13518929


b14cd5 No.13519253


8e3e92 No.13519263

>>13518774

>that comfy orc fortress

>these peons in yellow onesies

>pig farms

>naked orcs

WC2 was top tier, except for some balance issues like bloodlust vs paladin heals with no autocast.


dad305 No.13519489

Warcraft 3

Starcraft

Blizzard was never particularly original, but they knew how to make a new spin on old concepts and their games were fun.

But that's a past that we're not getting back.

Fuck modern Jewzzard.

>>13519263

I never finished it, but I do remember the missions being very long, mostly due to the necessity of ships for every battle.

It's a shame they did not implement them in WC3, but maybe that's a good thing. If they couldn't figure out how to make a naval system work properly, better to not have it at all.


33e40e No.13519962

Smash & TF2


f45c4a No.13520075

>>13519489

Diablo was pretty original


a281bc No.13520079

>>13518796

haa…..


8a70ac No.13520094

>artificial unit limits

It's shit. Don't kid yourself.


f45c4a No.13520102

>>13520094

you forgot your sage :^)

shit reason to dislike a game tbh


dad305 No.13520104


a7467a No.13520119

File: a1ff10bd2abc7ae⋯.png (6.21 KB, 320x240, 4:3, 537945-rogue_006.png)

>>13520075

>Diablo was pretty original

Totally wrong, but Diablo was still fucking great


8ba464 No.13520126

>>13520119

Diablo was designed as a graphical roguelike and many people disagree with this


8a70ac No.13520143

>>13520104

Because it's a fucking crutch that slows down the game for really no reason. An army should be as large as the economy that supports it, not by a retarded arbitrary structure count


a7467a No.13520148

>>13520126

>Diablo was designed as a graphical roguelike and many people disagree with this

How the fuck could anyone disagree that Diablo is a graphical roguelike? That's like denying Warcraft is an RTS.


13da9e No.13520151

>>13519263

I'm still a bit leery about an RTS that allows you to win with such abysmal map control. I mean, in the video he's basically walling himself in a ceding the rest of the map to Yellow and 1basing it to his end game unit composition (ogre spam). That's not good RTS design.


8ba464 No.13520154

>>13520143

The structures support the maximum unit count. It's almost as if its an abstraction of the supply chain

What are hitpoints?


a7467a No.13520163

File: ba60c293807ead9⋯.jpg (27.68 KB, 347x296, 347:296, S_Intel-A80502-90.jpg)

>>13520143

>An army should be as large as the economy that supports it

I think I found a flaw with that logic, Anon


bb4cac No.13520178

>>13518774

Warcraft 2 was awesome. I had no clue why they fucked up the formula and lore in WC3. Probably new diversity hires or some shit.


5c0275 No.13520187

>>13520154

Then actually put in supply chain mechanics. It's a shit abstraction, if they're trying to emulate that do it right. It's not like the Army can't produce fucking riflemen if a fuel dump gets blown up.

>>13520163

>muh grafix

Unless it's a total war game, you're not going to have that much time to build up enough units to cause lag. Even then the whole point is lower graphical fidelity so people CAN have large armies


dad305 No.13520189

>>13520151

To be fair, it's tournament meta.

How often is that fun to play when the whole point of it is to win?

>>13520143

Fair enough.

But then those units would have to have a per minute upkeep cost or something.

Food/supply limit is just the simplest way to emulate this.


558174 No.13520217

>>13520189

I guess an Upkeep cost is fine, but even then to me it's just complications for the sake of it.


dad305 No.13520266

>>13520217

What do you actually want then?

You say the food system is shit. Fine. Maybe it is.

Do you want players to autistically micromanage their upkeep costs in fast/medium paced games?

In the end, someone is just going to calculate how much you're earning with 1/2/3 resource nodes and figure out how many units you're allowed to pump out while still having a steady income. Meaning you will not have changed much.

To add, it would only encourage gook-tier microing because the person who has fewer units will earn more resources and get upgrades/tech/best units much earlier and stomp the opposition.


a7467a No.13520271

File: 3fd7acd095477bf⋯.jpg (13.11 KB, 480x360, 4:3, hqdefault.jpg)

>>13520187

>Wow guys why did they have unit caps on a game that was designed to run on a Pentium 90 with 16 MB of RAM

>Surely such a beast could have supported an infinity of units

Get a load of this human


dad305 No.13520300

>>13520271

It's funny because I updated the game and it runs like ass now.

I now sure as hell have more than 128mb of RAM which is what I had when I first played it.


8e3e92 No.13520330

>Warcraft 2 taught me to be racist and hate orcs

>Warcraft 3 taught me the beauty of rainbows and diversity and orcs fucking humans in the butt

>Warcraft 4 will teach me the value of having a million pronouns to describe someone who is generally a cisnormative heteromorphic gynophilic androgonadic individual


110a25 No.13520360

Warcraft 3 is probably my favourite game of all time and I still play it online. Good to hear that even Warcraft 2 still has players because it means Warcraft 3 will remain active for many years to come.


dbea1e No.13520416

>>13520266

in the end RTS games have only two outcomes. Gookclick actions per minute trumping any sort of strategy or Tank blob zergfests of who has the most units and no strategy.


13a10f No.13520417

>>13518774

>How many other games can claim something like that?

I don't really get what the appeal to competitive WC2 is. It always just comes down to bloodlusted ogres unless one player is so much better than the other he can play humans.

>>13520360

I really want to get into WC3 but I hear the hacker problem is absurd. I remember watching a few competitive players to just get a jist of how the games played. If it was ever the dude vs some rando that isn't big in the community it was almost always a hacker.


dad305 No.13520501

File: 29e7ebb0b74371f⋯.jpg (38.47 KB, 713x681, 713:681, Illya3.jpg)

>>13520416

Not necessarily.

Being able to react faster is always going to be relevant, but you could always figure out ways how to slow things down to make it so APM has less of an effect.

The blobbing is easily countered by having a varied and destructible environment. Six gorillion tanks aren't going to fit into a choke point.

The real issue lies with lack of interest and innovation.

I think Company of Heroes may have been one of the last games to genuinely try something slightly different.

>>13520417

I've never seen any hackers myself, but that's probably because I'm at the bottom of the skill level.

There is a meta, but it's not overbearing like in "competitive esports," so it's easy to get into.

>>13520360

What race, mang?

I'm playing Humans, but I keep getting my ass handed to me so often I'm thinking about switching.


f45c4a No.13520555

>>13520416

>gookclick APM means strategy is negated

I hate this fucking meme; do people not realize that there is an absurd amount of strategy and depth to Starcraft? Go watch any day9 brood war analysis video to realize this. Every single fucking map unit grid piece is loaded with fucking importance, its not just koreans spamming keys. Go watch any day9 brood war analysis video to realize this


dad305 No.13520566

>>13520555

We're not talking about tournaments, but regular play.

A player with higher APM is going to beat one with lower. No contest.

However, when APM is about the same, which is the case in tournaments, strategy wins the day.


45b3c9 No.13520572

>>13518796

Which game??


13a10f No.13520606

>>13520501

>I've never seen any hackers myself, but that's probably because I'm at the bottom of the skill level.

It's hard to tell if someones map hacking though. In the streams I watched usually the guy playing would be like "There's no way this would be the first camp he would check at this minute" and then a few other things pile up until he's like "Ok yeah, he's got map hacks". They also play on some special server where the chat says something when someone clicks on a unit they have no vision off, which happens on occasion.


110a25 No.13520612

File: 077c41ca9b8b157⋯.jpg (7.31 KB, 171x171, 1:1, inhuman.jpg)

>>13520417

Maphacking is pretty much a non-issue imo. I guess the 1.28 patch got rid of some but even if not I haven't really noticed any obvious hackers. Even if you believe it's a horrible problem you can download some detection tools to see if someone is maphacking and even go and play on w3arena instead of on Blizzard's battle.net. That's where all the European pros play anyway while the Chinese and Koreans play on netease.

I'm quite bad player myself and even I get callled a maphacker sometimes by paranoid noobs. Often the people who whine about it are fucking idiots who think every lucky creepjack is a proof of the opponent having a maphack. You can always watch the reply afterwards and judge yourself whether the enemy was using MH or not.

>>13520501

We humans must stick together! I pretty much always beat the orcs but always get rekt by the undead if they play meta instead of trying some cheesy necro strat. I play as human because my strategy is to lose every battle but win the war in the end because the enemy runs out of money. Humans have the best scouting and turtling up potential so all you have to do is to ensure the enemy can't expand while you hide behind your towers and flee or kite the enemy whenever you encounter them. If you get desperate you can always use sorceresses to make ~4 mortars invisible, send them to the enemy expansion/base and wait for the enemy to attack your main army/base and once battle begin just destroy the expansion or main with the mortars while the enemy is too busy microing their army. Most regular players are horrible at macro and often forget to buy TP etc and you should exploit those weaknesses.

If such pussy strategies aren't your thing you should probably play some more aggressive race. Undead if you hate expanding and love to stay on low upkeep and night elf if you want all-around good race. Orc if you want to be dependent on strong blade master. For anything else orcs are shit.


974c41 No.13520632

>>13520148

A roguelike needs to be indefinite turn based, or else everything goes into slippery slope territory.


dad305 No.13520677

>>13520612

I like the Human aesthetics, so I just can't bring myself to drop them.

I used to play casually with my cousin as a NE a lot, so I guess I could go back to them.

My biggest issue is which heroes to use as a HU.

I seem to either blow the other side away effortlessly or have the same happen to me.

I've had very few matches that I could say were close.

That advice seems pretty sound though.


5ee932 No.13520690

I'm playing the Frozen Throne campaign and Illidan is kicking my ass with those pillars, how do I git gud?


000000 No.13520747

>>13520690

>easiest mission in frozen throne

literally just play it

make some units and press A and left click


dad305 No.13520764

>>13520747

Isn't it actually pretty difficult on hard?

>>13520690

Try building towers and luring him into their range.


f45c4a No.13520776

>>13520747

>Torpedos at it again

fucking christ


110a25 No.13520779

>>13520677

Mountain King first against Orcs is nice because you can bolt that annoying blade master. Archmage is the weakest hero in the game so in the early game blademaster with boots can just kill it way too easily. MK + bloodmage second is a nice way to counter a BM because you can feed mana to your MK and bully the BM with banish.

Against night elf, don't bother with Mountain King if they go Demon Hunter first. DH will just constantly manaburn your poor dwarf and turn him into a glorified footman. Many people go Arch Mage first, Naga second against nelfs. Frozen arrow gives you some control over the DH harass.

Against human I'll usually go Archmage+MK. You can also get Pala 3rd if you can handle the micro. Against random I go Archmage first too usually because it's usually the safest bet.

Against undead it doesn't matter which hero you make because they'll just coilnova them before you can react anyway and you lose the game so better just give up. Fuck the undead.

Oh and if you find yourself in a situation in which you want a second hero but have a feeling that you don't have the time to creep and level him up (like if you're food stuck and can't get it fast enough), you can always get a Tinker. lvl 1 tinker is surprisingly useful if you just drop the pocket factory before a fight. Tinker is always nice as a 3rd hero too if you really have an urge to get a 3rd hero. This goes for any race.


dad305 No.13520814

>>13520779

All right, thanks for the help.

I'll keep all of that in mind.

>Fuck the undead

It's funny because I used to watch some Korean streamer who'd annihilate nearly every UD player he came across with his pala.

He'd keep harassing with holy light and staff of tele, or even go after the DK.

I don't think it was easy, but it looked really good.

Gargoyle rush is very annoying, though.


5ee932 No.13520850

>>13520764

This mission is one where the AI actually plays like a multiplayer map. Unfortunately the time the mission gives you to build a base is too fucking short, by the time a gold mine is setup you're already attacked at least twice and that liitle bitch Kael hasn't even sent a serious wave yet. I've read I should forgo waiting for the goldmine and immediately use those blight items to setup a graveyard and ziggurats. I'll try that and see how it goes.


7cc98e No.13520865

File: c26d8a6cbf9973d⋯.jpg (34.55 KB, 226x218, 113:109, satan.jpg)

>>13520572

>he doesn't know


110a25 No.13520880

>>13520814

I think the reason why I have so much trouble with the undead is because I suck at micro and the undead is all about focus and and killing your units one by one. Against other races I'm just quick enough to save some units by sending them back to my base once their HP drops low but against the undead with their unholy aura and spells, it's just too much for me.


dad305 No.13520885

>>13520850

The blight items are great because they let you make the ziggurats close to the obelisks, so definitely do that.


dad305 No.13521062

File: 50505afd610fc29⋯.jpg (127.59 KB, 680x846, 340:423, 1403810230268.jpg)

>>13520880

>I suck at micro

>tfw

I should practice someday.


110a25 No.13521105

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

>>13521062

Some guy made a video tutorial about the basic game mechanics. I watched it out of curiosity and got embarrassed for all the stuff I wasn't aware of even though I've been playing this game for over a decade lol.


d6bcb7 No.13521645

King of Fighters 98


ef981f No.13521690

>>13520416

You've never watched SupCom have you anon? I recommend watching one of Gyle's 4v4+ videos, the hour long ones tend to be a bit of a ride.


0682b5 No.13521722

>>13521062

>>13521105

Where do you guys still play this? Battlenet, Gameranger or some other place? And how painful will it be for a complete amateur to start playing it now?


8ef7ee No.13521806

>>13520566

Nigga you need both if you want to climb to any serious level to begin with

My little brother was writing down notes and strategies when he was playing StarCraft 2 in its early days and he climbed up to diamond when it meant something, and master later on. (Though now it doesn't mean shit; Nu-blizz raped the game after WoL)

Brood War even more so the case. If you have superior strategy but *slightly* inferior APM you can still beat a player who is more mechanically skilled than you

Where APM hurts you most is macro-play

You need to have the basic ability to macro well or you won't progress. Having amazing strategies won't do shit if you don't have the ability to position your units in time or prepare for the timing pushes and so forth. If there's a significant APM difference to begin with then you shouldn't have been matched with the person to begin with. StarCraft requires both sound mind and sound fingers.


8d8daf No.13521890


f77990 No.13521961

>>13518774

Bomberman


45b3c9 No.13522956

>>13520865

Oh it's a zelda game?


2da595 No.13523006

>>13521806

>Where APM hurts you most is macro-play

In more demanding games I agree, but there was that guy in SC2 WoL who was diamond/master level with ~80 APM who won only with extreme macro strategies. He would draw every game out to an hour plus by spamming spellcaster units so he had overwhelming resource efficiency.


b0ff7d No.13523316

>>13521890

Whatever happened to plasma pong?


ce294d No.13523380

>>13520416

Bullshit. Play Supreme Commander, or any game in its lineage. Total Annihilation came out twenty years ago - it's older than Starcraft.


ce294d No.13523387

>>13523316

C&D'd; sorta dropped off the face of the internet as either it stopped being a flavour of the month or as reporters with no sense of anything but the flavour of the month stopped appreciating it.


34be8a No.13523434

File: 4a715d2d46e8c22⋯.jpg (80.95 KB, 324x600, 27:50, c39fbc19b8743079e61a01e94f….jpg)

>>13518774

>MFW there will never be a gritty 90s fantasy art style like WC2 and Diablo again


1c5218 No.13523437

>>13521105

I'll check it out, thanks.

>>13521722

I always use bnet.

There is also w3arena, but that's where all top players are.

If you've finished the game, you'll have a basic grasp on things.

My suggestion would be to play it on hard, since it actually does a good job of preparing you for online. Some of the missions can be very demanding and really force you to git gud.

You might also want to watch some replays first, just to get an idea of what the basic meta is like, but beyond that it really comes down to your own skill.

Overall, it's not that hard to get into, but you better have some persistence with you.


308e7a No.13526160

>>13520075

That's why modern Blizzard made sure to fire all those people and shut their studio (Blizzard North) down.


f53295 No.13526179

>>13523006

That's actually hilarious if its true, but also confusing

>80 APM

>but had the ability to manage spellcaster units

Unless you're saying almost all of his army was spellcaster units, in which case I'd just doubt his ability to win, period

Post links to some videos, this honestly sounds entertaining af


492460 No.13527083

>playing W3 custom maps a lot while they're still somewhat alive

>muh nostalgia

>but randomly disconnect every few games

It seems to be a universal problem. was W3 connection always this shit, or did they cripple it recently?


672164 No.13527425

>>13527083

Battle.net was pretty solid when Warcraft 3 came out but it was pretty slow sometimes waiting for a game, but now it's peer to peer stuff.


492460 No.13527535

>>13527425

Literally just alt+F4ed from another DCed game, and I'd DCed from another when I wrote that post.

W3 custom maps are still fucking great but this is hitting unplayable levels.


94ea98 No.13529005

>>13527083

>>13527535

First time I've heard about this.

It might be something with your connection, or the new update could have fucked it up. I haven't played much since it came out.


75ce21 No.13529270

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

Goldeneye still has a pretty active community

https://rankings.the-elite.net/


6fdf26 No.13529284

>>13518796

Motherfugger


1d6bad No.13529285

>>13527083

I had this problem, I reinstalled war3 from jizzard's new digital installer and it was mostly solved


6635f9 No.13530313

>>13518796

Pretty sure that is younger than 2000


58832d No.13530422

>>13520555

>>13520416

>>13520566

APM IS strategy.

APM being just hand speed is the real meme that needs to die. Virtually every healthy human being between the ages of 12 and 50 has the hand coordination to be a decent 120+ APM player. There is no magical gook gene that makes them faster at typing or mouse movements. What actually determines APM is game knowledge, planning and strategy. Good players have high APM because they have steps planned out in advance so that they can always being doing something while thinking about the next move. They'll plan their bases so that macro is quicker, they'll hotkey their units and buildings to make micro quicker, they'll understand what their opponents might be doing so they can respond immediately to whatever they see. Bad players waste their potential APM grappling with the UI unable to macro and just sitting around waiting for stuff to happen because they don't have their actions planned out beyond waiting for a bigger army.


e49e8a No.13531255

File: 804d697669d4f45⋯.png (956.4 KB, 1440x1080, 4:3, 804d697669d4f45c8d40d630f5….png)

>>13518796

I swear to god


6f92d5 No.13531445

>>13520143

literally every game has unit limits


6635f9 No.13531493

>>13520094

>>13520143

Warcraft 3 has mods that break unit limits. Guess what happens.

The game stutters into oblivion and becomes almost unplayable. Units start walking on 2-3 second stops.

The engine just cannot handle numbers too big.


a97f15 No.13531526

Every C&C game, RTS just players are just gigantic autists that play games 20 years after a release


3ea06d No.13531559

It's questionable whether the success of Warcraft 2 to this day is due to a dedicated fanbase or simply turbo autism.


63a212 No.13531563

>>13531559

I'd say the two are closely related.


6635f9 No.13531566

File: 6ff1aac5508ef11⋯.jpg (15.07 KB, 480x360, 4:3, hqdefault.jpg)

>>13531526

I am afraid we have a heck of a situation down here.


3ea06d No.13531575

File: ef299a7eff65bdf⋯.jpg (6.81 KB, 261x174, 3:2, waitasec.jpg)

>>13531563

Fair enough.


6635f9 No.13531592

>>13531559

There wasn't really much competition for a fantasy themed rts back in those days.

Especially one with some polish.


d228e1 No.13531640

File: 20a41ca11975c41⋯.png (8.6 KB, 528x404, 132:101, Spurdo.png)

>>13531559

>a dedicated fanbase or simply turbo autism.

Is there a difference?


b5db79 No.13531668

File: e5093a1a5c94fff⋯.jpg (44.78 KB, 407x407, 1:1, 1441150332147.jpg)


63a212 No.13531679

>>13531640

A dedicated fanbase may make good things, like mods.

See: Medieval 2 Total War. There are some mods that are still in development and are yet to be released.

Turbo autism is mostly useless.

This is where you get speedrunning and analysis of every corner of a game. It can be really entertaining if you're into that sort of thing, though.

See: Mario and Sonic games.


de0e87 No.13531702


216d31 No.13531940

>>13531702

Reddit wasn't even a fucking thing when the game was a meme


ff9217 No.13533921

>>13531702

What game is he referring to?


e7a6be No.13533931

I think that i'm the only person that still plays Empire Earth




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