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/v/ - Video Games

Vidya Gaems
Winner of the 67rd Attention-Hungry Games
/ara/ - Mothercon

January 2019 - 8chan Transparency Report
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[ /agdg/ | Vidya Porn | Hentai Games | Retro Vidya | Contact ]

File: ffcb7e1a96b46c0⋯.jpg (167.71 KB, 722x941, 722:941, gayvsnotgay.jpg)

0ae6e5 No.15138630

Why normalfags seem to be unable to appreciate the bottom pic design.

Will this place UI everywhere meme go away ? I know its much easier to make a game that way but holy shit, its so cheap and uninteresting.

e5015a No.15138633

>Will this place UI everywhere meme go away ?

No because normalniglets, stop playing AAA shit

e09bc4 No.15138641

File: 91e20f13a483977⋯.png (99.28 KB, 411x417, 137:139, 18bcf1dd8a5c5b3234e49ebd53….png)


Personally the older I get, the more I like the top one because I'm too old and jaded to care enough about a game to put that kind of effort into it. I have to really be into the concept and world of the game to be willing to actually try considering I spend all day putting effort into real life shit. I just don't feel like having to put more "work" into anything after already had spent all day working.

595a9c No.15138644


I was playing OGSE (I recommend) and there are a lot of missions like that. Turns out 8 times of 10 it's boring to search for an object in a general area to the point you might never complete the quest or need a guide.

I think it's fine for landmarks tho.

1b6524 No.15138647

Casuals are bad for videogames yes

but never forget the root of the issue here is the jew steering it towards that direction

e5015a No.15138652


>Turns out 8 times of 10 it's boring to search for an object in a general area to the point you might never complete the quest or need a guide.

Not if that areas is interesting, post signs and small details also help.

af7505 No.15138656

File: 2d499f61dad372e⋯.jpg (78.32 KB, 800x600, 4:3, 2d499f61dad372e8ea99cb47d9….jpg)


>I don't have any time to enjoy games anymore

>I do have time to play virtual google map directions though


e09bc4 No.15138660


It's not really time, as I said, it's the effort required. I like to relax while I play vidya. But don't get me wrong: I don't want all games to be dumbed down. I understand that some people like to put in that kind of effort, and more power to you, I'm just showing that from my perspective, I like stuff more along the lines of Animal Crossing where I can chill the fuck out.

595a9c No.15138669


An area is interesting for x amount of time. If you need to to play a glorified game of "Where's Waldo" on a small area for an hour it loses a lot, believe me.

2f2b51 No.15138673

File: fe030f0b4c0cc78⋯.jpg (6.58 KB, 251x247, 251:247, 1180114415646.jpg)

Morrowind GOTY got it right with the journal shit, so you could always go back and reference it without having to manually remember it, or look up a guide.

Skyrim-tier questmarkers are absolute garbage and destroy any semblance of immersion. Even worse if you can turn them off, but this makes it impossible to find anything because the developers expect players to rely on them anyway.

0ae6e5 No.15138680


>Turns out 8 times of 10 it's boring to search for an object in a general area to the point you might never complete the quest or need a guide.

But that is a design problem. Of course that you need to put some work into making the search for the thing interesting. That is probably the main reason why so few devs want to go that way. They will instead just add the item in their game world, and have the quest system automatically place waypoints and everything. Shame.

7ef4dc No.15138681

File: ae5bd564cd55f17⋯.png (126.66 KB, 467x181, 467:181, ClipboardImage.png)


Didn't The Secret World do this?

8be01d No.15138683

Good luck ever getting developers to not fuck up on purpose so they have an excuse to do less work.

595a9c No.15138687


That's more of an ARG.

4ec2a9 No.15138688


>t. 28 years old

d069c5 No.15138697


Then play shit games instead. The problem right now is that every game does that shit.

c463a5 No.15138707

The problem is that with developers claiming "you can do everything", you cannot be sure if the way you are trying to do a task/travel to a place is the right way or you are just losing your time.

2f2b51 No.15138708

File: ed6ff267bf8cf74⋯.jpg (258.5 KB, 1920x1080, 16:9, 8dbd1d96df4be0c35bdf024a07….jpg)

File: 2507f29e2865baa⋯.jpg (464.74 KB, 1280x960, 4:3, 1224816782807.jpg)

File: a9b8cb1d5028a8e⋯.jpg (213.83 KB, 1200x911, 1200:911, 1361972200051.jpg)


>Turns out 8 times of 10 it's boring to search for an object in a general area

If designed poorly, yes.

See, the issue with having questmarkers isn't just that it ruins immersion. It also is an incredibly lazy tool for developers to skip good level design in open world areas altogether. They can copy+paste areas ad nauseum, and nobody will bat an eyelash because they don't need to fucking care. They no longer need to make areas unique and fun to explore based on their merit of good design - they simply need to make them not all literally the exact same carbon copy. They can just select from a pool of things, maybe with slightly different paint jobs, to do the minimal amount of work necessary so people don't stop and say "hey wait, this all looks the fucking same" at a glance. Because nobody needs to look at their environment past a simple glance.

Incidentally, this devalues environmental design TREMENDOUSLY. As somebody who fucking loves to explore their environment in vidya, I'm extremely disappointed that the amount of work that gets put into environmental design seems to be less and less appreciated. Some games, despite not needing it, have some seriously talented artists - but they're all relegated to just making glorified pretty corridors and plains.


"Quest markers" are cancer, and are a poor substitute for good level design - to the point that you really can't have good design because of it.

db8938 No.15138715


Quit playing games then faggot.

e421be No.15138720



>normalfag gets distraced by a message on [social media/phone/their twitch chat since they are a streamer] while the bottom conversation plays

>runs around randomly looking for the stash

>gets frustrated

>googles: Shitcunts 2 thief stash location bitch forest

>"Woooow how was i supposed to know it was there, fix your game kojima"

79c239 No.15138734


>you can do everything

<fail to implement a basic physics engine like 15 year-old games have

>o-okay, we meant that in the moral sense

<can't kill women or trannies

>u-uh, we mean it's 2018! Buck Frumpf!

c71e01 No.15138747


I would use landmarks/dirctions for general stuff, and pop up a marker when you are close to the target, to prevent the annoying bit

0ae6e5 No.15138754


Good point.

Could that be resolved by having a window popup at the start of the game that says "DO YOU LIKE LE MEMES ? xDD" that would turn waypoints on for the rest of the game ?

0ae6e5 No.15138761


*it would turn on the waypoints only if the player clicked "yes" on the popup.

024864 No.15138767

The best open world design:

>No fast travel, can take transportation but it goes fast instead of teleporting you. Adds to immersion and transportation routes add to world design. Actual teleportation should be used sparingly.

>No quest markers, only given instructions and reading signs, asking around, etc.

>No map that shows you in it, only realistic area maps you can acquire.

>updated my journal

e5015a No.15138768


If these small details I mentioned are there, that won't be an issue.

S.T.A.L.K.E.R maps weren't meant for shit like that.

6ba44c No.15138773


The frustration is a feature, not a bug.

>be morrowind

>bitch wants you to get her ring

>dig around in pool

>can't see shit in water

>takes fucking forever to find

>finally manage to pick up ring

>get mocked and shot at by invisible people

That scenario is impossible if there's a little arrow pointing at the damn thing.

2c1bfc No.15138774


The top is more work for developers. The bottom is more work for designers and writers. And neither one much matters to an industry that overworks and abuses its employees. It's simply that the top sells better to more people.

e5015a No.15138777


>The top is more work for developers


It's bitch basic design, work and effort

3f886c No.15138780

File: 9fae542fb4b22a5⋯.png (517.23 KB, 913x679, 913:679, zxc zxczczxc.png)


what the fuck are you talking about?

that ring was piss easy to find

>get mocked and shot at by invisible people

that's what you get for trusting strangers in the wild

2c1bfc No.15138785


Developers don't usually design the game they're programming, especially on AAA productions. That's a different job.

5161cb No.15138796

I recently beat dad of war (friend let me borrow it) and I think the problem is that everything worth searching for in these new games is all generic. None of it is memorable to get or search for. Chest 32 in zone 5 is the same as Chest 502 in zone 29.

I grew up with Banjo Kazooie and thinking back to it, most every piece you get is memorable in some way. Everything you get now is just a number to fill a quest log and has no value other than that.

0ae6e5 No.15138797


I just came

e5015a No.15138798

File: a84765b9b5f40e5⋯.jpg (16.12 KB, 201x159, 67:53, Super Sayan Blue.JPG)


>Game Deigners aren't developers

>Only programmers are developers

595a9c No.15138800


It's not an entire map. For example, there's one mission where you need to find Sidorovich guitar in the rookie camp. Or when you need to find the artifact to enter the rookie camp. Small areas but the thing you need to fiend are small and well hidden,

e5015a No.15138808


>Small areas but the thing you need to fiend are small and well hidden

That's the point, that's shit treasure hunting design.

Make the NPCs give you clues to it's whereabouts and such.

4f654e No.15138813

>Have no waypoints or markers

>can ask npcs for directions, which turns on waypoints

>they sometimes lead you into ambushes instead of your destination, depending on the npcp

024864 No.15138819

File: ccc7260006642a9⋯.jpg (15.62 KB, 639x441, 71:49, ..jpg)



e5015a No.15138823


Why have waypoints at all?

Just check the fucking map nigger

595a9c No.15138824


But it fails from time to time. 3 hours to find 5 fucking books and escape an anomaly.

a78456 No.15138828


its your problem you're a bitter fag who cannot appreciate anything

e5015a No.15138838


>But it fails from time to time

Not with good design you niglet

Check the quest log and map, they're that for that fucking reason, why need even more handholding?

7052bb No.15138845


If you are too old to play a game properly might as well stop playing games and pic up some adult hobbies like fishing or raising other mens son.

19d586 No.15138846


Life comes atcha fast

t. 29 years old

463055 No.15138849



I'd much rather just have maps and high quality signage. At most, they could do a highlighting thing like Mirror's Edge or LA Noire, as in things are highlighted.

7ef4dc No.15138854


How about you do what S.T.A.L.K.E.R. did where you have your PDA point out the destination, but it's on a separate screen?

595a9c No.15138861


Map is worthless for searching, it only tells the general area and there's actually a bug that prevents you from knowing where you are because the icon that shows your position is displaced. The log is useful but sometimes the clues are pretty nebulous, if there are clues which sometimes you need to go blind.

0b4080 No.15138864

File: c2ba2e024817c3b⋯.webm (3.65 MB, 1280x720, 16:9, Never_Develop_with_Casual….webm)

09d334 No.15138873

File: a622e58015b509a⋯.gif (931.08 KB, 297x300, 99:100, 1515743099313.gif)

Does anyone remember that games from the 90s didn't even have minimaps. Just plain static maps, some didn't even have way points or quest markers on them? I found this very inciting for the fact that the world didn't feel like it was made for me. I think a modern game that does away with any kind of map faggotry, it would be the most avant garde shit.

5e5c1d No.15138876

File: 60820eaa9e469aa⋯.gif (1.98 MB, 379x216, 379:216, 165236.gif)


The problem with people like you is that even though you're vocal about your dislike for video games, you still expect people to cater to you.

I'm not kidding when I say you deserve your teeth kicked in. "abloo bloo I just don't have the time anymore, muh work". Stop playing video games then and fuck off to do something else. There's already a myriad of AAA schlock for you to play that won't challenge you.

The only people worse than you are the buffoons who actually listen to your retarded moaning.

1158ca No.15138877


>I'm 28 years old*

a132a1 No.15138891


As a player, I'd rather have bottom if the developers know how to do it.

Bottom is quite difficult to implement in a way that isn't complete shit. You need to know the terrain you're working with, you have to put clues to lead the player where you need him to go, you need to make the goal remarkable enough to be distinguished from the environment and most importantly, you need to frame it in a way that the player actually gives a shit about completing the objective.

404ee3 No.15138899


Neets need a good lead injection to the back of the head

c9caa9 No.15138902

>objective: find X

>no waypoint

>no hints

>no fast travel

>game world is Y by Z kilometers large

Maybe the reason your genius contrarian ideas aren't used is because noone wants to spend a real life week walking around forests and villages looking for some random thing for the grand reward of a bit of currency and maybe some experience

595a9c No.15138903


A neet will be always a better person than a wage slave.

5e5c1d No.15138910


>anyone who wants more than a dumbed down garbage fire must be NEET

>the cries of a wagecuck

Autists like you get the rope first.

e5c403 No.15138915

File: 5c76f72dbb1bd74⋯.jpg (86.35 KB, 499x360, 499:360, for_a_good_time_call_by_za….jpg)

just use cardinal coordinates

fb0a89 No.15138927


Another ebin meymey like that ?

0ae6e5 No.15138928



3ecd99 No.15138933


Careful, old man. You're speaking to an entire board of NEETs.

44bba5 No.15138936

File: 8c9c9cedd72e602⋯.jpg (47.1 KB, 610x347, 610:347, d42021a832f41b8f69b7b92a59….jpg)

File: 0cee937894d28d7⋯.jpg (65.19 KB, 1280x720, 16:9, maxresdefault.jpg)

File: 83daa2b5fbc2b44⋯.jpg (36.22 KB, 640x480, 4:3, morrowind9.jpg)


>not making the act of asking directions a mechanic

>not making the world rich enough so you can lose yourself in it and still be a pleasurable experience

>not making objectives generic enough so players can find alternative ways to achieve 'em

>making a giant ass world for no reason

Fuck off fam

4d3f6f No.15138957


>anything less than having the game spoonfeed you is a needle-in-a-haystack

>completely ignored the hints in the OP

How's life with ADHD treating you?

fb0a89 No.15138973


It's the GTA effect: Empty open world.

a47a2d No.15139011


>letting the world defeat you so badly that it turns you into a casual

032450 No.15139015

If you want GPS in a fantasy setting make it a spell.

89f1d4 No.15139018

File: f736d24254d17df⋯.jpg (1004.33 KB, 1600x1000, 8:5, 1450441659940.jpg)


Because casuals are cancer.

While I know it'll never happen by the nature of the internet and the genre, I dream of an MMORPG where I'm able to just explore and adventure without fifty tutorials and nine iterations of "Go to X(marked on your map), Kill/Collect Y, Return to Z for reward" cluttering my UI or a crowd of players making it obvious where to go by grouping around every point of interest.

I heard that Journey had some sort of system where players would just kind of appear in worlds without anyone being informed, so that running into other players felt a bit more organic than a matchmaking queue or a dozen players spawning in an area. That seems like a good system for "Immersive™" multiplayer, since the chance of even running into them is low anyways.

Shit man I just want comfy RPG experiences with random people online.

463055 No.15139037


I don't think anyone wants that to happen. I think people just want to be able to use their intelligence to find things rather than being spoonfed or wander around aimlessly with foolish hope. For example, there's a riddle system in AssCreed Unity where you would be given a riddle and had to solve it by either studying the game world or reading the in-game encyclopedia.

What you're suggesting, however, can be implemented properly though. I thought the Korok seeds in BotW were well done because the rewards in collecting them weren't essential to the game and you don't have to collect all of them to fully max out Link.

6b1522 No.15139049


>I just don't feel like having to put more "work" into anything

<Using half of a brain to listen to a dialogue is a "work" now and is too taxing for my square head

You're just a bitter faggot and deserve a 12 gauge slug in the chest

c21d50 No.15139063

Name some actual games that have npcs, places to go, multiple maps or 'large open world' that do not rely on markers.

Sonic 06

6b1522 No.15139065


Ever tried playing nu-TES without markers and fast travel? I spent ingame weeks traveling and asking for directions and it was fun because stuff happened along the way.

My point is - kys degenerate casual

9c2881 No.15139068


t. chronic masturbator

c4d370 No.15139083

File: 90d6fcfb51fe715⋯.jpg (4.84 KB, 223x226, 223:226, todd.jpg)

File: eb7a3368fda0087⋯.png (60.03 KB, 266x419, 266:419, ClipboardImage.png)


gotchu fam

pls buy skyrim

fb0a89 No.15139094


Or a familiar which help you with flair, something like that

117ac6 No.15139096


normalfags are willing to spend lots of time doing things if theyre actually interested but theyre easy to influence if you make something look "official". your problem is the reviewers leading them down their own path.

heres what i really wanted to post though. are you seriously too shy to let a video game hold your hand you fat nerd?

0ae6e5 No.15139098


Its shit that 2D games cannot be mentioned for technical reasons since were talking landmarks and stuff that can be seen from distance. I would totally mention Hollow Knight otherwise.

3D adds so many more possibilities to the world exploring aspect of the game yet most of the AAA devs dont exploit that fact at all.

c21d50 No.15139108


hollow knight is fucking shit, because it's actually not a fun game until you fight bosses which are short-lived and totally not because i got lost in that game looking at every corner for hours on hours end

79c239 No.15139111


Designers aren't people.

t. programmer

678a4d No.15139118

File: 049020a8329d7cb⋯.gif (1.78 MB, 350x255, 70:51, 1468092573210.gif)


artists aren't people

t. programmer

595a9c No.15139125

File: 0a28d7826a5e5f2⋯.jpg (103.72 KB, 349x379, 349:379, 0a28d7826a5e5f244f387e5834….jpg)


Any individual working in the games industry isn't a person.


0ae6e5 No.15139139


I find hollow knight level progression to be fun.

Whatcha gonna do about that.

0c7413 No.15139144



They're people, they just don't fucking matter. See you guys back at /agdg/.

13ee05 No.15139152


waypoints and matchmaking have singlehandedly destroyed (((modern gaming)))

9380d2 No.15139159

File: 0ca0261fb8294ea⋯.png (541.38 KB, 847x512, 847:512, 0ca0261fb8294eae9a567eac7e….png)


Guarantee you this poster:

>goes to bed past 10 pm


>drinks alcohol

>eats like crap

>masturbates to 3D porn

>drinks coffee

And then people like him wonder why he doesn't have that youthful energy that used to come in a very large supply.

678a4d No.15139185

File: 635b6a994de2477⋯.jpg (107 KB, 736x460, 8:5, 635b6a994de2477619545b5fda….jpg)



>implying i visit that shithole

i mean, i do, but only for shits and giggles.

who the fuck would be stupid enough to do game development as a day job, let alone an unpaid one?

0ae6e5 No.15139195


>who the fuck would be stupid enough to do game development as a day job, let alone an unpaid one?


463055 No.15139233

File: ec9539e35edc70a⋯.jpg (23.53 KB, 640x362, 320:181, 2784260-5017165661-ps4-t.jpg)

Even though this is only semi-related, I thought it would be best to post here. Why aren't there more games that map driving to the mouse rather than to keys while WASD is used for camera? I don't mean controlling it like it's Doom, but holding A for example will show you what's over your left shoulder, and releasing it will set it back to center. And with gamepads, why don't they just map the camera in driving to the gyro sensor? Seriously, enabling gyro alone would make gamepads a viable alternative to HOTAS systems. In the case of the Dualshock 4, you could easily use that fucking touchpad for flicking all the switches too. I've been fantasizing about using it with BMS because my HOTAS is just a bitch to configure and I don't have TrackIR.

Why do devs not think about these things?

2c1bfc No.15139244


Nobody refers to artists or designers as developers. And no big company actually cares about saving employee effort unless it also saves or earns money. It's all about marketing here.

1e0565 No.15139271


The trackpad on the DS4 is really shitty, try using it on PC and see if your fantasies hold up.

ad5556 No.15139279


You ain't Goku

3f72ea No.15139299

Is there such thing as overdoing letting someone discover everything themselves with a subtle hint or "show, don't tell" in general?

Can any of you think of such a thing all the way since the 5th generation?

3f72ea No.15139305


It's called fucking creating your own thing you can enjoy forever without any interference and being proud of accomplishing it.

3f72ea No.15139325


I literally have ADHD and I hate being spoon-fed anything I can eventually figure out on my own.

My brother even told me I'm a natural at solving puzzles and appreciating what they mean for good game design. Completely satisfying.

463055 No.15139330


Tried it out using big picture mode on Steam, which isn't the best since it restricts half of the pad for cursor movement. It's not fantastic, but I think with a little ingenuity, it could be adapted for flight sims.

48f0df No.15139344


because they're all Pete Hines and which they could just walk away from this story bullshit for mediocre gameplay instead

1b6524 No.15139349

File: 02f517315c4f17f⋯.jpg (135.31 KB, 695x747, 695:747, Le happy koopa.jpg)


I wonder who could be behind this post.

a802da No.15139401

File: 31ccd83e7acc0b5⋯.png (108.9 KB, 856x540, 214:135, large_looks.png)

File: d45ef538113c0d4⋯.gif (14.44 KB, 303x197, 303:197, df Running_around_on_fire.gif)

File: 3a35fef03389ff9⋯.gif (185.34 KB, 765x619, 765:619, CrYDFET.gif)


>they just don't fucking matter

They do if you don't want your game to look like this.

8546a1 No.15139444


>carefully handcraft a world where every tree, bush, and rock has its place, where exploration really is rewarding and fun, and where the map is likely quite small due to the effort needed to make it

<or just procedurally generate everything, smack some shitty UI on top, and brag about how large your map is in your marketing

The problem will persist as long as the majority of devs is there for the money and not the passion

0e3aac No.15139449


I see nothing wrong with the images you posted.

d30a2f No.15139450


Reading and/or listening is hard for dumb fucks.

a802da No.15139499

File: 3f8a8fdbfb97de6⋯.png (6.16 KB, 520x397, 520:397, Chip's_Challenge.png)

File: d0cf71de4eeb537⋯.png (9.58 KB, 278x360, 139:180, Rodents_Revenge,_Screensho….png)


There is nothing wrong with them. Provided that you're OK with making a pure labor of love that is supported by the donations of a small but dedicated fan base.

If you want to hit an even slightly larger market then you're going to need graphics. Even just bare minimum, Chip's Challenge/Rodent's Revenge level graphics.

c4d370 No.15139525

File: 4bb6d4dd3d8ea73⋯.png (317.42 KB, 1920x2091, 640:697, dorf fort.png)

7a0864 No.15139528


Man, this isn't classic EverQuest we're talking about here. Morrowind did this pretty well and all you had to do was read a few lines, not much longer than the dialogue in OP's pic. If you don't find reading fun or at least tolerable, I don't know what to tell you anon, you are probably dumb. I have eyesight so bad that I can't drive a car, and my job is developing software, yet I still enjoy reading after a full day's work. I just can't empathize with your attitude.

7f8b9c No.15139563


>I spend all day putting effort into real life shit. I just don't feel like having to put more "work" into anything after already had spent all day working.


>It's not really time, as I said, it's the effort required. I like to relax while I play vidya. But don't get me wrong

Why even play games at that point? Listen to music, watch a film, binge some shitty Netflix show if you want to turn your brain off.

Whenever I happen to play a game that is overly dumbed down and un-immersive with overuse of UI elements, all I can think of is what a giant waste of time it is for me.

7f8b9c No.15139607


>Both of those are stupid. If there was rumor of a thief stash wouldn't someone have checked the tree already?

Its and exaggerated example to show differrent game design approaches to giving the player a hint. Youre autistic for taking it literally

>If you have a tree with unique features then players are going to check it out regardless.

Having loot just randomly scattered with no backstory makes for terrible worldbuilding. Its much more fun for the player to have to listen to conversations and then find the stash themselves based on what they heard than finding a differently painted tree.

595a9c No.15139623


That was done long before The Witcher 3.

a802da No.15139637

File: 52a4dfd11602206⋯.jpg (38.9 KB, 640x485, 128:97, dq8u6-008.jpg)


>Both of those are stupid. If there was rumor of a thief stash wouldn't someone have checked the tree already?

That's like complaining about why Link has to do everyone's chores. Game worlds are an amusement park for the the player not a simulation of reality unless the game happens to be a sim.

>If you have a tree with unique features then players are going to check it out regardless. You don't need any other clues.

What if the thief's stash doesn't exist until the player trips the correct flags as to prevent sequence breaking?

939bb1 No.15139655


>acting like a nigger is better than not acting like a nigger


a802da No.15139660


Beautiful but also user generated so that wasn't quite what I was talking about.

8be01d No.15139662


Honestly playing a modern video game is more draining than all of that combined.

e09bc4 No.15139663













Jesus Christ, calm the fuck down you retards. I already said that I don't want all games to be like that here: >>15138660

And no, I don't play games that often anymore. I spend most of my time doing outdoors shit these days. I just like to read about the technology that's going into it. Sorry that you guys are NEET faggots and don't know what being tired after a long day is like.

329c9e No.15139664

Well it's not like DF has a good UI

>inb4 DFIDF comes to defend their shitty game

Look, I've played it for years and had fun with it. But it absolutely is missing a good UI design that makes using it and cumbersome

7f8b9c No.15139681

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.


>I don't think anyone wants that to happen. I think people just want to be able to use their intelligence to find things rather than being spoonfed or wander around aimlessly with foolish hope

Regarding the OP, its not about intelligence at all. Its about immersion.

In both cases the objective is pointed out to the player.

The problem is that one game does it in a way that makes sense in the game world and is therefore immersive, while the other does it through UI pointers and highlights that only remind the player that they are playing a game and that completely ruins immersion.

595a9c No.15139712

File: 9786509464c29ec⋯.jpg (32.58 KB, 500x500, 1:1, 061.jpg)


>Acting like a nigger is better than acting like a goy

cc8250 No.15139771

File: 7fd7ef8f6897acf⋯.png (866.57 KB, 1840x2407, 1840:2407, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 920cad25022aa37⋯.png (505.38 KB, 900x900, 1:1, ClipboardImage.png)

For all it's flaws, Breath of the Wild actually manages to do what OP wants perfectly

Pretty much every environmental cue hides something, and all side quests revolve around describing you teh scenery and giving you clues, there are no waypoints.

cc8250 No.15139794

File: f831f5bb3404389⋯.png (1020.08 KB, 1840x2407, 1840:2407, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 00eb03a8cf1e81f⋯.png (1.48 MB, 1280x1280, 1:1, ClipboardImage.png)

File: f685d5cc82981cb⋯.png (849.75 KB, 569x886, 569:886, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 550c0af10943eec⋯.png (1000.75 KB, 758x758, 1:1, ClipboardImage.png)


>partially loaded pic


f73597 No.15139860


Bottom pic is even better the more vague it is, especially when the world map lacks a marker for player location. I like having to rummage around and waste some time looking for treasure. KCD treasure maps are a step in the right direction, even though the player marker on the map makes it a little too easy

3c5449 No.15139870

File: b8e1ba4cddac852⋯.jpg (66.22 KB, 807x605, 807:605, 1514226934026.jpg)


>I don't want games to be dumbed down

<but I want games to be dumbed down for me because I'm a tired old man who should've grown out of videogames when I realized they were "work" to me because I have to use my brain

People like you are directly responsible for the casualization of videogames. If you can't stand having to use your fucking head like the drooling normalfag NPC that you are, then fuck off and quit making things worse for the rest of us who actually enjoy using our brains instead of being told where to go by the infallible glowing compass.

459ab5 No.15139881

File: bc89c31de48e4f2⋯.jpg (28.49 KB, 539x558, 539:558, bc89c31de48e4f21c0e5ab2380….jpg)


I am impressed.

Where do you find the energy for outdoors shit when you are too old, jaded and tired from work to not have shit taste in videogames?

8be01d No.15139888


It's almost like he's lying to cover his ass or something.

c4d370 No.15139889


can someone post edit of this picture with sven throwing storm hammer please

f5d2d0 No.15139896

File: 968357a3ef295b1⋯.jpg (105.14 KB, 221x410, 221:410, 06b172412255a9662e6a32302e….jpg)


> this much fucking retardation

I work shift and I am capable of playing vidya after and before work.

You sound like a degenerate faggot with severe health, diet and mental problems. Unless you work 12 hour shifts 7 days a week, you go get raped by a platipus.

59c495 No.15139907

File: 98e749418f548e8⋯.jpg (434.87 KB, 750x500, 3:2, maines_child_labor_mess.jpg)


>Why normalfags seem to be unable to appreciate the bottom pic design.

I'd assume it's because most side-quests, and even a lot of main-quests, are just filler bullshit that are designed and written by junior staff members and interns for little more than to just be filler garbage. Nobody wants to put that kind of effort into garbage quests that are endemic to open world shit and rpgs. If each side-quest was actually interesting and engaging, with a decent narrative payoff, I think more people would be interested in turning off/away from waypoints and fast-travel. To top it off, because garbage filler-quests have become the norm and necessitates waypoints - developers have also gotten lazy with level/environment design, so if you take away the waypoints - it becomes much more difficult to actually find your objective since nobody gives clear directions, the environments are rarely memorable, and there are few lighting/audio/and other cues to tip the attentive player off. So in those few games that do try or allow you to turn off fast travel/waypoints - it becomes a cumbersome exercise in frustration.

In the end, it's all about cheap design created by cheap labor, sold at a premium - then claiming the crutches they need to make the game functional as a "convenience" to the player.

939bb1 No.15139920

File: 981349ce92b0964⋯.gif (462.56 KB, 300x188, 75:47, 1489027579178.gif)


>implying you're not acting like both as a NEET

Perhaps it's only my own experience with them, but I've never met a NEET who wasn't a lazy sack of shit.

35e0fa No.15139923


Both are bad because they remove the exploration from the game. You are not exploring when you are being told where to go through meta information, you're just getting a quick dopamine release because you're a fucking rat.

595a9c No.15139931


>lazy sack of shit.

Isn't that the core principle of he neet tho?

f5d2d0 No.15139938


The neets iv interacted in my country (mind you they were acquaintances from highschool, forever ago) had crippling depression, social anxiety and no drive to anything, most likely due to depression. One could easily assume these cunts are lazy fuckers and I do agree many are but from my experience there maybe different types of neets.

3e2abd No.15139941


The bottom only works if the devs are competent (chorus_of_laughter.wav) in it's implementation (it's been said at least a gorillion times in every single thread about this subject that "well they've gotta do it well) and you have a log to refer to.


It's almost like if something you do for fun ends up not being fun tires people.

Try playing a game you enjoy sometime but sit there staring at it for 5 minutes before doing anything (don't get to shitpost, listen to music etc. either) every time you get a loading screen/transition for a feeling of this effect.

fc0a11 No.15139945

Wew the 'tism is strong in this thread

>I don't like a certain game mechanic and don't play games with it

<I unironically believe you should be killed in real life for your preferences.

When did we get so many Muslims here

In a perfect world both types of games would be good and fun to play. But we all know that isn't the case.

735277 No.15139946


I'm a NEET and I study every fucking day. I'm not making any income, but fuck you I study and maybe one day I can turn muh learnings into something valuable. Just wanted to throw that out there.

a22beb No.15139952

File: e1e47554cf4a02f⋯.png (3.92 MB, 1584x964, 396:241, Crevanille.png)

File: 755dfef7324ca22⋯.gif (10.1 MB, 369x371, 369:371, French Fries.gif)

File: 45e5a7f2c7a5025⋯.jpg (145.41 KB, 1262x577, 1262:577, f286cd32e8e8f301d9bbe51e4b….jpg)


Anon why did you even post during summer? Most only NEETs and school kids flood this board during that time. Instead of being encouraged away from slack vidya behavior you're only gonna get losers screeching about "wagecucks" (ie not living off your parents at 30yrs old) deserving death and how your personal problem is somehow the catalyst for cancer in the industry.

Come back in October and enjoy better posting.

Also, as to your personal issue with vidya - it's easier once you get a game that's good instead of playing more than one. One game at a time is decent since you don't feel like you have a backlog. Most who have jobs and lives don't have backlogs because they have other things to do, but you can still enjoy good vidya without Skyrim, Witcher compassing if it's the only vidya you play.

Same with JRPGs. One at a time gives you plenty of time to enjoy it without feeling like you're wasting time or that you want to get it over with already to get to the next story or boss event.

595a9c No.15139968


If you study you are not a neet tho.

595a9c No.15139973


>"wagecucks" (ie not living off your parents at 30yrs old)

That's false. Depending of the country wagecucks need to live with their parents.

735277 No.15139975


NEET stands for Not in Education Employment or Training. If you're not going to school, if you don't have a job, or if you're not enrolled in some kind of vocational program that will get your ass into the workforce in 9 months or something like that, then you're a NEET. I study in my "free time" at home. I don't have a job, and I'm not going to school. I'm a NEET if you go by that definition.

324118 No.15140007

I know what you mean, but the bottom one is equally stupid though. I hate trial and error, but that's way too babby tier. If the NPC knows of a rumor that there's a hidden stash in a very easy to find tree, why wouldn't he go there himself?

Split that shit into two or more different information sources:

"Niggleberg the thief is rumored to have a stash somewhere" -> Tail Niggleberg.

"Somebody has been raiding caravans" -> Chad is spending a lot a the tavern -> Tail Chad

"Some manlet has been raiding caravans" -> It's probably Urist -> Find out he's dead -> Break into his home and search for clues

"Dipshit used to raid the caravans before he ran away to the north" -> Go north -> Notice he is a farmer now and has a family -> Force him to say where his old stash is or you'll kill his family

… or something that isn't complete shit like what I just wrote. Preferably with multiple valid ways to find the fucking stash that doesn't involve trial and error.

c43317 No.15140056


>I don't want to put "work" into games

>that's why I prefer my games to be as uninteresting and tedious as possible

>literally "I don't want to work in games so I prefer them as close to actual work as possible"

Really gets the noggin joggin

dcaeda No.15140097

File: ecb25da25f91cad⋯.jpg (55.21 KB, 740x342, 370:171, ecb25da25f91cad71dcbfa88d8….jpg)


>empty open world

>"""filled""" linear hallway

7e9bd9 No.15140118


Both are shit. The true solution would be that you have to do some detective work. Say you find a journal of a thief among the loot you got from destroying their camp. You read it and find the clues. You are told about where along the river or lake said tree is, and also read that it is a tree covered in blue fungus. Then you infer from both of those clues the correct tree and get your loot.

939bb1 No.15140127

File: 10c7b526484d18a⋯.jpg (1.28 MB, 2480x2458, 1240:1229, 1484360476384.jpg)


>linear means a hallway

88ac4a No.15140151


>I heard that Faggot stole someone's shibbledibble

>Ask Faggot about shibbledibble

>it was stolen from him by bandits after he stole it from someone else

>find bandit campit, kill bandits, find shibbledibble

>get reward for returning shibbledibble to niggly

>or keep the shibbledibble for your own nefarious purposes

96a231 No.15140168

Normalfags don't have time to figure shit out, they just want to get their quick fix.

056d49 No.15140172


Open world was a flawed concept to begin with. Devs made them bigger and bigger to showcase new tech and to have something for fanboys to scream about. Remember how Assassins creed games always have "this map is X times larger than the last game!" in their e3 presentations? It's just a sales pitch. It was fine up to a point, I really like open world travel when there are large, well designer, well planned hubs of activity and not just "here's 100 arbitrary things spread around the map for you to collect so we can pass off the size of the map as a feature".

Discussing which method to convey hints for the player to go to the objective is just discussing how to make a terrible feature easier to handle.

dcaeda No.15140183

File: d548e46809e8ea5⋯.png (1.04 MB, 895x1049, 895:1049, d548e46809e8ea53c29f0e67d1….png)


Most hallways have doors that lead to dead end rooms in them. They are still hallways, and those linear games are still completed by walking in a straight line to the end.

324118 No.15140194

File: 396d9c6113a592c⋯.jpg (19.84 KB, 500x282, 250:141, leredditfilename.jpg)


>Return it for a reward and then steal it once again.

>Or, Faggot was lying to you to get you off his back. He expected the bandits to kill you, so now you hunt him down after he made a run for it.

"Kill the bandits" is getting a bit boring to me. Bandits are dumb as fuck and have swords (and should be fairly competent with them), how about some ways to outsmart them instead?

fb0a89 No.15140201


He finally showed us his true form

fb0a89 No.15140206


At the end, it's still filled with emptiness

dcaeda No.15140215


Who you responded to gave you two examples to the contrary.

7e4cca No.15140283

I'll take it a step further than all of you casual faggots who think you're hardcore because you don't want waypoint.

No in game maps. You get a pack in map with the game that you have to manually reference, and no maps for buildings or dungeons. You can't find something? Cry about it. Games turned into this cancer when everybody regardless of how lazy or stupid they were had to get 100% completion. If you can't find something and don't want to put in the effort, then don't do it.

You aren't much better than waypoint faggot when you get auto journal notes and have maps of every building/dungeon/city handed to you automatically.

d4c006 No.15140309


>t. mudslime

ebe036 No.15140320

normalfags are incapable of conceptualizing an RPG. To them, the point of all games is to achieve the objective, and doing so in the most efficient way is the correct way. In other words, they can conceive of Action, puzzle, strategy, etc., and they can conceive of an adventure/exploration game, but they conceptualize all RPGs as some combination of the above.

Viewing it through this lens, it is easy to see why obscuring the objective is seen as a no-fun mechanic.

7599d1 No.15140325


This is partly why Morrowind is so great compared to later Elder Scrolls.

465927 No.15140326

File: 34306fb0d323be8⋯.jpg (122.04 KB, 947x734, 947:734, 1406494228716.jpg)


>What if the thief's stash doesn't exist until the player trips the correct flags as to prevent sequence breaking?

If you're the sort of faggot gamedev who believes this is good, know that you are why everything good is buried under a mountain of shit.

437a66 No.15140339


>4th pic

Link confirmed for non-jew

7e4cca No.15140361


>muh immersion

You faggots have done enough damage to games already. They are GAMES for a reason. They aren't all meant to be some immersive virtual world. They are meant to be fun challenges to pass the time. You faggots brought us the cancerous motion controls.

a76d55 No.15140375



look, i know what it is to be jaded and bored of the same games coming out with different skins, but that doesn't mean games should be fucking autowalkers for retards. thats the mark of a shitty game. And thats all people consume these days, so its all that gets made.

8450fd No.15140379


>You get a pack in map with the game

Slow the fuck down there, casual. Why aren't you making your own maps on graph paper like a real gamer?

940534 No.15140413


Videogames are meant to entertain. By definition, a game typically needs an end goal or "win condition," but the method of getting there is what differentiates a good game from a bad game. Like you said, games are meant to be both fun and challenging; the problem here is that some people enjoy immersive worlds and learning based on experimentation and observation, and literal retards think having someone tell you exactly what to do every 5 seconds with a big glowing arrow to the goal is the pinnacle of digital entertainment.

024864 No.15140422


Immersion should be an important part of open world RPGs. I see nothing wrong with that statement anyway, he's pushing for player problem solving and no spoonfeeding LOOK GO HERE screen markers.

595a9c No.15140426


>Videogames are meant to entertain.

No. Some games are meant to make you think or to make escapism easier.

b91636 No.15140464


I'm 36 and I just want games to turn into a marriage of Dwarf Fortress and Wurm at this point.

a1160c No.15140471


immersion is a vapid concept that varies from person to person, for many people it flat out doesn't exist. "needing" something so ethereal is just pointless posturing without saying anything of meaning.

595a9c No.15140478


But some games achieve it and there's even consensus about it.

a76d55 No.15140480

File: 6baa99f4a17123f⋯.jpg (21.6 KB, 552x468, 46:39, think.jpg)


>Some games are meant to make you think

name one

a1160c No.15140499


>even consensus about it.

No there's not. Immersion doesn't exist.

b91636 No.15140501

a76d55 No.15140511


chess is shit. fucking feminist whamen pandering.

758121 No.15140518


What game?

b91636 No.15140521


What if he used the word 'compelling' instead?

a4d3e5 No.15140523


I still cant figure out 4k games

a1160c No.15140533


I'd be so moved I'd suddenly believe in fake concepts like immersion and atheism.

b91636 No.15140550


Weather it is shit or not is irrelevant it is a game which makes one think. If we want to drill into semantics a game can't be a game if the participants don't think.

b91636 No.15140555


Says the guy immersed in god's semen.

a76d55 No.15140561


is god a dickgirl?

024864 No.15140562


I see your point, I do think it exists but it's like the word "fun", it's much more useful to describe the elements that constitute this fun instead of blurting it with no explanation. I'd say generally "immersion" constitutes writing and worldbuilding that makes a setting believable and music and visuals that produce a compelling, comfy or curious feeling.

a1160c No.15140585


I can quantify fun better than I can quantify immersion. Immersion is a fading feeling that leaves you over time, it is immeasurable and easily shattered even in the most "immersive" of games like Thief the Dark Project by having the enemies look like paper mache pinatas or in stalker shadow of chernobyl where an AI spawns half-way in the floor, instantly ragdolls and blasts the body collision sfx the entire time you're in the map. Immersion does not exist.

940534 No.15140586


>Challenging your mental ability and engaging in escapism aren't entertainment

What are they then?






>I don't believe it exists.

You know god damn well what we're discussing. Immersion as far as this discussion is concerned is disguising otherwise direct and blatant instructions to the player as in-world and (debatably) believable information via character dialogue, behavior, and environmental clues.

a1160c No.15140595


>believable information via character dialogue,

that's writing and acting.


AI design.

>and environmental clues.

level design. all subjects more worth discussing than "immersion."

940534 No.15140659


In regard to a player's experience with a game, however, you can use the term immersion to more directly relate those elements to the player's understanding of information and the world. I still believe it's important for a game to use good writing/acting, AI design, and level design to teach and instruct the player, it's just that "immersion" is a blanket term used to refer to those things. Better writing, better coding, better game design etc. all make a more immersive game.

313e4f No.15140802

File: 1b4b3f9b7384e64⋯.jpg (2.37 MB, 3466x2482, 1733:1241, 1968137acce776502bfca02d04….jpg)




This is what peak open world quest design should be like:

>You have a quest and it involves you getting from A to B

>You are allowed to explore freely with no guide markers or way points. Maybe make it so that the object in question glimmers subtlety once you get close enough.

>Fast travel is like M&B and KC: Deliverance, accelerated time where your character moves around fast on the map and can still have encounters.

>Quest description can vary. If it's far away from the quest giver than it would only be a region ( e.g. Reikland) or town (e.g. Grunburg). Once you get to the quest area you can start asking around about what your looking for.

>Reading books, exploring, and asking local NPC's gives clues and landmarks that get added to your journal.

>If you need to you can hire a NPC guide (local hunter or adventurer) to lead you there.

It's the best of both worlds really, you get to explore and discover freely without the Quest marker spoiling the fun.

And the mouth breathers get a companion to take them to the quest if they can't find there own way.

It's crazy to me that all these games use the same waypoint formula when they already have the tools to let npc's guide you.

Hell fifty percent of the quests in Skyrim have NPC's that accompany you already.

Why not let them show you the way rather than "Omnipotent Floating Arrow Pointer"?

db18fd No.15141068


>Not nailing your hands to the keyboard and forcing yourself to meticulously memorize every square inch of a 150x150 mile environment, exterior and interiors


70fa23 No.15141105

File: 34bdc138b0482cd⋯.jpg (44 KB, 532x399, 4:3, Hnefatafl.jpg)

09ae3d No.15141116


I was just using that as an example, it would be more interesting to give the player's options like

>sneak into the bandit camp in the dead of night and nab the shibbledibble

>bargain with them using coin or some other valuable trinket

>join the bandits, gain their trust, then slit their throats as they sleep and take all the loot


574103 No.15141352


you are so disconnected from reality

f10c8b No.15141374

File: 0dca1e22e26185a⋯.png (703.65 KB, 950x718, 475:359, de2fcb53144b16c4edd4eeb5ee….png)


I know this is bait but the queen wasn't always called or depicted as such. Originally it was an advisor, minister, vizier, etc.

80fa27 No.15141527


Why would such character roles be chosen for the best piece in chess?

b2d776 No.15141544


>Why would such character roles be chosen for the best piece in chess?

think of it as the right hand man of the king and then think how much that 1 piece can influence the game. why do the pieces have specific rules and restrictions? chess is as much about politics as it is about war.

611fcb No.15141550

the only problem with bottom design is that sometimes the directions are either too vague, a few times in morrowind characters' directions will just say something like "go to the hills in the east" for example

f0bad7 No.15141575


>wow it took me all of 10 seconds to figure out where this location is

Kill yourself.

f4ce25 No.15141598

File: cdbb8d47ede1d81⋯.png (236.62 KB, 600x679, 600:679, cia guars.png)


Jesus Christ are you a fucking yid?

>Hating people for wanting to pursue their dream

>"Don't ever try to do anything yourself, goy!"

f4f40d No.15141637


Bioshock Infinite

82eeae No.15141686


>tfw 28 year old boomer

Surely this is my last year of being a NEET.

8f340b No.15141736


>current state of white people

fa60ef No.15141755

File: 5f016eb910c2b4c⋯.jpg (164.11 KB, 889x889, 1:1, 5f016eb910c2b4c0cfb3a72988….jpg)


Because normalfags want to play vidya for an hour or two after work, and by that point they're tired. They don't want to engage with the game in a meaningful way or put in any effort, they just want to watch the pretty animations and feel nice because they found a +5 axe of box breaking or whatever. I don't mind such games existing since there has to be something for the casuals, but you are correct that pretty much every title in recent memory is designed this way. It's like no one knows how to guide a player without a quest marker anymore. Once again devs catering to casuals and normalfags leads us to not having nice things.

The really sad part is that most such games are simply not designed to be played without a quest marker. I recall some fag making a video about how you can turn markers off in Witcher 3 but it's pointless because there's no one to give you directions and there's not enough landmarks. You're effectively crippling yourself and have no alternative. I swear writing down things you read or hear in a game is dead, can't even do it if you want to.


Holy shit, have you never put effort into something you enjoy? Have you ever made something with your own hands? What kind of awful existence do you live?


Well, when you think about it it's pretty hard to separate war from politics.

7597b2 No.15141772

Going to have option to turn On/Off the top in the game I'm deving.

f102f7 No.15141821

I like game where I get a sense of exploration.

I've always liked Zelda because when you take the wrong direction you always find something worth exploring anyways and end up feeling very satisfied, feeling like a true adventurer.

Just like going on a stroll in the countryside and finding stuff you never knew was there.

What games can replicate that feeling ?

244af1 No.15141875


>not being smart and using detect magic spell to find the enchanted ring

777e97 No.15141880

File: 3763ea43132cdfd⋯.jpg (322.51 KB, 1280x800, 8:5, wp-01-Shenmue-Ryo_Ling_Cha….jpg)


>no big arrow or visible trail to next goal

Pic related gets that right.

2d224e No.15141881

File: 8f6cd8a4244e99d⋯.jpg (405.95 KB, 722x1420, 361:710, gaysvsOPvs,̸ v,̸ .jpg)


>Why normalfags seem to be unable to appreciate the bottom pic design where the tree glows bright blue?

244af1 No.15141942



In morrowind the stash of that woodelf exists with some random stuff in it, but he only hides the money when you observe him placing it there.

244af1 No.15141955


>Fast travel

Gimme that bus system from morrowind that drains your money early game anyday.

apart from that, good comment

ac6f84 No.15141968


>that 30 year old boomer who is to retarded for games

7abfab No.15141978


>I-I'm not bad at games, I just go outside unlike you neets!

2d224e No.15141983

File: 16ba0089a627251⋯.png (140.12 KB, 622x626, 311:313, 16ba0089.png)


>"ay m8! Can yeh be fussed to 'ave a look around me store house for me lost dog? poor soul probably hasn't eaten in days, I'm beginning to worry about her.. It's just down the road a tad over by the chapel not more than three minutes from here."

>no waypoint

>no hints """">no hints""""

>no fast travel

>game world is Y by Z kilometers large

<Wait the game isn't telling where to go wtf!? How am I supposed to complete the objective?!

2cefde No.15141985


>game that uses real world locations for shit, but doesn't actually require you to be at said locations in real life, is an Augmented Reality Game

Jesus fucking Christ you're retarded.

d3a529 No.15141986


What is BOTW?

8f340b No.15141998


>3 whole minutes

015f91 No.15142015

File: fa40d5841de63de⋯.png (160.3 KB, 402x450, 67:75, d9cab23e72fcfd4a4f974abe4f….png)


>he doesn't want to just push a button and something awesome to happen

736fb7 No.15142075


Good job, man. You triggered these autists with ease.

18f838 No.15142101

File: 2111564f3d1956d⋯.png (303.62 KB, 640x480, 4:3, kirby_super_star_review_04.png)


You want to know what I'm fucking tired of? These shitty minimalist UI's. The fucking failed art school faggots think they are too good for flashly, appealing UI's because they making their shitty retard pacifiers look like video games. I'm fucking tired of this shitty all white, fade-in style "realistic" bullshit. Pic unrelated

Rape font for extra impact.

cfb11a No.15142149

File: 913ea5c4ac188ff⋯.webm (4.06 MB, 640x360, 16:9, syka morrowind.webm)

79359a No.15142157

File: db07b85e4ecbf0f⋯.jpg (46.98 KB, 577x376, 577:376, image.jpg)


I'm surprised nobody has mentioned that Pokemon (at least the older games as far as I know) does stuff like in the bottom pic. That hasn't stopped millions from playing and enjoying Pokemon. As long as devs make characters and places look distinct and feel memorable, bottom pic should do fine.

1c12d8 No.15142585


Yeah that would be the next thing I hate after waypoints.

Any kind of minimap of map that shows your position completely negates most of the world building the devs put in. No way to get lost, no need for looking around and finding out where exactly you are on the map. Nothing, just press M like a fucking monkey and you instantly see everything.

0bb13c No.15142608

File: 15909f828a3b172⋯.png (669.02 KB, 704x448, 11:7, ClipboardImage.png)


>implying gaudy, over-complicated AIs that remove a quarter of the screen are a good thing

you might have had a point if you didn't use kirby

1c12d8 No.15142610


>Not sewing your eyes shut and navigating the game world solely by listening to the sounds the player makes when he runs into things


521ea8 No.15142620



>in movies

Silly anon

1c12d8 No.15142627


>player spends the next 2 weeks checking out every tree in the game world


024864 No.15143784

File: 8b0fa3a6d03b522⋯.png (2.51 MB, 1920x1080, 16:9, ClipboardImage.png)


>not stalking the thief to see where the stash is

f505fc No.15143899

File: 38e3030ce64a97f⋯.png (221.38 KB, 517x527, 517:527, fzm3lpaj.png)


>expecting normalfags to actually think

7f8b9c No.15144106


>immersion is a vapid concept that varies from person to person

so is "fun", "challenge"

7f8b9c No.15144137

File: 8fff6bfa358516f⋯.png (83.84 KB, 419x238, 419:238, e02e5ffb5f980cd8262cf7f0ae….png)


>I can quantify fun better than I can quantify immersion

7f8b9c No.15144144


was the player a Valve employee?

1c12d8 No.15144208


>stalking an invisible thief


9ed6e0 No.15144218


How about when the compass points you towards a general area but not the exact objective.

1c12d8 No.15144276


why leave that part of gameplay to something as boring as an compass

4ef8ec No.15144306



024864 No.15144321


why would he be invisible?

4ef8ec No.15144324

File: 52e839e3fb53255⋯.png (Spoiler Image, 1.88 MB, 2000x1000, 2:1, 1467925962870.png)


And someone please post the webm of the warning coloration roastie complaining while the numale besides her regrets his life choices, I don't have it.

7f8b9c No.15144340

File: c87e6707d2b61f4⋯.jpg (637.65 KB, 1800x457, 1800:457, solution.jpg)

Guys, Ive figured it out.

Here is a solution that satisfies everyone, from the hardcore to the most casual of casuals

3d8d27 No.15144367


why did he attacked you?

4ef8ec No.15144383

File: 11c353402c02350⋯.jpg (Spoiler Image, 304.96 KB, 1872x807, 624:269, slavs always win.jpg)


Games aren't countries, choice generally leads to 2 mediocre outcomes and corner cases where people won't give themselves the challenge and just wait 10 minutes for the mission to flip to games journalist mode. A player shouldn't be worrying about what shitty mode they're going to experience the game in, but instead on how much fun they're going to have. To introduce something like your pic is turning the game into a chore you must force yourself to complete instead of a toy for you to have fun with.

This ties back to retards in the mid 2000s pushing for every game to be open world so they can have the "freedom to roam the game world" and become free to bore themselves out in the vast emptyness with nothing to do of the average garbage open world game that became the norm thanks to them.

52a24b No.15144464


I'm ~30 and have a wife, kid, and house of my own. I don't get much time to game, but when I do, I like to immersed as fuck. I hate modern games even more than I used to.

When I want my hand held, I read books. Games should not be passive experiences.


>30 year old




>claims to hate modern games

<doesn't want to help fix them

get out

6c0430 No.15144489


>made for /d/

Wew, I'm not even remotely surprised. Worst fucking porn board back on halfchan.

I remember the /d/ here used to be better because it didn't allow futa, but then a fucking cuckchan fag got control of the board and allowed it because futafags couldn't bear going to their own boards.

18a336 No.15144492


tbh i don't much care for either, i'd prefer a mission where you need to fight or assassinate the thief

9aea9c No.15144518


>30 year old


Please learn what the words you write mean before using them.

6c0430 No.15144525


30-year-old boomer is a cuckchan meme.

825625 No.15144526


That makes some sense, as he technically wouldn't have placed the ring before a certain point. I should really be based on a schedule return of the ring to the stump after a set amount of in game time, but IIRC NPC schedules and such were an Oblivion innovation.

aa496b No.15144577


For real.

The real problem is, they will never make a game that isn't cryptic for any reason other than to fuck the player. Gotta' be the next Dank Solez! The Legend of Zelda was great because there was no GameFAQs or similar free service to get tips and guides. You had your friends, IF they had the game, and IF they figured anything out, and that was IF they weren't afraid of being called a nerd or a "Nintendo freak" just for playing video games when not doing stuff with friends or family.

Now, a game is only permitted to have obscure shit, if the player is going to be slapped down for being nosy. Oh, trying to sidle around this blind cliff side to see what's off the beaten path? DEATH. I don't know, I think it stems from the fact that most game developers don't have a decade of experience under their belts anymore. Not many hobbyist programmers rising from their dark dungeons, to bring arcane knowledge of processors and memory timing with them. Mostly soyim and H1B street shitters being jammed in, to keep the devil while man out.

f21961 No.15145130


>4th pic

What is the message this image is trying to convey? Also is that his foreskin or his nutsack making that glider.

b5fd81 No.15146364

When I play skyrim, I simply TURN THE HUD OFF. And the anon in the thread who enjoys games that make it easier on you is right, I don't always feel like playing some game where there's 90% filler and 10% gameplay. I'd rather play skyward sword than TP or that new one because I don't want a chore of finding the gameplay. I do that when Im working, hiking, or whatever. And imagine gta without the HUD. But still, a turn-your-mind-off-game for me does not have an HUD. Skyrim, Animal Crossing, Shadow of the Collossus, Sunshine, OG loz. I can't play jrpgs, it's worst of both camps. 90% garbage filler and it's mostly overcomplicated UI bullshit and walls of pedantic text.

fc30a1 No.15146388


I get you bro. Sometimes you just want comfy and relaxing shit. I just wish more games tried to actually involve the player, rather than give them everything in a silver platter.

a48199 No.15146403

>Why normalfags seem to be unable to appreciate the bottom pic design.

because they don't play games to explore gameplay mechanics, it's an interactive movie to them and despite video games being mainstream now they still aren't "cool" if they're any deeper than skyrim. This sort of applies to any hobby past it's base level, nerd-chic is in but actually having deeper understanding of how something works or exploring a medium beyond the surface content is shunned.


I could ALMOST understand how you feel if it weren't for the bitch rest of the post. When it comes to exploring a game world to find certain things THERE ARE points where a game just doesn't explain it well enough or give a player means to go find it without resorting to a guide. Stuff like 'go back to a town you visited once with seemingly no reason to go back there after [x] happens in game to trigger [y]" is actually a case where you need to give the player better incentive but just a glowing breadtrail is unsatisfying. It's all about balance

a48199 No.15146491


It was once pointed out back around release that you can turn the HUD off but the game isn't built for that very well since you aren't often given directions or clues of where to go, you'd get location names but that means you open and close the map a lot and it's still not really satisfying exploring.

e92879 No.15146532


Good webm

22f8bc No.15147423


people here think everything is organized in to groups of similar minds after spending so long basing basing every argument around strawmen and that normalfags surely must all represented by reviewers and whoever is most convenient to the argument. politics are a mind killer.

a803df No.15147815


What effort? The effort to follow simple instructions and figure out where something is? In the OP example the tree is colored differently to stand out as much as possible, the point is that you aren't completely spoonfed with annoying popups and garbage UI's

>more along the lines of Animal Crossing where I can chill the fuck out

The kind of games the pic is talking about tend to be pretty open ended, so you can just wander around doing whatever and take your sweet time with the main quest, like Zelda and See that Mountain V: You can Climb it. And I've only played the Gamecube Animal Crossing, but you still have to navigate your randomly generated town and figure out where things are yourself.


>binge some shitty (((Netflix))) show





f1fbd3 No.15147884


>all that shit

You are the sole reason why Genocide should be a legitimate form of expression.

31fd37 No.15148044


why would he be ?

2c7420 No.15148198


It has less to do with normalfags and more to do with devs being lazy when designing environments. At the same time, games are getting bigger and bigger, you can't seriously expect most people to get to know a giant mass of land out of the blue unless you design it with recognizable landmarks and environments that are clearly distinguishable from one another, on top of that you need to make players familiar with it instead of sending them all over the place.

Even devs like Ubishit are seeing that hud clutter it's getting ridiculous, the latest asscreed and fagcry no longer have a minimap, just a simple compass, so someone in there actually has a brain.

18a336 No.15149419


i don't get it, isn't /d/ for ALL the degenerate fetishes?

b6dfc1 No.15152889


>And no, I don't play games that often anymore. I spend most of my time doing outdoors shit these days. I just like to read about the technology that's going into it. Sorry that you guys are NEET faggots and don't know what being tired after a long day is like.

This is the rambling of an untermensch living in a delusion where he thinks he has to work harder than the strawmen he constructs to be his peers, and believes that his laziness is therefore justified.

Compare & contrast your "long day":

Wake up at 6am.

Cycle 20km, listening to lectures on the way.

Hit the gym to do weights, shower, and change into business attire.

Managerial STEM position until 5pm, break spent reading non-fiction or studying.

Cycle 20km, listening to lectures.

Arrive home, cook dinner with partner, watch news together, communicate about day & important topics.


Spend quality time exercising, learning together, doing puzzles/crosswords.

Personal time, reading/studying/video games/shitposting.

Sleep at 11pm.

Your lack of effort and care is not isolated to your recreation time, but indicative of your nature. Work sets you free.

5321a5 No.15152902


>with partner

Whatever fag

b6dfc1 No.15152911


Woman is assumed, as homosexuality is a corruption of the function of fertility, not a partnership.

5321a5 No.15152942


Whatever fag, you'd say girlfriend or fiance or wife if you weren't a fag. It doesn't even matter if she's a woman you're still a fag for using gay terms

b6dfc1 No.15152949


I think I'll keep the exact nature of that partnership as unclear as the other items discussed as so not to allow myself to be identified on here, and I don't think you can do anything about that.

a53e25 No.15152962



5321a5 No.15152972


It just makes you gay is all

e17395 No.15152992


>if you weren't gay you'd use one of these specific words that exclude the others in your generic example, rather than a generic term

Do you have brain damage?

26c6b2 No.15153732

File: 9656f4a1f4be805⋯.gif (1.03 MB, 300x225, 4:3, this thread.gif)


27feaf No.15154766


This is me now. I rarely even fire up games these days because I do not have the energy to think about anything. My biggest hobby is coming here and saying stupid shit to get other people mad at me because for some ungodly reason it's the only thing that gives me a dopamine hit anymore.

I'm so tired all the fucking time. I have so many things I'd LIKE to do, but never do because I'm exhausted.

9ef7be No.15154871


>you still expect people to cater to you

>they are the ones being catered to

makes me think. if you think of videogames as anything other than entertainment you are fucking stupid. if he finds that entertaining what is the harm in games adopting this system? just play something else so you both have options

363cfb No.15154940

File: 384e0b42e4934f5⋯.png (421.73 KB, 549x538, 549:538, 71.png)


Why would NEETs flood the boards during summer? They are, by definition, constantly unemployed. They have just as much free time in October as they would in July.

People who think the post quality rises and falls dramatically here during certain periods are delusional. This isn't cuckchan. There are 3k people here on /v/ tops. No army of 12 year olds is sweeping into 8chan.

If anything, the only reason you notice more people making fun of retarded wagecucks and dumbasses like OP is because a lot of wagecucks take their vacations in the summer, and thus there are more retarded posts made by them for us NEETs to bitch about.

5321a5 No.15154950


I'm just shitting on the guy for a laugh settle down

9ef7be No.15154989

File: ff27427dc96c65b⋯.png (1.64 MB, 1920x1080, 16:9, 6756878796.png)

i dont see the problem with waypoints. they are just a means to an end and are being overblown. it is only a direction to the actual game portion of the game. the fact you need to be told where to go at all is a flaw of openworld games, because this walk you adore is just filler. but most people obviously only care about the destination, it is more fun to fight enemies than to walk around, and there is no reason you cannot be ambushed or for nothing more interesting to happen on the way with either system. really, how is it anything more than a format? what makes it different from daggerfall or even occasionally morrowind system where they literally mark destinations on the map? what is the mechanical difference between a glowing marker and a dirt road that leads off the trail? if rpgs were known for unremarkable locations, wouldn't you complain when they make a blatant location neon green? that is a waypoint system all the same. you wont agree because youve never played it but skyrim had more thought put into the locations and likely because they didn't have to worry about something as trivial as an interactive loading zone

t. 30 hours in morrowind

9ef7be No.15155018


also to add to this, they dont put waypoints on everything in new games. only things they want to put far away, i feel this is conveniently left out of the argument. games like oblivion for example used both, but during events such as the thieves guild initiation they tell you nothing and you need to ask around for information

024864 No.15155049


Because markers hinder exploring and figuring out the route, instead of looking around or at all struggling to find the destination, you have a constant head on pointer. Lack of roads, signing and systems that allow you to ask for information is also detrimental and caused by relying on markers too much.

A game like Fallout NV which is regarded as good was ruined for me because of this abuse of markers. Never did I have to navigate or pay attention, the bloody thing is always there pointing to the next objective. It's shit, I don't care if it's more convenient for people who have no more patience or time for video games, it's a baby mode mechanic.

0fb470 No.15155057


Even if this wasn't stale bragging bait.

>Wake up at 6am.

>Cycle 20km, listening to lectures on the way.

>Wreck and get run over by a garbage truck because you were paying attention to Jordan Peterson telling you to sort yourself out and clean up your room instead of watching the road

>Lifting weights every day

You'll only risk overtraining and hurting your gains or doing a whole lot of half assed lifts. You make no gains that way.

698347 No.15155064


I remember this from when I played Skyrim. The game gives it to you for free pretty much at the very beginning. Don't know why you would ever use it when the game already has quest markers anyways.

359a3e No.15155080


Navigation is enjoyable. With waypoints there is no need to get familiar or immersed in the world since you just sort of sleepwalk through the entire thing since the game now does all the thinking for you. It's much more rewarding, satisfying and fun to figure out where to go on your own. Waypoints trivialize what could have been interesting gameplay and that is horrible.

cdaa95 No.15155088

File: 66d36a7b6279e83⋯.jpg (1.22 MB, 3264x2448, 4:3, todds guild room.jpg)


Maybe you want to feel special and use both so you can waste mana at the same time?

000000 No.15155138


No, because devs are codemonkeys, they do what they are paid for, average wagecucks.

Indie scene is almost the same; tranny faggots expressing themselves or faggots whou didnt get hired and want some money to go breeding.

You have only one choice. Get a crew/band together and make a quality game.

9ef7be No.15155269



i feel it is more of a convenience. some people forget at one time maps weren't a thing in rpgs, and you had to draw them out if you wanted to. and some people genuinely enjoyed this system, and find newer fagnabbled mechanics such as ingame maps or ingame quest log to be just as mindless. but there is still something to love in those newer games. in new vegas for example, because it was mentioned, new locations dont railroad you as was claimed. they mention new characters that you WANT to talk to and it does reward exploration (retired ranger in novac, that gives a new melee move for example, or all those special weapons you wouldn't find without looking around). now i am not saying new vegas takes skill or anything, it was also very mindless but i didn't ever feel like i had to actually think when characters ingame said anything in morrowind either. i just had to walk around to relevant characters and ask them to point me in the right direction, or read signs, that doesn't take skill at all. it is fascinating that people have become elitist over methods of handholding

024864 No.15155279


One is a far cry from the other, much more natural, better design and less hamfisted handholding. I don't really care for pretending both are equal and shouldn't be differentiated.

82e09a No.15155309


This isn’t exactly related but I like the idea of the player character itself being the ui. For example, instead of having a health bar the character would get progressively bloodier when losing health, and when they’re one hit away from dying the sound of a throbbing heart would play, or something along those lines

9ef7be No.15155329

File: e326eda9590e336⋯.jpg (58.5 KB, 640x466, 320:233, 56476868765.jpg)


there is so little different i find it ironic, you just want to feel superior to other people. back in MY day we had to draw maps, with the only way to know the directions being a compass! so kids these days just open a premade accurate map. now games are designed with locations that visually look different in mind. heh, kids really are playing em wrong today. i take pride in having a more interesting experience in singleplayer pve games than fagnabbled 90s kids

024864 No.15155350

File: 834424debc37689⋯.jpg (73.15 KB, 639x639, 1:1, 834424debc37689ab99a1317f7….jpg)


thanks gramps, now go play skyrim

003980 No.15155363

File: 802edda9eabba7d⋯.png (176.65 KB, 2523x1117, 2523:1117, angrygoons.PNG)


Because you have nostalgia goggles for that shit. For every good hint that is clearly mirrored by the game and that rewards explorationg, there are 5 bad hints that give you directions that only make sense if you approach the hinted location from the direction the developer intended.

This means you're hunting for that visual marker the quest giver hints at for longer than needed with minimal reward simply because you didn't think in exactly the same way the developer thought you should be.

Get over it.

f102f7 No.15156117


By only caring about the destination you miss the journey.

9ef7be No.15156229


that comes off as rather vague and pretentious, as if people dont explore or go off the "rails" so to say in newer openworld games. most content is side content now after all. how these threads rub off, more time consuming instantly means better. when the tribunal expansion added a quest list feature to the journal of morrowind were you also upset? now players dont even have to use the journal, my immersion. and i mention morrowind a lot because it seems like everyone who dislikes waypoints praises it. but just how significant are these features you fondly remember? i remember playing ultima 7, the only journal was an ingame notepad, they didn't automate nothin. dont you think people who played ultima 7 at the time and praise it even today would say that an automated journal takes away the personal experience in the same way? but yet people today manage to have fun and get immersed in games that tell you what the character is thinking. in 10 years dont you think kids, now adults, will dwell on the fact every rpg has a voiced protagonist? back when skyrim was new we had to imagine what our character sounded like. or some other equally unsubstantial change that sounds awful and impersonal on paper

f55611 No.15156646


I dunno mate I typically work 14 hour days and I absolutely loathe games that are designed around walking at an objective marker with no thought or exploration. I think you're just a giant faggot.

16062b No.15162364


holy shit thats the best one yet

>tfw Todderina will never whisper sweet lies into your ear as you're plowing her boy pussy

21426b No.15172287


>not wanting Todd to step on your balls

Shit taste.

359a3e No.15172325


>the only journal was an ingame notepad, they didn't automate nothin. dont you think people who played ultima 7 at the time and praise it even today would say that an automated journal takes away the personal experience in the same way?

Giving you control like that is wonderful. Being able to set locations on a map with my own description in System Shock was fucking fantastic, I wish more games did this. I love when games force you to be more involved, use your brain, when you start automating everything it becomes less and less like a game and the closer you get to receiving the same experience by watching rather than playing.

5e5c1d No.15172364


>>they are the ones being catered to

Because they have low as fuck standards and don't care about quality. As long as the game hits their instant-gratification sweet spot they'll gladly shell out money.

>what is the harm

>just play something else

Are you really this fucking dense? What fucking rock have you been living under? Maybe you should crawl back under it and never emerge again.

b08adc No.15172433


Funny how Neverwinter Nights nailed the dice roll combat but Morrowind's was just not as good.

5c5ba0 No.15172471

File: d7bcb7ea5392bf0⋯.webm (571.92 KB, 1122x648, 187:108, skyrim.webm)


the two games aren't comparable. i think all morrowind needed was some animations when your attacks missed or enemies dodged so it wouldn't have been as visibly jarring or boring. the thing that made nwn combat cool is the animations were really good. you had multiple dodges, blocks with your weapon and shield and more i can't remember

4fdd83 No.15172481


Morrowind's dice combat would still be there with animations or not. It's not fun killing one enemy for an hour.

b08adc No.15172493


There's no doubt animations are a huge improvement, the point was the dice rolls, Neverwinter's worked right off the bat, from the beginning of the game, whereas Morrowind's took a long time to take off.

Also that webm, if you play the game like a buffoon of course it's going to look dumb, at least try to have some fun ffs.

0089f4 No.15175127

File: d4d74c91864a29b⋯.jpg (41.67 KB, 557x604, 557:604, 1529281118802.jpg)


10/10 post.

I like this idea.

000000 No.15175378


Well this asks for a wider game design discussion. But since it's /v/ all we got a "muh casuals " in fact trying to pander to non-existing true-hardcore-gaymers who prefer to get raped with barbed metal dildo instead of having fun

On practice it's a little more complicated, but while teens will be edgy "not casuals". We shall look deeper in the problem.

Top game might be easier in some way. For people who's still learning how to read I guess.

But bottom game is pants on head retarded and impossible to be taken seriously.

Why those NPCs always stand on the place 24|7 to give me hints? Why do I give a shit about treasure with "soiled pants of doom" and 13 dollars so much I'm willing to look for some fucking tree somewhere? And so on.

On top of that game is probably about removing another ancient evil boss so I can just run straight to that guy in 3 hours or so and get at least second best eq on my way. So if you slap some autistic cryptic shit on top it will probably be irrelevant anyway since nobody would care and it's usually neither necessary for game completion or interesting.

Why it was ok BACK in the day you ask? Well we had like 5 games. And when 6th one was out we played with it for hours on end like dog with a bone. Even if game in question was buggy lazily put together pos. That's one of reasons why some of "immortal classics of v" are in fact shitty "AAA" games of early 90s 00s or is straight from nintendo garbage can.

Oh and about casuals. They do prefer Morrowind over Skyrim any day. No it's not "harder" to read journal than follow compass. What is hard for them is to endure real-time combat with possibility of failture(unlike Morrowind) and make character builds.

05260e No.15175429


loll, what a fag. I bet you're not even 30 yet you lazy faggot.

d0d180 No.15175443

File: c1edd3ccb1f3fad⋯.jpg (106.54 KB, 223x222, 223:222, 9a65a87e32092f7f65c33771bb….jpg)


>it's not fun killing one enemy for an hour

oh great it's another one of those people who only played morrowind for 1 hour after probably picking the wrong weapon for their character's skillset

b4885c No.15175903

File: bdaa86a9ffbf176⋯.png (249.7 KB, 629x448, 629:448, Female Todd Howard.png)

eab353 No.15176052


what a waste of a good game mared by the terrible terrible idea to use flash for ui and egypt being boring as fug

576ec1 No.15177338

why is this blatantly untrue meme circlejerk thread still up?

0eb035 No.15180776

File: 14a085e4a94027a⋯.jpg (10.51 KB, 345x328, 345:328, 14a085e4a94027a401dd693bf3….jpg)


>bottom pic

none ant got time for play detective for a low level loot my niggas

6e81cc No.15182953


I know you got mostly insulted, but this is a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you get leashed on UI, you won't be able to immerse yourself. If you aren't immersed, you don't care about the world enough to be interested in the text enough to use the non-GPS-UIs. It's like takeout - you KNOW cooking yourself is better and if you did it enough you'd get good at it and have fun with it, but takeout is so easy and also kinda satisfies you - even if it doesn't actually taste good.

6e81cc No.15182972


Play Gothic 1 and 2. The controls are shit, the story is cheesy, but it got immersion down really well.

It doesn't have people standing around in the same spot, the NPCs giving you Quests actually makes sense in the story, directions are clear (or people just outright show you the way) etc. etc.

6e81cc No.15182987


>it is only a direction to the actual game portion of the game

You shouldn't have a portion of your game that isn't a game portion.

7aecb9 No.15186581


What a lazy fat faggot. I work at least 10 hours a day for 5 days a week, printing and standing on concrete all day in jikatabi. You don't see me bitching. What a piece of shit.

d3760d No.15186633

what if we placed high level loot on subtly hinted quests

and low shitty loot on tracked quests?

169faa No.15188066

File: 1be90b8c057ffa1⋯.jpg (215.5 KB, 1625x900, 65:36, mario_game_journalist.jpg)


Why not both? Have the shitty waypoints and UI elements toggled in options, by difficulty level, or by game mode.

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