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<BOARD RULES>
[ /agdg/ | Vidya Porn | Hentai Games | Retro Vidya | Contact ]

File: 23d3db65ed1e85a⋯.png (293.22 KB, 863x926, 863:926, too dumb to kameha.png)

211a0c  No.15792985

Why did AT himself turn Goku into a fucking retard? He was always a little slow but he's gone and turned him into more of a parody. The more I think about it, he's exactly like his parody counterparts outside of extremely rare moments now.

That's bad.

Or just discuss Budokai 3.

8215f6  No.15792987


8215f6  No.15792992

Oh and change AT to Akira Toriyama and delete the Budokai 3 line or you'll be instantly banned.


4847e1  No.15792999

Toriyama has always thought of Goku as being an asshole and a moron, going so far as to dislike the anime making him "too heroic."

Battle of Gods and everything that followed, possibly excluding the manga, is Akira Toriyama's true intentions for Dragon Ball.

>>15792987

Won't he just get banned for trying to discuss mainstream anime anyway?


3d1c88  No.15793010

WHERE'S THE VIDYA


211a0c  No.15793045

>>15792992

I'm not typing that bastard's whole name out.

Budokai 3 is regarded as the best DB vidya.


0972c6  No.15793053

>>15793045

budokai 1 was still my favorite


211a0c  No.15793065

>>15792994

I didn't need that.

Nobody needed that.


0ee56a  No.15793074

File: 8d12e3d4f8bcb85⋯.png (2.73 MB, 2048x1152, 16:9, 6a1c2a6c545d769f8b55c32f2c….png)

>>15792994

Say that to my face


de8609  No.15793088

>>15792994

Nah lol, I've seen his dick and it's considerably bigger than that, perhaps just about average.


4d303d  No.15793094

File: b1291e0a15ef11e⋯.jpg (76.53 KB, 480x611, 480:611, Allah forgive me but I wil….jpg)

>>15793045

>Budokai 3 is regarded as the best DB vidya.

FighterZ is a lot better to be honest. But both are better than TKB3. It is the definition of quantity over quality.

>>15792994

Wow that's so shocking.


d4b082  No.15793105

File: 4921c76b68adb42⋯.jpg (145.58 KB, 1300x724, 325:181, eliminate.jpg)

>>15793088

>I've seen his dick


f841ab  No.15793115

>>15793088

So about 2 extra centimeters.


f59d51  No.15793137

>>15793094

>these muslim dbz drawings

Who keeps making these? They're fucking hilarious.


003afc  No.15793150

>>15792985

Reported for gay retard acronyms.


2782ce  No.15793163

>>15793137

Goku and the gang are canonically followers of the true god allah, the quoran says so, inshallah!


f59d51  No.15793174

File: a9c8ca1010c566a⋯.jpg (90.16 KB, 608x668, 152:167, 1466207727442.jpg)

>>15793163

May allah (pbuh) forgive me.


83566f  No.15793175

I used to play Budokai 3 a lot. I remember being crushingly disappointed with how bad the Tenkaichi games were.


211a0c  No.15793191

>>15793175

Wouldnt have been so bad if they kept the cinematic finishers and stage destroying attacks.


8a76fe  No.15793204

delet this


4d303d  No.15793217

File: b2e62d9d253b681⋯.jpg (96.19 KB, 720x511, 720:511, Goku vs the zionists.jpg)

>>15793163

>>15793137

Look up a guy on instagram called Samir34; it's great shit.


83566f  No.15793224

>>15793191

I never cared for the style of gameplay. It's more "like the show" but less fun for it.


909d55  No.15793287

>>15793217

what does the one finger up mean again?

anything special?


2782ce  No.15793308

>>15793287

I dont know, but they usually raise it when they yell takbir or mention allah.


4d303d  No.15793314

File: 163499edb9e3074⋯.jpg (283.55 KB, 1080x1350, 4:5, How that one fight should ….jpg)

File: b1b15f7cd75c90a⋯.jpg (196.62 KB, 960x677, 960:677, PalestineZ.jpg)

>>15793308

>>15793287

Beats the shit out of me


c24a29  No.15793324

>>15793287

Something about there only being one god and that's allah. Basically, my god is the only true god and my type of desert religion is the only true one all the others suck.


a706f7  No.15793587

File: 3ac22d84bd6e119⋯.jpg (84.81 KB, 630x630, 1:1, 39322813_236316473746957_7….jpg)

Magnificent drawings though


f53cdf  No.15793598

And thread derailed into Muslim DBZ


3c0f6a  No.15793618

Is the Xenoverse2 game any good? I was thinking of getting that for my nephew but he only has a switch.


4847e1  No.15793631

>>15793618

It's basic, fun if you want to make a character and mix and match moves, bad if you want to play as real characters because the game penalizes you for doing so with lower chance of move/item/cosmetics drops.


2e5de0  No.15793639

>>15793618

Fun at first. Then kinda empty. It could stand to have more minigames and other shit to do. If you can get it cheap do it or just pirate it. I got it on sale and have enjoyed myself.


6e2b67  No.15793666

>>15792985

Goku was literally dropped on his head as a baby. He is a literal retard and his superpower is basically he's an autistic savant like Rain Man only instead of counting toothpicks he's really good at copying martial arts techniques. Goku really doesn't have much more of a personality besides being retarded. All of his traits revolve around it.

>>15793094

Dragon Ball Z Budokai Tenkaichi 3 is my favorite, specifically the Wii version, because it's the only Wii game where I ever actually had more fun with the motion controls. It's stupid, and I know the people online would never use them, but it's fun to raise your hands over your head to charge and throw a Spirit Bomb.

Frankly, I don't want a real Dragon Ball fighting game. Fighting games need to have a semblance of balance to be good, and if there is a semblance of balance, then it isn't Dragon Ball. What I want is a Dragon Ball simulator, and Tenkaichi Budokai 3 did that best. Xenoverse 2 was alright in some other regards, but motion controls were more fun than the team mechanics introduced with Battle of Z.


4c246f  No.15793733

File: aa1eee670f2caad⋯.webm (15.29 MB, 720x480, 3:2, 21st Tenkaichi Budokai En….webm)

DBZ is gay shit, when are we going to get an ogDB fighting game? There are way more cool characters to pick from who have more techniques than 'colored energy blast' and 'transform to stronger form'


88ed19  No.15793739

>>15793618

It's an action rpg pretending to be a fighting game most of the time. Easy enough to enjoy for a kid, but don't go in expecting much depth. The metric ton of side content makes it trivial to overlevel and blaze through. They also added some shitty mtx mode with figurines, but that's contained to its own little shitty island separate from the main game. It's more of a game for people that want the fighting of dbz, but don't want to put in the effort of learning fighting games beyond spamming op moves.


4fcbf1  No.15793770

Goku isnt a moron

Hes supposed to be aloof

He does some crazy smart shit sometimes in the manga lol


d7287e  No.15793809

File: 6568d3fb43a5c37⋯.png (395.06 KB, 895x665, 179:133, married_life.PNG)

Kinda sucks more when you realize that DB spent 150+ chapters developing Goku as a child. Even though there wasn't too much character development in DBZ (he was roughly the same IMO. Sure, he learned to control his rage but that isn't really character development). It stings more to know that, for cheap comedy, they turned him into an idiot. I liked DB Super but it was definitely not as exciting/intense as DB/DBZ

Reminds me a lot of what happened to Homer in the Simpsons.


7583a2  No.15793821

File: 999ac1723d67264⋯.gif (1006.58 KB, 273x429, 7:11, Nothing personell kid.gif)

>>15792985

I like how he was the villain in DBS though and im not talking about the "unsheathes pink scythe" doppelganger.


76d190  No.15793902

File: f3577a7b5783c65⋯.jpeg (524.49 KB, 640x455, 128:91, 65E1A6B3-EBF5-4B45-8609-D….jpeg)

>>15793666

Listen Satan, I understand that that’s a good formula for a dragon ball z game, but I’m kind of tired of it. It’s nice just having a good video game with db aesthetics for once.

>>15793587

They actually are good drawings. The subject matter is just fucking hilarious. Look at this shit, they aren’t just Muslim, but also drug dealers.

>>15793809

They don’t call it dragon ball simpsons for nothing.

Also I thought we stopped listening to Toriyama awhile ago. He’s got Alzheimer's or something.


3127a6  No.15794178

>>15793902

>He’s got Alzheimer's or something.

It's more that he just never really cared that strongly. Dragon Ball was a gag kung-fu manga, loosely based on Journey to the West, where he just made up shit as he went along. I'm sure he never expected it to take off like it did, and he never cared about it enough to remember everything about it one or two decades after he wrote it.


0a2105  No.15794372

File: 7939098978c1e5c⋯.jpg (39.78 KB, 600x450, 4:3, 822ebf4ca3c98abb50f31585af….jpg)

>>15794178

>and he never cared about it enough to remember everything about it one or two decades after he wrote it.

That reminds me.

http://archive.is/NMGJs

>https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2014-09-16/mitsuru-adachi-cant-tell-his-own-characters-apart/.78792


d9e299  No.15794846

>>15793217

>>15793094

>>15793314

>>15793587

>>15793902

Aren't cartoons considered haram in Islam unless they're used for teaching children?


2a9acc  No.15794862

>>15794846

Well technically you can get away with it saying that it doesn't represent a real person, and so it doesn't try to represent of something Allah's creation, but then again it's sand niggers and so they'd still find a way to kill each other over it.


c12b2a  No.15794945

>>15793902

>Samir34 fucking everywhere

I think this guy might just be autistic.


b53bed  No.15794954

File: 72b010f52ea64d8⋯.webm (4.74 MB, 1920x1080, 16:9, Play Budokai 3 lol.webm)

File: 8a0a559ce4dc2a0⋯.png (434.8 KB, 639x355, 9:5, ClipboardImage.png)

>>15793045

>Budokai 3 is regarded as the best DB vidya

Infinite world is a straight improvement on the B3 combat though and even then it's only good when comparing it to the rest of the trash that is anime licensed games.

FighterZ though blows even that out the fucking water, it's an actual fighter by a dev team who makes fighters to make a solid one with characters from the license, if Budokai 3 or Infinite world or any other of the DIMPs games were made today they'd be torn to shit for being buggy broken messes, forgotten in a week and you'd never hear of them again.


7f900a  No.15794960

>>15792985

Post this on /tv/, both /a/ and /v/ are pozzed.

Mark is triggered by things he does not like.


c12b2a  No.15794964

>>15794960

And the vols on /tv/ aren't?


d7287e  No.15794974

>>15793053

unparalleled cinematics, great models, fluid fighting system and was and is the only DBZ game to make you feel goku's rage against frieza imo. The other games feel soulless.


c12b2a  No.15794979

>>15794974

Are you talking about Budokai 1?


b7dafb  No.15794980

>>15794960

gahoole is a tranny


7f900a  No.15794988

>>15794980

dup gahoole btfo


d7287e  No.15795007

File: 2922bb9f4ae44b7⋯.png (853.96 KB, 1058x806, 529:403, pic1.PNG)


76d190  No.15795021

File: a3d595bfa33411c⋯.png (407.67 KB, 449x437, 449:437, Dragon Ball gb games.png)

>>15794954

Even Legacy of Goku 2 was more enjoyable as a video game.

>>15794945

>Draws Islamic gangster DBZ fanart by hand

Naw he's fine.

>>15794974

I tried the trilogy again a couple weeks ago and they were all pretty bland. 2 at least had something to mix it up with the board game and fusions everywhere, but nobody talks about it for some reason.


9c0f40  No.15795068


0a2105  No.15795323

>>15792999

>Battle of Gods and everything that followed, possibly excluding the manga, is Akira Toriyama's true intentions for Dragon Ball.

His intention was to collect royalties by marketing a product Jump and Toei wanted dishit


289baf  No.15795615

This is going to be an odd question, but outside of the obvious presence of Kikuchi’s score in it, does DBZ: Sparking! METEOR (The Japanese version of Budokai Tenkaichi 3) have better sound quality than the western releases of the game? It sounds like the voice files were compressed to hell and back in the US version, likely done in order to easily squeeze the English and Japanese voice sets into one disc. It’s also kind of grating as hell when combined with Atari’s reuse of early Budokai-era quotes, which sound rough due to Funi’s VAs being new to DBZ at that time.

I assume that METEOR doesn’t have the English dub in it, so does that mean it mught have higher quality audio than BT3?


1a2d4d  No.15795642

File: c7ea4c23a206d10⋯.png (4.83 MB, 1753x1236, 1753:1236, ClipboardImage.png)

>>15793902

FREE CHECHNYA


b7dafb  No.15795659

File: ef216ba9de1fab4⋯.png (929.54 KB, 934x418, 467:209, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 346b0656e7bbce2⋯.mp4 (9.02 MB, 854x480, 427:240, dbo-trailer.mp4)

>>15795021

Play these instead, they're also about the only good dragon ball.


99c5cf  No.15795678

File: 008dcf6ddd5f487⋯.jpg (13.53 KB, 350x350, 1:1, 008dcf6ddd5f4872e9e1e3a64a….jpg)

>>15793902

>>15794954

>>15795642

Serious question. If you put Shadman and Samir34 in the same room would they fight or fuck?


6c5b3b  No.15795685

>>15794846

>>15794862

Yes, but

>sandnigger kids watch anime

>elders tell them to cut that shit out

>kids keep doing it

>elders give up and find an excuse

A rare example of Islam trying to work with the situation instead of blow it up.


90008c  No.15795728

>>15792985

Which is weird..I'm watching the old anime and rereading the manga, he's not retarded, he just lives in the mountain for 14 years, cut off from other human contact (the other human before Bulma was his grandpa….who he accidentally killed). For some reason, Super ratchet up Goku being a dumbass

Incidentally, it's hard to pay attention to Super….when you know everyone's fine and dandy thanks to the 10 year timeskip ending in the original. So your universe destroying tourney of power just became bloody pointless. At least it expands the universe a bit but really, how can you top "Pink Godslaying, Galaxy Destroying, People Eating Eldritch Abomination"?


90008c  No.15795736

>>15793045

Still prefer Tenkaichi 3 though. I like 2 too but 2's kinda easy for me what with the Z-Items being a huge advantage..


828a92  No.15795747

>>15794846

>>15794862

>>15795685

He gets away with drawing autistic DBZ fanart by not living in shitholes he idolizes(he most likely leeches of France).


910b70  No.15796013

Do we need 2 identical threads?

>>15759560


91fe27  No.15796272

File: 00b6acd9f72605e⋯.jpg (42.29 KB, 720x536, 90:67, Allahu_Akbar.jpg)

>>15795685

>A rare example of Islam trying to work with the situation instead of blow it up.

Imagine autistic suicide bomber thinking that he is Vegeta. forgetting that he didn't even kill Majin Buu with that attack

>>15795747

>He gets away with drawing autistic DBZ fanart by not living in shitholes he idolizes(he most likely leeches of France).

You mean like Latuff?


f1cea8  No.15796294

>>15793045

>Budokai 3 is regarded as the best DB vidya.

<Play Budokai 3

<Have no fucking idea what's happening

<Have no idea who has what kind of combos

<Moves feels disjointed as fuck

>Play Fighterz

>Completely understand how shit works even while getting the snot beat out of you

Yeah sure, Budokai is the best.


0a2105  No.15796316

>>15796294

<Have no idea who has what kind of combos

Simple, everyone literally punches the same.


2cdcda  No.15796373

>>15796294

>Have no idea who has what kind of combo

Dude…how fucking hard it is for you to press the fucking Start and look at an option that says "Skill List"? I mean, really?


91d5d4  No.15796654

>>15796013

Anon, we’ve been having seperate Dragon Ball /v/ and Dragon Ball general threads since January. Its an MMO game called Dragon Universe made in BYOND or whatever the lead developer now calls it so he can hide from copyright strikes, and the playerbase from the threads is working on their own game called Dragon Ball Climax.


69bce7  No.15796710

>Origin story of character is hitting his head as a child and getting extreme behaviour altering brain damage.

Reminder: Vegeta, prince of all saiyans is the true hero who never gives up and unlike goku who had to be trained by whis for UI pulled Super Blue 2 out of his ass from sheer pride and love of his family alone.


f7d2bb  No.15796809

>>15793045

<Budokai 3 is regarded as the best DB vidya.

>not any of the DB fightans on SNES

get back to class underage b& faggot


425a5a  No.15796862

>>15796710

>true hero

>Vegeta

Reminder he died at the hands of Freezer, and DB ends with the latter one dying alongside Goku in the green nigger planet


9915ce  No.15798379

Invidious embed. Click thumbnail to play.

Dragon Ball Zenkai Battle is the best 3D DB game.

Prove me wrong

<2-on-2 team battles or 4-player free-for-all

<unique perks for every character (Trunks has his sword which guard breaks. Turles plants seeds of the tree of might; receives big buff upon eating fruit. Janemba attacks and warps using his portal thingy, etc.)

<ki is required for dashing and replenishes slowly on its own. charging leaves you wide open and drains health to deter spammers

<tension gauge mechanic which affects damage rewards good performances and participation and helps further deter spammers

<you can coordinate with another person to pull off combination attacks

<no super-armor; every attack is interruptible (unlike shitnoverse)

<no vanish spam like in shitnoverse

<no press circle to vanish get-out-of-jail-free bullshit

Shame the west got the embarrassing shitshow that was Battle of Z instead


99d47c  No.15798390

File: 5b172b6fab5b620⋯.jpg (32.83 KB, 640x379, 640:379, VxCY9Gg_d.jpg)

>Goku and Vegeta need to fuse and go blue in order to kick Brolys ass

Pathetic


ad7e8d  No.15798415

File: 9d20e1a674e3837⋯.gif (702.72 KB, 500x375, 4:3, vegetaslap.gif)

>>15798389

>>15798391

>>15798394

>>15798395

>>15798398

Your charts are not, have not, and will never be canon. No matter how much you spam these fucking charts none of this shit has ever been canon you dumb spic retard.


93bad2  No.15798421

File: d71433ce1d217c5⋯.jpg (4.27 MB, 1507x2094, 1507:2094, all.jpg)

>>15798415

They are more canon than nu-DB cancer, subfag/superfag.


26fb01  No.15798423

>>15798390

Way less pathetic than the first Broly movie, and actually more sensical.

The first Broly movie had them completely torn apart by Broly consistently, and then plot makes them win for no reason with a single punch after inflicting no damage at all on him previously.


ad7e8d  No.15798425

File: 7aabd0fad14976d⋯.jpg (47.39 KB, 707x480, 707:480, Cooler 2.jpg)

>>15798421

>oy vey he called out my FANCHARTS! I better call him a DBSfag since only they hate my glorious FANCHARTS!


93bad2  No.15798429

>>15798425

Super/GT will never be canon, deal with it.


af6bb9  No.15798432

>>15798390

how is this pathetic


26fb01  No.15798438

>>15798421

>"More canon"

Canonical is a binary definition, there's no in between.

If you have to go by comparisons, then you're not really arguing him his point. You're agreeing they're not canon, and you're just saying they make more sense to you than the other thing. In other words, you're not saying anything.


5d8b51  No.15798442

The entirety of Super is a parody of Z. Z was okay but uninspired compared to the original series, which was cool as fuck, filled with variety and ended on a high note, not to mention the extremely cute episode of Goku and young Chichi going on an adventure together. Even in Z, some of the characters are parodies of what they were in Dragon Ball. I'm surprised it took you this long to notice.


ad7e8d  No.15798444

File: 9adb8f7ee727c45⋯.png (137.4 KB, 545x298, 545:298, Angry Nigger.png)

>>15798429

>keeps doubling down

>never once have I mentioned GT

You gay retard power level masturbation charts aren't canon.


99d47c  No.15798450

>>15798423

>>15798432

It's pathetic because they need to fuse AND go blue for someone who's basically just a normal super saiyan.


26fb01  No.15798451

>>15798442

>Even in Z, some of the characters are parodies of what they were in Dragon Ball

Such as?

>The entirety of Super is a parody of Z

Not everything. Some things are clearly watered down versions, Flanderizations or uninspired attempts at doing the thing Z was doing but failing miserable. Muten Roshi, for instance, was likeable and charming, but Super just made him bland and exaggerated, as if he's acting out the role of perv because he feels he has to, without any of the charm or humor.


93bad2  No.15798461

>>15798451

Not him but from the top of my head:

Hercule = rehash of Pamput

Android #16 = rehash of Android 8

Majin Buu = rehash of Buyon


9eb5e1  No.15798466

File: d07a780ea067aa8⋯.webm (78.05 KB, 480x480, 1:1, IA here.webm)


c9c973  No.15798479

>>15795678

They would create unspeakable works of horror and autism


9eb5e1  No.15798480

>>15798451

>>15798442

The Manga is better


26fb01  No.15798481

>>15798450

Do you feel pathetic because you'll never be able to play tennis as well as Federer, or run as fast as the Usain Bolt nigger, or be as good of a chess player as Gasparov?

I get your point, but Broly is supposed to be the archetypal unreachable talent monster that he is. At least from what the trailer shows they're defeating him with overwhelming power, which makes sense, as opposed to the nonsensical thing from the first Broly movie.

>>15798461

Rehashes aren't parodies.


5d8b51  No.15798482

>>15798451

Chichi is literally just an annoying housewife even though the end of DB suggested she might be a less annoying female companion alternative to Bulma. Krillin turns into a joke who dies just to piss Goku off and drive his power level up, even though they were rivals. Same with Yamcha and pretty much all of Goku's former contemporaries. There was no reason to cast all of those likeable characters to the wayside. Sure we got some decent characters to replace them – Vegeta for instance – but it still is confusing and unnecessary.


af6bb9  No.15798489

>>15798450

ok just checking. i had a suspicion you were retarded and now i know. friendly reminder for all to ask stupid people to defend themselves to confirm their stupidity.


93bad2  No.15798492

>>15798481

They're the same concepts that Toriyama likes to do from time to time.

Namek saga because he was interested in science-fiction at the time.

Android saga because he was interested in the Terminator movie.

Buu saga because he wanted to scratch that magical/comedy DB itch.


c4e810  No.15798496

>>15792985

Super is officially liscensed fanfiction, nothing more.


5d8b51  No.15798501

>>15798480

I'm aware of that. DB Kai even makes that apparent.


26fb01  No.15798510

Invidious embed. Click thumbnail to play.

>>15798480

Maybe. But it's also worse then the Toriyama manga

>>15798482

Those are letdowns/bad character designs/bad development/etc, not parodies. I get your point that they're "parodies" in the ironic sense of the word where they have nothing to do with their previous selves and are just empty husks now, but your post seemed to suggest you were talking about the actual meaning of the word "parody".

>>15798492

>Namek saga because he was interested in science-fiction at the time.

He was also interested in land sharks at the time.


93bad2  No.15798519

>>15798482

Chi-Chi is pure.

>Traditional housewife

>Cleans, cooks and takes care of children

>Passionate missionary position with leglock

And we can thank her for Gohan's badass rage bursts which he inherited from his mom.


4c246f  No.15798521

>>15798423

Sounds like every arc of DBZ


5d8b51  No.15798530

>>15798519

She is pure, I agree, but my point is that she's reduced to more of a cliche than anything. I'd have liked to see her adventuring in the first arc for the show then she could be a stay-at-home mom, seems like it might have made more sense. Maybe have a scene where Goku nearly dies while she is present which makes her complex against training Gohan to fight more meaningful.


26fb01  No.15798536

>>15798521

For instance?

I recall every big fight being grueling, challenging and slow. Friezer/Androids/every Cell form/every Majin Buu form didn't go down quickly.

The only one that sort of went down with a single strike was Raditz, but Piccolo needing time to charge his attack was a big point in the fight. And it ended up killing Goku in the process as well.

Broly's movie wasn't like that at all. If they had tried a single punch with everyone's ki from the beginning, it'd have been over quite quickly.


93bad2  No.15798540

>>15798530

Toriyama fucked up by not having Gohan replace Goku as the MC after the Cell saga.

Apparently the jap audience threatened Toriyama 'cause they wanted the orange hillbilly back. Goku's character arc was finished, he peaked at Namek and stopped being interesting after that.


5d8b51  No.15798548

>>15798540

I couldn't agree more, Gohan becoming a pussy again after Cell so he could be a joke superhero character was depressing. Hell, he basically achieved the same status as Krillin/Yamcha/etc. And he's the son of the MC for fuck's sake. Had the perfect rite.of passage moment and everything.


93bad2  No.15798556

>>15798548

Ultimate/Mystic Gohan is the strongest character by the end of DBZ, far ahead of even SSJ3 Goku or SSJ3 Gotenks.

But we never really "feel" that impact besides Gohan toying with Super Buu for a bit before messing up so Toriyama could go back to the regularly scheduled Goku+Vegeta show.

It's just terrible writing all around.


26fb01  No.15798560

>>15798540

Gohan wouldn't have worked as a main character. He's boring, he didn't go through all the training his dad went through, so he feels a bit cheaper, he doesn't have any humor to his character at all, he has no motivations for fighting all aside from protecting Earth, he doesn't even have interesting interactions with other characters aside from Piccolo, he has no charisma. All he had going for was character development, which peaked during the Cell fight. After that, there was nothing Toriyama could think of doing with his character.


3127a6  No.15798561

>>15796710

>Vegeta

>cried like a bitch to Freeza

>died like a bitch to Freeza

>fucked everything up by letting Cell absorb 18

>fucked everything up again by trying ineffective tard rage on Cell

>fucked everything up again by intentionally going Majin

>killed himself to no effect

>nearly secondarily fucked everything up when Goku purposely held back to give him a chance at fighting Kid Buu

>could barely stand against Kid Buu and needed Goku to do all the work

>the true hero

>>15798450

>It's pathetic because they need to fuse AND go blue for someone who's basically just a normal super saiyan.

You seem to be forgetting that Saiyans are the most OP race ever, according to all observation. Goku has remained at the top because he has some kind of bullshit innate talent that's just better than everyone else's. Broly is that bullshit innate talent and power magnified. They're basically fighting an angrier, inherently superior Goku.


93bad2  No.15798589

>>15798561

Vegeta has the best K/D ratio compared to anyone else.

On Namek alone, he wiped out all of Frieza's forces. This isn't even counting the Garlic Jr. arc where Vegeta went on a rampage in space destroying Frieza's empire remnants.


3127a6  No.15798606

>>15798589

>On Namek alone, he wiped out all of Frieza's forces.

And then he needed Goku to beat up the Ginyu Force for him.

>This isn't even counting the Garlic Jr. arc where Vegeta went on a rampage in space destroying Frieza's empire remnants.

Aside from the extremely non-canon state of that arc, Vegeta pulling a Musou on a bunch of mooks is hardly an achievement. If someone poisoned an ant bed, would you also count that? Quality of kills counts more than quantity, in this series, and Vegeta only has a few of those.


93bad2  No.15798635

>>15798606

>saved Goku's life against Android #19

>saved Gohan and Krillin's life numerous times on Namek

>is responsible for Gohan winning the beam struggle vs Cell


4c246f  No.15798640

>>15798536

Well, maybe not that exactly. Pretty much all the fights in DBZ are entirely one-sided beat downs with each character getting a power-up midfight so they can turn the tables and deliver a one-sided beat down before the enemy powers up again so that he can not be touched and thus beat them down again.

The closest to the Broly movie would probably be when they were fighting Nappa. It was non-stop 'HERE IS MY STRONGEST ATTACK, OH NO IT IS COMPLETELY INEFFECTIVE.' And then Goku shows up and slaps his shit almost immediately. They couldn't even let the other characters defeat him or do any real damage.


3127a6  No.15798643

>>15798635

>is responsible for Gohan winning the beam struggle vs Cell

He wouldn't have needed to if it wasn't for the tard rage he pulled like I previously mentioned. You don't get commendations for cleaning up your own mess.


3127a6  No.15798651

>>15798640

>It was non-stop 'HERE IS MY STRONGEST ATTACK, OH NO IT IS COMPLETELY INEFFECTIVE.'

Actually, Krillin would have decapitated him if Vegeta yell at Nappa.


93bad2  No.15798668

>>15798643

You mean like how Vegeta's son from the future had to clean up Goku's mess?


4c246f  No.15798680

>>15798651

So, completely ineffective


3127a6  No.15798716

>>15798668

>You mean like how Vegeta's son from the future had to clean up Goku's mess?

If Goku is responsible for that mess, then Vegeta is responsible for the entire mess of Freeza being on Namek, Goku getting the heart disease in the first place, and Cell even existing. And Vegeta doesn't get cred for a son he was an absent father of.


072eb0  No.15798737

>>15798589

>Wiped out Frieza's forces

>The dumb one of the Ginyu force made Vegeta his bitch

>Kill steals from Goku

Yeah….best K/D ratio there.


93bad2  No.15798748

>>15798737

>Kill steals from Goku

Goku wasn't intending to kill them in the first place, so it wasn't a steal.

Vegeta killed them, period.


072eb0  No.15798750

>>15798668

Oh you mean, Trunks made it worst. Instead of just 17 and 18, Dr. Gero saw Trunks and made the energy absorption device hence 19 and 20…oh and don't forget Cell, who jumped a Trunks and time traveled back to the past. So yeah..instead of just 17 and 18….Future Trunks just made things worse.


ad7e8d  No.15798760

>>15798750

>Future Trunks just made things worse.

Like father like son.


3127a6  No.15798768

>>15798680

Not in the way you were implying, though. Hell, it wasn't even "completely", considering it gave Nappa a decent cut that would have probably resulted in a scar. While everyone else's attack hit, and Nappa just shrugged them off, Krillin's would have straight up ended the fight there, had Vegeta not intervened.

>>15798748

>Vegeta killed them, period.

Which is hardly an accomplishment, when, by that point, they were so broken they would probably have died in a few hours, anyway. Vegeta did the equivalent of killing hospital patients.

>>15798750

Not to mention, Trunks did one effective thing, which was give Goku the healing medicine. He didn't help take out any of the androids/cyborgs, didn't stop Cell from absorbing 18, couldn't take out Cell afterward, and got killed. In fact, had he not come back after giving Goku the medicine, he wouldn't have gotten killed, and Vegeta wouldn't have caused Gohan to get a broken arm.


4c246f  No.15798826

>>15798768

>Hey, you know that guy who is otherwise worthless in a real fight?

>He's got an attack that can 1-hit KO just about any foe.

>Only thing is it will never produce any meaningful results

Yeah, that's what I wanna see. A bunch of retards who are comparatively worthless stand around and be worthless while they wait for someone who can actually make progress. That's a genius idea for a show.

How is it that DBZ gets any praise at all? It's horribly written and takes itself way too seriously for what it is. Even goofy shit like Jojo has way better fights, and it is all bullshit and asspull.


072eb0  No.15798833

>>15798826

Yeah..it's not like JoJo had folks standing around being worthless or anything.


91fe27  No.15798951

>>15798510

>Dragon Ball Youtubers

<Hey guys! Let me defend this clear case of bad writing in the latest episode/movie with more bullshit that the writers clearly didn't intended.

<Hey guys! Let speculate about how this predictable arc is going to end.

<Hey guys! Let me shill my worthless fanfics as what-if videos.

With all the ad and Patron money, why would these fags not defend DBS anime. The manga genuinely upset a lot of people by making certain characters less strong even if it meant everyone else was also weaker.


26fb01  No.15799065

>>15798951

I don't know if you're simply ranting about youtubers tangentially, but this particular video is bashing the Super manga and defending the original.


c12b2a  No.15799074

>>15798951

Can you fucking believe some of these assholes that treat power level arguments like serious goddamn debates? I hesitate to even post that shit here.


c12b2a  No.15799086

>>15798450

Broly's power is maximum, you fucking retard. The amount of destruction he can inflict is absolutely insane, dude destroys entire GALAXIES in days. He actually does what everyone memes about DBZ characters being able to do.


91fe27  No.15799252

File: bcd78a7cf770b0a⋯.png (260.2 KB, 433x426, 433:426, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 14b6837cebb5cbc⋯.jpg (63.1 KB, 500x477, 500:477, Best_Version_of_RoF.jpg)

File: f8d78e5398c7e67⋯.jpg (91.67 KB, 1280x720, 16:9, calm mind and perfect ki c….jpg)

File: e3a479bada4f64a⋯.png (842.6 KB, 760x480, 19:12, calm mind and perfect ki c….png)

File: 5a4d08f58088c0b⋯.png (478.6 KB, 521x380, 521:380, calm mind and fuck it.png)

>>15799065

The DBS fanbase is divided by those who like the anime and those who like the manga. The anime fans are bigger and the manga for making characters like Hit not as strong as SSJB+KK Goku or someshit so they try to find other reasons which can be also applied to the anime to shit on the manga. I'm bias; because despite thinking both are bad, the manga is shorter. It had the best version of RoF.

>>15799074

Power level fags are way better than these faggots. People trying to defend shit like 3 of SSJG Goku's and Beerus' punches colliding will destroy the Universe but Goku and Vegeta can freely use SSJB (which is stronger than SSJG). This isn't a throw way line because it was brought up as far as ToP. There is also the stupid ray-gun nearly killing SSJB Goku. The usually excuse SSJB relies on calm mind and perfect ki control but the show keeps showing them powering up when they get angry.


ad7e8d  No.15799273

>>15799252

The ray gun was because Goku lets his guard down often.

The punches destroying the universe thing was pure fucking bullshit though.


3127a6  No.15799326

>>15799273

>The punches destroying the universe thing was pure fucking bullshit though.

Honestly, I thought they were going to use that as a gag to explain how Shin and Kibito separated. Super had so many good comedy opportunities that never got capitalized on.


0a2105  No.15799442

>>15799326

>Super had so many good comedy opportunities that never got capitalized on.

That's because Super isn't funny moreso than a badly written joke.


211a0c  No.15799446

>>15795736

T3 was decent.


211a0c  No.15799458

>>15798833

Tien and Yamcha should have just been permakilled around the start of the cell saga.


9810b4  No.15799552

File: 6170e375e1df2ef⋯.jpg (43.32 KB, 503x394, 503:394, Goku-powering-up-dbz-rampa….jpg)

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

top tier dialogue


7c5c08  No.15799566

>>15799552

>watching a Shonen for the dialogue.

I don’t know what you were expecting.


4b0373  No.15799598

>>15799552

Yeah…not like any other anime had repetitive sound or anything.


9915ce  No.15799840

>>15795736

Tenkaichi 2 sucks ass because of the unavoidable rush supers, especially the ones that home in and can be steered, on top of not using any ki if they don't connect. Either you time it right and vanish (unreliable), use a blast 1 (if your char has a barrier skill), or you lose an entire life bar (super guard has slow startup iirc and sidesteps are wonky). BT3 lets you block them normally, but you still get guard broken, which is retarded.

The BT series in general will never be good because of the tap-block-to-avoid-almost-everything gimmick that can be used anytime without drawbacks. And the addition of Z-counters in BT3 was just as, if not more retarded. And then there's the insufferable super-armor gimmick that forces you to use specific characters or waste a potara slot.


072eb0  No.15799920

>>15799840

You also forgot that Dragon Ball era characters would immediately fall to the ground if stop too long in midair. And you can't avoid rush…but you could rush back. Reason why I say the Z-Items in BT2 is broken is that you could have guys do supers at half required bar (Tenkaichi nerfed the item so that it eats up one life bar at the start) and that each item takes one slot so you could top load a guy with high level stat items PLUS Halo or Majin Seal.


6e2b67  No.15801624

>>15798750

Trunks made things worse in a lot of ways, but overall made things better. Everyone is still alive after, even though they ended up having more powerful villains to fight. Granted, this ended up eventually resulting in his entire timeline being erased, but the main timeline was better off.

>>15798826

The best parts of Dragon Ball are when Goku isn't even around. This starts in the Piccolo saga, when the more interesting part is Roshi training Tenshinhan, and continues through the entire rest of the series. The best part of the Saiyan saga, Piccolo training Gohan, is all off panel in the manga. But at least after we get Gohan, Krillin, Bulma, and Vegeta on Namek, which is all cool. Then Goku is sick for a good chunk of the Android arc, and he's dead for most of the Buu arc. Those are the good parts.

>>15799252

>People trying to defend shit like 3 of SSJG Goku's and Beerus' punches colliding will destroy the Universe but Goku and Vegeta can freely use SSJB (which is stronger than SSJG).

Beerus was strong enough to absorb the energy so the impact didn't destroy the universe. Presumably by the next time the story picks up, Goku and Vegeta are strong enough to do this as well.

>The usually excuse SSJB relies on calm mind and perfect ki control but the show keeps showing them powering up when they get angry.

It doesn't rely on it, but it allows it.

>>15799458

I like that at the end of the Cell saga Tenshinhan says that, now that the world seems to be safe, this will probably be the last time he sees any of the rest of the group. They actually remembered that Tenshinhan isn't really their friend, he's basically just a work acquaintance. And it's true. He's not their friend, so he doesn't go to the tournament with them in the next arc, since that was just supposed to be a fun thing for them to do as friends. He only makes a brief cameo once everyone on earth is getting killed.


5b8fd1  No.15801630

>He was always a little slow but he's gone and turned him into more of a parody

Dragon Ball itself was a parody from the very beginning, and Goku was a mega retard from the very beginning as well. The DBZ anime adaptation and especially the English translators obliterated his character to appeal to little kids more.


4040fa  No.15801661

>>15801624

>They actually remembered that Tenshinhan isn't really their friend, he's basically just a work acquaintance.

I don't see how that's true, Tien spends a ton of time at Kami House with Roshi and Yamcha.


6e2b67  No.15801706

>>15801661

>I don't see how that's true, Tien spends a ton of time at Kami House with Roshi and Yamcha.

Not really. He and Chaotzu trained with Yamcha and Krillin for a bit but then went off to live his own life. He was never really close with Goku, and though he trained with Yamcha and Krillin he never really considered himself a part of the Turtle School. He's on good terms with everybody, but his past and his lifestyle results in them never really being close.


59d5d9  No.15802145

File: 66b3e11f5696941⋯.png (642.33 KB, 526x511, 526:511, 66b3e11f56969415c5e27bc6b9….png)

>>15801624

<Trying this hard to rationalize a garbage comic written by a senile nip


6e2b67  No.15802168

>>15802145

>implying Toriyama actually writes Super


9499f9  No.15802197

Because DragonBall Z completely fucked the tone of the series overseas.

This is also why (mostly) that GT is seen as shit.


0a2105  No.15802240

>>15802168

He's probably enough of a shitskin to believe he did.


6e2b67  No.15802263

>>15802240

I'm the guy being criticized. Never implied Toriyama writes Super. Just pointing out obvious things in the story. Implying that it's "trying hard" to understand Dragon Ball Super of all things just implies you're a retard. You have to be dumber than Goku to not be able to understand Dragon Ball, especially Super.


176b80  No.15802267

Invidious embed. Click thumbnail to play.

>>15799552

>>15799566

>>15799598

behold the complexity of araki's narrative technique


0a2105  No.15802276

>>15802263

Sorry, I'm distraught right now so I didn't notice your quip.


4c246f  No.15802413

>>15801624

>Gohan, Krillin, Bulma, and Vegeta on Namek, which is all cool

Too bad there is nothing that makes Namek as a setting remotely interesting. It's a big space wasteland with a lot of water, a lot of grass, and a lot of rock. This is also the point in the series where it begins to take forever for anything at all to develop, and where the fights really go downhill.


0a2105  No.15802419

>>15802413

> This is also the point in the series where it begins to take forever for anything at all to develop, and where the fights really go downhill.

Protip, don't watch Toei anime adaptions.


4f48e7  No.15802445

>>15802267

that's one of the worst parts in one of the worst series (if we consider season three part 1 & 2 as two separate series)


0fbabf  No.15802664

>>15801624

>Granted, this ended up eventually resulting in his entire timeline being erased

Not according to Super, which takes the lead from all the games and shit and just makes it a multiverse instead of a back to the future style single timeline

This also retcons the time machine into something that can cross timelines entirely, not just go back and forth, so that could put parts of the android saga into question anyway

>Presumably by the next time the story picks up, Goku and Vegeta are strong enough to do this as well.

wew

They've long since retconned all that good shit from the movies because blue became the more well known thing and they didn't want to ditch their biggest marketing tool, and instead introduced a new endgame thing to work towards instead that would be more hype

In a series with spotty consistency to begin with, Super has legitimately thrown it out the fucking window


93bad2  No.15802896

File: fd2fd58fe90ef4b⋯.png (963.61 KB, 965x777, 965:777, USSJ.png)

Best Super Saiyan transformation coming through.

USSJ > SSJ2 > SSJ > SSJ3 > SSJ4 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SJW nu-DB hair palette swaps


211a0c  No.15802914

>>15802896

SSJ God isn't terrible.

Blue never should have been a thing though.


0fbabf  No.15802958

>>15802896

>Muscle meme at the top

>The trash fire that is 3 at all better than 4, the thematic culmination of everything the entire series was leading up to

>Palette swaps are so much worse than everything else, yet slight haircut form is better than the original

What the fuck is wrong with you


211a0c  No.15802967

I just realized something. Goku was willing to murder people as a kid. How many RR Army grunts did he kill?


3127a6  No.15802970

>>15802896

>derides God and Blue for being palette swaps

>considers a transformation that's not even as much as a palette swap to be second best

You're that faggot who thinks DBZ is the best thing ever and considers it an epitome of masculinity, aren't you?


211a0c  No.15802979

>>15802958

4 is horrid.

God is better than 4.

3 is ass though.

2 was a more interesting spectacle until buu shit.


93bad2  No.15802984

>>15802967

>How many RR Army grunts did he kill?

Enough to make a RR scientist so butthurt it propelled him to spend years in a cave making robots that are more powerful than a galactic tyrant for the sole purpose of killing Goku.


211a0c  No.15802988

>>15802970

>not even as much as a palette swap

That was Goku during the buu shit, compare SSJ1 and 2 Gohan in the cell games. It was a proper transformation until buu shit.


211a0c  No.15802993

>>15802984

Among the grunts Goku killed Gero's son too.


93bad2  No.15802999

>>15802970

>>15802988

SSJ2 = spikier hair and electricity sparks


211a0c  No.15803009

>>15802999

electricity sparks are pretty damn cool, there's also the personality change, or there was until the buu shit.


0fbabf  No.15803029

>>15802979

>4 is horrid

It's a legitimate transformation that actually leans into characteristics of the Saiyan species instead of just changing hair


3127a6  No.15803043

>>15802988

>>15802999

Spikier hair on a single character for a single time it was used, and even then, it barely counts. Think about it. Gohan's hair was barely changed when he and Goku were just using SSJ as their normal form. He never got pumped up or fought at all, until he went SSJ2, so it's very arguable that SSJ2 didn't make his hair spiky, it was just him finally powering up for a fight. And the sparks are a hardly noticeable change.

>>15803009

>there's also the personality change

I feel like you're confusing correlation with causation, here. Gohan went SSJ2 because he finally decided to let loose and get mad. It's possible he would have behaved the same, after getting mad, even if he didn't unlock a new form.


b76e6e  No.15803050

File: 358da77e791325d⋯.jpg (37 KB, 474x544, 237:272, Super Saiyan God.jpg)

File: 0eb131409f7aa13⋯.png (1.77 MB, 640x1136, 40:71, SSGSS.png)

I'D JUST LIKE TO SAY ONE FUCKING THING REAL QUICK

WHY IS PICTURE 1 A "SUPER SAIYAN GOD" AND PICTURE 2 A "SUPER SAIYAN GOD SUPER SAIYAN"?

WHEN THE ENTIRE POINT ISN'T THAT SUPER SAIYAN BLUE IS THAT IT'S THE TECHNIQUE OF GOD KI IN A SUPER SAIYAN FORM.

I get they made Vegeta a SSG in the new Broly movie but come the fuck on

It makes no sense to call the Red Transformation a Super Saiyan God and have the fucking blue transformation.

Especially since vegeta went the fuck ahead and became a SSJ2B during the tournament of power


93bad2  No.15803068

File: 9615283dcf51ab4⋯.jpg (193.89 KB, 640x480, 4:3, SSJ2_Goku.jpg)

>>15803043

Wrong. Pic related.

Did you even watch DBZ?


524dfb  No.15803153

File: 329dc1189d76f1e⋯.gif (1.77 MB, 400x300, 4:3, dodge it all.gif)

>>15803050

What's funnier is that the series says SSGSS has nothing to do with God ki at all and Blue is just Super Saiyan but not shit at ki control.


93bad2  No.15803282

File: bb7dbc7ee5e2297⋯.png (1.56 MB, 1610x800, 161:80, forms.png)

>>15798768

Vegeta has the most kills compared to the other saiyans, the only thing he's cucked in is the forms department. Goku outclasses him by the end of DBZ, and Gohan eclipses both of them.


211a0c  No.15803288

>>15803029

It's fanfic tier.


0fbabf  No.15803296

>>15803288

As opposed to "his hair changes color and shape slightly and that makes him stronger"?


93bad2  No.15803305

>>15803296

I recall a fuck ton of shitty fanfic back in 2006 with Goku having red or blue hair. Back then everyone agreed it was shit. Now that Super comes out with red/blue hair, these same hypocrites now think it's cool.

Remember "SSJ Blanco" and how every mocked spic fanfics? Super comes out with "Ultra Instinct" and suddenly they do a 360 and think blanco is cool.

Bunch of retards without taste, just eating up whatever Toriyama cranks out of his ass.


211a0c  No.15803320

>>15803305

SSJ God is closer to Kaioken.

It's the most toned down of all forms.

I wish it were still some kind of gold but that didn't happen.


e24279  No.15803335

File: 3ca77f604d02137⋯.webm (1.19 MB, 1280x720, 16:9, forgot my tractor.webm)

>>15802445

Yeah ,part 1 of Stardust Crusaders was such a god damn drag, especially after that fucking amazing sequence of events in Battle tendency.

>>15803050

>>15803153

From what I gathered, SSGod was raw and unfocused, like a flamethrower. SSBlue was when it was focused properly, like a cutting torch.


211a0c  No.15803365

>>15803335

How well does the DBS dub smarten up goku overall? I havent watched any of it since the goku black arc and that was before it got dubbed at all.


0fbabf  No.15803385

>>15803335

>Blue was when it was focused properly, like a cutting torch.

From Resurrection F through most of Super, it's treated as a midway point on the road to reaching god level naturally

Then during the tournament of power they retcon them both into just being sidegrades from each other, with each having different pros and cons, after which they then proceed to ditch that throwaway excuse entirely and only use blue almost exclusively up until they bring in ultra instinct, because that's what sells and red hair apparently isn't cool enough anymore to be the big main thing


6577cd  No.15803390

>>15803305

Wasn't god form supposedly achievable even if you weren't a Saiyan?


211a0c  No.15803394

>>15803385

To be fair, red hair has never been widely considered to be aesthetic.


3127a6  No.15803407

>>15803068

Now show a video of that in motion, where they barely last for an instant at a time.

>>15803153

>What's funnier is that the series says SSGSS has nothing to do with God ki at all

Outright wrong. The moment Goku goes blue for the first time, Krillin remarks he can't feel Goku's ki anymore, like when he was an SSG. When Zamasu watches the tournament between U6 and U7, he gets pissed specifically because Goku is using god ki in his blue form.

>>15803282

I never denied Vegeta had the most kills. Did you miss the part where I said quality is more important than quantity? A large number of his kills are on people that were already incapacitated, on mooks that even Krillin could take out, or, in Guldo's case, made by taking a cheap shot. Hell, he would have died after his first fight with Zarbon, had Freeza not believed Vegeta was their only lead on the last Dragon Ball.


0fbabf  No.15803422

>>15803394

It was at least representative of what the form was supposed to be, blue hair just looks like shit

I'm more stuck on the fact that they finally got their shit together and put an upper limit on power levels in advance to serve as the end goal to reach, only to then tear it all to the ground and retcon it, just so they could go back to chaotic progression and introduce something completely fucking different to serve the same purpose, and I'm sure they'll do the exact same shit again if they ever get a chance


b76e6e  No.15803444

>>15803422

Ultra instinct isn't a power level though. It's a technique, not like, a kaio ken technique, more like, Keinzan


211a0c  No.15803449

>>15803422

Dont get me wrong, I hate SSJ blue.


211a0c  No.15803451

File: 659713624ea2656⋯.mp4 (15.42 MB, 1280x720, 16:9, Dragon Ball Super Broly - ….MP4)


62feef  No.15803460

File: 904e1033983bead⋯.gif (622.67 KB, 500x380, 25:19, 154154154541541.gif)

File: ffbdd30c855190d⋯.png (90.99 KB, 587x401, 587:401, 15415415415454455454.png)

Now that i think about it i think SS its pretty much the only transformation in anime that its aesthetic without looking weird, just compare it to this transformation in One piece by example.


211a0c  No.15803470

>>15803460

compare it to the other weird transformations in all of dragonball for that matter.

I mean they're usually Frieza's race but still.


0fbabf  No.15803473

>>15803444

>Ultra instinct isn't a power level though

And yet it's still a transformation that replaces other super sand forms, and massively increases attack power beyond them

It's just another higher form that happens to have an insanely OP special defensive ability that is literally impossible to write around beyond just making it inaccessible until the plot finally allows it


3127a6  No.15803474

>>15803451

That CG looks so bad. I thought movies were supposed to have more budget than a TV show.


3127a6  No.15803478

>>15803473

>It's just another higher form that happens to have an insanely OP special defensive ability that is literally impossible to write around beyond just making it inaccessible until the plot finally allows it

Hilariously, FotNS gave Ken the exact same bullshit ability, only for the villain of the second series to nullify it in a way that actually made sense. Then Ken bullshitted his way out of that technique, too.


9c738e  No.15803481

>>15803473

What I don't get about Ultra Instinct is that is basially makes Goku unbeatable since he can't be hit.

And then GT happens and he gets the shit beaten out of him on the regular.


0fbabf  No.15803497

>>15803481

>Still pretending GT is in the same timeline

Super contradicts it's own previously established plot points all the time, you can't expect it to line up with that too


0fbabf  No.15803502

>>15803478

>Hilariously, FotNS gave Ken the exact same bullshit ability, only for the villain of the second series to nullify it in a way that actually made sense

One Punch Man is doing something similar, though I haven't kept up with the manga in a while so I don't know if there's actual follow through on it

Toriyama and the idiots writing on the anime aren't smart enough to come up with even that in the first place though, let alone bullshit their way out of it


b76e6e  No.15803515

>>15803481

GT's noncanon/Multiverse'd


82a1a0  No.15803527

>>15803473

>And yet it's still a transformation that replaces other super sand forms,

No it's just Super Saiyan 1 form. The other forms basically became so muscular the series had to recognize that it was getting ridiculous.


0fbabf  No.15803619

>>15803527

>it's just Super Saiyan 1 form

By that logic red and blue are also just regular super saiyan, so the distinction is meaningless


91fe27  No.15804910

File: c9c21b0a7ac8f74⋯.gif (179.23 KB, 680x502, 340:251, 1541657421988.gif)

>>15803451

>that theme song


91fe27  No.15804926

>>15801624

>Beerus was strong enough to absorb the energy so the impact didn't destroy the universe. Presumably by the next time the story picks up, Goku and Vegeta are strong enough to do this as well.

But that is wrong. They were one punch away from destroying the Universe. It was Goku who matched the punches perfectly so it isn't about who is stronger. Also, it is the reason why GoDs are forbidden from fighting each other and why the ToP was held in the "Void".

>>15803444

That doesn't stop Toei from treating it as one just like Gohan's Potential Unleash.


c39551  No.15804939

Akria Toriyama and the writers for the other shows really should have had the z fighter beat villains through other means than just "powering up to their level", in most of the really good battles the fights were won via strategy maybe strategy isn't the right word but you get the idea


a0ece7  No.15805044

File: 0de0d6a304f2234⋯.jpg (22.5 KB, 256x362, 128:181, 82b7548ca629e3ca810d66fcd3….jpg)

>>15795659

Don't forget Part 3 of that trilogy.


d15167  No.15805086

youre right if they wanted a bumbling retard fuck for a main character they could have just used mark


12cbab  No.15805157

File: c83c76b63f3d82e⋯.mp4 (7.91 MB, 1280x720, 16:9, oTdnalUHOXwnz8KO.mp4)

>>15803451

SPOILERS FOR THE BROLY MOVIE

Gogeta is making a comeback


3127a6  No.15805209

>>15805157

One thing I will commend Super for is that its fight choreography can be really cool. I feel like it understands the kind of fights these fighters are capable of more than the original series.


e24279  No.15805326

File: 8ddc8ee850071d2⋯.jpg (98.2 KB, 552x671, 552:671, Guyver model.jpg)

File: bed5c9bb78821f7⋯.jpg (98.03 KB, 525x389, 525:389, Guyver Giganic Exceed buil….jpg)

>>15803365

Goku comes off more like he's aware of everything but he treats it too much like a game to give a shit about the finer details.

>>15803385

I'll be honest, I haven't seen the movies so I don't know how they differ.

>>15803390

Kinda. If you trained the right way, you could become a destroyer god. One of the fighters in the tournament of power reached that point.

>>15803460

Dunno. Guyver Gigantic wasn't too weird in terms of design. It's powers were odd, mind you.


211a0c  No.15805749

>>15805326

>Goku comes off more like he's aware of everything but he treats it too much like a game to give a shit about the finer details.

That doesn't sound too bad.


6e2b67  No.15805864

>>15802664

>Not according to Super, which takes the lead from all the games and shit and just makes it a multiverse instead of a back to the future style single timeline

>This also retcons the time machine into something that can cross timelines entirely, not just go back and forth, so that could put parts of the android saga into question anyway

What? There were always multiple timelines. It established as soon as Trunks shows up that his going back in time does not change the future he's from but creates an alternate timeline, and when he goes back to the future he is also going back to his timeline.

Super has a multiverse in addition to timelines. It's not like the multiverse is the same thing as multiple timelines. This makes me think you haven't even watched/read Super if you're getting something this wrong. Then again, thinking that Z operated on a Back to the Future single timeline model instead of a multiple timelines model indicates that you never even watched Z or read the original manga.

Spoilers since you never watched or read it (but still talk about it as if you did), but in Super, Trunks's entire multiverse gets fucked so his entire timeline gets erased. The multiverse in the main timeline still exists. Granted, the anime in particular makes the time travel and multiple timelines so fucking confusing that I don't think even the writers properly understand it. But the rules are clearly supposed to be the same as what we always saw since Trunks first appeared. The Super manga is a bit better with the time travel stuff though.

The video games and adaptations of them, such as Heroes, also introduce other dimensions, and I don't mean like "the next dimension." These are again a separate thing from timelines and multiverses. Presumably they're a lower order. Each timeline has its own multiverse and I'm pretty sure each universe has its own set of alternate dimensions. But then you were never meant to think too hard about Heroes, and that's even compared to Super.

>They've long since retconned all that good shit from the movies

What did they retcon from the movies? They adapted them into the anime and manga and kept almost everything, adding a few new things. There were a couple things that weren't in the adaptations but were in the movies, like mentioning Vegeta's brother, and Trunks and Mai having some romance subplot going on, but then even though it's not in the adaptations, the anime and manga both still make Trunks and Mai have a romance subplot later that is very significant and seems to assume you saw the movie, treating an element that was only in the movie as canon. Criticize Super for that, but it doesn't disregard or retcon the developments from the movies at all.

>>15802896

USSJ isn't even a thing. 2 is lame because it barely looks different enough to even distinguish, though at least it has a justification to explain what exactly it is. 3 has no explanation but at least it looks different. 4 has an explanation and looks different so I'm ok with it. SSJ is the OG so of course it's best.

SSG makes sense as the next logical progression. It was pretty well established that the characters were at their natural limits, so Goku uses a magic spell to surpass those. But they still justify it with Goku's actual abilities and not just magic by saying the magic wears off but Goku is so good at copying techniques that he got the hint he needed to learn how to re-harness that energy on his own after. It's a bit dumb but it's narratively fulfilling. Then Blue is just turning Super Saiyan after using that magic spell. Ultra Instinct shouldn't even be treated as an actual transformation, but just a difficult technique (which they do sort of treat it as sometimes, but sometimes it's a straight up transformation). Legendary Super Saiyan is just being the chosen one or whatever, so that's a different thing that at least is explained a bit better now than it was in the original Broly movies. Still not used to great effect, but maybe the new movie will do a bit better.


6e2b67  No.15805867

>>15803050

Super Saiyan God is a misnomer for what should more properly be called a Saiyan God. It has to do with Saiyans, but nothing to do with Super Saiyans. It's a Saiyan with God Ki. Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is a Saiyan who becomes a Super Saiyan while having God Ki.

>>15803305

You have to understand that Super is fun if you don't take it super seriously. Goku Blanco being canon is fun specifically because it's so fucking stupid. Super is essentially a fanfic, but it's a fun one. It's by fans for fans. And also for the sake of selling toys.

>>15803335

>>15803385

>From what I gathered, SSGod was raw and unfocused, like a flamethrower. SSBlue was when it was focused properly, like a cutting torch.

It's Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan. This isn't hard. It's turning Super Saiyan when you have God Ki. It's in the name. It's like you guys are going out of your way to not be able to understand the dumbest anime ever made.

>>15803390

There are different kinds of Gods. All Gods get God Ki. Only Saiyans can become Super Saiyan Gods (but actually they don't need to be Super Saiyans). Well before this, we saw regular mortal Namekians becoming Gods. Just a different type of God. Super also shows that mortals can become Hakaishin, Gods of Destruction. However, it seems to still imply that only immortals can become Kaio or Kaioshin. Mortals can become Kaioshins' attendants, though, and this gives them special abilities as well. Kibito is Kaioshin's attendant, but Trunks becomes one as well. Having Trunks become a Kaioshin would have been cool but no.

>>15803473

>And yet it's still a transformation that replaces other super sand forms

Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan God, and Ultra Instinct are all different paths of progression that theoretically could be done together. Super Saiyan 3 may be as well. And Super Saiyan 2 and Super Saiyan 4 are also both different paths of progression from Super Saiyan 1. There is no reason in-universe why you couldn't have a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan 2/3 Super Saiyan 4 with Ultra Instinct and Kaioken. They're separate and unrelated techniques that should be able to be used at the same time.

>>15803481

He can be hit by someone else who is even faster.

GT has two things happen. First of all he gets weaker when the Dragon Balls make him a kid again. Second, they fight stronger guys. Also, it's likely not canon but I like to just treat everything as canon because it's more fun that way.

>>15804926

>But that is wrong. They were one punch away from destroying the Universe. It was Goku who matched the punches perfectly so it isn't about who is stronger. Also, it is the reason why GoDs are forbidden from fighting each other and why the ToP was held in the "Void".

Goku never even came close to Beerus. Beerus was doing exactly what he wanted to do the entire time, just toying with and testing Goku. But the point is, it's possible to negate that stuff, so that's what Goku and the others are doing later.


211a0c  No.15805931

File: 0114407cbd8393b⋯.png (773.48 KB, 1280x720, 16:9, 1482253451_super_saiyan_go….png)

Admit it.

This would be amazing if Kaioken didn't already exist.


c12b2a  No.15805968

>>15805867

Are you really acting arrogant while defending a form called "Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan"?


6e2b67  No.15805983

>>15805968

It's stupid, and the name doesn't accurately describe what it is, but if you actually read the manga or watch the show, it is very clearly explained. To not understand it means you didn't actually read it or watch it. Or you're just actually retarded.


181f61  No.15805993

>>15792985

All characters on long running manga gets flanderized to hell and back. Goku is probably the most egregious example, but it isn't unique.


425a5a  No.15806014

>>15805044

>DS

>Wii

Picking the worse consoles around isn't it?


6e2b67  No.15806038

File: b5fef745ed09ef6⋯.png (890.89 KB, 566x720, 283:360, Of feels and nogfs.png)

>>15805993

For a while in Super it almost seemed like Goku was becoming a villain. He set up a situation where most of the multiverse would be destroyed, literally to measure his abilities. Several years after Goku has become a god, he has become so powerful that he is now a bored god. He long since overcame the barrier between life and death. Everyone knows death is meaningless in Dragon Ball. But what is death if not the thing that gives life meaning? Goku has become Doctor Manhattan, realizing "a live body and a dead body contain the same number of particles. Structurally, there's no discernible difference. Life and death are unquantifiable abstracts. Why should I be concerned?" And with that, he becomes unconcerned with the concept of life. He now has only one concern, one priority that overrides all others: fighting strong guys. Of course, following this, there is only one logical ending. Vegeta finally has a selfless motive to surpass Kakarotto, so that he can save the multiverse from him. He will have to finally put down his old friend, who is too simple-minded to understand what he's done wrong.

>"Don't worry, Kakarot. You'll just be going to the next next dimension."

>"Oh gee, Vegeta! Will there be lots of strong guys there?"

>"Yes Kakarot, there will be lots of strong guys."

But no actually he knew nobody would be destroyed and the entire tournament was all according to keikaku.


ad7e8d  No.15806056

File: 9a0db66c76a301b⋯.png (265 KB, 720x400, 9:5, Piccolo Postboy.png)

>>15806038

The universes were already going to be destroyed, so Goku ended up giving them a chance though his "oh shit I want to fight strong people!" mindset.


6e2b67  No.15806066

>>15806056

Yeah yeah, but the point is it was a lot more interesting when you could trick yourself into thinking there was a possibility that Goku might actually be the villain. What they could have done was said that when Goku went back to the future to grab Future Zeno, Zamas/Black switched places with Goku and the Goku in the Tournament of Power arc was Black all along, explaining why he enacts a plan that seemingly will lead to the destruction of most of the multiverse.


ad7e8d  No.15806073

File: 1ef416c73681d8b⋯.jpg (36.31 KB, 770x559, 770:559, 1533038089.jpg)

>>15806066

Your idea is dumber than back tingles.


6e2b67  No.15806091

>>15806073

Well at least it's not as bad as Frost actually being a bad guy. I'm still mad about that one. Though it can be fixed if Frieza actually becomes a good guy. Therefore Frost actually is the backwards version of Frieza instead of just a weaker version of him. This way, Frost is a guy who first seems good but turns out to be bad in the end, while Frieza at first seems bad but turns out to be good in the end. Yes, Frieza turning good is fucking stupid, but every other bad guy became good eventually, so I fully expect them to do this with Frieza as well. I've embraced Super being stupid. I can accept that. But I'm still mad about how it seemingly goes out of its way to set up cool concepts and then ruin them, like the intention is the disappoint the viewers.


0fb641  No.15807808

Goku was always a mischivious asshole who liked fighting stronger and stronger opponents. Your exposure to the anime has clouded your expectations of the character. The English dub gave Goku a super man persona instead of his intended one. He only let freiza power up so he could test his skills and beat the fuck out of him.


76d190  No.15808008

File: 5bf2c0602b49957⋯.png (13.09 KB, 550x575, 22:23, Born do shibost.png)

>>15803282

>Kaioken

>Zenkai

>Great Saiyaman

>Forms

On a related note, are Gohan's fits of rage supposed to be culminated in SSJ2 or Ultimate? Because from a narrative point of view it's obviously SSJ2 but Ultimate works better when you consider anyone can do 2, and Ultimate is supposed to be his latent power unlocked.


6e2b67  No.15808066

>>15808008

>Gohan has anger and repression problems, so when he gets angry his attacks become better than most.

>Super Saiyan is a transformation that is reached when the user has a high degree of skill and power and then gets very angry.

>Goku taught Gohan how to become a Super Saiyan, then trained him so that he can Gohan mastered Super Saiyan so well that they were used to it and could treat it almost like their normal forms. So they didn't have that anger and stuff just to keep it going.

>Then Gohan got super angry again, while he was already a very strong Super Saiyan (but calm), which triggered a second Super Saiyan transformation on top of the first one, which was Super Saiyan 2

Later, Elder Kai would do a ritual to unlock even more of Gohan's potential. It's not like this hasn't happened before, like when Goku drank Korin's Super Holy Water, or when Grand Elder unlocked Gohan and Krillin's potential on Namek. This was just unlocking even more potential. It's never stated to be his full potential, though people seem to infer this a lot. But that wasn't the case when Goku, Krillin, or again Gohan had their potential unlocked previously. The difference here is that this leaves Gohan as by far the strongest character in the entire series, and he is only defeated by his own overconfidence allowing the enemy to trick him. Gohan by this point is so strong that he doesn't even need to transform to be in a whole other league than Buu with Gotenks absorbed. People seem to think that he can't transform, but actually watching it, it seems more like he's so strong he would need to get used to it to learn to transform again, with his new level of power. But it's unnecessary so he doesn't bother.

Basically, "Ultimate" isn't a real transformation and also isn't shown to be tied much to his rage. That whole aspect of his character is largely absent in the Buu saga.

Note when Goku had his potential unlocked with Korin's Super Holy Water, the implication seems to be that it made his human form as powerful as his ape form. Gohan would have already far surpassed that. It would make sense to say his potential being unlocked made his regular, non angry self as strong as when he's angry, since that's his gimmick. But that gimmick isn't really played up by this point in the series. Also Gohan already had his potential unlocked before and that also didn't seem directly tied to his anger.


883fee  No.15808258

>>15801624

>Then Goku is sick for a good chunk of the Android arc

And we see the rest of the group bumble around, half-solving things until Vegeta ruins everything.

>and he's dead for most of the Buu arc

And we get fucking Gotenks.

No, Goku may be a plot device, but he doesn't ruin everything with his sole presence

>>15802413

It's boring as hell, yeah, but it also serves to showcase the destruction of Freeza in a otherwise idyllic place

>>15805983

>It has to do with Saiyans, but nothing to do with Super Saiyans

Despite the fact that it was advertised as the TRUE super saiyan form

>Goku Blanco being canon is fun specifically because it's so fucking stupid

Except it's not even entertainingly stupid, it's just an upgrade to a transformation introduced in the same fucking arc, which becomes ultimately meaningless


6e2b67  No.15808274

>>15808258

Didn't mean to imply Goku ruins everything by being around, just that there's a lot of good stuff when he isn't even there, which is surprising considering he's the main character.

Best arc is Red Ribbon anyway, which is all about Goku.

>Despite the fact that it was advertised as the TRUE super saiyan form

It sorta feels like it might have been intended to be the legendary super saiyan of legend, but then that doesn't really actually make sense when you think about it, even if you only count Battle of Gods and the original manga. Though it would have been interesting. It's clearly off the table now that Super actually does use Legendary Super Saiyan as a thing.

>Except it's not even entertainingly stupid, it's just an upgrade to a transformation introduced in the same fucking arc, which becomes ultimately meaningless

But only one transformation was introduced that arc. Ultra Instinct. And it's not an upgrade to anything. Goku only uses it from his base form. It's unrelated to any transformations. What are you even talking about?


883fee  No.15808332

>>15808274

>just that there's a lot of good stuff when he isn't even there

And my point was that there were also some outright terribly stupid moments when he isn't there, either, just to say that, all in all the quality stays consistent.

>but then that doesn't really actually make sense when you think about it

It'd only make less sense, it's still supposed to be a saiyan legend that we just conveniently heard about now

>What are you even talking about?

Mastered Ultra Instinct. They bothered to make the distinction between Mastered and normal, even though it didn't bring anything new to the table, so fuck it, it's an upgrade


6e2b67  No.15808350

>>15808332

>And my point was that there were also some outright terribly stupid moments when he isn't there, either, just to say that, all in all the quality stays consistent.

Meh. I stand by my assertion that the best part of the Saiyan saga is when Goku is dead, and the best part of the Namek arc is before Goku gets there. Buu saga isn't even as good anyway.

>Mastered Ultra Instinct. They bothered to make the distinction between Mastered and normal, even though it didn't bring anything new to the table, so fuck it, it's an upgrade

All it was was that he showed flashes of Ultra Instinct before actually getting it fully. That's not a different form. He's just getting better at using a technique.


0fbabf  No.15808514

>>15805864

>Criticize Super for that, but it doesn't disregard or retcon the developments from the movies at all.

Right, I must have just hallucinated those transformations being introduced and explained in the movies, those are clearly anime-only developments that they retconned


85ffa9  No.15808592

>Bring up the fact that parts of super are retarded

>Cock suckers reiterate the show's asspull explanations for said parts as if that exonerates them

Why do you retards do this? Just because the show has a half-assed explanation for something it doesn't make it good writing.

How many times are you gonna tell people that super saiyan god is a good form because the anime explains it instead of taking a step back and realizing that achieving godhood by having six saiyans hold hands is fucking stupid?


b76e6e  No.15808645

>>15808258

>Despite the fact that it was advertised as the TRUE super saiyan form

You're thinking of Broly, if we're talking The Super Saiyan, and not A Super Saiyan


fb7b61  No.15808650

>>15798560

>Gohan wouldn't have worked as a main character

Yeah he would have. Toryama being a shit writer doesn't mean it couldn't have worked. The entire point to Gohan was his potential. He was potential incarnate. He could have been anything and the show set him up be Goku's foil. He ended up being wasted potential, even more so in super.


9d49a2  No.15808687

>>15808650

>Toryama being a shit writer doesn't mean it couldn't have worked.

You understand that this sentence doesn't make sense for the fact that Toriyama WAS the writer, right?

>The entire point to Gohan was his potential.

You're proving me right with this exact same sentence. I don't even understand why you're disagreeing with the post. Potential was all there was to him. That's exactly the problem. He had nothing else. The moment the potential paid off, which was at the Cell fight, was the moment there was nothing left to be done with Gohan.

In fact, Toriyama did a repeat of this with Mystic/Ultimate/whatever Gohan. It was bland. The problem is that you can't base a character entirely on the single quirk of him having the "potential" gimmick. After it pays off, there's nothing else to do with him. You have to add other interesting traits to him as well, at the very fucking least an interesting motivation that attracts the audience. He's boring as a side character, and you want him as a main character. Completely absurd.


9d49a2  No.15808692

>>15808592

Try quoting someone that did what you said if you actually want someone to answer your question.


8efecf  No.15808770

>>15805867

>Goku never even came close to Beerus.

That never has been the point.

>Beerus was doing exactly what he wanted to do the entire time, just toying with and testing Goku.

And he was one punch away from destroying the Universe.

>But the point is, it's possible to negate that stuff,

Which Beerus and Champa weren't doing in Yamcha episode.

>so that's what Goku and the others are doing later.

Because it totally makes sense that everyone including Goku Black was holding back.

>All Gods get God Ki.

Which mortals can't detect but Goku can Instant Transmission to since DBZ.

>You have to understand that Super is fun if you don't take it super seriously.

Just like how nuStarWars is with its leftist bullshit?

>>15808592

>Why do you retards do this?

That is only amount of mental exercise that they would ever get.


fb7b61  No.15808927

>>15808687

>You understand that this sentence doesn't make sense for the fact that Toriyama WAS the writer, right?

Are you retarded? I'm saying if he wasn't a hack it could have worked. Him being a shitty writer is the problem, not the character.

>I don't even understand why you're disagreeing with the post.

Nor do you understand my post.

>The moment the potential paid off,

It didn't pay off. There was no pay off. Gohan had a lot of development that didn't pay of at all. That's the problem. Did you read my post?

He's only boring because all of the development lead to nothing at all.


9d49a2  No.15808944

>>15808927

>Him being a shitty writer is the problem, not the character.

You can't separate him from the character. What you're arguing for is a hypothetical parallel world where he didn't write Dragon Ball and somebody more competent did, is that correct?

Then what character are you arguing in favor? Gohan is what he is due to Toriyama. You'd have to rewrite him from scratch, from the moment in the manga where he first appeared. He doesn't have interesting motivations or character traits. You can't just add distinct character traits to an already established character. At least Toriyama knew that much, which is why he didn't use him as a main character.

If you're arguing in favor of a different Gohan in a hypothetical world where Toriyama didn't write him and he was different from the very beginning, then yeah, sure.

>It didn't pay off. There was no pay off

How was the Cell fight not a pay off? He reached a new level and got to the realization that he was a coward but could work towards bravery by letting his anger out, which is something that he had to understand was righteous at certain situations. How is that not a pay off? The entire character arc of Gohan lead up to that point


fb7b61  No.15808984

>>15808944

> He doesn't have interesting motivations or character traits.

Actually he did and you can "just add distinct character traits". He was a child who was maturing. That alone allowed him to take Gohan in any other direction. His adult-self is largely different from his child-self, so Toriyama already did what you claim he couldn't.

>How was the Cell fight not a pay off? He reached a new level and got to the realization that he was a coward but could work towards bravery by letting his anger out,

Which is something that's been happening since the beginning. Pay off would mean him actually having resolution and growth. He could have started to understand his dad and his own power and decided he was ready to take on Cell. Instead, he remained the same coward he always was and simply shot a rage beam despite all the training and composure he learned from previous experience. He then goes on to not train even after all of that shit and knowing his father (who put all of is eggs in Gohan's basket) was dead and he was the strongest fighter left. That's not pay off. That's losing.


9488d0  No.15809003

>>15808984

(Sorry, IP change due to router reset)

> That alone allowed him to take Gohan in any other direction

He was already a teenager by the time he fought Cell. By that point he HAD to have added at least some character traits before the fight's pay off. But he didn't. After that, it's too late and adding traits would just seem as if he's rewriting the character. You have to add them more naturally and slowly, and each should be backed by plot points.

To Toriyama's defense, he did go in the right direction by making him a bit awkward as a highschooler. It's better to keep consistency than to asspull some changes out of nowhere.

>Pay off would mean him actually having resolution and growth.

He did have resolution and growth. He resolved to not be a wimp anymore, let his anger out and grow more confidence. You can't ask more of him; he doesn't have a personality other than "wimp with potential but he wants to protect the Earth". That's all he's got.

>he remained the same coward he always was

He wasn't a coward during the fight. When he turned SSJ2 he was arrogant and resolute.

I understand it's not the pay off you expected, but it's a pay off nonetheless. If you ask Toriyama, he'll tell you that was the pay off. That's all he was lead up to be.

The reason Gohan is a disappointment is not that he didn't have a payoff, it's that the payoff was lame. Because he was lame from the very beginning. And that's something you just can't work with once it's already set.


3127a6  No.15809856

>>15809003

>He was already a teenager by the time he fought Cell.

He actually wasn't. The English games just kept calling him "Teen Gohan" because the localizers were dumb.


9810b4  No.15812086

>>15802896

theres a super saiyan transformation that turns you into a shota?


211a0c  No.15814035

>>15809856

He was 13 wasnt he?

that's a teenager.


6e2b67  No.15814164

>>15808514

The show adapts the movies, yes. But it covers the same plot points. You're acting like it outright says things from the movies are invalid. Which it doesn't. On a technical level the movies aren't canon to the anime (RF is sorta canon to the manga though) but the effect is the same since they're adapted and they don't change major plot points.

>>15808650

Honestly the way I see it is Goku was always surpassing his limits and finding stronger and stronger people to overcome. With Frieza, he became stronger than the emperor of space. And with that, he has nowhere higher to go. But new threats will still develop, so the logical thing both narratively and in-universe is for Goku to train the next generation to take over for him. That is the true end of Goku's story, and that's why Toriyama tried to do it again after the Buu saga with Uub. But of course that's not fulfilling because Gohan was built up for years, while Uub came out of nowhere. I don't need to see Gohan be the hero, because we knew he was as soon as he beat Cell. That's the end of the story. If we do see Gohan do stuff after, that's a sequel, a new story. But then they backed out of even that and just had Goku give up on trying to train new people because Gotenks fucked up too. Gohan was still technically the strongest by the end of the Buu Saga, but fuck it, Goku needs to do everything because it turns out everyone else is even more retarded than him and can't be trusted.

>>15808687

After Gohan finds his potential you can do more with him, but it's gonna be basically a new story. Which is what the Saiyaman stuff was. And I'd have been interested in seeing more of that. But even Super only does an episode or two on it and it's not very relevant. Gohan essentially became Superman, and not just because of his overt superhero persona. Being a nerd with a family and stuff. I'd watch a show about that. But it's too different from "Dragon Ball" so they won't do it.

>>15808770

>And he was one punch away from destroying the Universe.

But he was good enough to not destroy it. He could have, but he is far enough beyond that level to also control it.

>Because it totally makes sense that everyone including Goku Black was holding back.

No, but the protagonists were fighting in a way to ensure their fights didn't destroy the universe. You would need a fight between two people who both want to destroy the universe, or one who did and one who wasn't strong enough to counter that. But everyone we're seeing is past that point.

Not saying it's not stupid, though. Just that it's justified.

>Which mortals can't detect but Goku can Instant Transmission to since DBZ.

Maybe he was teleporting to Bubbles. Unless Bubbles is a god. Which he might be.

>That is only amount of mental exercise that they would ever get.

It's because a lot of times people act like they don't understand it, when it's really simple. Or they outright give an explanation different from the actual one, and then act extra confused. If they just say "that was fucking dumb," well yeah a lot of it is.

>Just like how nuStarWars is with its leftist bullshit?

Soy Wars isn't fun though. It's completely dour and depressing on purpose. It's made out of spite. It wouldn't be nearly as bad if it was just Disney raping the corpse of a once good series, without also trying to make it into a SJW propaganda tool.

>>15814035

Gohan is 4 when he's introduced. A year passes and Vegeta shows up, so he's 5 then. They go to Namek and that whole arc only takes like two months since the end of the Saiyan saga. Then they get back and 260 days passes while they make two sets of wishes on the Namekian Dragon Balls. So added to the like two months after the end of the Saiyan Saga we can figure almost a year passed by this point. Gohan might be almost or about 6 years old at this point. (It doesn't seem like Raditz arrived right on Gohan's fourth birthday.) A year passes again before Goku gets back to earth. Gohan is about 7 at that point. Three years training for the Androids, he'd be about 10. He and Goku then train for less than a day (so less than a year) inside the Room of Spirit and Time, and then ten days pass before they fight Cell, so he'd be 10 or 11 when he fights Cell, counting the time he spent in the Room of Spirit and Time. Everyone else would think he's 9 or 10.

So no, not a teenager. The form that the video games always call "Adult Gohan" is 16 or 17. He's a teenager. After fighting Buu, six months pass and they make some wishes. Son Goku and his Friends Return happens shortly after that. He might be an adult around that point. Then they don't call attention to it but like three or four years pass before Battle of Gods happens.


90ed3a  No.15814250

>>15792985

Flanderisation is inebitable in any series that lasts goes on forever with the same cast though rotating writers my dear anon


90ed3a  No.15814256

where is super on the timeline between Z and the Uub Tourney


90ed3a  No.15814276

>>15806014

He didn't say PS4 or Switch though


90ed3a  No.15814305

>>15806038

it was obvious as shit that the endings were "Wish all the universes back", its dragonball


e668c7  No.15814310

>>15795021

you homosex faggot


a823d8  No.15814418

>>15814256

At the time the tournament of power Uub is about 5 years so we're half way between the defeat of majin buu and the epilogue


e6bae1  No.15814432

>>15814250

But…there's only one writer though? Unless AT didn't write Super…


a823d8  No.15814473

File: e3c4295bd44fc9d⋯.png (57.27 KB, 730x548, 365:274, 730px-Toei_Animation_logo.….png)

>>15814432

Do you honestly think akira toriyama writes half a dozen mangas and an anime every fucking week. I bet you think he draws the entire thing by himself too.

Toriyama writes rough outlines and then sends them off to various production studios which actually flesh it out, storyboard it, draw it, etc, etc…


0a2105  No.15814796

>>15814432

No shit, Super was done by one of his assistants and was basically its own story separate from the anime, Toriyama just put out a rough-draft to follow.


b53bed  No.15814936

File: 1772e929feaf5dd⋯.png (175.62 KB, 480x360, 4:3, ClipboardImage.png)

>>15814432

>But…there's only one writer though? Unless AT didn't write Super…

>He thinks Akira did more then a small draft and even on top of that wasn't made to meet criteria with these drafts

This is what Dragon Ball Niggas actually believe LMAO.


91fe27  No.15815445

>>15814164

>But he was good enough to not destroy it.

So he deliberately fucked up the first and second time for Goku to match his third punch strength and angle?

>You would need a fight between two people who both want to destroy the universe, or one who did and one who wasn't strong enough to counter that. But everyone we're seeing is past that point.

Again the bigger issue is matching strength and angle for every punch thrown.

>Maybe he was teleporting to Bubbles.

I recall him teleporting to Supreme Kai's planet so no.

<Super isn't fun though. It's completely predictable and derivative on purpose. It's made out of spite. It wouldn't be nearly as bad if it was just Toei raping the corpse of a once good series, without also trying to make it into a toy commercial.


211a0c  No.15818446

Here's something to chew on.

What happened to Trunks' tail.

Even half breeds are born with them, and there was nobody alive who could have removed it or known to.


16457a  No.15818490

>>15818446

Something something recessive trait Gohan was a special case. U6 Saiyans and Xenoverse Saiyans don't have tails too.


6e2b67  No.15820446

>>15814256

>>15814418

Pan is like four or five years old when Goku meets Uub, and that takes place ten years after the end of the Buu Saga. This implies that Battle of Gods takes place about five years after the end of the Buu Saga, severely limiting the amount of time Super has to only five years instead of ten years.

There have been multiple timeskips in Super. At least a year passes between Battle of Gods and Resurrection F, due to the use of the Dragon Balls. It also works out because Pan is an infant now. They use the Dragon Balls again in both the Universe 6 Saga and Future Trunks saga, though IIRC these are both anime only and could be seen as filler and mistakes. I'm sure they say there are significant timeskips anyway, though, when they were just training or whatever. The point is, they should be very close to when Goku met Uub. They might as well just let it happen and then continue on with Uub being a character, since he was wasted in GT.

>>15815445

Super is made out of spite? How do you figure? I figured it was just money grubbing with a tiny tinge of autism from Toyotaro.

>>15818446

>Even half breeds are born with them, and there was nobody alive who could have removed it or known to.

I figure all the Saiyans except Goku trim their tails. Goku doesn't need to because Kami removed it permanently.


9072e8  No.15820858

>>15805209

>I feel like it understands the kinds of fights these fighers are cappable of more than the original series.

Thank you, holy shit. I never see anyone say this. This is literally why I love the fighting games and especially their openings so much because they actually feel like the kind of intensity we're just being told, but not fucking shown and that makes for absolutely addicting gameplay when done right. First fight VS Vegeta or Frieza are the only times I could actually believe everyone was using insane speed and physical strength against each other and it looked gorgeous and actually exciting with things like Goku physically literally launching towards Frieza on the ground to begin the fight before they started colliding at blurring speeds. It wasn't just power, it was also momentum and weight. Fucking why.

WHY

ARE

Z'S

FIGHT

ANIMATIONS

SO

FUCKING

SLOW


d26102  No.15821661

WARNING INDEPENDANT THOUGHT ALARM

I liked Freiza coming back because hes that rare shounen villain that returns and learns something other than the error of his ways. By the time he takes down jiren he has learnt a measure of self control and the value of teamwork while still being an evil ojousama hitler from space because good and evil isnt a goddamn switch.


d26102  No.15821697

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

>>15820858

Z was vertical torsos and 3 blurred arms or legs kicking like a bad bruce lee impression. Super for its animation lows gave each fighter a set style to influence them like gokus free flowing acrobatic tai chi, vegetas kickboxing and 17's karate to name a few.

This means even the little moves seem more dynamic because in super the whole body moves in a motion suggesting kinetic energy which a lot of Z and its heavy reliance on energy attacks and powering up lacked.

Look at when goku launches freiza in this segment for example. Z had great detail in its art but in its fighting it lacked these little moment.s


fb7b61  No.15821748

>>15821661

Fuck Freezer

>WARNING INDEPENDANT THOUGHT ALARM

Fuck you.

>>>/cuckchannel/


d26102  No.15821769

>>15821748

>not down with a perfectly cromulent pre season 9 simpsons reference.


ffae55  No.15821778

>>15821661

>Hitler

>evil

Get out.


91fe27  No.15821872

>>15805209

>One thing I will commend Super for is that its fight choreography can be really cool.

I'm not impressed at all.

>>15820446

>Super is made out of spite? How do you figure? I figured it was just money grubbing with a tiny tinge of autism from Toyotaro.

Toriyama said that he made it in response to Dragon Ball Evolution. Dragon Ball Evolution is like FO:BoS. Nobody liked it but it was a shitty spin-off so it doesn't cancer up the brand like DBS/FO3 did. The SW Prequels didn't ruined the OT so being "better" than the PT isn't an excuse for the NT to completely ruin the characters and their accomplishments in the OT.

>>15821661

>WARNING COMPLETE NORMALFAG ALARM

ftfy. Why don't you make some stupid clickbait DB video on YouTube?

>>15792999

>Falling for the meme

Goku was a good kid in the original DB. If what Toriyama said was true, he would be excited about Tao Pai Pai being so strong instead of angry about killing Bora.


9072e8  No.15821972

>>15821778

Anon said evil and Hitler (a factually conquering dictator), you fucking overdefensive retard.


9072e8  No.15822610

>>15821697

Fucking look at this. Frieza even straight up tells Goku to boost him towards Jiren before he starts blasting forward with Nova Strike, feeding the audience information that doing this is making it even stronger and faster enough to reach in time, do real damage, blast through a ridiculously strong platform and even drag him down with, all simultaneously. Before this, Goku and Frieza are shown desperately charging and physically slamming into him just to wear him down while stubbornly planting into the ground to stay on the attack, using the arena to keep going at him while staying in base form during all of this. It's like a completely different fucking new, but savant writer that only ever played DB games or even just watched entirely different anime wrote the last fight scenes in 131.

Where is this kind of simple, but easily understood and exciting action throughout entire arcs? Let me guess, too fucking expensive?


9072e8  No.15825935

How does God Ki even work? You pressurize inner energies that normally flow out like a diamond until a locked up power leaks out that normally only divine beings are capable of doing without explicit training? It just doesn't make sense how the power of literal gods is freely allowed within every single lifeform, it just has to being kept in until it's done "cooking". Maybe that's what Zamasu was always so triggered about. But then it also makes him look stupid because he's denying any mortals regardless of their soul or ideals the chance to evolve beyond what he sees is evil and flawed.


211a0c  No.15826081

>>15821661

Frieza's a bitch now.

Don't be surprised to see him assist the "Z Fighters" in killing Broly in the new reboot.


91fe27  No.15826558

>>15825935

>How does God Ki even work?

It doesn't. It is just an excuse to not number SSJ forms.


0fbabf  No.15826824

>>15826081

Villains teaming up with the Heroes out of desperation without actually becoming good is the best though


737cf2  No.15826914

>>15826081

That's been just about every noticeable villain in DB and Z from the start. Yamcha, Tien and Chiaozu, Piccolo, Vegeta, 17 and 18, 16, Majin Buu, the Cell clones and now Frieza.

>>15825935

>Zamasu was always so triggered about

I think Zumasu was just pissed that he wasn't that special. He was considered strong among the Kai, so I'm sure he felt that he was among the strongest and there sure as shit weren't any mortals that could come close to him. That is until he met Goku and he immediately went from high and mighty to inferior in one afternoon. I think God ki is just some special ki that non-Gods can't sense and can't use as a result. The ritual just gave the saiyans a taste of it and their cells did the rest in a way that should be similar to when Cell resurrected in his perfect from. I don't think the kai or the gods of destruction want just anyone running around with their ki as that could cause a lot of problems for them in the future.

>>15826824

>Villains teaming up with the Heroes out of desperation without actually becoming good is the best though

That was Vegeta up until the Buu arc when he sacrificed himself.


0fbabf  No.15826974

>>15826914

>That was Vegeta up until the Buu arc when he sacrificed himself.

Don't kid yourself, Vegeta was a grumpy good guy as early as Namek, him saying yes to the demon cock several entire arcs later was just him realizing how soft he'd become and having an identity crisis and temporary relapse

Frieza worked with everyone, and I'd personally enjoy it if he was on (slightly) more friendly terms with everyone going forward so we could explore other sides of his character, but it's abundantly clear that he's still going to jump at any chance to get revenge and there may very well never be a serious fight with him that doesn't have a planet at stake


737cf2  No.15827046

>>15826974

>more friendly terms with everyone going forward so we could explore other sides of his character, but it's abundantly clear that he's still going to jump at any chance to get revenge and there may very well never be a serious fight with him that doesn't have a planet at stake

I think it depends on how they handle his character from here on out. Manga Frieza is a bit more ambiguous as to whether or not he'll help Goku again. I did find it interesting that the manga says that Frieza only causes trouble in the future for the Z fighters, but it doesn't say that he threatens the universe. I think Frieza summons Broly somehow and then he's forced to get help. He has zero chance of ever beating Goku and the anime version knows it for sure. I don't see him ever really going after Goku like he did after Namek again. He'd just get killed and there are even more saiyans now. It just wouldn't make any sense when he could just rule the Galaxy away from the saiyans. It's not like they're competing with him, so Goku would leave him alone as long as he keeps his distance.


0fbabf  No.15827077

>>15827046

>It just wouldn't make any sense when he could just rule the Galaxy away from the saiyans. It's not like they're competing with him, so Goku would leave him alone as long as he keeps his distance.

At what point has letting shit go ever been part of Frieza's MO

The literal only time he's ever even displayed a hint of willingness to stay out of something was when talking about what his dad told him about Beerus, and I'd be surprised if he would still have that fear after winning a tournament involving multiple god-tier combatants, who he equaled with only a little training and some teamwork


737cf2  No.15827160

>>15827077

>At what point has letting shit go ever been part of Frieza's MO

When Jiren beat it out of him in the anime? It's really going to depend on where Toei and the manga take Frieza. I was saying that it wouldn't make sense for Frieza to keep doing what gets him killed against an enemy that is just going to keep getting power ups that rival the gods. Frieza could barely handle a ball of hakai that a lower tiered god gave to one of his henchmen. He can't survive a sustained blast and especially not one from Beerus. Jiren was really the only one that could rival a god at that tournament and Frieza was never shown to be able to handle him on his own.


0fbabf  No.15827218

>>15827160

After being revived, he realized he would need to actually train for the first time in his life to have a chance at beating goku

At the tournament, he still ended up winning, in his base goddamn form no less, just with a change of tactics

There should be nothing standing in the way of the idea that he'd still think he could win with the proper preparation and strategy

Fuck, if I remember correctly, didn't he even intimidate Beerus after the tournament when they were all celebrating?


737cf2  No.15827267

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

>>15827218

>didn't he even intimidate Beerus after the tournament when they were all celebrating

No. Beerus allowed him to live again, so he was just showing embarrassment after Whis put him on the spot. Frieza is really no different than saiyan saga/Frieza saga Vegeta at this point. He could barely handle the hakai of some minion that a weaker god of destruction let him borrow. Beerus would murder Frieza as fast as he did to Zamasu. I don't think training is going to do him as much good as Goku and Vegeta are constantly training and are constantly getting stronger. Frieza doesn't really have a Vegeta or a Goku that he can spare against and that would limit him. He didn't even work on being able to sense ki. I'm sure he would get stronger with training, but he has better options and that's really to just avoid Earth entirely. He could possibly train with Whis if he decided to work for Beerus again and that would help solve his training issue. However, I don't see the Frieza of the Frieza saga ever returning again. He may lapse like Vegeta did during the Buu arc, but there really isn't a point. There are too many strong saiyans, they can become far stronger and they can just wish everyone back. Frieza could just blow up the Earth again, but odds are that Goku and Vegeta won't be there and they'll bring it back before long. Toei can do whatever they want with the character, but I don't see it happening based on where they were taking him with Super. He's far more like Vegeta was now.


320ca8  No.15827283

>>15794954

>Infinite world is a straight improvement on the B3 combat though

It doesn't have the cool story mode that caused all of us to comb the world for secrets and dragon balls to unlock skills, power ups, side events, and characters. You forget that the game released in an era where the primary audience of these games weren't faggots who exclusively played online multiplayer.

>webm

Is that supposed to be pointing out that the training mode AI won't hyper speed out of combos when told to stand still, or is it pointing out the diminishing returns for juggles in a game where you can just dodge or hyper speed out of combos?

>Budokai 3 or Infinite world or any other of the DIMPs games were made today they'd be torn to shit for being buggy broken messes

Is this the part where we pretend that modern games don't typically get patched to a state that's almost unrecognizable from the initial release? Or is it the part where we pretend a Budokai 3 remaster with Budokai 1-styled cutscenes wouldn't sell like hot cakes in comparison to other Dragonball games?


85ffa9  No.15829270

File: ae34d937e260bb5⋯.png (313.67 KB, 499x281, 499:281, areyoumad.png)

I have no idea why Goku is cool with Frieza running around. Super treats the events of Z like one big joke and it really sours the whole story.

How am I to believe that Frieza, the unconscionable monster that committed countless genocides and even killed Goku's best friend before throwing his last act of mercy back in his face, is now not on Goku's shit list. Yeah it happened a while ago, but I saw Goku's face after killing Frieza on Namek. I saw the hurt and I saw that every part of him wished there was a way to end it without killing Frieza but he realized that this was a person that had no possibility of redemption and that his survival would only cause continued suffering for all life.

That kind of person should have stayed dead. Barring that, Goku should have lied to his dumb ass and not let him come back to life. I don't care what stupid plan Toei has for making him Vegeta 2, it's a mockery of the entire Namek saga and makes it look like a complete farce in retrospective.

tl;dr fuck Frieza and fuck Toei


211a0c  No.15829674

>>15826914

I somehow forgot that Yamcha started off as a villain.


6babd2  No.15830203

>>15829270

I don't really know if I hate GT or Super more at this point.


704e78  No.15830225

>>15830203

GT didn't really fuck with too many things, its clearly superior.


737cf2  No.15830804

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

>>15829674

Just about everyone seems to start that way until Goku kicks their ass. Yamcha probably would have kept fighting had Bulma not shown up when she did.

>>15829270

>I have no idea why Goku is cool with Frieza running around

Buu killed his loved ones, Vegeta beat the shit out of Gohan and nearly killed him, Piccolo in his previous life got Roshi killed, 17 and 18 murdered everyone, and he still keeps them around. It also helps that the dragon balls are safe and he can always get them back now.

> it's a mockery of the entire Namek saga and makes it look like a complete farce in retrospective.

That's DB. Was Vegeta's redemption a mockery of the Saiyan saga? No. Was Piccolo's redemption a mockery of his saga in DB? No. The androids? No. That's just how this series works. Buu even stuck around. I'm just surprised they haven't been able to bring back Cell in some way. I thought he was popular enough.


221992  No.15830855

File: fd1d1d3c7ffd310⋯.jpg (153.47 KB, 698x960, 349:480, 19275030_879188588886051_6….jpg)

>>15795747

Yep, he lives in france.


221992  No.15830865

File: 67e9db8877d8376⋯.jpg (177.45 KB, 649x900, 649:900, dbz052.jpg)

And here we have Vegeta getting arrested by the french police for selling drugs.


221992  No.15830886

File: 4e81f8a9a214078⋯.jpg (326.14 KB, 960x679, 960:679, 1537612138132.jpg)

File: 919391a5fb6b4c5⋯.png (95.16 KB, 234x206, 117:103, vegeta is a nigger.png)


221992  No.15830909

File: a93d7a0df67fe97⋯.jpg (155.26 KB, 649x900, 649:900, dbz025.jpg)

And this is Vegeta stealing jewelry from an injured french woman.


221992  No.15830915

File: dd4a25e3a31a4d3⋯.jpg (180.93 KB, 698x960, 349:480, 22540146_940480976090145_4….jpg)

And this is… this is, I dunno, I give up, this is too much.


3127a6  No.15830983

>>15829270

We're talking about Goku, the guy who was super cool with his kid traveling halfway across the galaxy to revive his utter nemesis, who had previously had his best friend and first teacher killed. The guy who let Vegeta, indirectly responsible for the deaths of three of his friends, escape when Krillin could have ended him then and there. The guy who tried to spare Freeza, not for redemption, but to give him a chance to get stronger and fight again. Being cool with Freeza's revival is completely in character with him, as he's both confident he'll be able to stop whatever Freeza does, and he's always excited for another strong opponent to fight. If anyone shouldn't be okay with Freeza's revival, it should be fucking Vegeta, the guy who has always been super butthurt about the walking dildo.


91fe27  No.15831029

>>15829270

>But Goku has always been selfish!

He was so selfish that he went out his way to wish back a guy that he met in a day. He was so selfish that he carried a turtle back to the beach. So selfish that he let Piccolo shoot him to kill Raditz. He only cared about having a good fight. That is why he team up with Piccolo to fight Raditz instead of fighting him 1 on 1.


211a0c  No.15831109

>>15830855

That is so terrifying.


64fcb4  No.15831117

>>15829270

Because Goku has always put fighting a strong opponent above all else; even the safety of his planet. Goku is also the type of person to not hold grudges. Frieza no longer has any of his resources that made him such a universal threat and if he ever becomes such a threat again, I figure Jaco will come get Goku. I do agree that Frieza wasn't made out for joining forces with Goku and the gang and Toei should have used the spot to make a new character if no one else was strong enough for the tournament.

>Vegeta 2

Piccolo 3

>>15829674

Almost all of Gokus friends and allies started out using him when they first met or wanted to dominate or kill all life on his or some other planet.


3127a6  No.15831286

>>15831029

Pointing out that Goku has never, ever been one to hold a grudge is not saying that he's always been selfish. It's just that, of all the main cast, he would be the least likely to be upset with Freeza being revived, because he's not the kind of guy to go "grr, he's evil and done terrible things, I hate him." He's also always been way too confident in himself and his buddies, generally okay with taking big risks, because he's certain things will work out in the end. Being fine with Freeza's revival is completely in character for him. If you think it isn't, all I can say is that you're probably projecting your own interpretation of what Goku should be onto him, rather than what he actually is. Or it's been forever since you've read/watched the original series and your memories of it are clouded.


91fe27  No.15831377

>>15831286

>Pointing out that Goku has never, ever been one to hold a grudge is not saying that he's always been selfish.

I was shitting on the "Goku has always been selfish" meme. It was just a stupid excuse to not solve the plot's problem early.


0fbabf  No.15831582

>>15831377

>I was shitting on the "Goku has always been selfish" meme. It was just a stupid excuse to not solve the plot's problem early.

So, by your admission, it's literally part of the plot, and has been for a long time, and therefore is Goku's character at this point


91fe27  No.15831725

>>15831582

>So, by your admission, it's literally part of the plot, and has been for a long time, and therefore is Goku's character at this point

<Goku has always been selfish!

<He only started to act selfish when the plot demanded it in this certain point of the story so it is okay to flanderized the character.

I guess that TLJ was an accurate depiction of Luke Skywalker.


0fbabf  No.15832001

>>15831725

I mean I guess if you count that that's how he's been characterized for like 90% of the series, then sure


91fe27  No.15832044

>>15832001

>90% of the series

>The Cell arc and Buu arc is 90% series


3127a6  No.15832108

>>15832044

Not saying your general point is wrong, but have you seriously forgotten the one moment where Goku directly admitted he asking for something entirely selfish?


0fbabf  No.15832184

>>15832044

And the Frieza arc

And the Saiyan arc

And even a bit of dragonball

Goku's selfishness doesn't just come from his love of fighting above all else, it comes from his general ignorance of other people and near-complete inability to understand their perspectives outside of combat


91fe27  No.15832768

>>15832108

>but have you seriously forgotten the one moment where Goku directly admitted he asking for something entirely selfish?

1) It was to force a stupid rivalry.

2) Goku never killed in cold blood.

3) Goku is usually too stupid to think long term.

>>15832184

>Goku's selfishness doesn't just come from his love of fighting above all else, it comes from his general ignorance of other people and near-complete inability to understand their perspectives outside of combat

Goku is a literal retard. As a kid, he couldn't tell if someone is a male or female without touching someone's crotch.

This is where the meme started.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/wired-japan-1997-akira-toriyama-interview/

<Wired: There’s actually “poison” inside?

<Toriyama: Right. There’s how, basically, Son Goku from Dragon Ball doesn’t fight for the sake of others, but because he wants to fight against strong guys. So once Dragon Ball got animated, at any rate, I’ve always been dissatisfied with the “righteous hero”-type portrayal they gave him. I guess I couldn’t quite get them to grasp the elements of “poison” that slip in and out of sight among the shadows.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2015/03/27/new-interview-translations-akira-toriyama-special-talks/

<At any rate, I wanted him to have the sense of being that rare guy who seeks only “to become stronger than before”, so much so that it feels like “there’s no one as pure as this person”. And while he does end up saving everyone as a result of that, he himself at least has a very pure sincerity about “wanting to become stronger”. What I wanted to depict the most was the sense that he might not be a good guy at all, although he does do good things as a result.

This sounds more like an edgelord character rather than Son Goku.


0fbabf  No.15833141

>>15832768

>Goku is a literal retard. As a kid, he couldn't tell if someone is a male or female without touching someone's crotch.

No shit, practically his entire characterization can be described with "autistic savant", and that's not an excuse

>This sounds more like an edgelord character rather than Son Goku.

And it's how he's consistently been portrayed, with only a few outliers that could easily be explained away by any number of things


d5b90a  No.15833247

>>15831308

>dragonball thread

>shit is the most used cuss

It checks out.


91fe27  No.15833522

>>15833141

>and that's not an excuse

Excuse for what? For the exception of the Buu arc, Goku can't think long term.

>And it's how he's consistently been portrayed, with only a few outliers

You mean the most of the original DB? I bet that he was so excited to fight Tao Pai Pai after he killed Bora.


91fe27  No.15833667

>>15832108

>where Goku directly admitted he asking for something entirely selfish?

<Goku sparing Vegeta's life is proof that Goku is overall selfish just like how Goku spare the life of Freiza because he secretly wants to fight him again after he got super mad at him for killing his BFF.


3127a6  No.15833854

>>15833667

Did you miss the "not saying your general point is wrong" part of my post? You're also beginning to post like a spastic retard, which has me beginning to believe you're that faggot sarias.


91fe27  No.15834032

>>15833854

I am trying to make a point. In case, someone points out whole sparing Vegeta thing. I wanted to point out that he did the same thing for Freiza.


3127a6  No.15834100

>>15834032

>I wanted to point out that he did the same thing for Freiza.

And what exactly does that prove, that he almost made the same selfish decision twice? Doesn't that precisely go against what you're trying to argue?


16457a  No.15834651

>>15834100

<Oh boy! This Freiza fella is pretty strong but he killed Krillin. But I do like a good fight. Should I let this genocidal maniac live so I can fight him again?

If you genuinely think that this was his thought process, then you are a fucking retard.


3127a6  No.15836684

>>15834651

<Oh boy! This Vegeta fella is pretty strong but his buddy killed Yamcha, Chiaotzu, Tenshinhan, and Piccolo, plus he beat up me, my best friend, and my five-year-old son. But I do like a good fight. Should I let this planet-destroying maniac live?

That was his exact thought process when sparing Vegeta. He literally begs Krillin to spare the guy so that they could later fight again. And, when he spares Freeza, what does he tell him? "Get stronger and try fighting me again." Not "stop being a bad guy." Not "don't do this again, or I'm really gonna beat you up". He stopped fighting because he realized Freeza no longer had a chance at beating him, tried to impart his own life philosophy on the tyrant, then killed Freeza when he realized Freeza was just too stuck-up to accept being defeated and having to try again later.


91fe27  No.15839710

>>15836684

>That was his exact thought process when sparing Vegeta.

Again he was running away. He was going let Tao Pai Pai go when he was begging for life.

>And, when he spares Freeza, what does he tell him? "Get stronger and try fighting me again." Not "stop being a bad guy." Not "don't do this again, or I'm really gonna beat you up".

You are confusing DBS for DBZ.


90ed3a  No.15839822

>>15818446

>Trunks

Bulma would of when he was born, or did you forget that Trunks actually lived a year before the android attack


3127a6  No.15839918

>>15839710

I think you're confusing the Funimation dub for the actual original writing. When Goku begs Krillin to spare Vegeta, no where does he say, in the original Japanese, that it's for mercy or the right thing to do. He explicitly states it's because Vegeta is the most amazingly strong guy he's ever met and he wants to fight him again, and that he knows just how dumb and selfish that is. The only reason Krillin even complies is because Goku has done so much for the world and never gotten much for it, so he figured Goku deserved to get at least one selfish wish fulfilled. And yes, he does tell Freeza to train and face off against him again. He states that Freeza is at his limit from being at 100% power for too long, and now he's only getting weaker by the second. Freeza has no chance, and, therefore, Goku is doesn't see the point in continuing, so Freeza would be smart to get out of there, get stronger, and take on Goku again. The only act of mercy there was giving Freeza a second chance at winning. The Goku written by Toriyama is not the Goku that Funimation created. While he's not as selfish as others would claim, he definitely has put the chance of fighting a strong opponent above doing the smart, probably righteous thing.


69c83d  No.15841708

>>15839918

>When Goku begs Krillin to spare Vegeta, no where does he say, in the original Japanese, that it's for mercy or the right thing to do. He explicitly states it's because Vegeta is the most amazingly strong guy he's ever met and he wants to fight him again

I'm aware of that. I'm just saying that it has more to do with Goku's distain of killing in cold blood. Super apologists just make it sound like Goku usually kills badguys even when they have given up and only made an exemption for Vegeta because he was a "worthy opponent." It is not like a RR soldier dropped his gun and Goku broke his neck. He is certainly not a Superman that scouts around the world for badguys to stop but he isn't going to let someone get robbed at gunpoint in front of him. He does want people to reform as he is happy to hear that Majin Buu reincarnated into a good person and was genuinely upset that Vegeta allowed himself to get an evil power up. He isn't going to wish back Freiza for the sole purpose of fighting him again.

>He states that Freeza is at his limit from being at 100% power for too long, and now he's only getting weaker by the second. Freeza has no chance, and, therefore, Goku is doesn't see the point in continuing, so Freeza would be smart to get out of there, get stronger, and take on Goku again.

I was talking about the time Goku gave his energy to Freiza when he begged for help. He did it reluctantly. The 100% thing probably had something to do with the planet blowing up.

It is only because reckless writing especially with the DBS anime. In the ToP, Goku considered asking Zeno to call off the tournament and the series of events are presented more logically. The Roshi episode is only noteworthy because it been so long since the show showed Goku caring about anybody.


3127a6  No.15842382

>>15841708

>I'm just saying that it has more to do with Goku's distain of killing in cold blood.

If it did, he would have said so. Goku's an incredibly honest guy, and if his reasoning included that he didn't want to kill an already beaten foe, he would have noted as such, especially considering he was trying to convince Krillin to spare the guy. Sparing Vegeta is supposed to be the one time he, ironically, pulled a Vegeta, only it worked out in the long run for him because he's the protagonist.


64fcb4  No.15843070

>>15841708

>Goku considered asking Zeno to call off the tournament

Goku finally realized he has a problem?!


e1808d  No.15843366

File: e661bec234e24fb⋯.jpg (19.24 KB, 413x395, 413:395, 1533275503411.jpg)

>>15793314

>PalestineZ

Based and halalpilled


e1808d  No.15843439

It amazes me people are still surprised to find out how forgiving Goku is to his enemies just so he can experience the thrill of fighting and training to get better at it. Fighting is all he lives for, everything else is extra for him that he was dragged into, including marriage and school. He's a simple character to understand actually. Fighting is to Goku what meditation is to a Buddhist Monk, or even what drugs are to an addict.


e1808d  No.15843650

File: 8a1b75d97a2e237⋯.jpg (87.14 KB, 500x375, 4:3, 1523579858060.jpg)

>>15802896

Wrong.

SSJ3 > Rest don't even matter.


69c83d  No.15843978

>>15842382

>Sparing Vegeta is supposed to be the one time he, ironically, pulled a Vegeta, only it worked out in the long run for him because he's the protagonist.

It might have something to do with how what he is asking sounds stupid even for him so even a selfish reason is better. Also, there is a case of because of plot. Yamcha who wanted to use the Dragon Balls to wish to be able to talk to girls is apparently a playboy and cheats on Bulma.


3127a6  No.15844072

>>15843978

>It might have something to do with how what he is asking sounds stupid

You are really reaching to try and make Goku's decision to spare Vegeta look better than it really was. Goku knew Krillin was a good guy, and he's smart enough to know that appealing to Krillin's sense of morality would probably work better than just saying "I really want this for myself." It was a moment of weakness for Goku. It was the time he found a warrior so much like him, he knew he'd always get a good fight out of it. You have to remember, he had only recently learned he was a Saiyan and that the Saiyans were a warrior race. That probably made a few things about himself clear to him, and he understood that another Saiyan would probably make the best rival he would ever find. Goku having one moment of selfish weakness doesn't mean everyone that says he's an entirely selfish person is right, and it doesn't mean you have to strive to prove it wasn't selfish to prove them all wrong.


9072e8  No.15846059

>Goku only thinks about his enemies being strong and never cares if they kill anyone

<Goku not just killing 100 earthlings to spar with his stronger brother, the very first Super Saiyan scene because Frieza killed Krillin and literally the entire scene with Majin Vegeta at the World Tournament in both Kai and even the first series' fucking original Japanese sub long before his rage moment against Zamasu disproves this completely


418f5e  No.15849643

>>15844072

>You are really reaching to try and make Goku's decision to spare Vegeta look better than it really was.

1) Plot demands the characters act a certain way.

Everyone besides Bulma wanted to just wait until the Androids are awaken then everyone except Vegeta want to stop the Androids from awaking. Future Trunks said that 19 and 20 were going to attack then he said those were the wrong Androids. Bulma wanted to use the Dragon Balls to find Gero's lab but later she mentioned that she knew where it is when they mentioned Dr.Gero again.

2) Vegeta became popular so Toriyama spared him.

3) It was a stupid decision that just so happens to turn out for the best.

That is because Goku is a retard. I'm not saying that Goku is completely selfless and that act wasn't partly motivated by selfishness but Goku has a history of making the same decision for non-selfish reasons.

In fact, I would say that Goku's actions weren't out of character in DBS. It was just very very poorly presented. He would tolerate Hit but he wouldn't go out of his way to be Hit's friend like hiring Hit to kill him. He wouldn't be excited to fight in the ToP if they weren't allowed to wish back the Universes.




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