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Vidya Gaems
Winner of the 75nd Attention-Hungry Games
/caco/ - Azarath Metrion Zinthos

March 2019 - 8chan Transparency Report
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File: 76185a026744839⋯.gif (920.7 KB, 336x252, 4:3, RemorsefulLateBarracuda-sm….gif)

File: 02822d95ce9f3ce⋯.gif (2.67 MB, 502x250, 251:125, tenor.gif)

File: d62b44e1e0af97b⋯.gif (5.46 MB, 354x246, 59:41, godhand_azel_03.gif)

File: 7a3013b6018f1b6⋯.jpg (145.36 KB, 1280x720, 16:9, maxresdefault.jpg)

85a739  No.16358137

A Mirror Match boss is one that uses a lot of the same techniques as the player does throughout the game. In my opinion these bosses tend to be the best ones in the game and are often the hardest as well. Which are your favorites?

85a739  No.16358200


>Shadow Link from Ocarina of Time is easy but too much fun, so it is really worth mentioning.

I think they made it easier because Shadow Link in Zelda 2 was really challenging unless you cheesed the fight by using the corner trick.

b8e25a  No.16358209

Invidious embed. Click thumbnail to play.

Vergil/Nelo Angelo from DMC1/3/5, especially 1.

b70d4f  No.16360604

Least favorite examples are every time you fight another playable character in a Sonic game. Knuckles in Sonic & Knuckles, and a bunch of fights in Adventure, Adventure 2, and Heroes. Always the worst fights in the game.

ccf4d0  No.16360612


> and a bunch of fights in Adventure


366d5d  No.16360619

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.


In sanic no. 2 where u fight robot sanic that's breddy gud tbh

3c8697  No.16360999

File: fd1b6da991f461d⋯.png (608.56 KB, 673x417, 673:417, Link_vs._Dark_Link_The_Adv….png)

Zelda 2's shadow battle is my favourite. Part of it's nostalgic, no doubt, it was my first Zelda game and all, but it's also very thematic. The game is about finding the Triforce of Courage, so having the final battle be against your own dark self, overcoming your own fears in a way, was pottery Lucas could only dream of.

997858  No.16361192

In fact these bosses tend to be some of the worst in the games they are in because they rely entirely on behavioral programming to present something resembling a satisfying challenge, and they usually fail at it.

a3eb7e  No.16361223


>In fact

Bullshit nigger post proof

3b3dd6  No.16361230

File: a861dfe75aaaf29⋯.png (587.73 KB, 990x545, 198:109, 1.png)

File: 1dae43cc9467beb⋯.png (66.91 KB, 352x264, 4:3, 1dae43cc9467bebb741d1ea512….png)

File: d0f7a74c82cdc7a⋯.png (94.91 KB, 745x352, 745:352, 2.png)


someone should map these places

3b3dd6  No.16361231


wtf i didn't post the 2nd image?

7d4f6d  No.16361233


>they rely entirely on behavioral programming to present something resembling a satisfying challenge

I'm not even sure you yourself know what you're writing

497a71  No.16361246

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

sorry for kiketube but the bosses in bloodrayne were fun and this one was better but he cheesed it hard on easy mode with bloodrage.

85a739  No.16361324

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.


>Tend to be some of the worst in the games they are in

Azel fight is the best fight in Godhand. Excuse me?

7d4f6d  No.16361362

File: 73492c5164a8ee1⋯.png (28.46 KB, 185x96, 185:96, 9 11.png)


>Vergil 2

My absolute nigger

1dc584  No.16361411


You can almost smell the bachelors in psychology degree on his post.

b70d4f  No.16361441


But just from the video I can see that it's from Sonic & Knuckles. Though yeah there's another robot in both versions of Sonic 2. And CD. But none of them actually move quite like Sonic when you're playing as him. The Knuckles fight, though, actually has him move in a way that you could move if you were playing as him.


It's not that hard if you try. The pyramid is obviously Sandopolis Zone. The Death Egg crashes into the mountain, and then later in Lava Reef Zone we see where it crashed, so that's Lava Reef Zone. It also matches with Red Mountain from Sonic Adventure, which is clearly the mountain that Lava Reef Zone (and Hidden Palace) is in. Ice Cap is then at the peak of the mountain. Of course this isn't shown due to graphical limitations. Hydrocity is again inside, but that little hut you can see on the right side of the picture might be an entrance to it. It could be Marble Garden Zone. Angel Island Zone is just the forested coastal area. And uh… fuck it, Launch Base and Mushroom Hill are both on the other side of those mountains. Flying Battery, Sky Sanctuary, and Death Egg Zone are of course not actually part of the island.

997858  No.16361509


Basically, they tend to fall apart in any game that features projectiles. Mega Man (sorry no, every Zero fight in the entire franchise has always sucked ass), Metroid, Castlevania, etc. Dark Link has always been a shitty boss as well. The problem is attacks that are normally fast to favor the player become too fast to react to when used on the other end. Then it all comes down to making compelling predictable behavioral, which is very hard to do right and developers almost univerally fail at. If it's not predictable then it just amounts to the player flailing about until they win the who-can-reduce-health-the-fastest game. Beat 'em ups like God Hand are exceptions to the rule, not the norm.

85e231  No.16361539

File: 7463e70e8f05e08⋯.png (609.82 KB, 606x997, 606:997, ClipboardImage.png)


I always thought the Doppelganger fight in Guild Wars 1 was really cool, even if it just boiled down to you exploiting the AI by bringing a bunch of shitty skills.

85a739  No.16361546

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.


>Complaining the devs create a hard boss fight that don't just rely on you dodging slow telegraphed attacks

There's plenty of examples of games with fast bosses that are among the best fights in the game. This also isn't a rule there's plenty of examples of NPC fights that use a player anim set that don't use fast player attacks. Havel the Rock is a really good example. You can parry all of his attacks and they all have telegraphs despite using gear the player can obtain later in the game and attacks you can also do with the same weapon.

7d4f6d  No.16361583


First off, you don't know what the word compelling means and your pseudo intellectual schizo writing is annoying to read. Second, why exactly are you complaining about their AI, and what do you mean universally fail at it?

997858  No.16361638


I thought it was clear enough but you appear to be illiterate so I'll try to elaborate more. The problem is making predictable enemy behavior in order to make the boss fair. If it's a mirror fight featuring all the player's own abilities then that means the boss can be just as unpredictable as the player. And since control responsiveness considerations mean that the player usually has very fast abilities, this means the boss typically has things that are impossible for the player to react to. Thus, the developer needs to add in sets of behaviors to telegraph for the player in order to make the fight fair. And unfortunately, this is hard to do well and most developers fail. The biggest exceptions are unsurprisingly in melee-oriented games like beat 'em ups that are supposed to have deep close-range combat with lots of telegraphs that actually can be dealt with on reaction.

997858  No.16361646

File: 1b3e2afadf13127⋯.jpeg (169.47 KB, 1500x937, 1500:937, XTB-1.jpeg)

To really drive the point home, just contrast a mirror boss with a giant shmup boss. When your concern isn't in mirroring the player, you can feel free to put boss attacks wherever you'd like and properly telegraph them to the player with visuals (a turret moving indicating hazardous projectiles are going to originate from it for instance). With mirror battles, the constraints upon fair attacks are heavily reliant upon behavioral programming.

7d4f6d  No.16361675


>And unfortunately, this is hard to do well and most developers fail

And that's where you start pulling things out of your ass. Bosses with quick attacks and unpredictable movesets are very often the most fun fights in the games, telegraphing quick attacks is among one of the most basic game design rules there are, and as long as you add a little tell before the boss is going to do an attack that's normally impossible to react and the player has ways of avoiding said damage a mirror boss fight is possible on any genre.

Also you don't know what behavioral programming means, elaborate more is a redundant expression, control responsiveness considerations is just shit english and barely understandable. No seriously, your shit writing is pissing me off something fierce.

a3ac02  No.16361694


My immediate thought too. Exactly how Miyamoto programmed a boss that makes your movements, but faster is beyond me.

36715d  No.16361708

I don't like it for the simple reason of MMZ3, should have used MMX5 sprites in that battle for maximum mindfuck.

997858  No.16361728

File: 4900e4e3aab6840⋯.png (49.73 KB, 150x158, 75:79, X2 jumpan.png)

File: 583db379503031a⋯.png (1.07 MB, 126x124, 63:62, Circle of the Moon jumpan.png)

One of the issues with mirror bosses is that, because they're so reliant on behavioral programming, it's exceedingly common for them to have crippling exploits that make the bosses a joke.

d78945  No.16361734


nelo angelo in dmc1 is my personal favourite since so far, vergil in dmc3 feels kind of ass and you're reacting to his attacks and counterattacking rather than wailing on him and reacting on his counterattacks and I don't know how to deal with this DT without dropping style

a24e2d  No.16361736


>If it's a mirror fight featuring all the player's own abilities then that means the boss can be just as unpredictable as the player.

You've had the entire game to get familiar with their toolkit, unlike other bosses where you have to get familiar with their attacks during the fight.

If they also had long windups and obvious tells on top of using the moves you spent the entire game getting used to they'd be piss easy, m8.

ba1956  No.16362097

Some of these examples are rival battles, not mirror battles.


Vergil 2 is my favourite because I got into a real nice rhythm were me and Vergil are going back and forth. It was real fun.

965137  No.16362133

File: 0ba5604b09fa0c1⋯.png (1.3 MB, 1200x675, 16:9, ClipboardImage.png)

Not exactly the same, but he uses a lot of the same moves you have even the counters.

He's after all your father and mentor and one of the best bosses.

a26da5  No.16362144


>Pulseman, the first Rocket Knight Adventures and the SNES version


although axel in rocket knight adventures 2 for genesis was the apex of that battle.

ee0bad  No.16362150

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

This video doesn't do it justice.

ee0bad  No.16362151

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

ee0bad  No.16362157

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

ee0bad  No.16362168

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

Risky's Revenge is very fun.

They strip you of all your powers and have you fighting your doppelganger who has all your abilities but buffed up.

All you have left to fight with are power-ups and your basic attack.

3c8697  No.16362173

File: efcc70fa669b5db⋯.jpg (295.62 KB, 1024x1954, 512:977, screen001_nm.jpg)

File: ff4ac369bc82c3c⋯.jpg (297.43 KB, 1024x1954, 512:977, screen002_nm.jpg)


Seeing the Dopplebanger show up in Underworld with wearing black leather, bigger tits and with fucking red hair was a huge boner moment for me.


ee0bad  No.16362178

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.


I like him because he's an incredibly weak sub-boss and the only sub-boss in the game. He even has his health cut by 40%

It's one of those bosses which are so weak I end up having more fun messing around with them than killing them in 5 seconds.

Plus I love the fact that he's pink. It's incredibly cute, along with the fact he's weak.

ee0bad  No.16362192

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

Best doppelganger "fight" in the history of "fights".

dcf7c7  No.16362193

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

Mirror/Rival battles are my absolute favorite vidya cliché, especially if they are also the final boss.

cabf83  No.16362201

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

Here's one from an underrated game.

ee0bad  No.16362202

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

Ok that's a lot. I had no idea there were so many.

ee0bad  No.16362203

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

b70d4f  No.16363302

I liked Fake Crash. Only if you 100% Crash 3, but keep playing, do you get to see Crash's down syndrome brother hidden in two out of bounds areas in levels. Try as you might, you can never interact with him. But I sure spent a lot of time trying. Then in CTR you do the Gem Cups and unlock the bosses, thinking with the fifth Gem Cup you'll unlock the fifth and final boss. Nope. Fake Crash. I wonder what Naughty Dog would have done with him if they made another game. By that point he'd probably be a notable enough character that he would be more than secret.

b738a5  No.16363347

File: 35bfe7c1cc8788f⋯.png (Spoiler Image, 7.39 KB, 653x400, 653:400, Pong-653x400.png)


740fc8  No.16363391

In the Ultra mod for Nuclear Throne if you're carrying two cursed weapons and on a loop it'll (potentially) spawn a boss called You? who has the same gear as you can use your character's abilities and has the same mutations as you.

It's pretty cool until you're cheesing the laser disperse gun and Eyes' ultra mutation since it essentially lets you just hold an infinitely long laser melee and your clone does the same thing and you both just instantly fucking kill eachother

4ac06e  No.16363437


> Extended

I fucking hate this trend of uploading game music and looping the track 40 fucking times. If I want to loop it, I can put it on a fucking loop. Don't make me download 40 times the goddamn data. Some tracks are actually harder to find in a non-extended format than extended. Or they're fucking modified like this one that took the regular theme and added a fucking horrible reverb effect: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXgAj5KdAC0

I honestly can't find a "Battle! Champion" from Pokemon gen 1 that's not modified or extended. How fucking horrible.

cd6446  No.16363455

FFIV Mount Ordeals:

Dark Knight Cecil vs. Paladin Cecil

007449  No.16363456

In Afro Samurai you get to fight a cyborg copy of yourself in air.

7333a3  No.16363509

File: 64d112d89ac461c⋯.jpg (93.61 KB, 1920x1080, 16:9, Furi The Edge.jpg)

All he needed was better music. This boss is a tutorial into advanced melee tech.

85a739  No.16363627

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.


Fun fact Gen 1 was originally supposed to end with the player fighting Professor Oak at the end. And he'd have a full massive party with a fully evolved version of the starter neither you or Gary chose. This fight was cut but the data was left in and can still be triggered using a glitch

d88ef2  No.16363686


That's just a children's myth. Hacks don't prove anything.

30e53f  No.16363697


>reading comprehension

85a739  No.16363699


It's not a hack, it's in the vanilla game and can be performed via a glitch in both R&B and Yellow. Why would it contain data sets for 3 separate fights with Professor Oak all varying on your starter choice? This isn't the only evidence of dummied out content in Gen 1, far from it.

4ba825  No.16364840

File: 6ae9a6bd153891b⋯.png (94.26 KB, 704x448, 11:7, dural.png)

Dural uses various moves from ALL the other characters.

d78945  No.16364843


>advanced melee tech

pretty sure furi is a shmup

85a739  No.16365073

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

Mortal Kombat's Shang Tsung shapeshifts into all of the different opponents in the game to do their special moves

c0a3d8  No.16365110

File: bcffe8d8d02e32b⋯.mp4 (2.13 MB, 424x600, 53:75, 54 Final Battle! (Rival).mp4)


To be fair, there's a number of OSTs where the actual length devoted to them on the official album is without a doubt abysmal, leaving fan extensions to fill the demand instead (like Wild Arms 2; great music, but the OST itself derided for ending just as the loop starts).

>I honestly can't find a "Battle! Champion" from Pokemon gen 1 that's not modified or extended. How fucking horrible.

Have you tried somewhere that isn't jewtube as a music source? Also that video you linked sounds like it sourced the track from the "Game Boy Pokemon Sound Collection", which was the official OST for Red and Green released 1997, as opposed to a fan modifying it. And that's not the only song on there with reverb. One should keep in mind there can be a quality difference between what was originally composed for a game versus what the game/game system itself was capable of rendering it as. Anyhow, I assume you're looking for something closer to how it actually played from the game.

1b3bec  No.16365164


There's only one song that works with the extended meme.


155b59  No.16365181


Came here to post this.

4ac06e  No.16369034


>Have you tried somewhere that isn't jewtube as a music source?

I tried. Can't find a good one. At that rate, I'd probably be better off recording it from an emulator.

1ab89d  No.16369204

File: 4230ee2da317ccc⋯.png (282.66 KB, 1272x176, 159:22, fucking LOL....png)

File: bcda3d96a325f43⋯.jpg (34.74 KB, 408x327, 136:109, wuuuut.jpg)


>Mirror match bosses

Does MK11 copying all the bad things from SFV count?

c0a3d8  No.16369383


khinsider has a section with a decent music selection for vidya in general (also a minor focus in anime OSTs), and they do have numerous Pokemon related official albums. It's where I found the audio for that mp4 up there. That said, most of their stuff are mp3 uploads and thus lossy (though some will have both mp3 and FLAC), and they do have an always growing blacklist of no longer supported works as they get hit with DMCAs as rights owners suddenly realize they do actually care about potential for losing shekels.

068c8c  No.16369493

i dont like these battles, theres too much at stake. its not just the world on the line, but your identity. how people remember you.

4ec335  No.16369558

They're cool narrative moments in games that aren't fighting games, but often are plagued by cheating AI bullshit like them always having attack priority or input reading frame perfect blocks and dodges.

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