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File: 6cf3964588397de⋯.jpg (14.68 KB, 301x128, 301:128, wow.JPG)

7e2a68  No.16528224

So, why remake vanilla instead of just releasing Vanilla?

7e2a68  No.16528241


Thousands of people have been playing vanilla just fine in 2019.

419fa7  No.16528252

Which patch? Vanilla lasted quite a while, and had numerous bugs and oddities, like Tauren not being able to enter Molten Core normally because they were too big.

b096e5  No.16528253

Why make a faggot OP when you can get doubles?

44a150  No.16528255

File: 6fc40933f799aa9⋯.jpg (1.69 MB, 1595x2000, 319:400, SophieAndersonTakethefairf….jpg)

I heard that they don't actually have any old data from those days because all of the mechanics and numerical values were handled on the server side which got wiped since they didn't need them.

The private servers that you see are merely interpretations of what it may have been like, but it's hardly accurate.

So what Blizz probably doing is redesigning everything by looking up wowhead and the like to (hopefully) make it as authentic as possible.

No source, so take it with a grain of salt.

But if they did have full data on vanilla (besides client stuff like models and textures), don't you think it would have been out already?

1bb974  No.16528257


no they aren't. they are the same.

1bb974  No.16528259


they didn't get wiped. that would be suicide

b096e5  No.16528261

File: 84e496d55b60790⋯.jpg (123.52 KB, 1280x720, 16:9, 84e496d55b60790f4b075580f2….jpg)


Youre giving them way too much credit

ea13f2  No.16528264


>But if they did have full data on vanilla

Why are you classic shills flipping insane every time you type something? People from their homes are able to host vanilla wow. Blizzard can't? lol

44a150  No.16528273

File: cfe3805e05eee93⋯.jpg (299.14 KB, 1072x2145, 1072:2145, Falero_Luis_Ricardo_Lily_F….jpg)


Credit for being retarded?

The point is that they can never recreate vanilla properly because no one knows all of the values.


And why would they store stuff like HP, armour, spawn rate, density, item drop rates and damage values of a level 10-13 kobold (all of that stuff was handled by the server)?

For future generations?

That kind of forward thinking didn't exist back when Cata came out and they remade the whole world.


You misunderstand.

I don't give a crap about classic and it's going to be about as accurate (or likely even less) than what you got on something like Nostalrius because they have to make it more accessible for the current year audience.

1bb974  No.16528275

wow hits me in the feels, but i find it somewhat crazy that was the only good game able to be made since 04

ee86a7  No.16528277

Because they obviously want to use their modern back-end and client, instead of having to support two drastically different systems. Better question is why do you retards still care about this desperate cash grab?

b7bdff  No.16528315


>Because they obviously want to use their modern back-end and client, instead of having to support two drastically different systems

First post that actually answers the question. Thread over.

fa970c  No.16528416


like every other private server it's going to be based on 1.12 with progression.


==SUPPOSEDLY== They have a build of 1.12 laying around but nothing else. I say this SUPPOSEDLY

They're going to fuck this up, let's not lie. However classic will be a boon for the private server community if they truly have working 1.12 source. With classic being there they'd have more documentation with an actual client. It might lead to scrapping cores that you know but would in the long run end up creating a closer to 1:1 of the actual product in terms of mechanics

bf2f3c  No.16528421

ITT Blizzcuck paypiggies discuss why they'll only waste 8 hours a day on this garbage instead of 12

f5f23d  No.16528437


Because they want Battle.net integration, with your bnet ID, your friend list, their shitty launcher/chat program, and all that shit rolled into the experience. It's why they won't release a D2 remaster: they don't actually have the source code for that, and thus won't be able to let players who own the original D2 play with the D2 remaster.


They said they had all the information laying around and that when they initially tried to copy paste a version of 1.12 on their live architecture, everything worked well on the first attempt. I have no idea which streamer gave you your opinion, but he was wrong.

1cbc16  No.16528521

Played on Northdale, was a pretty good run before i quit after tier 2. I never was able to get past tier 2 in real vanilla because my server was bunk but I wanted to see if I could. Spent too much time playing up through tier 2 though it was fun on a pserver, so I quit figuring the ease with which I handled those raid tiers would mean that tier 2.5 and 3 wouldnt be too difficult. My guild is just about to down KT on ND so while i'm not there im satisfied that I could have.

3d78b7  No.16528529


Jesus fucking christ what the fuck am I reading. What the fuck are you talking about.

The source code for WoW got leaked multiple times. The code got leaked multiple times.

People gathered data by packet sniffing and other things. Every few updates Blizzard accidentally pushes something they're not supposed to and people grab it. It's impossible to be 100% blizzlike but it's not impossible to be very close. That's why the different cores exist. You are literally retarded.

1cbc16  No.16528551


>classic will be a boon for the private server community

Except servers are literally shutting down in response to classic launch. And the servers that do exist will have <500 people playing on them.

One of the things that saved pserver vanilla was the fact that they were global servers which meant that the world constantly had 10k+ people on them. This was great for recapturing the vanilla feel imo. ND launch had 14k people out the starting gate which was honestly an amazing experience, but they are going to "layer" the entire launch up until kazzak comes out which is fucking insanely retarded. Not to mention their phase system for content release means that DM will be out on release which makes MC even more trivial than it already is which destroys the joy of early game progression. In an experienced guild they will be able to steamroll MC within first week of launch in quest greens anyway, but the baddies will have all the DM loot they need to down MC content making the already trivial first raid tiers even more trivial.

Pservers are incredibly close to actual vanilla values, and the blizzard folks scoffing that they pserver people didnt crack some arbitrary variable to define where onyxia's breath rotation came from reeked of an increasingly nervous dev team who realized their game was very successfully cloned by enthusiasts.

1333c9  No.16528592

>when the only people hating on classic are current subscribers

>when they're purely assmad that the original version of the game they've been playing for the last 10 years will wipe out retail's popularity

Try not to be such bitter fucking cunts about it, we know it's epic how many hours you spent putting points on your weapons but kindly fuck off for once

f3fcce  No.16528609

If/when Classic is successful, do you think Blizzard might start changing BFA to try and recapture some of the old design that made it much better? Or do you think they'll use Classic as an excuse to dumb and water down retail even harder?

00003b  No.16528612

File: afaef1d4e66c541⋯.jpg (167.78 KB, 1181x1748, 1181:1748, 0fc2de031a50bbfc809f7c356c….jpg)

You fucking autists have 10 seconds to explain to me how you justify paying an exorbitant subscription fee every month for the privilege of playing a game you already paid for.

Not only that, justify how you have paid this subscription for a decade and a half like good paypigs, and have a weird superiority complex about people who like a different version of the wallet rape than you do.

2ade53  No.16528620


If they change their development mindset (they won't) it won't be until the next expansion.

9ee60e  No.16528621


>confirmed for only playing on private servers

On actual retail vanilla players were far more casual and laid back than autistic pserver spergs.

On my server there were less than 40 people on each faction at 60 by the time Dire Maul came out, and only one guild had even downed Rag by the time BWL came out.

Most people dicked around and enjoyed the ride. Instead of grinding hard to 60, you explored and did crossroads raids at level 30 for the hell of it, and when you finally did get to 60 you'd raid Ogrimmar instead of Molten Core.

Pserver fags who play 100 hours a week and only care about raid progression are the cancer that will ruin Classic WoW as well.


I quit vanilla between AQ and Naxx patches, and never subscribed since. though i was a retard who bought D3 thinking it might be good

f3fcce  No.16528622


Oh, hey, Jamie. It's nice to see you're still posting.

2ade53  No.16528628


Ah the good ol days where T0 was widely considered pre raid BIS

fa970c  No.16528631


>servers are shutting down

just the cucked ones. there will ALWAYS be servers for expansions. There are fucking BfA private servers RIGHT NOW

1333c9  No.16528632


>he thinks $15 a month is exorbitant

>50 cents a day is exorbitant

Are you on disability?

9ee60e  No.16528633


I was one of the few people who realized that spellpower was better than int. Shit was hilarious when I did 2x the damage as the mages with 7k mana.

fa970c  No.16528641


Problem with your complaining is that dire maul was out a long ways back, way to confirm yourself for playing on private servers where talents and everything are stuck on 1.12.

eae1b7  No.16528651

File: d266da62651e724⋯.png (490 KB, 500x750, 2:3, 1471432607704.png)


to be fair blizzard asking monthly for an old relic comes off greedy and some people just dont want to support them.

On the other hand I would prefer just to have it buy 2 play.

bf2f3c  No.16528655


The fact that niggers like you post here is reason enough to hate anything Blizzard related, legacy or otherwise.

3db23f  No.16528664


Are you defending Blizzard for free? I pay 5 dollars a month for gigabytes of data, why the fuck would Blizzard need triple the amount for a fraction of that traffic?

00003b  No.16528668


Explain why you subscribed to begin with.


>Pay a daily tax to use the product you already own

Do you even read your own sentences back to yourself before you post?

Yes $15 is fucking exorbitant. Do you even hear yourself right now? King Jews microkike and soyny don't charge even half that much every month for their rip off services.


I'll say "Who?" but obviously that doesn't mean anything on an anonymous board and you are free to disbelieve me.

fa15b2  No.16528674


They also have to redo their server/client architecture due to massive changes that were implemented later. The vanilla WoW client downloaded and installed the game in a fundamentally different way than the modern client. After that they spend a bunch of time deciding what new features they're going to port back to vanilla, because they don't think people want a genuine vanilla experience.


You underestimate the retardation of the managerial class, anon.

9ee60e  No.16528677


because I was 14 and I was given WoW as a christmas present in 2004.

f7403e  No.16528678

I'm gonna check it out because I still have like a hundred tokens from when I played WoD

Still, I think I'm going to have to play on EU servers because NA/EU battle.net accounts don't share the servers or accounts. Is that right? That turns me off because fuck playing with russian animals.

f5f23d  No.16528680


My main issue with the more popular private servers was that they were overpopulated. The game wasn't designed to handle over 5k players online, much less 10k, much less 10k crammed into the starter zones. Even 100 players in the starting areas feels like way too much. As such, I fully approve of layering, especially if the alternative is to do stupid shit like leveling through exploring or making groups to kill lvl 5-6 mobs at lvl 1. Also, all of vanilla content is trivial. MC will be cleared in the first week or two because it's a fucking joke. Any guild with half a brain will aim to underman MC to get extra loot/bindings.


The live devs are both incompetent and clueless. The "don't you guys have phones?" comment was an all-encapsulating answer to showcase their thought process. All of their talented designers have been jumping ship for years, and it shows.


I was one of the few Paladins that realized Paladins were amazing healers and shit for tanking and DPS. I kept showing up to Strath/Scholo/UBRS raids in cloth healing gear, yet people would always bitch at me for trying to take healer loot.


15$ is a price paid with the understanding that a major portion of Blizzard's profit goes towards creating new content. All of vanilla's content is already created, they don't have an army of artists or GMs to pay. This means that the 15$ a month price is more than what should be asked for. As for myself, I'll reluctantly pay that if means being able to play vanilla without chinks, buggy mechanics is there a single private server that has every Warlock spell and pet ability working properly? or just Rage generation numbers for Warriors/Berserker Rage?, corrupt GMs that sell gold/characters and create items, or the server randomly closing after a few months and thus invalidating my time investment.

9ee60e  No.16528690


Vanilla wow had overspawning for starter zones. Goldshire abbey had a respawn time of like 1 second on launch, but as soon as you went into the big world, spawns went back to the normal 5 minute+ timer.

This is one of the many things private servers never got correct.

1333c9  No.16528698

File: d0e8cadad837abc⋯.gif (480.73 KB, 499x315, 499:315, 1551128641764.gif)

File: 665b0bbc8a22b0f⋯.jpg (16.27 KB, 400x289, 400:289, 1547849087771.jpg)

Looks like I touched a nerve with that disability comment


>On the other hand I would prefer just to have it buy 2 play.

Well that's cool but nobody cares what you prefer. If you don't want it you won't pay it


I'm sorry sir, but your inability to pay 15/month for your entertainment leads me to believe you are the one here who is literally a nigger


>I pay 5 dollars a month for gigabytes of data, why the fuck would Blizzard need triple the amount for a fraction of that traffic?

Are you fucking retarded? Do you think the price of a digital good is only tied to how much data it is?


>Yes $15 is fucking exorbitant. Do you even hear yourself right now? King Jews microkike and soyny don't charge even half that much every month for their rip off services.

So you're on disability? I earn $200/day, why would I be crying about 15 a month?


>15$ is a price paid with the understanding that a major portion of Blizzard's profit goes towards creating new content.

Weird, where does it say that?

>15$ is a price paid with the understanding that a major portion of Blizzard's profit goes towards creating new content.

I mean god damn you broke fucking niggers, it's $15

2b0d57  No.16528705

File: 5db1373ac3aa54e⋯.png (176.43 KB, 606x539, 606:539, cunts.png)

People had asked for vanilla forever and Blizzard dragged their feet, they will probably hamstring this with modern actiblizz's horseshit that ruined wow just so they can say, See people don't like it!

That or somehow make it for mobile phones.

fa970c  No.16528720


>It's just 15 dollars

Runescape membership is like 10 a month and that membership works for both OSRS and RS3 (if you want to play that shit)

in all honesty, disposable income or not, 15 a month for rehashed content is just blah, just down the sub to 10 a month because lord knows by cheapening it they'll probably rake more people back into BfA

f5f23d  No.16528731


>where does it say that

It's something that Blizzard themselves said around the original launch time. The yearly server upkeep and paying their classic skeleton crew are just a drop in the bucket, and most likely could be paid with less than 2000 subs.

9ee60e  No.16528735


IIRC they're bundling the subscription for both games as $15 a month. Having an option to choose "only classic" for cheaper would be more consumer friendly, but there's 0 chance they'll do that.

1333c9  No.16528738


>Runescape membership is like 10 a month

And a gallon of milk is 2.99, what's your point? Different things have different prices, is this a revelation to you?

>because lord knows by cheapening it they'll probably rake more people back into BfA

Ahhhh I see now, are you a current retail subscriber who's upset that classic is taking over retail in popularity?


>he yearly server upkeep and paying their classic skeleton crew are just a drop in the bucket, and most likely could be paid with less than 2000 subs.

So I should be upset that a company is making money?

2ade53  No.16528746


You should certainly be upset about actiblizz making money

1333c9  No.16528750


Why? They're offering a service that I'm willing to exchange 1/13th of my DAILY income for a month of use of their service

f5f23d  No.16528754


You should be upset that they're overcharging by such a large degree. I'm hoping that there will be a less expensive Classic-only subscription option, as I'm sure a lot of other potential players are.

9ee60e  No.16528755


tfw someone is so retarded you can't tell if they're a blizzard shill, or just pretending to be one.

1333c9  No.16528764



>50 cents a day

Do you have a job?


I'm sorry anybody who's not too poor to afford .50/day automatically makes them a shill

1333c9  No.16528768


>paying 15/month to waste time running on a virtual treadmill like some godforsaken autistic hamster

You realize we're on a board for video games, right? You'd best rethink your argument if you're trying to make it about wasting time

1333c9  No.16528772

File: b7f5cb3a12b117e⋯.jpg (44.25 KB, 600x312, 25:13, 1548370301223.jpg)

>all these raging disabililbabbies

Classic isn't for you, there's free private servers for you, maybe McDonalds will let you use their free wifi for it if your disability is too little to afford your own internet as well. I know it's such a burden

1cbc16  No.16528778


>On my server there were less than 40 people on each faction at 60 by the time Dire Maul came out

Bullshit, unless you are a euro whose WoW release was delayed by three months compared to the NA release. That or your server was completely dead. Vanilla release was late Nov 2004, 1.3 which is DM was March 2005. That's plenty of time for even the mild nolifers to hit 60.

>Pserver fags who play 100 hours a week and only care about raid progression are the cancer that will ruin Classic WoW as well.

Raids are insanely easy. The real fun comes from the raiding guild rivalries that form on a server. Waiting at the BRM gates for your rival guild to show up during their raid time (after you quick clear your raid planned for that day) was incredibly fun.


I did MC before MC actually released back in the day. For those who aren't aware, you could actually zone into MC in 1.0 before the 1.1 release of the raid. The trash was heavily overtuned so the first pull which is two molten giants were incredibly tough and about all we could handle at the time since it was intended to be overtuned to prevent player intrusion. We farmed these two giants for t1 belts/bracers before 1.1 released. It was pretty fun. This is my experience playing real vanilla when pre-1.12 talents made things actually difficult. I agree that 1.12 talents made early raid tiers trivial, DM loot even more so.


Honestly, the only real problem with the high server pops of pservers came from the devilsaur mafias that formed (which were cool emergent properties tbh) and the really really campable vanilla black lotus spawns. To do any sort of t3 raiding you need to have 40 players flasked, and you only realistically got black lotus from AV pops. Unless you can AV queue hunt like you can on pservers, black lotus is going to be an absolute nightmare unless its instantly tradeable which is what I think is going to happen.

b7bc24  No.16528794


You get the same amount of FOMO with a re-release than a remake.

9ee60e  No.16528809


I was on a smaller server, but the majority of people who played back then had jobs or school they had to focus on.

Also reminder that average 60 time back then was closer to 14 days played back then due to combination of lack of knowledge and lack of desire to focus grind to 60 instead of enjoying the ride.


>raids are insanely easy

>the first pull which is two molten giants were incredibly tough and about all we could handle

>To do any sort of t3 raiding you need to have 40 players flasked

choose one

You remember the raids as easy because pserver fags enter all overgeared with 1.12 talents, flasks, and having done the raid 9000 times before. When you go in with partial greens/t0 and having to take along level 59 people because that's all you can scrounge up its a lot harder. People people rarely used consumables like flasks back then. First time we used flasks was for our first rag clear. Not to mention most raids were both hilariously bugged and started with higher stats before being nerfed down for later versions like 1.12.

Also if you actually played classic, you'd know that Molten Core trash dropped t2 gear and not just t1 belts/bracers.

f7403e  No.16528818

File: 8e3ab32a8adecb2⋯.png (240.96 KB, 384x452, 96:113, 1553099640438.png)


>Do you have a job?

I'm 25 and never worked a day in my life.

1cbc16  No.16528845


To reiterate: I played vanilla from open beta through WOTLK & I played Northdale.

I can tell you havent raided because raiding is insanely easy AND you require flasks. These aren't opposite thoughts. t3 raiding requires inordinate amounts of consumables but that does not make the encounters themselves difficult. The things that made naxx the difficult thing that it was was the brick wall of 4H and the 8 tank requirement and the need for frost resistance for saph.

>the first pull which is two molten giants were incredibly tough and about all we could handle

Please reread what I said. MC released in 1.1, but you COULD access the instance in 1.0 where the trash was overtuned compared to release because they were trying to keep people out of the zone. However you could kill the giants to get t1 drops like we did. Molten giant loot tables only have t1 belt/bracers you mongoloid, so your point about t2 drops is irrelevant.

Gear doesnt matter one lick in early raid tiers. The only thing that matters is that your group has mana potions. If you have demonic runes and major manas being used on cooldown, then your mp5 on average is greater than if you were in t3 gear without using consumables.

>rarely used consumables like flasks

I cleared BWL in vanilla but AQ40 is where my vanilla guild broke. We absolutely did use flasks. I cant speak to your server because it sounds like a dead server, but mine was a random med pop server and we definitely flasked up the tanks.

There was only one raid that was nerfed and that was Cthun, so I don't know what you're talking about.

699d9b  No.16528864


>Pserver fags who play 100 hours a week and only care about raid progression are the cancer that will ruin Classic WoW as well.

This is absolutely true. Last few days some IRL friends who never played wow before started playing on a private server and asked me to join. They were just fucking around exploring shit and having fun, me on the other hand just wanted to go to max level and minmax shit. The old feeling just wasn't there, I knew every nook and cranny of the world and every mechanic. All the fun has been sucked out of it for me and it felt like a job. Worst thing is that 90% of people on pservers are like that. I wish i could play a mmo for the first time too and have fun.

994238  No.16528867

They probably threw out vanilla and are too afraid to ask one of the many private servers for a copy

9ee60e  No.16528872


Molten Core dropped t2 loot early on. It was nerfed later to drop only t1 stuff after a few patches. Saying gear doesn't matter but flasks are required is also contradictory. They're literally 2 means to the same goal of not having your tank die in 1 hit, and getting enough dps to properly burn down bosses like rag before you're overwhelmed by lava spawns (which oh, was another thing that was nerfed if you actually played the game. Original Rag shitted those things out like crazy)

1cbc16  No.16528874


Try playing a healer.

1333c9  No.16528900


Have you played OSRS? Try doing a couple quests without a guide and you'll get that feeling again

1cbc16  No.16528920


MC always dropped t2 gear. Rag drops pants. If there was t2 gear dropped at another point we never encountered it because it must have changed rather quick. Farming MC trash in 1.0 always gave us t1 belt/bracers.

You're misunderstanding what I'm saying.

Tier 1: No flask or gear requirement. Consumables required.

Tier 2: PreBiS / tier 1 gear requirement, no flask requirement (Until Chromaggus, then tank flask is helpful). Consumables required for early clears.

Tier 2.5: Flask recommended, but not required until Cthun. T2 gear required. Consumables recommended.

Tier 3: Full requirements. Consumables mandatory.

DM loot was better than t1 loot for many classes. I know that as a priest there was only a few pieces of t1 loot that were worth using and that was only until BWL patch when the itemization for t1 changed and pretty much every t1 piece for priest becomes awful besides maybe bracers.

Lava spawns were a joke of a mechanic. I did it in vanilla as a tank and in a pserver as a healer. They were not overwhelming. A properly FR geared tank tanking lava spawns takes next to no damage at all. The only danger from lava spawns comes from one or two going around burning your raid's mana with their aoe mana burn. So from a healer perspective I just stood away from them. They were not as difficult as you imply.

9ee60e  No.16528948


>no gear requirement

> A properly FR geared tank

pick one. also you're talking about post nerf spawns.

pre-nerf they spawned like 2x as many

Not to mention there was barely any worthwhile fire resist gear till they nerfed rag around BWL release. Other bosses also had majorly bugged mechanics, such as Garr going into perma-erage mode and respawning the adds, golemagg doing like 2x damage pre-1.4, etc.

And yes Molten Core originally dropped both t1 and t2 sets. This was changed in patch 1.4.

Actual vanilla WoW at launch was radically different from the private server experience that you're basing your assumptions on.

Idk what DM loot has to do with any of this, since the majority of people were raiding with half t0 half random shitty items anyway. Very different experience when tanks were constantly getting crits and crushing blows since they were running around at 300 def and no resists.

9ee60e  No.16528961

Also reminder that most classes abilities were buffed considerably in later patches, and that talents pre-1.12 were absolute garbage.

1.12 tuning/talents makes everything a joke.

fa970c  No.16528965


some of the DM stuff is pre-raid BiS in some cases, the barbarous blade for example is an amazing stat stick for hunters

eae1b7  No.16528969

File: 61ef8576b6feb8c⋯.gif (2.03 MB, 640x360, 16:9, 1471432607724.gif)


Well yeh, I dont want to pay monthly so I wont pay for it, I would buy it if it was buy 2 play.

That stuff is a deal breaker for me.

9ee60e  No.16528970


ok but what's your point?

if there's no gear requirement then why does it matter?

1333c9  No.16528984


Okay cool, I am happy I won't have to worry about encountering you

fa970c  No.16528990


makes shit easier and a lot of min-max fags will head there

3c397a  No.16528993

Blizzard probably lost all the old version of wow. Funny how private servers will be more true to classic than the company that owns the IP.

3c397a  No.16529027

>blizzard is shilling in this very thread

00003b  No.16529038


>15$ is a price paid with the understanding that a major portion of Blizzard's profit goes towards creating new content.

Content that you still have to fucking pay for when it releases.

What's wrong with all you people ITT?

1333c9  No.16529121


>What's wrong with all you people ITT?

No really, are you on disability? How much money do you make?

6d81ff  No.16529177

You're all niggers. I'm going to play classic with my bros. I'm going to have fun. Check my doubles.

1cbc16  No.16529271


>pick one. also you're talking about post nerf spawns.

Listen, since youre being purposely obtuse I'll spell it out for you simply. The better your raid team is, the less you need gear to carry you through raids. Our tank did our first clear of MC on ND with a 2 hander (aka no shield). So FR gear for the tank becomes useful the less skilled your group is, but is hardly a requirement like it is in later raids. People get the gear anyway even if it isnt required just to make the time requirement for raids less so. My guild does MC in 30-45 minutes and we just run through without stopping to drink once.

2a810b  No.16529288

File: 06948b1dfd720e0⋯.png (1.44 MB, 1248x855, 416:285, wow goldpile.png)


>play classic with my bros.

Either you're lying or your a blizzard employee, anon.


>I dont want to pay monthly so I wont pay for it, I would buy it if it was buy 2 play.

Cucks tend to overlook that this WoW game isn't just a "subscription" service product. It use to require you to buy the base game which use to run you around $40 then you had to buy the subscription fee which is still $14.99 per monthly charge, in total costing you roughly $55 then ontop of that they'll release "expansions" every 2 years that'll cost you around $60, aka more then the base game.

So, every year on concurrent sub fee alone you'll be spending around $179.88 and when an expansion is released that year you'll then be spending $239.88. In other words: your spending more on a single video game in one year then most fucks would during a steam summer sale. Now add up how much income the company would receive from only 1k active subscriptions and you'll get why the company hasn't shut down the game even after the backlashes of WoD and Cataclysm expacs.


>won't be until the next expansion.

<2007 (Burning Crusade)

<2008 (Wrath of the Lich King)

<2010 (Cataclysm)

<2012 (Mist of Pandaria)

<2014 (Warlords of Dreanor)

<2016 (Legion)

<2018 (Battle for Azeroth)

<2020 (Some void lord shit with a new class+race)

c140a8  No.16529302


I skipped six expansion, that's a lot.

I regret nothing.

f5f23d  No.16529313


>8 tank requirement for 4H

Nice meme.

>using flasks in BWL

On the tanks, sure. At least for progress. On DPS or healers? Hell no. Every now and then some DPS would use a flask, but it was a rarity. Even using elixirs or major mana potions was rare unless it was progress and we were close to a kill. You were expected to use health pots and bandages to save your ass, and greater/super mana pots on harder fights.


Only Rag "required" consumables. Rag and Geddon needed the tanks to have FR gear and good defense gear. BWL required tanks to have a decent amount of MC gear, as well as your DPS to be in blues with a few epics.


This, but the raids weren't that difficult even with the shitty talents. Players just weren't as proficient.


The 15$ a month was for content in-between expansions. My 15$ a month was for bug fixes, balance changes, ZG, BWL, AQ, tier 0.5, and Naxx.

9ee60e  No.16529325

for the record, this is what actual early vanilla raids were like.


notice how there are several players who aren't even 60 yet, the lack of consumables, all the t0 gear, and how it required people from the two guilds to actually hit 40 players.

This was early 2005, so over 2 months after release and around the time of the DM patch. I was in this vid, but not the paladin who made it.

1333c9  No.16529342


And if you compare the value of entertainment hours you get for that money spent you'll know you still get extremely good value for the money that you do pay, if you think that much is a lot

eae1b7  No.16529385


That's mostly why I don't want to pay monthly games. I don't like the idea they can drag the content out slowly and having you wait until you gotta pay again for the next subscription.

I don't see why they need the extra money when buying the base game and expansions is enough to support them.

Not that it couldnt make millions by making it free 2 play with stupid cosmetics. But free 2 play just means chinks and brazillians will infest the videogames.

9ee60e  No.16529389


but classic WoW will be negative entertainment. Therefore you'd have to pay me for it to be worthwhile.

1cbc16  No.16529400


Then why are you here? To cry how hard raiding was because you never fullcleared the game?

1333c9  No.16529430


Are you a retail player?

9ee60e  No.16529484




Posting on 8ch does not require a battle.net subscription fee.

I never said raiding was hard, just that 1.12 pserver and 1.1 retail raiding was a lot different also I wouldn't talk shit when you admitted you never got past tier t2, while I at least waited till after clearing AQ to quit the game after realizing it caused me to nearly fail AP chem.

1cbc16  No.16529532


I didn't get past tier 2 because the game was soaking up too much of my time and I needed to stop being a neet, not because I couldn't handle the content.

bff741  No.16529902


Alright retard, listen up. You're full of shit. I'm sure you feel cool that your 'elitist' pserver guild managed to down MC with shit gear and that somehow gives you the entitlement to flex to us that you managed to be awesome in a game like 15 years ago (when in reality you probably just learned to touch your peepe). But some of us actually happen to be older and have played the game back then, and we can tell you that MC was fucked. Like, actually fucked. You downed some gimped shitty bootleg version of the instance. Congrats. Here's your silver star of achievement. Now let your boomer dad tell you how it was:

Vanilla Molten Core was fucking trash.

I played a Warlock. Nobody wanted me because my class was fucking useless aside from spawning people into raids. Dots took twice as long and did half the damage. I was two free kills in world pvp. RAIDS HAD 8 FUCKING DEBUFF SLOTS WHICH WAS ABSOLUTELY FUCKING GODAWFUL.

Elitist Jerks weren't a thing for another 6-8 months. Thottbot and Alakazam were just now starting to index and catalog what was in the game. Half the classes were woefully shit because blizzard had NO idea what they were doing and gear itemization was a dumpsterfire. Cloth gear with agility? fuck yeah! why? who the fuck knows!

Players at best had a general idea of what to do from guides on blizzard's forums, which were a complete cesspool of retards (that tradition still stands). There was no way for anyone to reliably test damage, so most players winged it. We had half working specs. Everything was complete trash that Blizzard was majorly reworking with every patch. Your class could play completely differently from patch 1.3 to 1.4.

By the way, you can LITERALLY check the patch notes and see the changes. https://wow.gamepedia.com/Patch_1.4.0

(and yes, MC did drop tier 2 stuff)

So yes, Molten Core was harder. No, you weren't better than us. Yes, we didn't know what we were doing, but neither did Blizzard. There was nobody around to hold our hands. Things were constantly changing and everyone winged everything. That was part of the fun and charm of the game.

The fact that you think you're some cool guy flexing on everyone for 'clearing' Molten Core in retail proves just how much of an absolute zoomer shitter you are. Sit down and shut the fuck up.

9ee60e  No.16529936


warlocks were actually god in wpvp due to dots not breaking fear and them having ungodly amounts of hp

f5f23d  No.16530024


Defense? How much do resistances help? Do they even do anything, I have 20 fire resist and I'm still dying to fire mages!? I'm a melee hunter! 5 minute blessings! Why can't I Sunder the boss anymore? Don't bring Rogues, you need to heal them and it makes everything worse I still remember that screenshot from the first? Rag kill with a Rogue on top of the damage meters and people going insane over the fact that Rogues could do good damage. Having the downy token Ret Paladin OOC rezzing. No raid symbols. No threat meter. No damage meter. Raid frames, can you eat those? Woah that guy's using Valor, he should be the raid's main tank! Having large raids wipe in Strath/Scholo. No Prayer of Fortitude/Arcane Brilliance/Gift of the Wild because fuck you!


No, Warlocks were god tier in wPvP because of the lack of diminishing returns. Warlocks could Fear > Shadowbolt > Seduce > Fear > rinse and repeat. I think there's a PvP video from around that time, of a Warlock doing just that.

69b789  No.16530053

They should create a server with runescape death mechanics.

9ee60e  No.16530066


yes thats what i meant. Warlocks could dot you to death in early patches with chain fear/seduce/etc. Or in voidwalker mode they could sacrifice voidwalker for massive health and laugh as you died to dot/fear anyway.

e1cd51  No.16530067


Please no one said that. Paladins were universally regarded as awful tanks even in the early days of vanilla because they couldn't keep threat.

f5f23d  No.16530070


Your reading comprehension needs work. Apply yourself.

3d78b7  No.16530082

This thread is such a shitfest that I'm having a hard time believing I'm actually in an 8chan thread, talking to native posters.

1cbc16  No.16530172


>a thread on 8ch is a shitfest

Hows your first day?

830808  No.16530190


ALLEGEDLY to help it run with newer hardware, to patch out old exploits and enable shit like layering.

2a810b  No.16530320

File: 5a5a38f74faa804⋯.png (136.04 KB, 1600x2509, 1600:2509, 5a5.png)





they cant, anon. WoW has always been a game that was designed to be an 'easier' game then everquest but with more focus on 'instance content' and with less difficulty with everything else since tigole the jew thought the more instance content you add in a mmo, the better. Everything else should just be a fucking park since it's just filling until the instance content. That's why you keep seeing more instanced content in the game, instead of the opposite.

>making the death mechanic more punishing.

The biggest feature for the game for the kiddies has always been the fact that death wasnt that big of a deal in it. The moment they make death a big deal in the game like it was in everquest would result in a disaster worst than bfa since for most wowfags 'death' is already punishing enough to them.

5eb27d  No.16530352

File: 62b92d21561f898⋯.png (373.3 KB, 900x900, 1:1, Blizzdrone.png)

1cbc16  No.16530359



ce5f4e  No.16530441

Anyone have that races chart?

1333c9  No.16530452


>stop liking what I can't afford!!

7fb62a  No.16530460

Why would you ever play on wow mainservers? Private servers actually add content players wanted.

1cbc16  No.16530461

File: 224b72e9ba7a233⋯.png (30.45 KB, 514x460, 257:230, 514px-USA_2009._Percent_of….png)

b29682  No.16530504


ebin :DD

7accba  No.16530514

File: 5f48dcaf155bf40⋯.png (5.28 MB, 1300x4200, 13:42, killdozer.png)

Alright, imagine that you're going to build a killdozer to take out everyone in Blizzard's Irvine, CA headquarters. What do you choose and why?

b50409  No.16530525


>That kind of forward thinking didn't exist back when Cata came out

That kind of forward thinking has always existed. Blizzard was just too full of themselves, too stupid and too greedy to do it.

Saving basically all the code you ever made just in case it comes in handy is a smart idea even if you don't think you will ever actually try to roll things back. You never know when you'll be able to re-use or learn from some old something or other, and the cost of storage is peanuts at an organizational level.

c73907  No.16530895

just wanna make a rogue and /floss on their corpses

c73907  No.16530909


There's literally no rush in vanilla. If you nolife to 60 just so you can farm molten snore you're a dolt.

849d51  No.16530937

File: 0b949db8a13b7c6⋯.gif (1.8 MB, 500x209, 500:209, oppressivelaughter2.gif)


>giving money to one of the most kiked publishers of all time

>giving money to a dev that killed off Diablo for the chinese mobile market


849d51  No.16530943


>y-y-you don't like it because you cant afford it!

This is the same argument insufferable reddit faggots use. Blizzard and Activision are anti-consumer companies that don't deserve a fucking dime.

849d51  No.16530945


This is the sweet irony of all of this coming full circle. Layering/sharding will fuck realms along with faggot streamers like Asmongold. Private servers will always be more blizzlike than anything Blizz will release in terms of old content

dff5b7  No.16530951

File: 02c4eb2a6eee8dc⋯.jpg (36.72 KB, 750x730, 75:73, thinking_levels.jpg)


>$15 a month

>For a game or expansions you've already purchased up front

>In a market where nearly every single other game doesn't charge you to use their servers

>Including other MMOs, many of which are equal or (at this point) slightly better

Gee, I wonder why people might feel that's greedy. And merely having the money available doesn't excuse making stupid fucking purchases and wasting it by giving it to shitty developers. Simply because you can doesn't mean it's okay to do so.

849d51  No.16530958


>b-b-but you're paying for the servers!

You're paying to be sharded/layered. Look at BFA's large scale pvp battles, the server crashes if there's more than 40 people fighting each other.

> Simply because you can doesn't mean it's okay to do so.

These faggots have no backbone. Anyone who gives Blizzard/Activsion money is part of the problem. These are the same insufferable r/classic faggots who can't stand Blizzard but they instantly drop their pants and bend over when they might get something that they want. Fucking pathetic faggots

b10cea  No.16531070

File: e1dfd6786fe4d5e⋯.png (105.79 KB, 574x569, 574:569, machamp.png)


>I played a Warlock. Nobody wanted me because my class was fucking useless aside from spawning people into raids. Dots took twice as long and did half the damage. I was two free kills in world pvp.

>two free kills in pvp


>class was fucking useless

maybe the reason no one wanted you was because you were just a godawful player

e1cd51  No.16531109


>warlock in 1.0

>wanting more than one per raid

000000  No.16531171


No, Warlocks were fucking bad for the bulk of WoW. It was only halfway through vanilla WoW when spelldamage gear got big, and it took way longer before they doubled Warlock DoT dps and made death coil a lower cooldown with a special fear. Warlocks were legit free honor kills. Before the death coil buff they were just fucked whenever they got meleed cause aside from channels they don't have any talents to prevent casting loss from damage. And thanks to soul stone they were indeed two free kills instead of one, although you only get 50% of the honor the second time you kill someone. Warlocks were totally shat on throughout vanilla WoW, and even in 1.12 there are so many ways to rape a warlock without even trying. Just a Barov Peasant Caller will do it. Or really anything that spawns a pet if you do damage frequently. It's easy to shut their casting down. An overgeared 1.12 warlock might do actual DoT damage but for most of the game all your damage sucked ass.

The stuff he's describing is super familiar to everyone who played a warlock during vanilla. It's not just the experience of bads. Warlocks just didn't have the tools to be good when fear got nerfed like crazy and warlocks got nothing to compensate for it. Warlocks were just fucked. World of Roguecraft is nothing but a giant angry warlock vid explaining how fucked warlocks were and how retardedly OP rogues are because rogues kept pretending their class was fine and all the others needed to L2P (and they kept begging for more fear nerfs), so WoR was made to shut down the criticism that rogues were in a bad spot and everyone else needed to L2P.

PvP balance was just super fucking awful in WoW, especially for warlocks. Paladins had a shitty time too but where warlocks are 2 free honor kills, paladins are 0 free honor kills because bubble+hearth, and paladins take forever to kill.

9188f8  No.16531188


Offer and demand, newfag. They can ask whatever they want, for something that people want to buy real bad.

Whether you like it or not, the strange vacancy in PC gaming 2005-2010 was due to the fact that everybody was playing WOW.

>inb4 I was still playing muh nintendo

Playing along thousands others before nugeeks and socjus contaminated the medium, was truly the swan song of gaming.

To think that the impotent weebs on this board would spend hundreds of hours playing Neptunia, yet consider a proper mmporg like an unbearable job. Memers are not gamers.

d157f5  No.16531197

File: f2649dd454b3132⋯.png (240.69 KB, 460x345, 4:3, baka box.png)


>nu-Blizzard was too pussy to put up official Vanilla WoW servers despite 10's of thousands of people asking for it

>had to wait until they saw Runescape Classic succeed for years before their beta asses decided to copy them

How hard could it have been to just put something you already have made onto a couple official servers to see how receptive people are of it and seeing if its viable to put more resources into it? There was already massive Vanilla WoW communities up which proved there was a ton of demand for it already.

OS Runescape ended up getting 10 times more players than RS4


>they didn't backup their data

That would explain why its such a big deal for them to re-release something, pretty incompetent of them to not save regular backups. How much data could it possibly take up?


>all that was handled by the server

Well no shit. There was probably a database for drop tables which could have easily been backed up regularly.

bff741  No.16531227


>An overgeared 1.12 warlock might do actual DoT damage but for most of the game all your damage sucked ass.

At the point of 1.10-1.12 I think most everyone kinda got their shit together and warlocks finally got decent on meters.

PvP wise we had one sweet spot with Nemesis gear going into AQ where Soul Link just made you a fucking tank and a bane to all casters. Destro nuking also worked on warriors, rogues, and hunters.

We did eventually shine for a while, but yeah, definitely not for the bulk of vanilla. Which is why classic WoW should be fun. Because you can actually play a viable class from day 1, with properly itemized gear.

The only downside is that you miss out on the hijinks and the fun broken shit like windfury proccing itself and prolapsing buttholes in pvp. I never witnessed the shaman + sulfuras memes but I want to believe.

2a810b  No.16531564

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.


>not save regular backups.

They didnt bother saving backups until around 2008 when they were adding in the armory feature for the game on their website.

>old source code.

they actually tossed out that code for the game in favor of using the new one. Numbers though were ultimately estimated.

1cbc16  No.16531585


One of the things about vanilla is that a lot of classes become very viable in world pvp if youre a gnomish engineer.

b41c4f  No.16531609


That's like redditarded of them. Imagine being that short sighted with your product.

1333c9  No.16531696



I also buy stuff from Wal Mart and pay a monthly internet bill to Comcast, if you think you don't give money to kikes you're simply fooling yourself.

Diablo 2 is still playable, I didn't give them money for 3


Then don't give them a dime, enjoy your private servers, and I'll enjoy not having to encounter your types of people there. That's part of the reason why I'm glad there's a fee, it will keep out the bitter shitters.


>Gee, I wonder why people might feel that's greedy

I don't care if people think it's greedy, like I said to this turbosperg >>16530958 , if you don't want to pay for it you don't need to worry about paying for it. Classic changes nothing for people like you as private servers are still around. If you're complaining that Classic is going to take away all the people from those servers and you'll be left alone, then maybe you two can group up

e28659  No.16531698

Competent software development teams used source control and version control since the 90s, and there were tools out before that, it was just any idiots knew by then.

The wow team was making shit up as they went along. In general a lot of game devs never learned the basic shit you would have learned writing software for a bank of something. At best they would dump the source to a burned CD or tape backup and then it got lost after a while.

If you learned to write software outside of game company you could make more money working fewer hours so there wasn’t a lot of cross pollination.

fa970c  No.16531705


I wouldn't say estimated, they used the source as a basis and ported mechanics and stats to the newer legion code which is just for things like rendering, connectivity to the server, etc.

e1cd51  No.16531718


I mean it's just about what private servers did, and those are also just estimations. You can already see this from the beta with out of combat regen and the like, they're way over what a lot of people remember.

1cbc16  No.16531733

File: c0d8aa060f1bab3⋯.png (229.86 KB, 1229x708, 1229:708, Capture2.PNG)

File: 2468c89e11ad631⋯.png (27.21 KB, 1397x439, 1397:439, Capture.PNG)


Didnt see your reply because you didnt even quote correctly. Let's address your points.

First of all, my account is so old that in the Battlenet transaction history it doesn't even list my purchase of the collector's edition of vanilla wow. Added pic for proof.

Now let me tell you how Molten Core actually was instead of the retarded boogieman of an instance you make it out to be. Vanilla wow raid comps pre-debuff slot increase always brought TWO warlocks for curses. No raid in the fucking WORLD worth anything would let their warlocks dot up any raid boss, so you gave yourself away as a retarded shitter there. That's like saying a hunter would Serpent Sting a boss, give me a fucking break.

As for my credentials, I cannot find any proof of my original character, a night elf rogue on the Azgalor server. That is who I did all of my early game raiding with and he isn't even available to be found on warcraftrealms. However, the guild page for my original guild is still up. You can find that here: http://pias.dkpsystem.com/news.php They purged the old forums of a lot of the posts that were on there so my forum history is not available and neither is my name in the roster because its like 15 years ago, but that was my original guild. Interestingly, a paladin from my guild, Karmerr, was the one who did the reckbomb on kazzak that got reckoning hotfixed.

As for your claim that without EJ, no one could have optimized, that's a fucking joke. Mages were arcane very often back then until people realized how good frostbolt spam was, but in either scenario they only spam 1 spell over and over and over. You didnt need EJ unless you were a drooling retard. Warlock rotation? 111111111 shadowbolt spam and getting talents that made that better.

The oldest character of mine that is listed on warcraft realms is the SECOND character I made who I OTd BWL with on a different server. Pic related. So yeah, I raided in vanilla and I raided again in pservers. IDK how to check blizzard account history any further than what I provided so if I can fact check myself I will. I sent a request for my personal information from blizz so it should be back within a week. If the thread survives I'll update it.

Back to the original point, molten core was a fucking joke and you sucked dick and every single inch of your post reeks of a retarded shitter who had no idea how to play the game yet pretends that everyone had the same difficulty with the early raid tiers as he did. It wasn't true. You just sucked and your shit was all retarded.

fa970c  No.16531736


IIRC the ooc regen was bugged in the beta and blizzard admitted to it, I wish I could find a source on it.

e1cd51  No.16531751


It's a "bug" that was more them just making up a value that didn't work.

f5f23d  No.16531758


>Windfury proccing itself

Sure it was nice on Shamans, but where it really shined was with WF totem and Warriors in 5 mans. An Arms Warrior with WF totem was spamming Cleave/WW with every attack, and spamming Hamstring (for more WF procs), WW, and Execute on every GCD. You had infinite rage and did more dmg at 40 with a Whirlwind Axe than most people did at 60 with tier 1 BiS gear. I remember doing a SM run way back in the days with 1 Shaman and 4 Arms Warriors, and the run was basically just that: us Warriors just kept running forward while the Shaman dropped WF totem, healed, and drank. The way I've described how it looked like to others was that we killed shit faster than a GM would using Death Touch.


Game devs are babied by engineers and programmers. My limited knowledge of the industry is that there's a never ending war between engineers and programmers trying to create fool proof tools for the game devs to use, and the game devs fucking everything up for the engineers and programmers.

00003b  No.16531833




Don't reply to the Blizzard paypig ITT

Mistress Blizzard will continue to wallet rape him like the good little piggy he is. Oink oink!

1333c9  No.16531884

File: 08abf0e874a4f1e⋯.jpg (7.63 KB, 128x128, 1:1, ajs.jpg)


>spend 45 minutes in a truck listening to Dan Bongino yell at libtards

>pay for a month of a game I'll spend 2-3 hours a night on

Oh no I'm so mad

1cbc16  No.16531904


>listening to a mulatto read off cuckservative talking points

d157f5  No.16531907


Yeah I was shocked to hear they didn't use any form of source control, or even just zipping up the fucking project file once in a while. It would have never even crossed my mind to think a giant company like Blizzard wouldn't do basic backups of their software.

2a810b  No.16531932

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.


>Game devs are babied by engineers and programmers

A 7 year old nigger can create a game and become a game developer. So they aren't just babies, they're the retard of group.


> Blizzard paypig

Blizzdrones are a cancer on the gaming industry and bring more harm then good to any game. Every single 'beta' or 'early access' mmo these fucks take part in, they always spam the chat with nothing but WoW and they are always destroyed on the chat for it.


>a giant company like Blizzard wouldn't do basic backups of their software.

Back then they were seriously understaffed the company didnt get really 'big' until around 2012 when they reached 4.7k employees due to the merge with activision.

1333c9  No.16531976

File: e9dd2af40097b60⋯.webm (2.86 MB, 622x350, 311:175, Plants Can Swim.webm)

00003b  No.16531982

File: 8fb2212669da7b3⋯.jpg (50.16 KB, 400x400, 1:1, j-mlFelk_400x400.jpg)

Oink oink, piggy! Pay up!

1333c9  No.16531990

If it makes you feel better about being that poor

1cbc16  No.16532003


>we want unlimited mexicans as long as they're LEGAL

00003b  No.16532005

File: f4123cccd3b1243⋯.jpg (46.72 KB, 640x920, 16:23, 0522e2e0d719f690374e387a11….jpg)

I'm so glad my good little paypigs will cough up for me at Blizzard Entertainment Inc no matter what I do! Only people who are too poor won't pay up for me! Do you guys not have phones?

1333c9  No.16532046

File: 620d52a4d52dbb0⋯.jpg (37.07 KB, 400x375, 16:15, imsoerekt.jpg)

1cbc16  No.16532053


>boomer continues to post his shitty memes

1333c9  No.16532061

>people who can afford things are boomers now

The memes are evolving too fast for me

fa970c  No.16532215


people ITT could possibly get a free 3 days and then farm for gold to pay for a token so no need to pay for actual money

>Contact customer support

>Claim you want to try BfA and have been away for awhile (if you're an old acc)

>Ask for 3 free days and maybe try to get them to throw in a max level boost

>Farm for gold in legion (since most accounts are now upgraded to it)

>gold is piss easy in retail now should take less than a day and a half to get the gold for a token

>Free month

>Play classic for a bit

>take 1-2 days to grind retail for another token

>Since retail is mostly AFK play not a big issue

fa970c  No.16532325


Also granted this is taking into an account you have a old Blizzard account.

d157f5  No.16532344


>having millions of players isn't big

a59843  No.16532593


>Thinking WoW still has more than a million players

I blame our underfunded public school systems.

d157f5  No.16532658



>we weren't talking about Vanilla WoW days

cf74c4  No.16532679

File: f4a40e16c61f831⋯.png (375.8 KB, 514x536, 257:268, autism levels.png)

What the living fuck is going on?

bff741  No.16533328


Oh yeah.

One of the most memorable things as a little level 30s rogue fucker in STV was mind controlling a priest that was mind controlling players (me) to attack guards in booty bay. Delicious sweet fucking revenge.

The death ray was amazing too

1cbc16  No.16533402


On northdale there was a level 58 with an epic mount. He did shitloads of worldpvp and basically deleted people with cold blood + death ray. If you remember, normally you couldnt get an epic riding mount until 60, but if you hit rank 11 pvp they give you the black epic mount, so he was the only one in the 50-59 bgs with an epic mount. Shit was hilarious.

5bfaf4  No.16533414

Fuck Vanilla. If you were a rogue, mage, warrior or priest you had a blast, everyone else not so much.

For example I was an Alliance Warlock, and our only "defense" until Death Coil was Fear.

>entire Undead race had Will of the Forsaken, a 30 second fear immunity (also it was the most popular Horde race at the time)

>Warriors had Berserker Rage giving them a 30 second fear immunity

>Shaman grounding totems ate up any non-direct damage spell and still put the target on diminishing returns (hurr you could wand the totem - fuck off)

Just imagine the fucking despair at seeing an Undead Warrior who has a full minute of fear immunity. Or better yet, I'm sure the videos still exist - go watch World of Roguecraft.

But how about PvE?

>There was a limit on debuff slots, so playing an Affliction (DoT) heavy style was out

>Mages had rolling ignites creating massive damage for them, and thanks to debuff limits it was better for the raid if your only debuff was Curse of the Elements to boost the fucking mages, making you a token

So what was good?

>Mages and Druids were free kills in PvP

>The Dreadsteed vs everyone elses shit mounts

>With Searing Pain and high shadow resist gear I was a tank at the Twins in AQ40.

But does a shiny mount, or a unique fight justify getting cucked in raids or shit on by an entire race? Fuck no, and fuck Vanilla.

1cbc16  No.16533435


>will of the forsaken

>30 second fear immunity

It was 20 secs until 1.6, then it was 5. Not to mention you could have speccd imp howl. If you're a warlock, you should have varied your pets and pulled out succy for seduce on warriors since they have tons of fear immunes. It baffles me how people ignored parts of the game then blamed balance.

Mages only went fire in AQ40 so you had two whole raid tiers of dominance, then mages shined in aq40, before warlocks dominated tier 3.

>not having macros for pet to attack totems

5bfaf4  No.16533442



Fear was placed on the same DR as Howl of Terror and Seduce.

You could easily kill Warriors with a shitload of DoT's as long as they weren't dispelled. You just wouldn't live long enough, but you'd take them down with you.

1cbc16  No.16533459

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

d7d8f8  No.16533471


God I miss this style of wow porn. Now everything is just futa. I remember one of my first faps was to a picture Dr.Graevling did of a Blood Elf sliding his cock out of a Draenei.

d9f20b  No.16533564

The old models are very rough to look at and having more polish on the textures and appearance of the world space would be nice. Not like modern blizzard have, would, or even should do it.

f5f23d  No.16533660


Warlocks were amazing in group PvP though. Curse of Tongues, both offensive and defensive dispel, ranged interrupt, fairly tanky or obnoxiously tanky with SL, and of course Fear + DoT pressure.


>first fap to WoW porn

>you must be 18+ to post here

And then I realized WoW was 14½ years ago. Monara probably inspired more WoW porn than anything else, even lore characters.

cb5eb9  No.16534502

Reminder that this paypig meme comes from 4ch and is intended to prevent you from voting with your wallet. SJWs buy few games but ensure that their enemies are ostracized and deplatformed to sell even less.

As usual, the right behaviour is use your money well without following weird suggestions. Pay for what you actually play, leave piracy only for the search process.

4294c0  No.16534506


>He unironically believes about voting with your wallet

Good goy, keep expending your good goy points.

bc77c9  No.16534593


I use the word paypig since it describes retards like you well enough you fucking loser.

27b004  No.16534606


Private WoW servers have been a thing since before the expansions came out and there was no "what it may have been like" to interpret, because the genuine thing was available to play at the time. I'm pretty sure >>16528529 is right and you don't know what you're talking about.

bf2f3c  No.16534617

File: 76189a461127137⋯.jpg (74.28 KB, 1000x563, 1000:563, bobby-kotick.jpg)



1cbc16  No.16534686

File: 774ffec9784e5d3⋯.png (152.2 KB, 788x1020, 197:255, Screen Shot 2019-06-03 at ….png)


Hey faggot retard, heres my wow account information showing my account creation date.

e1bb65  No.16534708

File: 5be9c91ff35e01c⋯.png (166.47 KB, 890x661, 890:661, WOT.png)



a6a194  No.16534709

It's vanilla with the current client polish

speaking without bias, that's better than the shitty Piece of shit buggy and outdated client that is the vanilla client.

I wouldn't even bother changing the energy regen from rogues back to vanilla levels or trying to emulate the clunkyness. I'd just keep it polished with the vanilla level cap, talent ladder, spells, tuning, and general feel except with a polished UI and less clunkyness.

1333c9  No.16534780


These grapes

They're so sour

9dad53  No.16534786


I'd agree with you, if there weren't a 99.9% chance that they'll take a huge shit on classic a few months after launch when everyone has sunk time into their characters and guilds. If there was any hope for them to not ruin the game and make mad shekels like they did for the last decade, it died with the fact that 'classic' isn't going to be a 'no-changes' experience that's unable to be paid for with tokens. As soon as it was proven that they had their battlenet hooks in the game it has become an absolute certainty that they'll repeat their past choices simply because it made them filthy stinking rich doing so. Is this the right decision from a business standpoint? Absolutely. Will the jewish overlords ruin the game because of it without a care in the world? Absolutely.

I realize complaining about it will do absolutely nothing but surely you can see how the small quality of life changes are actually the nail in the coffin for this entire reboot of WoW.

1333c9  No.16534805


And when it turns out you're wrong?

e89967  No.16534810


they're remaking it instead of re-releasing it because they want it to work on a client that has more security than the vanilla client did

although, that'll only do so much to stave hackers away

9dad53  No.16534813


Then I'll get a good vanilla WoW experience again on a populated server. Meaning by going into it as a realist, and expecting a huge money gouging shitshow the worst possible scenario is that they meet my expectations. Which is far better than the alternative. After a decade of constant fuckups and money gouging I can't imagine how anyone could realistically expect anything else other than absolute corporate greed and a complete disregard towards their consumers.

e89967  No.16534815


>BfA pservers


e89967  No.16534829


tell us how you do 4 horsemen with less than 8 tanks, anon

00003b  No.16534833


>Paying a bloated subscription to a shitty Jew company = Paying for good games

Nice try, paypig.

2a810b  No.16534926


>last login 2015.

>max level 85.

>first login 2005.

>only 1 character on account.

>its a fucking belflock.

>they've been blizzdroning while haven't actually played for 3 years.

Stop sperging out already and trying to deraill the thread. Its clear that you've only tried out the game then stopped playing then picked the game back up in Burning Crusade and played on a private server version of classic.


>I realize complaining about it will do absolutely nothing but surely you can see how the small quality of life changes are actually the nail in the coffin for this entire reboot of WoW.

Will classic have a cash shop later down the line? Yes.

Will they completely change the retail version of the product if classic is more profitable? No.

The company is just hoping that adding Classic will boost subs for the WoW product as the sub count has only declined throughout the years. If WoW classic isn't profitable they will stop their support for it just like they did with Heroes of the Storm Esports. The company only cares about profits right now, they don't care about player feedback. Complaining about something isn't going to change their mind, if you want this company to understand you'll need to speak with your wallet. The blizzdrones will always support the company no matter what but their a small majority now due to them dying out both literally and figuratively. Change for companies like blizzard only comes when it hurts their bottom dollar.


>After a decade of constant fuckups and money gouging I can't imagine how anyone could realistically expect anything else other than absolute corporate greed and a complete disregard towards their consumers.

Thats why classic will be a great shitshow to watch when it launches as it'll be great to see the blizzdrones on twitch lose their shit on camera.

bf2f3c  No.16534980

File: b62aeb271666b31⋯.jpg (37.81 KB, 282x400, 141:200, b62aeb271666b3104cb0fa4738….jpg)




a6a194  No.16534985


Warlocks were good in PvP only when naxx came out and they had more gear. DoT damage was insane and they were extremely tanky

But anything before that they're shit. just make a lock when naxx comes out. Otherwise play Warrior, Rogue, Mage or Priest

f5f23d  No.16535269


Works just fine with 6 or 7 tanks. Just have your tanks take 6+ marks every now and then.


Blizzard is already thinking of how to monetize Classic. I'm willing to bet my balls on it.

d7d8f8  No.16535283


Insta level 60 for 200 dollary-doos

dff5b7  No.16535294


Why did you wait four months after creating your account to actually log in and start playing?

3d78b7  No.16535302

File: cddb9bf6e83c371⋯.png (120.73 KB, 783x1018, 783:1018, ClipboardImage.png)


It's photoshopped. This is the real image.

bff741  No.16535618




Only thing that worries me about the current client polish is that they may have already fixed some of the jank aspects of vanilla.

I don't know if they'll fix alliance priests mind controlling Saurfang for the lulz or warlocks enslaving blasted lands demons. When I quit playing in Wrath, practically every elite undead was immune to being controlled by death knights, and I haven't played retail retroactively to check if those things are still possible.

The issue with how strong town guards are needs to be addressed too, because those could've been mind controlled as well. There were also, for example, grief spots in gadget where mages could nuke people in towns without guards reaching them.

1333c9  No.16536168


>still this assmad that you're too poor to afford something

Are you from some irrelevant shithole where 15 is a lot of money? Or are you just regular poor?

c252c3  No.16536189

File: 526eb9e67d0401a⋯.jpg (16.22 KB, 320x520, 8:13, train_fags.jpg)

1333c9  No.16536208


It's the only thing I can think of that explains the amount of hatred some of these people have for Blizzard. It's either pure jealousy or just fear that Classic will take everyone away from retail

2baf85  No.16536339

The twitch eceleb drama is gonna ruin it. It'll literally be top A vs top H streamer and their 500 cucks.

Nublizz players are trying to change vanilla mechanics on the forums already.

Discord trannies are going to get you banned in game for being toxic and problematic.

Everyone is now gender swapped and guys play females and girls play males online, or at least the majority will be.

They will milk 15 year old content for another year before Tier 3 is even released. Months of no AV and only Molten Core to raid.

People have played enough vanilla pservers to get the leveling down to a few days and MC will probably be cleared in the first week.

Its going to be filled with scumbags and degenerates playing it, as well zoomers and underage spamming poggers and kappa in chat.

Oh and I forgot, chinks. Chinks will literally make more money than blizz does and you will have an indirect pay2win option in the game as well as a fucked auction house. With the new sharding/layering system they'll be protected from getting ganked and camped in world PvP.

e5f2a2  No.16536342


…or you're just mentally retarded.

1333c9  No.16536401


That might be the case as well, but I'm not the one sperging about a thing other people are buying. I don't go in to a thread about buying an island and bitch about how impractical living on an island is, yet these poorfags still feel the need to have their opinions heard

dff5b7  No.16536904

File: 0a73610344ad07c⋯.png (49.91 KB, 410x382, 205:191, tails_explains_some_shit.png)


It's not hard to imagine why, it's because markets are an ecosystem. The video games market is composed of developers/publishers that look to what is and isn't successful as a guide on what they should be doing. Bad behaviour (like what Blizzard does with shitty balancing, micro-transactions, poor core game design, etc.) is a bad thing to reward with purchases because it tells other companies that they can get away with it. Very few games, particularly ones from big studios, are developed in a vacuum.

If people pay money for mediocre shit and say "it's not that bad" then the mediocrity becomes the new standard, and it will only push farther and farther. Years ago, the idea of getting charged out the ass for minor cosmetic upgrades (on par with what would once be included as bonus content) would be ridiculous, but people accepted it at first and then it only got worse to the point we're at now. It's the same principle elsewhere. Look at how they made Diablo 3 a bright, technicolour mess balanced around being a pseudo-MMORPG rather than the grim, dark hack & slash game that D2 was. It's because they were trying to copy what they thought made WoW so popular and apply it elsewhere. That's why people are upset, it's because they're watching millions of retards funnel insane amounts of cash to reward mediocrity, and they know that it's going to have a knock-on effect for the rest of us and things will never improve. Because companies don't have to improve if they're making loads of money for half-assed work.

1333c9  No.16536952


Okay well, I'm going to play Classic you're welcome to vote with your wallet and we'll see where it goes

4b497a  No.16536992


Jesus fucking Christ some of these montages, especially that one with the hunter basically afk, idk why they put these kills in their videos when its just looks awful

8619d3  No.16538289




>le ebin teen pirates

If you don't vote with your wallet, any purple hair feminist has more power than you. Fact.

Running away won't ever solve any problem.

a357ae  No.16539318


> DM will be out on release

afaik it won't be

>Our first phase primarily focuses on launching Classic with Onyxia and Molten Core, but we’ve decided to hold off on Dire Maul for a while. Maraudon is still in the first phase, because it was originally released on December 18, 2004, just two weeks after the first player hit level 60, but we recognize that Dire Maul is in a different category.




Another link


a357ae  No.16539389


Because I have a job so I'm just not poor enough to care. And also I haven't played it in years.


Hey, it was pretty fun raiding servers with naked elves and making them crash.


>me on the other hand just wanted to go to max level and minmax shit.

I always start like that but then I get lazy and just go chill in Stormwind.


>Hell no. Every now and then some DPS would use a flask, but it was a rarity.

This. And If you played a priest you would end up in ZG and MC around level 57. It wouldn't be common to sperg on flasks until Burning Crusade. Classic has somewhat of a reputation for hardcore raiding, but that was mostly AQ40/Naxx, the real hardcore raiding times were Burning Crusade. Which was also a very comfy Addon, everything looked like the devs were dropping acid.


>I'm a melee hunter!

Might as well be a tranny. But wait, I've heard this has actually become a thing in more recent wow?

830808  No.16539567


>But wait, I've heard this has actually become a thing in more recent wow?

Survival has been turned into a Witcher 3 melee spec. You have a poisoned crossbow, bombs and fight with a 2h weapon, pet at your side.

000000  No.16539683


Diminishing returns got added super early, like in 1.2 or 1.3. And then they kept nerfing fear for quite a while.


No man, in the first days of WoW noobs (which was like 60% of your server) believed paladins were a tanking class. I think even the strategy guide referred to paladins as a tanking class. You had so many people for who WoW was their first videogame.


>Or really anything that spawns a pet if you do damage frequently.

Or dual-wield. A druid can fuck your warlock up with melee+moonfire spam too. lolnocastsevar


>Alliance Warlock

tfw you know this pain. Did you play human too?

>entire Undead race had Will of the Forsaken, a 30 second fear immunity (also it was the most popular Horde race at the time)

Was 20 seconds, then 5. It was originally permanent in beta though. And it can be used while CC'd to break out of 'em.

>Warriors had Berserker Rage giving them a 30 second fear immunity

10 seconds, but it can be used to break out of fears. Warriors can gain 20 seconds more fear immunity with Death Wish (fury warrior) and 30 seconds with Recklessness (1hr cooldown). If a warrior pops Recklessness your warlock is just dead.


>It was 20 secs until 1.6, then it was 5.

By that time they DR'd the shit out of it (they went through several successive patches of nerfing fear) and added PvP trinkets where damn near everyone could break fear with it.

>Not to mention you could have speccd imp howl.

NO YOU FUCKING IDIOT. Imp. Howl was a Burning Crusade thing. Did not exist in vanilla. If you ever played a warlock in vanilla you'd've known their spec, SM/Ruin, has no imp. howl.

>If you're a warlock, you should have varied your pets and pulled out succy for seduce on warriors since they have tons of fear immunes.

Succubus is not a popular PvP pet on alliance man. Will of the Forsaken breaks it. It works on non-undead warriors and then you maaaybe have bandaging time if you ain't bleedin and mortal strike still fucks your self-heal. But you can make some distance, cast curse of elements, trinket, and soul fire him for big damage & then DoT him. He'll probably die (if u have spelldmg), but not before killing you. Thing is, like half the horde is undead (druids & rogues could trinket too & good shamans had f%$#ing tremor totem), so alliance locks don't use succubus for world PvP much.

Btw fear, seduce, and howl of terror were all on the same DR by then.


>retarded warlock with engineering kills other retards

Don't post this trash.


WoW private servers were a thing since before wow beta was out. A WoW alpha client got leaked and some folks reverse engineered a server around it.

000000  No.16539779


>I was one of the few Paladins that realized Paladins were amazing healers and shit for tanking and DPS. I kept showing up to Strath/Scholo/UBRS raids in cloth healing gear, yet people would always bitch at me for trying to take healer loot.

Paladins were trash healers too dude. They didn't have a cast time reducing talent. All they had was mana efficiency, which was cool until the regular healers fixed their mana problems, and 50% heal threat, which was cool until tanks learned to output threat properly (besides who cares you're a paladin your healers should all have salvation anyway). Other healers had heals over time, party heals, and higher performance instant heals.

But I remember the jokes about paladins rolling on cloth gear because they were healers.


>Elitist Jerks weren't a thing for another 6-8 months. Thottbot and Alakazam were just now starting to index and catalog what was in the game.

Don't forget all the blues adamantly refused to explain how WoW mechanics worked because they didn't want to reward theorycrafters or shit. People had to exhaustively test their abilities against random monsters to figure out how threat worked, how defense worked, how weapon skill worked, how stats like spirit and agility worked. Blizz refused to tell how anything worked so players had to figure it out for themselves. Eventually they started giving small bits of info here and there.

>Half the classes were woefully shit because blizzard had NO idea what they were doing and gear itemization was a dumpsterfire.

GG. So much fucking forum rage, and shitty CMs dismissed it all as whining crybabies. There were a lot of players who wrote in-depth, analytical write-ups on the state of mechanical balance and relevant issues, players would bump that shit, and blizz would ignore it all, never to read it. If you were on the class forums you remembered the names of Eyonix and Caydiem and it was nothing good. Blizz was fucking up royally left and right and CMs weren't actually fostering dialogue between devs and players as their job nominally indicated they would but stonewalling it and talking down to people. Caydiem got outed as a liar once people found out his main and he got ridiculed to death because he was a fucking noob casual pretending to have been a raider. No doubt Caydiem's idiocy factored into the feedback he relayed to the devs about game balance because CMs were constantly cued in on that shit and they always fucking dropped the ball so hard. CMs were hated, and with good reason too.

>Cloth gear with agility? fuck yeah! why? who the fuck knows!

At least agility gave you armor and dodge man. Spirit was fucking useless on warlocks.

5bfaf4  No.16539904


Yep I was a Human Alliance Warlock. I'm glad that someone else sympathizes with me on that.

But you and the others were correct, I had the durations of WotF and various warrior immunities wrong. In my defense, it has been over a decade.

fa970c  No.16539922


>He doesn't play melee survival hunter in base game WoW

bet you hesitate to need on agi gear too faggot

7366e8  No.16541007



73407d  No.16541043


>That impudence

I would never ever roll a fucking hunter. Warrior, Priest and Warlock, that's where it's at.

3b2bdb  No.16541388


>GG. So much fucking forum rage, and shitty CMs dismissed it all as whining crybabies. There were a lot of players who wrote in-depth, analytical write-ups on the state of mechanical balance and relevant issues, players would bump that shit, and blizz would ignore it all, never to read it.

It was really fun trolling whining holy priests while being credible by posting as a lvl 60 holy priest

f5f23d  No.16541503


>if a Warrior pops Recklessness your Warlock is just dead

To be fair, so is the Warrior.


Paladins were shit healers until Cata's last raid tier. But you still wanted lots of them for blessings, and you didn't want Prot/Ret Paladins, so you got a bunch of Holy Paladins to tank heal forever while your Priests and Druids handled the raid healing.

>Blizz refused to explain game mechanics

And to some extent, that's a good thing. You don't want an extreme where there's no information anywhere and everything is obscure, but you also don't want every mechanic explained in details with official spreadsheets explaining how to play your class.




>Spirit on Warlocks

It was an excellent leveling stat with the Drain Soul talent. Not that anyone realized that back then. Hell, most players on private servers don't realize that now. You still want to prioritize shadow/spell dmg, but Spirit is damn good after you get yourself a healthy chunk of Stam.

0b7851  No.16541554


>It was an excellent leveling stat

it was a great stat period for casters till Blizzard crippled the fuck out of the mana regen in beta *after* they had finished cloth gear itemization.

You know what feature I missed from early vanilla? The priest holy tree being fucking useless. As far as I was concerned that was a god damn intended game feature because they wanted to discourage priests from having to spec into the passive heal bitch tree as much as they could. But then some masochistic cunts ruined it for the rest of us by demanding the tree be buffed until it was mandatory for min/maxed endgame content and the only way priests could farm for mats after that was waste hundreds specing back and forth or rolling whole new characters.

699d9b  No.16541671


I remember that nigger i bullied him mercilessly in Ungoro when we were 50+. I got banned, and few months later I look up forums and see him being r14. He is just a premade rat who spent insane amout of time just pvp farming and isnt particularly skilled.

5d41de  No.16542051


Mark Kern has done a couple of streams playing the classic beta super casually while retelling dev stories about the making of original Vanilla. According to him, they always had the game code, but they didn't have a lot of numerical server-side data like spawn placements and various damage numbers. All of that stuff they had to rebuild, which they did originally by looking at Nostalrius' numbers until they came up with a better way.

000000  No.16543388


>10 seconds, but it can be used to break out of fears. Warriors can gain 20 seconds more fear immunity with Death Wish (fury warrior) and 30 seconds with Recklessness (1hr cooldown). If a warrior pops Recklessness your warlock is just dead.

Woops. Recklessness is just 15sec, not that he needs the extra 15 seconds when Recklessness makes everything autocrit.


Fucking horrible experience tbh. Never play alliance as warlock. PvPing undead aint worth it.


Best part of playing a ret paladin is rolling need on hunter gear because you need the agi to get your crits going.


>To be fair, so is the Warrior.

Unless he has lifegiving gem or shit, yeah.

>Paladins were shit healers until Cata's last raid tier. But you still wanted lots of them for blessings, and you didn't want Prot/Ret Paladins, so you got a bunch of Holy Paladins to tank heal forever while your Priests and Druids handled the raid healing.

Blessings & auras. Paladins were buffbots with ez heals. In the early days when everyone had crap gear with no +healing, bad mana/5, and tanks that couldn't hold aggro, paladins were good healers too.

>And to some extent, that's a good thing. You don't want an extreme where there's no information anywhere and everything is obscure, but you also don't want every mechanic explained in details

You do. A lot of builds and strategies depend on subtle mechanical interactions.

>with official spreadsheets explaining how to play your class.

That ain't needed, or desired.


I didn't keep up too much with CM shit tbh.

>It was an excellent leveling stat with the Improved Drain Soul talent. Not that anyone realized that back then.

Wrong as fuck m8. Trouble was, it was garbage for most of vanilla. If Drain Soul didn't kill the mob with its own tick, IDS would not proc. Then when they addressed that it still wouldn't proc if a source other than the player killed it, like your pet. Finally they just made the damn thing proc if the target died for any reason while being drained. That took forever. Warlocks sucked in vanilla.

>Hell, most players on private servers don't realize that now.

Because you don't need it anyway. Life Tap + Bandages works fine, and you have Drain Life and Siphon Life anyway. If you're UD you have Cannibalize too. And with 1.12 mechanics health/5 (like demon skin & demon armor) finally works in combat.


>You know what feature I missed from early vanilla? The priest holy tree being fucking useless. As far as I was concerned that was a god damn intended game feature because they wanted to discourage priests from having to spec into the passive heal bitch tree as much as they could. But then some masochistic cunts ruined it for the rest of us by demanding the tree be buffed until it was mandatory for min/maxed endgame content and the only way priests could farm for mats after that was waste hundreds specing back and forth

Lightwell and Spirit of Redemption is still fucking useless though (SoR can be useful in PvP I think). Agree that respec fee sucks ass. One good thing about playing a Warlock in vanilla is that you never ever needed to despec from SM/Ruin. It was your raid spec, your grind spec, and your PvP spec.

>or rolling whole new characters.

Yeah that's that way to go. Pick best grinding class, give it gathering professions, and just grind on it. But you'll still want to spec out of raidspec with your main if you want to use that raid loot in PvP.

c73907  No.16545878

File: 8bc4f5dda96d5a4⋯.jpg (31.87 KB, 341x288, 341:288, DKT-Abomination[2].jpg)

Is orc or undead better for pvp?

4ed10d  No.16546174


Because Blizzard are clueless idiots who didn't keep around their older versions.

4ed10d  No.16546187


Depends on class.

I prefer Orc for Warlock, Undead for Rogue and Mage. Also class strength changes depending on gear level. At low and mid-geared rogues are annoying so orc racial is great, however later on Warlocks and to a lesser extent Spriests become gods of PvP so Undead racial is more useful.

c73907  No.16546552


orc warlock sounds sick but most of the robes look like shite on them

1333c9  No.16547884


Get intercourse

e1bb65  No.16547921


Undead lock also lets you bypass the rather ugly horse you'd get as any other class.

205f8a  No.16547935


>(27) in blizfag thread

>reddit response

1333c9  No.16547966


Sex intercourse

c363e6  No.16547975

All these fucking faggot guilds recruiting and wanting "server/world firsts". Shit has been beaten already you fucking dumb niggers. Game will be just as infested with tumblrinas and fags as FFXIV is now.

edcec5  No.16548082

Best horde race for hunter?

4ed10d  No.16548115

e1bb65  No.16548182


Orc is obvious.

1333c9  No.16548207

>not Tauren hunter

c73907  No.16550091

File: 7d05fe240a135df⋯.png (334.17 KB, 469x627, 469:627, asfd.png)


troll, easily

9383aa  No.16550163


As usual, the one that isn't furrybait

5ab599  No.16550216



c73907  No.16550297

File: a2875753fca576e⋯.png (241.05 KB, 403x367, 403:367, lightling.png)


praise the light, or something

ae7a33  No.16550307

File: 158aa47fcf797ff⋯.mp4 (2.32 MB, 640x360, 16:9, we_wuz_flying_pyramids.mp4)


No shit trolls have become "we wuz" the race.

fb9a0e  No.16550313


Orc has the best racial for it (5% extra pet damage) combine with BM.

8d4313  No.16550340

Why remake WoW at all when it's always been cancerous trash???

c73907  No.16550344


because people want to play it

8d4313  No.16550352


Ayy time for a Halo and Modern Warfare remake.

2988e2  No.16550539

I kinda would like it if they balanced vanilla. I can understand people cling to the idea of no changes since blizzard could balls it up, but at the same time vanilla is such a broken mess. Would be nice to expand to make classes do a bit more. like in TBC with paladins actually being great tanks.

f5f23d  No.16550919


>paladins being great tanks in TBC

They were good on one fight. *One*. 1. A single fight throughout TBC. Morogrim Tidewalker. And the pathetic thing is that a HOLY PALADIN in a mix of defense/healing gear was better at the job than a Prot Paladin was. Everywhere else, Warriors and Druids were better.

>but muh Hyjal trash

Prot Paladins were EASY to tank with in Hyjal. But they still were far worse than Warriors/Druids, and they generated a hell of a lot less threat, and they took a hell of a lot more damage, and were a hell of a lot more useless when the boss rolled around. Sure, they worked, but you could also have Moonkins tank Gruul and Rogues evasion tank Mother.

>but muh heroic 5 man tanking

Setting aside the fact that Paladins had to drink after EVERY SINGLE PULL and made the run take two to three times longer than with a similarly geared and skilled Warrior/Druid, you have to understand that Paladins usually would wind up taking around 50% more melee damage than either Warriors or Druids. Why? Compared to Warrior: no Demoralizing Shout, no Thunder Clap, less raw damage reduction. Then you have no Spell Reflect, no Disarm, no interrupts, no movement skills to kite with. Compared to Druid: no Demoralizing Roar, laughably low armor/HP pool. Then there's no self-healing between pulls or pre-healing before pulls, no interrupts, no defensive cooldowns that don't drop hate. But you're gonna say "but muh threat!". Well Paladin threat is fucking shit. Even if you slap Salvation on every one in the group, it's still magnitudes worse than what a Warrior or a Druid will do. Every DPS spec will need to hold back or pull hate. And if they do pull hate, LOL SHITTY PALADIN TAUNT THAT DOESN'T WORK HALF THE TIME BECAUSE THE MOB USED A RSTS SKILL WHILE YOU CAST YOUR TAUNT. And you can't pre-emptively taunt mobs with Paladins to prevent hate loss from being CCd by stuff like Gouge like in Mana Tombs or Scatter Shot like in Old Hillsbrad.

Fuck Prot Paladins in TBC. And anyone who thinks otherwise is either being contrarian, has never seen a halfway decent Warrior tanking, or is playing on Warmane where dungeon/heroic/raid mobs do 50-75% less dmg than they should.

As for the changing balance in Classic, they'd need to make Classic into a powerhouse and a huge money maker. Then they'd need to make separate realms with the changed Classic experience. I don't see any Blizzard going that route because "it'd be confusing for our players if we had Classic realms and re-imagined Classic realms!". And finally, fuck Prot Paladins.

c020bd  No.16551908

Any of the Infinity guild members from netherwing playing classic?

fa970c  No.16552143


there are talks of the fags still in the old goycord. Since NA/EU are segragated like blacks in the 1950s you won't get much. One of the autists is planning on gathering as many of the NAfags and making a guild and running a bit, there seems to be a mention of letting in normalfags into a separate goycord like what Long tried, and knowing the dude whose attempting it I'm sure he'll stamp out any faggotry hard.

c73907  No.16552250

File: d981dee2ec6a5dd⋯.jpg (20.75 KB, 220x314, 110:157, 220px-Call_of_Duty_4_Moder….jpg)


they're already doing that

c73907  No.16552254


bro really? the game is so fucking easy you could probably shaman tank in bc. im pretty sure moonkins tanked gruul as a joke.

d72e0c  No.16552921

File: aa9664824d134be⋯.png (30.85 KB, 960x720, 4:3, ClipboardImage.png)

>just did some math


830808  No.16553019


yes they literally scream "wakanda/zandalar forever" now when you click them.

1333c9  No.16553213



>the same cast as a single month of my car insurance

>for a game which I get multiple hours of entertainment per day

Oh nooo

4ed408  No.16553372

File: 3011517d1c0f840⋯.gif (1.7 MB, 334x277, 334:277, 1391271579094.gif)



>Shilling and being a batterd housewife for blizzard.

1333c9  No.16556278

File: c2d4a38f6db3932⋯.gif (2.32 MB, 236x307, 236:307, 1525203895881.gif)


>being too poor to afford entertainment you can't pirate

>hang out in classic threads anyway

4ed408  No.16556381

File: 80dd771293ec8f9⋯.jpg (76.77 KB, 887x1097, 887:1097, 1367603045011.jpg)



>Not even denying he sucks blizzard dick.

>Acting smug about spending his autism bux

You're like a furry that pays for porn. Only louder and obnoxious with the smug bragging that no one is as retarded as you.

1333c9  No.16556451

I guess the poorest dogs really do bark the loudest

c51976  No.16556463

File: 2ab0f34459a961f⋯.png (18.63 KB, 255x255, 1:1, 2ab0f34459a961f8cae674b909….png)


>Since the beginning


>of 15 years

>spent 200 a YEAR

>17 bucks a month

This is assuming he was even about it. But it more than likely wasn't he probably only really blew money on events, new expansions, and probably even sales.

The fucker only spent that much on a 15 year old game. At the time he spent money for maximum enjoyment. And he was there from the beginning. Upon seeing the number he spent over all those years would actually make him feel good. As most would spend just as much if not more in LESS time on multiple other games and would probably be less entertained.

Compared to the average consumer anyway.

e59943  No.16556517

File: 6649bd7f3baecb6⋯.png (816.66 KB, 620x1000, 31:50, 1514427487655.png)

fucking wow is the only game ever that completely crashes my computer, I fucking hate wow so much.

1333c9  No.16556581

What do you like best about the current state of retail and what do you hate the most?

I think mounts not taking bagspace is nice but artifact points can fuck off

ae7a33  No.16556644

File: 83fcce66526fd69⋯.gif (85.11 KB, 450x523, 450:523, enough.gif)

000000  No.16556947


Priests really didn't have a blast. Undead shadow priests maybe, but night elf priests were so fucking bad. All of their abilities were trash. All they had going for them was shadowmeld and then hope nobody looks your way because with your super low racial stealth level (which breaks if you move), you're merely hard to spot from a distance, but still visible if someone pays attention. Human priests didn't have a good time either with their crappy Feedback and Perception. Trolls were also pretty shitty until blizz buffed their racial spells and they started getting spelldmg, but UD is still master race because WotF.


>it was a great stat period for casters till Blizzard crippled the fuck out of the mana regen in beta *after* they had finished cloth gear itemization.

IIRC they did a lot of weird shit late in beta. I think that's when the EQ idiots took over and the original wow designers left? Anyway, really late in beta they suddenly wrecked spirit, wrecked paladins (paladins in vanilla are a melee class with zero attack skills and no charge/sprint), removed invis from mages (shame imo, there were better ways of handling that, like making it a short duration on a 2min cd and adding it as a second 31-point arcane school capstone), and did a bunch of other stuff I don't remember.

I think tigole hated paladins in EQ too?


Nah man, there are specials, daily rates, and I think they added this new shit where you can have someone sell a month of playtime on the AH for gold so their subscriber count doesn't crater.

2b9676  No.16556966



Where exactly can you find this info. I also have an account created back in like 2005 and I'd love to see even just the last login time. I'm gonna guess like 2009

000000  No.16557285


You clearly played with retarded Alliance tankadins that could not talent properly. Until T6 gear Feral was objectively the worst tank as they could not pot/hs reliably, had shitty Swipe as only AoE and had no real damage reduction abilities that Warrs & Pallies had with former having dmg reduction from def stance as passive + LS/SW as active while the latter had similar dr from RF as well as passive shield wall from AD whenever their hp went below 35%.

While you are right in saying that Prot pala had less DR available in comparison to prot warr, it was not as bad as youre claiming if they had proper spec (aka 2 or 3 points in Pursuit of Justice depending that reduced their chances of getting hit by any spells in the first place).

Most likely you dealt with retards who either had horrible spec (aka 5 points wasted in Reckoning while having 0/5 Ardent Def in case of squishy shitters or 0/5 in 1h specialization that boosted all of their dmg) or did not use the BoJ libram. That BoJ libram actually made geared tankadin better than prot warr for many boss fights since it allowed them to be uncrushable for lot longer than Warrs (8 charges of HS in comparison to 2 from Shield block). Other shit you complain about (aka low armor/hp) is result of bad gearing choices, since it tended to be on par with similar geared Warr with main difference coming from lack of stats from having libram instead of ranged wep. Your alliance is showing since Belf Paladins had 2min aoe silence as racial that gave them mana from their other stackable racial which allowed them to keep on going for long periods of fight. Even for alliance the "drink after every pull" is retarded hyperbole unless you were dealing with literal brainlet that did not know to use downranked version of consecration (rank 4).

Tankadin also had advantages that neither Feral or Prot warr had, such as ability to cleanse everything but curses from themselves (or others) in 1 button ability on top of being able to ignore roots and any other form of movement reduction shit in form of freedom. In 5mans the blessings & particularly Salv mattered lot more until you could just cheese everything with IQD badge gear as Tankadins did not need mandatory pocket ccs to be able to hold aggro like Warrs & Druids did.

tldr: You are butthurt alliance player shitting on class because you played with retards that could not play Tankadin properly.

e89967  No.16557340


couldn't you shift out of bear form between a swing, swig a pot, and then get back in before anything smacked you?

fa970c  No.16557413


P much, you could even make a macro for it

f5f23d  No.16557709


>feral gearing

Ferals could come fairly close to the armor cap in T5 gear, on top of having far more avoidance and HP than Paladins or Warriors. They got crushed more during raids, but against most bosses Feral Druids would tend to be less susceptible to burst damage compared to Warriors. Warriors had the issue of dying to Shield Block right as the boss hits > boss attacks > boss attacks before Shield Block is back up and crushes, a scenario made even worse when factoring parry haste. Paladins tended to be less worried about getting crushed or parry haste, but they needed to sacrifice a ton of stats on getting uncrushable. Usually in the form of less HP/armor/avoidance.

>not being able to hot/HS reliably

They were able to handle that by turning off auto attack and using pots between boss swings.

>Swipe as AoE threat

In heroics, it didn't matter too much since you absolutely wanted to avoid fighting multiple mobs at once, which is why CC was so important in TBC. Swipe was worse at AoE tanking once you were grossly overgeared, but Bears made up for it by generating stupid levels of threat on single targets/tab targeting with Maul and Mangle. My experience is that Bears generated far better threat than Paladins outside of pure AoE situations like the flowers at the end of Botanica or the tables in Moroes' room.

>no flat damage reduction

That didn't matter until late T6 and Sunwell, at which point Paladins and Warriors could hit/get close to the armor cap under Inspiration. Before that, Bears simply took less damage per hit.

>Ardent Defender

It rarely saved a Paladin's life, since it only kicked it after the Paladin was below 35%. The Paladin had to be below 35% health (with their lower health pool) AND they had to survive the hit. It was one of those things that looked better on paper than it did in practice.

>Paladins having less DR than Warriors

Paladins get 6% DR from Imp RF and 4% from Spell Warding. Warriors get 10% from D.Stance and 6% from Imp. D.Stance. 4% difference for physical damage, and 6% for magical damage. Both are very significant numbers when it comes to tanking.

>Pursuit of Justice

Having 2-3% chance to avoid spell damage is pretty insignificant. Evasion becomes better the more you have, but is also worse the less you have. Going from 0% avoidance to 3% avoidance doesn't mean much. The way I see it is this: if the dragon breathes fire on the tank for half of the tank's HP every 10 seconds, healers will have a heal queued up to land on the tank as soon as the breath goes off. Having the breath be resisted generally won't mean much. I can go into more specific details on why it doesn't matter much, but it would be a case by case basis.

>talent choices

Non-sequitur. Poor talent choices don't have much of anything to do with Prot Paladins being played perfectly being worse than the other two tanks.

>complaining about low armor/HP

Like I said above, Paladins had to sacrifice more stats to reach uncrushable status than Warriors did. A Warrior was able to be uncrushable, while being able to use gear/gems/enchants with more stam and armor on it. In other words, once Warriors became crit immune, they could start stacking armor/HP/avoidance without worrying about threat. Paladins had to get a fair amount of block rating, while wearing some spell power items. Result was that Warriors had more bonus stam on their gear, more base HP, and could wear gear with bonus armor, while Paladins generally had to make sacrifices to tank effectively.

>Blood Elf Paladins and mana

The amount of mana they gained was a drop in the bucket compared to how much mana Paladins spent and received from healing. I never noticed a difference between the amount of time BEs and Alliance Paladins had to spend drinking. And the drink after every pull is neither an hyperbole or a meme, it was a reality that Prot Paladins had to drink frequently in heroics. Even with SoW/JoW/BoW, and conservative use of mana, Paladins still had to drink every 2-3 pulls on a good day, or every pull on a bad day.

f5f23d  No.16557739



>Prot Paladin advantages

Of course they had advantages. Druids had advantages over Warriors, and Warriors had advantages over Druids, and both had advantages over Paladins. The issue was that Paladins had generally weaker or more niche advantages, on top of being generally weaker in terms of survivability.

>Salv mattered

Warriors and Druids generated so much more threat than Paladins that Paladins had to rely on Salv to compete. Especially on single targets.

>mandatory pocket CCs to hold aggro

You needed CC to survive in heroics. Even T6 geared tanks needed CC in most heroics in order to not fall over dead. But I do agree that when you were grossly overgeared, and on the pulls where CC wasn't a requirement, Paladins had an easier time getting initial aggro on multiple mobs than Warriors or Druids did. And I said easier, but I didn't say they were better at it. It just took a hell of a lot of work for Warriors and Druids to do it well. But when Warriors and Druids did it well, they were better than Paladins. It's the same concept as tanking Hyjal: you had Prot Paladins do it because it was easy, not because it was better.

PS: I played an Alliance Paladin for most of TBC. I healed and tanked, both 5 mans and raids. Then I rerolled Warrior to main tank for a friend's Horde guild. The difference between tanking as Paladin and Warrior was astounding. I already knew Paladins were shit from trying to tank with them, both before and after the multitudes of talent improvements that Paladins got throughout TBC. Similarly geared Warriors just took less damage, died less, and generated more threat. You're not the first person to get upset at having Prot Paladins being called bad in TBC. Tank balance was a complete joke up until I quit in Cata, and from what my friends who kept playing, it was and still is a complete joke up to this day. Warriors were the gods of vanilla, Warriors and Druids shared the domination of TBC, Death Knights broke Wrath.

967b81  No.16558061

File: f7b77caf774568b⋯.jpg (128.06 KB, 607x800, 607:800, MNGA.jpg)

Apparently people are getting banned from Twitch for saying "Naga" while playing WoW classic.

7befea  No.16558381



Also the joke in unedited picture is that her hat reads "sprint trainer" which is kind of funny since she'd be teaching you how to use legs without having them herself.

b2ba86  No.16558412

File: 33245e96094d7f2⋯.png (15.36 KB, 578x712, 289:356, Blizzdrone2.png)



000000  No.16558423


>WoW apologist is desperate for validation of his expensive time-wasting habit

I'm sorry anon, but you wasted a ton of time and money on a shit game.

000000  No.16558429



I want in on this comedy.

6919b6  No.16558473


There's a lot of old memes that use it in place of nigger. "naga stole my bike" and so on.

000000  No.16558512


There were a bunch of jokes about [The Nicker] too, which was the slowest axe in the game.

7befea  No.16558591


Blizzard actually changed that weapon's name some time after because of that.

7befea  No.16558593



1333c9  No.16559353



If you're too poor to play the Classic revival why are you in this thread?

9ee60e  No.16559745


[The Nicker] was actually a great pre-raid weapon

1cbc16  No.16559994


It's obviously spotty data. I played from day 1. I was actually in the closed beta for vanilla.


Also I was 2k+ in 2's in season 2 and only missed merciless glad by a cunthair.

1cbc16  No.16559996


Meant to include reply for >>16556966

1cbc16  No.16560019


>NO YOU FUCKING IDIOT. Imp. Howl was a Burning Crusade thing. Did not exist in vanilla. If you ever played a warlock in vanilla you'd've known their spec, SM/Ruin, has no imp. howl.

I stand corrected. Like I said I played rogue / war for vanilla in actual vanilla and played tbc onward as lock so I must be getting it mixed up as far as when imp howl came out.

I forget, but a lot of trinkets do not cover seduce afaik. This is when you roll gnomish engineer and hit them with a rocket helmet if you really need a bit of time off. If you want to be REALLY cheeky you could bust out the old handy dandy bag of four winds and blast them. A not insignificant amount of times it polymorphs them.

fa970c  No.16560188


>muh poorfag

Again, this shit is a bit pricey and runescape has more content per dollar.

1333c9  No.16560257


Then play runescape and participate in runescape threads

a40ec1  No.16560267

File: 07222588d70552c⋯.png (129.84 KB, 233x316, 233:316, 19713e906c08439c4bef63a2a4….png)


I wasted 20 of those ten seconds reading your gay ass question. Fuck you that's why.

fa970c  No.16560286


Maybe you should go back to cuckchan instead?

1333c9  No.16560341


If you want to continue sperging about people being able to pay for entertainment that's up to you but I'm going to keep laughing at you for being poor

2aa545  No.16560365


>paying for a 14 year old game

wew. Yeah, I bet they don't do it because they're poor, and the quality of a 14 year old gear treadmill/walking simulator has nothing to do with it.

1333c9  No.16560462


I hear runescape has more content for the dollar

2aa545  No.16560474


I hear everything has more content for the dollar than world of paypigs

1333c9  No.16560488


Than you should be doing anything else but hanging out in a classic wow thread, hm?

2aa545  No.16560498


It's fun to laugh at paypigs.

1333c9  No.16560515


Almost as fun as it is to laugh at poor people

ae7a33  No.16560517

File: fecc3f3f347b408⋯.gif (2.62 MB, 438x383, 438:383, thecatch.gif)


Stop responding to such horrible bait.

4ed408  No.16560547


I actually think the guy has autism or straight from reddit.

c73907  No.16560620

File: 9ee20d53f17b85d⋯.jpg (12.16 KB, 184x184, 1:1, 9ee[2].jpg)

>STOP spending money on videogames i don't like!

>/v/ - videogames

just hide the thread???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

846b6b  No.16560931

File: 9d83cb0a0da6e58⋯.png (43.43 KB, 326x147, 326:147, totally not dead game.png)

Dungeon queue middle of Sunday afternoon. Also Blizz servers were down like 6 hours on Friday for no apparent reason; it definitely was not from load.

2aa545  No.16561534


Finally getting what they wanted then, destroying their own game.

Not that that will stop their battered housewife of a subscription base from giving them money until they close the game for good.

1333c9  No.16562414


I encourage those types of people to play private servers then

6a7ce4  No.16562832

Who cares Classic is going to be ruined anyway by streamer faggots and their dickriders, plus nublizz and Zoomer cancer spamming trash. Top it off by activision seeing the popularity and Monetising the fuck out of it. Classic will be a whores dead corpse getting gangbanged raped bukkaked

e51fad  No.16563037

>been private servers for years that had/have decent pop size

>they were also free

Why bother then? So you can experience the game tuned properly becase private servers had everything 1% off?

1333c9  No.16563223


lol just close the thread nigga lol like just go be poor somewhere else

e74f63  No.16563632


>world of warcraft

I cannot thimk or comprehend how anyone could play this game for longer than ten minutes, much less actually enjoy it.

1333c9  No.16564027


>how dare people play a video game I don't like

Suit yourself

be0d7f  No.16564073

File: 083b3e944c42cbc⋯.jpg (27.52 KB, 377x351, 29:27, impressive_.jpg)


2021b5  No.16564809


So you can experience something private servers can never offer: Noobs.

000000  No.16564913


>I forget, but a lot of trinkets do not cover seduce afaik.

Trinket vs Warlock list:

Warrior: None

Shaman: None

Hunter: None

Rogue: Both Fear and Seduce (Rogues really needed buffs against Warlocks)

Mage: Fear only

Priest: Fear only

Warlock: Both Fear and Seduce

Druid: Both Fear and Seduce

Paladin: Fear only

Note that on any given PvP server something like 80% of horde mages and priests are undead, and thus have WotF. Shamans have Tremor Totem (which breaks fear and charm effects in an aoe in regular pulses), Grounding Totem (which will cause your CC to fail and DR anyway), Earth Shock (which will interrupt your cast), and Searing Totem (which can inflict enough casting loss to make it impossible to cast fear anyway if the shaman does damage rapidly enough). Also the initial pulse on Earthbind Totem can be used to knock rogues and succubi out of stealth/invis by debuffing them. Warriors can also be undead (they usually aren't) and have Berserker Rage / Recklessness / Death Wish (if Fury) for fear immunity, but have no way to get charm immunity without playing undead, unless you count Skull of Impending Doom, Restorative Potion, or Shadow Reflector trinket (if they are insane Crystal of Zin-Malor trinket can also be used, but that stunt only started catching on in Burning Crusade when combined with resilience and a HoT the damage would become negligible, and in early WotLK Blizz removed this trick). In group PvP Paladins can become effectively immune to seduce by spamming Blessing of Sacrifice (and they can become immune to everything with Divine Shield). In solo PvP, they would die regardless of whether or not you used a Succubus. A hunter can do damage rapidly enough (combined with their pet) to make a warlock unable to get off fear, but against Seduce their only weapon is to have their pet intimidate (BM spec) the succubus and stun her out of the seduction channel, although she can re-seduce.

If you're playing Horde Succubus is viable for world PvP. If you're playing alliance, it's not.

Addendum: It's fun to note that Warlocks have one of the most worthless PvP trinkets, as theirs removes fear, charm, and polymorph - all CCs from classes warlocks do not need trinkets to win against (esp. if the Warlock is undead or running with a Felhunter or Succubus or equipping a Spellstone) - mages, priests, and other warlocks. The mirror matchup is one where both sides will have the same trinket anyway (and the UD warlock has the advantage). The only matchup it can really improve is when you trinket out of a Warrior's Intimidating Shout (assuming you're not UD in which case you don't need the trinket at all).


I hope you realize you're just making a fool out of yourself.


>pservers don't ban you for saying there are only two genders like the safespace cucks who makeup Blizz's GMs do.

Sorry to disappoint but pserver GMs do it for free.


I experienced massive noobs on Nostalrius. Classic will probably be worse though.

e12cbf  No.16564946

Would you all stop pretending like WoW was anything other than shit from the very start?

2021b5  No.16564986


How do you know it's shit, it's not even out yet?

f5f23d  No.16565424


I joined a Molten Core partial guild run + pugs in the early days of Kronos 2. No one in the raid knew how to do the trash. No one understood how to the bosses, they just knew what the abilities did. The guild that hosted the run was hyped up at "becoming the with the fastest MC clears on the server!". This blatant display of ignorance has been a common re-occurrence on every private server I've played on. I'd say that less than 5% of the players I've ran into on private servers were above decent. The rest were LFR tier retards, or players who played a bit a decade ago and forgot everything, or complete newbs.

7da073  No.16565885


>Northdale had 14k people on launch

Yea i call bullshit on that one, same as Nost claiming they had 15k people during their peaks which majority of people with brain know its impossible on a vanilla server (core shits itself when it goes over 5k people and shuts down when it reaches 6k players).

After Nost betrayed their own playerbase and later on gave the core to Elysium we saw that they were using 2.5x multiplier for the server population meaning they were faking the population numbers.

>Pservers are incredibly close to actual vanilla values, and the blizzard folks scoffing that they pserver people didnt crack some arbitrary variable to define where onyxia's breath rotation came from reeked of an increasingly nervous dev team who realized their game was very successfully cloned by enthusiasts.

This is true in 90% of the cases regarding boss fights

1cbc16  No.16567186


I was there at the first ten minutes of Ndale launch, it was 14K at /who. If they manipulated the /who query then that would be the only way. Ndale was extremely crowded.

7da073  No.16567413


Only way to check server pop as a non-GM player is through /who and yes thats how servers manipulate the numbers, for example Molten/Warmane did this alot so they could sell passes that let you go through the alleged 12-16k player queue

1cbc16  No.16567544


Ndale doesnt cash shop like Warmane though. The mods of Ndale 100% were paid off by the guild Progress though.

As for population, Ndale has a huge international population. You dont ever see 14k online at one time anymore, but on Horde, the massively outmanned faction, the massive cities were bustling like crazy at all hours because each region going to bed meant the next was coming online. The chinese presence was enormous for example. Probably equal amount EU/NA + CN so the 14k makes sense.

7da073  No.16567722


Every server does something, i know that Elysium and Lights Hope sell characters fully decked to top guilds or rich kids, Nost used to do the same but they were more subtle and Pottu was censoring everything on the forums

It has big pop but defo not 14k, first of all Mangos core cannot handle more than 5 to 6k people unless the developers put shitload of money to push the core even more, second of all if they did the first thing your view distance would suffer, with 14k people online you wouldnt be able to see more than 12-15 yards infront of you in open world.

TBC cores are better in this regard because Blizzard made huge changes for the expansion, Wotlk cores are even better for smaller cost.

1cbc16  No.16567857


>sell characters

I never minded. These people are usually trash at the game. Gotta keep the lights on and maybe make a bit of coin separating fools and their money.

I believe it wasnt 14k, but it was definitely 2-3 times the wow intended server pop. Server intended pop is 3500 so 10-12k total isnt surprising.

7da073  No.16567929


average population for vanilla servers was between 2000 and 2500, in later expansions it was increased due to new hardware

f75e79  No.16568283


>he thinks it's about the price and not the fact that you're paying monthly for it forever

1333c9  No.16568537


>thinks paying monthly for something is a strange concept

How old are you

8cbdd2  No.16569635


>people vote with their wallets

no meme economics please

f75e79  No.16569892



Yeah anything you have to say is invalid at this point

1333c9  No.16569995


Oh no! Where do I go to file an appeal?

f245ff  No.16570361

File: 6d7779c523a5381⋯.jpg (137.69 KB, 707x1000, 707:1000, 6d7779c523a53818d984fd9603….jpg)


Cause blood elves are cute. I was a blood elf pally at one point as well, before taking the dwarf pill.

84ea10  No.16570452

File: bd8594dcc5e4535⋯.jpg (106.27 KB, 1080x1207, 1080:1207, a82691dd-f892-4da6-83ed-c1….jpg)

Subscription fees in games are an extremely archaic system and needs to die already. In the past it was understandable when internet speeds were limited and the hardware was weaker, but now it does nothing but pad the annual revenue for the publisher while providing nothing in return for the game itself. The only other game I can think of that has such a system at the moment it is Final Fantasy XIV and when I ask why people are okay with paying for it, they say it's either worth it or that it keeps the quality of the playerbase high which is a fair point and well made.

It feels that every consumer industry is attempting to move away from ownership and instead offering subscription based solutions for their products as well, even in fucking cars demanding some sort of retarded subscription service while making maintaining them harder and more difficult for the average customer.

Companies are slowly trying to phase away ownership and independence of their products; most products now come with a chain that shackles them to the seller, which the company then yanks when they want more money.

TL;DR convenience has a subscription fee, don't fall for it anons

70389d  No.16570742


>No source, so take it with a grain of salt.

You should've just prefaced your post with this sentence you fucking communist.

781ea5  No.16572909


Nostalrius had a ton of useless cunts who knew very little about classic if anything at all.

Hell I remember most tanks didnt pull mobs and just charged towards them aggroing half the dungeon.

c73907  No.16588283


avoid streamshit servers ez. they'll all probably play on the same one for epic "ASMONGOLD KILLS SWIFTY!?!" faggotry.

as for zoom zooms, you can actually have a reputation since we're back to real server communities, so faggots can be easily shunned

43975d  No.16589028

>mmochampion sold again

>reasonable posters: "maybe dont make all your focus a dying blizzard game not many users even like"

>retarded mongoloids: "fucking liberals pushing classic wow ruin everything, enjoy your dead safe space cucks!!!"

I would ask whats the deal with these insecure retailfags but i think i know its just an extrapolation of the sunk cost brand loyalty with an added layer of "how DARE you say my version can be replaced! that indirectly means im stupid for spending time and money on it and thats a personal attack!".

3ab064  No.16589049


Subs are by far the best system for MMOs. You need to die already.

9dad53  No.16589456


I wouldn't say the 'best' system, but out of all of the systems thus far it has been the most fair. Considering that company selling this shit is inclined towards making more money consistently, I'd ideally prefer to appeal their sense of rationality over immediate greed by offering a steady trickle of shekels for a level playing field offset by my own in-game effort, than a free-for-all wild wild west of p2w (i.e seeing who has the most money to throw at a company so that they can completely ruin the distinction between fantasy world and reality right from its inception)

Ideally you need to find a system that favours equal opportunity from the start for the players involved, without being a massive waste of money for the company behind it. The truth is that it'll never happen because the system is tailored to where the money is. That speech given by dice years ago about the free battlefield title explained to a t. that people a) like to buy advantages, and b) liked it about 700% more if they could buy them without their opponents being explicitly informed of their advantages. Meaning the reason this cancerous shit exists is because people are fucking scum who can not, and WILL not permit a system of merit to exist even in fantasy.

71264e  No.16594891


Not hyped because I've played classic on a pserver for quite some time anyway but still it's the best thing happening to WoW since Burning Crusade and I'll probably play it at least a little because it comes out when I actually will have time for it.

Classic was cool because you were actually doing shit in the world rather than bouncing from one end of Dalaran to the other one while waiting for raidinvite and shitposting in /2 and /4

2b6619  No.16595455

Just a reminder that anyone complaining about dire maul is a complete retard as in Vanilla, Rag wasn't killed until over a month after DM was released.

Meanwhile they ignore 1.12 talents, nerfed ubrs/stratholme/scholo, and the increased xp that world mobs give. These things are what will trivialize content. Back in the day, mages couldn't even AoE level the way they do now on private servers, as arcane explosion had a 1.5 second cast time unless you put 5 talent points into it.

f5f23d  No.16595585


>salty dumbfuck that thinks vanilla wasn't trivial as fuck

The reason people complain about DM being on launch is that it partially invalidates the other dungeons. You get your the 2-3 items you need out of Strath/Scholo/LBRS and then spam run DM with a dash of UBRS. And BRD forever if you're melee.

2a810b  No.16595664

File: 982e7fda287bb61⋯.jpg (225.85 KB, 678x457, 678:457, 789076.jpg)


>Subs are by far the best system for MMO.

No, they're not.

The modern day audience for MMOs only pay for a month or two then stop because they'll usually have accomplished what they wanted too by then. But in that span of time you'll only roughly have an extra $30 per person playing on your sub only product. So if you have like only 10k active subs for 2 months, it'll be below the million mark which isn't good if your product does essentially cost millions. Meanwhile the Buy to Play model with a cash shop is both alot more profitable as creating 'content' for the cash shop is almost as easy as changing textures on already existing models and it's alot less expensive for the modern day audience due to them actually only needing to buy the game and any 'expansions' released that year. Most of the revenue earned in a year will ultimately come from the cash shop though, mainly whales who spend ridiculous amounts per month with the most profitable things being "Battle Passes", "change tokens" aka name/ race changes, and Housing crap. If you release an expansion for any game you'll always see an uptick in pop count, regardless of what product it is. What really matters is how many active users per year you have, since the more active users you have the more revenue you'll have. But if your products pop count is below a certain mark then investors will jump ship and so will the players too, so this is why such a thing isn't normally advertised. As of late though there has been a growing trend of users not wanting to pay for a sub fee so game companies have now resorted to giving them rewards for being subbed in their sub only game, from FFXIV veteran rewards to even WoWs dreadwake mount. The sub only mmo just isn't that appealing anymore to the modern demographic, everyone wants to just buy the game and play it. That's why the "best" system for mmos is the b2p model as you're still allowing users to just buy the game and play it (just as they wanted) but your also earning a steady profit from your cash shop. I'm aware cash shops are a plague but the fact is, is that whether you like it or not they are a very profitable feature to have in your online product in this age of gaming.

f5f23d  No.16595692


Sheeps would pay the sub price gladly if the game was popular enough, even without any cosmetic microtransaction fuckery. The problem is that nobody wants to invest either the money or the time into making a truly great MMO. Why waste 10 years of development time and hundreds of millions of dollars to make an MMO when it has a chance of failing to be the next WoW? Better to go with the asset-flip mentality: have your devs and engineers shitting out a fresh game/expansion every 8-10 months, and then have your artists make new skins and models all year long to print money for the company. Devs can get as starry-eyed-doe'd as they want, they'll quickly have to face the reality that making the type of MMO that would make gamers willing to pay a sub fee takes a tremendous amount of effort.

1333c9  No.16595809


>supporting cash shops

Whale detected

2b9676  No.16596284

File: 02509c03d6a0bff⋯.png (17.54 KB, 369x546, 123:182, wowsub.png)



Finally got mine back. lol I knew I was casual, didn't know I was that casual though. Most of my Wow memories do consist of running around mining stuff though, so I guess it's to be expected. I also completely forgot I re-subbed for like two months back in late 2010

c73907  No.16603094

are shamans any good? i'm considering maining enhance for pvp

7f95b3  No.16609323


i haven't paid for a single thing from blizzard since WoD came out with the tokens.

games not hard, and it never was.

but there were times it was good, MoP was the last.

and everything good in legion came from Xelnath's time as warlock/shaman class lead.


im gonna laugh my ass off when the investors lynch that fat fuck with the mismanagement suit.

he single-handedly killed RTS.


a reminder, cory stockton confirmed the only reason the horde got BEs was for imaginary korean girlfriends.


>No, they're not.

>The modern day audience for MMOs only pay for a month or two then stop because they'll usually have accomplished what they wanted too by then

that's a good argument for why subs are a great way of telling how interesting the gameplay of the game actually is, if the carrot is the only thing people want then it's clear that the game itself is trash, which modern post-casualclysm WoW most assuredly is.

e89967  No.16609341


a few guys on the WoW forums said enh is the worst PvP spec

they're pretty RNG-reliant

bff741  No.16609508


If you really want to you can look up henhouse wow server. It's a pvp duel only server, you make a character, it's instant 60, and you get some of the BiS gear from up to BWL, as well as rank 14 pvp gear. Try it out.

enhance shaman is like playing slot machines. You either wreck ass or sit around twiddling your thumbs while being kited and dying in a few globals

f5f23d  No.16612015


It's shit. Don't be fooled by montage videos, you'll get bullied in wPvP and in BGs: Enh is Ret Paladin tier. It was a hell of a lot of fun before the WF nerf though.

>sometimes you proc WF really skillfully and you just win by default

>you get Purge and r1 Earth Shock spam

<if you don't proc WF a lot and get a big crits, you lose to everyone, hard

<you're squishy

<you're easily kited

<you don't do a lot of sustained dps

<you have a tiny mana pool

796638  No.16612036

File: 10979713145c7e7⋯.png (252.34 KB, 798x472, 399:236, 1471432607723.png)


its a nice alternative to 5 man tanking if you know what you are doing. But by 60 you will want to gear up for healing instead.

4a70f4  No.16612354


Do you realise private wow servers are merely emulations of the real thing? Just because they have sniffed packets exchanged between server and client doesn't meant they have the source code. Nothing besides the client data has ever been "leaked". You are spreading bullshit and you clearly don't know anything about computers or software or wow servers.

720d89  No.16612454


Not him, and obviously they're emulated, but after years of progress they're easily just as good as the retail vanilla back in the day, both in scripting and in mob values.

Also, blizzard's classic isn't "the real thing" either, regarding both the client and the way the servers work for sharding, reports, etc.

e1cd51  No.16612510


not to mention blizz has stated that they're basically just making up values, making it just a private server you pay 15$ a month for

e89967  No.16612569



95d317  No.16612583

I have never played any iteration of WoW. Why should I? Is it worth it, or does it boil down to a billion fetch quests that are interspersed between the occasional raid boss + some pvp? If so, then that shit can fuck right off.

2d2f28  No.16612729


well yeah if you hate mmos you hate mmos.

6d3c53  No.16612737

2a810b  No.16612764

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.


> Is it worth it, or does it boil down to a billion fetch quests that are interspersed between the occasional raid boss + some pvp?

All of the content in 'classic' wow is just WoW questing with some pvp tossed in and only 4 raids. The rest of it is just Instanced Dungeons which in total is 28 and nearly all of them have quests tied to them as well, along with the quests being tied to your class too. There was alot of fetch quests as well, mainly created as either a filler quest or a quest that's designed to lead the player to another spot/zone.

If I recall correctly there was about 1000 total quests in 'classic' by the end of it, give or take. By the end of Wotlk the end eventually got creatively bankrupt and the quests they were officially adding in only made this more evident, especially when they add in a quest named 'fetch'.

> WoW. Why should I?

No, it's not worth even playing since there is other mmos in the genre that do a better job as a mmoRPG then this shitshow ever did. Your going to be seeing some massive hyping by blizzdrones soon for Classic WoW because they're on a massive Nostalgia high. But this high will crash hard after the classic re-launches, You'll also be seeing a few streamers playing it during the launch as well who 'might' have been paid to play it by the company.


>thinks WoW questing is the only questing in mmos.

You need to leave that WoW bubble, anon.

720d89  No.16612813


Well there's 4 40-man raids, 2 20-man raids, onyxia, then 7 worldbosses.

5e4ee3  No.16612899

File: c3bee5ae300683a⋯.jpg (92.75 KB, 717x960, 239:320, retarded owl.jpg)


>We won't ever use this build again why keep it right?

f5f23d  No.16612955


Classic is less about the content and more about the social aspect. Most of the raid fights are pretty bad, the quests are boring, and the combat is pretty mindless unless you're a Holy Priest 5 second rule or a tank. The dungeons are varied and interesting, and most of them are more than just trash filled hallways connecting boss rooms together. The group PvP is amazing, and is surprisingly well balanced. But in the end, the only selling point is the MMO part of it: you get to know the people on your server and they know you. There's a certain familiarity that forms after a while, which turned the original WoW servers into small communities. If you don't care about that and you'd rather queue for your dungeons, then don't bother with Classic.


>easily just as good as the retail vanilla

Oh please. Nostalrius, Elysium, and Kronos all had a ton of issues which made them quite different from what vanilla was. The biggest one being the huge population of these realms, which went against the community building aspect of vanilla.

I was looking for a video for Brutallus quotes, and saw a kill video from the Warmane TBC server. The difference in tank damage between that Warmane server and the actual TBC experience is crazy. First video is Warmane, rest are actual TBC videos. Saying that private servers, either vanilla or TBC, are close to what we had on retail is disingenuous.





23b482  No.16612965


>Oh please. Nostalrius, Elysium, and Kronos all had a ton of issues which made them quite different from what vanilla was.

No significant ones. Several years ago Elysium/LH and Kronos weren't as great, but nowadays there's nothing wrong with them.

The huge population issue is real, but it's only on LH; Kronos usually didn't exceed 3-3.5k people, which was about what most 'High'-pop realms had during peak times in vanilla. I played on Laughing Skull (US) back then, and remember quite clearly.

Next, by linking to warmane, you're the one being disingenuous here. We were talking about vanilla, not TBC. It's well-known amongst the pserver community that tbc servers were notoriously shit. Gummy's server was pretty good, and nowadays allegedly Netherwing is decent, but other than that there haven't been any non-shit TBC servers. You can't link to TBC servers in a discussion about vanilla servers while simultaneously claiming the person you're arguing against is being disingenuous; you're the only one who is.

f5f23d  No.16612993


I made a Hunter on Chink's Hope a few weeks ago because I was bored as fuck. Growl was retarded, I just couldn't pull aggro off of my pet, no matter what. I ran a Deadmines, and used a single Growl on Captain Greenskin when he was at 20% health and my pet pulled aggro - and I had my pet attacking the adds until they were both dead. Last I checked, mobs on Kronos and Chink's Hope still had their swing timers counting down while casting, which meant that casters mobs got instant swings off as soon as they finished casting. Mob pathing being shit, skills not working properly/having inaccurate values, mob damage being off Kronos was infamous for this, elites in RFK/RFD/SM hitting for 20-30 dmg, and worst of all Paladins on Nost having AP scaling on their spell. I had too many arguments with retards crying about Ret Paladins being good in vanilla and pointing at Nost as a reference. "No you're wrong and you're shit, Ret Paladins were amazing in vanilla, look at how much DPS I'm doing on this private server!".

>Netherwing is decent

It has a built-in half second lag on actions. I had 250-300ms back during vanilla/TBC/WotLK, and I can say with absolute confidence that TBC was significantly more responsive and smoother to play than that piece of shit Netherwing fake lag. Also,

>Netherwing is 100% scripted, come play on our server

>mobs in Mana Tombs are fighting each other

>every dungeon has multiple major bugs

>stuff they advertised as working flawlessly didn't work at all, most notably the Gnome ganking quest in Nagrand

In any case, I was making a broad statement about "private servers being accurate", which in my experience is laughable.

555b58  No.16613012


First, go make a hunter on Kronos real quick, because I have a 60 hunter there, and I can pull aggro with a single fucking multishot even after my pet building aggro with growls and attacks for 10 seconds.


>Last I checked, mobs on Kronos and Chink's Hope still had their swing timers counting down while casting, which meant that casters mobs got instant swings off as soon as they finished casting.

Fair enough.


>Mob pathing being shit, skills not working properly/having inaccurate values, mob damage being off Kronos was infamous for this, elites in RFK/RFD/SM hitting for 20-30 dmg

This shit again? Several fucking YEARS AGO, some mobs in RFD were tuned improperly. They've been fixed for years, and yet the one fucking video made by the guy way back then still gets brought up as evidence today. Are you actually joking? No, the values aren't inaccurate. 99% of the whole

>waaah kronis is inaccurate

shit comes from the fact, admitted by the LH devs, that LH overtunes its' content on purpose to make it harder. They've explicitly stated that they do this, and then when LH players come to kronos and see it's not overtuned anymore but just tuned normally, they cry out 'undertuned' because they're retards who can't form a single logical thought.

Can't confirm the ret pally issue on LH, but it doesn't work that way on kronis, although a ret pally with hand of rag and t2.5/pvp set can still destroy people decently. Without gear though they're just mobs.

Next, you'll notice I said allegedly when I brought up netherwing. I played it to level 12 and gave up because it kept crashing the entire first week, and never went back. That's why I used the word 'allegedly', to indicate that I hadn't tested it myself.

And regardless, you cannot use tbc private servers as evidence in an argument about the accuracy of vanilla servers.

f5f23d  No.16613020


>mob damage

That's my point, Chink's Hope, Nost, and Kronos all have inaccurate values. Kronos is too little, Chink's Hope is too high.

>Ret Paladins

That was on Nost, I don't know if it carried over to Elysium/Chink's Hope.


And that's why I corrected you, because I made the mistake of toughing out the crashes. I was one of the first to hit Outlands and realized that the server was in a state so bad it should have been laughed at if they had said it was an alpha test, as opposed to an actual launch.

>using TBC fuckery as an argument against vanilla

I didn't. I made a separate point. It's not reddit spacing, it's actual paragraph.

555b58  No.16613026


You claim that Kronos is too little; while perhaps there are some negligible variations, they sought to have it be accurate to retail vanilla, whereas LH intentionally overtuned it, so the two aren't the same. And I disagree that kronis is too low, based on having played vanilla back in the day and watching plenty of videos comparing it when I started playing again on kronos.

I mean your one example of the RFD mobs, I remember that. It was already fixed by the time I had started playing there, and yet people still kept bringing it up. If Kronos was really undertuned, and not just in the minds of some retards, then it would take no effort for them to have found other mobs who were similarly bad, and video it, and yet it's only the one video from RFD which gets posted over and over.

f5f23d  No.16613040


It doesn't matter if Chink's Hope's numbers are intentionally wrong and if Kronos' numbers are unintentionally slightly wrong. They're wrong, and it's easy to notice. When I played on Kronos, you didn't have to CC for 5 mans and the healer didn't have to sit down and drink, at least for the most part.

I don't know what you're talking about with RFD mobs though, all I know remember is that like every other dungeon on Kronos, it was a bit too easy. My memory of what vanilla was in 2005 is this: if you CCd properly, you usually didn't have to wait for your healer to drink. If the Warrior was 2h tanking, if your group was bad, or if you didn't use CC, then you frequently had to wait on the healer to drink. On Kronos, you could 2h tank without needing the healer to drink much, if at all. All of this is for the leveling dungeons, up to and including BRD. I didn't do enough of the 60 stuff on Kronos to remember well. Except for the Hunter boss in DMW, who was a nightmare to fight when DM came out, but was a total joke on Kronos AND Elysium/Chink's Hope.

af5c83  No.16613058


If you had a good group in vanilla, and your healer had decent gear for his level, then drinking was a minor issue and healers didn't have to as much. Otherwise, they did. That's how it was then and that's how it was now on kronos in my experience. As far as dungons and bosses go, there's plenty of videos from back in the day which show how things worked, in addition to some level of documentation from archived pages and such. But I guess your subjective opinion of

>I remember this game being harder when I played it back then

is more relevant, even though it's basically like saying

>back when I was 10 Yoshi's Island was so hard, but I went back a week ago and beat it and it wasn't a challenge at all! Clearly the game itself has changed.

d157f5  No.16613085


Except Yoshi's island wasn't remade and vanilla WoW was. Knowing (((Blizzard))) they probably lowered the difficulty to appeal to filthy casuals.

f5f23d  No.16613089


I wasn't talking about having a good group, I was talking about random pugs. The dynamic between a group where all 5 players are good, and a group with 1 good player and 4 awful-to-average players is night and day. Hell, the difference between a good tank and a decent tank is huge, insofar as healer mana is concerned at the very least.

>my memory sucks

I'm one of those freak of natures with amazing long term memories that can't remember what today's breakfast was. And besides, the few existing videos of actual vanilla leveling dungeons showed how much damage tanks took to some extent. Which was more than what tanks on Kronos took.

>I was 10 years old when Yoshi's Island came out

Don't make me grab my cane, sonny. Great game though. It's been too long since I last replayed it.

bff741  No.16615314


>whereas LH intentionally overtuned it

What a terrible fucking excuse for them to forgo actual normal values. Holy shit. I can't believe retards actually believe that.

Vanilla content isn't hard nor challenging. Having your level 10 mobs hit slightly harder for fuckall reasons does nothing but make leveling certain (already painful to level classes) even worse.

57b200  No.16616038

File: 8c9f76a2d596b59⋯.jpg (44.35 KB, 426x242, 213:121, download.jpg)

Wizzy joining standarts

1-no female characters

2-no faggots

3-no toxicity

4-griefing is acceptable if wizzy is upset

5-every simple quest is a big adventure style

6-always duo or more style so we don't feel lonely, we stick each others.

7-accept random social interaction

8-rp-pve server (we play under an another raiding guild umbrella, but with our special crew)

9-slow gaming open world questing together

10-we don't contest end-game content, no competition at all, but if wizzies wanna raid, we can always join pugs or merge into another guild just for particular raid then leave

11-hardcore casual: we will be online as hardcore raiders but stay casual

Succubus joining standarts

1-verified female

2-single irl

3-only healer female character

4-cooking skill 300

5-in-game marriage - she has to accept marry a volunteer wizzy before joining the crew, if there is a no volunteer to marry, she can't join.

6-no dancing around wizzies

7-no cloths off around wizzies

8-no flirt to other wizzies, no cheating


10-always hangs out with his husband, stays next to him

11-forbidden to whisper other wizzies without permission her husband

7da073  No.16616610



Vanilla WoW cost around 40 million to make over 5 years and had ~400k subs on launch, do you really think the company would have enough funds to pay all those people, server upkeep, to update hardware and continue pushing out content if it was F2P model?

Look what happened to BDO as example, game was B2P and had cosmetic shop but no content, they had to introduce P2W bullshit into the game to have enough funds to dish out new content.

384112  No.16624067

File: 52c5915029c2b86⋯.jpg (176.42 KB, 821x720, 821:720, son wizlam büyük.jpg)

File: 2892921a444e3ac⋯.png (15.25 KB, 410x130, 41:13, asdasd.png)


<WoWislam> [WoW Classic Guild] [EU][H] [RP-PVP-PVE] [Hardcore & Casual]

1-Islamic Sharia rules over the guild.

2-We are all Muslims. We are all Brothers. No discrimination.

3-No Shia & Sunni & Salafi & Sufi takfiri. No Madhab wars.


5-We are warm to each others, cold to non-muslims.

6-No other religions allowed.

7-No swearing.

8-No adultery posts.

9-Main purpose is "to create a Safe Heaven for Muslim WoW Classic players against Western Degeneracy"


ed7ba0  No.16625085

File: d25bd6dcffec581⋯.jpg (Spoiler Image, 85.33 KB, 557x1251, 557:1251, 2969727 - Potionaholic Wor….jpg)


Please name the MMOs doing better as an mmoRPG while also not failing the MMO portion of said genre.

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