/v/ - Video Games

The Strong Factin vs The Fast Faction vs The All-Round Faction

>resources appear in convenient clusters/fields

>basic infantry is useless on the field but good for packing into buildings and bunkers for static defence

>tech buildings to provide resources, buffs, etc.

>>8745688

Thats because both were made in the same engine

>>8745688

You forgot the unit/structure limit resource, which is usually food or energy when it is used.

>>8745519

Metal Fatigue did this in the worst way.

> Humans are the tech gurus

Unless it's a magical thing, in which case

> Humans are the kingdom race

> Goblins are the tech gurus

>>8745784

I don't quite consider that a resource, but it's another fundamental part.

>unit population limit

>construct housing buildings to increase it

>there's still an arbitrary maximum

>>8745455

Something I never liked about most RTS is how every base you build ends up looking like some outpost or military base. Never a proper city.

The closest you can get is with Stronghold or Rise of Nations, but even then it's just too small.

Also, the villagers\workers is always done in a dumb way. They count against your popcap, so you always have to sacrifice a few of your slots for your economy, and this just means you gotta figure the meta about how many is enough before you are decent.

There's also the way you select them and make them work. Either you can select them along side military units, which makes fighting in your cities really frustrating, or you can't. But then you mostly double click to select them all, even those that already have something do.

How hard would it be to have a system where you put a town center and this counts as a city (like in RoN). Now put houses around it and every house gives you 3 villagers, completely unrelated to popcap. And they belong to this village, meaning they will search for any job nearby that needs to be done (not the half done way they do it in RoN where they only search a little area around them).

Also, what's with resources being mostly used in the same way? You always have a farm\mine of some kind that produces it the more you have and the more villagers\workers you assign to it and it's always spent in fixed amounts everytime you recruit or research something.

Why don't more games make something like in Stronghold, (but not as deep) and have food simply being a resource passively consumed by your units. The more you have, the more you need to produce.

The only one that did something somewhat similar was War Wind 2.

>Units have unlimited ammunition

Earth 2150 did it different, but boy did that bite you in the ass once the enemy had anti-air weapons

>estación remota

usted tendrá que regresar

>>8745976

Was?

>RTS where the faction balance was tottally in favor of one faction, while the other is shitty, unless well managed.

Red Alert.

Also Total Annihilation. Is like the developers hated CORE or something, while ARM was always given all the cool stuff, regardless of balance.

>>8745455

>first unit is some basic infantry

>has gun/sword

>only useful against similar infantry

>cannot be upgraded to become versatile

>usually abandoned when better units are available

>>8746105

There were some really cool patches that fully balance TA.

Spring used to have some decent balanced TA games too, though I'm not sure what happened to Spring.

>Humans are the best faction

BLIZZARD

>>8745688

One just related to Age of Empires II

>Stone is rarer than gold.

>>8746159

>BLIZZARD

>Not being orcs.

Metzen would prefer to corrupt everything in warcraft lore than even out the Horde in a bad situation.

>>8746178

>stone is so rare that you are inclined to build castles next to any major stone deposits

Truly this is a fucked up war we are fighting

>>8745688

Galactic Battlegrounds was quite literally just AoE:II with a SW skin and unnecessary bloat.

>Enemy loses its main army

>Relentlessly spams cheapest units one at a time after that

Or

>Turret costs a lot of resource and is nearly useless

>Turret is cheap and destroys everything

>>8745894

RoN is too restrictive because you can't build houses or walls. So RoN's cities look nice but they aren't as expansive as AoEs.

I like your system though. Alot of classic RTS would be even better with more automation, but then would be considered too casualized.

>>8746313

This is why finite resources are better than infinite. They can be harvested fast enough that it forces the enemy to try and get it and shortens the early game.

>>8745894

>i never liked how every BASE you built ends up looking like a military BASE

Epic. Go play a citybuilder, retard.

>>8746149

still going. Balanced Annihilation is great.

back in the olden days a bunch of the game units were extra downloads from the Cavedog website, official mods.

>>8746545

Why don't we ever have Spring threads? Some simple instructions on installing it and setting up BA, and we could get some great RTS fun going.

>>8746597

Because FAFfags are hogging all the attention. I've seen a fair number of threads reduced to "lol, this is inferiour to FAF".

>>8746641

I've still never played Supreme Commander.

>>8746641

oh come on those are both great, no need to toss blame around.

Spring Chicken Defense maps are kinda fun

>>8746641

Well it's true that SupCom is still the best RTS ever made. Just saying. Doesn't mean you can't play others though.

>defensive mission

>you have to hold out against period attacks from an enemy that get stronger with each wave

>final wave is always intentionally impossible to stop and you've just got to desperately keep the enemy at bay until the clock runs out

I love these.

>>8746493

Fuck that, I love it when you get strategy games which have a focus on managing your base like it's an actual town/city, not every game has to soullessly treat them as a unit spawning zone. It's one of the great things about Stronghold.

>>8746751

What do you think of Ashes of Singularity? Will it be SupCom 2.0?

>>8746159

Terran is terrible

>>8746770

It was a godawful mockery of SupCom last time I played. It has apparently changed a good bit since I played it in Octoboer, and apparently most of my biggest complaints are now gone, so maybe it's better but I'm not sure.

It used to have tiny ass maps. Seems to be fixed.

Everything used to move at a ridiculously slow pace. Not sure that is fixed.

When I played, if you built a dreadnaught, you could ONLY control the dreadnaught from that point on. All your units would be forced into automatically circling your dreadnaught forever, and if you tried to select a unit, it'd just select the dreadnaught they're following instead. Seems to be fixed.

Unit numbers are inflated as fuck due to the fact that you build squads, not units. That works if it's infantry done like Company of Heroes (a small-scale micro game, not a macro game like AoS is supposed to be), but NEVER for fucking vehicles. Not fixed.

I might torrent it again and see what it's like now.

>>8745954

Needs more tigers

>>8745455

>starter base vs 3 enemies

Reminds me of the closing brood war campaign

>>8745894

>There's also the way you select them and make them work. Either you can select them along side military units, which makes fighting in your cities really frustrating, or you can't. But then you mostly double click to select them all, even those that already have something do.

KKND 2 solved this by only selecting military units if you dragged big enough to select both. Wouldn't be hard to make it work the other way around when shift was held down.

>>8746493

I don't mind the concept of military bases, Anon. But it's weird how they give you all these buildings you assume to be part of a town, but it never is.

If it was just Barracks, Mess Hall, First Aid Tent and Communications, a military base works just fine.

But when they give you Temple, Market, Granary, Hospital and try to pretend that it's an actual city with a civilization living there, when in reality it's just a resource dropoff point with a few unit-spawning buildings that I kinda get sad.

>you start with a huge base that gets overrun and you have to retreat to a small easily defended corner of it, then retake the base + rest of the map

>>8745688

How the fuck do you do something besides that.

>>8746760

fug, anon, now I want to play one of those missions

what games do you know of that have them?

>>8745894

>every base you build ends up looking like some outpost or military base. Never a proper city

>let's build a city full of cinemas and candy stores and sheet in the middle of intergalactic war with aliums, what could possibly go wrong

>>8747193

Play Age of Empires then.

>>8747384

>Let's make villagers units that join a city according to morale\happiness\other factors, instead of yet another unity you recruit for 50 Basic Resource

>Let's add buildings that increase happiness in your town but cost resources and space, making it a tactical choice between happiness or productivity

>Let's make the army being recruited from the available villagers, so a small village can't make a very large army and you can produce soldiers as fast as you can get villagers instead.

>Let's make a game where deathmatch isn't the only way to win the game

>Let's make a game where not all units with the exception of the worker are military ones

>Let's make a game that features more building types than just "make army here", "get tech here" or "drop resources here"

I mean… Seven Kingdoms 1 and 2 did it really nice. So did Stronghold, so did Sins of a Solar Empire… Even Empire Earth, both 1 and 2 had buildings performing other functions, like immunity to Miracles or Conversion, healing adjacent units. Houses gave you a moral bonus, which gave defenders an advantage defending their territories, and you could put people inside drop off points to increase the resources gained there. There was at least a bit more to it than just putting one Warehouse near every resource point, houses surrouding your Town Center and rows of barracks\stables nearby cranking out troops…

>>8747562

You know, I never understood why the concept of drivers and fuel never made it to an RTS. It could be an interesting feature to balance vehicles versus infantry, instead of just putting some rocketlauncher that kills most vehicles in 2 hits.

Having to put troops inside your vehicles to have them drive, with drivers yielding better results (faster, more maneuverable and maybe more attack\defense).

If a vehicle was destroyed, before it exploded, the driver and any passenger would first get out and you could take them back to your base.

Also, vehicles running on fuel that you had to produce. If they ran out, the vehicle was imobile (but still a solid barrier for defense, as well as any mounted gun) and you would have to send some engineer squad or supply vehicle to refill it. Or just have a resource that's consumed whenever vehicles drive around, so targeting your fuel sources means you'd have to do it without vehicles.

>The most popular competitive map is always the ugliest and less creative one

>The whole campaign is just an extended tutorial with missions dedicated to teaching you how to use unit X/game feature Y

>The campaign gets really challenging only in the expansion

>If the game has multiple superweapons and existing nukes, the bulkiest faction gets nukes for superweapon

>Orcs and dorfs are always tough guys

>>8745688

>It's just one collectible resource for everything, plus population cap/energy limit

>>8747647

>You know, I never understood why the concept of drivers and fuel never made it to an RTS.

A few have actually, but never combined. Earth 21 series of games had ammo resupply being important and Submarine Titans required not only ammo, but Oxygen Or energy if playing Silicon** to function. A game called Arsenal: Taste the Power actually had fuel as an important resource for your armies to function and you needed to build not only oil refinery's but fuel trucks to resupply your forces.

>>8747647

Men of War and Soldiers: Heroes of World War 2 did this really well if I recall correctly, and even included limited ammunition so you'd have to bring in supply trucks every now and then to restock the reserves.

I remember having my tanks disabled by AT turrets, but the crew would jump out and either run to cover quickly or get torn to shreds. The empty tank itself could be used as cover too.

>>8747647

Men of War and Soldiers: Heroes of World War 2 did this really well if I recall correctly, and even included limited ammunition so you'd have to bring in supply trucks every now and then to restock the reserves.

I remember having my tanks disabled by AT turrets, but the crew would jump out and either run to cover quickly or get torn to shreds. The empty tank itself could be used as cover too.

>>8747647

Drivers was a thing in Metal fatigue. Dunno about fuel but there was an RTS which had ammo and resupply. It was called Conquest Frontier Wars and the ammo limit made certain gimick units worthless because they drained all the ammo from your supply ships like crazy.

>>8747764

>>8747781

Yeah, I heard about that game, but people didn't liked that whole idea because of how it was implemented. You didn't just had to drive a truck with new ammo for your troops, you actually had to manually pick every ammo box and drag it into a soldiers inventory manually to do that. Many people said it was better to toss the previous soldier as a meat shield and order a new one with all the ammo already on their inventory.

If only the game had a "resupply" button that you could press to make soldiers search nearby inventories (from dead bodies, chests, trucks) to pick ammo for their weapons, this would be pretty great.

>>8747813

Codename Panzers did this better. You just drive your supply truck up to your units and watch bullets magically transferred to your units. Same with repair trucks/

>>8747562

At least in Tib Sun I could hit x and make them scatter. Wish I didn't need to completely micro manage their stupid little lives.

>>8747813

That's quite true mate. Lots of micromanagement that you really didn't have an awful lot of time for if you've got a few battles going on at once, and especially if you're playing multiplayer.

>>8747861

Yeah, OpenRA before they fucked it up due to causing irrepairable butthurt due to an engineer rush against not one, but two guys in a 5vs5 :^) actually had welcome improvements such as attack move and autoscatter for infantry but then they had to change the game into some weird shit rather than well, Red Alert.

>>8747764

>even included limited ammunition so you'd have to bring in supply trucks every now and then to restock the reserves.

Yeah but it was retarded having to micromanage EVERY single unit for ammo.

>>8747424

Battle For Middle Earth II? You can't split formations iirc, but each unit is a squad. I think you can combine them but that might be I and not II.

>>8746760

Wings of Liberty had it that one level in the campaign where you have to hold some important archive or whatever, playing as Protoss.

>start with a set amount of troops

>OUR TROOPS WERE CAPTURED BY THE ENEMY, WE NEED TO RESCUE THEM!

>have to do the first part of the level with no base until you find the guys who can build a base

>>8754279

At least that game doesn't make infantry worthless.

>>8745519

This is pretty easy to justify, just as the tech being new, the army being rebels or rangers (as it was with Starcraft), not having found the troops yet (Warcraft 3) or not having the authority (C&C).

>>8746431

I liked SC1's turrets. A lot of them had decent damage but a fast attack rate and outranged most early units when unupgraded, making them able to deter early offense.

>>8747601

Truth be told, I think the biggest folly of the RTS genre is deathmatch/conquest/annhilation etc being the only win condition. The game is usually over before it happens. I can't for the life of me think of alternatives though.

>>8745894

Too few games follow the example of Spellforce. A separate unit limit for workers only, and a button for selecting all idle workers at once.

>>8745954

>impossible to get without cheating due to pop limit usually too low and exhaustible resources

>Population cap

>enemy has fuckhuge base

>have to destroy some superweapon with a single overpowered unit

>>8745981

chichi?

I just put a mod on Dawn of War Soulstorm to unlock the population cap. But I think the AI doesn't realise it's unlocked and will not build units to 999, sticking to a hardcoded 20.

I hate when the AI just follows a pre-set list of things to do, it's just not fun.

>>8747299

Warcraft 3 had one during the Human Campaign with you defending against Undead attacks.

And as >>8754258 says Wings of Liberty had some as well.

>>8747599

That's precisely the sort of game that anon was complaining about.

>>8754877

>I hate when the AI just follows a pre-set list of things to do, it's just not fun.

That reminds me

>Cheating AI is Hard AI

>>8754940

Fug, I remember that, it was hard as shit at max difficulty. I think I only got by buying a couple extra minutes running peasants off.

>>8754951

>watch replay of vs. AI match

>the AI just randomly spawns huge groups of units out its ass and sends them at you

Why even fucking bother making an RTS if you can't AI?

>>8755057

What was AoE 3's difficulty like? Me and my friends tried to play as a 3 man team vs. and AI 3 man team and the AI 3 man team had a fully functional army by the time we managed to get some basic resources together. I think they were just on normal too.

>>8754940

But Age of Empires lets you build huge bases that look like cities. Unless we're talking about the godawful AoE3.

>>8755057

AoE2 has some really fucking good user-made AIs.

>>8745842

Aside from Warcraft, I don't recall any game doing that.

>>8745455

>That campaign battle in Tiberium wars

it was great, i really had to take advantage of everything at hand to overcome the NOD

>>8755252

they admitted that they really shit the bed with 3, so difficulty probably equals cheating with the AI otherwise playing optimally at all difficulties

according to AoE3 forum:

>The only difference in different difficulties is that it gives different amounts of handicap.

>I tested it once and these are the rates:

>Sandbox: -70%

>Easy: -50%

>Moderate: -25%

>Hard: 0%

>Expert: 50%

sounds like you and your friends weren't terribly familiar with the game, normal AI will rek you in any Age game until you know it well (biggest thing is usually new players not maintaining constant villager production)

>>8755323

gonna try some of those once I'm done the campaigns (hadn't beat them all on hard on my old disc)

>>8755380

I see Stronghold mentioned a lot when GOAT RTS comes up, gotta remember to pick it up.

>>8755424

the majority of RTS that let you build a lot of units have some kind of cap

>>8755679

Make sure to only pick out the original game and maybe regular Crusaders while avoiding everything else. They shit the bed so fucking badly past the first two games its quite unbelievable and they are still unable to come back. I honestly don't even know how the poor bastards are still holding together their studio anymore.

>>8755679

>Stronghold: Fantastic

>Stronghold Crusaders: Fantastic

>Everything else, including HD and Extreme versions of Crusaders: buggy unplayable mess of suck

>>8755801

>HD Crusaders

How unplayable are we talking here, since I just finished installing the damn thing due to nostalgia? Can't be arsed getting the original version to work on Win7 with virtualmachine.

>>8755825

I don't know, I have Windows 8, I used compatibility mode setting it to WinXP, and it worked well without a problem,even if I couldn't set a greater resolution. Meanwhile HD version, well… it worked just as well, but there were some visual stuttering issues and tears,making the whole thing way more annoying.

>>8747126

>>8745954

Ahh, the UCS scums have arrived.

>>8754877

Try UA or Titanium Wars.

It won't give you unlimited but the AI works and frankly the map will be full enough anyway.

>>8747813

>>8747764

>>8754208

The one good change Assault Squad 2 made was automating the resupply if the truck was in range of your troops.

On the off chance someone here doesn't know Men of War/Faces of War can be played up to 4 people in coop (use tunngle or hamachi). It really helps cut down on the micro and the idiotic difficulty of some of the campaign missions. Vietnam is a lot simpler with friends.

Is Star Wars Empire at War any good?

>>8756600

FOC is better

>>8756600

>>8756634

I found both boring as fuck to be honest. I can't even explain why properly, it just felt utterly mediocre and lifeless.

>>8755679

We ended up playing against each other for funsies.

AoE3 ain't great but watching an entire army of british musketeers get blown up by 40 turkish bombards is amazing. My friend conceded after that.

>>8745957

it's pretty much AGE OF EMPIRES II: STAR WARS EDITION. Pretty well done, tbh.

>>8756006

Do you have a Mega for the newest version of Titanium Wars? I can't find the latest version because of some drama on ModDB.

>begin with tiny bunch of units

>have to visit several villages and perform tasks to get units

>have to defend till reinforcements arrive

>reinforcements are here

>oh no youn need to send out a rescue party

>defend the middle from 3 fucking bases in all directions

>>8756658

Are there any other Star Wars RTS games then, aside from the AoEII clone? I'm a little burned out on AoE in all honesty.

Even some mods would be good.

>>8757075

Not really, at least in my opinion. Star Wars as a whole has been mostly shafted when it comes to the RTS genre I feel, the only interesting bit ever done for it were the space battle segments in Empire at War / Forces of Corruption since I'm a major sucker for those. I might be talking out of my ass however since I've only played the campaign and didn't really bother with skirmishes.

We need a Jedi / Sith Academy simulator.

AoEii has a huge collection of user-made scenarios/campaigns.

It's why i go back to it year after year.

>RTS

>Campaign is great

>Multiplayer is for gooks

>>8757661

>smallest difference in skill level means you'll get your ass pounded into dust

>any factions that seem utopian other than america-inspired liberal democracy turn out to be evil in the end

>>8758144

Only if you're some kind of homo who just gives up the second something doesn't go his way. In which case you will literally never git gud.

>>8758298

>What is Red Alert and Stronghold

>>8758318

The Stronghold campaign was a masterpiece. Crusader was nice, but it didn't even have a real campaign.

>>8758298

>Playing RTS for the multiplayer

buttlicker detected

>>8745957

you can find it on google pretty easy, go for the GoG edition. The game is on steam if you want to look at it and don't want to look for gameplay vids.

>>8758445

What game was on Humble Bundle for 1 dollar just couple weeks back.

>start mission with only one ally on the other side of the map

>ally is instantly killed by a huge army

>defeating that army is the mission

>>8757131

Theres a star wars mod for sins of a solar empire: rebellion but I've never played it so I don't know how good it is. SOASE:R is a pretty good RT4X game to start with though.

>>8755947

Hey EDfag, destroy that building over there with your energy weapon.

Oh wait, I forgot - you can't.

>>8758298

>not beating campaign on highest difficulty to learn the game

have fun with your bland AI random maps and babby MP assraping m9

>>8758298

>got getting gud in the campaign of Earth 2150: Lost Souls

>>8758588

there's massive fucking SoaSE mods for every recognizable space setting around

Star Wars, Halo, Mass Effect, think I saw Star Trek, EVE

though I don't know the state of completeness for any of them but EVE's (think it was 2/4 empires done and positive user reception)

>>8758970

>escorting retarded AI: RTS edition

no thanks

>>8758970

>Hero character's are NOT controlled by you and will often times run off to fight on their own. You gotta wall them in.

>>8759194

>Hero jumps over your wall

>>8758598

no problem, I just cap some of your factory instead :^)

>>8758970

Makes me wish more games did heroes for campaigns the way Age of Mythology did for theirs.

>Heroes can't die only be knocked out

>You have to go get their body back with a unit in order to revive them

>They revive on the spot and slowly heal

That way Heroes can be used more freely and show off their cool abilities but not be invincible and you still have to take care of your other units.

come on now

>>8758970

>Ok, why do this?

Because not everyone is a faggot like you who doesn't use the hero characters.

>Hero character's are NOT controlled by you and will often times run off to fight on their own. You gotta cover them.

>that would be neat

NO IT WOULD NOT THAT IS LITERALLY THE WORST THING YOU COULD POSSIBLY DO JESUS CHRIST IS THIS A JOKE

>>8758970

Because often the hero will be a very strong unit that easily fight multiple units of the other side, not to mention the many powers they often have that give you an advantage. And sometimes, the map is balanced around you using your hero or it feels way too difficult for what it is.

You'll also often have ways to heal your hero, either with natural regeneration, a building or unit that does it as well. And considering that heroes often have a large health pool, if you can't keep it alive, you suck at basic micro. Even ASSFAGGOTS players would laugh at you.

>>8758970

>being so big a babby you'd rather have NPC escort missions than a badass unique unit you must be careful with

I mean, maybe if the hero unit could be easily instagibbed or whatnot, but that is never the case. Those heroes are usually OP, actually, because 9 times out of 10 they regen HP so you can lure manageable groups of enemies with them solo and cheese the whole mission.

>>8761456

SC1 had plenty of hero units that wouldn't heal and were only slightly stronger than the others.

Perhaps the current state of RTS games that play like MOBAs have spoiled everybody.

>>8745894

Anno exists, you know. Anno 1404 is objectively the best of the series (stay away from Uplay) although I prefer 1701 because more than 3 players in one game.

>>8746641

>>8746597

>>8746545

>what is tauniverse.com

>what is gameranger

>>8747424

Praetorians is brilliant. AFAIK it's even on GOG so you can get an ez-pz torrent of it.

>>8754279

As sucky as Dawn of War 2 is, it does this with the vehicles.

>>8754279

As sucky as Dawn of War 2 is, it does this with the vehicles.

>>8761628

Starcraft games are complete shit, so I don't give a fuck about it. AoE2 had hero units that didn't have ridiculous amounts of health and would end the mission if they died, yet I still used them.

>>8758673

>implying running through the slow-ass tutorial "campaign" without access to most of the units for hours helps you git gud

just man up and lose a couple matches against a human, god damn.

>>8746105

>Also Total Annihilation

canonically arm are the underdogs. therefore they do everything better

>>8747562

>Westwood, then later Petroglyph really didn't know how to do infantry right at all did they?

red alert 2 and 3 have outright deadly infantry. well, conscripts are almost never worth the price sadly.

i dont recall being too thrilled with them in the first one but i dont remember them being bad either.

>>8761628

Terran units can be repaired either by SCVs if they are vehicles or Medics if they are normal infantry. Ever noticed how Jim Raynor shows up in that bike only while you dont have Medics?

Zerg units naturally regenerate.

Protoss units regen shield, not life.

>>8761699

I know, I love Anno because of that, but it's a shame that it sucks militaristically. Commanding an army in the first one was bonkers and overly simplistic while some of the later series have you pilot boats and that's it. I love the building part and having my own civilization and cities and people that are actually people, not just drones. But I also like battles and deep military tactics.

It's the people and the cities that give context to the fights and it's the battles that make the cities and the people worth it, know what I'm saying?

I'm getting Anno 1404 though. Tried almost all of them but that one.

>>8762848

The first missions have locked units for a reason. They teach you how to use the basic ones first and give you an understanding of the mechanics that a specific game has.

They later introduce units one by one with a scenario clearly tailored to explain it's strengths and possible uses.

But later on, you still have plenty of missions where you have all the units and you can do whatever you want. And in fact, the game expects that you have learned your lesson at that time and will throw chalenges at you that can only be beaten if you clearly understand how to use every single unit.

Take for example Rise of Nations: Rise of Nations campaign. Every faction starts with a couple simple missions to explain to you how to capture buildings, how atrition works. Later they give you specific missions to show how aerial units work and how siege can make a difference. But all of them culminate in a final showdown for a few maps where you can use all your units and buildings to win.

>>8762848

>he gets mad and quits instead of burning through a couple of tutorial missions

Even in campaigns where shit's locked for 90% of it, like Warcraft 3, the difficulty is there and you're forced to push the pieces you have to work with to finish. It's good for putting a focus on a handful of units and letting you get a feel for their exact uses and counters.

Gauntlet missions with limited units to overcome a superior enemy are good for that too, requiring you to micro and learn which engagements to take.

Campaigns are great for babby players who aren't raging autists.

>>8758298

agreed. skirmish or bust

>>8758673

>bothering to beat a campaign on highest difficulty

It's like you enjoy autism. Doing that is literally Starcraft-tier thinking, because you would have to memorize exactly what to do and just practice until you do that one proper strategy. That's fucking awful and if that successfully carries over into multiplayer, then it's a terrible game. Campaigns are always boring as fuck.

>>8768717

>It's like you enjoy autism.

Did the kike add new filters or did I actually type this? I might be going crazy.

>>8758298

filthy gook detected

>>8768734

What did you put instead of autism there ?

>>8768824

I don't know, I probably typed it. I can't remember what I typed at all and I'm sure I'm just going crazy because I forgot what I had typed within 5 seconds.

>>8768717

Except that most of the "proper strategy" you have to use is basically "use air units against ground troops that can't shoot back" or "put your siege units in this hill so they can shoot down without melee units coming into range".

All the strategy that's specific to a map in every campaign is always to teach you how to use a particular unit or building. Everything else like resources management carries over very well to skirmish.

Take for example one of the first missions in Starcraft where you have to defend as Marine against Zergs for a certain amount of time. It's the first time they give you bunkers and show you how usefull they are for defense. If you don't put Marines inside of them, you lose the map. Then there's elevation that you can use to put Marines shooting against aproaching units, all to show you how high-ground changes the battle.

The more advanced strategy there is building more rocket turrets on top of those elevations to catch mutalisks before they can reach the bunkers but still safe from zerglings because they need to come in the back first. The entire map is to show you how to defend your base using bunkers, turrets and elevation.

You also have some maps where you are given limited units and most make the most you can with them. Usually they are heavily scripted and don't have that many enemy troops anyway. Those are mostly to tell part of the story but also for you to practice your micro with those units without having to worry about a base.

>>8768975

Cossacks ?

Start off with a decent sized base and army.

Suddenly…

Nuclear launch detected-de-de-de-de-detected.

>>8768107

Okay, that's cool, but my second Rise of Nations game I beat my veteran player friend because I'm good at videogames. I don't need to have hours of my time wasted with limited access to the units for me to figure out the mechanics of a RTS.

To this day I believe supreme commander and cossacks are still the best RTS games

>>8769023

I'm calling bullshit on it being your second game or in your friend being a "veteran".

RoN is not that different from AoE or your standard RTS but it has enough differences that a complete newbie shouldn't even be a match to a veteran. The way you expand is completely different, the way you research as well. Towns work in a very unique way as well as the economy with it's limits. Supply and atrittion aren't common in RTS either. Even the Market is such a massively important feature that it can turn games around if you actually use it.

There's no way you could have learned all of that in 2 games and if your friend didn't took advantage of all of that, he is hardly a veteran.

>build units until you have more than the AI

>Buy it, use it, break it, zerg it

>this works until the end of the campaign

>>8745472

To add to this:

>Human's are all-rounders.

>>8761628

>Perhaps the current state of RTS games that play like MOBAs have spoiled everybody.

i dont think it was ever anything but annoying.

>>8770586

>humans have strong religious overtones

>Normal: Dumb AI.

>Hard: Slightly less dumb AI.

>Very Hard: Slightly less dumb AI with a shitload more resources.

>>8747299

Starcraft human campaign, third mission or so.

>>8747299

if you wanna shoot thousands of bug aliens try out infested planet.

>>8745688

>there are half a dozen different resources

>some become obsolete as you progress through the tech tree

>Mission where you control a small squad with a hero unit

>>8768975

Battle realms has a focus on micro managing formations.

>>8758970

I remember using Kerrigan quite a bit in the Brood War campaign her stealth and very high damage helped also Zeratul and the hero battlecruiser when you get to use them. Legacy of the Void does the AI hero unti thing a bit, in the form of a calldown ability that you can use to summon a AI hero, and missions where you have to defend AI controlled allies.

>>8747299

Starcraft 1 and 2 and Warcraft 3 have heaps of those, blizzard loves that shiz.

>>8759383

Oh, I certainly am so scared if your ion cannons that need half an hour to reload between each shot.

Eat plasma, sucker.

>>8747562

Infantry in games like Tiberian Sun are useful the entire game. Yes, that means the light infantry from the beginning.

Since you could only build from one barracks/war factory/helipad at a time, you had a good reason to burn resources into infantry to prevent your tiberium from capping out, and sitting on filled refineries/silos was absolutely horrible. If someone came at you with 4-5 Titans, you could get a crowd of a few dozen light infantry and easily kill them all, especially considering that the Titans could only kill infantry by walking on them, since their guns did jack shit against small targets.

For reasons like that, you always needed a bit of light infantry mixed in with your force. Yeah, you had Wolverines and other anti-infantry weapons, but a light infantry and Titan force would always win against a Wolverine and Titan force, because time spent building Wolverines meant you had less Titans, and the player with more Titans and infantry support would just ace your entire army with no struggle at all, since he'd kill nothing by trying to focus fire down your Titans, and would barely kill a few infantry by trying to run them down. There's also the possibility that he does some stupid ass shit like shooting at your infantry with his Titans, meaning your Titans wouldn't even take damage, nor would you lose any infantry.

Disc infantry were great at popping large infantry bubbles and for destroying buildings, and rocket infantry were great to support light infantry in fighting vehicles and buildings. Neither of those are really "specialist" infantry, and they're never successful without being supported by light infantry, otherwise a better player who actually built light infantry would tear them apart.

Anyone who plays the early Command and Conquer games without building light infantry are objectively bad, because the earliest infantry are useful throughout the entire game. Westwood is one of the only companies that did infantry right, because this carries over to the Red Alert series and Tiberian Dawn.

It sounds to me like you played with a weak economy, meaning you built a few vehicles and never had excess resources for infantry, or you built and used infantry in extremely small groups, or fielded infantry-only armies without any support. Try building 3-4 refineries, and build at least 3 harvesters per refinery. Unless you're playing Red Alert, because ore trucks unload immediately so you don't need a large amount of ore refineries to process all of the material, so you can usually get away with 1 or 2. Either way, light infantry/riflemen are really important.

>>8776448

i felt like disk tossers far outclassed light infantry in every role and actually made good use of their veterancy unlike standard infantry.

>>8776448

Red Alert 3 doesn't exactly get much love in the community, but I like how it handled infantry - even the dirt-cheap conscripts had their role when it came to clearing out buildings.

>>8769010

>not just moving your base out of the way

>>8776496

i feel like for how garbage their guns were, molotovs could have been a bit better vs buildings. im sure being able to attack over walls was handy to someone in a game somewhere. but i guess they were meant to be used with combat engineers and their bunkers.

that could get a bit expensive but im sure being able to repair them could be useful, but did the bunkers give the range bonus that garrisons typically get? another problem would be getting the fragile engineer into a good and annoying position since a stray leaf can kill him, and youre probably not going to have that many replacements around with how expensive they are.

>>8776465

Disc throwers explode when they die and do damage to everything around them, so if you have a large amount of disc throwers, losing one or two units can cause entire masses of your own infantry to die before the fight even begins. They also consistently deal friendly fire to your own units in battles larger than just a few infantry. This is especially so in fights near hills or anything else, since they can easily throw discs in their own faces.

Disc throwers are great infantry to support light infantry, it's just more danger to you than the enemy if you have more than a handful, and they cost almost double the amount of resources compared to light infantry, meaning your economy would have to be even stronger to have an infantry force and not cut your Titan/Orca count, and in terms of protecting your more expensive units, you're better off just building 5 light infantry instead of 3 disc throwers.

Other than that, they are good infantry in small numbers, and absolutely required in early game rushes.

>>8776534

Imho the engi's bunker was very affordable at 500 bucks. Doubly so as you could also garrison it with flak troopers, who could kill their fair share of tanks and aircraft from inside of it.

>>8777612

video games becoming a market rather than a hobby killed rts

I find it hard to go back to a traditional RTS after playing Total War for years. I love blowing buildings but the stress of clicking fast isn't worth it.

While seeing a group of units dwindle to nothing is great I like the realistic feel of watching mass volley fire rip into lines.

>>8768975

>>8768975

Is there any point of formations unless the game has morale? It juat turns into a mass of units slapping each other anyways. I remember AoEII had only the essentials that fit with the game style.