/v/ - Video Games

I think it's implied that Venom was hallucinating certain portions of the events that occurred. Perhaps this is the result of the hypnotherapy he went through in order to become Big Boss, or perhaps it was Psycho Mantis messing with his mind. Who can say, really. Point is, you can't really take the intro sequence at face value.

>>8779071

>I think it's implied that Venom was hallucinating certain portions of the events that occurred.

Doesn't that kind of imply that Venom Snake might be the real Big Boss though?

The fact that the game takes place during 1984 and how the mission is blatantly called TRUTH is a little too perfect to be an oversight if you ask me.

Then again, that's probably the point, it's impossible to know what Venom hallucinates and what's real, hence the whole NO FACTS, ONLY INTERPRETATIONS qoute.

I think Herr Doktor and B-flat lost consciousness after the ambulance crash and woke up miraculously just when Pistol Bobcat arrived to pick them up

>>8779191

>Doesn't that imply that Venom might be the real Big Boss?

Sure. As far as I'm concerned, the point of throwing this wrench into the game was to make people question everything they think they know about Naked Snake. This sounds really cheesy and cliche, but it's almost as if Kojima wanted to express that Snake had become an entirely different person as a result of all the trauma he's suffered over the years, and this has made him irreparably mentally unhinged. For all we know, Medic was meant to take Big Boss' place as a tyrant who went on to form Outer Heaven from MG1, almost as a calculated effort made by Zero and Kaz, so that the real Snake could sit around on his gigantic Mother Base out in the middle of nowhere and continue living the dream/delusion. Maybe they wanted to distract him, maybe he was too much of a threat to the Patriots' meddling, and they needed a way to keep him off to the wayside, while simultaneously smearing his legacy, so they could focus on the fruits of Les Enfants Terribles, Cipher's plot for world domination via proxy wars, and the modern industrialization of manufactured war.

>>8779256

>Herr Doktor

Venom survived the MG buttfcuk and operate himself into a perv german scientist?

Works for me!

It's possible that Revolver Bobcat could've gone to pick up the real Big Boss and hid him somewhere, rescued Venom and taken him to the tanker, and then gone back for Big Boss to give him the motorcycle.

Or, you know, Venom is just an unreliable narrator as the game implies several times.

>>8779300

If Venom is an unreliable narrator, I want to know what really happens.

>>8779382

>>8779385

That just raises even more questions for me.

>Venom Snake is proof that anyone can be turned into Big Boss through basic hypnotherapy

>The US government decided to implant Big Boss's "soldier genes" into the next-gen special forces anyway, leading to horrible genetic disorders

>>8779414

>Venom dies but somehow still saves Kyle and a bunch of other people before Outer Heaven explodes

>>8779023

The scene with Venom in the bathroom is much much later. People have said it is around the time that Solid is infiltrating Outer Heaven. Like right before Solid comes into the boss room, Venom is in there listening to the tape.

>>8779414

US government never found out the outcome of the "Venom project". Zero was brain dead at the end of the game and as we know Sigint just don1t give a fuck and can't even secure the AIs properly. Meanwhile Dr. Clark became a psychopath and made insane experiments on child soldiers and disabled people.

Basically, there's three possibilities that I think are equally possible:

scenario one

Venom is Medic, and is tasked with posing as Big Boss. His Mother Base and the Diamond Dogs go on to become the Outer Heaven that we see from MG1, while the real Big Boss is off doing who knows what. He later shows up for the Zanzibarland Incident in MG2, and he's the Big Boss who shows up at the end of MGS4

scenario two

Venom is the real Big Boss, and he's so mentally unstable, either through a natural degradation or through some induced psychosis, that he's lost all touch with reality outside of his primary desire to make MSF great again and return to business as usual circa 1970 - 1975. He's living his dream, and continues taking private contact after private contract until his operation becomes another cog in Cipher's wheel of international manufactured war, and goes on to be Outer Heaven/Big Boss from MG1 while Medic goes on to do who knows what.

scenario three

There is no Medic, and he exists inside of Big Boss' mind. The whole thing is a lie and what we're given does not adequately answer any god damned questions, and therefore renders any explanation for Big Boss' supposed death in MG1 useless. Big Boss is psychotic in this scenario as well, but the difference is that in this case Medic isn't actually real, and the whole doppleganger thing is some delusion that was supplanted in his mind somehow.

Hell, I don't know. I think kojima didn't have enough time to make the ending he wanted, so it is deliberately left unexplained for the sake of interpretation. Either that, or kojima had no idea what the fuck he wanted to do and just decided, "fuck it, let's make shit up as we go along"

>>8779457

Sigint probably never mentioned it again because he knew it would just lead to Paramedic doing fucked up shit with hypnotism.

At this point I'm pretty sure the events of MGS2 onwards were caused by the AI based on her overrunning the others.

>>8779457

Plenty of people knew about Venom not being Big Boss, though - hell, even the grunts on Motherbase will occasionally tell you "We don't care who you really are" when you walk past.

Considering the NGSF included ex-Diamond Dog mercenaries, you would have thought at least one of them would have casually mentioned that the greatest soldier in the world was actually just "some guy who got tricked into thinking he was good at his job".

>>8779512

Okay so hypno therapy and brainwashing make super soldiers.

I guess we just got the Sears-program.

And guess who was behind it…

Dr. Clark

>>8779512

>"some guy who got tricked into thinking he was good at his job"

About this, check the Pygmalion effect.

>>8779531

Yea. Was for a "noble" reason though.

>>8779414

Wasn't the medic already some super badass soldier before he got turned into Big Boss?

>>8779191

Wasn't the whole point of it that both Venom Snake and Naked Snake are Big Boss? There's a whole monologue about this - "Big Boss" is a legend comprised of the actions of both Venom and Naked. No one man is Big Boss, but combined they both are.

>>8779544

Also, ghost babel is canon

Just an interesting detail

>The only me is me, are you sure the only you is you?

If you think about it, this quote from P.T. perfectly fits Big Boss and Venom respectively.

>>8779576

Yeah Miller says he was MSF's best guy in one of the truth missions cutscenes.

ocelot pops venom into the whaler and he's like hey get some sleep and he's like ok

then he goes get large leader his motorcycle, easy

>>8779503

Exactly.

Just image these:

>One of the AI try to design Sunny into a human computer. (maybe even put her into a cyborg body)

>When Raiden and co. saved Sunny they probably got separated during the escape. Boris (MGR say he was there) got Sunny out while the angry AI was "fuck this then i test cyborg body on this femboy

>Paramedic maybe had some fetish for weird sience so the AI let Naomi experiments unchecked for fun

>>8779612

it's a glass eye probably

Or the bugs haven't eaten his eye yet.

>>8779648

Enormous Executive must have one hell of a five a'clock shadow then, because he mangaged to grow a full beard in just a few hours.

So wait, was Big Boss a Snatcher cyborg or not?

>>8779752

Only dubs could tell…

>>8779752

Of course. Listen to the codec calls, dummy.

>>8779752

how does one clone cyborgs?

>>8779693

I think that was more for gamey reasons. Having Big Boss as an S rank soldier with max everything would take out all the challenge in the game. We know Big Boss is the best individual soldier. Medic himself would have to be really good though, and at least have genes that are conducive to muscle growth.

>>8779824

>how does one clone cyborgs?

The clones are cyborgs aswell duh.

>>8779824

The same way you clone a regular person? Why would it be otherwise?

>>8779872

>>8779873

but the clones came out of a womb. Are you going to tell me they were just nanomusheen fetuses or something?

Remember how MGS2 was a giant clusterfuck where Raiden questioned everything, then Snake shows up and just says "lol forget it, worry about the future"? It was the same deal here. Stop trying to unravel this cycle of ruses and focus on the future.

Does it matter if Venom is sane? If he is really the Medic? If he even existed and that it isn't Big Boss going psycho? All that matters is that Big Boss is moving forward with Diamond Dogs and Zanzibarland.

>>8779905

At this point, would you really be surprised if that was a thing?

>>8779905

What the fuck are you talking about? A cyborg is just a regular person with some mechanical parts. Even Raiden should have enough human chunks leftover to get a solid DNA sample from.

>>8779930

>bringing up Raiden

are you implying that if someone who had for example a screw or piece of metal for medical reasons inside their bone, that if they were cloned the clone would have metal inside their bone as well?

>>8779990

Nanomachines reconstructed it from the raw metals in his body!

>>8779969

I love that Kojima put in little shit like this, he obviously knew people would be digging.

Still, it's pretty clear he left it deliberately foggy to make room for speculation.

>>8780049

He could have put the rest of the game into the game too.

>>8779969

Perhaps there would have been more with the Medic but he changed it. It makes sense given how the Medic had a designated design in GZ, but in TPP he can become someone else entirely.

>>8780082

>He could have put the rest of the game into the game too.

Don't worry, it's coming when you've disabled all the nukes ;)

>>8779463

I prefer big boss going crazy.

>>8780285

THEN WHO WAS OUTER HEAVEN?

>>8780440

He a good boy, he dindu nuffin! He was gonna get his nukes inspected and get his life on trawcks!

Obviously the ending is not set in stone for many reasons.

But I do think Venom is just medic as it is right now given the constant hallucinations.

>>8780516

>But I do think Venom is just medic as it is right now given the constant hallucinations.

I think it's probably just Big Boss losing his marbles. By the end of the game he feels deglorified by his actions, so he literally makes his old self ride off in the sun in his head.

I mean shit the game both starts and stops with The Man Who Sold The World.

I feel like a fucking idiot for not realizing that Ishmael didn't have a beard until now.

The whole game is filled with plot points and story lines that are either missing or completly missing. If that was intentional or just Konami fuckery, we will never know.

For exemple,

>It's implied that the Mammal Pod is the Patriots A.I. in one of Strangelove's tapes, that is never brought up again, how she exactly takes over the net and does all her shit is never explained.

>Huey is implied to be under brainwash or mind control during the OKBZero mission, that's why he acts so weird during it and kills Skullface without giving Boss a chance to interrogate him. That is not explained further at all.

>Skullface's whole "The Thrid Vial is near your Heart" thing makes no sense if you killed Quiet, implying it's a Red Herring, but it's never developed

>The "Eyes On Kazuhira" line leads nowhere, Kaz remains loyal to the bitter end, only leaving at an unspecified time post-game. The line is never explained.

>It´s also never explained how Kaz managed to train Snake without an arm and a Leg or how Big Boss (either Venom or the Real BB) managed to return to the USA goverment and remake FOX Hound, since at the end of the game "The whole world wants you dead" still.

>The Kingdom of the Flies is still canon, and the Nuclear Disarmament Ending still references it directly (a Nuclear Leak that happens the the unused in the cutscene is referenced in the Disarmament Ending).

And a billion of other little things, like how they explicitly said that you would return to the Ground Zeroes locations in the game, but you don't. Or how the "a thing you can only do in a game" quote by Kojima also makes no sense.

>>8781101

>"said that you would return to the Ground Zeroes locations in the game"

well technically part of camp omega is used as a MGO map

>The passport Ocelot gives BB has California, USA as it's location.

>According to a map in MGS4, JD was stationed in California before being launched into space.

>Big Boss clearly states that he was awake during his time interred by the Patriots.

>Ocelot claims to hypnotize himself into forgetting who the real Big Boss is, but knows that Ishmael isn't BB throughout the game.

>Volgin was assumed to psychically know where Big Boss is, but get's sidetracked by a body double. (Even if you believe that it only happened post-Skullface takeover, Volgin still chased after Ocelot+Ishmael instead of hunting down the on-foot Big Boss, when under his own control.)

>The only two Truth Tapes that are not Gold are the two that talk about the Patriots.

>>8781101

He gave the third vial to Huey, who then caused the outbreak.

>>8779414

This is by far the weirdest part to me. I've even posted about it before.

The whole plot of MGS from MGS1 to MGS4 and even Peace Walker is that Solid/Naked/Raiden Snake shouldn't try so hard to fit in the shoes of their predecessors and just live their own lifes.

>Liquid obsesses over being a inferior copy of BB and hates Solid for it

>Genetherapy

>The whole point of MGS2 is that Raiden shouldn't try to be Snake and he is an audience insert, so we shouldn't try to be like Snake.

>The everything bad in the series happens because Zero and Snake try to fulfill the Boss's vision of the world.

>that whole in your face as fuck scene in MGS4 where Eva talks about how kids play shooter and then go to join PMC's because they want to be like their favorite game heroes, Solid and BB.

>That whole "Let it Go" sequence at the end of MGS4

>BB getting over the Boss at the end of Peace Walker

I was interested specially in the MGS4 cutscene with Eva, because according with MGS 4 canon, the legend og BB that the Patriots construct is basically what drives so many young people into joining the PMC's (PMC's that are referenced in the game), so BB's legend isn't something we should be proud in creating.

>The person who killed the Boss has a Skull Face.

>At the end of the trailer, Big Boss turns into Skull Face.

It doesn't matter who is the real Big Boss, what matters is that there is one to take on the legacy if another dies.

>>8779414

>US government

>not doing retarded things

Just look at the f35.

>>8781281

>F35

Or F22, the hangar queen. Or Stealth plane(I honestly don't remember the designation) that got shot down by serbs with a decade-old equipment. Or M16, which is self-explanatory. Or moving soldiers entirely onto premade reheated food and MREs with so much artificial stuff in them you can use your shit as a sealant afterwards.

>>8786092

Meant outerheaven is blown up. Not mother base. As well as he underestimated Solid, not himself.

>>8779470

>and continues taking private contact after private contract until his operation becomes another cog in Cipher's wheel of international manufactured war,

I think this is why Big Boss ends up stop being a mercenary and instead forms a nation, so he wouldn't have to do others dirty work in order to survive.

The only reason it all gets fucked up is because he decides to get nukes like a fucking idiot instead of telling the different nations of the Earth about the evils of cipher and forming a coalitions of nations to stand up to them.

All the Boss ever wanted was for the world to be free, for people to stop forcing their ideals on others and let everyone live their lives.

The guy in your pic is the real big boss.

The venom snake thing happened earlier that same day or some shit, I didn't played the game

>>8779470

Medic has to exist, the hospital escape is not possible with whoever the player character is by themselves, there has to be either Medic or Big Boss supporting the player. The hospital escape does happen, because Quiet's motivation is to get revenge on the player character for burning her.

And I have to think Venom is Big Boss because otherwise Kaz has no reason to turn his efforts against Big Boss.

Ocelot gets BB out of there, rides back and picks up Venom, they get on the ship. He then fucks off and meets up with BB when the sun rises.

Jesus fuck.

>>8780586

>I mean shit the game both starts and stops with The Man Who Sold The World.

What is that song about anyway?

Having two personalities? Self discovery through comparing who you are with who you were before? Reconciling your two different identities into one person?

What does "selling the world" mean?

Does it have something to do with "gaining the world but losing your soul"?

So he gave up all material things in order to get his soul(self) back?

>>8781183

Wait so Big Boss Was running Foxhound in America while Venom Snake was in charge of Outer Heaven/Zanzibar land?

>>8781225

I think Kojima was saying "look, anyone can be a 'legend' or a 'hero', there is no reason to look up to these people as if they were gods, you can become greater than them, you shouldn't worship them'

The guy in your pic is the real big boss.

The venom snake thing happened earlier that same day or some shit, I didn't played the game

>>8781101

While I do agree with you that things have been cut off:

>The Mammal Pod.

This is just implicit. If you know your Metal Gear lore, you infer that this is the start of the AIs that later fuck with the world on behalf of Zero. If you mean how she defeats the AI, then it's probably some backdoor that she leaves so that a loli hacker can take down the most complex system ever by just fucking around in MGS4. The tape is more about Strangelove embracing death, not a documentary on the AI.

>Huey does not give BB a chance to interrogate Skullface

What? Venom and Miller shoot off Skullface's limbs, and when he begs to be killed, they give him a bullet and his gun. "Do it yourself", said Miller. Then, they both walk away. They don't give a fuck about interrogating him. Huey takes the opportunity and shoots him off on his own. There are a number of things that can be said about this move, but brainwashing?

>Third strain makes no sense if you kill Quiet.

It makes less sense to get the Kikongo strain if you actively kick niggers out of your base, and it is also part of the story. Killing Quiet doesn't exactly provide an alternative story, but rather, it takes out additional content on an already butchered story.

If you want a full Kojimadrone response: "Skullface could have interpretated you got the virus when you fought Quiet."

>Eyes on Kazuhira.

No comment there, we agree.

>How does Kaz train Snake.

Kaz is called a "drill instructor", not a CQC master. All he needs to do is motivate and yell at Solid Snake. Remember that Solid is a genetically superior solider by design.

>Big Boss returns to the US.

Since they have mentioned returning to the US was intended but cut off, this might have been explained there. Alternatively: If Jack does assume a new identity, that's how he gets away with threats while Venom takes the heat.

>Kingdom is canon.

Yes, but there's nothing we can do about it.

BATTLE GEAR BUDDY NEVER EVER. IT LITERALLY IS USED FOR A FEW OUTER-OPS AND IS LEFT TO ROT IN THE HANGER FOREVER.

YOU WILL NEVER GO ON A RAMPAGE THROUGHOUT AFGHANISTAN KILLING DIRTY COMMIES.

T-THANKS KOJIMBO

>>8786180

This is the only true answer, all of you other fucks trying to say Venom is somehow the real Big Boss either didn't listen to the truth tapes or you're retarded, or both.

And before someone brings up the Ishmael face model not having a beard and an eye, maybe it's a mask like the one Kojima had and he had a glass eye. Or maybe it was just a model they made to throw you off/they didn't want to waste time putting a beard on it.

Who cares either way the point is that the real Big Boss is the real Big Boss and the point of Phantom Pain was to show that the real Big Boss used Venom and sent him to die to Solid Snake's hands at the end of the game like the government did with The Boss, making it clear that Big Boss' actual fall from grace is that he's no better than the people who made him kill his mentor and made him the way he is.

>>8781225

MGSV deals repeatedly with the topic of "phantoms", that is to say the myth around a person. From Zero's point of view, creating Venom Snake is just a diversion to Jack's enemies. But the second Venom appears on the field, he's just another soldier. Miller repeatedly tells you that no one will simply assume that you are Big Boss, you'd have to prove it through your prowess. And you do: You become the man from the base in the Caribbean, with the good, the bad and the ugly. But that is not who you are, that is who Big Boss is. And "who Big Boss is" is the image that people have of him, his phantom. What starts as a gigantic favor for your boss turns out in you becoming a legend of your own, under a different name but a legend nonetheless. At the end of the game, you get a more positive message in the style of MGS2: You, the player, are Snake, you are the legend.

I think you are focusing too much on the Snakes. The messages vary depending on the games, but the general gist is that you are the sole responsible for your future. In MGS1, the message is that your genes do not determine your path, you do. In MGS2, Raiden is not genetically related to Solid Snake but he's forced to live his meme, and the message is that he shouldn't. In MGS4, Solid has arrived to his future, so Big Boss, his father, tells him it's finally over and he can enjoy the future he has created.

The legend of Big Boss exists since Operation Snake Eater. It's not created in MGSV. In MGS3, Jack does the impossible in a top secret op. In Peace Walker, he does the impossible again, but this time the whole world is watching, specially as he takes a nuclear weapon into private hands outside of any state. In MGSV, Venom merely embraces the phantom of Big Boss.

What EVA does in MGS4 is explain that the legend of Big Boss, as magnificent as it is on its own, was heavily doctored by the Patriots into making Big Boss an American war hero, despite acting against American interests after 1964. To put it in a MGSV context, she talks about how you can distort a person's phantom, specially if you have the influence of the Patriot AI system. Do keep context in mind: In Solid Snake's time, Big Boss is seen as a rightful military leader. You only kill him in a black op, then some terrorist group demands his remains, which is shocking considering only a few people know what happened in Outer Heaven/Zanzibarland. Only a few people know Big Boss became a dick who pursued nuclear armaments, which is why EVA emphasizes that the public has received a distorted image of Big Boss.

I also think you have the wrong idea about PMCs in MGS4. The Patriots AI are presented as having omnipotence over deciding how global conflicts are resolved, and what we learn is that "at some point" they move towards self-preservation. And the self-preservation they find is the war economy. Provoke wars, supply all sides, profit, start over. The AIs find that after the Cold War, nations do not want to engage in war, but instead they take on proxy conflicts. Proxy conflicts take a heavy toll on nations, not just in money but in reputation, so they would rather hire a PMC. And what do you know, the Patriots just happen to have this cute little method where you can make god-tier soldiers out of any scrub who feels like shooting shit, creating cost-efficient PMCs for both sides.

In MGSV, Big Boss' corrupted phantom inspires raw PMCs: A bunch of no-name mercenaries take on guns for profit, fighting for "no-banner", eventually hoping to make it as big as you did in the Caribbean, getting a nuke and all that shit. In MGS4, the Patriots create the PMCs themselves.

We might never know the answers to these questions. However, the one thing we do know, is that this franchise has phenomenal music.

>>8786959

Sins of the Father was great.

And Nuclear would have been pretty good too if it were actually used in game ;~;

Okay, you're in the position Big Boss was in right after MSF Mother Base got blown up.

What do you do to ensure that you do the right thing and make the world a better place?

I think instead of a mercenary outfit he should have founded a nation and simply made money through natural resources, manufacturing, and trade.

>>8786959

A Phantom Pain, Behind The Drapery, Ride A White Horse, Sahelanthropus Dominion, Big Boss Returns, Quiet's Theme, Beautiful Mirage, Parasites, V Has Come To were all more than just okay tbh.

>>8787186

V Has Come To is an absolutely beautiful song.

>>8787186

>Big Boss Returns

Actually scratch that, this one is just a really good fan-made song. (I thought I heard it in the credits?)

MGS is my favourite series but I fucking hate it.

>>8788420

>That image

Or, you know, the devs just didn't give a shit at any point.

>>8779023

Yeah it happened. Time of day doesn't matter in video games.

WE ARE STILL IN A DREAM

SNAKE EATER

Snake is still in a coma.

>>8779990

No, because Liquid and Solid Snake do not miss an eye.

>>8788429

>Or, you know, the devs just didn't give a shit at any point.

Reading that I seriously doubt that was an oversight.

Ishmael's face, the 1984 references and that Nietzsche qoute clearly imply that stuff didn't add up intentionally. I can't think of another reason why the Paz story would be there.

>>8788420

>>8788900

Ishmael's face makes me really think it's just a mask. I'm pretty sure since Venom had plastic surgery to look like Big Boss, they made a mask for the real Big Boss to look like the Medic.

The Paz story though is also there to show that Venom isn't Big Boss, because the real Big Boss didn't have that sort of relationship with Paz, he knew she was a dirty traitor, why would he idealize her as the little school girl she pretended to be?

I also want to say that original image is stupid by saying you shouldn't trust the ending or the Truth tapes, because the Truth mission is Big Boss' retelling of the hospital escape for Venom to tell him he's a body double. And the truth tapes clearly exist outside of the story itself for the benefit of the player to get the truth, neither Venom nor Big Boss ever heard the Zero tapes.

>>8789075

>I also want to say that original image is stupid by saying you shouldn't trust the ending or the Truth tapes, because the Truth mission is Big Boss' retelling of the hospital escape for Venom to tell him he's a body double. And the truth tapes clearly exist outside of the story itself for the benefit of the player to get the truth, neither Venom nor Big Boss ever heard the Zero tapes.

Like the image states though, tapes can't be trusted because Venom Snake has tapes in his inventory that can't even exist. Not even trying to argue that Venom is Big Boss for sure, it's clearly deliberately left vague, hence the quote.

>>8789211

But the Truth tapes aren't even real to Venom. They explicitly exist outside of the story, outside of even Venom's hallucinations, for the benefit of the player. And if I can't trust those tapes why should I trust ANY of the tapes in this game?

The only tapes that don't actually exist in the story are the Paz tapes and they even explicitly say "hey man you've got PTSD, this set of tapes doesn't exist" at the end.

>>8789374

>And if I can't trust those tapes why should I trust ANY of the tapes in this game?

That's kind of the thing isn't? There is pretty much nothing in MGSV you can actually trust 100%.

Same as MGS2. Were reality starts and ends can never truly be known.

>>8789374

>And if I can't trust those tapes why should I trust ANY of the tapes in this game?

Not to sound like a broken record but that's precisely the intent isn't it?

The story is designed so that it can basically be interpreted in a bunch of ways, with no real true answer, because no matter how you look at it there are always some holes. Like when Ishmael says "I'll run interference" and he throws himself off the stairs and just disappears.

Cheeky damage control really.

>>8789795

Are you playing as the same Big Boss the entire game?

>>8789795

You're under the control of the Patriots, at the very least. The only Truth Tapes that are not gold (which the game has conditioned you to consider unimportant) are the tapes regarding the Patriots, along with the fact that they are already active.

>>8788420

Because it's shittily compiled, maybe. I had trouble even judging whether it was ironic or serioius.

>schizophrenia

>phantom pains

Do you even know what a phantom pain is?

I miss the hype train, guys. All the theories were fun and with each new trailer and bit of gameplay, the theories intensified.

Shame we never got that full scene of Snake walking down the corridor, going through his journey before becoming Skull Face.

>>8779191

Canonically they're "both" Big Boss, but Venom isn't the genetic progenitor of Solid/Liquid/Solidus nor is he Naked Snake. The idea is that Big Boss is an identity/persona and that anyone could've been him, because he's an ideal of the ultimate soldier. He's an aspirational figure that could be easily destroyed if he was just a man.

But Naked Snake's the original Big Boss, with Venom Snake taking up the mantle until he's killed, with Naked Snake then resuming the post. When people say "Big Boss" they usually mean Naked Snake rather than Venom.

A few of the explanations i'v read so far don't seem to take into account the fact that skullface was in charge of a splinter faction of Cipher.

We know skullface was involved with the attack on the MSF base, what if he wasn't acting under orders from Cipher and was instead doing so of his own ambitions?

If this is true then it means Zero wouldn't be out to get BB allowing for BB to return to the US and form Foxhound.

What if Zero's Cipher (for sake of ease ZCipher is zeros, SCipher is skullfaces) was aware of the fake snake and planed to use him to take out ZCipher?

Considering BB's seemingly lack of knowledge of the plan in The Truth, it could be guessed that the idea for the double was Ocelots.

Ocelot pitches the double idea to ZCipher in order to bring SCipher out into the open or better yet, destroy SCipher.

Ocelot then pitches the plan to BB who then decides to use it to help lay the foundation for his Outerheaven group.

So ZCipher lets VS run around building an army with the hope that it will get rid of SCipher.

And it works.

And to top it off Huey (under brainwashing) cuts the lose end that is SCipher.

So what does Huey then proceed to do? He sabotages DD and VS on the behalf of ZCipher, after all, from ZCiphers perspective VS and DD have served their purpose.

But VS survives the betrayals and ends up letting Huey loose, creating at least 2 lose ends for ZCipher.

Fast forward

Kaz gets over his issues, gets prosthetic limbs and trains Solid Snake

OR

Ocelot kills Kaz, and pretends to be Kaz and trains Solid Snake under order from BB in hopes that Solid Snake will join up with BB.

Now the theme of Vengeance.

Vengeance makes you blind, blind to the truth.

Kaz couldn't tell VS wasn't BB because of both is literal blindness, but also his desire to get vengeance.

Volgan also couldn't tell the difference between VS and BB due to being blinded by vengeance.

Liquids' lust for revenge is carried with him all the way to MGS, and even beyond the grave to MGS4.

Did I miss any potholes?

>>8790862

>What if Zero's Cipher (for sake of ease ZCipher is zeros, SCipher is skullfaces) was aware of the fake snake and planed to use him to take out ZCipher?

>Screwed up in the first sentence i used the shorthand in

>>8788420

Most of the events and the time they happen in the opening sequence are unreliable. Ishmael must be Big Boss, because no one is as durable as Big Boss is, and the many times Ishmael probably should have died, he comes out nearly unscathed. From our perspective, you might even question whether or not Ishmael was real or not, but as I've stated before, the hospital escape is not possible without the support of Ishmael for the player. I was wondering how Big Boss was perceived by people in the MG universe, and I think it wouldn't be a stretch to say Ishmael's ridiculous durability, speed, and instinct are how a normal person would see Big Boss.

Another factor is when Venom is not the narrator for the story, at the very end, when Ocelot and Kaz are talking, and Ocelot tells Kaz that Venom is not Big Boss. I don't particularly see any reason why Ocelot would lie about this bit, talking about it would cause a schism between Big Boss, Kaz, and Venom that might very well break apart the ruse that Zero, Ocelot, and to some extent Big Boss had set up.

yea, big boss is skull face :o

>>8790862

Yeah, I thought what you said were pretty much the widely agreed upon ideas.

Except I'd say it's not about vengeance specifically, but more about all different types of hate.

Hate makes you weak.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sahelanthropus

Check out the date of discovery.

Any other evidence needed to prove you're in a simulation?

>>8781101

>a thing you can only do in a game

introduce the individual viewer as a character, duh.

>>8781183

>>Ocelot claims to hypnotize himself into forgetting who the real Big Boss is, but knows that Ishmael isn't BB throughout the game.

doublethink, it's mentioned by name.

>>8792935

>july 2001

What about it?

>>8793344

When does the game take place?

>>8792935

I thought Huey said that Cipher discovered it then quickly covered it up at the time and only a few people, including him because of his connections, knew about it.

>>8793473

Do you have the tape he says that on?

>>8793512

Found it. Interrogating Huey #2.

Even so, it seem weird that Cipher would cover up an excavation to monopolize genetic research, and then only use it as a name to another top secret project. It feels like an excuse.

>>8793586

But Sahelanthropus wasn't a Cipher project, it was a XOF project that Skullface got Huey to do, Huey was the one that named it.

Long story short; it's whatever you want it to be, there is no one true way to see it and it was intended to be that way.

>>8787186

Shining Lights, Even In Death is the tear jerker for me

>>8779023

Have you ever heard the concept "Kojima is a hack"?

>>8787014

>Sins of the Father was great.

No, just no. The trailer mix of that track was far superior than the game's version.

>>8793560

>"MGSV has such a deep story!"

Not really deep, more like it has some interesting ideas, but ones that were already done in MGS2, like how you don't really know who you're playing as, and you don't really know what's true and what's a hallucination.

>"MGSV has such a unique art style!"

Who the fuck has ever said this?

>>8799976

Art style? The only art style (if you can call it that) I enjoyed were the cut scenes from Peace Walker.

>>8779191

Are you asking if it's possible that they hypnotized Big Boss to believe he was a copy of Big Boss, and then hypnotized him again to believe he was Big Boss?

Of course that's possible

>>8781101

>>8786419

>Skullface's whole "The Thrid Vial is near your Heart" thing makes no sense if you killed Quiet, implying it's a Red Herring, but it's never developed

I still like to believe that he infected himself before you meet him at the helipad, and his entire, longwinded rant at you on the drive is him infecting you. Venom ends up being a carrier, but never spreads it because he's constantly smoking and never talks enough in one go to infect anyone else. I figure that would be a cute way to have Venom (who barely talks at all compared to Naked Snake) the perfect man for the mission.

>>8801735

He smokes a fake cigar with hologram smoke.

The whole scene as well as the whole of Of the OKB Zero mission is so filled with absolutly weird fluff that I can help but think it's intentional, if there was just the long stilted cutscene I could just write it off as poor writing, but there is tons of stuff.

>Huey's bizarre behavior

>The weird haze in the sky

>the bizarre design of some parts of the level, like the big elevator that goes down into nothing

>Kaz telling you to just follow Skullface, even changing his tone on a dime

>Skullface not just killing you

>You not just shooting Skullface

It feels like there should have been something there, some call back, a flashback, a replay, anything.

I assume the actual strain carrier is Kaz, if their is a english strain at all. Mostly due to his eye thing that basically goes nowhere.