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File: 1424053324484.jpg (467.45 KB, 1557x1159, 1557:1159, iStock_000035511444Large-2.jpg)

1c9024 No.2491

Hello all,

I came across an article earlier that really has me concerned about using e-liquid. Apparently a chemical "diacetyl" is used commonly as a buttery artifical flavor in popcorn and coffee and all kinds of shit. Its also in e-liquid. Well turns out inhaling the stuff is super bad for you, this guy who worked as a coffee roaster was exposed to it and inhaled it and now at the age of 40 he has the lungs of a 70 year old, can barely get around and so forth. And we're supposedly inhaling these chemicals directly! Anyone know for sure what brands may contain this shit?

742eb5 No.2492

File: 1424055642794.gif (362.59 KB, 240x320, 3:4, 1421454200935.gif)

http://rocketfuelvapes.com/vaping-what-is-diacetyl/

>Since eliquids primarily get their taste from food flavorings, many eliquid flavors are at risk of containing diacetyl. Although the risks are much lower for vapers inhaling diacetyl-containing eliquids than for workers in manufacturing settings handling diacetyl, it is important to understand the potential consequences of extended diacetyl inhalation.

fe6bc3 No.2504

It's a flavor, man.

You can taste diacetyl style compounds: they add a buttery/creamy/custardy texture. Vape pure PG/VG and you can see what the texture of pure vapor is like. Avoid juices that don't have this texture, and you won't ever inhale enough diacetyl to worry.

3dc767 No.2539

This is why it bugs the shit out of me when people treat "Flavorings" as a chemical rather than an ingredient when listing off the components of E-Juice or advocating their safety. Flavorings encompass a VERY LARGE spectrum of chemicals which, while GRAS for consumption by the USDA, have had very little (or no) testing for safety when inhaled. The route of administration can drastically change how a chemical interacts with your body.

Most (not all, but most) E-Juice manufacturers no longer use Diacetyl in their products. However, this doesn't necessarily make them safe, as the close flavor analog 2,3-pentanedione has also been demonstrated to cause similar lung damage.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22894831
>To investigate the hypothesis that another α-diketone flavoring, 2,3-pentanedione, would cause airway damage, rats that inhaled air, 2,3-pentanedione (112, 241, 318, or 354 ppm), or diacetyl (240 ppm) for 6 hours were sacrificed the following day. Rats inhaling 2,3-pentanedione developed necrotizing rhinitis, tracheitis, and bronchitis comparable to diacetyl-induced injury. To investigate delayed toxicity, additional rats inhaled 318 (range, 317.9-318.9) ppm 2,3-pentanedione for 6 hours and were sacrificed 0 to 2, 12 to 14, or 18 to 20 hours after exposure. Respiratory epithelial injury in the upper nose involved both apoptosis and necrosis, which progressed through 12 to 14 hours after exposure.

And how many E-Juice manufacturers simply replaced Diacetyl with 2,3-pentanedione and called it a day? I don't know, because it's not listed on the fucking ingredients label.

This is part of the risk involved with vaping, and even if it's not good for business or it's a setback to the vaping movement, people should be made aware so that they can make their own risk assessments. Even knowing these risks, I still vape, because what I KNOW is in cigarettes scares me a hell of a lot more than what I don't know is in E-Juice.

A few asides -
1. Both Diacetyl and 2,3-pentanedione are "All Natural" flavorings. Calling something "natural" tells you fuck-all about how safe it is to put in your body.

2. Just because your lungs are improving the further you distance yourself from cigarettes, doesn't mean you can't also doing permanent damage that may manifest 5, 10, or 30 years down the line.

3. The levels of exposure you're going to get by vaping is probably pretty low. I don't have any measurements, but assuming it is low enough to not cause any acute toxicity - that doesn't mean you can't do serious damage with long-term chronic exposure. The vast majority of people who eat microwave popcorn have had no noticeable signs of lung damage or obstruction consistent with bronchiolitis obliterans. IIRC, it has effected a few consumers - notably those who REALLY enjoy the smell of microwave popcorn and consume it often - and will stick their nose in the bag often to get a big wiff each time.

Also, here's a .pdf the CDC put out back in 2004 regarding the potential dangers of inhaling food flavorings. It mostly deals with the cases involving Diacetyl, but it also has a listing of other potentially hazardous flavorings and their recommended PEL (Permissible Exposure Limits).

Those PELs, btw, are more or less preliminary rough-guesses and are way out of date.

NIOSH Alert: Preventing Lung Disease in Workers
Who Use or Make Flavorings.
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/2004-110/pdfs/2004-110.pdf

e3ccab No.3531

bump


e3ccab No.3543

so health thread?

is anyone else concerned about heavy metal poisoning from vaping?


ce4897 No.3550

>>3543

SOme info on heavy metal poisoning form vaping:

https://archive.is/Qyrjh

Tl;dr: You don't need to worry (according to this guy)

That said, some juices from less reputable sources could probably be dangerous. Custom coils might have the potential to have adverse health effects.

>so health thread?

An article about some dangerous chemicals:

https://archive.is/EtH2W

>Of the 13 flavours tested in the research, five (including Hot Cinnamon Candies, Banana Pudding and Menthol Tobacco) changed cell viability, cell proliferation, and calcium signalling (calcium homeostasis is also affected by tobacco exposure) and were shown to be toxic in higher doses.

Article about a study on flavoring chemicals:

https://archive.is/rmjLU


1a9bdb No.3671

BUMP, this is actually interesting. I see lots of flavors out there and absolutely ZERO information on this whatsoever. Its scary as shit, I like vaping but I dont wanna risk my health.


ce4897 No.3672

File: 1449623976201.jpg (77.67 KB, 500x281, 500:281, Should I panic now.jpg)

E-cigarette flavorings linked with lung disease

https://archive.is/OLv9p

December 8, 2015, 5:21 PM

>Cotton candy, cupcakes, and tutti frutti conjure carefree days as a kid, but a new study shows chemical flavorings by such yummy names are used to lace e-cigarettes and can cause severe lung disease.

>Researchers at Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health tested 51 types of flavored e-cigarettes and refill liquids that they considered appealing to young users.

>They looked for the chemicals diacetyl, acetoin, and 2,3-pentanedione, which have been linked to serious respiratory problems in workers. Diacetycl has been linked to a serious condition called "popcorn lung" which affected workers who inhaled artificial butter fumes at microwave popcorn factories.

>The scientists tested for the chemicals by inserting an e-cigarette into a sealed chamber attached to a lab-built device that drew air through the e-cigarette for eight seconds at a time and then "rested" for 15 or 30 seconds between each draw. Then they analyzed the air streams and found that at least one of the three chemicals was detected in 47 of 51 flavors tested.

>"One of three flavoring chemicals was found in 92 percent of the e-cigarettes we sampled and these chemicals are of interest because of what we know about the associations of inhaling these chemicals and severe, irreversible lung disease that occurred in popcorn workers over a decade ago," lead study author Joseph Allen said.

>Diacetyl was found in more than 75 percent of flavored electronic cigarettes and refill liquids that were analyzed by the researchers. What's more, they found that levels of diacetyl were higher than the laboratory limit of detection in 39 of the flavors tested.

>Acetoin showed up in 46 e-cigarette and liquid flavors; and 2,3-pentanedione was detected in 23 of the flavors.

>There are more than 7,000 varieties of flavored e-cigarettes and e-juices, nicotine-containing liquid used in refillable devices, said Allen, an assistant professor in the Department of Environmental Health. The flavors analyzed by the scientists that came up positive for these chemicals include: Cotton Candy, Tutti Frutti, Cupcake, Fruit Squirts, Waikiki Watermelon, Double Apple Hookah, Blue Water Punch, Oatmeal Cookie and Alien Blood.

>The study is published in the journal Environmental Health Perspectives.

>The impact of e-cigarettes on health is still not totally clear, but Allen said the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) has warned workers for years about the risks of diacetyl. Inhaling the chemical is associated with "popcorn lung," officially known as bronchiolitis obliterans, a respiratory condition that causes damage and inflammation to the airways and can be fatal.

What do?


3ed086 No.3677

>>3672

Make your own juice clearly


b5c5c5 No.3684

File: 1450305960374.png (757.15 KB, 706x608, 353:304, SCARED.png)

This thread really got me.

Should I quit vaping completly until more research is done?


89a836 No.3700

>>3672

Well shit. Guess it's time to start making my own juice.


17d33c No.3702

>>3684

just avoid those chemicals. Make your own juice if need be.


e3ccab No.3703

companies will now be making sure that shit isn't in their juices now that there is scientific evidence against them. they don't want to go out of business.


1a6ed1 No.3719

>>2491

Diacetyl is part of some food flavorings. Not a single e-juice manufacturer makes a proper ingredient list on the label. So you can't know for sure if the liquid doesn't contain diacetyl.


1a6ed1 No.3720

>>2491

Diacetyl is part of some food flavorings. Not a single e-juice manufacturer makes a proper ingredient list on the label. So you can't know for sure if the liquid doesn't contain diacetyl.


1a6ed1 No.3721

>>3677

>>3700

Not good enough. The flavorings you'll use can contain diacetyl unless you just use PG,VG and Nicotine without any flavor.


e9b44f No.3725

If you guys would do some research, you would know that CIGARETTES ALSO CONTAIN DIACETYL in a much higher concentration than any of those liquids. And now you should look up how many people got bronchiolitis obliterans (thats the name of the disease caused by acetyl) by smoking cigarettes. Right, noone. Stop believing the fucking tobacco industry.


9be084 No.3726

>>3725

This. There's about 10-100 times more diacetyl in cigarette smoke than in ejuice.

I'll go through the trouble of finding diacetyl free ejuice online but if I happen to walk past a good smelling ejuice in my local B&M a little diacetyl isn't going to deter me.

Only big pharma and big tobacco is blowing this out of proportion to force the FDA to crack down on vaping.


a13ebd No.3738

>>3719

>Diacetyl is part of some food flavorings. Not a single e-juice manufacturer makes a proper ingredient list on the label. So you can't know for sure if the liquid doesn't contain diacetyl.

To make matters worse, most E-Juice manufacturer buy their flavorings pre-made from food grade flavoring manufacturers. Most of those of those manufacturers aren't used to people inhaling their products, and don't really have the infrastructure to keep track of what's being inhaled vs. what's being eaten. Some of them just don't care, as there's no structure for accountability either - and it's not like juice manufacturers can really pay to have their orders tested.

There's been a few instances I've heard of, of juice makers buying what they thought was specifically diactyl-free flavorings, only to find out later that they were just sent a standard flavoring.

>>3725

Realizing of course that the thousands of other chemical compounds and thick tar in tobacco smoke might actually provide smokers with a protective mechanism by which Diacetyl wouldn't affect them as heavily as a vaper would who isn't exposed to those chemicals - even though they're getting a smaller dose of the chemical in a more isolated environment.


ce4897 No.3758

>>3703

Does anyone know of any online vendors that do this and have the juices tested by a third party?


ce4897 No.3795

File: 1456155655942.jpg (700.99 KB, 1400x600, 7:3, why didn't you test it.jpg)

Plebbit post I found:

>vaporshark sent every e-liquid that they carry and had them tested for diacetyl and acetyl propionyl. Some of the results came back EXTREMELY high. Some liquids tested positive from companies who have been saying their liquid was free of DA and AP. All test results are now on their website.

http://archive.is/hCsUS

Their website: www.vaporshark.com

Has anyone ordered from them before?


ce4897 No.3808

>>3795

Update:

I ordered from both vaporshark.com and virginvapor.com

Vaporshark shipped next day, and VirginVapor shipped a week after I placed an order (I'd be interested to compare a variety of vendors' shipping times, but I digress)

The VirginVapor package reeked of acetone. I haven't had a chance to steep the juices, so I can't comment on those yet.




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