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/veganism/ - Go Vegan

What is the difference between animals and humans that justifies killing one for food when we can just eat plants, but not the other?


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File: 1fe3c00cab1fadb⋯.jpg (205.51 KB, 1000x1250, 4:5, Grass_Dog.jpg)


Daily reminder that you're either a vegan, or you support the internment and slaughter of at least some subset of humans as well as animals.

What's the difference between humans and animals that makes it acceptable to slaughter one for food when we could eat plants, but not the other?

>They aren't human

This implies you would find these things acceptable:

Advanced aliens farming humans

Humans farming aliens

Eating cows/chickens/pigs who's consciousness has been swapped with a humans

>They aren't intelligent

This implies you would find interning severely mentally disabled people (who are less aware than cows/chickens/pigs etc) and breeding them into slaughter acceptable.

>It's tradition, and convenient

Owning slaves, raping children, sacrificing innocents and more have all been cultural tradition that wasn't easily outgrown. Are things of this sort also acceptable, Anon?

>I like the way they taste

If I find something tasty, that makes it acceptable for me to consume it? What if I find newborns tasty?

>We evolved to eat animals

1. Things like rape also have evolutionary value. Is this acceptable behavior for moral agents such as humans, Anon?

2. Carnivores and most omnivores evolved small intestines 3 to 6 times the length of their trunk. They also have a high level of acidity in their gut. These are tools designed for rapid elimination of food that rots quickly (animal flesh and byproducts). Humans, as well as other herbivores small intestines are 10 to 12 times the length of their body, and have low levels of acidity.

3. Look at all the herbivores that have canine teeth.

>We must eat meat for our health

For every health claim you make, I'll rebut it aPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

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I can't seem to find a consistent set of moral values that supports veganism, and every time I've tried to get vegans to explain they either delete my post (reddit) or link to a canned response on some shitty vegan propaganda site that doesn't address the question. Is there anyone here that can actually answer questions about vegan morality?

I eat meat. But I am responsible for fewer animals deaths than 99%+ of vegans. All my meat comes from my property, all their food comes from my property. A year of my life results in the death of one lamb, one pig, and a few chickens and rabbits. A typical vegan's life results in the deaths of hundreds of rodents and birds every year. Why are vegans killing so many more animals than me, yet claiming I am immoral because I kill animals? Is there some sort of quantitative value of animals? Like a mouse is only 1/10th of a rabbit in vegan morality? How many mice can you kill before you are as bad as someone killing one rabbit? What about rats, how much are they worth?

What about insects? Those are animals too, do they not count? If killing insects is fine, then is eating crickets vegan? If killing insects is not fine, then why are vegans silent on the millions of insects deliberately poisoned to grow crops? Pasture isn't sprayed with insecticides, so if insects count then grass fed beef kills fewer animals than your soychemical "burger". So is grass fed beef vegan?



There are many reasons to go vegan, and many moral systems that lead people to it. In many ways it is still a movement searching for a meaning, although it has a simple praxis. There is religious veganism of all kinds, citizenship paradigms, the abolishment paradigm, wild life management paradigm, and so on. All reasons to go vegan, all different approaches to the same praxis. So in honesty, you will find us with different aims answering the same question, although generally similar and coming down to a single goal in mind, however we got there: to reduce harm to the limit that it can be done to sentient beings, and the emancipation of domesticated animals, while maintaining the human society.

Obviously there is a limit to harm that can be reduced, we will always farm, farms are kept up but low-level violence to the environment to prevent it from returning to its natural state. We will get past out of our homes, no one will tolerate bedbugs, etc. Hence, the end of veganism as I see it, though others may disagree with me, is feeding humanity from the smallest portion of earth that is possible, and having the rest basically be wildlife conserves. That's the limit. Things can be done to reduce fat and roach populations in cities so not as many are killed, things can be done similarly for farming, but some will always be killed, and that's what it is. Harm is reduced to sentient beings.

Animal agriculture on a small scale as.you are doing is not the final solution, for a few reasons:

1) it is factually wrong that farming kills as many mammals as you think, what actually happens is that as the field is cut, they move from the machines, are killed by predators more, and then adapt to not be killed by them. Many studies have been done in this: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/000632079390060E https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0167880904002944 Post too long. Click here to view the full text.



>it is factually wrong that farming kills as many mammals as you think

No it isn't.

>Many studies have been done in this:

Then why did you post irrelevant ones instead of them? Radio collar studies have repeatedly confirmed rodents are directly killed by harvesting equipment and tillage equipment. Your studies didn't even look at this, they looked at behavioral changes. But that is just the minor death toll. All commercial grain farming, drying, storage and shipping is reliant on deliberately exterminating rodents, most commonly using anti-coagulant rodenticides, but occasionally lethal traps instead. In order for you to get your soychemical "burger", mice, voles, rats and other small mammals are poisoned so they can't eat the soy first. Plus some unknown number of predatory animals die from the poison after eating poisoned mice. And their deaths are slow and painful by organ failure.

>any animal farming done on the earth as you are doing will cause more of the deaths of insects/field rkdents , etc, than if there were not.

This is exactly what I mean. You ignore what we're talking about and repeat nonsense vegan canned responses. My "animal farming" does not cause the death of ANY insects or rodents. You can't go lower than zero.

>Your one example doesn't fix the global situation

That's because not enough people do it. Including vegans, who talk a lot about caring, and yet never actually do what anything, and actively fight against reducing harm. Why aren't you reducing your harm to the level I have? Am I a vegan? A better vegan than you even?

>The horrors we see in it are becAuse it is efficient

No it is not. Why do vegans so frequently love to repeat industry propaganda? Industrial agriculture does not give two greasy shits about efficiency or the environment. All they care about is profit. Current US farmland could feed and house nearly 2 billion people if they lived they way I do. I feed 12 people on 6 acres. All we buy in is coffee, sugar, baking soda and a few spices. Industrial agricultuPost too long. Click here to view the full text.



Don't bother, vegans do not understand the circle of life. It's all about feeling superior/enlightened.

I also love how this vegan thinks that he can live without farmers, decrying farming itself. (all of which is irrelevant to your point)

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only people without dichotomous beliefs can post here



I'm both anti-infanticide and vegan, posting


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100% anti abortion morally. On a policy level I'm undecided, leaning towards a libertarian position of it being technically legal but without the nonchalant ease of access. Not sure how to accomplish this quickly. People and kids in school need to be educated unbiasedly on these discussions and arguments.



Nice false equivalence there.



Murder isn't absolute evil anyway and you just promote another murders.

Non dichotomous bieliefs tend to be too simplistic

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Would a vegetarian be okay with eating lab-produced meat? No animal is harmed during the process.

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you can never generalize about large groups of individuals and still be accurate. you can only be wrong.

so yea, my roomate is a vegan. has NOTHING to do with morality, or how much he likes/cares about animals. its just a 'health' thing. he claims he switched many years ago to a vegan diet and simply felt better. more energy, better more consistant shitting, the works. so he stuck to it.


some vegans won't eat meat no matter how humane it might be (ie lab grown) because they simply don't like meat and animal products make them feel sluggish or bad.



Proof? And whats the alternative??




No way. Gross.


Disinfo agent shill feeding everyone false information intentionally.



You DO realize they couldn't just let all those cows/chickens/etc roam free if they closed meat production down, right? They'd likely be killed off anyways.

Also, even if they did release them into the wild they'd die of various things or be killed by other animals/etc anyways as well.

So stopping meat production would do little to save all those animals you guys/gals claims to love…in fact it's likely damn them to painful deaths and massive dieoffs.

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Just some examples of what carnivores do, but in human form. FUCK CARNIVORES!!!


Gonna cry?


That's also what vegans do, but in human form.


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This is beneath our species, even for meat eaters



Fixed rules of morality are a lie forced upon humanity to control us. We are not civil, we only pretend to be. We are the most savage beasts on this earth and we destroy predominately out of hedonism. There is nothing wrong with taking a life for food, it's the participation in the industrialized mass murder of billions of lifeforms that is the crime. The only thing wrong in that picture you criticized is that they let the dogs near the food.

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The main reason people find vegetarians and vegans to be so annoying, on a tier above and beyond other proselytizers such as (for example) Jehova's Witnesses, is that deep down they know that the vegetarians and vegans are morally correct, and they resent that.

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> 80 iq people

Being an effeminate faggot that is too pussy to eat meat despite being evolutionarily predisposed into needing it is not a sign of being smart, faggot.

That's why you vegan faggots shit all day, have vitamin deficiencies (or are addicted to food supplements) and are starving simultaneously.



I forgot about the part of the IQ test at the end where they deduct points for morality



retard alert


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Cute family


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I forgot to post this one

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Reminder for all non-vegans:


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I disagree with making it illegal, but if it were, it would be more effective than both, at least in reducing meat or eliminating it for a massive amount of the populace.


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Look, nobody's forcing you to eat veggies only, but if you don't start chowing down on some delicious black bean burgers you're going to be munching on bullets instead, capisce pal?


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I'm well aware.


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Pls no bully :c You guys look so strong, smart and sexy, we are already doomed.



>vegans making threats when not on top of the food chain by definition


save a cow, eat a vegan

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Well, I honestly think veganism will just restrict your diet and will not provide you with necessary nutrition. So instead of going full blown vegan and avoiding anything animal related, just avoid the meat. Restricting things like egg, or say milk for example would extremely reduce your protein intake. Reason why I'm vegetarian, is because I can't take the taste of meat. But…everything else that isn't meat gets a green light. Sometimes, even fish could do in place of meat, since comparatively fish is a bit more healthier, than say beef.

As for the animal cruelty part, well plants are living things too. Just because they don't show pain, does not necessarily mean they don't feel it. So…you can either feel the guilt and stop eating living things and starve to death, or you can simply accept the truth that to survive as a biological entity, you need to consume other biological entities.

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Not all animal foods require destroying living animals. For example, unfertilized eggs fall out of a chickens ass and rot on the ground if you don't do anything with them just like fruits.



If you eat eggs you're still a vegetarian, retard.



Way more than B12 and dirt is not edible.



If that was what's happening, if you were picking an egg that fallen out of free wild hen's ass on the ground and was abandoned then this analogy could roughly work. But that's not how egg industry works, actually it requires things worse than killing a hen.


Drinking milk is still supporting the rape if cows

Eating eggs is still supporting the murder of male chicks/nuggets

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Okay, I can understand the issues with milk. But whats the problem with eggs if you source them locally, know that they're treated well? Those little fuckers would hardly be treated better in 'the wild'. Is it solely the premise of 'owning' the animal that upsets people?

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>Missing the point this hard still


>Those little fuckers would hardly be treated better in 'the wild'.

Getting killed quickly by a predator after living free is not worse than being forced to lay eggs 24 hours a day and force fed to the point where their legs break. How long did you think before writing that?

From https://veganrabbit.com/the-issues/rotten-why-eggs-are-bad/:

>When you eat an egg you are supporting the murder of hundreds of millions of male chicks every year (200,000,000 – two-hundred million in the United States alone). They are killed by the hundreds of thousands every day by being thrown in a dumpster and left to die, tossed in garbage bags and suffocated, or more commonly, by being ground up alive in meat grinders.

>Free-range eggs

>The label “free-range eggs” might conjure images of an open pasture, where chickens are free to run around, peck at the dirt, flap their wings and enjoy life, but in truth it is just another marketing ploy. In the USDA’s own words:

> “The birds are raised in heated and air-cooled growing houses with access to the outdoors…”

>This outdoor area that chickens may have access to (and the amount of access they have varies) can be as small as a back porch or covered patio, with a small, hard to find door. While this is a great step in the right direction compared to the lives of conventionally raised egg-laying hens, it is still most definitely not cruelty-free. Once again, many chickens are debeaked, forced to live in their own waste, often fed the same antibiotic and arsenic-laden feed that conventional chickens eat, and are still slaughtered in ways that will make your stomach turn. Free-range chickens are far from free, and they don’t live on a range.



>Normal people don’t have thoughts of “think of the poor farm animals”.

Most "normal" people are nothing more than pleasure seeking animals.

>That’s more of a vegan homo thing.

citation needed.


My mum has rescue chickens (ones that escaped slaughter) Is it ok to eat their eggs?


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>I wont go Vegan because its hard and all the food I like is non-Vegan!

I keep seeing Meatcucks say this. I think the biggest problem people have with going Vegan is that they really do feel like they're sacrificing a lot. Which isn't true at all. In fact most things meat eaters like is already Vegan and they don't even know it

ITT: post good vegan food, bonus points if its something people normally don't even associate with Veganism

I'll start with something simple, motherfucking french fries. Bonus: Ketchup to dip the fries in

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That depends HIGHLY on where any given population of humans lived.

That wouldn't have been true for people living in the arctic circle, for example.





Choose 2 and only 2.



Good 'ole oatmeal.


Beer counts as food right? (although some breweries like Guiness apparently use some fish byproduct to control foaming or something)


True about mushrooms but..

>Oyster shrooms taste just like seafood

You've never had actual seafood, have you?



Dairy is OK, but eggs are definitely not vegetarian.


Give this man some hemlock extract!


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All vegan. The key is in learning to cook, thankfully, plants seem to be easier/faster to cook usually


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If it could be demonstrably proven that practically all plant life, and especially the edible varieties that people would consume to sustain themselves, has consciousness, can feel pain, can display some degree of intelligence, and other qualities that vegans attribute to animals in order to assert that their lives are as meaningful or valuable as human life, and therefore should be preserved, would it not stand to reason that their moral high ground would be shattered, should they continue to eat said vegetation? Then what would we eat? Rocks and sand, so that we may honor the sanctity of all life on the planet?

>b-but what about muh environmentalism

Fine, you can have that point in your favor. The agriculture industry and animal slaughterhouses are in large part responsible for the destruction of the planet to some degree, but then again there are many other sources of this destruction and, in order to fully address the issue, we as a society would need to not only cease these activities and industries, but also find tenable alternatives that would allow the products that are yielded from them to continue to be produced. Is such a thing even possible?


Fruits and nuts would still exist.


>If it could be demonstrably proven that practically all plant life, and especially the edible varieties that people would consume to sustain themselves, has consciousness, can feel pain, can display some degree of intelligence, and other qualities that vegans attribute to animals in order to assert that their lives are as meaningful or valuable as human life, and therefore should be preserved, would it not stand to reason that their moral high ground would be shattered, should they continue to eat said vegetation? Then what would we eat? Rocks and sand, so that we may honor the sanctity of all life on the planet?

Carnist often become plants-right activist when confronted with the system of veganism, ultimately, if this were true, considering that vegans are not against eating meat or killing animals per se, but it is a position of minimizing harm to the greatest degree possible and practicable as in the definition of it then eating plants would still be vegan. If plants were sentient in this way, which they aren't, then not eating meat would reduce the overall harm to them and allow us to live. We aren't against humanity.

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give me 1 (one) reason to go vegan

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My opinion of you will go up.



Diets are also propaganda and there is no vegan food.


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Taking an animals life is unnecessary when you can get all the nutrients you need from plants. The hidden cost of eating animal products is higher risks of disease; cancer and other diseases are usually just karma.

>inb4 B12

watch video



<Taking this skeleton cuck seriously.



You can't get K2 w/o meat if you're allergic to soy

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A thought I had about this article was that humans and their ancestors could have achieved the same end by developing agriculture and techniques for it, on top of cutting up/mashing their food to reduce the need for so much tooth-age. On top of this, vegan agriculture would lead the way for the establishment of civilization while not draining so many resources, including precious water and land, for raising livestock – this in turn increasing the margin of resources able to be used for the development of said civilizations. I won't deny that meat was convenient for pre-modern humans to consume, but certainly it seems it could have gone a better way, though of course then again you can't really blame semi-primitive apes for not knowing better; historian's fallacy and all. In the modern age, however, we do realistically have no excuse not to transition food production to a vegan base, since the level of productive forces in the world is so intense that there is now way more food in the world than people need – it's just that much of it also gets thrown away because it's not profitable to feed everyone.

Also I guess selective breeding of plants would have helped older human-types to have softer, more nutritious foods, but once again that's something that's rather difficult for ancient people to stumble across, yet something we certainly are able to in the present.



Pretty shit speculation. The reason there are no such cases of this anywhere is because it was ineffectual. If it was so resource draining, any tribe, any group really, which adopted a 'so much more efficient' strategy would have come about and dominated the rest.



More likely that the vegans stopped being fertile (like usual) and/or were killed.

For the health, energy, and hydration that meat provides, there is no real waste.



It's called a farm, which includes livestock.

Your vegan version of history is a fantasy.

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Not all animals that get eaten are cute and cuddly like some here would lead you to believe with all the cute animal pics posted.

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They would do better than vegan for sure, but of course vegans have to compare themselves to old men because they are so degraded.


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Even if you are a veggie or a vegan you should never fucking support PETA holy shit, they're a borderline scam charity.


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This is literally what a stack of meat looks like at a butcher's, except in human form. HUNGRY NOW, CARNIVORES?



That is one shitty butcher but the answer is yes.

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Short version of "Cowspiracy".


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Do you really know what goes into your meat? This is just a human verison of the shit that you fucking carnivores do to animals. FUCK YOU




Lead doesn't go in it.

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