/vn/ - Visual Novels

Well first, I had to look up what "occidental" meant because I'm a moron.

Western-style VNs are rare. You'll never find a big company making such a thing. The reason that it's rare is purely due to the fact that VNs are an almost exclusively Japanese medium. Western VN developers choose to use an Eastern style because it's just the way things are. It's what people are used to and it's what's come to be expected of VNs.
I cannot for the life of me think of a VN in a western drawing style. Even a bit of searching on VNDB didn't bring me any closer to finding one. It might not currently exist, simply for lack of drive to make one.

That being said, a VN doesn't need to be drawn in an Eastern style in order to be a VN, or even a good one. There's no reason you can't make a good occidental VN if you really wanted to. It's just that nobody has really had the drive to do such a thing yet.

I'm kind of curious as well now. It'd make for an interesting read at least.

They do exist even if they are rare, and most tend to be in anime style.

It's not that a VN needs to be in the Eastern style to be one, it's just that VN fans usually got in because they are anime fans and thus more used to that style.

KS is my personal favorite, though special mention goes to Sugar's Delight for making a decent yuri nukige. Also, the Meangerie seems like it'll be an interesting futa VN and the world could use more futa.

>>278
>After seeing the popularity of The Walking Dead by Telltale Games, I think that VN's could have mainstream appeal in the west(without the porn).
The Walking Dead games popularity, along with that of the recent Telltale Game Of Thrones game, isn't going to be replicateable without such big names behind them.

Having played the games without watching or reading the Walking Dead, they're incredibly mediocre. The story falls flat and the characters are unlikeable by and large. The character choices are ridiculous and you never feel any sense of real urgency because all problems appear out of nowhere and go within minutes. Not to say I didn't enjoy it, but that's the truth.
The series gained a lot of acclaim and sales, but it did so in the same way Gone Home got them. The reviewer acclaim isn't trustworthy (even with good or bad reviews, many reviewers don't play the games), fan reaction has been mixed and the sales spike during times it's talked about while they taper off to incredibly low levels when it's not fresh in the minds of the public.
I still agree with you that VNs could have larger Western Appeal, but I just don't see them having mainstream appeal. Remember that even slight knowledge of Japanese porn games in the general public went very badly last time.

>>279
I'm assuming sales went well since Telltale went on to spawn 4 new series afterwards, but you could be right about people merely buying them due to the associated brand. Still, they haven't gone under yet, so there must be enough people buying these interactive stories to justify Telltale's existence.

>Remember that even slight knowledge of Japanese porn games in the general public went very badly last time.
Maybe, but you can be sure a lot more people discovered and bought RapeLay because of it.

>>280
Sales definitely went well for Walking Dead, no denying that. But looking at the sales of their titles which don't have such large names, it's not as good. The Wolf Among Us didn't do great, and their Sam and Max series has been losing Steam for a long time. They're not gonna go under anytime soon now that they've got the Game Of Thrones license which basically prints money with people for some reason, but they're forming an idea of episodic story-driven games which differs a bit too much from VNs for me to think normal people will suddenly get into it. It will bring more people into the community though, this I 100% agree with.
>Maybe, but you can be sure a lot more people discovered and bought RapeLay because of it.
Oh, of course. Hell, I fucking bought it. It wasn't even that good. But while people like us may have done so, the "mainstream" public still views it as a horrible thing.
VNs will never go mainstream. They're just too against the grain of the common person that it won't happen. But they can definitely find a larger niche.

>>281
I sorta wonder if Telltale games simply aren't doing well due to their episodic nature and that they would do better if they did games with whole stories instead.

I honestly doubt it because of attention span issues and because it's not like Heavy Rain did particularly well, but I would like to see Telltale release a significantly long game like that just to be sure.

Anyways, yeah, VN's will probably never become mainstream. Not even because of porn, people just don't like reading anymore and because they discriminate against the whole moe thing.

>>292
There aren't too many good western-style visual novels, the best I've played are probably Unteralterbach and Katawa Shoujo because they are made more professionally and don't look like they could be found on Newgrounds or something, and the plots are up to par with the average Eastern VN.

>>293
Katawa Shoujo is what I'd call "fan-fiction tier".

50 shades of Hanako wasn't exactly a spice rack of characters.

>>294
It wasn't any worse than the average low-production value VN from Japan. People seem to have the misconception that all VNs have a unique plot and characters, because only the cream of the crop is translated into English.

>>296
Oh there is definitely a mountain of shit coming out from grorious nippon. But KS just plays out like a fan-fiction.

Every girl was like a slightly different Hanako, with Rin just being one of the worst characters I've ever seen in a VN. I didn't expect a marathon length Epic of Gilgamesh type scenario, but even low budget VNs from Japan at least either vary with characters or stick with fewer routes.

>>297
In hindsight you could probably call it 'fanfiction-tier', maybe not 'flash game-tier', but I even thought F/SN was fanfiction-tier at first, atleast the artstyle felt straight out of deviantart. I guess the writing wasn't a strong point (I played Hanako's first and enjoyed it the most), but the artstyle wasn't bad and the music was quite good I'd say.

My main point is that it wouldn't be impossible to see KS in a bin somewhere at a Japanese eroge retailer and it was still the closest thing to a successful one that the West had churned out at that point.

>>298
Fan-fiction tier is relating purely to the story, flash-tier would pertain to something with horrendous art like Gender Bender DNA Twister Extreme.

KS could definitely pass for a low end Jap VN, I'm not trying to deny that. All I'm trying to say is that as amazing as it was for a Western VN, it's only good when looked at in that category. And that's why you see so few Western VNs being talked about, because even some of the best aren't all that great.

On a side note, I also enjoyed Hanako's route, but looking back on it even my favorite (Emi) was just a variation on the hanako character.

>>301
Yeah, it really only stands out at all when looked at it under that light. Hopefully one day we get some real talent on the western VN scene and a renaissance of sorts takes place (that's honestly my dream). But why do you think every route was some variation of Hanako's? Just curious

>>303
>But why do you think every route was some variation of Hanako's? Just curious
It's just that every route built up a lot on exposition and then left very little time for the resolution to come smoothly. As a result every route seems to involve everything going downhill until a pivotal moment sets everything right immediately and with no slowly easing positive precedent.
Hanako was basically a character who was an insecure trainwreck who just wanted love with deep seated abandonment issues. And then that archetype carried into every other character through their route. Even the characters like Shizune who were dominant, became as such in their resolutions to their route.

It's not a total gripe, just a damper on an otherwise okay route structure.

Embric of Wulfhammer. It's a charming yuri VN using RPGMaker. No combat, a large number of endings, lots of interaction with scenery. Western art.

http://wulfhammer.org/

>>307
Not a vn by technicality, but it's a very good JRPG-esque adventure game.

I wonder why the West is generally inept when it comes to VNs (obviously there's exceptions but those are never fantastic either) but is it just due to the niche nature of them (lack of professionals making them - but that doesn't stop other genres) or them just thinking 'I don't need to put in effort. I can copy what the Nips are doing and not attempt anything new'?

Plus today I read a dumbass article/blog listing 'Six Japanese Dating Sims to Fall In Love With' intending to list otome ones only that listed VNs, one BL (it's aimed at girls but it's a separate (sub-)genre at this point), one English and one that was Korean - really makes no sense to list good games and limit it to ones available in English. Seems like an overall lack of shits given to get things right.

>>298
>the music was quite good I'd say
I think the sex scene music was really off-putting (or at least I remember it being so).

>>307
Is the site down?

>>509
>I wonder why the West is generally inept when it comes to VNs
It's so tiny over here and the few that would bother making one aren't the best, or most inspired. If it grows in popularity it'll probably attract some more competent devs.

>>509
I think part of it is that most people who make visual novels are either weeaboos or SJW's. The former end up copying Japan to an unsuccessful degree and the latter are afraid to be offensive (and aren't really known for good work ethic).

I get the feeling that it's better than before though, before it was laughably bad, now it's leveling out to about mediocre. I'd say maybe a decade would be enough to get it near-par, you can't forget that most Japanese VN's are inherently shit as well.

KS aside, my favorite Western VN is Sugar's Delight and that's only because it was a decent yuri nukige, and I'm biased towards yuri. I also think that Sunrider's half decent though the writing is semi-frequently cringe worthy.

>>511
>you can't forget that most Japanese VN's are inherently shit as well
Definitely but Western VNs just haven't reached the positive side of that scale as Japanese ones have. I can't speak for Korean VNs at all though - I'm not sure how big those are.

>The former end up copying Japan to an unsuccessful degree
They do often use very similar character traits but otherwise it's hard to know where to go. Mostly relies on good writing and a decent degree of player interaction (most of the time anyway). I always wondered if a game that merge IFs and VNs could work - or if that would just be an IF with pictures.

It reminds me that Honey Pop had silly character blinking but only one stance and facial expression. Facial emotion was all done through eyebrows and mouth twitches. Felt like a lazy step back and rather robotic.

>>510
I hope so. Same for the dating sim genre. There are some okay ones, rather simple I suppose - nothing special but nothing to write home about either. Not that I can list amazing good Japanese ones (not a genre I've given much time to but I should).

>>516
Honey Pop is just a symptom of a new craze that I've dubbed "Almost-but-not-quite Steam Porn".

It's the same reason Sakura Spirit sold well, the same reason the sequel did, and Honey Pop included. The trend of putting almost tits in your game has guaranteed a sale, and every review comes out positive with the same joke put in with the old "Durr I am just researching how did this get in my library I didn't buy it" shit.

It's a damn shame too, because there's some talent out there overshadowed by the fact that good writing won't sell nearly as well as pictures of tits. And so Steam is probably the biggest obstacle to good VNs in the West.

>>533
Steam's also the biggest obstacle of ero in the west, so what we end up with is the worst of both, nukige without the porn.