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/vn/ - Visual Novels

Where you can fuck a burn victim, and not feel weird about it.

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File: 1436842211448-0.jpg (172.73 KB, 1000x600, 5:3, Katawa.Shoujo.full.242058.jpg)

File: 1436842211496-1.png (123.37 KB, 1440x900, 8:5, katawa shoujo.png)

 No.865

No Katawa Shoujo thread on /vn/, i am disappoint. It's a great starter vn, written by halfchan.

hanako is best girl

 No.866

File: 1436854882222.png (67.31 KB, 244x331, 244:331, 1363092056730.png)

In hindsight, I was a little disappointed by the prevalent anti-hero-complex narrative that permeated all of the routes in KS. It was like the authors were all wagging their fingers at the audience saying "don't you dare come here thinking you're going to save any of these girls" as if the audience was even thinking like that in the first place. It was very pre-emptive, and struck me as being a little insecure, like they had something to prove even though nobody was challenging them to do so. The way Emi and Hanako - among others - boil over with rage at the player for daring to show direct care and concern for them makes it obvious who is really doing the talking, and who is really the intended recipient of the lecture.

I didn't understand Kenji at all, initially. He wasn't like what you would expect out of a comedy sidekick, and it was definitely in a bad way. He was very divisive, and as many people found him a tiresome nuisance as those who found him to be delightfully kooky. But this was before I encountered MRAs on Youtube and other places on the internet, and then a horrible realization dawned on me - Kenji was made to be a "parody" of these people. It all fell into place; why he was more weird than funny, and why everyone - even airheads like Misha - could easily snipe him with zingers that made him the obvious fool in every situation. He wasn't actually intentionally made to be funny - apparently it was just that MRAs were someone's idea of something that was funny in and of itself, so misrepresenting this political group as a retarded guy tickled their funny bone and I guess the rest of us were supposed to just come along for the ride. It's actually really insulting when someone thinks that they can just mock someone they don't like - unironically - and expect to have crafted a circumstance of such obvious humor that there must be something wrong with you if you aren't laughing along. Maybe jokes would have worked better than a transparent tarring-and-feathering of the writers' political opponents.

Did it strike anyone else as odd that the only recipient of oral sex in the entire story was Rin? What was that all about? It seems like the developers were hell-bent on making KS as tasteful as they possibly could make it, and while I think they largely succeeded, what's wrong with fellatio? It doesn't happen once, in any character's route, and even then, only Rin gets to receive cunnilingus. In fact, all of the sexual scenes in KS do their utmost to conceal Hisao's penis at all times. Is it just that the illustrators had discomfort or difficulty with that part of the human anatomy, or does this speak more to what we consider to be vulgar and distasteful and what we do not?

Well, that was needlessly harsh, I suppose, considering that I thoroughly enjoyed KS for the most part aside from those nitpicks and gripes.

I will say that I don't think there's really such a thing as a "starter" VN, as really you should be able to start on anything that you like. Fate/Stay Night was my first VN, and I discovered it just as Mirror Moon had finally completed their 100% patch for the entire game. If I can start on a VN that's as long as the friggin' Bible, you can start on anything.


 No.867

File: 1436873626002.png (63.94 KB, 231x183, 77:61, you-sure-sure.png)

There was a KS thread earlier, but who cares.

>>866

Emi's one strikes me as a different case. For one, there's no way of knowing that she'd actually had that kind of problem before getting onto her storyline, so Hisao's invested in it because he cares about her first and foremost.

For another, that storyline is about what it means to be in a relationship, to let someone close, and it's natural for Emi to be defensive. And for a third, I can see Hisao having a white knight struggle in that instance; Emi helped him, after all, and it's arguable his depressed ass needed help much more than she did. Combine that with how smitten he is and how much trouble he sees her in, and it's only natural he'd want to return the favour.

Hanako is a bit of an odd case for me; hearing about her bad ending is what got me interested in the game, but when going through act 1 I couldn't see approaching her in a way other than wanting to comfort her. If Hisao could engage with her more as a regular person without it feeling like me going that far out of his way, maybe I'd have gotten onto her storyline more easily.

Then again, with the main character, I'm not sure I'm doing this whole /vn/ thing right. I never wanted Hisao to be a blank self-insert slate, I wanted him to be his own character. I only really enjoy romance stories when there's two parties at work. Seeing parts in the game that reflected that were some of my preferred parts, so long as they didn't seem contrived as shit. The parts I got a kick out of where were the relationships felt like between two characters, and my favourite paths were the ones where he got just enough for me to see him like that.

On Kenji, you sure you're not just taking him too seriously? He was a bad character IMO, but treating him as if he was meant to embody all MRAs is a bit much.


 No.868

File: 1436881468177.jpg (11.59 KB, 214x236, 107:118, bbf.jpg)

>>866

I think the anti-white knight aspects were more of a comment on other vns rather than calling out the audience, because there is a tendency in visual novels to encourage that sort of behavior (sharin no kuni, Grisia, Heaven's Feel in F/SN just off the top of my head). Which is only one aspect of how the game distances itself from traditional Japanese vns, and while I don't know all that much about the creation of the game but I think that the idea that a disabled person needs coddling is a pretty important theme to address in a game about people with disabilities.

Also on the Kenji thing. I wasn't a huge fan and I get your issues with him, but I don't think he was just an MRA parody. He has moments of just being weird and he has moments of actual friendship with Hisao. He's definitely let down by a lack of backstory and this is definitely not helped by the rest of the cast being so fucking good but I think he's more then just a parody.

>>867

I also agree with you on Emi. Her route is all about reconciling her inability to let people get close with Hisao's desire for a relationship, which she contextualizes as being "white-knighting" when really Hisao just wants greater intimacy between them.

On Hanako, that's sort of the point of her route I think. That you/Hisao go in trying to fix her and realize that that's not what she needs by the end of the route. I think the issue is that you went in already knowing about her bad end and understanding the issue at play rather than exploring it as shown in the game (at least from how you said you got interested in the game) and joining Hisao on his arc.


 No.869

File: 1436893861373.jpg (28.92 KB, 600x600, 1:1, 1431567950388.jpg)

>>867

>>868

It's not like I'm absolutely sure about Kenji, it's just that his character always threw me off for a reason I couldn't quite put my finger on. It didn't make sense to me until I plugged in "Oh, maybe he's a mock-MRA" as a possible explanation. Trouble is, it's just as plausible as it is plausibly-deniable, so I can't really take it any further than a "I wonder if that's what they meant to do with him." I probably wouldn't have even considered it if it weren't for the white-knighting narrative hanging around.

>I think that the idea that a disabled person needs coddling is a pretty important theme to address in a game about people with disabilities.

I think exactly the opposite. It's like KS is going "you better not be thinking of coddling these girls just because they're crippled" and I'm going "what the hell is your problem, I wasn't even thinking about that." It strikes me as that sort of "see-color" narrative you see popping up in SocJus circles these days, where you absolutely cannot have someone with a not-white skin color and not have it crowbarred into the discussion, whether anybody actually needed a talking-to about it or not.

And I mean, the VN was made for /a/. The title is pretty horrible slang in Japanese. /a/ doesn't need a talking to about whether to treat a crippled girl like a proper waifu or not. And if they did, would their hearts and minds really be changed by a PSA in VN form?

It just struck me that every moment of "I'm a strong independent crippled girl who don't need no white knight" was a wasted one which could have been taken up by a much better-written bit of dialogue that actually taught us more about the characters and the setting in general.


 No.870

File: 1436924116275.jpg (98.19 KB, 799x599, 799:599, LL9UdOI.jpg)

>>869

>I think that the idea that a disabled person needs coddling is a pretty important theme to address in a game about people with disabilities

Yeah this was bad wording on my part. I meant that that idea is a good one to include in the kind of story the KS is, rather than a blanket statement to the audience that they're bad for wanting to help disabled people.

I understand what you're saying about the "see-colour" narrative, but I wouldn't say that it's been crowbarred in. Only two of the five routes really go into it and Emi's is more about her being afraid of closeness than Hisao doing any actual white-knighting.

>taught us more about the characters and the setting in general.

See I don't really get what you mean by this. It's my understanding that the moments of "strong independent crippled girl" do inform the setting and characters by showing us how the characters/setting react to coddling (explosively).


 No.873

File: 1437052764059.jpg (329.17 KB, 530x750, 53:75, f1c79633a16f6623a31273fccf….jpg)

>>870

Lilly's route is a very good example of what happens when a KS route gets past the whole "cripple girl" issue right away. Lilly ain't shy about it, it doesn't get in the way, and her story goes on to cover what's going on in her family and social life. She's having doubts about whether she is enabling Hanako in acting almost more like a mom than a friend to her, she's got her family's expectations to worry about, and then she has to make a hard choice between Hisao and the call to return home. It's all tough stuff to work out, none of it has anything to do with her being blind, and she's all the stronger as a character for it.

Whereas with Hanako, she's completely defined by her massive complex, and there's very little to her outside of it. That one little aside she had about playing the game of "don't step on the wrong tile" was something that the fanbase latched onto hard primarily because it was one of the few aspects about Hanako's route that actually gave her something resembling a personality. It's also the reason everyone loves her bad end scene - because she finally opens up and makes it clear that she has thoughts in her head which are actually introspective. But you don't get any of that if you don't actually take the path that puts you on the bad end! Lilly's blindness was little more than an accessory to her character, whereas Hanako's personality was an accessory to her disability.

The same happened with Emi, though to a lesser extent. Yes, her real issue is with the death of her father, but she also has a massive complex about being treated like she's handicapped, which she is. It doesn't completely take over, because she always has her track and field as a hobby, and there are enough instances of her doing things that show she actually has interests outside of her handicap.

That's what I mean about the narrative butting in on opportunities to develop the characters. You hardly even notice that Rin doesn't have arms during her route, except for the fuss that other people make about it - the trouble is that she is forgetting to treat Hisao like a person with his own affections and needs in a close relationship. You hardly notice that Shizune is deaf outside of the physical limitations that imposes on her, because the focus is on how hard you're NTRing Misha. And again, Lilly gets a very strong development because very little time is wasted on pointing out how her blindness inconveniences her life. There's a limited word count for every route, and the more of that word count is spent on poo-pooing the act of white knighting for a crippled girl, the less is spent on dealing with more important, less skin-deep issues.

It's kind of like how you have to get past Shirou's white knighting in F/SN to learn that what his problem really is amounts to a massive survivor's guilt complex, and that Saber also has a hero's complex - the two of them have to overcome their own obsession with taking on all the burdens of their own and everyone else's problems in order to work together properly. There's juicy stuff under the surface that we as readers want to get to, and it's disappointing when what's on the surface winds up being all or most of what there was to it all along.


 No.880

File: 1437432612865.jpg (48.21 KB, 446x547, 446:547, understanding is key.jpg)

Late reply because life's a bitch.

>>868

Fair enough on Hanako, and I guess it did get ruined for me a bit. I do find it frustrating that there can't be an appeal for wanting to get to know her; asking an introverted person to open up doesn't have to be on the same level as white knighting, but maybe I'm just missing what they were going for. Maybe that's why I never actually got around to doing her route.

>>873

I'm not sure you're going about the disabilities the right way - there's a difference between "getting past the whole 'cripple girl' issue right away" and leaving it as a defunct trait that might as well not be there. Using a disability respectfully doesn't strictly mean slapping a disability onto the character and then leaving it as a meaningless trait they've never dealt with or changed because - the other extreme is letting it define their character, but that is not true for anyone in KS.

I still don't consider Emi a fair example of what you're going for - I'd almost consider her a subversion. To get on her storyline, you have to be thinking about Hisao instead by running on the track. You tell me she had a massive complex over her lack of legs, but she also talks very naturally about her legs (e.g being completely cool with the idea of getting paired up with Rin since they're both missing limbs, picking 'pirate' as a career choice). Until the nurse mentioned it was an accident, I couldn't tell if Emi's legs were from a birth defect or not; it just wasn't something there was any hint of. She only gets defensive about being legless in the same breath that she's trying to avoid her real problems, which are the actual things meant to be on the player's mind at this stage, and certainly all that Hisao thinks of. But even so, let me consider what you're asking for - are you saying Emi shouldn't have had a harsh backstory? I'd be wary about that, because she's only one of two core characters who does, and while I agree that disabled people shouldn't be thought of as weaker because they're disabled, I find it worse to speak as if they can't have damage, as everyone has damage even if some don't have to try as hard as others to hide it. That would just dehumanise them, IMO.

At worst, I'd say that the characters draw an archetype from their disabilities - the boy with the heart condition suffers from depression and empathy issues, the girl without arms can't get a grasp of things the same way as others, the leg amputee runs from her problems, the legally blind guy can't see what's in front of him, etc. Even then I'd hesitate to call that disrespectful.

And finally, someone who gets what was good about Shirou/Saber.


 No.882

File: 1437483627786.jpg (61.13 KB, 800x599, 800:599, daa.jpg)

Sorry for the lateness my internet shit the bed.

>>880

Yeah you kinda need to have played her route to get it :P

It makes more sense in context considering all the cues Hisao's been given at that point to just leave her be for a bit.

>>873

I agree with >>880 on this one, I don't get what you mean by a "massive complex about being treated like she's handicapped". Sure she doesn't like being wheelchair bound but that's totally understandable given her past and her obsession with running. The conflict between her and Hisao is never really about her being disabled it's about her intimacy issues that's why they go to her dads grave at the end of the route. She's accepting the fact that the people near her may die but she loves Hisao anyway just like she loved her dad. If her route was about being seen as weak then it would have ended with her winning the Olympics or something and proving her worth, but it doesn't because it isn't.

I think the reason that Hanako's bad end is popular is actually because it's a huge and deserved fuck you to the players. It's perfect punishment for the players that ignored the continued warnings and it hits hard because the most introverted character in the game is fucking screaming at you.

The tile hopping scene is interesting because it's the first little glimpse we get of the real Hanako through all her introversion. You get other stuff like that later but it all takes place once she's warmed up to Hisao more.

>>There's a limited word count for every route, and the more of that word count is spent on poo-pooing the act of white knighting for a crippled girl, the less is spent on dealing with more important, less skin-deep issues.

See, I don't get this. Just because the idea that a person's disability might give them problems is obvious doesn't mean it's not worth exploring. We all know that the holocaust was bad but that doesn't mean there shouldn't be a Schindler's List or an Inglorious Bastards. And by exploring these "obvious" truths we gain understanding of things we haven't experienced. Look at the relationship between Shizune and Lily and how their disabilities impede their ability to communicate. Look at how Shizune distances herself from people due to her not being able to communicate the same way everyone else does. If you want to have a well-written minority character they're going to explore certain aspects of life as a minority whether that's racial-tensions or psychological damage and to disregard that makes them weird effigies of minority rather than human characters.

>>880

I feel like the character's disabilities are more of a symbol of their character rather than the other way around. The characters all do fit into archetypes (Rins a mad artist, Hisao's the everyman, etc.) these aren't really related to their disabilities.


 No.883

File: 1437515461186.jpg (99.25 KB, 600x600, 1:1, a feminist, not your waifu.jpg)

>One-note comic relief character.

>Nutty beyond belief

>Relies on the same shtick for every scene

How do we fix Kenji?


 No.884

>>883

Wasn't he supposed to get his own route but they cut it out due to time/effort/whatever?


 No.885

>>884

Sounds more like Misha.


 No.890

>>883

I think they just wanted to add a slice of 4chan into the VN as a homenage to their birthplace


 No.892

>>885

I guess I was mistaken then. A bigger role would have been nicer. He was more interesting than all of the girls.


 No.893

File: 1437878472008.gif (1.97 MB, 250x220, 25:22, 1384517803219.gif)

>>892

>A blatant one-gimmick comic relief nut

>More interesting than actually fleshed out characters

You trollin' us, son?


 No.894

File: 1437968747091.png (152.1 KB, 435x427, 435:427, Untitled.png)

>>892

Are you genuinely retarded?


 No.896

>>893

>>894

I'd rather listen to the retarded ravings of a one-note twat instead of the repetitive 'woe is me, I have self-esteem issues a bloo bloo bloo' and whatever Lily's problem was (was it self-esteem again?). At least he had his own one-note instead of sharing with with several other characters.


 No.899

>>896

You know, this guy's kind of right. KS heroines are all kind of the same


 No.900

File: 1438212681271.webm (324.07 KB, 800x450, 16:9, 1430326782076.webm)

>>899

No, that's still bullshit. Emi's problem has so little to do with 'woe is me' self-esteem that it's laughable, Rin's problem is that she can't understand other people, and Shizune's is she gets too competitive/hard on everyone. You might say Hanako has self-esteem issues, but that's really just a massive understatement for 'social anxiety issues'. Lilly's the only one I can think of who you can say has this, but really she doesn't have any problems with her at all.

I can't see how you can call them all the same, either. Each of them need to be treated differently or Hisao gets nowhere.


 No.901

File: 1438224829160.jpg (15.36 KB, 172x172, 1:1, 1411594157204.jpg)

>>899

Nope, not at all. That's a gross oversimplification and I don't even know how to begin explaining to you why you're wrong. I'd appreciate it if you could elaborate a little.

>>900

If I remember correctly Lilly's route is more about her dealing with the conflict between her and her family and trying to reconcile her feelings for them and her feelings for her friends in Japan. But it is lighter in conflict than the other routes because of how straightforward Lilly is about things.

Also, yeah Hanako does have self-esteem issues, that's her motivation for having sex with Hisao. But it stems from being emotionally crippled and feeling like a burden on others.


 No.904

File: 1438287131851.jpg (177.57 KB, 784x1019, 784:1019, 1410210115057.jpg)

>>899

This post is so wrong it's actually really impressive.


 No.913

File: 1438481952934.png (123.98 KB, 1253x573, 1253:573, master of romance.png)

>>904

>>901

>>900

Sorry, I was high when I posted that and I got confused, what I wanted to say is that the story is the same for all routes. Boy meets girl, things are going fine (being Rin's buddy, Emi's bf, Lilly/Hanako's friend, Shizune's slav… partner), then things aren't (Rin kicks him out, Emi shuts him out, Lilly's plans on leaving, Hanako shuts herself in, Misha's depresion), Hisao does something in response (he get's mad at Rin, stops running with Emi, doubts and then chases Lilly, gets worried sick about Hanako, is impotent about Shizune and Misha's relationship), then he does something else after reflecting some more (he understands Rin, he faces Emi in the track/roof, realizes he doesn't want to let Lilly go, decides not to be that of a whiteknight to Hanako. Oddly Shizune's route's the one the MC changes the least I think) and finally because of Hisao's actions things end up fairy tale like. The end.

Of course it's very broad but my point is, they are all built the same way, storytelling wise they're very alike. Not that it's a bad thing, I enjoyed KS a lot (first VN I've read) but I still think it's overrated


 No.917

>>913

Ok that makes much more sense then before.

I find this interesting because you're essentially reducing the story down its beats for each route which brings up the question of whether or not it's possible to tell original stories. Personally I think that the formula of meeting, relationship, problem, solution, catharsis can be applied to pretty much any sort of story and the real meat is in the setting and characters and other dressing. Also you only take into account the good endings which seems like a disservice to the really good bad ends (Hanako's).


 No.920

>>917

I took the good endings as canon to simplify, but yes, some bad endings can be better than the good ones, I think Hanako's bad end is the one that makes her grow more as a person, and Lilly's neutral is the most realistic one.

I think that humans only repeat the same story all over again, our own life story.

It begins in a starting point that's usually good (Iwanako's confession, infance), then the inocent character must face hardships, much like growing up (Hisao's heart attack/moving to Yamaku, bird leaves the nest, younghood), then he grows, changing as he absorbs from his surroundings (the scene in Rin's route when he chooses wich girl to be like comes to mind. Early adulthood), then with his newfound tools conquers the hardships (adulthood) and finally ends somewhere different than the starting point, better or worse, but different, much like aging. We cannot create OC, we only repeat what we know, even on a very instinctive level


 No.921

>>920

I disagree about Hanako's bad end being the one where she grows the most. I think that, while it is incredibly affecting, it's essentially Hanako doubling down on her isolation from other people, whereas her good end shows how she is able to reconcile her feelings of worthlessness with her and Hisao's desire for a relationship and accept it knowing that she can lean on Hisao when she needs it.

On the story thing I still disagree somewhat. You can create models for stories and map out beats and all that shit but it doesn't change the fact that stories can be hugely different from one another while still having similar structures. Shit look at Memento or My Dinner with Andre, they're hugely different from most stories despite still sharing the same basic structure. This is what I mean about the meat of the story being in the setting. The setting and characters are what gives meaning to the structure of the story and get us invested. The setting and characters are how you make an artistic statement.


 No.922

File: 1438571864893.png (297.27 KB, 680x268, 170:67, NNNNNGGHH.png)

>>921

I didn't mean it as a strict law, more like a rule of thumb. When you create a story you don't create something from scratch, you just fill the "universal" structure with your own invention. Much like everyone looks different in the outside but all have preety much the same skeleton, give or take.

I think Hanako does grow more in the bad end because it forces her to stand up for herself, something she hadn't been doing. In the good end she only gets dependant on Hisao, she doesn't get any stronger herself. Of course she's happier on the good end but for how long? say that they break up in a few years, afterwards she'd be in square one all over again


 No.923

>>922

I still disagree. While Hanako does break out of her shell a little it's for the purpose of maintaining the status quo, whereas in the good ending she does more or less the same (the sex/the talk afterwards) to connect better with Hisao, except they're on equal footing here. Now whether or not they stay together I think is irrelevant, she's made the first step towards being able to recover.


 No.925

>>913

Now that I can agree with. The structure of the story is the same.

And Shizune's route doesn't count, it was junk. Shizune was rad, but not her route.


 No.930

>>925

if I reread Shizune's route it's mostly for Misha, same with Emi and the nurse, idk why but they make me smile. Well, Emi's route is good on it's own, nurse or not


 No.943

File: 1439913663094.jpg (169.67 KB, 719x720, 719:720, rinsider.jpg)

>>922

What if Hanako's bad end had been part of her canon route? That Hisao does it anyway, flips Hanako off hard and has to work his way back into her good graces as a friend and naturally letting her come out of her shell.


 No.946

File: 1440038234249.jpg (39.73 KB, 295x305, 59:61, 10good.jpg)

>>943

Not sure that it's part of her canon route, but it seems to have a meta component to it where instead of Hisao it's the player working to get into her good graces. Because the game makes it pretty clear that after she flips her shit their relationship is fucked beyond repair. It's interesting though because that meta commentary on the players is what makes her route so good.


 No.949

File: 1440075965119.png (274.22 KB, 1600x1200, 4:3, dbabda1f1dbb05cabf2d8f6388….png)

>>946

Well that's exactly what I was bitching about in >>869. I don't think the player ever needed to be directly scolded for having a savior complex. It's insulting to the audience and it seems insecure on the part of the creators. I don't play VNs for a Saturday morning cartoon morality lesson, I play VNs for the story. There is no sense in sacrificing the latter for the former to an audience of adults.


 No.950

File: 1440078696485.gif (2 MB, 500x281, 500:281, tumblr_nb8sf3Sl8U1su6o2to1….gif)

>>949

See I don't think that was the intention. I think it was an inevitable ending for the route when you consider Hanako's character and issues and the "metastory" I was talking about is just how her route seems to be seen in a wider sense.

I really don't think that her bad route was meant as a morality lesson or anything, just an exploration of character, but you seem pretty set on seeing it as a slight against conscientious vn players and I really don't get why.


 No.951

File: 1440125067982.jpg (106.25 KB, 780x963, 260:321, noTimeToExplain.jpg)

>>950

>>949

Well it's fair to say that the good end still tries to explore what Hanako and Hisao needed. The morality lesson there is that it's as much as them needing each other in the end, even though the route ends before we really get to see why, or see Hanako grow out of her shell.

I admit, it wasn't my favourite route.


 No.971

>>883

>How do we fix Kenji?

Give him a joke route with depth.


 No.1050

File: 1450963893235.png (178.93 KB, 841x316, 841:316, merry christmas hisao.png)

Merry Christmas, /vn/


 No.1054

>>866

>"don't you dare come here thinking you're going to save any of these girls" as if the audience was even thinking like that in the first place.

People who think they are "saving" others can be quite malicious unknowingly


 No.1058

File: 1451234526428.jpg (116.22 KB, 700x900, 7:9, f6b325ad9651db7326b02b2ec7….jpg)

>>1054

Malice describes an intent. It is impossible to be unknowingly malicious. While the recipient of paternalistic protection may feel insulted or condescended to by it, the intent of the delivering agent is not determined by their recipient's feelings.

It is well known that men have a penchant for paternalistic behavior and are particularly driven to attempt to approach the problems in womens' lives with simple solutions, (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4EDhdAHrOg), but if you observe romance stories directed at women, you find that they are prone to wanting to find themselves in the position of a fixer as well, only in a different way. Where male romance fantasies involve women who have very tangible needs typically solved by some form of protection or provision, female romance fantasies often center around a male who has his tangible assets together and appears strong on the outside but has some kind of emotional vulnerability that he only exposes to the heroine, who then fulfills her "fixer" role by correcting the problems in his life which stem from his emotional vulnerability and filling the hidden need in his heart for affection which only she can provide.

These are typical for romance stories, which are inherently a sort of guilty pleasure we all indulge in at least on occasion. I find it to be exceptionally cruel to reach into the world of the escapist to lecture them on how presumably evil their benevolent desires are. It is entirely human to want to earn someone's affection and to want to solve the problems of a loved one. If there is any evil in the world, it is the callous reinterpretation of this inherent good as a malicious intent.

Love, and everything that comes with it, is a natural, kind, caring, and beautiful part of the human psyche. It is cruel to wag a disapproving finger at the people who practice it.


 No.1059

File: 1451268841319.png (25.04 KB, 400x400, 1:1, oh mr nakai.png)

Which kind of VN protagonist is better - the blank slate that lets you project without inhibition, or the male lead which is relatable yet also a character in his own right?

Which of the two is Hisao like in each route, would you say?


 No.1074

>>880

Your point about Lilly is retarded. Consider that she is blind from birth and never experienced what she is missing. It's hard to be bitter about something that you don't know how it feels like. It's realistic to expect her to be matter-of-fact about her disability. I found her character to be refreshingly free of teen angst plaguing other heroines.


 No.1077

File: 1452131216812.jpg (63.09 KB, 647x813, 647:813, 1436264962842.jpg)

>>1074

I never said she should be angsty or bitter about her blindness, though. I just find it absurd to use her as the benchmark to write characters with disabilities by, especially since, as you pointed out, she was born with her disability while Emi wasn't.

You could put Hanako down to some angst, but I don't know if I'd write Emi as a particularly angsty character. If she is, then Rin is even more so.




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