64db8e No.140
Lets talk about Beaver Island, also lets talk about some things we'll need if we live on this Island, does anyone know any Carpentry / blacksmithing?
Also does anyone have any experience managing a somewhat sizable boat?
anyways some things about the Island:
>32 miles from mainland
>is pretty fucking large
>has a couple farms on it
>has a port
>is rich a Game and so are the surrounding Islands
fuck floods
>It's in a fresh water lake so no droughts
>pre made houses for us
64db8e No.141
It said flood detected, there's no actual (that I know of) flooding
392538 No.142
are there premade boats as well?
What about the northern winter?
da208a No.143
>>141
You could check USGS/FEMA flood maps but since it's a lake it should be pretty stable
64db8e No.144
>>142
There are vacation houses there. And so much wood we can keep warm.
And don't be a coldpussy, as long as we get jackets from the mainland and some ski masks it will be workable.
75d008 No.146
>>144
Plus, driftwood does come from all over to the coasts. And if it's THAT bad, we could go to the mainland coasts to get junk wood and chop down trees.
I'm learning how to distill/make kerosene fuel from plastic trash and various other sources. Thinking of making a How-To infographic or make a hand-written manual for my own records.
64db8e No.147
>>146
Thank you, I know how to make birch oil from birch bark (really simple) that can double as lamp fuel. And this island can be seen from space so I doubt well need Wood anytime soon.
Also does anyone know how to repair boats or build floating docks?
64db8e No.148
The southern beach is called iron ore bay, I wondernifs there's actual iron ore.
75d008 No.149
>>147
>And this island can be seen from space so I doubt well need Wood anytime soon
How does
being seen from space = If we need wood?
And I look through the do/k/ument, I have it. See if there's anything regarding repairing Boats and building docks, which there probably is.
>>148
There is more than likely iron there. I have an infographic/How-To on how to make iron weapons/tools, I'll upload it.
64db8e No.151
>>149
Most of it is wooded so more space=more wood
06cd5f No.153
What is the soil like there? As a Michiganfag I can tell you that once you get to the northern parts of the state the land becomes useless for any kind of serious agriculture. How do we plan on feeding ourselves?
75d008 No.159
>>153
The island itself is fair, more or less.
I have scanned the entire island through satellite and seen that there IS established farmland on the island.
Usually you can clear an area, turn up the soil, fertilize, water, and plant, but farmland
that's been furrowed and used for awhile is established and ready/made/adapt for farming, which there is on the island's center.
da208a No.184
>>149
That's whats called bog iron - to find it you need anoxic/reducing conditions to stabilize metallic iron such as in a bog or evidently the bottom of that lake. Certainly possible it's there, but more likely the iron is present as an oxide/hydroxide such as hematite, limonite, goethite etc. I dont know how you smelt Fe2O3 but that infographic procedure wont work for most iron ores.
75d008 No.186
>>184
Ay man im doin the best with wot i got
64db8e No.191
>>146
ohh, interesting tell me more
da208a No.194
>>191
Aye, no problem, just didn't want you to rely on that info if it wasnt gonna work.
da208a No.195
470e0f No.198
>>184
>know how you smelt Fe2O3
you just need something with a higher affinity for electrons than iron.
Your best bet would be powdered aluminum (due to the amount of aluminum used in today's society). You already knew that though. Powdered aluminum and iron oxide makes thermite.
470e0f No.199
>>198
2Fe2O3 + 3C -> 4Fe + 3CO2
Actually, you can reduce iron oxide to it's metallic form with carbon. This is the process used in the blast furnace.
06cd5f No.219
We should have a flag for the Beaver Island settlement. Besides a massive /k/ or a picture of Ivan the Remover not that those are bad ideas do we have any ideas?
Also, something I find interesting. During the winter the lake damn near freezes completely over, so it /may/ be possible to just walk across the lake or dogsled if we need to scavenge during winter. I really like the dogsledding idea though. Does anyone have experience with that?
64db8e No.227
We could after filling up the Main Island start colonizing the neighboring Islands then eventually after 20+ years we can retake some land on the Mainland,
So what I'm saying Flag should be Michigan Republic or something.
75d008 No.228
>>227
>eventually after 20+ years
Woah, dude, buddy, strelok…
I appreciate the enthusiasm and thinking ahead stuff, but this is for NOW, or, for when the shtf, not a couple decades in the future.
We discuss how to save ourselves NOW, if it is that bad later on, then when the time comes the topic will be discussed, but you're getting to hypothetical
06cd5f No.239
(Updated map to add the Kennesaw county Strelok, still need to know what county the third WI strelok lives in.)
My understanding of the Beaver Island plan from the "Last SHTF Thread" on /k/ is as follows:
>Streloks from Illinois and Indiana meet up and head north for the coast of Lake Michigan
>I and the people with me meet up with the main group at the coast
>We sweep north up the coast, seeking to acquire a boat/small fleet of boats to take us to Beaver Island
>The Wisconsinites either brave their way south to meet up with the Illinoisan and Hoosier stalkers, or they meet up and go up the coast of Lake Michigan on the other coast, hoping to find a boat and take it to Beaver Island
>Upon arrival we seek to collaborate with the locals, offering our expertise, labor, and protection in exchange for sharing the island
>Meanwhile the other streloks in the Easter U.S. meet up at their designated locations and gradually make their way to the coast of Lake Michigan
>This will likely take a few months
>A rendezvous point is arranged and the Beaver Island streloks will take a few craft to pick up the other East Coast streloks.
Tentative Governmental Plans:
>Odd numbered council of elected members serve for a few years
>Half of the number is drawn from the island's original inhabitants, half from our number.
(My idea for last member)
>Odd council member out is elected by the already elected council members from either group
>Council members vote on island policy towards outside groups, mediate disputes, things like that.
>Matters of great magnitude, such as decisions to attack other stalker groups and whether or not to accept large groups of migrants are to be decided by a popular vote
Shit we need to bring
that isn't regular BOB material
>Tools. We are likely going to need to either construct or modify structures to meet our needs. For this we will need some basic tools, like hammers, saws, things like that.
>Books. Survival books, medical books, books on boat building, power generation, chemistry, botany, agriculture, you name it. If SHTF is bad enough we will need to fend for ourselves for what could potentially be a long while. A point of contention is whether we should bother bringing works of cultural/historical significance. On the one hand, preserving our cultural heritage is a good thing, reminds us who we are, and gives us something to keep ourselves busy with in the dead of winter when fuck-all is going on. On the other hand books can be heavy, and we don't want to slow ourselves down with something that isn't going to contribute to our continued survival.
75d008 No.240
>>239
>This will likely take a few months
Actually, it'll take at MOST 2 weeks, if anything.
Remember, people do have cars, and takes 10-15 hours to get to Michigan Coast from East Coast.
What needs to happen is when shtf, while MidWest stalkers are meeting up and moving up Michigan coast to Beaver Island, the southern/eastern streloks are doing the same thing.
The thing is the MW stalkers will be in Beaver Island first before the other two groups (hopefully). Then by the time MW stalkers are already at Beaver Island and got some boats, Southern/Eastern Stalkers would've made their way to the Michigan coast or almost there, which we would designate certain town(s) to pick them up at.
But other than that, yeah, looks good.
Not what we have to do is meet up with local stalkers, and build trust/friendship, to make sure that we are going to group together when SHTF and not risk it.
d44323 No.243
>>239
You changed your name?
>>240
"we have cars" unless EMP/Nuke
"Midwest stalkers meet up" - I am playing with google earth and looking for something far from the sheeples mind.
>We need a location for Midwest. Innamountains
Anon makes a good point, We need to meet in person and build the trust.
Start planning /k/ Day (Holiday?)
75d008 No.244
>>243
>You changed your name?
Na, that Strelok decided to update the map himself, I've more or less stopped because it will keep delaying the next steps of our plan.
I'm Mapguy/Magpie, those are the names I've stuck with.
>unless EMP/Nuke
Stalker, it's not going to be those things.
It's going to be a currency/economic crash of very epic proportions.
And the Midwest Stalkers meetup has to be in IL, and it is distant from Chicago. We're not going to be there long, like 2-3 days tops.
It's there for most of everyone in MW to gather, then move towards Michigan. going innamountains makes no sense, it's not like we are going to stay there.
You're the Garfield stalker right? You're west, you guys already got a plan to get to RockyReach, don't throw off our plans mane.
And YOU meetup with your local stalkers. Not everyone all over the country meetup in one place. You familiarize/buddy up with the other stalkers in your state/area.
64db8e No.249
>>244
>Going on the roads in SHTF
>using something that can be heard literally miles away
>implying we will have access to gasoline
Maybe for country/logging roads but other than that I'm fucking walking dude. Maybe I would use a horse if I found one but other than that my feet will do just fine.
912a79 No.253
>>239
Another WI here. Rock county.
As for books we could bring, I have an idea. Every person should bring one non-survival book with them in their bug-out bag. Even if only there is one book per person, it could add up to a decent library quickly.
5095fc No.255
>>140
>the gubmint monitors this board
>theyve read this thread
>they have gathered intel and will anticipate these actions
>yfw they put a FEMA camp on Beaver island when SHTF
>yfw your boat is blown out of the water on horizon
64db8e No.256
>>253
>>253
Dude, we could just have the scavenging crews sent to the mainland to pickup some books. Also, who's going to bring the porn mags, we're going to need to address this sometime or another
64db8e No.257
Hey, what do you guys think of establishing an outpost on the mackinaw Bridge to Intercept Bandits and be a base for sending out scavenging crews. Also as a recruitment point, and as a magnet to Bandits but seeing how we have strategic advantages we can kill them easily and then loot their bodies and acquire shit.
Though I think it will be a while before infrastructure is built up enough to do this. however if your late to the party (halfway across the country) then it should be ready when you arrive.
75d008 No.258
>>249
>Going on the roads in SHTF
Yeah because going through the brush is so much easier rather than being "detected"
>using something that can be heard literally miles away
I don't think this matters at all when there's the rest of the country of screaming people and bustling cars.
>implying we will have access to gasoline
There will still be gas in our cars I reckon, it's going to "disappear". and plus, we can siphon if it gets that bad.
You can walk, but no one else is going to be waiting up on you or having themselves dragged behind by you if its your personal preference to walk. Finding a horse is not that easy, and can only get you so far before it needs to rest and feed. Good luck man
>>257
Look man, again?
There's no point. Why bother? And no, we're not "recruiting" anyone that isn't a full-chan /k/ommando. As a magnet to bandits? Why are you SEEKING problems?
>kill them easily and then loot their bodies and acquire shit
Dude, they're Americans too, we're not gonna be actively trying to kill and loot people ffs.
We are going to Beaver Island, and we scavenge from the coasts.
64db8e No.259
>>258
I'm not talking about 3 Minutes after shit happens I mean a few weeks after, you think they are gonna let you run around with a car and aren't gonna try and take it from you? I'm pretty sure this was covered in "War Of The Worlds" movie, Also Gasoline without preservative chemicals degrades over time, not to mention the Nigger roadblocks, they block the road, shoot people who drive up on them, along Major highways this is going to happen sometime or another.
And why would you turn down people that aren't /k/ommandoes, if they are willing able bodied Men and women that can help with the acquisition of food I don't see why you would ever turn them down unless space was starting to be an Issue, but the Island is big as fuck.
And I can see why you think Bandit traps are a bad Idea, they kinda are, but the thing is we lure them into a position to where they are strategically fucked and eliminate them as a threat before they pose a threat to the future.
And "they're Americans too", If they're shooting at me I don't care what nation they're from. Besides in a happening the biggest problem is almost always other Humans, we kill the bad ones and then take their things to be used for a good purpose, nothing wrong with that.
75d008 No.261
>>259
Look man, I respect your opinion and input, but:
The plan is to get to Beaver Island as soon as SHTF, so idk why "a few weeks later" kinda matters when by a few weeks later, most if not all of the stalkers heading to Beaver Island won't already be there or right about almost there.
> I'm pretty sure this was covered in "War Of The Worlds" movie
Yeah, except that was ayy lmaos using a super powerful fictional space-emp that was strong enough to kill all cars, that's why people needed them. And it was to run away from the ayy lmaos shooting at them and the fact that there were no cars.
This is a completely different and otherwise more realistic scenario that is going to happen we're talking about here.
If major highways are blocked by bumper-to-bumper cars, there are many other roads we can use. In the first couple days, you're not going to see that organized of gangs/bandits putting traps/roadblocks on roads to loot when the whole country is still ripe for looting. Maybe in 1-2 months, but that's still a maybe.
There's a reason why we are not having anyone else on any other board/chan in on our plan, and it's simple: More people, more problems. There's just greater chance for people to turn on each other or otherwise not coincide with what the plan is and eventually rek it for everyone else. We are got each other and our families, that is enough if we trust each other.
Again, why try to loot bandits and such? I understand the whole "get them before they get us" idea, but we are going to be on AN ISLAND, and 80% of everyone either doesn't know it exists or doesn't care because there would be no real point in getting to us in the short-term. In the long-term yeah maybe, but we will be prepared and ready for such situations, once we are established on the island.
And I understand that humans are the biggest problem in the happening, I agree with you fully on that. There is no "good" or "bad" for most of the country when SHTF. The "good" people will shoot at you if they have to, as well as much as the "bad" ones. But why waste resources/time/effort on attacking others or otherwise seeking trouble?
Our goal is SURVIVAL, not CONQUEST. We lay low, stay on our island, and go out to the coasts to get what we need if need be. If we encounter problems/conflicts, we will take care of it, that's when you can satisfy your bloodlust, okay strelok?
75d008 No.263
>>255
I actually feared/fear this too.
But honestly, this /wrol/ board is fairly secluded, and it'll be too much resources to be doing that.
They already have their FEMA camp locations and they're going to be mostly abandoned/re-utilized wal-marts.
But if that shit happened in which they decided to construct such a trap, which very very very slight chance in happening, then lol GG.
64db8e No.292
>>261
Nigga that place is so far for most of us that its gonna take a while getting there, more than a few weeks to get there, Months at best.
When the Gas in people car's run out they're gonna get tired of walking and will try and get another car.
true you can use other raods, but by the time you see the nigguhs blocking the road they're gonna start shooting at you, and by that time its probably too late. And not all Nigs are in the cities, and Like I said it will take months to get there so even if it takes two months for them to clear the cities we will encounter them on the way there.
Oh don't get the wrong Idea, I don't plan on killing the bandits early on, I mean after we have secured enough food that we don't have to dedicate 90% of our time to gathering it. True it would be hard for them to get us if we're on an Island but its not impossible, the Islands length is 16 Miles and has quite a bit of coastline, it wouldn't take much for a small boat to land, go hide in the woods, kill everyone at night.
We will be able to differentiate in my plan:
>sign that says "guns down, hands up or fuck off"
>people come up doing neither of those
>get shot
Something along those lines.
Survival yes, but the ultimate goal is not to survive but thrive, populate the Island then the surrounding Islands, then the Mainland.
It's not bloodlust that fuels me, its just the Idea of drawing later problems into an area when you can eliminate them.
64db8e No.309
what the fuck is going on on trout Island, that huge clearing wasn't there a few days ago I think.
https://www.google.com/maps/@45.7728979,-85.6897963,555m/data=!3m1!1e3
64db8e No.310
>>309
looking at it I see untitled trails and one house…
Illuminarti secret base confirmed?
but seriously somethings going on, construction?
75d008 No.320
>>309
Na i've already seen that when we first proposed Beaver Island weeks ago.
I thought it was odd.
Looks like they might set up another airstrip there.
64db8e No.323
>>320
well if they build more houses that's good if they build a few before shtf happens, then we can have two islands
a9e77a No.331
Just out of curiosity…
Now I'm not a Michfag or even in range of Lake Michigan, but my question is how does this expedition party plan of dealing with the US Coast Guard, the Charlevoix County Sheriff Dept, Michigan DNR Rangers, CMU Biological Station personnel and 244 full-time residents that may not want you setting up shop on their island?
06cd5f No.332
>>331
We are going to peacefully cooperate with the residents, and when we move the gov't will have bigger fish to fry. We wish no harm on anyone.
a9e77a No.333
>>332
I'm not looking to be a Debbie Downer or crash a parade here, but these are just things that need to be contemplated before hand.
You're assuming the residents would be willing to let you stay. What would you do if the local city counsels told you to drag ass?
Government isn't just a single entity, it has layers. Just because you think one layer has no interest, doesn't mean others haven't as well. You're also assuming that other forms of governance haven't been established as well.
75d008 No.335
>>331
>>333
It's simple: Strength in numbers.
And plus, we good people. We're not niggers or degenerates. Usually in everyday life we are already "the good kid/guy".
We will be a sizable group, and ontop of that, we can state that what choice do they have?
Either keep a bunch of armed, respectful, good-hearted young Americans and their families away, or kick them and suffer the re-precautions of them being angry and the rest of the country of people who are not as nice or willing to cooperate and protect their home.
64db8e No.336
>>333
if they see we mean to help and survive and such they would have no real reason to kick us out and if they try, we'll be having guns= were calling the shots fucko I'd rather not do this but if they give us no choice were going to force them into involuntarily cooperation.
>>335
this pretty much, they'd be retards to kick us out but if they do it's because of the stormfags getting there first trying set up "muh furth reik"
75d008 No.337
>>336
>because of the stormfags getting there first trying set up "muh furth reik"
Are you telling me someone told /pol/ or Stormfront about our plans?? ffs why
64db8e No.339
>>337
Not to my knowledge, but many people on /k/ also go on /pol/.
the guy in Tennessee is a huge stormfag Everyone near me is a pretty big faget too
64db8e No.341
>>337
but yeah, if we get there any hardcore stormfag is gonna get snuffed.
75d008 No.342
>>339
Ah, okay.
>>341
Agreed.
We still haven't determined the main rendezvous point yet. I'm not assuming we all just head to Beaver as soon as shtf
64db8e No.343
>>342
I'd suggest good hart village or something (look on google maps) maybe even on some fucking watchtower or some shit.
use that shit and you can get creative with shit, maybe have it in a forest or something.
64db8e No.344
>>343
>>342
https://www.google.com/maps/@45.764019,-85.06766,555m/data=!3m1!1e3
waugoshance Island is a good example, its not really an island, more of a peninsula or point.
75d008 No.345
>>344
Nice, but I'm talking about a place everyone meets up and gathers before heading to Beaver.
Alot of us are in IL and Southern WI
64db8e No.346
>>345
true, but you don't want to wait around while being right next to nigcago, besides this will make it somewhat easier for NY and Cape Fags.
a9e77a No.350
>>335
>>336
Not everyone shares that logic and a group regardless of how nice and helpful they are, can be seen as an invasion into their community. Not everyone thinks like you. This country hosts large swathes of retards, look at California.
The map on this thread is from 1971, if you look at a recent map or satellite imagery homes have been established. CMU alone owns 310 acres of the island and who knows who owns what land wise.
What's your force size? There are 244 permanent residents on the island (who knows how many people have vacation/summer homes there), even if 10% are armed, that's 25+ people you have to contend with. You also do realize this isn't a small island, you'd need a platoon size unit to just secure all the landing point.
So lets say they refuse, you guys force them into involuntary participation. Now you've got a large contingent of people that view you as an enemy and occupying force. They're not going to take that lying down.
What prevents one or more from escaping and going to an authority, like the Coast Guard? You want to take on a Coast Guard? Or worse?
You're inviting a situation you won't be able to sustain. You're only hope is that they allow you to stay and even then, it may be under their terms. You shouldn't be putting all your eggs into a single basket. Starting a protracted occupation and forced participation, that WILL end in serious loss of life and the eventual collapse of your plans isn't a good way to go about things. If the folks of Beaver Island turn you away, you need an alternative location, and even then you need subsequent locations (what if some shit goes down and Beaver Island is bombed into oblivion or quarantined).
64db8e No.354
>>350
this is assuming every single one of them thinks the same, some will not want us (liberals lol) and the others will probably welcome us and/or tolerate us.
If they want us to leave we'll just say we want to survive there and live self sustainment, if we bring our families I'm sure they wouldn't just say "bye lol". And with all the empty vacation houses space won't be an issue, then we tell them that we'll be their security among help them with things.
If any of them try to leave (let alone want us to) then we going to be using self defense if they try and forcibly kick us out.
a9e77a No.358
>>354
One doesn't have to be of liberal mind to distrust or refuse people the access or use of land. If an armed group came to my neighborhood and said “we're here to stay”, I'd have serious misgivings about it. I'm also of the mindset that if you didn't have the foresight to prepare, that's tough shit for you and if you try to take what I have, you will die trying to do so.
You wouldn't be viewed as welcomed relief. You'd be seen as more mouths to feed, more voices around an already crowded table, and most of all, a possible threat. Talk is cheap, action is what people want to see, but the risk is often to great to allow it.
You're assuming whatever happens doesn't occur in the dead middle of a vacation season or that the owners of those vacant homes don't show up at some point because they had a similar idea about the island being a safe and sustainable place to survive.
Self-defense is a legal term, what you'd be doing is attacking a group of people because you want what they have and they don't want to surrender it over. Then you'd be imprisoning them. Don't try to sugarcoat it because you have moral qualms about it. You're also not a heavily armed force, the most you could muster is rifles/shotguns, maybe, and it's a stretch you'll have some automatics among the group, with some homemade explosives. You'll have no air, no ass, no arty, nothing, but what you carried with you. These people, will be defending their homes. They know the terrain, they know the area. Do you know why most rebel/insurgent forces are victorious? Because it's their homes and villages that they're defending, it's their lives someone has come and fucked up.
Those people have families too and in their minds that is what will come first. Bringing your family into a situation that has the potential to end in violence is a really bad idea and trailing a family around completely destroys any tactical advantage you may have had. This is what reconnaissance and intelligence gathering exists. You leave your non-combatants at a safe point and send out recon and intel-gathering teams.
Like I said, putting all you eggs in a single basket is asking for trouble. You need alternative locations.
64db8e No.360
>>358
well there are like 10 other nearby islands, true they don't have any pre-built housing and barely anything other than trees, from there we could regroup and gather enough boats to take Beaver island by force.
>One doesn't have to be of liberal mind to distrust or refuse people the access or use of land. If an armed group came to my neighborhood and said “we're here to stay”, I'd have serious misgivings about it. I'm also of the mindset that if you didn't have the foresight to prepare, that's tough shit for you and if you try to take what I have, you will die trying to do so.
I don't think thats how we will propose it, it will be more like:
>hello we just went through some tough shit so is it okay if we live here and in return we offer protection and will help out with farming and everything else
The goal is to be friendly with the natives and convince them they'll die without you then at that point you can go full Stalin and they won't throw you away.
We will send out scavenging parties and help out with fishing/farming, I'm (hopefully) bringing my little brother along, he's only 14 and I fucking caught him browsing /a/, and the people there from looking it up are mostly culturally Irish people so they probably won't be too hostile.
This is true, those vacation homes do however )usually) have enough room for 15 people, I've been in one, people may not like that idea but I'm sure some generous people wouldn't mind letting us stay in there for a few days then to another house.
>want what they have
We want a place where there aren't dindus shooting at us and we can live peaceably and in empty houses, "xd lol ur a problem, you and your family should starve in the open waste", yeah It would technically be that but it would be justified because in all honesty, if a group is thinking like that they're gonna die sooner or later. Although in all honesty the chance of them trying that is very low, at worst they might not like it we're there but can't consciously kick us out.
It's BECAUSE of bringing our families into that situation that violence won't occur, unless a cannibal Rapelord assumes control of the island I can't see them open firing on women and children.
I agree with that though, however if you looked at beaver island through google earth you'll there's a fuckton of other Islands near it we can build on.
a9e77a No.364
>>360
I did notice some others around the lake. Always useful as outposts too.
Well, I was putting an extreme on it, but I really do think one of your biggest issues will probably be an overzealous and irritable strelok who's tried of walking and wants to just have a home. People get weary and numb from travelling and they can get really pushy.
I do fully agree though, that without outside help that most the folks of Beaver Island probably won't last long.
I'm leary about including family. I mean, men is one thing, but women and children. All it takes is one psycho who loses it over having "someone" trying to take what's his/hers and things could go up like a tinderbox.
I assume you guys plan on having a ham radio at least. Be really awesome to have a network we can pass info along to other encampments and posts. A place on the dial that fellow travelling sterlok can listen tune into and listen.
I was being pushy a bit but, I like ensuring good people have solid plans and contingencies.
64db8e No.365
>>364
there will be stops along the way (see southern strelok meetup thread), and it will take a few months to get there and 1/3 of the time spent at meetups, and if you do the ham radio I know nothing about them they will be extra motivated to go, and we can handle domestic issues through ways kindergarten teachers do, if its something like "she stole my rations after they got distributed!" thats when we investigate and do shit.
64db8e No.409
>>149
can't we put a bit of charcoal in it to make steel?
>>364
hmm, do you think you could make the Ham radio signal go for a few Miles so we could Perhaps leave Banners around on the Mainland with the frequency on them so we could communicate with people frequently?
64db8e No.413
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnCXNa6262E
How about putting an outpost there?
also board owner allow embedded fuck.
a9e77a No.414
>>409
If you want quality steel, you need coke. Charcoal is a composition of pressed coal dust, can contain impurities, and may not have the carbon content to withstand overburdening. Coking coal is a byproduct of Bituminous coal and is used because it's a very high quality and has a high carbon content (80%-89%). If you want uber quality, you need coke from Anthracite (91%-95% carbon content), but good luck finding and affording any. We had serious reserves in the 50's, but mined most of it and what is left is under Strategic Reserve control. (Most of our Anthracite was/is mined in Pennsylvania and Virginia)
That's simple, decent antenna and someone listening is all you really need.
64db8e No.428
>>414
I used to live in an Area of Pennsylvania that had a fuckton of anthracite coal lying around, I think I still have a few mementos of that shit from when I lived there. but it's not all that much.
a9e77a No.429
>>428
If you can make a visit or know someone still there, you should get as much as possible, just to have.
Anthracite supply compared to other coal types supply is so small, it's crazy.
You can see the little dots in Pennsylvania, Virginia, and one in West Virginia (some states down south has some anthracite mines, but nothing serious) that make up anthracite. Everything else is a form of bituminous or lignite.
64db8e No.431
>>429
Maybe I'll nab a few pieces when i go to visit family, they look really fucking cool and I showed it to my friends when I left PA when I was 12, now I'm 23, but seriously I remember finding coal in the goddamn yard the size of rocks, along the train tracks we'd sometime find huge lumps that fell off the trains, Hell in Harrisburg near where I lived there was a fucking hill covered in the shit, a fucking black hill you could see on the horizon, no one wanted the shit so fucking rednecks came up in pickup trucks and put a bunch of it in garbage bags and heated their house with it.
Coal is somewhat radioactive so living in that area means I'm probably going to get cancer sometime in my life, my mother has cancer right now probably because of the shit. No shit the former coal mining towns have an insane amount of people with cancer.
Anthracite best coalfu
a9e77a No.435
>>431
At the very least it could be used as a trade item or burned for warmth in a serious emergency.
Meh, just another thing in the long line of things that can contribute to cancer. People out in the south west have a higher disposition for cancer because of all the weapons testing out there.
64db8e No.439
>>435
I don't really think many people would trade food for it though lol, I mean unless you have an industrial plant or something it's pretty much useless.
a9e77a No.443
>>439
Coal burning or a multi-fuel stove, of which there are lots of both in northern states.
Smiths would have serious interests in it.
64db8e No.444
>>443
1# how many smiths do you think there will be?
2# I can only take so much of that shit in my pack lol.
a9e77a No.446
>>444
I think there'll be enough. People will have to rely on skill to get what they need. Besides you may have an novice or intermediate smith in the group.
Bring what you can, you'd be surprised at the uses that coal has. At minimum a smith can use it as a carbon booster to add with bituminous coal found locally.
64db8e No.452
>>446
True, but I might only bring a little for show and tell, other than that I don't want to be weighed down by that shit, it's heavy.
64db8e No.467
I propose we cut down all the trees on the northeast cap and Build a fort/ Operations base there and/or put safer housing there if security starts to become an issue, maybe barracks of a kind and storehouses of course, after most of the trees are felled it would be good to dig a moat and use the trees chopped down to make staked walls
https://www.google.com/maps/@45.7488909,-85.5009616,2221m/data=!3m1!1e3
64db8e No.494
has anyone noticed /wrol/ has been getting lower traffic?
Don't die on me
707c6b No.504
I'm sure this was brought up, but I don't think the people that live on the island are going to be very keen on boats of men with guns coming over. Are we building our own homes or what? I doubt locals would just invite us in.
707c6b No.505
>>504
I'm a retard that didn't read. If we take a small island full of trees, you better fucking do it around this time of year, unless we all want to die of exposure.
4f5438 No.507
>>140
Just found /wrol/ and was liking what I saw, except why all the /pol/ hate?
About this Beaver Island idea. A few concerns I had were: 1.) These people are a tight knit community. They are also not a bunch of no-gun hipsters living in the middle of a lake. They will know their surroundings very well. They will be prepared. They will not voluntarily accept outsiders.
2.) Trading/ Bartering will be very prevalent after the collapse and this island basically leaves you out of the loop. It will be hard to keep your finger on the pulse of your surroundings when you are isolating yourself so much.
On that note: Ohio carpenter here, if you're accepting /pol/tards.
64db8e No.508
>>504
wow did you read nothing on this board at all lol? Besides most of the houses there are vacation houses people rent out for a week or stay in for a weekend but don't really live in, there's a few permanent residents but most of the houses will be empty, even so the goal is not to control the people there but to work with them.
>>507
I guess if your not a stormfag it's okay, but seriously aren't taking any chances with the stormfags, we don't need some faggot open firing on nigs while were trying to sneak past them.
We'll have boats so we can trade with the mainland, and the whole point of it being on an island is that nigs don't just walk up on you.
707c6b No.509
>>508
I corrected myself >>505
a9e77a No.518
>>507
Any location is going to have locals, unless it's uninhabited, undomesticated woodlands or plains and even then it's going to be under the control and ownership of some governing body.
The island provides a buffer. The last place you want to be is flush with goodies and at the mercy of others. It won't matter have many rifles you have, the numbers alone would crush you.
The idea is to act as "grey men", blend in, have a paltry amount to trade/barter.
Most of this has been discussed in this very thread, as well as others.
64db8e No.527
Guys how much infrastructure should we put into the Radio? I mean 333 plan is good but if we get more electricity we can turn it into a 444 or more, Also Beaver is about 19 Miles from the Mainland, A raft can make it that distance right? So we should have no problem using Viking looking longboats or something like that, maybe with motors or something, looking from google maps the boats there look like they wouldn't be too much trouble rowing with 6 guys on board.
Does anyone know how to rig up a sail?
>>518
why would we need to blend in? Isn't the purpose to build up the Island and turn it into a fortress?
a9e77a No.531
>>527
The island isn't what you're trying to conceal. I was speaking about when anyone leaves the island to trade, forge, scavenge, ect.. you the play "grey man", the guy who looks like everyone else. Going out like a stormtrooper will attract unwanted attention and lots of it.
4abf04 No.536
>>431
>>429
>>414
[nervously Alaskas]
Up here we have so much fucking coal its painful. I remember doing the math and we had something like 5% of the entire world's supply of coal. Its not even spread out its all in a few mountain ranges. A great portion of it is anthracite but those deposits already have mines on top of them.
64db8e No.540
>>536
poor alaskafag, if shtf life will go on as normal except no chans.
64db8e No.578
>>531
I don't think that'll matter when motherfuckers open fire on everyone they see, (referring the Balkan shtf cap). Infact I believe we should help restore some sort of Order on the Mainland once we get order established on Beaver.
tl;dr I am the One who Knocks
a9e77a No.581
>>578
The Balkans wasn't a genuine SHTF scenario, it was a warzone. The world was still a functioning entity, the Balkans was just getting it shit pounded as the rest of the world looked on.
Once the initial die off occurs in the beginning, there will be an intermittent period of relative calmness. That's the period I'm talking about.
During the initial stages of a legitimate SHTF scenario, you should be no where near anyone except those you plan to GTFO of Dodge with.
Demeanor and dress will matter most. If you go down the road dressed like you're a walking Crye Precision commercial…you're going to be killed, stripped of your kit, and left for wildlife.
Versus a guy walking down the road dress in jeans/cargo pants, wearing a hoodie, plate carrier, and carrying a rifle. You pose less of a threat and don't draw unwanted attention.
While forward thinking is always a good idea, I wouldn't make the assumption of there being any way to establish order outside of what we establish. You're talking about taking on what's left of a heavily armed populace of 330,000,000. The military/gov't will be busy doing far more "important" missions than rooting out Rape Lords and Fiend Colonies. However, if a Strelok feels they can establish a form of order in the Mainland, they can do as they wish.
64db8e No.634
>>581
I meant for the cities it would be like balkans and the surrounding areas.
a9e77a No.642
>>634
It'll be more like Hue, than the Balkans. If you're in a city post-SHTF, you're just fucked.
IF you want a good read on urban combat doctrine and policy, look into "Forests of Steel - Modern City Combat From the War in Vietnam to the Battle for Iraq" by Col. John Antal and Ltc. Bradley Gericke
If you want a good indicator of how cities will turn out in SHTF, look into the 67'-68' Detroit Riots.
Pictures are of the Michigan National Guard and 82nd Airborne Division in Detroit in 67'-68'. In 67' alone, during the "12th Street Riot", the Guard alone expended over 150,00 rounds over five days time. Stories of tank crews engaging with the maingun, taking out buildings.
06cd5f No.654
>>536
>All 7 Alas/k/ans get together, pooling their resources.
>Most vehicles having long run out of gas, they find a moose and yoke it to a cart
>After weeks of trekking through the wilderness, they finally make it to the mountains
>For maximum concealability, they eschew surface structures, preferring to adapt caves (or in extreme cases, excavate)
>Now with beards as long as their knees, they found their new society
>we Dwarf Fortress now
abf999 No.693
>>140
>Carpentry / blacksmithing?
I can forge you a rasps and draw shaves if you need them
>>409
>can't we put a bit of charcoal in it to make steel?
Making blister steel would be much easier.
>>414
>If you want quality steel, you need coke.
No you don't. People have used charcoal for thousands of years and have made quality steel. The type of heat doesn't even matter, you could case harden iron with a simple campfire. Furthermore I can buy a 45lb bag of anthracite for $5 and I live in northern new york, too bad anthracite isn't the best for blacksmithing, it doesn't even coke up.
I'm sorry to say this but I don't think you know what you're talking about.
a9e77a No.694
>>693
>No you don't. People have used charcoal for thousands of years and have made quality steel.
"Quality steel" is a subjective term.
I was speaking of charcoal briqettes which are blend compressed coal bricks, often mixed with an accelerant and other imputities.
Charcoal made from legitimate coal is a different horse altogether.
>The type of heat doesn't even matter, you could case harden iron with a simple campfire.
That is totally dependant on the smith. I know smiths that swear by a hot burning coal with a high carbon content, like anthacite.
My knowledge and experince is involving the use of 41xx Chomoly and 500. Steels used in firearm parts, aircraft parts, armor, ect…
>Furthermore I can buy a 45lb bag of anthracite for $5 and I live in northern new york, too bad anthracite isn't the best for blacksmithing, it doesn't even coke up.
Neighboring PA does have benefits, with them having a large portion of the anthracite in the US. For those not neighboring PA or VA, that would be a special order at around $8-$10 with added tax and shipping costs, but that is neither here, nor there. The average Strelok looking to isn't going to invest in a 45lb bag of coal, even at $5 unless they're a serious smith or have a coal stove. I myself haven't had to deal with NY prices on fuels for more than 15 years and I don't burn coal.
I'm not a smith, but I've seen anthacite used with great effect. To each his own.
>I'm sorry to say this but I don't think you know what you're talking about.
That is a realistic possability, I'm not a smith, nor do I forge metals. Like I said, my metalurgic knowledge and experinces revolve around 41XX Chromoly, 6061 Aluminum, 500 Steel and various isotopic metals.
Not everyone shares the same "Common Core" experinces, that's why discuss, debate, and converse. Everyone has varying opinions and positions, not everyone is going to share the same ideas or experinces.
abf999 No.695
>>694
Charcoal is made from wood, coke is made from coal.
>That is totally dependant on the smith. I know smiths that swear by a hot burning coal with a high carbon content, like anthacite.
To turn iron into steel, at least using low tech traditional methods you need to heat the wrought iron up in an oxygen free, carbon rich enviroment. This can be done using a clay box filled with fire or bone surrounding the iron. This box needs to be kept at high temperatures to allow the metal to absorb carbon.
In fact the very idea that you'd have to make steel or metal at all is ludicrous, there are cars, trucks, junk everywhere. Why go through the hours and hours, days and days or effort and labor to produce a few pounds of steel when you can scavenge hundreds of pounds of medium to high carbon steel from the average car?
>41xx Chomoly and 500.
I'm not a fan, when being forged they can give off some very noxious fumes and they have some very odd forging characteristics. Much better than air hardening shit like S7 though.
>I'm not a smith, but I've seen anthacite used with great effect. To each his own.
I've used it and it burns much hotter than bituminous, but it doesn't coke up which leads to serious problems especially if you need to move your work piece at all.
>aluminum
Did you know that you can use a sharpie to determine when it's annealed? When it is the correct temperature the sharpie mark will disappear.
> I'm not a smith, nor do I forge metals
It's honestly not that hard. Look at it this way, africans have been working iron for almost 2000 years and for most of that time they've been using a hole in the grand and rocks as their main tools. I'm sure I could teach you guys a thing or two.
a9e77a No.696
>>695
I'm always willing to learn something, especially if it's interesting.
64db8e No.699
>>695
Are you the smith that posted on /his/?
And yes I asked the same question to the amith there about here.
64db8e No.700
We need to come up with ways to get sulfure and saltpeter, I'm sure we can make pipe cannon batteries to sink any incoming enemy vessel.
abf999 No.701
>>696
Well if you guys have a question related to metalworking I can help.
64db8e No.703
>>701
Assuming WROL you wouldn't bw able to lug around an anvil so how hard would it to make a make shift anvil?
64db8e No.704
So guys would it be possible to go polynesian and just attach two canoea together and build a structure on top of them? I mean for the short 4 hours it takes to get to the mainland it would be worth it. Also any ideas on how to build sails on these rafts that will work?
abf999 No.705
>>703
>>703
Anvils are probably the hardest thing to obtain when getting started because they are quite expensive. However juryrigging an anvil isn't hard. People have using rocks and even stumps for thousands of years. They however don't last very long for obvious reasons.
Anvils are at their most basic just heavy things that you hammer on. Railroad rail is a popular choose because it can cut into manageable pieces, is somewhat plentiful and have a high carbon content. However, you could just bolt or affix a leafspring or another flat peice of somewhat thick metal to a stump if you were desperate for a striking surface.
In the middle east and africa the popular style of anvil is a spike anvil. Which is just what it sounds like, a very large spike with a flat head, they are maybe 4" square on the head and tapers down significantly so that it can be pounded into the ground.
But if you are really desperate or wish for something ultra portable, you can always use a sledge hammer head, while it is a very small work surface and a little bit unstable; you can carry it in your pocket or in a backpack easily.
Another major problem will be fuel. Wood works but it isn't optimal since you'll find it extremely hard to reach welding temperatures or even weld because of the impurities and water within wood. Charcoal is almost pure carbon and is extremely clean burning and almost completely sulpher free.
Because you plan on living in the wilderness with extreme privation, being able to weld is vital. Being able to repair a broken runner on a sled, welding chains together, or making all the various tools you'll need such as froes, axes, picks, etc, is vital because things break and I doubt you'd be able to find all the tools that made life livable 200 years ago just laying around.
Using an open fire to produce charcoal is very inefficient and all that oxygen turns the wood to ash. However there are easy ways and hard ways of producing vast amounts of it.
The easy way involves starting a fire in a steel barrel and then filling it with wood. After the fire is good and ready you then place a lid over the top, leaving just a small amount open so it still smolders. After a few hours you should have a barrel filled with charcoal.
The traditional way is to dig a pit, stack wood in the pit and then cover the wood with branches and then dirt. The wood would then be light through a hole and it would then eventually burn down. They still do this in 3rd world countries. The problem is that the charcoal can come into contact with water which isn't desirable.
436fc6 No.830
What about Manitou island? It's uninhabited so we won't have to worry about locals, and game animals would be more abundant. Also bonus points for having the largest lake within a lake.
ec241b No.831
>>830
Except were going to try and cooperate with the Locals, it would be much better to spend the Winter in a nice Cozy Yuppie house than in some makeshift igloo that would probably fail.
436fc6 No.965
>>507
> They will know their surroundings very well. They will be prepared. They will not voluntarily accept outsiders.
This why I suggested Manitou island. It's uninhabited,
436fc6 No.981
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>831
How hard would it be for a group of people to build a few of these?
498efe No.983
>>981
there like a high speed version that shows him build a mudd hut from nothing. the finished product had a wooden cot and a fire place and woven mud walls.
498efe No.984
>>983
but it took him 6 months to build it in his spare time.
436fc6 No.985
>>984
That's one man doing it on his time off. A dozen or so people working non stop could get it done in under a month.
498efe No.986
>>985
thats why i added the 6 months spare time ±:P
ae40b8 No.998
The locals are savvy. Most of them grew up running around in the forest, hunting and fishing. There is limited industry and beautiful land in the region, and the people who live there know the land well.
>>331
>>350
I'm reading 500 off the US census.
>>148
>>149
I doubt there's iron on the island. I'd guess the name comes from the island being a stop on the Minnesota-Chicago shipping line. Even today, with much less Mid-western industry, you see ore ships passing along the coast.
>>239
Don't write off the water passage. Sometimes the water is flat, but it can rise pretty high at times. It may not be possible in a shoddily made boat/raft.
>>830
North and South Manitou both have some boarded-up old buildings, a small village on each from before the national park.
>>153
(The next bit is about the land between Ludington and Charlevoix, including Manitou. I think that Beaver and the nearest coast has a shorter growing season.)
There are a number of farms that do alright. However, the landscape is rolling, wooded and hilly landscape, and the soil is sandy, with less nutrients than the topsoil further south. Not suitable for large-scale staple crops. Fruits grow well, because Lake Michigan moderates the temperature of the east-ward flowing wind. There are apples, cherries, plums, blueberries, and wild-growing bramble-berries. Unfortunately, none of these grow on yearly cycles. Wild asparagus grows, which does go on a yearly cycle. Also, chicken of the woods.
436fc6 No.999
436fc6 No.1000
>>986
I wasn't disagreeing.
436fc6 No.1001
>>831
Also the islanders may not want refugees, even if were not bandits.
3f47e1 No.1010
I'd say that my carpentry skills are decent. I came from the Midwest Plan thread cause we may head up. I can construct any more shelters needed and help work out a plan for sending teams mainland for supplies.