/wrol/ - Without rule of law, or shtf.

>>355

>mfw I see theres a nuclear factory a few miles south of it

when happening happens its annu cheeki breeki time over on thief neck.

Well if we travel up the rivers were gonna have to ditch the boat around st Louis then go right the fuck around the city, and there are lots of dams so…

>>356

You'd be hard pressed to find a location not within range of a an industrial or weapons facility. Thief Neck Island is in immediate range of two, Watts Bar Generating Facility and Oakridge Labs.

I'm sitting within range of two facilities, the Paducah Gaseous Diffusion Plant and Blue Grass Army Depot.

>>378

Then start looking for another location.

rule number one, if you think a location sucks then you must suggest another one.

>>384

You're not going to find a location that won't be affected.

There are 104 active commercial reactors in the US. Also a number of experimental reactors at universities and facilities, then you have various national labs such as Livermore, Oakridge, Sandia, ect… training reactors such as Knolls Atomic Power School, nuclear waste storage facilities like WIPP and Yucca Mountain, nuclear weapons depots, production facilities like Hanford and Savannah River, enrichment facilities such as Paduach Gaseous Diffusion Plant, assembly facilities such as PANTEX, 450 silos housing LGM-30 ICBMs, vessels powered by reactors, subs carrying UGM-133 Trident SLBMs and nuclear TLAM; and that's just nuclear threats.

You have various weapons depot housing chemical and biological stockpiles of unitary agents (meaning they're mixed and degrading) like Blue Grass Army Depot and Anniston Chemical Activity, labs such as Ft. Dietrich and Plumb Island. That covers just weapons grade agents.

You also have industrial facilities across the nation storing, producing, and utilizing Toxic Industrial Chemicals and Toxic Industrial Materials (TIC/TIM).

Then you also have rail or road traffic that transports all of the above.

In the event of a "habbening" scenario, these materials don't just disappear or go away, they sit in casks on highways, in their storage containers at depots, ect… as time passes their storage containers deteriorate and become structurally compromised. Every few years, at the Blue Grass Depot they have a Sulfur Mustard (akak Mustard Gas) leak, the agent eats through its storage container and begins to contain the air (that's just Mustard, there are untold amounts of VX, Sarin, Tabun, ect…). The WIPP had a serious accident where the radioisotopes stored had a chain reaction with the clay granulates used to pack it. It resulted in a catastrophic release of radioactive materials.

Take a look into the amount of nuclear and industrial accidents over the past 100 years, such as the PG&E scandal, Bopal disaster, Chernobyl, ect… all accidents that occurred while society was fully functioning and facility operating parameters where normal. Now imagine that no one is there to monitor or maintain those facilities, keeping them in good working order.

Industrial accidents aren't a local scale disaster, they're regional. If the Watts Bar Generating Facility had a meltdown, it wouldn't just affect the immediate area, it would affect the entire state of Tennessee and neighboring states.

This isn't even taking into account the possibility of unconventional attacks against the US, be they terror or military. Entire swaths of the US could be rendered uninhabitable. Don't doubt it either, if the US suffered a catastrophic economic or societal breakdown, an aggressor would see it as the perfect time to attack, thus plunging the country into further turmoil.

>>388

well shit,

Will it affect the entire nation and/or go away after a few weeks?

>>394

It's all scenario dependant. Commercial and military reactors will SCRAM on their own by design, but that doesn't mean there can't be an accident or failure. Fukushima utilized Second Generation GE and Westinghouse Pressure Boil Reactors like most commercial reactors in the US.

Chernobyl was an experimental Graphite reactor the Soviets pressed into commercial use. During an experiment a series of operator failures and system failures resulted in an automatic SCRAM (SCRAM is a term for immediate shut down and storing of rods in their container to reduce the ongoing reaction). The rods at the Chernobyl plant where SCRAM'd, but were still reacting and went critical, melting through their containment vessel, through the exterior cooling lines causing two massive steam explosion, and into a concrete catch pool. Then proceeded to melt through the concrete of the catch pool and onto the ground floor of the reactor housing. To this day, the radioactive slurry of boron, salts, and radioactive fuel sit red hot at the bottom of rector.

The explosions resulted in the release of radioactive material that affected most of Western Europe in some way. In the immediate area, Ukraine, Belarus and parts of Russia. However, the Soviets had kept the disaster under their hats. It wasn't until a nuclear facility in Sweden detected extremely high amounts of contamination during routine monitoring. Once it was determined it wasn't a leak at the facility or any Swedish facilities; NATO, NRC, and IAEA were informed and monitoring of Europe was begun.

In the immediate area of the facility, you're going to have thousands of radioisotopes present, some only lasting for seconds others for minutes and still more for days. The worst last for months or years, Strontium-90, Ceasium-137, ect… the explosion at Chernobyl caused a radioactive plume to be thrust into the atmosphere and caused radioactive material to be carried across Europe by wind and it contaminated crops, food, water, livestock, ect…

Fukashima had a similar scenario play out, but the cause wasn't operator failure and poor design. The flooding of the facility caused failure of reserve water pumps for cooling systems and the storing of spent fuel on site caused further release of radioactive materials. The rods were SCRAM'd, but failed to stop the reaction, causing a meltdown and breach of the containment vessel. However, the reactor housing contained much of the resulting melted fuel. The release of hydrogen into the reactor housing caused a violent reaction with oxygen, thus resulting in an enormous explosion, releasing large amounts of radioactive material, damaging the spent fuel pond, throwing fractured fuel rods all over the place. The resulting fractured rods allowed the release of fuel pellets (MOX fuel pellets, a Uranium-Weapons Grade Plutonium Fuel Mixture) to be scattered over the surround area and were buried in the local area.

The affect and impact Fukushima had, not only on Japan, but the world was very damaging. In the US alone, background radiation rose, the West coast saw an major increased in post-rain monitoring levels, the fishing was heavily affected because of the contamination of ocean waters. Alaska has been continuously monitoring its bays and harbours seeing increased levels of radioactivity in fish, sea life, driftwood, ect…

Both Chernobyl and Fukushima are surrounded by expansive "Exclusion Zones". The zones are rout with lethal pockets of radiation, mutated wildlife and plant life. For example, around Chernobyl some of the local conifer (pine trees) glow red at night, military patrols have reported seeing mutated wild horses and dogs. Feral animals in the zone are rampant. Nothing growing in the zone is edible, the radiation levels are too high, same with water.

>>394

Con't

Chemical Weapons or Toxic Industrial Chemicals/Toxic Industrial Materials will have an immediate effect, but their long standing effects are residues left behind on surfaces, pools/slow leaks of agent/material, contaminated water/food and pockets of an agent/material in low lying or low oxygen environments.

Biological agents will be the worst. They follow an entirely different path of contamination and residual affect. Agents are kept froze and in cold environments to prevent growth. They can survive in room temperature outside a controlled environment or host for a short time, but they can spread by simply mutating or infecting a host, like a rat or squirrel. Once the host brings the agent into population, the agent can spread as it wishes. Some people may be naturally immune, but most won't be. The idea behind a weaponized biological agent is a short incubation period with an extremely high mortality rate. It would ravage the daylights out of any species (assuming a species is susceptible to infection) it contacts. Ebola, a naturally occurring biological threat is nasty as fuck. Your organs turn to mush, your skin falls off, and your eventually die from mass internal haemorrhaging, drowning in your own body fluids. Ebola had a decent mortality rate for a naturally occurring virus, 70% by World Health Organization. Meaning 70% of infected, will die.

So, in short;

Nuclear/Radiological incidents are long term events that span large areas for years and have long term residual effects. (This would affect entire regions and or the entire nation)

Chemical Agents and TIC/TIM incidents are short term events that span of localized areas and can leave long term residual effects. (This would affect a local area, such as a county or tri-county area)

Biological agent incidents are short term events that span over large areas and leave long term residual effects. (This would effect the nation)

>>400

well if thats so we could always just go and camp out innasmokey mountains, though there would be no precise location to meetup and this could cause problems, if so then people need to not shoot on sight and instead check to see if the people are /k/ommandoes or good people, but seriously; the guy in Tennessee is a huge stormfag so I'm not sure I want to interact with that shit.

Okay i think I found a good location:

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.5627325,-83.4982799,162m/data=!3m1!1e3

>in smokey mountains, hunting and a creek is nearby

>high ground so we can see people coming

>easy to find

>no real reason for other people to go there

>some other shit is around but nothing much

r8 location?

>>415

also what the fuck is up with Oklahoma and names of towns?

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.0737883,-100.9514499,81264m/data=!3m1!1e3

>>415

That's funny, I've been to Clingmans Dome, camped in the Smokies as a kid. There isn't jack shit around, it's a decent location. The Appalachian Trail passes nearby Clingmans, which is perfect if you're looking to travel north or south of NC in relative seclusion.

>>416

History, mostly. Lots of name changing over the years, some towns kept the same name, others have been renamed repeatedly. This is especially true during Western Expansionism and during/after the Civil War. Nothing unique to Oklahoma, you should see where I'm from, Upstate New York, it is mostly Native America in name, like Utica, Oneida, ect…, but plenty of places named English and French names from the Fur Trade Era and Colonial Period, like Champlain, Fort Edward, Portage, Schuylerville, Burgoyne, Whitehall, Albany, ect…

>>418

>moscow

>liberal

>Tyrone

>hooker

>"its becuz of history guys"

What the fuck man

Yeah I know weird native American town names I used to live in one called Tamaqua

But seriously, was there anything of interest at clingmans dome? not resources but is it a 5/5 bretty guud? I mean hunting is probably good there because its illegal there so the deer and shit have never been hunted regularly to my knowledge, also from the pics on google images it looks like it would be perfect for watching any incoming vehicles, also I have never been on the Appalachian trail even though I'm in NC, any info that I should know about in that area?

>>423

May I ask what state your in?

It would probably be wise to block the trail with a felled tree so people aren't moving willly nilly or at least it'll be easier for us to detect them.

Also caldwell county fag here, if I just went west how would I know if its the Appalachin trail and how would I know if I'm north or south of Clingmans dome?

Also perhaps we should have the meetup area at the dome but not sleep/live on it, but leave a note in the dome saying to stay there or something and light a signal at night or something to signal us in our camp or something.

>>430

If it's not nigs they're probably going to be friendly, also how do you feel about getting (cool) Normies to come with us not the young Facebook hipsters but like middle aged men? also how close is it to any nuclear reactors?

>>430

looking at it I'm close-ish to Hickory and grandfather Mountain, if i just followed the catawba river south then continued along the trail south then I should have no problems. A long fucking walk because I ain't driving with all the nigs in this area, not to mention so much fucking traffic anyways so I'd have to walk that shitat night

>>432

Sounds like a good idea, at least it bulks up on manpower and most would be relatively receptive to learning.

Closest on the NC side is McGuire Nuclear Station and Catawba Nuclear Station on the NC/SC border along the Concord Peninsula. On the Tennessee side is Watts Bar Nuclear Generating Station, Oak Ridge National Labs, and Sequoyah Nuclear Plant.

However, the distance from the facilities and mountainous terrain around the Appalachian region is sufficient enough to greatly reduce effects from a catastrophe at one or all of the facilities. Regular monitoring of the air and water would need to be done when doing any kind of extended exploration or scavenging is done. Decent commercial or industrial grade geiger counters and survey meters would be needed. Low range geiger counters for food contamination detection and decontamination procedures (something like the CDV-700 w/ hotdog probes) and decent midrange geigers (like Johnson, Eberline, or Ludlum) with pancake probes.

>>433

Only major concern outside of nigs, is the Catawba Nuclear Station, but the plant won't be of major concern until well into a happening.

They're expensive, but you can always get a NukAlert to attach to your gear. Or buy an actual geiger or survey meter and have it calibrated.

>>434

yeah, I heard that after two weeks you could walk around where a nuke hit and your going to be mostly fine, my house is in the woods so If I hide in there for a few days then make the trek there then I should be fine right? I live in Lenoir, no dox pls

>>437

That rule pertains to fallout from a nuclear detonation. Fallout produced from a reactor meltdown is a bit different.

When a nuclear device is detonated (NUDET) at ground level or subsurface it thrusts upwards vaporized, contaminated dust, dirt, debris, ect… into the atmosphere. The returning contaminants to Earth is fallout, of which generally radioisotopes dissipate from within two weeks.

However, this depends on your location, weapon yield, meteorological conditions, ect… fallout is still a threat after the "two weeks", but is greatly lessened because it is no longer airborne. Fallout would accumulate on the surface, contaminate water sources, contaminate plant life and wildlife. Depending on your distance from ground zero, you may have been subject to neutron or gamma radiation as well. Based on weapon attitude and yield, large areas would be completely destroyed by the shockwave, precursor winds, and fireball. Any non-wood structures within 50mi would be heavily damaged or structurally comprised, large urban fires would be rampant caused by the intense heat during detonation and the ensuing fireball.

The "rule of thumb" in regards to once a nuclear weapon detonated was, if you closed one eye and used you thumb to compare against the mushroom cloud, if your thumb eclipsed the cloud you were relatively safe from immediate local fallout, but if the cloud engulfed your thumb, you where in immediate danger of local fallout. (local fallout begins to fall within an hour of a detonation)

However, all time frame and data of the above pertains to a weapon utilizing a clean tamper and not using a salting or boosting material, or a dirty tamper.

In regard to fallout and contamination caused by a reactor meltdown, it can be far worse. Unlike a NUDET (nuclear detonation), which vaporizes most of the material into particulate, causing the creation of various radioisotopes that are unique to a detonation and are short lived because of a short half-life. In the cause of a reactor, isotopes are constantly created and when released have shown a much longer half-life than that from a weapons detonation.

Not to mention what materials are left behind at a site and what is distributed by any explosions at a site. (Fukushima had fuel pellets dispersed over the surrounding area when a hydrogen explosion fractured spent fuel rods and cause the pellets to rain down. The pellets are highly radioactive material and contaminated everything they came in contact with. Similar occurrence happened at Chernobyl, where pieces of fuel rods, reactor fragments, and fuel rained down over the area.)

>>445

do you think the National Guard or the people working at the plants would shut them down in the case of SHTF? Or would they just leave.

How can you even stop systems. I know nothing when it comes to systems, the extent I know is basic types of radiation and depth they go. Is there some way to stop the alpha particles? or was it beta that divided?

>>451

Nuclear generating facilities aren't like a traditional source of power (like coal or oil burning plants), you can't just turn them off.

The rods are creating a sustained nuclear reaction which is facilitated within the reactor itself. This reaction puts of intense heat, which is utilized to create steam by passing water through pipework into the reactor and out as steam, then through giant turbines, where it is cooled and passed through again. Simultaneously the reaction is controlled by internal and external water cooling systems. You can insert the rods into their protective shielding, but all that does is slows the reaction (SCRAM is the emergency action of quickly inserting the rods into their containment shielding). Rods can still pass neutrons and maintain criticality inside their shielding. That is what a meltdown is, an uncontrollable nuclear chain reaction.

Rods contain hundreds of Uranium-235 and or Plutonium-239 pellets, without moderation and cooling they'll react. Both isotope are extremely radioactive and have serious half-life. Uranium-235 has a half-life of 700,000,000 years, Plutonium-239 has a half-life of 24,000 years. Half-life is where a material degrades to half its initial value, so it takes about 24,000 years for Plutonium-239 to be half as radioactive as it is at production.

The National Guard won't have personnel on hand to operate or maintain a nuclear generating facility. The US Army had it's atomic power program taken away years ago and only one service has personnel trained in operating and maintain reactors and that's the Navy.

Plants could "shut down", but that would leave entire regions without power. Meanwhile, the fuel rods (both active and spent) coolant needs to be maintained and monitored. If it gets to the point that nuclear generating facilities have to consider suspendingg operations, it's really damn bad and no one is going to be hanging around to provide upkeep, they'll be at home tending to their own problems.

Besides, even if we played "Devil's Advocate" and all 104 commercial reactors suspended operations, who's going to stay on site to maintain and monitor critical systems? Keep coolant levels maintained? Provided security? Prevent some bunch of jackasses from reinserting rods?

That's just if we're talking about an economic or societal breakdown. Earthquake? Flood? War? Nuclear Conflict? Those facilities would suffer structural/system damage or be targets.

>>454

Are you speaking in terms of a post-incident scenario? Like shielding from fallout or contaminated areas?

>>455

yea like in the event of a meltdown. if I remember right beta particles react and breakdown into alpha particles and just go flying. is it possible to slowdown or prevent the beta particles from reacting (I know most of that is probably wrong its been like 2-3yrs since ive seen nuclear energy processes

>>457

Beta particles are high energy, fast positrons and electrons emitted from the beta decay of a nuclei. Beta decays when a neutron is turned into a proton or a proton is turned into a neutron.

Alpha particles are high energy particles consisting of two protons and two neutrons (identical to a helium nucleus) produced by alpha decay of a nucleus.

Alpha particles can be stopped by a few inches of air, a piece of paper, or a layer of skin. However, they are extremely dangerous, if inhaled or otherwise introduced internally. Ingested Alpha particles have a much higher biological effect than standard beta or gamma emissions.

Beta particles can be stopped by aluminium foil, but can penetrate skin and can mutate molecules, such as DNA.

The only way to prevent contamination is the use of MOPP or HAZMAT gear.

>>459

Beta particles can be stopped by aluminum foil,

If I make a hat will it prevent it?

>>460

It would indeed, but just for the top of your head, the rest of your body would be subject to contamination.

>>461

dammit, my roommate looked at me funny when I made aluminum foil Armour in case of this.

>>493

Why not just make a aluminum liner in your battlegear :^)

If anyone isn't willing to make the full trek Northeast from LA/Texas/Arkansas, there are a few locations back home in Mississippi I'd be willing to scout out later this year when I get back from this deployment. At worst, it could serve as a tempoary hole-up until a team is formed to continue on.

>>587

That flag is cus of a proxy right?

sage for off topic

>>587

Details?

>>598

>>598

No, I'm deployed right now.

>>632

Thick woods with good cover, but just enough habitation in the area to steal if necessary. I can think of a hill that rises up out of nowhere that we can go to that should be good for a holeup site. The area around it is completely flat, but it rises up at a steeper than 45 degree angle. There's just enough underbrush to keep a defender concealed, but not so much that operating is a nightmare.

So this thread went off about radiations and such, which should be considered in a location but I dont think a location has really been set.

So what are the top locations that have been put up for debate and is there any issues in them. Also dying board is dying

>>778

lol is it really that hard to read the thread?

Clingmans dome is the top part, though somewhere along the Appalachian Trail is good because then we could meetup with each other using a not very used road.