/zen/ -

Soto zen is new age rubbish: "You're all gods - you just have to believe that you are! You'll become stress free! Just sit down, stop thinking, and believe!"

How can you be so dumb, that you look at Buddha and say "Oh, that's just some guy sitting for a long period of time. I can do that."?

Why do Soto practitioners even go to work in the morning? If having a desk job means sitting at a desk, then isn't that the same as sitting at a desk at home, pretending to work? Then you're a diligent worker - right? …or maybe you can just raise your legs up in the air while you lie in bed, and pretend that you're sitting at a desk.

Similarly, there are also people who believe that sitting and repeating suttras over and over, without any understanding, will lead them to enlightenment. …or believe that thinking about koans as a way to just occupy your thoughts, without any attempt at understanding them, will lead to enlightenment.

That's simple mimicry that will get you nowhere.

I continue my bashing of Soto zen, with this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_uKNzjPM0k

Keep in mind that Rinzai zen, isn't like Soto zen. Rinzai zen - when practiced properly - include learning the teachings of the patriarchs, or at least learning SOME form of dharma. During meditation, it is not about emptying your mind of thoughts, but considering things such as dispelling dual thinking and false concepts, and understanding reality and coming to terms with it. Yes, you will end up peaceful and confident, but the difference is that you will actually be enlighted too. You will not end up being a self-deluded Soto fraud, thinking you are like Buddha just because you have learned to sit upright.

>>37

>you don't even need to understand his mind.

>implying you can understand anything (this isn't an personal insult, "understanding" is just an illustion

>>45

>new age rubbish

>from the 13th Century

Also, I don't know where you got that "you're all gods" shit when Soto is just Zen for farmers?

The deal is to sit AND JUST SIT. Stop thinking and perceiving the usual amount of bullshit.

When you achieve that, you understand there are no gods, there is no illumination and there's nothing to be understood.

Of course, if you want to believe you're a god and you're the only god because you understand the Buddha mind, there are dozens of other schools that will make you feel the special snowflake.

>>37

Say hello to my friend: the Second Noble Truth that says "suffering arises from desire."

If you start with "I doubt people can reach much enlightenment in this way" – if you desire enlightenment, you're in the wrong path.

Wouldn't you rather take a path where you already have enlightenment?

>>69

woah intereting thought nice

>>67

>"Understanding" is just an illusion.

*Really* now? Then that would mean that *enlightenment* is just an illusion.

This is what I mean with "new age rubbish": Pipe logic. Hearing that a lot of concepts are mere illusions, and then going "Ooh, it's all just one big illusion! I understand!". It's like if a hippie would learn about jet engines, and go "Ooh! So what you're saying is that we can all fly anywhere, with the power of our minds!".

…and this is certainly not the first time when new age has resurrected something old, and then repackaged it into something cheap that can be sold to gullible audiences.

However, it is not just turning stupidity into a religion, but it is also a logical fallacy:

1. You can't understand that there's nothing to be understood, because then you have understood something.

2. There is no proof that anybody claiming to have searched anywhere and found nothing to understand, simply aren't self-confident idiots.

Claiming that there is nothing to understand, goes against every single enlightenment and all teachings.

With "god" I mean "enlightened", "a buddha".

>>69

Nice troll logic.

1. The Second Noble Truth doesn't say that *all* "desires" cause suffering. The desires in question are strong emotional attachments, not simple motivations.

2. Saying that people who desire enlightenment are on the wrong path, is like saying that people who don't know geophysics shouldn't study geophysics, because not knowing geophysics "is being on the wrong path".

3. …and yes, I would rather take a path where I already have enlightenment. However, it has to be *actual* enlightenment. Not just a made-up term for a made-up quality so that I can feel better about myself. …and unless you happen to be in actual Nirvana right now, that means that you will have to actually learn something.

I talked to a Sikh who explained the illusion thing nicely . he said it isn't the world, things or people or emotions that are illusions but the incorrecr values we ascribe to them . we tend to overvalue unimportant stuff and undervalue important stuff. The illusion is this mismatch of values we ascribe to the world.

Desire itself is not bad or illusory when its aimed appropriately. Like the desire to be compassionate and patient… Etc