/zoo/ - Zoophilia

Spaying/neutering can potentially cause a lot more problems than it solves, a quick google search can show you a lot of studies that support this. As it turns out, evolution didn't design these creatures to be ritually mutilated for maximum quality of health. Any real behavioral benefit from spaying/neutering can be gained in equal with simple training. The biggest flaw in anyone's plan was believing the claims of the people performing the service. Most Americans just listen to the vet talk about how great spaying/neutering is but believing the vet who tells you that cutting up your dog will improve things is like believing the chinaman who tells you the snake oil fixes arthritis.

my simple argument has always been: Why should i subject my animal to the risk of general anesthesia so that you can remove healthy tissue?

the only counter argument ive gotten is that spay/neuter prevents testicular/ovarian cancer...

well sure, you can in fact prevent cancer to a body part by removing and thereby killing that body part, great fucking logic there.

seriously, there's pretty much zero reason to spay or neuter unless you are doing it for a medical reason

A lot of locations have serious overpopulation issues and it is mandated for a good reason there. Other places somewhat less but if you take human behavior as static it's better a neutered animal than a rejected dead one, considering overflowing shelters.

My main problem is with early neutering and early spaying, which I reject completely. Medical science even with animals is too primitive and riddled with failure to deserve the faith it asks of people when it asks them to make decisions that go against all common and evolutionary sense, on a massive scale.

>>4591

theres no reason not to just mandate vasectomies. it prevents hormonal imbalance and still stops unwanted pregnancy. no reason to spay females if all males are vasectomized. spay surgery is very invasive and can lead to later health problems, and castration is a bit overkill.

>>4592

There is tubal ligation for female dogs.

>>4598

it's still a more invasive procedure just due to the internal nature of a female's parts. it's much easier to just stick to altering males.

still definitely something to be avoided if possible, but i understand that there are plenty of pet owners who shouldnt own pets to begin with, let alone intact ones.

>>4599

(First time ever using a chan board, so, forgive me if I mess up the code.)

Yes, altering females is invasive, and always will be.

But removing the male's testicles, while less invasive, is still an unnecessary surgery. The overpopulation problem, can be resolved by the dog "owners" being responsible.

I do not think it should ever be necessary to perform such a surgery simply by ritual. If the dog has testicular cancer, sure, do it then. But any other reason, in my opinion, is unnecessary, and cruel.

Anyone who has had surgery, do you want to go through post-op pain, for something that wasn't even necessary in the first place?

just tell them you're a responsible pet owner so you dont need to mutilate your dog for your convenience. Also ask them how their dog reacted after getting its balls/vag sliced off/out. chances are the dog was pissed but the owner didnt give two shits. probably just tried to cheer up the pup with some food, lol.

http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf

I am generally against castration and the reason I use is that those organs are meant to be there and they have an important role in the organism. Just like people said here before. Unless there is a good medical reason to remove them, there is no need to do that.

The only problem I have is cats.

It is usually not a big deal to be clever enough to keep your dog home and prevent him/her from making more dogs without spaying/neutering. Dogs are usually happy enough in the flat or in the garden provided they can spend time with you. The same probably goes for most domestic animals.

But cats are more or less able to climb over everything and get everywhere. They are more independent wild animals that want to spend time alone doing cat stuff.

Keeping a cat only inside your home is not only difficult but also unfair to the cat because cats want to go out and explore and they will do anything to achieve that.

And you can not prevent a cat from breeding if he/she can go out.

This is the only case where I approve taking away the ability to breed from an animal.

>>4614

>And you can not prevent a cat from breeding if he/she can go out.

True. But in this case, you don't need a full castration; the vasectomy/tubal ligation is sufficient.

>>4615

Tubal litigation is, I have heard, more invasive, surprisingly. Consider this, removal of the ovaries, is just a cut, go in, grab the ovaries, pull, cut, and, essentially, that's it. Tubal litigation requires that you tie them off, which, is a bit more difficult to do in a small place, like the inside of a cat or dog, and, requires more room to work than just a small cut to basically reach in with tweezers.

>>4606

Thank you for that link. I know another vet who wrote a similar paper, though I am unsure if he has gotten it published yet. I will show him.

>>4600

I definitely dont think animals need to be altered, but there are counties that want to mandate spay/neuter for all animals that dont have paperwork saying they are meant for breeding.

My point was that it if they have to mandate something, it should be vasectomies. Its a minimally invasive procedure and it leaves the male with otherwise functioning testicles. The surgery for females is far too invasive to justify without a prior medical reason.

I think lots of people don't like having intact dogs because they're "inconvenient." Heat cycles are inconvenient, training a male not to go after females in heat is inconvenient, people are lazy and don't want to deal with it. It's stupid and not a good reason to surgically alter an animal, but what're you gonna do I guess. People in general also seem unnerved by the fact that animals are inherently sexual, and you can't get around that if you have an intact animal.

There are some animals that should be spayed/neutered for their health (female rabbits come to mind), but dogs especially aren't one of them.

Unfortunately my boy was neutered at the shelter when he was only a few weeks old, so I didn't even have a say... He still gets hard and humps my hand though....

If I wanted to be a dick to them, my response would be "It's none of your business if my dog is spayed or not" But would use the religion excuse or just the "dont have time" but I'm sure the stupid people would be "Then you don't need a dog if you dont have time"

I rarly take my dog anywhere, like a dog park, unless no one is there. Cause I don't want the argument of that crap. My dog hasn't got knocked up or anything, because I was smart to keep her away from other males...

But you can't reason with brainwashed stupid people/

>>4683

A few weeks is awful, I can't believe some places still do that! If you have to neuter, it's a lot better for their health to do it after they've reached maturity. They need sex hormones to grow and develop properly. Lots of studies these days are showing dogs neutered/spayed before reaching maturity are a lot more prone to joint and skeletal problems later in life.

If we have to speuter, I'd at least like it regulated enough that we can't do it that early. It's just setting dogs up for serious health problems, and that's not fair.

>>4614

You really shouldn't be letting your cat out anyways, at least not without a leash and collar.

>>4587

my dog is a purebred and he needs his balls for "breeding" ;3

In the UK the reason is typically behavioural. I can tell you that when I find the perfect Border Collie to adopt he's not gonna get the clip, except maybe to fulfill my neutering fetish. Which is a thing. Maybe I'll get two boys and neuter one of them, just for the comparison.

I find a lot of people who use the "it prevents/stops behavioral problems" reasoning just don't know how to properly train a dog, or are too lazy to. Military and police dogs aren't neutered, and those guys are probably some of the most well-trained disciplined dogs in the world. I know of plenty of folks who have intact service dogs. And a lot of the time, when a dog is neutered to stop a problem behavior... the behavior doesn't change and the dog has to be trained anyway.

Also OP you might be interested in this reddit thread:

https://reddit.com/r/zoophilia/comments/31c8zm/when_looking_to_buy_an_intact_dog_whats_a_good/

Someone there linked to information about negative health effects of neutering.

>>4807

not everything from reddit is cringe-inducing you know...

>>4809

Oh for fucks sake, this elitist hugbox shit is so BORING.