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/co/ - Comics & Cartoons

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File: d0e6924c76eef31⋯.jpg (56.59 KB, 798x420, 19:10, Spider-Man-Homecoming-2-Si….jpg)


Seriously, how could any other hero deal with Spidey's rogues gallery? He's as strong as a Galactus herald, has insane agility levels and EVERY action is guided by a precognitive spider sense, which also makes ALL sneak attacks fail. His webbing is absolutely crippling and used to be near unbreakable for most people, including Spidey himself (its wet paper bag tier these days that everyoen can break). You cant fly or get away easily with the webbing and his agility/strength - he's going to be up on a roof or back on your ass or just web you down if you try to run/flee.

Someone like Shocker is a jobber, but only because Spider-Man is godlike. He would fuck up just about anyone else with exception of Thor, Iron Man or very small handful of other heroes. And he's just a street thug with gauntlets.

Green Goblin and Hobgoblin (original) were god tier villains. No one is dodging the finger blasts, razor bats, dealing with their mobility on the glider or catching up to them. Few can take the raining pumpkin bombs. And any that get in close have to deal with guys as strong as Spider-Man, but with no spider sense to deal with it. Go read roger stern hobby and see how frustrated he is with the spider sense and how its only thing that saved spiderman (gets fucked up when loses sense to pumpkin gas). Total darkness or gas blocking visibility? Spider sense stops you dead.

It's not just the spider sense, but the agility and strength that back it up. Look what he does to Wolverine as a joke whenever they 'fight' (hard to call it that when Spidey just shits on him for laughs and doesnt even try). Wolverine cant compete with Spider-Man on any level - that's how fucking broken he is.

And his rogues gallery looks like chumps at times when they are near godlike vs almost anyone else. The fucking Spot would literally destroy other heroes and is a complete joke to spiderman.

Look at Doc Ock - how does someone like Captain America deal with him? Sure, you might find a story with him beating him or not getting destroyed, but he can physically hurt Spider-Man routinely and is fast enough to react to him and compete with him. Caps shield wont stop the arms and he'd be pinned down and murdered with ease if plot armor wasnt used to downplay doc ock's power and how he fights Spider-Man.

Venom can go invisible, is stronger than Spider-Man, has his agility and webbing and is an unstoppable monster to anyone without fire or sound abilities. Carnage even moreso.

It's common to shit talk Spidey's rogues these days, especially with shit writers that use them all as jokes that get taken down in one punch by mockingbird or are koolaid man-like losers that show up, lose instantly and get laughed about. They are all fucking monsters that would shit on other heroes and should be much bigger perceived threats than they are portrayed as. Spider-Man's powers have grown so much in 60 years that he's a fucking god at this point. His villains deserve more respect and should be shown as the legitimate power houses they are.



>Venom can go invisible

Since when? I believe he can neutralize the spidersense because the symbiote assimilated it.


File: 10483ea7207cd57⋯.jpg (99.12 KB, 600x413, 600:413, Venom_invisible_ability_ca….jpg)

File: 15805d3c47485e0⋯.jpg (72.81 KB, 280x600, 7:15, venom1.jpg)

File: c2235aa894fe687⋯.jpg (95.84 KB, 392x600, 49:75, venom2.jpg)


More like camouflage than invisible, but the point is the same.


Spidey rogues are literally farmed out to other heroes and have been for decades. Hulk has fought Rhino tons of times and Kingpin is a Daredevil bad guy at this point.



Oh, I wasn't aware he could do that. I stand corrected.


The people who ended up in charge of spidey are the people who enjoyed suffering, much like how the people in charge of mmos are the people who enjoyed grinding


I wonder who would win Sinister Six or Punisher? Sinister Six would probably win but I just want to see Frank fire a heat seeking rocket at Vulture.



Probably Frank Castle would use his military autism to kill them.He managed to kill undead supervillains after all.


File: cf2b0bde7ea2078⋯.png (401.37 KB, 325x499, 325:499, ClipboardImage.png)





Don't remind me this disappointing cancer.


File: 99ca6ddd2491e47⋯.jpg (497.77 KB, 1055x1600, 211:320, 3.jpg)

This is a good reminder that it was Mephisto of all people who caused all the shit to go down in Old Man Logan.




You mean Mysterio.



Spidey's villian vs Superman. Who wins?


Spidey's a nightmare to fight. I mean, on paper he only bench presses ten tons which isn't that much in Marvel, where that's pretty much entry-level super-strength, like the Power Broker gives people, and spider-speed isn't that amazing, lets him dodge maybe one bullet at a time, but you combine the two, speed X mass = force, and with the necessary durability to stop his body folding up like an accordion every time he flexes, he must hit like a freight train. Impressive that he regularly punches normal mooks without atomising their heads like a fucking body mist. Shows he really holds back a lot.

And his fighting skills are really terrible, he obviously has no training beyond hard experience and maybe watching some pro wrestling. He only throws haymakers and drop kicks, and does a backflip when leaning out of the way would do. Imagine if he just learnt enough boxing to stay standing next to an enemy, slipping punches and throwing combinations, he could be landing one hundred punches to, well, zero with his Spider-sense. I think the only times he ever gets tagged must be because he overreacts and jumps into the air and can't change direction in time.

Jesus, one lesson from Daredevil and he'd be like Fist Of The North Star.

Also, I think more of his villains die than anyone short of The Punisher, not because he goes out to kill them, but because he's always willing to ramp up the intensity of the fight, on top of a skyscraper, in mid air, in a fire, whatever, and other supers just don't have his ability to recover from a bad position like he does with his web-shooters.



Superman since he's written to be so broken that hardly anything in Marvelverse is capable of stopping him if Supes decides to intervene. However that's pretty big if since Superman has proven time & time again that he's willing to let people suffer for his own amusement/ego of fellow superheroes. Some of the more clever Spidey villains could exploit that to accomplish their goals and taunt Superman about it afterwards, but thats pretty much their limit in vs. matchup against God that wants to LARP as reporter.



I'm starting to think that you might not like superman



In a straight fight? Punisher loses in an instant, but maybe gets off one suicidal death grenade or deadman switch explosive. In an indirect fight, where Frank can utilize his quasi-Batman prep time, he might be able to get most of them.



>Seriously, how could any other hero deal with Spidey's rogues gallery?

Fairly easily. Characters like Hulk, She-Hulk, Silver Surfer, Nova, Dr. Strange, Iron Man, Thor, Sentry, Black Bolt, decent amount of mutants, and many others could handle them without major difficulties.

>He's as strong as a Galactus herald

What? Does he still have phoenix force or was it just some writer-fanboy sucking spider-dick? Galactus heralds are at or near Super-Man's level.



Is it an alternate continuity? If not, Punisher loses since he can only win by killing and he can't kill anyone important.


File: 485b7be23610810⋯.jpg (352.33 KB, 948x1390, 474:695, tumblr_inline_orb69td4Ll1s….jpg)


There was one incident where Firelord chased Spidey around all day trying to kill him, and finally, Peter had some kind of panic attack and freaked out and did a Maximum Spider attack from Capcom Marvel Heroes, essentially. Just bouncing around pounding on Firelord without holding back. Doesn't prove he's stronger than FL, just what I said, middling superstrength times middling superspeed equals HURT.



In Superior Spider-man, Spock initially had some trouble holding back from harming villains. He knocked out a bunch of Black Cat's teeth, which turned into a flimsy reason for her to become a full villain.

There was one series where Iron Fist was training with Spidey and developing a new martial art just for Spidey that worked with all of his abilities and powers which made him especially dangerous.

In a what-if story, they explored what would happen if Spidey actually attempted to train and develop his powers, beyond simply just using them and running off gut instinct. The outcome they showed was that the Spider sense would develop into full-blown precognition where no one could even think about hurting him without Spidey becoming aware of their exact intentions and everything that might happen.



If it's in his own book, he wins the same way he beat the Reapers, by rigging everything to explode and standing on a trapdoor.

How many of the Sinister Six are actually bulletproof, anyway? I know everyone wears kevlar, but that's not so good against a guy just hosing you with an M-60, or rigging an Irish Firing Squad of claymore mines.

Sandman could be beat by thermite, Electro might be a problem unless Frank has some incarnation or substitute goldfish of Microchip to rig up a grounding line or a superconducting loop. Or Frank could just assume Electro is going to shoot first and set up a dummy in his costume standing in front of a couple tons of dynamite and rusty nails, lol.

He could set up Kurt Saxon's ghetto anti-helicopter weighted chain mortars for the Vulture, and just take on Kraven at his own game, sniper, tracking and primitive weapons.

As for strategy, well, Doc Oc is a scientific and criminal genius, but he's a little out of his depth trying to second-guess military tactics.




Didn't Shang Chi help teach Spiderman proper martial arts so he develops his own fighting style called Spider-Fu or something?



I don't know, Anon.

The Flash is pretty busted, and his Rogues consist of a guy with a freeze ray, a guy who can open portals through mirrors, a guy who can control the weather, and your average Australian.

I think Spider Man would have trouble with Captain Cold



I think that was Ultimate Spider-Man, and Ultimate Dead Peter at that, he only taught him one counter-attack and encouraged him to just wing it and come up with his own style. They didn't have a lot of time together.



Flash's Rogues are not powerhouses, but they are on another level for strategy, consistently coming up with ways to rob a bank in a town with a guy who moves at the speed of light.



What's there to like? He's written as this messianic figure yet he acts anything but. As Ben Parker summed it nicely, "with great powers comes great responsibility" and generally most superheroes act the moment they perceive someone to be in trouble. Problem with Superman is that he does not, even though he 1) can perceive the victims in need of help 2) is capable of helping in time thanks to the multitude of his powers. Could you imagine any other mainstream hero from DC or Marvel just callously ignoring the people they know are in trouble?

This is the fundamental problem of Superman where there is immense clash between how Superman is intended to be portrayed (benevolent messiah who wants to normal Joe) and how he comes of in reality (selfish jerk who plays hero when it suits him). Writers would either seriously need to nerf him (perception in particular) or add lot more inner conflict such as Supes agonizing over the fact that any moment devoted to his own desires dooms hundreds if not thousands of people he could have saved. But since that clashes with the intended messianic portrayal, good luck getting any depth from DC.


File: 4c37aa27bc7787c⋯.jpg (249.66 KB, 600x957, 200:319, Zoom.jpg)

File: 5bbd01f13bb6c85⋯.jpg (364.49 KB, 1920x1080, 16:9, Gorilla Grodd.jpg)


>Flash's Rogues are not powerhouses

You're right about the Rogues, but not all his rogues.



Ben's ethos works for a man. Superman's powers might as well be those of a god, but he has many of the same psychological limitations that everyone else has. Superman would have to dedicate his whole existence to abide by it, at which point Lex's point in Red Son will be more true than ever. "Why don't you just put the whole world in a bottle, Superman?"



>Superman would have to dedicate his whole existence to abide by it, at which point Lex's point in Red Son will be more true than ever. "Why don't you just put the whole world in a bottle, Superman?"

That always felt like an incredibly retarded scene because it runs on the assumption that Superman would eventually get fed up of constantly saving people, preventing catastrophes and defeating bad guys and try to find some shortcut to permanently fixing the problem which is…about as wide a margin as you could possibly miss the point by when writing a character like Superman. Superman doesn't take shortcuts and is smart enough to know that there are no permanent solutions to defeating evil, so he just goes on forever. Him actually forsaking a moment of relaxation and just constantly being on the lookout to save everyone and feeling huge guilt when he's so goddamn exhausted that he literally must rest or he'll drop dead is a logical path for the character to take if we go by his unshakeable moral code…but because DC continues to treat Superman like a Mickey Mouse comic while ostensibly trying to write him all serious, we're stuck in this this weird middle-ground with the character.



Even if he doesnt tire and take shortcuts for a permanent solution, it would still pretty much put a bottle around the world. Supes at 100% constantly saving everyone is the same as taking shortcuts to prevent harm. Its a free will thing, which is why he acts "callously". Its why theres a God/Jesus thing with him, because he can save everyone but doesnt for that reason



>3500 road deaths per day chose to drive

>26 civilian bystanders in afghanistan per day chose to get akbar'd

>10 drownings per day chose to swim

>1000 work related accident deaths per day chose to go to work

>32 children per day shouldn't have played on that fucking roof, they were warned

No matter how sensitively you tune the culpability scale, a moral person in superman's position would be occupied constantly throughout the day, more so even than he is depicted to be in those "cautionary tale" storylines where he tries and fails to save everyone before either going dictator or taking a spa day while he listens to a constant parade of death and misery, depending on how the writer wants to justify their own smaller moral inconsistencies. It's one thing when a writer refuses to consider the workings of what they're writing but readers making retarded excuses like "free will" can fuck right off.



>speed X mass = force

Force = Mass x Acceleration, dumbass

t. engineering major



Even if he could save everybody constantly forever, thats too much responsibility even for someone with the mental fortitude superman has. Fuck you with your 'moral inconsistancies'. Furthermore, its absolutley a free will thing. For example when you get stopped from killing yourself for the tenth time. Whats stopping everybody from driving drunk when superman will make it so nobody gets hurt


File: b4e374d45cd327b⋯.jpg (424.17 KB, 825x464, 825:464, jl.jpg)


Say being superman is really hard, if only there were other superheroes


Is this a new copypasta?



>t. engineering major

Okay, Robert Heinlein, given what we know about Spider-Man's speed and strength, both of which are well documented, how hard would his full power punch hit?



But without that dilemma Superman is not hero or even heroic. He's reduced into a selfish jerk who saves people as hobby when it suits him. To fix it, writers would either have to 1) Nerf Superman hard, particularly his senses 2) have Superman acknowledge the moral dilemma his powers place him in and actively bring it up instead of just writing one "Supes tries 2 hard, gets exhausted & calls it a day"-arc or 3) change Superman's own personality from Messiah-wannabe into a guy with powers who fundamentally wants to be normal human instead of alien god, but thanks to his ego cant help from playing superhero when its convenient.


File: 93f65458c4782a3⋯.png (278.11 KB, 1920x1745, 384:349, e620f7a3288f468dafe2ba997c….png)


>He's reduced into a selfish jerk who saves people as hobby when it suits him.



Worse than Saitama since 1) Saitama is honest about who he is & what he does with no delusions of grandeur and 2) Saitama actually saves the people moment he sees them in trouble. I give you that Saitama would be perfectly good model to start building Superman's new characterization though. Superman who makes it explicitly clear that he's doing superhero work as hobby would be fine with me, just get rid of the messiah cult around him & how other DC superheroes view him as "the best & most moral of us" when this blatantly not the case with existing Supes.


File: 79aeb2595d07131⋯.png (176.64 KB, 250x287, 250:287, 250px-Kraven_the_Hunter_Ve….png)

*blocks your path*



>be me, Cain Marko

>call me Sandman

>very briefly an Avenger, also a merc, but keep returning to New York to be a two-bit thug and burglar

> immortal, capable of combining essence with any amount of sand that's close to hand

>never (and I mean NEVER) occurs to me to move to Middle East and establish myself as ruler of people who thinks it's bad to eat pork but perfectly reasonable to eat a goat they've just fucked

>will never live in luxury as what the local savages probably will assume is a Jann earth djinn

>will never arrive on royal visit to New York and address the United Nations, starting with "Greetings in the name of Allah" and ending with "I declare fatwa on Spider-Man"

>I just want to see every cabby and kebab vendor throw rocks at him when he swings by

>two days later, Ms. Marvel kills webhead by splatting him against a brick wall with her giant hand


>Declare Ms. Marvel haram for brazenly showing her hair and fuck off back to Sandy Arabia.

>Doc Ock calls me at home and screams my ear off for ten whole minutes because his dwarf thinks he had something to do with and won't sleep with him anymore

>will never do ANY of that

>well, fuck


File: 29dc43cdf472b93⋯.jpg (89.75 KB, 607x874, 607:874, 鮭夫@ヒトミ先生の保健室_(Pixiv_ID_714….jpg)


>>be me



The premise sounds pretty good.

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