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/k/ - Weapons

Salt raifus and raifu accessories

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There's no discharge in the war!

File: 414b394553d75cd⋯.png (3.61 MB, 1425x1842, 475:614, Slavshit Tactics.png)

c9df93  No.480825[Reply]

Let's have a PDF thread going. Going to dump some stuff I have.

http://docdro.id/fyrncHU

436 posts and 218 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

d40a12  No.630445

murdercube.com has an archived page, remember that gents:

http://web.archive.org/web/20160911085829/https://murdercube.com/

everything should be there plus the magnet links still work iirc




File: 40a09c4ee11e513⋯.gif (1013.3 KB, 320x291, 320:291, 40a09c4ee11e51314f631ac202….gif)

394405  No.542033[Reply]

The limit of banners has been increased to 300, so please post any new /k/ themed banners in this thread as long as they do not exceed 500 KB, and are 300 pixels wide and 100 pixels tall.

Thanks.

192 posts and 193 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.
Post last edited at

c011d0  No.623135

>>622204

>zero trigger discipline

>zero basic firearms safety

Fuck 'em. They're thots.




File: 1459347920719.png (451.08 KB, 800x547, 800:547, 1431536462977-2.png)

91d774  No.339941[Reply]

Welcome to /k/

If you're looking for gun history, terms, the basics to gun laws, or what gun you should buy next, go here: http://amagicalplace.wikia.com/wiki/Sticky#

Other board of interest:

>>>/wrol/

Rules: https://8ch.net/k/rules.html

Check the sticky before posting.

All random questions about guns go in the QTDDTOT thread.

Please check the Catalog before posting and avoid duplicate threads.

Tripfags need not apply; see rule 7

532 posts and 157 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.
Post last edited at

4bd089  No.626302

Could someone please clean up the paranormal thread please? It's been completely derailed with blog posting about having children. I know /k/ doesn't like much moderation but it's completely off the rails. It's a niche thread and a fun one to read, there's other places to discuss having kids.




File: a38d38a6c8a6ef7⋯.gif (2.08 MB, 659x609, 659:609, feels_good.gif)

ff7eb3  No.631900[Reply]

> Two Russian nuclear-capable strategic bombers arrived in Venezuela on Monday, a deployment that comes amid soaring Russia-U.S. tensions.

> https://www.washingtonpost.com/

13 posts and 3 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

1493fd  No.632172

>>632024

But Hellenon, napalm IS a chemical weapon.


9517ad  No.632209

>>632041

>worse inflation than a video game with infinitely spawning currency

Uh does this guy not know how real life money works?


7ec4d8  No.632236

>>632209

you do understand that countries can stop printing money right


c89406  No.632241

>>632209

>uh

Fuck off, faggot


5d5613  No.632246

File: 1bb7751b50c2881⋯.png (14.55 KB, 447x378, 149:126, 55.png)




File: 9b77a9466856cd9⋯.jpg (77.08 KB, 750x513, 250:171, lol.jpg)

File: 47404ec46c8565d⋯.png (397.23 KB, 1280x853, 1280:853, yukari_naval_salute.png)

File: e0e786dca7eedd0⋯.mp4 (7.63 MB, 640x272, 40:17, tora tora tora.mp4)

File: 5c47fd9a4b66f6f⋯.mp4 (5.21 MB, 640x360, 16:9, Pearl Harbor MAD.mp4)

ff0358  No.630946[Reply]

NOT A SURPRISE ATTACK; CIVILIANS WERE NOT TARGETED

PACIFIC CONTROL, RESOURCE WAR, AND THE WICKEDNESS OF THAT CRIPPLED FUCK WHOSE FACE MARKS THE UNITED STATES DIME.

VAE VICTIS! AMERICANA INVICTA!

F FOR ALL HONORABLE DEATHS AND A SALUTE TO ALL HONORABLE VETERANS, EITHER SIDE ;_;7

File size too big: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A75AQgDBtJI

457 posts and 178 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

339381  No.632222

File: 3da8aa5fb0d50f2⋯.jpg (74.58 KB, 720x478, 360:239, quran3.jpg)

File: 5cb1d342af9fad1⋯.jpg (129.01 KB, 789x529, 789:529, quran2.jpg)

File: 0369a1c0caf4359⋯.jpg (37.01 KB, 400x377, 400:377, quran.jpg)

>>632215

Feel free to repost.


7cb58a  No.632228

>>632215

>>632200

>>632191

>Trying to derail and drown the posts

Do the shitskins really think this work? There is a reason lolberturdianism has been mostly beaten off the top boards.


eb4aa5  No.632233

Were the 5 minutes at Midway avoidable?


7cb58a  No.632235

>>632200

>autistic rascism

It really is a shitskin!


8f6392  No.632245

>>632195

Nigger GD is NSDAP-tier, if not even better. The only thing they did wrong was not hiding their power level in critical situations.




File: 3ec425fad6eb097⋯.jpg (183.54 KB, 1000x444, 250:111, continuing-to-carry-revolv….jpg)

10c9dd  No.631784[Reply]

>5-6 round capacity

>only useful for magnum cartridges, which by all modern research is useless because capacity, speed, and follow-up shots are important

>tedious to reload relative to a modern, commonplace, autoloader

>cylinder gap which actually punishes for longer barrel length and barely seals the breech, not to mention the risk of blowing off your fingers with tactical stances.

>heavy ass DA trigger which is mechanically complex to a 20-some part glock pistol.

>MUH RELIABILITY is a lie. try a mud test with one.

>you have to clean it from the muzzle-end, risking fucking up the crown and rifling every time.

>2018

>I shiggy hope you're still not using outdated tech.

30 posts and 21 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

e46dbb  No.632155

>>632154

Because it's largely pointless.

Function > fashion.


04e7d6  No.632181

>>632154

Is the trigger mechanism any more complicated than a conventional revolver? I've never seen one taken apart before.

Aside from that, probably 'market forces' (i.e. cheap and lazy) and cultural momentum. It's superior, but not by enough of a margin to change from the design that everyone's already familiar with.

>>632155

A lower bore axis is pointless?


0499b2  No.632185

>>632154

>>632181

They are more mechanically complex - they have an internal hammer that is cocked by that "external" one. They are also bulky, existing models even more so with that steel brick above the barrel and so are almost exclusively range toys.


2bd7bd  No.632243

File: bad15e00abba3fe⋯.jpg (69.42 KB, 650x400, 13:8, 69.jpg)

>>631784

but what if there's a bear

>2018

>not edcing a 44


c6273c  No.632244

>>632150

You ruined Counter-Strike, faggot.




File: 3f30c460f8845bd⋯.jpeg (60.71 KB, 644x362, 322:181, blue division.jpeg)

File: c20d0ed6e3b303e⋯.jpg (138.4 KB, 1244x700, 311:175, Rhodesia.jpg)

f260fd  No.632211[Reply]

Post any /K/ wallpapers here

aa8317  No.632226


b62f8f  No.632242

File: 410783d5540719b⋯.jpg (71.71 KB, 648x484, 162:121, 1468546956141.jpg)

>>632211

You purposely made sure everything was grammatically correct except the /k/, nigger what the fuck are you doing




File: f1a12521d37dfb4⋯.png (1000.4 KB, 1920x1080, 16:9, designer.png)

53f686  No.631967[Reply]

I'm fascinated by weapons design and I'd like to design and build my own firearms, possibly make a career out of it. I'm currently a student studying architecture, but I've got experience working with woods and metals. Where can I even begin with this? Is military experience necessary?

13 posts and 4 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

8d2f29  No.632219

>>632206

Literally just because. I like solving problems and creating something functional. I do not plan to sell.

If anyone wants to contribute to it's design and construction, it will be /k/'s rifle, for all. I'm open to any reasonable ideas.

As for the reason I chose bullpup?

Simple size reduction and added difficulty to the design for fun.


09a42d  No.632220

>>632219

Okay, though i'd like to get autistic and use long recoil for fun.


848ec2  No.632223

>>631967

Haven't you brits banned guns, though?


222f3a  No.632239

File: 8c2f23af6c72808⋯.webm (15.46 MB, 1280x720, 16:9, Gypsyphonic Disko - Dreid….webm)


222f3a  No.632240

File: c9a3556dc7df42c⋯.webm (15.71 MB, 1024x576, 16:9, Gesaffelstein - Pursuit -….webm)

>>632239

Shit, ignore that. Wrong one.




File: 2a528c4373f9ef4⋯.jpeg (95.99 KB, 640x1138, 320:569, 0B11BEB4-041B-4811-8B3C-7….jpeg)

f71b57  No.628759[Reply]

M855A1

>>Fuck you I go where I please

Russian level 4 Armour

>> Hold my beer

https://youtu.be/agWDW2jTsZk

127 posts and 39 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

10d5ed  No.632117

>>632023

>>632044

The Taliban stopped bothering engaging US forces in protracted gun battles within 300 yards/meters. They realized it was an exercise in futility and stupidity because at the range, the 5.56 is more than good enough for American drills to crush them and lock them down.

So Dshk's and PKMs, alongside RPGs and Recoilless Rifles are the primary attack vectors that aren't IEDs. You should see a pattern, its weapons that can deliver lethal force at around a kilometer or greater, excepting the RPG rounds which autodetonate at certain distances. So against American forces, what has been happening is short, intense engagements with light artillery alongside burst of machine gun fire for the suppressing and disrupting effect.

After 10 minutes or less, the Taliban breaks. And during these engagements, the Taliban have gotten very good at trading for favorable casualty ratios. If it wasnt for the ease of Medivac, they'd come out ahead more than not.

Or used to, anyway. Since we have left, it doesn't happen as much.


cc7c76  No.632120

>>632117

>Or used to, anyway. Since we have left, it doesn't happen as much.

Now they're just invading large towns and regional cities.


2ce218  No.632134

>>632023

>>632044

The true question is, dollar-by-dollar who's winning? It's more than expected that a warmachine of the scale and technological level of NATO, with its completely pussified policies regarding human loss, to have much less human casualties than sandy goatfuckers in cave but how much does a human casualty costs NATO in monetary value when there are thousands if not millions of dollars on the soldier's back for his training, equipment and even air-support? If NATO was blindly sending elementary-trained and rudimentary equipped conscripts to the grinder without air-surveillance, Abraams tanks, attack helicopters and A-10s slapping their ass how much more cost effective would that be?


183974  No.632186

>>632134

There's also the fact that the army gets "training" that is hard to get sitting on your ass at home and other consequences. Calculating the benefits/costs gets so much harder with every added year into the future that anything other than short term is practically impossible.


854e9c  No.632238

>>632044

>I think it's about a 1/3rd with rough calculations based on numbers I'm vaguely recalling.

Citation needed.

Based on numbers I'm vaguely recalling NATO lost only 1 soldier to such tactic :^)




File: 48a9981432376af⋯.jpg (772.61 KB, 1620x1620, 1:1, IMG_20181210_221352_968.jpg)

c8005c  No.632102[Reply]

What should my cryptid load out consist of /k/. I'm talking lake monsters, skinwalkers, big foot, and whatever else is in North America

22 posts and 13 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

3d56a1  No.632224

>>632217

>if you exterminate the prey then there's no more sport

Just find another one, duh. Who said the sport category in question isn't genocide? Bongs these days.


3d56a1  No.632225

File: 655de9f81f84093⋯.jpeg (66.72 KB, 640x480, 4:3, s640x480.jpeg)

And if you're on a trip for extermination of the beast but scared that your trusty gun won't be enough or you'll fuck up shot placement there's still a weapon potent enough for any foe.


503ac1  No.632229

>>632224

Doesn't work indefinitely, and leaves none of the fun for your descendants. Communism really did a number on you guys, didn't it.


3d56a1  No.632230

>>632229

It works as long as there are living things. I wanted to offer kebabs to genocide but it seems you bong cucks would be more fun. I'd limit guns to 22lr though, it'd be too boring otherwise.


206379  No.632234

>>632217

>if you exterminate the prey then there's no more sport.

Why can't Jews understand this?

They'll have to contend with T*rkic, N*groid and B*gman foreskins once whites are gone.




File: 25801d897056c75⋯.jpg (38.99 KB, 750x375, 2:1, 5c05bc631a278457ac16bca2-7….jpg)

0220bb  No.631890[Reply]

>muhreens are strapping LAVs to flight decks to shoot small boats with

At least they won't sink and drown when it comes loose and falls off the ship.

13 posts and 3 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

000000  No.632152

Firstly I think that LAV is cute.

That said wtf is this shit? Can't they shoot rockets at the boats? Can't they send a heli out to shoot them? Can those things even aim down enough?

>>632007

Having LAVs around and not using them is arguably more retarded.


0220bb  No.632173

>>632140

>>632130

>>632129

<Combat scenario where a carrier is virtually within arms reach of an enemy ship, which is basically an emergency

>Hey let's put LAVs on the deck that we have to move around all the time instead of having gun emplacements that are ready to fire from any angle

>Oh no the target circled around us, detach the LAV and roll it over there

>Who cares if the jets and choppers are scrambling and the flight crew are running around, just drive straight across the carrier

>What do you mean we need to pack extra weigh in LAV fuel, ammunition and maintenance kits all the time now


22698d  No.632193

>>632173

>implying the LAVs aren't used as highly mobile light ramming platforms against small cargo vessels capable of avoiding collisions with USN Capital ships


0220bb  No.632231

>>632193

>LAV launches itself onto enemy ship to board it when it comes close


22698d  No.632232

>>632231

>LAV launches itself at Somalian pirate vessel so the Somalians don't have to come onboard for gibs




File: 93eadf0d1d34255⋯.jpg (173.38 KB, 800x710, 80:71, Beer Belly Style Conceal C….jpg)

bb6c74  No.629508[Reply]

Hey /k/, what style do you guys usually conceal carry with?

50 posts and 21 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

ccdb40  No.631805

File: b83794660db9ea1⋯.png (Spoiler Image, 130.35 KB, 675x450, 3:2, flag.png)

>>630801

PAfags unite!

True about PA police, I haven't had a real problem with them (yet) but I'm nowhere near Philly either. As I said in the other thread, OC is good for normalizing guns, and that's going to be a huge boon for the gun community.

>>>/k/628735

The idea being that if people are more aware of faggot-free OC in their day to day lives, it becomes cultural. OC has its advantages and disadvantages but overall I encourage it for normalizing the conversation. No minds are changed online ever, but conversation in person about guns, taking people to the range, that helps.

also, if you're not on the Zeemaps >>>/k/510496 or the PA honeypot get on there so networking can continue


82fd77  No.632208

>>631805

I actually did get pulled over in Philly with a gun in my car. I gave him the old "before we speak further, I just wanted you to be aware that I have a licence to carry firearms and I have a loaded handgun in a holster under my passenger seat. I can step out of the car if that would make you more comfortable." He pretty much said "no, that's fine" and didn't mention it again. I handed him my LTCF with my driver's license. Several friends have had trouble with Philly cops acting super aggressive with them while CCing though, but they're the douchey "I KNOW MY RIGHTS! AM I BEING DETAINED?" type who think that rights are like muscles and will atrophy without "exercise."


598fa3  No.632212

>>629513

>open carry

>cops instantly harass you

Don't pretend that we don't live in a police state.


cfeaf2  No.632213

File: b5e10c2678aa1fe⋯.png (730.71 KB, 900x644, 225:161, ClipboardImage.png)

>not using a pen gun

they'll never see it coming


ae5f0d  No.632227




File: bcfe0a3eea7e36d⋯.jpg (638.02 KB, 640x901, 640:901, S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Shadow of C….jpg)

File: 986e5975d6c472a⋯.jpg (124.59 KB, 300x410, 30:41, Red Orchestra 1 Ostfront 4….jpg)

File: d14de4810c6bd6c⋯.jpg (79.53 KB, 477x674, 477:674, Rainbow Six Siege.jpg)

File: 85a046b6edc5079⋯.jpg (131.17 KB, 600x847, 600:847, Wargame Red Dragon.jpg)

File: 39ab2a81396fe56⋯.jpg (1.11 MB, 1330x1650, 133:165, Fallout New Vegas.jpg)

1dd1c3  No.481251[Reply]

So we don't have multiple threads made /v/irgins asking what guns to put in their indie game or multiple threads about the HECU Marines from Half-Life let's have a cyclical thread for contained vidya discussion.

495 posts and 158 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

fd8625  No.631187

File: bd95d502582c12e⋯.png (269.36 KB, 358x390, 179:195, pimg008zeq.png)

>>630877

How the health system works is that you do damage on a specific limb, however once that limb is blacked out, all that damage that would've otherwise gone to the leg gets transferred to the entire body, making kneecapping with the shotgun a viable option.

Although after playing for a year I gotta agree with the bong here >>630882 as I got frustrated with the shit netcode and studdering.


2c5f83  No.631256

>>631153

You have to merge the mod and set the ammo list.


55fd02  No.631265

>>625417

Reminder to play Coitus Ergo Sum and Autumn Leaves if you haven't already. Both very good quest mods that integrate nicely into the game.


a6ce6a  No.631813

>>582184

isn't this just not-siege though?


2cc1f6  No.632221

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

Rising Storm 2 got an Army Men Update

Wished we get a Reboot/Remaster of the Old Games




File: aa9e86067a643c2⋯.jpeg (103.13 KB, 800x600, 4:3, 48F18B58-E4AB-478E-A59A-C….jpeg)

41e274  No.546766[Reply]

Old thread will no longer bump back up to the first page, creating a new one.

Old thread >>530956

495 posts and 113 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.
Post last edited at

00e532  No.632169

>>632145

Rhodesiawassuper has em.


ea0561  No.632179

Why didn't spoon tip rounds catch on?


1715b4  No.632180

>>632179

They don't offer that much beyond good yawing which could be useful but is less efficient than fragmentation or expansion. It could be used to allow fragmenting bullets like M855 to yaw and actually fragment but it's not done because army is stupid. Other than that, there is a good example of non-fragmenting tumbling round - 5.45x39mm with 7N6 bullet - it has empty space in the tip under the jacket that compresses when hitting the target and allowing the bullet to tumble. It performed pretty well but was replaced by an "enhanced penetration" round for different reasons. I don't know how spoon tip bullet shape might affect their flight but if it does it might be just another disadvantage. It might also be more difficult(or just different for current industry) to machine with common copper-jacketed bullets. H&K does have such bullets for their MP7 though, but that's probably because of "expanding ammo" prohibition to the militarizes that would be the only ones who could find it proper use but they are military so just laugh.

So, TL;DR: tumbling is good but soft point is better so why both.


2b418a  No.632210

File: b391f985841f864⋯.gif (898.5 KB, 487x560, 487:560, animu_pepe_hammered.gif)

Are type 1/2/3 garand parts interchangeable? If not which is a best?


170ae3  No.632218

>>632131

What the hell PMC takes retards like this, will they take my fat ass, and how do I contact them if so? Just knowing how to operate an AK seems to put me at a skill level above most of these boomers.




File: 0b626ea4a103980⋯.png (66.17 KB, 277x182, 277:182, ClipboardImage.png)

750c84  No.619520[Reply]

>Belgium said on Thursday it had chosen Lockheed Martin’s (LMT.N) F-35 stealth jets over the Eurofighter Typhoon to replace its aging F-16s in a 4 billion euro ($4.55 billion) deal, saying the decision came down to price.

>After months of deliberation, the decision to buy 34 of the planes was announced at a government news conference. Belgium joins a list of other European NATO allies, including Britain, the Netherlands, Italy and Turkey, to take the American-made plane, which is also set to be the U.S. military’s main fighter aircraft for decades to come. “We have landed! This government is investing heavily in defense. With the purchase of F-35A fighter planes … we ensure your safety and that of our military,” Belgian Defence Minister Steven Vandeput said on Twitter during the news conference. “The offer from the Americans was the best in all our seven evaluation criteria,” he later told reporters.

>CHEAPER THAN PROJECTED

>Prime Minister Charles Michel’s government said despite a strong desire to support European allies, the F-35 was cheaper for Belgium over the long term, coming in 600 million euros ($684 million) under what the government budgeted for.

>The total price of the deal, including the jets, pilot training, hangars and upkeep until 2030 was worth 4 billion euros, Vandeput said, compared with the original budget of 4.6 billion euros. Over the 40-year life of the aircraft, the deal will cost Belgium 12.4 billion euros, rather than the 15 billion euros first projected, he said.

>Belgium looks to have benefited from Lockheed Martin’s strategy to reduce the cost of the jets as production has increased. U.S. President Donald Trump and other U.S. officials have criticized the F-35 program for delays and cost overruns. Each plane is likely to cost Belgium around 76 million euros, slightly less than the amount paid by the Netherlands and Italy, according to Belgian newspaper Le Soir, citing a closed-door briefing by Belgian air force personnel to lawmakers on Wednesday, when the final decision was taken.

>Michel also defended the decisiPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

173 posts and 51 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

260e7e  No.632143

>>632119

>I don't want to fucking find out what an Iraqi level AD grid manned and operated by Serbs could do to 160 F-16s.

>second-rate slavshits with less than 1/5th the military gear worth of pre-DesertStorm Saddam magically shoot down the legendary stealth plane with zero-loss record for over a decade because they got very very very VERY lucky

>they can't shoot down any other plane, including those from countries with zero real combat experience

Yeah, I'd call bullshit if I wasn't to be accused for greatest-ally-bias. If I was allowed to make assumptions I'd say Dutch F-16s were hit but not shot down and judging from the sheer volume of F-16 Holland used they probably did not risk sending even slightly damaged planes back to action.

>>631969

>spends billions of rubles aka tens of thousands of dollars in developing the land-based equivalent of F-35

>actually succeed because you don't try to break physics

>deny yourself the most obvious advantage of the platform, logistic supremacy due to actual and functional commonality of a single chassis for all jobs, because you can't afford long-term planning or food

>throw whatever's left of your budget on the development of bleeding-edge meme-planes with dead-end exportation prospects and methanol-spiked potato vodka

You're not exactly wrong but you should probably shut the fuck up too.


c94c08  No.632194

>>632143

>deny yourself the most obvious advantage of the platform, logistic supremacy due to actual and functional commonality of a single chassis for all jobs, because you can't afford long-term planning or food

What are you on about? They have 132 armata slotted on the 2018-2020 procurement, meaning the way procurement works in Russia they will be able to go full serial prod' (hundred + per year) on the next slot in 2020.

What is not slotted are kurganets/boomerang, but the tank/heavy ifv/recovery vehicles are happening.


260e7e  No.632198

File: d795bbe53266b03⋯.jpeg (79.13 KB, 520x750, 52:75, 35524 - macro putin quest….jpeg)

>>632194

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-14_Armata#Procurement

>In July 2018, Deputy Prime Minister for Defence and Space Industry Yury Borisov said there is currently no need to mass-produce the Armata when its older predecessors, namely the latest variants of the T-72, remain "effective against American, German and French counterparts”, saying, “Why flood our military with Armatas, the T-72s are in great demand on the market(s).”[78][79] Instead, a modernization program of the T-72s, T-80s and T-90s in-service will take precedent.[80] In August 2018, at the ARMY2018 Forum outside Moscow, the Russian Ministry of Defense signed a contract for the purchase of 32 T-14s tanks and 100 T-15 infantry fighting vehicles, with delivery to be finished by 2021.[81]


70c510  No.632199

File: 770b06b30cfb07b⋯.png (23.43 KB, 613x112, 613:112, Screenshot at 2018-12-11 1….png)

>>632194

>132 armata slotted on the 2018-2020 procurement

Eat shit you filthy ukrobot, Mother Russia is gonna get 2300 Armatas before 2020.


c94c08  No.632214

>>632198

>Politician

>Not talking out of his ass.

The fact that they did order a brigade worth of them a month latter after he said that should tell you all you need to know about Borisov.

Russia has 12 defense ministers, 1 actual minister, 2 first deputy ministers, 9 deputy ministers. And you have more for industry, and then you have "deputy prime ministers" which aren't actually part of the defense ministry but part of the prime minister cabinet (which has little sway at large and even less on matters of defense, as the ministry of defense report directly to the president and not the prime minister). Russia has easily a couple of hundred of "ministers".

>>632199

>MSM

>not being completely retarded.

The number 2300 armored vehicles in 5 years sounds about right (it was 180 MBTs and 300 IFVs this year before the end of the year spike in delivery) but no one sane actually though it was going to be the shit whose prototype weren't even done and there was no provision in the 2011-2016 budget for.

Reality just doesn't work that way, I know that being Ukrainian and all you don't have the best grasp on that.




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