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/arda/ - Tolkien's Legendarium

All things J.R.R. Tolkien and Middle-Earth


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A wizard is never late. Nor is he early; he arrives precisely when he means to.

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Previous BO abandoned the board, I've claimed it to keep it free from spam. Post suggestions/meta comments, complaints and questions here.

2 posts omitted. Click reply to view.



No idea. I noticed the spam was getting a bit out of control and wondered if BO had quit. Checked the claimable boards list, lo and behold /arda/ was on there.

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I thought we should have an art thread, so here it is

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I was thinking of this passage from the Two Towers:

>Full description of every article, garment, weapon, letter, ring. or trinket is to be sent to Lugbúrz at once, and to Lugbúrz only. And the prisoner is to be kept safe and intact, under pain of death for every member of the guard, until He sends or comes Himself.

I suppose it didnt mean he was on his way per se, but I always thought of it as that.



It doesn't seem impossible that Sauron was up and about, but based on how the good guys' plan hinged on Sauron assuming the Ring was in Gondor, and how Sauron's metaphorical gaze apparently emanating from his tower is implied to turn from the battle at Black Gate to Mount Doom when Frodo and pals are there, I'd say it would have been a Nazgul or some lesser lieutenant that would have gone to check the ruckus at Cirith Ungol. The orc report wasn't about the Ring, but some elf or sneaky dwarf, after all.

My interpretation is based on the image I have of Sauron at the time as a demented gaffer that has had one too many hits to his head, and really doesn't want to risk another costly bodily death by leaving his tower ever again, similarly to how Morgoth was in the end. I imagine dueling with an elf lord at an unimportant mountain pass would have been one the last things he would have wanted to do.



True. Didn't work out too well for Morgoth when he tried to look like a tough guy in front of his minions when Fingolfin challenged him.

Thinking about it more, it does only mean that the guards of Cirith Ungol were told to report the capture of prisoners and if they had any rings, doesn't mean the message got sent before orcs gonna orc and they all killed each other



>if they had any rings

This part throws me off a bit. How common is the audience supposed to think magical rings actually are? A lot of the behaviour of the characters (like Gandalf taking his sweet time even though he was aware of a ring that turned mortals invisible) only makes sense if there's plenty of magical rings to go around, but we only get to read about the sauronic sixteen plus Three plus One, and Saruman's failed(?) attempts, if I recall correctly.



Magic rings are rare. There are some lesser ones other than the rings of power though.

I think you misread the passage though, it doesn't mean magic rings, it just says report all of their possessions. I only mentioned specifically rings in my reply because it was the only part that was relevant.

Sauron's troops are told to report all clothes, letters, rings etc to disguise what Sauron is actually looking for. IIRC only the nazgul were aware of the ring of power because they couldn't act against Sauron. If the orcs and evil men were told "Hey keep an eye out for this magic ring our Lord needs for his power" then every single soldier in Mordor's armies would be plotting to steal it if it showed up.

TL;DR Magic rings are rare, but not so impossibly rare that Gandalf shat his pants when Bilbo did a magic trick with one and Sauron was hiding his true objectives

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Post your favorite Tolkien related music.

Stuff from movie or game soundtracks, recreations of songs that are in the books, songs that mention Tolkien characters, etc.

Here is Tolkien himself singing "Namarie" (Galadriel's Lament in Lorien)


For those that haven't heard of it, check out "The Road Goes Ever On" song cycle.


>With Tolkien's approval, Donald Swann wrote the music for this song cycle

>The sole exception is the Quenya song "Namárië," which was based on a tune by Tolkien himself

Led Zeppelin famously has a few references to Tolkien's work in their songs. "Ramble On" being the most obvious one with it's mentions of Mordor and Gollum.


Billy Boyd's "The Last Goodbye" he wrote for Jackson's shitty Hobbit movies is gorgeous.


And I love the soundtracks to the LOTR movie trilogy so much I'm actually having trouble choosing a track to post.

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Me too, I could've sworn I'd posted their take on the Song of Durin in here.


It absolutely was. I re-watched Fellowship the other day, and Howard Shore hit it right on the money with the score.



Howard Shore's best work in my view.



No matter your opinion on the movies, the soundtrack was a masterpiece.


YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

This is my favorite version of this song.


YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

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ITT: Everyone's got at least one thing they didn't like about the films that they want to complain about.

For once, there is a place where this is exactly what the thread is for.

For me, it was Grond. In the films, it hits the doors of Minas Tirith three times & knocks them down. In the books, it hits it until its carriers are killed by arrows–then the Witch King talks to it and it gets up on its own and smashes the gates so hard both gate and ram explode.

It was extremely vivid in my mind. What I got was utterly forgettable, not worthy of a million orcs chanting its fucking name as it rolls up.

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for derivative action movies, they were decent, but they did not capture the books.


>I've always wanted to see a good film adaption of LOTR. I know many people say that Tolkein just doesn't translate into film, but I would disagree. A good faithful translation of LOTR into film, I think, is very possible, just not finanially. And it likely wont happen until some billionaire Tolkein fan decides that the current Films weren't enough.

I think the best adaptation would be a feature-length animation. something along the lines of a studio ghibli film, but in a style like 1940s Disney.



Yeah, animation is the way to go. Btw the 70s animated movies is quite good.



bring back rotoscoping for it and make it solidly more anglo-saxon esque



This. People barely care that its happening in the film. In the book you can feel the war hanging over everyone's heads before fighting even begins.



What about Yvette Mimieux? She was really beautiful.

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Post any audiobooks you can find.

The Lord of the Rings J.R.R. Tolkien Audiobook Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF_ZgQREQrU

AUDIOBOOK J.R.R. Tolkien The Silmarillion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDvzzVUzR0s


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It was the Children of Hurin. It's really a joy to listen to. You feel like you're there with the characters. Unfortunately, you can only find it on Audible because YT removed it. Would be great if someone shared it *nudge nudge*.


'''Unfinished Tales (2000) narrated by Erin Jones: BARD: Braille and Audio Reading Download




Audiobooks: Tolkien Gateway

There have been several Audiobook editions of J.R.R. Tolkien's work. Years refer to the most recent reissue.



The Hobbit read by Nicol Williamson




Here's a magnet link for it :^)

J. R. R. Tolkien - 2007 - The Children of Hurin [V0]

Read by Sir Christopher Lee


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ayy ulmo

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the chainmail was better.

Nobody in the Silm wears plate because it hadn't been invented yet. The dwarves made chain and sold it, and that's how they became rich.

until the noldor arrived and copied them



I wouldn't be too eager to take any mention of any technology of the texts set in Third Age times as definitive about the technology used in-setting. Tolkien emulated the style of epics and romances, in which the people of the writer's past are often presented to have been close the same as the writer's contemporaries. People of the late Third Age used chain mail, ergo the text "written" by them feature chain-mail. Who knows what kind of armour (near-)divine smiths actually made in the hoary olden days?



*set in times earlier than Third Age


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yeah, middle earth is pretty much a chainmail and spangenhelm setting but i would make an exception for melkor, because he is a god. think about it as him wearing tectonic plates hardened by fire and ice from hell on himself.

as far as i am concerned this guys designs are canon. as in, elves gods, spirits and all that other shit can wear clothes and armor made from leafs, shells and a sound of a stream (or at least can make it look like this) but noldor, humans and dwarfs still go for chainmail in 99% of cases because it is easier to mass produce

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I'm quite curious to what this board's thoughts and comments on the series is. Also things found interesting.

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>He left her our of pity because he did not want her to experience growing old and frail while he was still a dashing young elf, the love could only have ended in sorrow.

How is it supposed to have worked out with Aragorn and Arwen?



Arwen turned into a human (or more accurately a half-elf Man like his uncle), similarly to Luthien, and died like a dog mortal. Blanda'ing up literally severs elven maidens from the spirits of their ancestors. Well, at least if divine exceptions are involved; Mithrellas presumably fucked off completely fine.


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I think you're not making it clear enough that Arwen is able to choose to be a human or an elf because she is descended from Eärendil whose descendants are the only ones that can freely make a choice like that.


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Now that I think about it though, if Elrond's descendants can choose to become human, why couldn't Elros's descendants choose to become an elf.



Arwen's case was straight up cheating. Live for thousands of years and then decide to be mortal and still have a few centuries to go? Arwen should have popped out her kids out while still an Elf, so Eldarion could have ruled as an Elf for a few millennia. Use the palantir to enact Golden Path, turn into a were-worm.


Eru is a dick. Ar-Pharazon did nothing wrong.

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Tolkien's elves served as an ideal to strive for. They were presented as beautiful, guardians of heritage and history, trustworthy and idealistic. This thread examines the post-modernist war against fantasy.

Post-modernism: A late 20th-century movement characterized by broad skepticism, subjectivism, or relativism; a general suspicion of reason; and an acute sensitivity to the role of ideology in asserting and maintaining political and economic power.

Deconstruction: A philosophical movement and theory of literary criticism that questions traditional assumptions about certainty, identity, and truth; asserts that words can only refer to other words; and attempts to demonstrate how statements about any text subvert their own meanings.

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W1 was bearable because the writers were pretty fair to the elves. Didn't bother with W2 because of the pornographic sex scenes and torture although Iorweth cutscenes were nice. The only thing good about W3 is the music and elf women models.


Another qt3.14 elfu wasted smh.

Didn't buy the Elder Scrolls games because the Bosmer (Wood Elves) are cannibals. The reason given for why they eat humans and other self-aware creatures is that they don't want anything to go to waste or something. Bioware is also pozzed.


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Dragon Age is is one of the worst offenders. Elves are basically medieval Jews.




For one, there's the ballad that inspired Goethe's work. Note that both of them follow the story of "Elf as monster that might represent the Heathen."



>Olav rides out at dawn and comes upon elves dancing in the woods. One of the elf maids invites him to dance with her, but he refuses and tells her that he is to be married the next day. She puts a fatal sickness on him. When he comes home he is dying. He expresses his last wishes.

It sounds very similar to the lyrics of the Swedish ballad "Herr Mannelig" where instead of an elf you have a female troll trying to seduce a man. I agree with the idea of them representing heathens.

The Faerie Queene is a Renaissance work and had, for the first time, elves as the main characters and heroes battling against orcs.


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It's unfortunate that so many LOTR games were made by EA who are notorious for pump and dump development. You can't find any of their releases on Steam.

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>Hollywood movie directed by a man whose claim to fame is directing a Finnish version of "The Hangover", a movie about a skinhead who falls in love with a former coalburner, and the Tom of Finland movie.

I hadn't even heard of this until I saw the poster for it the other day. Were you guys aware of this and just ignoring it because you knew it would be shit?

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Yes but I don't see how that is related to this thread.


I only began seeing commercials for it about a week ago. It looks shitty and they try waaaaay too hard in them to go, "See! See! Tolkien, you know, the Lord of The Rings guy! Fiery CGI (that probably barely shows up in the movie to be fair) and shit!"

I'll still probably torrent it once it comes out on Blu-Ray, though.



I think a relevant place to talk about having seen the film would be a thread about the film.


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Saw it. It's about JRRT reflecting on his life while in the trenches of WWI. Some of the shots are kino as heck, I could take a couple of stills from this movie and frame them on my wall.

Edith is cute, but pushy.

The best parts are him screwing around with his friends in the TCBS.

Good flick, but little /arda/ unless you're curious about how he discussed his ideas when they were in their infancy.



>a man whose claim to fame is directing a Finnish version of "The Hangover"

Absolute state of Finland. The Tolkien family make it clean that they didn't want to be associated with that atrocity.

Tolkien's heirs were right to disapprove of plodding biopic: he deserves better

While Tolkien’s school days certainly had an effect on the writer he would become, his experience of war and comradeship was surely more than just a beastly and brutish episode in his overall development. Tolkien’s heirs made clear before the film arrived that they disapproved of it and they were right: he deserves better.


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Too long didn't read: Being Anti-Elf is codeword for Anti-White.

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some of those are wrong. no elves liked fortresses, caves or anything else. they are definitely forest associated.



You brought up the witcher in the other thread.

It's probably because I don't read modern fantasy novels, but I've noticed all these negative elf stereotypes in memes more than in any actual works. Off the top of my head, the elder scrolls is a serious with asshole elves, particularly the high elves, because high = bad if you're a normalfag writer. The Eldar from W40k also seem to be assholes.



Didn't the Noldor love building fortesses eg Gondolin? Doriath's main city was caves too.



Close to all notable Elven settlement was a cave or a fortress, often both. Sindar build what was pretty much bunkers, and Noldor build castles even in peaceful Aman like Eru damned autists. Lothlorien is a distinct exception, and the explicit reason for that is presence of powerful magic. Legolas points out that the stone of Eregion remembers the Noldor, not the trees. Clearly they weren't that much into the forests.



Spotted the fa/tg/uy

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can we have a thread on middle earth themed vidya? pre-jackson films games more specifically

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it always bugged me how shitty the SNES game was

always wanted Square to make a turn-based Chrono-Trigger/FF style game out of LOTR



That'd be fucking great. Square made great RPGs back then.



Isn't that what the Third Age was? I'm replaying it right now and I think it's still pretty good if you overlook the fact that the story makes no real sense and the dialogue sounds like it was written by a braindead monkey, at least in the German version.



>shitty reading comprehension on a Tolkien board

How is this possible?


YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.


Turns out there was quite a few of them

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why are you celebrating tolkenism and tolkien based fantasy

instead of wishing it to end and die

we need to revive the fantasy genre

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Mods ban these shitposters please



>we need to come up with new things anon

>we being someone who isn't me

Start writing or shut the fuck up, you obviously have no intention of bringing about any of this "needed" work.


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>Waaahhh ban the posters. I don't like discussion.



Stop shitting up the board asshole, discuss LOTR/Silmarillion without bringing up irrelevant shit or fuck off.


Tolkien's elves were mariners and other-worldly. Belegaer is the threshold between worlds like water was thought of by celts and norse. I think all elves had the sea longing, so that if they heard a gull, they could never be still again. Nobody's done much with that part of them.

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Reminder that just because Manwe granted Elrond the fate of elves doesn't make him a real elf.

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Nothing wrong with being a dog



saged and reported for D&C shilling




t. Sauron


Why didn't Ilúvatar bitchslap some sense into Morgoth.



>Thinks he's not falling for the argument from abstraction or it's cousin the continuum fallacy

<Literally appeals to the continuum fallacy

>He thinks pointing out the fact that materialist models literally CANNOT explain consciousness in any way, shape or form is saying consciousness "is magic"

How did such a brainlet ever make it through a book as long as the lord of the rings?

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Mountain crossing



Musta been one helluva climb

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Let's post and discuss it.

I will begin :

>Melkor can't create life only Eru can really create. Which mean all being depends on God, even the devils being, Melkor only being able to sing his partition God gave him by distorting. Only God being able to create ex nihilo, the mystery of the souls being God's secret.

>Melkor is attracted by the void,… The evil is only void, which comes from traditional theology (the wrong is just a lack of being). I think Tolkien took that from saint Thomas Aquinas. Sins being the fact of being attracted to less being.

>Eru say to Melkor (Satan) he is just making the song that is cosmological history better whith what he think is in opposition. There is no opposition possible to God and his salvation plan, all will be his servant, even against their will.

>Gandalf say he have pity of orc

>inb4 : Tolkien said he didn't made a theological work.

We should not find theological points everywhere in Tolkien's work, that would be abuse as it's not a traditional myth, but we should find good christian moral points like the last I putted. Feel free to post them.

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You're that one guy from those other threads aren't you?



Indeed, and that he didn't think theologically in the first time.

Also the fact he dismissed allegories is quite interesting. Allegories are none traditional subjective and poor symbols. And he was thinking in symbols. That's a big difference between mythological high-quality stories and poor fantasy work. Religion/traditional thinking don't use allegories but symbols. I think it prove his superiority over all others after him.


I posted in the thread about Tolkien's opinion on jews.



“I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations, and always have done so since I grew old and wary enough to detect its presence. I much prefer history – true or feigned– with its varied applicability to the thought and experience of readers. I think that many confuse applicability with allegory, but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the purposed domination of the author.”



>varied applicability to the thought & experience of its readers

This is the keystone of the question of inner meaning in JRRT’s legendarium. None was put in deliberately, with a desire to preach (like say Narnia or Pilgrim’s Progress).

Instead, he stated that he knew these themes were widespread in western literature and should be embraced & contemplated-upon. It is not wrong to say “X symbolizes Y”, only to say “Tolkien meant X to mean Z, so all other evaluations are invalid”.


>Gandalf day he have pity of orc

Don’t forget guys: pitiable ≠ deserving

Being a victim does not entitle one to anything

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