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/arda/ - Tolkien's Legendarium

All things J.R.R. Tolkien and Middle-Earth


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A wizard is never late. Nor is he early; he arrives precisely when he means to.

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1. Board is for anything Tolkien related, even if that thing happens to be shitty Hollywood adaptations of books about hobbits. So stuff like /tg/ homebrews is fine as well.

2. No spamming the board.

Feel free to post banners, ideas for quotes for the board announcements, or other stuff you feel goes there.

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Post last edited at



Honestly never expected to get even one poster, but back when the board started someone did an ad and I guess that took off.

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How should I feel about this? The gateway has never steered me wrong before.


I don't understand the question.

Are you asking after the authenticity of the map or the message in the letter? I no longer have my copy of the Letters to JRR Tolkien, so I can't cross-check it for you, but maybe someone else on the site can.



That'd be great, but ultimately the ents like all things "magical" are destined to fade away. It can't be helped.


If you’re looking for a justification that the ents could have survived to the modern day, JRRT always left things open-ended for a reason. If there’s a story to tell, then any of the old “fantastical” creatures could turn up as part of it.



Aren't all the Ents just dormant?

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Post your favorite Tolkien related music.

Stuff from movie or game soundtracks, recreations of songs that are in the books, songs that mention Tolkien characters, etc.

Here is Tolkien himself singing "Namarie" (Galadriel's Lament in Lorien)


For those that haven't heard of it, check out "The Road Goes Ever On" song cycle.


>With Tolkien's approval, Donald Swann wrote the music for this song cycle

>The sole exception is the Quenya song "Namárië," which was based on a tune by Tolkien himself

Led Zeppelin famously has a few references to Tolkien's work in their songs. "Ramble On" being the most obvious one with it's mentions of Mordor and Gollum.


Billy Boyd's "The Last Goodbye" he wrote for Jackson's shitty Hobbit movies is gorgeous.


And I love the soundtracks to the LOTR movie trilogy so much I'm actually having trouble choosing a track to post.

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Something by Clamavi de Profundis maybe?



YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.


>Clamavi de Profundis

Those guys are amazing. I'm surprised this is the first mention in the thread.



The only good thing about the Hobbit was getting more fan stuff made about the dwarven side of Middle-Earth. Art work, music, etc.

Tolkien always envisioned the Secondary World as a mythology other artists could contribute towards.


YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

Call me a faggot for not being a contrarian but the movies' music was amazing.



Me too, I could've sworn I'd posted their take on the Song of Durin in here.


It absolutely was. I re-watched Fellowship the other day, and Howard Shore hit it right on the money with the score.

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>If they have Sex with an unmarried person, they basically just completed their wedding ceremony and they become husband-elf and wife-elf.

>Also if you rape Elves they soul goes into so much shock that they outright leave their body and die

>Also Elves would probably be extremely against Abortion of Elven Children with probably a "what race is it", if it comes to Mordor-Immigrants, because they think that life starts the moment semen leaves the balls and hits the egg inside the She-Elf.

>Because instead of birthdays, the Elves celebrate the day they were fucked into existance.

>Also it's completly impossible to ever get a divorce with your Elven-Waifu.

>Not even in the afterlife.

>If you managed to fuck an Elf consentually, she will follow you into the human version of the Afterlife to be with you forever. There is no escaping your waifu.

>I also doubt they have the concept of martial rape, so even that loophole wouldn't save you from her either.

So you might think that Elves probably don't have Sex a lot, if they can pinpoint the day they had sex at 1 year ago, which is true, but your Elf-Waifu would probably have enough sense of duty to fullfill her martial duties with you as a Human.

Anyway I am not so sure about the rape loophole though, so better hope that it's not rape according to the feminist definition of rape.

Btw Elves are at a very limited expiration date by times they appear in the book, because they start to fade into the spritual world. So they become invisible. But that doesn't necessarily have to put and end to the possibility of marrying an Elf.

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You're full of shit. I'd like to see some citations.



Who is this woman?


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Okay, you got me



>If you managed to fuck an Elf consentually, she will follow you into the human version of the Afterlife to be with you forever. There is no escaping your waifu.

This is incorrect. Only one elf, Lúthien, ever died Man's death.

Death is something only Men can do in Tolkien's works. Elves linger as fae spirits or journey to Valinor, either by dying and going to the Halls of Mandos, or by boat and taking the straight road.



>Tolkien portrays interracial marriage as something tragic.

Depends on your view of tragic.

Beren and Lúthien had a good end, if you have faith in what comes after Arda, which the books call the reader to have of course.

Tuor and Idril we don't exactly know. Men say he shared Idril's fate as an Eldar, but nobody knows what became of them.

Eärendil and Elwing both chose to be counted amongst the Eldar.

Aragon and Arwen the same as Beren and Lúthien.

The only ones that can be considered tragic are the two marriages between the princes of Dol Amroth and elven maidens. It happened twice in that family, both times the maidens disappeared after birthing the second child.

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I'm asking this as somebody new to Tolkien's works. Besides the Hobbit and LotR, which of his other works should I read next?

Anything that isn't directly Middle-earth related but still in the same spirit?

I heared some of his posthumously published works got changed, anything I should avoid?

Lastly, are there any books worth reading that are based on- or about his works but written by somebody else?



You gotta read The Silmarillion next my man.



>my man

What is this reddit?



No, this is his man apparently.



Don't they call everyone "good sir"?



>I heared some of his posthumously published works got changed, anything I should avoid?

No. The posthumous stuff is edited by his son. You can say a lot of things about Christopher Tolkien, but he has profound respect for his father's work. Anything where he's the editor, you can't go wrong.

Silmarillion, Beren and Lúthien. Children of Húrin are all top. Definitely recommend them.

Also recommend the 10th volume of History of Middle-Earth, called Morgoth's Ring. It is perhaps the most important academic work about the theological aspects of Tolkien's world.

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can we have a thread on middle earth themed vidya? pre-jackson films games more specifically

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He's saying that there weren't many video games that directly adapted Middle Earth, which is correct. There were plenty that indirectly ripped it off, however.


Just play Sil. It's probably the most faithful derivative work that exists.




Yeah, you can even make oaths in it


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it always bugged me how shitty the SNES game was

always wanted Square to make a turn-based Chrono-Trigger/FF style game out of LOTR



That'd be fucking great. Square made great RPGs back then.

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>The Company of the Ring shall be Nine, and the Nine Walkers shall be set against the Nine Riders that are evil

The only reason the Fellowship didn't have any high elven champions was Elrond's pointless (were they going take turns fighting the nazguls one on one?) number autism after all the slots were taken by the useless midget package and some dudes that happened to be going in the same general direction on their way home. Glorfindel might not have been able to storm Barad-dûr, but he sure could have tag-teamed the balrog with Gandalf. No bullshit about Gandalf being meant to die at Moria. That divine providence nonsense gets contrived enough with God's plans hinging on a random hobbit letting a dangerous critter live for no apparent reason century before its completely unpredictable actions end up being needed in a completely unforseen context.

After this reread, I have become convinced the Wise just didn't give a shit. Elrond propably was indifferent to whether Sauron won or not as both eventualities would have been unpleasant for him personally. Sauron is defeated, Elrond loses his retirement home and daughter; Sauron wins, Elrond slowly loses his clientele but doesn't have to wait to the end of the physical universe before reuniting with his daughter.

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Túrin‘s shitshow was a direct result of Morgoth turning the world against him because he held a grudge against his dad.


“The number must be few, since your hope is in

speed and secrecy. Had I a host of Elves in armour

of the Elder Days, it would avail little, save to

arouse the power of Mordor.”



Except that isn't the case at all. Eru only ever truly interfered once, by sinking Numenor.

All the other little things like Bilbo finding the ring, that was all the result of the third melody of the Music, the inclusion of free will and the two races.

To say the elves have no free will is wrong either. Both elves and men have free will. It's just elves by nature are bound to Arda and so their actions are turned towards it, while men's are turned more inward towards their own gain and glory at worst, and towards the greater concepts like freedom, discovery, and so forth at best.



>In the published Silmarillion

>Even the slanderous version we get to see in Akallabêth

I realise you might probably be long gone, but would you mind expanding upon why you hate the published Silmarillion so much?



He meant to say that the religion that Sauron was peddling was slanderous, not that the Silmarillion was bad. I think.

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ITT: Everyone's got at least one thing they didn't like about the films that they want to complain about.

For once, there is a place where this is exactly what the thread is for.

For me, it was Grond. In the films, it hits the doors of Minas Tirith three times & knocks them down. In the books, it hits it until its carriers are killed by arrows–then the Witch King talks to it and it gets up on its own and smashes the gates so hard both gate and ram explode.

It was extremely vivid in my mind. What I got was utterly forgettable, not worthy of a million orcs chanting its fucking name as it rolls up.

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The fact that during Helm's Deep battle, nobody knew where the fuck Gandalf was, no warning about "the dawn of third day". He just seemed to have vanished when the danger came close, exactly what Wormtongue accused him of doing, at the point that even Theoden doubted again



I think all bets are off when considering where Gandalf's innate powers begin and Narya's powers end. There is just not enough to be certain about - just the way I like my magic.



I agree, especially as Gandalf had even told Aragon but it's never mentioned or thought of again until he actually shows up



I felt like Gandalf didn't know if he'd be able to bring Eromer's forces or not, depending on what the situation was like in the east eastemnet.



Which is why the Amazon TV show initially sounded like a good idea to me, because if you'd do it as a show you'd really be able to cover everything.


>The wargs in the films were terrible and looked like hyenas.

That was part of the point, they wanted to make them a bit more interesting than just giant wolves. Not sure I'm a big fan of the design, but I appreciate it.


I think part of that was giving Gimli a real character. I haven't read the books in a while, but maybe that even proves my point - I can't remember a whole lot about him or his character, except when he talks about the stone in Helm's Deep.

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>Gimli is a legendary bisexual icon

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That doesn't make them good.



What I remember from "the spirit of the books" is Elrond treasured his only daughter beyond measure. That he would so casually allow her to face THE ENTIRE GODDAMN NINE RINGWRAITHS alone (or is Elrond being completely oblivious in his very domain at the time when darkness is on the rise yet again not contradicting "the spirit of the books" now?) sealed the deal for me. But the first major thing was when one of the Nazgul was flailing about trying to catch two hobbits running between his horse's legs. What's so scary about them in the movie? In the books, they remain the biggest palpable threat for quite a while. Here they are a joke. Admittedly, this would explain why Elrond didn't care about Arwen paying them a social visit in that Benny Hill-esque chase.



I think you're being a bit too harsh on the chase scenes with the hobbits. They were fine as is. As for Arwen, while it's true merging her role with Glorfindel was one of the lesser changes, considering what the kikes wanted to do with the character, it's still amazing Jackson and whomever else veto'd that shit got what they did.

For reference, they wanted her fighting in Helm's Deep, in case you weren't aware.


Homosexuality doesn't exist in Tolkien's Universe.



Wait what. WTF is this ugly thing?


The shitty online game tried to make it canon from what I recall to boost their popularity.

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When and how did the Elves figure out incest was bad? They already have the taboo against cousin-kissing when there was barely any cousins to kiss around. Preference for exogamy in the elven nobility is easy to explain: relatives became instant friends and allies. Fëanor's sons never had many friends outside other Noldor. Still, it doesn't explain the strict ban on cousin-marriages. Many a woe would have been avoided if they would have let the resident Elliot Rodger Maeglin score. Him being a mongrel person of diverse heritage, it shouldn't have resulted in harelips just yet.

Or perhaps it would. Negative recessive traits perhaps don't fit the description of Elves healthier in body than humans, but neither are they perfect. Maybe original orcs were what happened when Elves inbred. It would fit Tolkien's inspiration of orcs from the low class scum of Britain. Blaming Melkor for the creation of orcs might not be entirely correct; it could have been the hillbilly Avari fucking their sisters that started the orcish blight.



Yavanna probably told em it was bad I imagine.



Orcs weren't based on British underclass.

Also the distaste for cousin fucking is a universal thing across all cultures. Nobody is exactly sure why we know it's bad, but we just do.

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I saw your ad on /a/.

There are loli elves in Tolkien's works, right?

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Depends on the loli elf.

Also they might be older than you but they're not necessarily mature. It's not properly explained if a loli elf that's technically older than a regular man (usually elves reach adulthood in Tolkien about a hundred years into life) will be more mature or adult like than a human who's an adult.



>usually elves reach adulthood in Tolkien about a hundred years into life

Bullshit. There's nothing that shows Elves don't mature physically and mentally just like humans. And Dior became the king of Doriath at 32, so the elves clearly don't have any stigma about such youth either.



Dior was half-elven.

Read Morgoth's Ring. The elven life cycle is explained there. Failing tha:




>He was pretty waifufag about it

>it being his actual wife

What the fuck does that mean?




>nature spirits.


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Be honest. How many of you wanted to get into creative writing after reading Tolkien?

and if you're really feeling gutsy/masochistic, tell us what you wrote.

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Alright, I decided to do it. I've made an intro so far (linked), and I'm working on the first script now! I know the Palantiri isn't the greatest subject, but I want to slowly bring people from things they're familiar with from the Jackson films into topics from the first age, always tying them in and hinting at the deeper topics to come.




Fancy intros aside what about your voice anon.

You better have a deep booming voice like Sir Christopher Lee.



I can do an appropriate voice. I'm just slowed down and intimidated by failure because I did some searching and there are already like 10 videos very similar to what I had in mind.



Modern Fantasy (AKA nu-fantasy) really is just a shitty theme-park version of Tolkien's work.

I don't know why /tg/fags like it so much. Probably for the futa-orc porn


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Pic related from another thread on /arda/. Just building on what you guys are saying.

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Argue with pic related.

>Protip: you can't

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Good deeds without good intentions doesn't give merit. At best Fëanor considered the second arrivals rivals, though maybe he would have changed his mind if given a chance to get quickly replenishing minions to sic at his enemies.

Related, for all their sins the sons of Fëanor were the only Eldar who bothered uplifting humans that didn't already resemble elves in appearance. Too bad the cosmic providence didn't deem non-whites fit for salvation and got all of the elendili easterlings killed (did they take their women and children to Nírnaeth Arnoediad? Talk about dedication.)



>example for keeping the elven birth rate high

The guy sure could fuck. All these children make me imagine the elves banging in Valinor all the time, and the fact that Tolkien never even alludes to sex just makes me want to think about it even more like a forbidden fruit.



Most elven couples seem to get their kicks from staring each other under starlight or sitting next to each other in fancy throne rooms or at the feet of gods. It doesn't help that giving birth seems to be dangerous (sometimes even lethal, but mostly just draining) to elven women and I doubt they would ever even consider contraception. Because Feanor was described as obsessed with his work, this makes me believe Nerdanel was a rare sex fiend among the Eldar (she was a redhead after all).



It's pretty much confirmed Nerdanel was as hotheaded as him, just more calm about it (the old adage that women are suppose to be the emphatic ones and temper men and what not).

Also her vitality was through the roof. It's stated giving birth to seven kids was unheard of and will likely never happen again as far as elves are concerned.



>The guy sure could fuck. All these children make me imagine the elves banging in Valinor all the time, and the fact that Tolkien never even alludes to sex just makes me want to think about it even more like a forbidden fruit.

dont forget that they are immortal and there could be long interval between each birth/fuck

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>lord of dicks

You soyboys will never be as fashy as the warhammerfags. You cucks will never be real men. This frenchise is literally to warhammer what Soytar Wars is for warhammer 40k


Ikr? Age of Sigmar is fukkin BASED


Especially in the Silmarillion the orcs were just cannon fodder for the elves. They were only ever effective when they VASTLY outnumber their enemies like with Turin's little band of warriors.


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I'm pretty sure you're actually a TolkienAutist but even so


>anything but shit


Well Tolkien's Elves were superhuman



>You soyboys will never be as fashy as the warhammerfags

You're right, we're proper old school monarchists, aka, the only form of government the hwite man should follow.

Decentralized kingship is best form of rulership. Ride eternal with the Rohirrim! Forth Eorlingas!




Alt-kike pls go.

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Hey guys, I keep seeing wankers posting this and can't think of a logical reason for why they're wrong.

"Why didn't they just fly on the eagles to Mordor with the ring?"

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I don't see how the faggots who post that could have missed the fact that the Nazgul fly around on winged beasts and that the forces of Sauron have many archers, which the eagles fear. That's not even getting into the idea of birds ratting them out to Sauruman.



What is most important in myth is the consistency of the message and morals, not necessarily the plot or rules of the world. Even then, you can justify why the eagles didn't take the ring.

But ultimately the only justification you need is that to tell his tale, the eagles couldn't be used. To put forth the story of Frodo and the Ring, and the themes and morals it carries, the eagles couldn't be used.

I'm sure if you look there's plenty of loopholes in other mythological tales. LOTR is more a story like say, Bëowulf than it is a modern fiction.



LoTR is still a modern work despite its influences and doesn't get a pass on such shortcomings as the works of the ancients do, as all works are always written in the context of their times. "Just because" hasn't been valid in serious storytelling for centuries. And it hardly can be claimed the eagle conundrum was a stylistic choice. Well, it can be claimed, but I wouldn't say this particular aspect is part of the emulation of the multilayered construction of myths, when Frodo or Sam is supposed to be an in-story author of their own rescue. The eagle part can't really be an addition from a later in-setting author because that would mean Frodo and Sam died at Mount Doom and wouldn't have been able to relay their part of the story.



Because of Fellbeasts, the withering gaze of the Eye of Sauron, the ring's corrupting properties, other flying creatures Sauron may have had.



> "Just because" hasn't been valid in serious storytelling for centuries

Why is that? Because we became obsessed with the material rather than the moral. I think a consequence of that is attempts to create consistency in a work that, by all rights, should rather focus on deliver a sound message.

Also, you're confusing. I'm not saying that it should be taken as internal mythology, but external. Tolkien wasn't as much worried with consistency necessarily (although he was extremely consistent, even his languages had consistent progression from old quenta to "modern" third age Sindarin), but rather with the delivery of a message and the telling of a tale.

It isn't even my words here. Tolkien stated that he didn't use the eagles because otherwise, there'd be no story.

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