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/agdg/ - Amateur Game Development General

AGDG - The Board
Winner of the 77nd Attention-Hungry Games
/x/ - Paranormal Phenomena and The RCP Authority

April 2019 - 8chan Transparency Report
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File: 1d885aa9de3cccb⋯.jpg (23.46 KB, 390x380, 39:38, 9ca.jpg)

50a779  No.32232

What's your thoughts on making collectibles and power ups skill based as opposed to grinding based?

The GBA Castlevania games have lots of attacks you gain from grinding enemies until their soul drops. This makes it so if you want a specific attack you have to find a spot it spawns and go full murder hobo until it drops. Even with low drop rates you can pretty much get anything with a ranged attack and enough time to waste.

The other option I was looking at was closer to pokemon. You find a monster you want or an ability you want and then you have to weaken it without killing it. Then you have a chance to capture it (which varies based on capture items). It requires a little grinding if the enemy is rare and doesn't show up often but it's mostly about having the skill to not kill it and preparing in advance with items needed to capture it.

What's /adgd/'s thoughts on these systems? Which would you suggest works better or what alternatives would you recommend in enemy based ability collection?

0c457f  No.32233


If you're skilled enough to get a special item, you need it less than someone who was unable to get it. Giving powerups through grinding works as a crutch for people who don't have the skill to make do without it.

50a779  No.32234


That is true but it also means higher complexity if you can unlock it. It gives high level players many options which they can combo together while the unskilled will have a basic move set that "just works" for them.

d13702  No.32235

Stop being a cancerfag making games more approachable for low effort faggots. Make games masculine again.

50a779  No.32236


Which is more masculine?

e0c736  No.32244

File: 36e57187800020b⋯.jpg (68.91 KB, 683x495, 683:495, death.jpg)

I used to play FFIX and I was absolutely shit at it. I would have to take a few hours to grind at certain places to progress. Watching the speedruns of it blew me away, like how every enemy has some special way you can beat it without needing to be levelled.

So I think it's good to provide both options. Make sure you have powerups placed intelligently, so that a person who knows what they're doing can go straight through the game. And then the grinding functions as a backup for people who missed something or don't know the technique.

000000  No.32284


As >>32233 said, grinding can be a good idea if it's used as a difficulty adjustment.

Use incremental progress (kill 123 enemies) instead of random chance, and consider adding some form of feedback to inform the player so that they don't give up (not necessarily in UI, a statue for an hero that killed exactly 123 enemies could work too).


In general, more options = more power.

Options that raise difficulty are extremely hard to do well.

77b28e  No.32285

I think grinding 7x

39a551  No.32288

Grinding in single player boils down to providing more iterations of the game's core gameplay loop. So long as the gameplay remains compelling and novel (or the player obtains a process addiction) they will keep playing. This can be used not only to pace the release of new content to the player, but also to give them opportunities to experience their newfound content. There's little purpose to an item gained five minutes before the end of a game.

In multiplayer games there is a sharp segmentation between players that grind for 100+ hours and players that don't. A level 10 player fighting a level 50 player is not generally a contest, just a comparison of stats.

For the game to remain challenging and novel, I would introduce a couple design principles/features.

The first would be a cap for grinding. Whilst level 10 vs 20 is still a huge difference, 15 and 20 not guaranteed either way. This turns leveling up into a set of strategic decisions, meaning that two level 20 characters are comparing their strategy.

The second principle would be to use leveling up to differentiate characters, rather than to merely strengthen them. This would include adding abilities that are most useful in certain situations, or that offer synergy with other abilities. Additionally, passive bonuses that come with penalties also fit into this scheme. A level 20 character would consist of 20(initial build being one) opportunities to shape how a character becomes.

The third principle would be to introduce variability/entropy and prevent every player from immediately selecting the "flavor of the month". Some combinations of abilities will be more useful than others. Instead of giving the player five branches to invest in constantly (guaranteeing they will end up at a specific character), random elements (choose from these 3 abilities) would make approaching an exact set of abilities very, very difficult. This would allow a player with 300 hours to create multiple level 20 characters and then select their best to compete with. Such a character would have an advantage over first-time level 20 characters, but either could conceivably win in a fight together depending on how they were played.

The last (and probably most controversial) principle would be that of loss. Permadeath is the most extreme example (which would increase the stakes for PVP intensely), but reduction of experience, complete loss inventory, or even just a cooldown period for that specific character to respawn would do the job. This would further prevent characters from becoming "perfect" and staying that way indefinitely.

So yes, my answer to skill VS grind is imperfection and lack of magnitude/permanence in grinding.

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