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Tipp's Fringe Bunker

File: cfdf46d24012572⋯.jpg (803.9 KB, 1492x2000, 373:500, hm61.jpg)

 No.98992

I searched the catalogue and found no threads for Tantra. ITT we discuss tantric texts, rituals, deities, experiences, etc.

I recently picked up my first book on tantra, the Mahanirvana Tantra, translated by Sir John Woodroffe. Probablt the most sensational part is when it describes the vamacara (left hand path) panca-tattva (five elements) ritual in which five forbidden things; meat, fish, parched grains, alcohol and sex are used ritualistically. Each corresponds to an element and have symbolic meaning. The text does warn against the consumption of alcohol for non-ritual purposes, as well as over-consumption. The text also says it should be done between a man and his wife. This doesn't seem to stop some Aghori however. The rituals are still done by the Kaula sect. The goal of the panca-tattva is the attainment of Brahmajnan or gnosis. Thoughts?

You can read the Mahanirvana Tantra here:

http://www.aghori.it/mahanirvana_tantra.htm

 No.98993

OP here, also I was thinking of doing the panca-tattva ritual with a prostitute. Would it be in vain?


 No.98994

>>98993

If you had any prowess in any system of actual magic understanding how to manipulate people would come with ease. Why are you bothering trying to cultivate sexual energy with high level techniques when you're such a bullshit occultist you can't command with the will of god all women.


 No.98995

>>98994

Show us your magic then.


 No.99004

File: 9c5101443e21d5f⋯.jpg (25.8 KB, 480x360, 4:3, 1 (2).jpg)

>>98992

>>98993

I've been studying Tantra for several years. Dunno why you are so bent on sex. These are auxiliary practices that were done only by a special class of practitioners, in special conditions. Are you so sure that you are a vira?

If you are really interested in real """Tantric sex""" (at least in those rare cases in which it isn't disinfo bullshit) then read "Kiss of the Yogini" by David Gordon White.

Out of all great things in Tantra, out of chakras, Kundalini and oriental energywork, yantras, mantras, Devis, meditations, initiations, astrology, pranayamas, sorcery, yoginis, rituals, sadhana, puja etc. out of all great things you pick up sex and alcohol. Why?

And yes, ritual with a prostitute will be in vain.


 No.99010

>>99004

Thanks for a constructive post, I will check out that book.

Being in the West I am exposed to alcohol and sex all the time. But both are just seen as recreational activities and nothing more though. Sex is the ability to create life, it's a great power. Violence is another thing that saturates our media, that's the power to take life, and meat is consumed everywhere. These biological survival functions give mankind the power to create and destroy, in the case of eating meat both at the same time. As well the idea that God permeates everything, which as a monist I believe, drives me to the understanding that "clean" and "unclean" are mere inventions of humanity, and part of Maya. On top of that, sex, drugs, and violence are just exciting, maybe only because they are taboo. Reading about Kali becoming drunk on the blood of demons just makes me ecstatic. Further the Mahanirvana Tantra recommends these practices for men seeking liberation who live in the Kali Yuga and are ruled by Gunas. I am such a man.

As for doing the panca-tattva, I already do normal asana/pranayama/dharana. Admittedly, I also already drink and have sex. Why not combine them since I do both anyway? I'm not the type to put all my eggs in one basket as they say, and like I said, the lower Gunas have a lot of power over me. I can abstain but only for so long anyway.

The Mahanirvana Tantra which contains the panca-tattva ritual also contains many, more orthodox exercises which I am going to perform, but I don't feel I need any advice on those at this time, so I ask about the panca-tattva ritual.

So, for the panca-tattva I would have to get married for it to not be in vain, as the book says?


 No.99019

>>99010

>So, for the panca-tattva I would have to get married for it to not be in vain, as the book says?

No, you need to have a competent partner who is also well-versed in Tantra. Not to mention a competent Guru under whose tutelage the rite is performed (but I don't have a Guru myself so who am I to tell you that you need one?). Also, "tantric sex" is a myth. Real tantric sex is just a sexualized ritual and not ritualized sex.

>I also already drink and have sex. Why not combine them since I do both anyway?

I don't know any Tantrik lineage that wouldn't recommend preservation of energy and sexual abstinence, so I doubt that you can combine them.

>the lower Gunas have a lot of power over me.

>I can abstain but only for so long anyway.

If by lower gunas you mean tamas and rajas then many (perhaps all) tantras explicitly state that you are a pasu and that you are forbidden from performing these activities. Such rites as five Ms are for people who mastered their desires sufficiently, so that performing these activities in a ritual context won't bound you further to them. If you can't abstain from them, if they still have power over you then using them in Tantrik rite would only have adverse effects, as it is not you who is in control, but your tendencies towards indulging in sex and intoxicants.

In his Aghora trilogy Svoboda explains that his Guru was able to use intoxicants not because he needed them and wanted them, but because he didn't.

>Mahanirvana Tantra

Arthur Avalon is based af, but he was a pioneer. Is it the only tantra that you read? It's really short-sighted to base your knowledge about such a multifaceted tradition, composed of many currents, on just one text. Furthermore, his translations are known to be faulty in certain parts.

Why not read up more? Explore different traditions, try different things?

"Tantrik sex" constitutes a minuscule part of this system, why is it that it gets all the attention, with other, more prevalent parts of the system passing on unnoticed?


 No.99020


 No.99021

>>99010

Anyway, your attitude is incorrect IMHO

>ey mane, I like fucking so I will like tantra and shiet

These are not ordinary rites. Compare your motivations for learning """tantric sex""" to perhaps most famous example of Tantrik sex rite carried out by the parents of the most famous Tantrika to have ever lived - Abhinavagupta. They engaged in Tantrik sex to create a suitable vessel so that a godlike entity could descend to this world through them. That entity, being an incarnation of Bhairava, penned many works, created his own synthesis of various Tantrik currents and taught countless disciples before his ascension in the Bahirava cave.

They didn't engage in it because they liked it or that they wanted to gratify their animal urges, they did it for a higher purpose.

Anyway, I can write more about Tantra if you have any questions and I can recommend books and tantras if you want to learn more.


 No.99025

File: 082d2e9cd224c3a⋯.jpg (565.36 KB, 1783x2520, 1783:2520, kaali-maa.jpg)

>>99019

>Why not read up more? Explore different traditions, try different things?

I plan to, I just started at the Mahanirvana Tantra because I read about it in the Sword and the Flute by Kinsley. Got any other books to recommend? I already planned on reading Aghora.

>tantras explicitly state that you are a pasu and that you are forbidden from performing these activities

The Mahanirvana Tantra says there are no pashus in the Kali Yuga. Not sure what they meant by that though. This webpage I came across says there are various opinions about it. Another opinion is that there are no vira or divya bhava in this Yuga, only pashu. Perhaps one interpretation is that simply enduring life in the Kali Yuga is a heroic act, the other interpretation being that everyone is corrupted by the age and is prevented from being a vira or divya. But that's just me thinking of possible reasons for the discrepancies.

http://chestofbooks.com/new-age/spirituality/tantra/Mahanirvana-Tantra/The-Three-Temperaments.html

As for being forbidden, not having a guru, etc. I kind of thought doing forbidden things without fear is part of being a vira. In any case, it doesn't really discourage me because worst case scenario I drink some wine and have sex and nothing spiritual is achieved, but since it's nothing alien to me anyway the harm done by lust and liquor has already been there from the get-go. I started as a pashu and I end as a pashu. On that note, Kama and Artha are two of the pursuits of mankind, the others being Dharma and Moksha. I will not renounce Kama anytime soon. And though you're supposed to remove desire from the equation, the pleasure of sex remains in the ritual.

"Have there a young and beautiful girl, adorned with various jewels. After combing her hair, give her tambula and draw two Hrims on her breasts, Aim on or near her mouth, and draw two Klims on either side of her yoni. Drawing her towards you by her hair, caress her breasts and then place the linga into her yoni pot.

O pure smiling one. Recite the mantra 1,000 times, O sweet faced one. Dearest, one becomes accomplished by doing the rite for a week. Maheshani, recite the mantra not in the manner written of in books, but in her yoni. This brings mantra siddhi, there is no doubt of it. So, Devi, the secret thing giving all desires has been declared to you. One should not reveal it, one should never reveal it, Maheshani."

http://www.shivashakti.com/brihad.htm

And another thing about what is forbidden, the Mahanirvana Tantra states that reciting a certain mantra will make anything pure, even food that came out of a dog's mouth, and abolish all distinctions of caste, among many other things. It states that it is better to kill a Brahmana or commit a hundred sins than to despise food that has been consecrated by this mantra! (verse 92)

>"Tantrik sex" constitutes a minuscule part of this system, why is it that it gets all the attention, with other, more prevalent parts of the system passing on unnoticed?

Westerners have pretty much ignored actual Tantrism, you're right. Charismatic people can make money and bone hot chicks by selling Tantric sex "teachings". I think Westerners also cling on to the small sexual element because it seems like a breath of fresh air from the "thou shalt not" attitude of the Judeo-Christian tradition.

I think it's also time for me to say that while I do believe in God, I think religion and ritual are social and psychological. Some people say using Kali's mantras is dangerous, that she might bring bad luck. I think of Kali more as a symbol representing moral and metaphysical principals. There's an entire book on spiritual philosophy just contained within her depiction if you just read into the symbolism, which I am sure you have. I think everyone is connected to God, and no matter what ritual you use, be you Hindu or Muslim, anything; so long as you have good intent and sufficient devotion a ritual will yield positive results. So that's why I have no fear of Kali, I'm not superstitious. I think altered states like Brahmajnan might just be what would happen to anyone if they burned incense, chanted mantras, did asana and pranayama, gazed at a yantra, etc. culminating in sex which would exhaust them further. The actions and their symbolism would have a profound impact on the mind. Modern Western science has already documented that changes in the brain occur from ordinary meditation. So ultimately that's what I want to experience, to experiment with.

Here is Alan Watts on Kali, not sure if it would teach you anything you don't already know but I found it interesting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ftd5RBFYW0


 No.99036

File: 8ca5e981f6aac96⋯.jpg (336.34 KB, 1024x768, 4:3, 8ca5e981f6aac96dbbbf496da2….jpg)

I have studied anthropology for quite some time and I have never found a culture and spiritual beliefs as overwhelming and impenetable than Hinduism. It seems very hard to get proper context since there is so much to it and there metaphysics is incredibly deep. I only know very basic things like elementary symbolism of each god, enough to distinguish their art styles, various practices and rituals which stand out as unorthodox in comparison to the rest of the world. Does anyone have a good place to start or book which provides a good introduction to Hindu beliefs and philosophy? I have a copy of the Vedas but I would like something that could provide me with a bit of history and sources, not necessarily on rituals and occultism, perhaps something a little more academically inclined. It seems to be very deep so I have never made any conclusions on it though from what little I have read and the speculation of others I have found it to be quite an insightful and unique approach to viewing the ways of the world.


 No.99037

>>99019

Tantra and Yoga have been bastardized and commodified by the West. Yoga is just a series of stretches and positions, Tantra is just a a group of techniques for maximizing sexual pleasure. It's pretty disgusting.


 No.99044

File: 9458ae3e4bfa416⋯.jpg (130.92 KB, 600x865, 120:173, aghoricuteboy.jpg)

Sorry if I came of as an arrogant fuck before, it's just I'm so tired of dealing with the topic of tantric sex.

>>99037

this basically

>>99025

>Some people say using Kali's mantras is dangerous

Some people have no idea what they are talking about either. I'm wholeheartedly devoted to Kali. Actually the mantra of Daksinakalika is the only Tantrik mantra I know of that is said to not require initiation into by Guru.

>I think of Kali more as a symbol representing moral and metaphysical principals.

It depends what lineage you hail from, although, be it Shaktism or Shaivism, the role of Shiva and Shakti is almost the same - with them being metaphysical principles of formless and passive (this is disputable given the importance of Svatantrya of Shiva in Shaivism, perhaps it's better to say transcendent) consciousness (Shiva) and active consciousness in form (Shakti). Now, depending on the lineage, the chief Goddess varies (Lalita Tripurasundari, Kali, Tara among others), but the Tantrik Goddess is the same, just in different forms, assuming different aspects. Nevertheless, Kali has always had a prominent place in the Tantra at large (in Shaivism too, just see the wheel of 12 or 13 Kalis of the Krama system or Abhinavagupta's Trika, which represent various states of human awareness) and She is so much more than what can be deduced from Her iconography.

Moreover, She is the chief of Dasa Mahavidya.

>So that's why I have no fear of Kali

Depends on Her aspect tbqh fam. Some are gruesome (like Bhadrakali), some are more benevolent (in appearance and demeanour at least, the Goddess is always benevolent, as She is consciousness and knowledge, the only thing to fear is ignorance), but yeah, have no fear.

Anyway, Kali Kaula is a nice introduction to Kalikula and Shakta tantrism at large. A bit lacking in certain aspects but a nice entry-level book.

>The Mahanirvana Tantra says there are no pashus in the Kali Yuga.

Perhaps, I read it several years ago, nevertheless most tantras speak of passhus, viras and divyas. The problem with tantras is that they were never meant to be studied by a lone practitioner. No single tantra contains a whole set of instructions, which makes it so much more valuable to study lots of them, from different currents and forge your own understanding.

Anyway, I recommend to anyone the works of Abhinavagupta and his disciples. It's a much more organized lineage and Trika is in itself a synthesis of various Tantrik currents (Kaula, Krama, Pratyabhijna, Trika and Spanda amongst others). While the Natha traditions have a number of great texts, Shakta most certainly do too, but only in Kashmir Shaivism Tantra has finally reached it's full potential IMHO.

>I will not renounce Kama anytime soon

"A bhogin cannot be a yogin" as a number of influential tantras has stated. There is a difference between renouncing pleasure and being able to control your desires. Anyway, you do what you do, who am I to tell you otherwise? I just don't think it's the wisest idea.

>>99036

>a good introduction to Hindu beliefs and philosophy

There are no "Hindu beliefs" nor a "Hindu philosophy". There are countless sects, often being in disagreement with each other. It's true that all of Hindu sacred writings are "canon", and new writings were just interpreted as a new version of the old truth, but still… There are plenty of differences. If you want to start studying Tantra then I can be of help, just bear in mind that I haven't studied in depth all of Tantrik lineages and currents (not even those materials of which are available in English) as there are countless branches of Tantra.

Guys, are you interested in Tantra discord channel or something? Exchanging ideas, informations, experiences etc.?


 No.99045

>>99044

>Sorry if I came of as an arrogant fuck

No way man, you've been totally helpful and kind. I'm searching up and bookmarking all the books you've recommended so I can read them later.

>Actually the mantra of Daksinakalika is the only Tantrik mantra I know of that is said to not require initiation into by Guru.

Is this the Daksinekalika mantra?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6Kff_1_mu8

I've used Aum Krim Kalikaye Namah before, of course without initiation from a guru. Where one would find an authentic guru in a Western country I don't know. As stated before Westerners have horribly corrupted yoga and especially tantra.

An yeah, I guess I do want to try tantric sex because DUDE SEX LMAO, but who doesn't? I also want to live with desire without being controlled by it. Compared to the average guy on the street, I control my mind very well, though I guess that's not saying much. Better than average, but still lots of room for improvement.


 No.99047

File: afb77aa726519f3⋯.jpg (135.65 KB, 564x690, 94:115, 2291c1527029c397d77548ccf1….jpg)

Anyway, sorry if my responses are a bit chaotic and disorganized, I'd really like to write up something properly about Tantra, to which I've felt unexplainable pull ever since I first got into the occult, but I'm really busy with life stuff atm.

If there are people who are interested in Tantra then I'd be more than happy to exchange knowledge and maybe form a small community or something if there is enough of us, what do you guys think about that Discord channel idea?

There is a wealth of information, especially about Kashmir Shaivism which has received attention from a number of scholars and there is a lot of valuable texts. I aim to be a Shaivite Shakta, but I feel as my knowledge is really disorganized so I need to rectify that.

There is a number of projects that I started working on or plan to work on after I have more free time and having people to discuss the ideas with could be really helpful.

>>99045

Yes, this is the chief mantra of Kali, although Woodroffe suggested that Daksinakalika mantra is without Om in the beginning and that by adding it, it becomes Mahakali mantra, so according to him the mantra you linked is actually Mahakali mantra. There is a lot of cool things that you can do with that mantra too, like applying kavacha (mantric armour) for example.


 No.99061

>>99047

Maybe make a blog with a recommended reading list, book reviews, commentary and the like? I'd read it.

I will try that mantra 108 times. I actually wrote it down yesterday because I read about it on that shivashakti website in the link I posted about the Vira Sadhana. "It causes pashus to become viras" it says.


 No.99086

File: e3e22b0185411c3⋯.jpg (10.25 KB, 400x227, 400:227, 60159d3fbd145a653e21d42aa2….jpg)

>>99044

None of that honestly helps me in the slightest and just makes me more confused. Maybe you could tell me how you became well versed in Hinduistic mythology and practices? If that is even the right way to put it….

>>99061

I'd also read a blog like that, Discord channel I don't think I would have anything to provide other than questions.


 No.99128

File: 597b40512c23ea7⋯.jpg (182.23 KB, 497x813, 497:813, kubjika.jpg)

>>99061

>Maybe make a blog

Will think about it.

>I will try that mantra 108 times

First the mantra should be activated, there are various ritual procedures for that including, but not limited to, repeating it shitload of times, like 1000 or 10000 times. That takes serious dedication, on the other hand it's a great exercise of will.

Anyway, there are some unorthodox methods of awakening the mantra. I recommend first bringing your attention to the meditative image of Kali (check Shivashakti, there should be some nice description), then, or at the same time as you concentrate on the image, repeat mentally the mantra. Don't repeat it mindlessly! Pay full attention to the syllables.

Moreover, some texts say that any mantra must be synchronized with hamsa mantra (or so'ham) - which is your breath basically. Try and divide the mantra in two or four and then mentally repeat it while breathing slowly, for example: first part on the inhale, second on the exhale etc. get into the rhythm.

Additionally it is useful to know the metaphysics of mantra in order to get the most out of it. For now I will just say that in Tantra microcosm is an image of macrocosm (think of as above so below). Mantras aren't just meaningless words, even bija mantras have their (esoteric) meaning. Mantra is actually a deity, treat it as such. It's the very essence of deity (in this case at least) in the soundform, encoded in the form of vibrations. By repeating it, you bring it to your consciousness, eventually becoming the very deity that you worship! That is the secret, the essence of non-dual worship (the only worship that is employed in Tantra tbqh) - "to worship a deity one must become a deity".

Don't treat it as a spell, don't expect things happen to you, treat the mantra as a conscious entity, because it is. I strongly suggest that you treat it with an utmost respect.

There is a lot of things that I haven't said and mantra shastra is an enormous body of practices, what I wrote is just bare bones of this shastra. For example there is a great significance given to speech in Tantra (in much broader sense than we are used to when we consider the word speech), and there are many levels of it. Also, the significance given to Sanskrit rivals, if not surpasses, that of Hebrew in Kabbalah.


 No.99129

File: 36791ff75c345f0⋯.jpg (102.9 KB, 564x851, 564:851, Camunda.jpg)

>>99086

>Maybe you could tell me how you became well versed in Hinduistic mythology

I didn't.

There are various groups of writings in Hinduism. Anyway, let me digress for a second. Even the term "Hinduism" itself is incorrect. It has it's beginnings in the colonial times, as Europeans thought that the inhabitants of the subcontinent surely have their "one faith", much like they did, so they actually coined the term. In reality Hinduism is just an umbrella term for countless sects, with different modes of practice, slightly, or a lot, different deities, different codes and ethics etc. Nowadays it is much less pronounced, because the inhabitants of India were actually "indoctrinated" by Westerners. No, really, the education system is very much informed by Western ideas about India and not the actual roots of their religion.

There are various writings and the old writings were never replaced by new ones and deemed not canonical or whatever. You have vedas which are the oldest, and they are quite a mix of ritual procedures, myths, hymns, proto-yoga etc. Then you have upanishads, which are called Vedanta (the crown of vedas) as they take the ideas present in vedas and make them more subtle, take them to their next step. You also have puranas which are mythological tales about deities and their deeds. There is a lot of other subgroups of texts, but mostly they roughly fall into the time periods and styles of the above mentioned.

And then you have tantras, which are yet another class of texts. Tantras are the apex of this whole evolution, the most esoteric and the most powerful. They are the Shastra for this Yuga. In tantras you also have vedic and upanishadic ideas but from a wholly esoteric perspective.

Tantras (but not all of them mind you!) aren't concerned with mythology, but with magic and spirituality. They internalize things that were previously external. They aren't concerned with stories, but with mechanics of consciousness, of energy and how they can be utilized (well, amongst other things). For example in vedas you had Purusha, a sort of mythological cosmic man, in tantras Purusha became the metaphysical principle of individual consciousness.

Of course neither of those subclasses of texts are unified, but as I said in regards to Hinduism - there are countless sects, being sometimes in disagreement with each other. And so in tantras you have different Tantrik currents, which base their ideology on different texts. A very intuitive categorization can be based on whom these currents regarded as a chief deity (which in Tantra isn't regarded as a mythological figure, or at least not only, but as a metaphysical principle) so you have Shaivism, Shaktism, Vaishnavism, Smartism amongst others. Each of them has it's own subdivisions, either based on the further manifestation of the Divine they regard as a chief deity (for example Shaktism having it's further subdivisions into, amongst others, Kalikula, Śrikula, Tarakula) or on different modes of practice (for example Shaivism having many subcurrents such as Trika or Spanda). Sometimes they are in direct contradiction towards eachother for example dualistic Shiva Siddhanta and monistic Trika (such situation isn't encountered in Tantra only as you have both dualistic Vedanta - Dvaita Vedanta and monistic Vedanta - Advaita Vedanta). There are also currents that I omitted.

These aren't set in stone barriers between those currents. Lots of brahmins who were vedic purists were also (often in secrecy) accomplished tantrikas and different texts and traditions freely intermingled with each other. We also need to take into consideration geography and time periods, as Southern Tantrik currents were different from Northern ones.

1/2


 No.99130

File: b6a473eb69107b6⋯.jpg (654.01 KB, 1772x1772, 1:1, 4.jpg)

>>99086

>>99129

What is perhaps most interesting about all of this is the progressive evolution from vedas to tantras, from external to internal, from exoteric to esoteric. The later traditions didn't just scrape the older teachings, they interpreted them in a more esoteric way, according to their capabilities and spiritual progress and so you have Abhinavagupta's Paramarthasara which is an expanded edition of an older Paramarthasara of Adiesa which presents teachings from Trika's esoteric point of view or Abhinavagupta's commentary on Bhagavad Gita.

There were also folk traditions which weren't written in any text. Anyway, most tantrik texts remain untranslated, in manuscript form or lost.

There are other shastras which are also a part of "Hinduism", such as yoga for example with it's own subcategories, astrology, alchemy (both vedic and tantrik) etc. Most of the ideas and currents were intermingled with each other. You also have Jainism and Jain tantras, Buddhist tantras too, also there was a transmission of teachings between them, not to mention transmissions between different sects of Hindu Tantra.

I don't have much knowledge about vedas, puranas and upanishads, I don't really like mythology and am solely interested in the most esoteric and practical teachings. Anyway, this is just the tip of an iceberg, but that should give you a taste what are you dealing with. If you want to learn this stuff then just pick some current and start studying. If your interest is solely academic then I recommend starting with Kashmir Shaivism as it gets a lot of attention from scholars and there is a lot of academic publications. Not to mention that Shaivism is actually quite ordered, especially Abhinavagupta's synthesis of various Tantrik schools.


 No.99141

honesty don't see a point on even trying to study this stuff anymore. as pointed out most texts are either not translate or missing even then the translations aren't gonna be ideal cause we wont truly understand the meanings or lack the vocabulary to explain it. We'll have an idea but that's not the same thing as knowing.

>>99130

>I don't really like mythology and am solely interested in the most esoteric

seems like TO ME that people would have a better understanding of deities and their roles if they studied the mythology. Like you pointed out Hinduism and tantra are a cluster fuck and even then there doesn't seem to be a unified definition of what is tantra. For every current of tantra there was probably their own story to explain the deities role. They seem to adapt to whatever culture and try to stay low key.

>practical teachings

Sit there and repeat mantra until placebo kicks in

Fun thing are fun and have a purpose.


 No.99142

>>99141

>even then the translations aren't gonna be ideal cause we wont truly understand the meanings or lack the vocabulary to explain it

That's why you practice things yourself, to get direct understanding.

>people would have a better understanding of deities and their roles if they studied the mythology

people would have a better understanding of deities and their roles if they actually practised the system and got in contact with them

>Hinduism and tantra are a cluster fuck

You don't need to study all of it. I tried to get as broad knowledge as possible regarding the system simply because I resonate with it pretty well and this stuff is actually very interesting to me. Even reading one tantra and practising meditations and energy work contained therein has benefits, even without a broader picture. Nevertheless it certainly helps if you have it.

>there doesn't seem to be a unified definition of what is tantra

https://tantrikstudies.squarespace.com/blog/2015/6/10/definition-of-the-word-tantra

>For every current of tantra there was probably their own story to explain the deities role.

Not necessarily, they all based their definitions on older sources and they all come from the same source, despite the differences. The fact that there is so much diversity doesn't mean that there aren't common denominators nor that the teachings do not converge at some point. Don't cling so hard onto forms, they are just tools and means to an end. Some people prefer one path, some other. I think it's good that this system provides an ability to choose.

>Sit there and repeat mantra until placebo kicks in

*tips fedora*

Also, it's heavy reductionism to assume that Tantra = mantra. Mantras have a very prominent role, but Tantra is a complex system in itself. For every thing in Western occultism you could find a Tantrik counterpart of it (nevermind the fact that so much of the teachings of contemporary Western occultism come directly from Eastern texts, just in a heavily degenerated form).

>Fun thing are fun and have a purpose.

What tantras have you read?


 No.99144

>>99141

>>99142

"Second-hand knowledge of the self gathered from books or gurus can never emancipate a man until its truth is rightly investigated and applied; only direct realisation will do that. Realise yourself, turning the mind inward."

~Tripura Rahasya


 No.99168

>>99142

*tips fedora*

sorry lad until I experience something besides a dream I'm not gonna have a better idea of what it is.

>For every thing in Western occultism you could find a Tantrik counterpart of it

and the counter part of hermeticism?

>just in a heavily degenerated form

what makes tantra much better?

>What tantras have you read?

cant remember, part of kiss of the yogni I use to be like you wanted to find the similarities in all different tantras but I'm not really into it anymore. The more I read the more I realize people get into magic for the wrong reasons and if you want it ti work your basically doing magic for the sake of doing magic.

I guess I'll do the kali mantra since you don't need a guru


 No.99194

File: d258565f6054451⋯.jpg (52.34 KB, 640x640, 1:1, kali.jpg)

File: 994d26e39bf4d0d⋯.png (967.63 KB, 1310x873, 1310:873, x 23.png)

>>99025

>Some people say using Kali's mantras is dangerous, that she might bring bad luck.

They tend to produce rapid change. Shortest route to the outcome kind of stuff. Also tends to cut through the ego and falsehoods.

Based on personal experience.

Your dealing with an aspect of divinity that solved an unsolvable problem.

Skin black with rage.

Made a skirt from the forearms of her dead enemies.

Made a necklace with their heads.

Then danced.

Who can't relate to that?

I like listening to the mantras, especially when feeling under duress.

Beyond that the scope of this thread is far too intellectual for my instinctual kind of magic.

Good luck with whatever you do.


 No.99201

>>99168

>sorry lad until I experience something besides a dream

""""magix not real, I have tried it and it doesn't work, pack it up bois""""

>and the counter part of hermeticism?

Tantra? At least according to Bardon.

Bardon wrote that what Tantra is for the East, Hermeticism is for the West. Tantra just contains much more diverse practices and in my opinion contains generally much more than Hermeticism. I always thought that the theory section of IIH is heavily inspired by Tantra anyway, but maybe Bardon came up with it on his own.

>part of kiss of the yogni

Kiss of the Yogini is not a tantra but an academic publication by an author who confessed he has no practical knowledge in this stuff and is just a scholar. Wealth of information for sure, but not a tantra.

>The more I read the more I realize people get into magic for the wrong reasons and if you want it ti work your basically doing magic for the sake of doing magic.

What kind of half-assed strawman is this? What are you even trying to convey?


 No.99210

>>99201

>pack it up bois

Where exactly did I tell you to give up?

>What kind of half-assed strawman is this? What are you even trying to convey?

why dont you tell me?


 No.99212

>>98993

>with a whore

cheap.

cultivate more attraction, get a gf that still looks at you with love in her eyes as youre balls deep down her throat.

alchemy is awesome.


 No.99903

>>98992

Do mudras belong here too?


 No.99916

so is this thread like hinduism general?

from what I could tell hinduism is just three smaller religions squished into one. Like the gita comes from one, and another is some vedic stuff.

Anyone actually understand this?

I have to say though, I've had a gander at the Gita and it is very enlightening. want to learn sanskrit one day

>>99903

yea although you should at least read the entire wiki article on mudras, you should know what to research from there really


 No.99958

>>99903

Of course.

>>99916

>from what I could tell hinduism is just three smaller religions squished into one

>>99129

>>99130

I beg to differ.

>Like the gita comes from one, and another is some vedic stuff

Gita is (a part of) the "vedic stuff".

>I've had a gander at the Gita and it is very enlightening

Abhinavagupta's commentary on it - Gitartha Sangraha is even more so.


 No.99966

What do you think of urine drinking, tantrabro?

Seriously; its an stablished hindu/tantra practica and easy to do, but of course I hesitate because of cultural upbringing.


 No.100024

>>99966

>its an stablished hindu/tantra practica

That's the first time I hear about it in the context of Tantra tbh. The only source (well, as much as it can be called a source) on this that I could find is Shivambu Kalpa, which is said to be a section of a larger work - Damara Tantra. Which doesn't make a lot of sense, as I studied Damara Tantra and it haven't mentioned urine-drinking anywhere as far as I remember. I also quickly went through this tantra just now to refresh my memory and found nothing. On the other hand, these may be different works, especially seeing how this "Shivambu Kalpa" is supposedly a dialogue between Parvati and her consort, while in Damara Tantra it's Bhairavi.

Anyway, never encountered mentions of this practice in any tantra and I never drank my urine either. I don't know anything about it in the broader context of Hindusim, I think in most ajurvedic texts it's cow urine anyway.

also

>Its "method of drinking urine for rejuvenation" is outlined in the Shivambu Kalpa Vidhi, part of a 5000-year-old document called the Damar Tantra

Even Rgveda is 4000 years old tops, so I really doubt the authenticity of these claims. Nevertheless, I haven't given it much research, so if you learn anything about it I'd gladly hear it.

But yeah, urine-therapy was never my cup of… tea?


 No.100050

Just for the purpose of having sex

+ Which I don't see would harm you in any way

The Highest light in the Land

The Jewel in the Lotus

is the best book.

Its crude sketches make it seem animate


 No.100135

File: ec218daa1368590⋯.jpg (41.97 KB, 456x457, 456:457, rishi.jpg)

File: 8576ef98cbf68cb⋯.jpg (3.67 KB, 224x224, 1:1, minm room.jpg)

is it possible to meditate deeply in your apartment?

All the texts say great sages went deep into the forest but if all the forests in your country are private property or the like; is it the same?

Maybe I should stop being a hippie tree-hugger and meditate in the city.


 No.100139

>>100135

Trees aren't implicitly required for meditation, it's the Forest.

You have to go far away from others, and be undisturbed by man for a long time if you wish the same experience, and shitty city air doesn't tend to help. Anywhere can work, if you can be alone and undisturbed, and far away from distraction.


 No.100157

>>100135

>is it possible to meditate deeply in your apartment?

Sure it is, meditation is about turning within. It doesn't matter where you are, you are turning within anyway, and your within is the same, be it in the city or in secluded mountain forests.

>All the texts say great sages went deep into the forest

All the texts were written before industrialization. We must make our own paths now and not try the hardest to emulate the old ways. Of course, if you can get in touch with nature then do it. If you can mediate in a secluded location undisturbed then it can be helpful, if you don't then you just have to make do with what you have. Don't use not having perfect conditions as an excuse, because they will never be perfect. It's not about your external conditions, but your internal processes.

"Bad smells and perfumes one should sense as equal.

Just as a lotus petal in water is without stain, so a Yogi is

unmarred by merit or sin. In one in whom this mental

disposition has blossomed there is no difference between

killing a Brahmin or the Ashvamedha sacrifice, nor is there

any difference between bathing in all the sacred waters or

contact with barbarians.’’

~Kaulajnananirnaya tantra


 No.100228

I'm so in the tao right now that I need a young boy to tongue my anus but before I would be sure to bath us in lots of urine (his)

Wait.. this IS a tantra thread, right?

>>100135

1. you are in a box

2. you are surrounded by an electric field detrimental to the aura and body consciousness

3. nature is made up of recurring fractals and if you don't know what that means then just lol

stupid larpers


 No.100229

I just activated my kundalini listening to this, wut do?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeGrLVg0YjM#t=33m37s


 No.100250

>>100228

Tao is not degenerate


 No.100262

>>100229

📉🌴🌴🌴 meditate


 No.100271

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

>>100229

This one really activates my almonds

actually zeds dead has much better mixes that are not on jewtube


 No.100292

>>100250

For you

>>100262

No

>>100271

Not going to listen to your jew music


 No.100294

>>100292

No one will ever give a fuck about you. Enjoy pathetically dying alone


 No.111157

>>97548

Haha yeah! Atkinson amirite?


 No.111158

>>98994

Iknowrite? I yoose the law of atrakchun and it works cuz I'm a Pisces lol XDDD


 No.111159

>>98995

😉👌

Say that to me in the Astral not online faggot


 No.111160

>>100135

Ya as long as u got all ur 50$ chakra stones xDDDDD


 No.111161

>>99129

Nope ur wrong, I'm a magus 😂😂😂


 No.111162

😂


 No.111163

Hey how do I same?


 No.111164


 No.111449

Damn good discussion in this thread. Have lots of research and reading to do now.


 No.111463

>>100250

The Tao encompasses all things. To classify it as either degenerate or not degenerate is to lose its essence.


 No.111464

>>111463

kike

the tao doesn't encompass jews and degens their part of the demiurge and must rope


 No.112578

>>99966

I'm not the tantrabro but urine drinking is great if you want to raise your vibes/expand your aura fast.

It will leave you spacey and unstable and a little weak from the growth but you'll be buzzing with energy.

If I were to do it safely, first I'd be well-grounded for a good month, then I'd go for 3-6 days, observing when I get ungrounded, stopping when I do to integrate the expansion.

or just do whatever and experiment. I did it for 3-10 days straight when I was already ungrounded kinda, because it was fun/a way to escape from being sad.

Khan said it raises vibes faster than even dry fasting

>>111464


 No.112579

>>111464

didn't mean to reply but

>making any assumptions about the tao


 No.112596

>>100229

gone :(

>>100262

yes

>>100292

off with ye, heathen

>>100050

>The Jewel in the Lotus

interesting.


 No.112606

File: ec193cb9deb37c1⋯.jpg (724.51 KB, 700x996, 175:249, kali s low.JPG)

>>99044

>>99047

>Actually the mantra of Daksinakalika is the only Tantrik mantra I know of that is said to not require initiation into by Guru

>Woodroffe suggested that Daksinakalika mantra is without Om in the beginning and that by adding it, it becomes Mahakali mantra

So basically if I want to activate this particular mantra I'll have to use the form without Om? It feels like this may just be a petty semantic issue, however with mantras it might be important to be picky about what exactly I'm chanting. After activating the Daksinakalika mantra will it be cool to upgrade to the Mahakali version, by say chanting it 10,000 times?

I'm not quite ready to commit myself to the goddess Kali in the first place, and have quite a lot of study ahead before making such a decision, however if and when that occurs I'd just hate to be wasting all this mantra mojo chanting some incorrect bullshit that requires guru initiation.

Thanks for all of your info in this thread too, hope you're still browsing tantrabro.


 No.112663

File: 15183c0b0900fec⋯.jpg (134.66 KB, 800x1132, 200:283, kali_by_bloodcult-d3d2a3o.jpg)

>>112606

I'm not browsing anymore, but it seems Divine Providence led me here to answer this question on this very day :^)

Well, I only wrote what Woodroffe 'suggested', and he is known to be wrong here and there. Make out of it what you will. I'm posting a pdf by Mike Magee, it should be of interested to you.

>After activating the Daksinakalika mantra will it be cool to upgrade to the Mahakali version

When you activate it, I'm sure Kali will guide you the rest of the way.

>chanting it 10,000 times

Yes, but I've always thought it to be a figure of speech. I mean - I don't think it's the exact number of repetitions that matters. You could repeat it mindlessly for an eternity, but if you don't bring your full consciousness into it - the mantra stays dead, just a lump of vowels. Make a meditation out of it, focus on nothing else than the mantra, give it your full awareness. If you are able to do that then you will surely achieve success. You don't have to chant it, it's even preferable that you don't, that you only repeat it in your mind.

'The Vaikhari Japa (loud mantra recitation) gives the reward as stated in the Vedas, while the Upamsu Japa (whispering or humming recitation) which cannot be heard by anyone, gives a reward a thousand times more than the Vaikhari, but the Manasika Japa (mental chanting) gives a reward a multi-myriad times more than the Vaikhari.'

~ Sandilya Upanishad

>chanting some incorrect bullshit that requires guru initiation

There are different kinds of initiation. There are no rules set in stone just because a number of texts say there are. Abhinava talked about an initiation by a "trial of consciousness" or something like that. Which is basically self-initiation because of virtue of your cultivation. Mantra repetition is a meditation technique. Whatever ability or achievement you get by meditation is yours, no one can take it away from you by saying that you are not qualified for this or that. Sure - some practices seem impossible to master for a beginner because the Guru initiation shows you a glimpse of the power needed to achieve success in the technique you work on (that's why you can't practice Dzogchen for example without a Direct Introduction). Without it you are in the dark. Nevertheless there are exceptions, as the tantras have stated that practitioners of a high level of grace do not need outer initiation into anything. Nevertheless - I pointed out how Daksinakalika mantra is one of a kind - not requiring formal initiation in a tradition where such a thing is a given for basically any practice. Also, I exchanged some emails with Magee and he doesn't think that you need a formal initiation to get benefit from stuff in tantras either.


 No.112664

File: 73b73b9e49c9610⋯.pdf (367.58 KB, Revised_Magic_of_Kali_2007.pdf)

>>112663

>>112606

So yeah - if you chant it 10000 times with devotion to Kali - you will get some benefit, no doubt about it. If you meditate on it one-pointedly - you will progress as a result, your focus will become one-pointed and the mantra will be yours, along with a host of benefits that come with meditation generally and aren't particular to the kind of meditation object you focus on.

Stuff may happen even after a few repetitions. There was a story I recall (probably read it in Aghora by Svoboda) about some guy that was out in the woods and witnessed an Aghori ritual, in which an ascetic used a corpse as a seat for his mantra japa (that thing is particular to Vamachara and particularly Aghora, which uses taboo-breaking and highly controversial practices in order to force a quicker progress on spiritual path, as for an accomplished yogi everything is pure), the guy overheard the mantra and when the Aghori was unsuccessful in his practice, he took his place, did a few repetitions and Smashana Kalika appeared before him, because as it turned out he was a Tantrika in his previous life, initiated into this mantra, and he was very close to accomplishment in this practice when he died, so in this life he had a chance to finish what he started. The story is probably bullshit anyway, but the moral is important - shit may go down even if you don't repeat it thousands of times. Anyway, if a Devi ever appears before you then don't ask for something silly. I watched this great movie which was based on the Abramelin ritual, it was awesome, go give it a try, it's called A Dark Song. I mean, some portrayals of the occult were far off and they went for the 'it looks cool' approach at times but still, a great movie. The ending was really… out of this world.

Yeah, anyway

>I'm not quite ready to commit myself to the goddess Kali in the first place

In the most esoteric facets of Tantra Kali is viewed as the power of your expanded awareness. How can you truly commit yourself to yourself? Of course, that is the highest of realizations, one that I haven't achieved, I admit. I'm not a Guru, don't listen to me. Also commit is such a strong word. Try it out, play with it, no one asks you to make any commitments if you don't want to. It's your path, your cultivation, your meditation, no need to unnecessarily limit yourself.

Also if you are interested in Tantra generally then check out:

>>108224

>>108222

>>108225


 No.112670

File: 83379444311463d⋯.jpg (21.04 KB, 350x350, 1:1, 83379444311463d4a2c6776b23….jpg)

>>112663

>>112664

Thank you very much for your quality response there, and for the PDF. I've been probing this thread for a while now, and have a sizable reading list from all the texts that were mentioned in here. Currently reading the Kali Kaula that you've recommended in multiple places, and I'm enjoying it, though at this time it hasn't influenced my practice just yet. Probably still too early in the thing.

>'The Vaikhari Japa (loud mantra recitation) gives the reward as stated in the Vedas, while the Upamsu Japa (whispering or humming recitation) which cannot be heard by anyone, gives a reward a thousand times more than the Vaikhari, but the Manasika Japa (mental chanting) gives a reward a multi-myriad times more than the Vaikhari.'

I've heard this exact same sentiment expressed before. What I'll probably do is get some prayer beads with the usual 108, then first do it out loud for a round, and then internalize it. In my experience doing a mantra out loud can help cement the thing in my head before I simply repeat it mentally.

Also, given that you're "not browsing anymore" is there any other means the anons here have of maintaining contact? You've clearly got a great sadhana going on, and quite frankly your posts are the best thing on /fringe/ right now not trying to flatter, just being honest It would be a huge damn shame if you vanished completely on us. A discord, blog, or something of the sort would be great.

Gonna go check out those other posts now bro Thanks again.


 No.112952

>>112670

>A discord, blog, or something of the sort would be great.

amethystdeceiver#9348

I don't really think I've got much to share and nowadays I much more prefer to quietly focus on the stuff I do rather than talk about it, but more occult friends is always nice.


 No.114166

File: 04c94cc86bbd016⋯.jpg (47.5 KB, 768x960, 4:5, 21768382_10155490288692626….jpg)

Without a root Guru (root because he awakens your Kanda nadi in the root chakra) you can do whatever you want for lifetimes, it's going to be very very difficult, even if you make progress you could be lost for kalpas in the samadhi realms.

I've come here to rescue the chosen one. (I'm not a Guru but I found mine.)


 No.114167

>>114166

If I look back I turn to salt. If I look forward I become nothing. If I look up I see God. If I look down I see Satan. What are the chances of me looking up?


 No.114258

>>114166

>>114167

Where does one find a guru?


 No.114259

>>114166

Also, what's a kalpa?


 No.114353

>>114259

It's an absurdly long period of time in Hinduism.


 No.114725

File: f417f66676a36d6⋯.png (551.81 KB, 2892x1185, 964:395, 5hv033rqlvhz.png)


 No.114736

>>114725

Thank you.


 No.114749

>>114725

This is why I'm so skeptical of the "mystics are just powerless magicians" narrative, because we've all known that guy who is 100% a virgin occultist, and as exaggerated as the Chad yogi is supposed to be, no smoke without a fire.


 No.114794

>>114725

fukken sav'd


 No.114795

>>114259

Countless kalpas, is the time that you guys will be reborn in the 6 realms of existence if you guys don't find a real root Guru or at least cultivate merit from NOW. And believe me the lower realms are way worst than this world.

How to know that he's a Mahasiddha? You need to meet him in person, then you'll know, because you are going to see miracles. How to find it anyway? Idk lol, you need to be extremely lucky to find someone who has achieved Mahamudra. I've found mine but obviously I'm not going to post his contact info on a public forum.

You need a hilarious amount of merit to really find Him. And you need a real aspiration to get out of this structure of Creation and give up every single thing to achieve this, real Hotsu Bodaishin.

Without Shakti, transmitted by the Guru (Shaktipat), or by grace from Mother it's not possible.

Don't search in big groups, like Sadhguru for example who has achieved it but only gives Shakti to a very small close group that I guess it's pretty hard to get in.




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