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Tipp's Fringe Bunker

File: cfdf46d24012572⋯.jpg (803.9 KB, 1492x2000, 373:500, hm61.jpg)


I searched the catalogue and found no threads for Tantra. ITT we discuss tantric texts, rituals, deities, experiences, etc.

I recently picked up my first book on tantra, the Mahanirvana Tantra, translated by Sir John Woodroffe. Probablt the most sensational part is when it describes the vamacara (left hand path) panca-tattva (five elements) ritual in which five forbidden things; meat, fish, parched grains, alcohol and sex are used ritualistically. Each corresponds to an element and have symbolic meaning. The text does warn against the consumption of alcohol for non-ritual purposes, as well as over-consumption. The text also says it should be done between a man and his wife. This doesn't seem to stop some Aghori however. The rituals are still done by the Kaula sect. The goal of the panca-tattva is the attainment of Brahmajnan or gnosis. Thoughts?

You can read the Mahanirvana Tantra here:



OP here, also I was thinking of doing the panca-tattva ritual with a prostitute. Would it be in vain?



If you had any prowess in any system of actual magic understanding how to manipulate people would come with ease. Why are you bothering trying to cultivate sexual energy with high level techniques when you're such a bullshit occultist you can't command with the will of god all women.



Show us your magic then.


File: 9c5101443e21d5f⋯.jpg (25.8 KB, 480x360, 4:3, 1 (2).jpg)



I've been studying Tantra for several years. Dunno why you are so bent on sex. These are auxiliary practices that were done only by a special class of practitioners, in special conditions. Are you so sure that you are a vira?

If you are really interested in real """Tantric sex""" (at least in those rare cases in which it isn't disinfo bullshit) then read "Kiss of the Yogini" by David Gordon White.

Out of all great things in Tantra, out of chakras, Kundalini and oriental energywork, yantras, mantras, Devis, meditations, initiations, astrology, pranayamas, sorcery, yoginis, rituals, sadhana, puja etc. out of all great things you pick up sex and alcohol. Why?

And yes, ritual with a prostitute will be in vain.



Thanks for a constructive post, I will check out that book.

Being in the West I am exposed to alcohol and sex all the time. But both are just seen as recreational activities and nothing more though. Sex is the ability to create life, it's a great power. Violence is another thing that saturates our media, that's the power to take life, and meat is consumed everywhere. These biological survival functions give mankind the power to create and destroy, in the case of eating meat both at the same time. As well the idea that God permeates everything, which as a monist I believe, drives me to the understanding that "clean" and "unclean" are mere inventions of humanity, and part of Maya. On top of that, sex, drugs, and violence are just exciting, maybe only because they are taboo. Reading about Kali becoming drunk on the blood of demons just makes me ecstatic. Further the Mahanirvana Tantra recommends these practices for men seeking liberation who live in the Kali Yuga and are ruled by Gunas. I am such a man.

As for doing the panca-tattva, I already do normal asana/pranayama/dharana. Admittedly, I also already drink and have sex. Why not combine them since I do both anyway? I'm not the type to put all my eggs in one basket as they say, and like I said, the lower Gunas have a lot of power over me. I can abstain but only for so long anyway.

The Mahanirvana Tantra which contains the panca-tattva ritual also contains many, more orthodox exercises which I am going to perform, but I don't feel I need any advice on those at this time, so I ask about the panca-tattva ritual.

So, for the panca-tattva I would have to get married for it to not be in vain, as the book says?



>So, for the panca-tattva I would have to get married for it to not be in vain, as the book says?

No, you need to have a competent partner who is also well-versed in Tantra. Not to mention a competent Guru under whose tutelage the rite is performed (but I don't have a Guru myself so who am I to tell you that you need one?). Also, "tantric sex" is a myth. Real tantric sex is just a sexualized ritual and not ritualized sex.

>I also already drink and have sex. Why not combine them since I do both anyway?

I don't know any Tantrik lineage that wouldn't recommend preservation of energy and sexual abstinence, so I doubt that you can combine them.

>the lower Gunas have a lot of power over me.

>I can abstain but only for so long anyway.

If by lower gunas you mean tamas and rajas then many (perhaps all) tantras explicitly state that you are a pasu and that you are forbidden from performing these activities. Such rites as five Ms are for people who mastered their desires sufficiently, so that performing these activities in a ritual context won't bound you further to them. If you can't abstain from them, if they still have power over you then using them in Tantrik rite would only have adverse effects, as it is not you who is in control, but your tendencies towards indulging in sex and intoxicants.

In his Aghora trilogy Svoboda explains that his Guru was able to use intoxicants not because he needed them and wanted them, but because he didn't.

>Mahanirvana Tantra

Arthur Avalon is based af, but he was a pioneer. Is it the only tantra that you read? It's really short-sighted to base your knowledge about such a multifaceted tradition, composed of many currents, on just one text. Furthermore, his translations are known to be faulty in certain parts.

Why not read up more? Explore different traditions, try different things?

"Tantrik sex" constitutes a minuscule part of this system, why is it that it gets all the attention, with other, more prevalent parts of the system passing on unnoticed?




Anyway, your attitude is incorrect IMHO

>ey mane, I like fucking so I will like tantra and shiet

These are not ordinary rites. Compare your motivations for learning """tantric sex""" to perhaps most famous example of Tantrik sex rite carried out by the parents of the most famous Tantrika to have ever lived - Abhinavagupta. They engaged in Tantrik sex to create a suitable vessel so that a godlike entity could descend to this world through them. That entity, being an incarnation of Bhairava, penned many works, created his own synthesis of various Tantrik currents and taught countless disciples before his ascension in the Bahirava cave.

They didn't engage in it because they liked it or that they wanted to gratify their animal urges, they did it for a higher purpose.

Anyway, I can write more about Tantra if you have any questions and I can recommend books and tantras if you want to learn more.


File: 082d2e9cd224c3a⋯.jpg (565.36 KB, 1783x2520, 1783:2520, kaali-maa.jpg)


>Why not read up more? Explore different traditions, try different things?

I plan to, I just started at the Mahanirvana Tantra because I read about it in the Sword and the Flute by Kinsley. Got any other books to recommend? I already planned on reading Aghora.

>tantras explicitly state that you are a pasu and that you are forbidden from performing these activities

The Mahanirvana Tantra says there are no pashus in the Kali Yuga. Not sure what they meant by that though. This webpage I came across says there are various opinions about it. Another opinion is that there are no vira or divya bhava in this Yuga, only pashu. Perhaps one interpretation is that simply enduring life in the Kali Yuga is a heroic act, the other interpretation being that everyone is corrupted by the age and is prevented from being a vira or divya. But that's just me thinking of possible reasons for the discrepancies.


As for being forbidden, not having a guru, etc. I kind of thought doing forbidden things without fear is part of being a vira. In any case, it doesn't really discourage me because worst case scenario I drink some wine and have sex and nothing spiritual is achieved, but since it's nothing alien to me anyway the harm done by lust and liquor has already been there from the get-go. I started as a pashu and I end as a pashu. On that note, Kama and Artha are two of the pursuits of mankind, the others being Dharma and Moksha. I will not renounce Kama anytime soon. And though you're supposed to remove desire from the equation, the pleasure of sex remains in the ritual.

"Have there a young and beautiful girl, adorned with various jewels. After combing her hair, give her tambula and draw two Hrims on her breasts, Aim on or near her mouth, and draw two Klims on either side of her yoni. Drawing her towards you by her hair, caress her breasts and then place the linga into her yoni pot.

O pure smiling one. Recite the mantra 1,000 times, O sweet faced one. Dearest, one becomes accomplished by doing the rite for a week. Maheshani, recite the mantra not in the manner written of in books, but in her yoni. This brings mantra siddhi, there is no doubt of it. So, Devi, the secret thing giving all desires has been declared to you. One should not reveal it, one should never reveal it, Maheshani."


And another thing about what is forbidden, the Mahanirvana Tantra states that reciting a certain mantra will make anything pure, even food that came out of a dog's mouth, and abolish all distinctions of caste, among many other things. It states that it is better to kill a Brahmana or commit a hundred sins than to despise food that has been consecrated by this mantra! (verse 92)

>"Tantrik sex" constitutes a minuscule part of this system, why is it that it gets all the attention, with other, more prevalent parts of the system passing on unnoticed?

Westerners have pretty much ignored actual Tantrism, you're right. Charismatic people can make money and bone hot chicks by selling Tantric sex "teachings". I think Westerners also cling on to the small sexual element because it seems like a breath of fresh air from the "thou shalt not" attitude of the Judeo-Christian tradition.

I think it's also time for me to say that while I do believe in God, I think religion and ritual are social and psychological. Some people say using Kali's mantras is dangerous, that she might bring bad luck. I think of Kali more as a symbol representing moral and metaphysical principals. There's an entire book on spiritual philosophy just contained within her depiction if you just read into the symbolism, which I am sure you have. I think everyone is connected to God, and no matter what ritual you use, be you Hindu or Muslim, anything; so long as you have good intent and sufficient devotion a ritual will yield positive results. So that's why I have no fear of Kali, I'm not superstitious. I think altered states like Brahmajnan might just be what would happen to anyone if they burned incense, chanted mantras, did asana and pranayama, gazed at a yantra, etc. culminating in sex which would exhaust them further. The actions and their symbolism would have a profound impact on the mind. Modern Western science has already documented that changes in the brain occur from ordinary meditation. So ultimately that's what I want to experience, to experiment with.

Here is Alan Watts on Kali, not sure if it would teach you anything you don't already know but I found it interesting:



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I have studied anthropology for quite some time and I have never found a culture and spiritual beliefs as overwhelming and impenetable than Hinduism. It seems very hard to get proper context since there is so much to it and there metaphysics is incredibly deep. I only know very basic things like elementary symbolism of each god, enough to distinguish their art styles, various practices and rituals which stand out as unorthodox in comparison to the rest of the world. Does anyone have a good place to start or book which provides a good introduction to Hindu beliefs and philosophy? I have a copy of the Vedas but I would like something that could provide me with a bit of history and sources, not necessarily on rituals and occultism, perhaps something a little more academically inclined. It seems to be very deep so I have never made any conclusions on it though from what little I have read and the speculation of others I have found it to be quite an insightful and unique approach to viewing the ways of the world.



Tantra and Yoga have been bastardized and commodified by the West. Yoga is just a series of stretches and positions, Tantra is just a a group of techniques for maximizing sexual pleasure. It's pretty disgusting.


File: 9458ae3e4bfa416⋯.jpg (130.92 KB, 600x865, 120:173, aghoricuteboy.jpg)

Sorry if I came of as an arrogant fuck before, it's just I'm so tired of dealing with the topic of tantric sex.


this basically


>Some people say using Kali's mantras is dangerous

Some people have no idea what they are talking about either. I'm wholeheartedly devoted to Kali. Actually the mantra of Daksinakalika is the only Tantrik mantra I know of that is said to not require initiation into by Guru.

>I think of Kali more as a symbol representing moral and metaphysical principals.

It depends what lineage you hail from, although, be it Shaktism or Shaivism, the role of Shiva and Shakti is almost the same - with them being metaphysical principles of formless and passive (this is disputable given the importance of Svatantrya of Shiva in Shaivism, perhaps it's better to say transcendent) consciousness (Shiva) and active consciousness in form (Shakti). Now, depending on the lineage, the chief Goddess varies (Lalita Tripurasundari, Kali, Tara among others), but the Tantrik Goddess is the same, just in different forms, assuming different aspects. Nevertheless, Kali has always had a prominent place in the Tantra at large (in Shaivism too, just see the wheel of 12 or 13 Kalis of the Krama system or Abhinavagupta's Trika, which represent various states of human awareness) and She is so much more than what can be deduced from Her iconography.

Moreover, She is the chief of Dasa Mahavidya.

>So that's why I have no fear of Kali

Depends on Her aspect tbqh fam. Some are gruesome (like Bhadrakali), some are more benevolent (in appearance and demeanour at least, the Goddess is always benevolent, as She is consciousness and knowledge, the only thing to fear is ignorance), but yeah, have no fear.

Anyway, Kali Kaula is a nice introduction to Kalikula and Shakta tantrism at large. A bit lacking in certain aspects but a nice entry-level book.

>The Mahanirvana Tantra says there are no pashus in the Kali Yuga.

Perhaps, I read it several years ago, nevertheless most tantras speak of passhus, viras and divyas. The problem with tantras is that they were never meant to be studied by a lone practitioner. No single tantra contains a whole set of instructions, which makes it so much more valuable to study lots of them, from different currents and forge your own understanding.

Anyway, I recommend to anyone the works of Abhinavagupta and his disciples. It's a much more organized lineage and Trika is in itself a synthesis of various Tantrik currents (Kaula, Krama, Pratyabhijna, Trika and Spanda amongst others). While the Natha traditions have a number of great texts, Shakta most certainly do too, but only in Kashmir Shaivism Tantra has finally reached it's full potential IMHO.

>I will not renounce Kama anytime soon

"A bhogin cannot be a yogin" as a number of influential tantras has stated. There is a difference between renouncing pleasure and being able to control your desires. Anyway, you do what you do, who am I to tell you otherwise? I just don't think it's the wisest idea.


>a good introduction to Hindu beliefs and philosophy

There are no "Hindu beliefs" nor a "Hindu philosophy". There are countless sects, often being in disagreement with each other. It's true that all of Hindu sacred writings are "canon", and new writings were just interpreted as a new version of the old truth, but still… There are plenty of differences. If you want to start studying Tantra then I can be of help, just bear in mind that I haven't studied in depth all of Tantrik lineages and currents (not even those materials of which are available in English) as there are countless branches of Tantra.

Guys, are you interested in Tantra discord channel or something? Exchanging ideas, informations, experiences etc.?



>Sorry if I came of as an arrogant fuck

No way man, you've been totally helpful and kind. I'm searching up and bookmarking all the books you've recommended so I can read them later.

>Actually the mantra of Daksinakalika is the only Tantrik mantra I know of that is said to not require initiation into by Guru.

Is this the Daksinekalika mantra?


I've used Aum Krim Kalikaye Namah before, of course without initiation from a guru. Where one would find an authentic guru in a Western country I don't know. As stated before Westerners have horribly corrupted yoga and especially tantra.

An yeah, I guess I do want to try tantric sex because DUDE SEX LMAO, but who doesn't? I also want to live with desire without being controlled by it. Compared to the average guy on the street, I control my mind very well, though I guess that's not saying much. Better than average, but still lots of room for improvement.


File: afb77aa726519f3⋯.jpg (135.65 KB, 564x690, 94:115, 2291c1527029c397d77548ccf1….jpg)

Anyway, sorry if my responses are a bit chaotic and disorganized, I'd really like to write up something properly about Tantra, to which I've felt unexplainable pull ever since I first got into the occult, but I'm really busy with life stuff atm.

If there are people who are interested in Tantra then I'd be more than happy to exchange knowledge and maybe form a small community or something if there is enough of us, what do you guys think about that Discord channel idea?

There is a wealth of information, especially about Kashmir Shaivism which has received attention from a number of scholars and there is a lot of valuable texts. I aim to be a Shaivite Shakta, but I feel as my knowledge is really disorganized so I need to rectify that.

There is a number of projects that I started working on or plan to work on after I have more free time and having people to discuss the ideas with could be really helpful.


Yes, this is the chief mantra of Kali, although Woodroffe suggested that Daksinakalika mantra is without Om in the beginning and that by adding it, it becomes Mahakali mantra, so according to him the mantra you linked is actually Mahakali mantra. There is a lot of cool things that you can do with that mantra too, like applying kavacha (mantric armour) for example.



Maybe make a blog with a recommended reading list, book reviews, commentary and the like? I'd read it.

I will try that mantra 108 times. I actually wrote it down yesterday because I read about it on that shivashakti website in the link I posted about the Vira Sadhana. "It causes pashus to become viras" it says.


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None of that honestly helps me in the slightest and just makes me more confused. Maybe you could tell me how you became well versed in Hinduistic mythology and practices? If that is even the right way to put it….


I'd also read a blog like that, Discord channel I don't think I would have anything to provide other than questions.


File: 597b40512c23ea7⋯.jpg (182.23 KB, 497x813, 497:813, kubjika.jpg)


>Maybe make a blog

Will think about it.

>I will try that mantra 108 times

First the mantra should be activated, there are various ritual procedures for that including, but not limited to, repeating it shitload of times, like 1000 or 10000 times. That takes serious dedication, on the other hand it's a great exercise of will.

Anyway, there are some unorthodox methods of awakening the mantra. I recommend first bringing your attention to the meditative image of Kali (check Shivashakti, there should be some nice description), then, or at the same time as you concentrate on the image, repeat mentally the mantra. Don't repeat it mindlessly! Pay full attention to the syllables.

Moreover, some texts say that any mantra must be synchronized with hamsa mantra (or so'ham) - which is your breath basically. Try and divide the mantra in two or four and then mentally repeat it while breathing slowly, for example: first part on the inhale, second on the exhale etc. get into the rhythm.

Additionally it is useful to know the metaphysics of mantra in order to get the most out of it. For now I will just say that in Tantra microcosm is an image of macrocosm (think of as above so below). Mantras aren't just meaningless words, even bija mantras have their (esoteric) meaning. Mantra is actually a deity, treat it as such. It's the very essence of deity (in this case at least) in the soundform, encoded in the form of vibrations. By repeating it, you bring it to your consciousness, eventually becoming the very deity that you worship! That is the secret, the essence of non-dual worship (the only worship that is employed in Tantra tbqh) - "to worship a deity one must become a deity".

Don't treat it as a spell, don't expect things happen to you, treat the mantra as a conscious entity, because it is. I strongly suggest that you treat it with an utmost respect.

There is a lot of things that I haven't said and mantra shastra is an enormous body of practices, what I wrote is just bare bones of this shastra. For example there is a great significance given to speech in Tantra (in much broader sense than we are used to when we consider the word speech), and there are many levels of it. Also, the significance given to Sanskrit rivals, if not surpasses, that of Hebrew in Kabbalah.


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>Maybe you could tell me how you became well versed in Hinduistic mythology

I didn't.

There are various groups of writings in Hinduism. Anyway, let me digress for a second. Even the term "Hinduism" itself is incorrect. It has it's beginnings in the colonial times, as Europeans thought that the inhabitants of the subcontinent surely have their "one faith", much like they did, so they actually coined the term. In reality Hinduism is just an umbrella term for countless sects, with different modes of practice, slightly, or a lot, different deities, different codes and ethics etc. Nowadays it is much less pronounced, because the inhabitants of India were actually "indoctrinated" by Westerners. No, really, the education system is very much informed by Western ideas about India and not the actual roots of their religion.

There are various writings and the old writings were never replaced by new ones and deemed not canonical or whatever. You have vedas which are the oldest, and they are quite a mix of ritual procedures, myths, hymns, proto-yoga etc. Then you have upanishads, which are called Vedanta (the crown of vedas) as they take the ideas present in vedas and make them more subtle, take them to their next step. You also have puranas which are mythological tales about deities and their deeds. There is a lot of other subgroups of texts, but mostly they roughly fall into the time periods and styles of the above mentioned.

And then you have tantras, which are yet another class of texts. Tantras are the apex of this whole evolution, the most esoteric and the most powerful. They are the Shastra for this Yuga. In tantras you also have vedic and upanishadic ideas but from a wholly esoteric perspective.

Tantras (but not all of them mind you!) aren't concerned with mythology, but with magic and spirituality. They internalize things that were previously external. They aren't concerned with stories, but with mechanics of consciousness, of energy and how they can be utilized (well, amongst other things). For example in vedas you had Purusha, a sort of mythological cosmic man, in tantras Purusha became the metaphysical principle of individual consciousness.

Of course neither of those subclasses of texts are unified, but as I said in regards to Hinduism - there are countless sects, being sometimes in disagreement with each other. And so in tantras you have different Tantrik currents, which base their ideology on different texts. A very intuitive categorization can be based on whom these currents regarded as a chief deity (which in Tantra isn't regarded as a mythological figure, or at least not only, but as a metaphysical principle) so you have Shaivism, Shaktism, Vaishnavism, Smartism amongst others. Each of them has it's own subdivisions, either based on the further manifestation of the Divine they regard as a chief deity (for example Shaktism having it's further subdivisions into, amongst others, Kalikula, Śrikula, Tarakula) or on different modes of practice (for example Shaivism having many subcurrents such as Trika or Spanda). Sometimes they are in direct contradiction towards eachother for example dualistic Shiva Siddhanta and monistic Trika (such situation isn't encountered in Tantra only as you have both dualistic Vedanta - Dvaita Vedanta and monistic Vedanta - Advaita Vedanta). There are also currents that I omitted.

These aren't set in stone barriers between those currents. Lots of brahmins who were vedic purists were also (often in secrecy) accomplished tantrikas and different texts and traditions freely intermingled with each other. We also need to take into consideration geography and time periods, as Southern Tantrik currents were different from Northern ones.



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What is perhaps most interesting about all of this is the progressive evolution from vedas to tantras, from external to internal, from exoteric to esoteric. The later traditions didn't just scrape the older teachings, they interpreted them in a more esoteric way, according to their capabilities and spiritual progress and so you have Abhinavagupta's Paramarthasara which is an expanded edition of an older Paramarthasara of Adiesa which presents teachings from Trika's esoteric point of view or Abhinavagupta's commentary on Bhagavad Gita.

There were also folk traditions which weren't written in any text. Anyway, most tantrik texts remain untranslated, in manuscript form or lost.

There are other shastras which are also a part of "Hinduism", such as yoga for example with it's own subcategories, astrology, alchemy (both vedic and tantrik) etc. Most of the ideas and currents were intermingled with each other. You also have Jainism and Jain tantras, Buddhist tantras too, also there was a transmission of teachings between them, not to mention transmissions between different sects of Hindu Tantra.

I don't have much knowledge about vedas, puranas and upanishads, I don't really like mythology and am solely interested in the most esoteric and practical teachings. Anyway, this is just the tip of an iceberg, but that should give you a taste what are you dealing with. If you want to learn this stuff then just pick some current and start studying. If your interest is solely academic then I recommend starting with Kashmir Shaivism as it gets a lot of attention from scholars and there is a lot of academic publications. Not to mention that Shaivism is actually quite ordered, especially Abhinavagupta's synthesis of various Tantrik schools.


honesty don't see a point on even trying to study this stuff anymore. as pointed out most texts are either not translate or missing even then the translations aren't gonna be ideal cause we wont truly understand the meanings or lack the vocabulary to explain it. We'll have an idea but that's not the same thing as knowing.


>I don't really like mythology and am solely interested in the most esoteric

seems like TO ME that people would have a better understanding of deities and their roles if they studied the mythology. Like you pointed out Hinduism and tantra are a cluster fuck and even then there doesn't seem to be a unified definition of what is tantra. For every current of tantra there was probably their own story to explain the deities role. They seem to adapt to whatever culture and try to stay low key.

>practical teachings

Sit there and repeat mantra until placebo kicks in

Fun thing are fun and have a purpose.



>even then the translations aren't gonna be ideal cause we wont truly understand the meanings or lack the vocabulary to explain it

That's why you practice things yourself, to get direct understanding.

>people would have a better understanding of deities and their roles if they studied the mythology

people would have a better understanding of deities and their roles if they actually practised the system and got in contact with them

>Hinduism and tantra are a cluster fuck

You don't need to study all of it. I tried to get as broad knowledge as possible regarding the system simply because I resonate with it pretty well and this stuff is actually very interesting to me. Even reading one tantra and practising meditations and energy work contained therein has benefits, even without a broader picture. Nevertheless it certainly helps if you have it.

>there doesn't seem to be a unified definition of what is tantra


>For every current of tantra there was probably their own story to explain the deities role.

Not necessarily, they all based their definitions on older sources and they all come from the same source, despite the differences. The fact that there is so much diversity doesn't mean that there aren't common denominators nor that the teachings do not converge at some point. Don't cling so hard onto forms, they are just tools and means to an end. Some people prefer one path, some other. I think it's good that this system provides an ability to choose.

>Sit there and repeat mantra until placebo kicks in

*tips fedora*

Also, it's heavy reductionism to assume that Tantra = mantra. Mantras have a very prominent role, but Tantra is a complex system in itself. For every thing in Western occultism you could find a Tantrik counterpart of it (nevermind the fact that so much of the teachings of contemporary Western occultism come directly from Eastern texts, just in a heavily degenerated form).

>Fun thing are fun and have a purpose.

What tantras have you read?




"Second-hand knowledge of the self gathered from books or gurus can never emancipate a man until its truth is rightly investigated and applied; only direct realisation will do that. Realise yourself, turning the mind inward."

~Tripura Rahasya



*tips fedora*

sorry lad until I experience something besides a dream I'm not gonna have a better idea of what it is.

>For every thing in Western occultism you could find a Tantrik counterpart of it

and the counter part of hermeticism?

>just in a heavily degenerated form

what makes tantra much better?

>What tantras have you read?

cant remember, part of kiss of the yogni I use to be like you wanted to find the similarities in all different tantras but I'm not really into it anymore. The more I read the more I realize people get into magic for the wrong reasons and if you want it ti work your basically doing magic for the sake of doing magic.

I guess I'll do the kali mantra since you don't need a guru


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>Some people say using Kali's mantras is dangerous, that she might bring bad luck.

They tend to produce rapid change. Shortest route to the outcome kind of stuff. Also tends to cut through the ego and falsehoods.

Based on personal experience.

Your dealing with an aspect of divinity that solved an unsolvable problem.

Skin black with rage.

Made a skirt from the forearms of her dead enemies.

Made a necklace with their heads.

Then danced.

Who can't relate to that?

I like listening to the mantras, especially when feeling under duress.

Beyond that the scope of this thread is far too intellectual for my instinctual kind of magic.

Good luck with whatever you do.



>sorry lad until I experience something besides a dream

""""magix not real, I have tried it and it doesn't work, pack it up bois""""

>and the counter part of hermeticism?

Tantra? At least according to Bardon.

Bardon wrote that what Tantra is for the East, Hermeticism is for the West. Tantra just contains much more diverse practices and in my opinion contains generally much more than Hermeticism. I always thought that the theory section of IIH is heavily inspired by Tantra anyway, but maybe Bardon came up with it on his own.

>part of kiss of the yogni

Kiss of the Yogini is not a tantra but an academic publication by an author who confessed he has no practical knowledge in this stuff and is just a scholar. Wealth of information for sure, but not a tantra.

>The more I read the more I realize people get into magic for the wrong reasons and if you want it ti work your basically doing magic for the sake of doing magic.

What kind of half-assed strawman is this? What are you even trying to convey?



>pack it up bois

Where exactly did I tell you to give up?

>What kind of half-assed strawman is this? What are you even trying to convey?

why dont you tell me?



>with a whore


cultivate more attraction, get a gf that still looks at you with love in her eyes as youre balls deep down her throat.

alchemy is awesome.



Do mudras belong here too?


so is this thread like hinduism general?

from what I could tell hinduism is just three smaller religions squished into one. Like the gita comes from one, and another is some vedic stuff.

Anyone actually understand this?

I have to say though, I've had a gander at the Gita and it is very enlightening. want to learn sanskrit one day


yea although you should at least read the entire wiki article on mudras, you should know what to research from there really



Of course.


>from what I could tell hinduism is just three smaller religions squished into one



I beg to differ.

>Like the gita comes from one, and another is some vedic stuff

Gita is (a part of) the "vedic stuff".

>I've had a gander at the Gita and it is very enlightening

Abhinavagupta's commentary on it - Gitartha Sangraha is even more so.


What do you think of urine drinking, tantrabro?

Seriously; its an stablished hindu/tantra practica and easy to do, but of course I hesitate because of cultural upbringing.



>its an stablished hindu/tantra practica

That's the first time I hear about it in the context of Tantra tbh. The only source (well, as much as it can be called a source) on this that I could find is Shivambu Kalpa, which is said to be a section of a larger work - Damara Tantra. Which doesn't make a lot of sense, as I studied Damara Tantra and it haven't mentioned urine-drinking anywhere as far as I remember. I also quickly went through this tantra just now to refresh my memory and found nothing. On the other hand, these may be different works, especially seeing how this "Shivambu Kalpa" is supposedly a dialogue between Parvati and her consort, while in Damara Tantra it's Bhairavi.

Anyway, never encountered mentions of this practice in any tantra and I never drank my urine either. I don't know anything about it in the broader context of Hindusim, I think in most ajurvedic texts it's cow urine anyway.


>Its "method of drinking urine for rejuvenation" is outlined in the Shivambu Kalpa Vidhi, part of a 5000-year-old document called the Damar Tantra

Even Rgveda is 4000 years old tops, so I really doubt the authenticity of these claims. Nevertheless, I haven't given it much research, so if you learn anything about it I'd gladly hear it.

But yeah, urine-therapy was never my cup of… tea?


Just for the purpose of having sex

+ Which I don't see would harm you in any way

The Highest light in the Land

The Jewel in the Lotus

is the best book.

Its crude sketches make it seem animate


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File: 8576ef98cbf68cb⋯.jpg (3.67 KB, 224x224, 1:1, minm room.jpg)

is it possible to meditate deeply in your apartment?

All the texts say great sages went deep into the forest but if all the forests in your country are private property or the like; is it the same?

Maybe I should stop being a hippie tree-hugger and meditate in the city.



Trees aren't implicitly required for meditation, it's the Forest.

You have to go far away from others, and be undisturbed by man for a long time if you wish the same experience, and shitty city air doesn't tend to help. Anywhere can work, if you can be alone and undisturbed, and far away from distraction.



>is it possible to meditate deeply in your apartment?

Sure it is, meditation is about turning within. It doesn't matter where you are, you are turning within anyway, and your within is the same, be it in the city or in secluded mountain forests.

>All the texts say great sages went deep into the forest

All the texts were written before industrialization. We must make our own paths now and not try the hardest to emulate the old ways. Of course, if you can get in touch with nature then do it. If you can mediate in a secluded location undisturbed then it can be helpful, if you don't then you just have to make do with what you have. Don't use not having perfect conditions as an excuse, because they will never be perfect. It's not about your external conditions, but your internal processes.

"Bad smells and perfumes one should sense as equal.

Just as a lotus petal in water is without stain, so a Yogi is

unmarred by merit or sin. In one in whom this mental

disposition has blossomed there is no difference between

killing a Brahmin or the Ashvamedha sacrifice, nor is there

any difference between bathing in all the sacred waters or

contact with barbarians.’’

~Kaulajnananirnaya tantra


I'm so in the tao right now that I need a young boy to tongue my anus but before I would be sure to bath us in lots of urine (his)

Wait.. this IS a tantra thread, right?


1. you are in a box

2. you are surrounded by an electric field detrimental to the aura and body consciousness

3. nature is made up of recurring fractals and if you don't know what that means then just lol

stupid larpers


I just activated my kundalini listening to this, wut do?




Tao is not degenerate



📉🌴🌴🌴 meditate


YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.


This one really activates my almonds

actually zeds dead has much better mixes that are not on jewtube



For you




Not going to listen to your jew music



No one will ever give a fuck about you. Enjoy pathetically dying alone



Haha yeah! Atkinson amirite?



Iknowrite? I yoose the law of atrakchun and it works cuz I'm a Pisces lol XDDD




Say that to me in the Astral not online faggot



Ya as long as u got all ur 50$ chakra stones xDDDDD



Nope ur wrong, I'm a magus 😂😂😂




Hey how do I same?



Damn good discussion in this thread. Have lots of research and reading to do now.



The Tao encompasses all things. To classify it as either degenerate or not degenerate is to lose its essence.




the tao doesn't encompass jews and degens their part of the demiurge and must rope



I'm not the tantrabro but urine drinking is great if you want to raise your vibes/expand your aura fast.

It will leave you spacey and unstable and a little weak from the growth but you'll be buzzing with energy.

If I were to do it safely, first I'd be well-grounded for a good month, then I'd go for 3-6 days, observing when I get ungrounded, stopping when I do to integrate the expansion.

or just do whatever and experiment. I did it for 3-10 days straight when I was already ungrounded kinda, because it was fun/a way to escape from being sad.

Khan said it raises vibes faster than even dry fasting




didn't mean to reply but

>making any assumptions about the tao



gone :(




off with ye, heathen


>The Jewel in the Lotus



File: ec193cb9deb37c1⋯.jpg (724.51 KB, 700x996, 175:249, kali s low.JPG)



>Actually the mantra of Daksinakalika is the only Tantrik mantra I know of that is said to not require initiation into by Guru

>Woodroffe suggested that Daksinakalika mantra is without Om in the beginning and that by adding it, it becomes Mahakali mantra

So basically if I want to activate this particular mantra I'll have to use the form without Om? It feels like this may just be a petty semantic issue, however with mantras it might be important to be picky about what exactly I'm chanting. After activating the Daksinakalika mantra will it be cool to upgrade to the Mahakali version, by say chanting it 10,000 times?

I'm not quite ready to commit myself to the goddess Kali in the first place, and have quite a lot of study ahead before making such a decision, however if and when that occurs I'd just hate to be wasting all this mantra mojo chanting some incorrect bullshit that requires guru initiation.

Thanks for all of your info in this thread too, hope you're still browsing tantrabro.


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I'm not browsing anymore, but it seems Divine Providence led me here to answer this question on this very day :^)

Well, I only wrote what Woodroffe 'suggested', and he is known to be wrong here and there. Make out of it what you will. I'm posting a pdf by Mike Magee, it should be of interested to you.

>After activating the Daksinakalika mantra will it be cool to upgrade to the Mahakali version

When you activate it, I'm sure Kali will guide you the rest of the way.

>chanting it 10,000 times

Yes, but I've always thought it to be a figure of speech. I mean - I don't think it's the exact number of repetitions that matters. You could repeat it mindlessly for an eternity, but if you don't bring your full consciousness into it - the mantra stays dead, just a lump of vowels. Make a meditation out of it, focus on nothing else than the mantra, give it your full awareness. If you are able to do that then you will surely achieve success. You don't have to chant it, it's even preferable that you don't, that you only repeat it in your mind.

'The Vaikhari Japa (loud mantra recitation) gives the reward as stated in the Vedas, while the Upamsu Japa (whispering or humming recitation) which cannot be heard by anyone, gives a reward a thousand times more than the Vaikhari, but the Manasika Japa (mental chanting) gives a reward a multi-myriad times more than the Vaikhari.'

~ Sandilya Upanishad

>chanting some incorrect bullshit that requires guru initiation

There are different kinds of initiation. There are no rules set in stone just because a number of texts say there are. Abhinava talked about an initiation by a "trial of consciousness" or something like that. Which is basically self-initiation because of virtue of your cultivation. Mantra repetition is a meditation technique. Whatever ability or achievement you get by meditation is yours, no one can take it away from you by saying that you are not qualified for this or that. Sure - some practices seem impossible to master for a beginner because the Guru initiation shows you a glimpse of the power needed to achieve success in the technique you work on (that's why you can't practice Dzogchen for example without a Direct Introduction). Without it you are in the dark. Nevertheless there are exceptions, as the tantras have stated that practitioners of a high level of grace do not need outer initiation into anything. Nevertheless - I pointed out how Daksinakalika mantra is one of a kind - not requiring formal initiation in a tradition where such a thing is a given for basically any practice. Also, I exchanged some emails with Magee and he doesn't think that you need a formal initiation to get benefit from stuff in tantras either.


File: 73b73b9e49c9610⋯.pdf (367.58 KB, Revised_Magic_of_Kali_2007.pdf)



So yeah - if you chant it 10000 times with devotion to Kali - you will get some benefit, no doubt about it. If you meditate on it one-pointedly - you will progress as a result, your focus will become one-pointed and the mantra will be yours, along with a host of benefits that come with meditation generally and aren't particular to the kind of meditation object you focus on.

Stuff may happen even after a few repetitions. There was a story I recall (probably read it in Aghora by Svoboda) about some guy that was out in the woods and witnessed an Aghori ritual, in which an ascetic used a corpse as a seat for his mantra japa (that thing is particular to Vamachara and particularly Aghora, which uses taboo-breaking and highly controversial practices in order to force a quicker progress on spiritual path, as for an accomplished yogi everything is pure), the guy overheard the mantra and when the Aghori was unsuccessful in his practice, he took his place, did a few repetitions and Smashana Kalika appeared before him, because as it turned out he was a Tantrika in his previous life, initiated into this mantra, and he was very close to accomplishment in this practice when he died, so in this life he had a chance to finish what he started. The story is probably bullshit anyway, but the moral is important - shit may go down even if you don't repeat it thousands of times. Anyway, if a Devi ever appears before you then don't ask for something silly. I watched this great movie which was based on the Abramelin ritual, it was awesome, go give it a try, it's called A Dark Song. I mean, some portrayals of the occult were far off and they went for the 'it looks cool' approach at times but still, a great movie. The ending was really… out of this world.

Yeah, anyway

>I'm not quite ready to commit myself to the goddess Kali in the first place

In the most esoteric facets of Tantra Kali is viewed as the power of your expanded awareness. How can you truly commit yourself to yourself? Of course, that is the highest of realizations, one that I haven't achieved, I admit. I'm not a Guru, don't listen to me. Also commit is such a strong word. Try it out, play with it, no one asks you to make any commitments if you don't want to. It's your path, your cultivation, your meditation, no need to unnecessarily limit yourself.

Also if you are interested in Tantra generally then check out:





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Thank you very much for your quality response there, and for the PDF. I've been probing this thread for a while now, and have a sizable reading list from all the texts that were mentioned in here. Currently reading the Kali Kaula that you've recommended in multiple places, and I'm enjoying it, though at this time it hasn't influenced my practice just yet. Probably still too early in the thing.

>'The Vaikhari Japa (loud mantra recitation) gives the reward as stated in the Vedas, while the Upamsu Japa (whispering or humming recitation) which cannot be heard by anyone, gives a reward a thousand times more than the Vaikhari, but the Manasika Japa (mental chanting) gives a reward a multi-myriad times more than the Vaikhari.'

I've heard this exact same sentiment expressed before. What I'll probably do is get some prayer beads with the usual 108, then first do it out loud for a round, and then internalize it. In my experience doing a mantra out loud can help cement the thing in my head before I simply repeat it mentally.

Also, given that you're "not browsing anymore" is there any other means the anons here have of maintaining contact? You've clearly got a great sadhana going on, and quite frankly your posts are the best thing on /fringe/ right now not trying to flatter, just being honest It would be a huge damn shame if you vanished completely on us. A discord, blog, or something of the sort would be great.

Gonna go check out those other posts now bro Thanks again.



>A discord, blog, or something of the sort would be great.


I don't really think I've got much to share and nowadays I much more prefer to quietly focus on the stuff I do rather than talk about it, but more occult friends is always nice.


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Without a root Guru (root because he awakens your Kanda nadi in the root chakra) you can do whatever you want for lifetimes, it's going to be very very difficult, even if you make progress you could be lost for kalpas in the samadhi realms.

I've come here to rescue the chosen one. (I'm not a Guru but I found mine.)



If I look back I turn to salt. If I look forward I become nothing. If I look up I see God. If I look down I see Satan. What are the chances of me looking up?




Where does one find a guru?



Also, what's a kalpa?



It's an absurdly long period of time in Hinduism.


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Thank you.



This is why I'm so skeptical of the "mystics are just powerless magicians" narrative, because we've all known that guy who is 100% a virgin occultist, and as exaggerated as the Chad yogi is supposed to be, no smoke without a fire.



fukken sav'd



Countless kalpas, is the time that you guys will be reborn in the 6 realms of existence if you guys don't find a real root Guru or at least cultivate merit from NOW. And believe me the lower realms are way worst than this world.

How to know that he's a Mahasiddha? You need to meet him in person, then you'll know, because you are going to see miracles. How to find it anyway? Idk lol, you need to be extremely lucky to find someone who has achieved Mahamudra. I've found mine but obviously I'm not going to post his contact info on a public forum.

You need a hilarious amount of merit to really find Him. And you need a real aspiration to get out of this structure of Creation and give up every single thing to achieve this, real Hotsu Bodaishin.

Without Shakti, transmitted by the Guru (Shaktipat), or by grace from Mother it's not possible.

Don't search in big groups, like Sadhguru for example who has achieved it but only gives Shakti to a very small close group that I guess it's pretty hard to get in.



Cultivate merit from NOW? How? Explain further please. What's merit?

>Without Shakti, transmitted by the Guru (Shaktipat), or by grace from Mother it's not possible.

Shakti? Grace from Mother? Mother who?

How do I get to work on helping myself right now?



Want to help yourself? Use this!

have some good resources. The threads this was on were suddenly archived or just deleted.

This video here, https://youtube.com/watch?v=CpH_rXGHX1w , is a remote "soft kill shield" for targeted individuals of all kinds. It will work to destroy many harassments. This other, https://youtube.com/watch?v=OZCgOoGSLdQ , is the second version of the targeted individual scatter frequency. I hope that they help."

"Dive deep within yourself, speak to your Higher Self (read http://www.ascensionhelp.com/blog/2013/08/23/why-i-am-no-longer-a-light-worker/ and http://www.ascensionhelp.com/blog/2013/11/21/tell-the-lords-of-karma-that-you-are-sovereign-no-longer-a-lightworker-part-2/, by Cameron Day), enter your Akashik records, and you shall Know. We are One with the All (Infinite Source) as the All (Infinite Source) is One with Us. If you need more guiding, read from Bibliotecapleyades and Montalk. Take what resonates. Finally, listen to the following videos  https://youtube.com/watch?v=RQIO9cqwgcE which connects you to the Universal and Infinite Love of the Infinite Source, https://youtube.com/watch?v=pSyUT2p4H24 which awakens your Intuitive Powers (Higher Self guiding), https://youtube.com/watch?v=feilxGTQkow which helps you realize the Divine Interconnection of Everything (your Divine nature), https://youtube.com/watch?v=LFXeCJ5j25o which cleanses your etheric body out of everything negative , https://youtube.com/watch?v=XvyPscRD1ss which cleanses your subconscious and your personal universe , (commas are flying so they do not become part of the link).

Each has instructions, and the last ones are particularly important; only watch them 1 time per day for 5 days, then rest for 2, and then you may repeat them. Beware that sometimes channels will try to brainwash you; the ones I have listed are safe. Reclaim your Divine Sovereignity, Fight the Parasites, STS/Duality/Low Vibration/Frequency/Density Beings and the different Matrix Control Systems.

Remember always, do not go into the light when you die."

Demons and archontic parasites absolutely hate the last video!

Also merging one of my other comments:

"The DrVirtual7 has made these amazing videos:  https://youtube.com/watch?v=YVDGY5BKT5k , to help you with making a Shield of White and Golden Light, and  https://youtube.com/watch?v=MrvQ-YNThDg , to protect yourself from and dissolve black magic, also cleaning the Space of Self."




since you're a kali devotee can you please tell me what does the tongue out mean. I ask because during some of my meditations my tongue pops out and my eyes are wide open and i feel a sense of freeing. I think this has to do with the throat chakra since I feel I'm unblocking it.

btw im a tibetan buddhist and we have a chant to Mahakala which is obviously related to Kali so maybe thats why im getting the tongue and eye thing going.

I feel very energized when that happens and then i close my eyes and keep meditating with my tongue out.


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>during some of my meditations my tongue pops out and my eyes are wide open

I'm not sure if i want to keep meditating anymore







No wonder. Tantric practice has always been meant to terrify mundanes and boggle their minds. That's a defense against the "pearls thrown to swine" effect.


File: 62f56c831d5d676⋯.gif (1.91 MB, 500x300, 5:3, napjskhC2z1s9f8i8o1_500.gif)


I'm not a swine…


File: 407c6fbaffc1340⋯.jpg (10.31 KB, 264x264, 1:1, CEIG0JBUsAArlJn.jpg)


ye you are little pige pige


File: 6a7dc330e7abad0⋯.jpg (93.83 KB, 864x960, 9:10, 1507544002840.jpg)










Do not be worried pige, from regular meditations your tongue will not pop out and your eyes will not be open. Do energy work, do meditation on empty mind, do visualization and imagination exercises. Keep it real and stay with the good old useful meditations, be a good piggy. I personally do not recommend this tantra bullshit where your tongue pops out while you get posessed by some faggot indian rape spirit.



Ah, ok thanks, that is a relief to hear, except the pige part.

I told you i'm NOT A PIGGY!



That's no possession though. More like donning a mask. Basic tantra is essentially about that - visualizing yourself as a certain "deity"/"buddha" thus gradually gaining its knowledge and power.



>I told you i'm NOT A PIGGY!

I am sorry you feel this way. I think it's better I go now. Farewell pige.


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this lol. i dont feel like im possessed and it happened only twice. its just some archetype thing where im seeing myself in an aspect of the absolute; in this case Kali or Mahakala which represents Protective Enlightened Activity.

An important thing in Tibetan Buddhism is what we call having enlightened view which means seeing things as they are at all times. Seeing yourself as an already enlightened being and this hastens the process of realization. Doing this while at the same time clearing your energy centers and working with negative emotion is what I do.


I had someone I trust recommend Kaula yoga, so it's quite the coincidence to see it brought up. Do you have any recommendations for a beginner "yogi." I know very little about tantra/yoga, so something that starts with the basics would be nice.


File: 707ce5b3ab3367a⋯.png (587.15 KB, 547x579, 547:579, kaula1.png)


Define what you mean by Kaula yoga please, because in it's original context it is quite a meaningless term. Especially given the context of your post - basics etc.

Kaula is a school that has a great significance amongst all the Tantrik schools (even Abhinava himself was led to the highest levels of spiritual realization by following it). Hatha yoga has its roots in Kaula, left-handed Indian currents have their roots in Kaula. Buddhist Tantra has its roots in Kaula. Kaula is the school of embodied liberation, that of jivanmukti - liberated while still living. The term Kaula itself roughly translates to "family".

Kaula yoga can really mean almost any Tantrik practice there is, and there is a shitload of them believe me.



I'm not sure which branch. I was just told that it was a path towards gnosis/divinization. My perspective is a very traditionalist and Vedic one, so if there's a certain branch that's very old, primordial even, that would be nice. Sorry for not knowing much on the topic.



Okay, read this thread and my other posts from another Tantrik thread linked above. It should give you a rough idea where to start with Tantra.

>path towards gnosis/divinization

What does divinization entail?

>My perspective is a very traditionalist and Vedic one

Care to elaborate what do you mean by this? People often say that they like Vedas or have a worldview influenced by Vedic thought, but many seem to confuse Vedic ideas with Vedantic ones and some even with Tantrik.

But if you are who you say you are then Kaula (and Tantra generally) certainly isn't fit for someone who has head filled with purity/impurity dualism and caste system ideology. Just a heads up. Vedas are the most exoteric group of Hindu writings and Tantra the most esoteric and internalized teachings. Vedic practice entailed only sacrifice to Gods. Which is fine you know, for what it is. I'm not saying that Vedas are wrong or false or whatever. They certainly aren't, but they were fit for different people, in different age. Tantra is the Shastra for this yuga and following its path bears many fruits. Of course, Tantrik ideas can be also found in Vedas, but still… the shift in perspective can be quite noticeable if you go into it with Vedic notions in your mind.



>that fucking underlining



How can a person tell when they have reached Mahamudra?



Dunno, I'm not much into Buddhism.



Go to my library, in folder "Yogas" in Buddhism you have a number of texts that speak about Tummo and other Yogas of Naropa.



Alright. I'll ask one more question, if you don't mind. If I know how to navigate death by recognizing that everything experienced at the point if death is a projection of my own mind, is it ok to kill myself if I find myself in agonizing pain one day? I'm not asking what the ancient texts say, I'm curious to hear your personal opinion.


File: 94867a45b7d8020⋯.jpg (47.97 KB, 640x640, 1:1, trist hin.jpg)


That's a really good question. Personally I 'feel' it is not okay and that it's better to continue living in this incarnation, nevertheless if you'd really

>know how to navigate death

then you can "kill yourself" either by means of utkraanti/phowa or transmigrate into another body by parakaayapraveśa/trongjug. Nevertheless, if you'd be able to do that, then you'd likely be also able to help whatever situation you are in. Anyway, this isn't something you'd casually do, as it requires rigorous training to pull it off.



Good luck, regardless of what you do.



what library?



It's literary on the first page



I like Tantra a lot. I find everything about the practice ideal. When I read books about it the authors tend to make me feel welcome, comfortable, and eager to participate. I listen to recordings of guided meditations and realize results. Everything goes fine… until I interact with other Tantric practitioners. Then it's uncomfortable at best and infuriating at worst.

If I ask the wrong question they get upset. If I talk about things I've experienced they get upset. I worked with a Guru for months but every time I tried to ask questions it seemed to be like I was bothering him. I went to that DharmaWheel forum and they were complete jackasses.

I have only taken the initiation/empowerment from myself and from recordings. The Guru I worked with irl didn't give me the Tantric initiation and every dharma class was the same lesson over and over again, with a few variations, so I eventually parted ways with him.

I found a Guru who would let me take initiations from recordings, but he is old and very busy, so it was suggested I work with his students instead. His students, however, said I couldn't take initiations from recordings. When I asked why they said they were just repeating what they were taught, with the implication that it would be rude to ask for further clarification. Around this point I gave in to the frustration and started yelling.

From what I was able to piece together later, their point is that unless the Guru is actively connecting to the student through time and space at the moment of the initiation, the student doesn't get the initiation.

My argument is that everything is void so the idea that the Guru has inherent existence is false. As such there is no need to transcend a physical body, since the body is illusory. In addition, since the Guru is void, there is no external Guru to request initiation from. The Guru is already within, and it would be asinine to have part of self saying to another part of self "No you can't have the initiation", since self is also void. From my perspective every initiation is a self-initiation projected outwards. From what I can tell, all of "reality" takes place on the curved screen of my eyes, events that I simply imagine are fundamentally as real as events I perceive any other way, so events taking place on a television screen are also "real". The Upanishads (iirc) say that if a student has complete faith even a rock can function as the Guru and lead a student to realization. A recording is much more interactive and easier to have faith in than a rock.

So this is where I'm stuck. Based on what i have experienced, as well as based on my current understanding of dharmic "reality", recordings either work fine (I have had intense meditative experiences of recieving initiation from recordings) or I already have the empowerment from previous lives. The Guru told me I had done work for him in previous lives, so this is possible. However when I try to talk to other Tantric practitioners all this reasonable conversation stops. I don't know if I karmically have earned mockery from them, and thus it's inescapable, or if I'm just an exception somehow and they aren't recognizing it.

I just want to get the initiation, live, so other Tantric practitioners will stop doubting me and I can feel accepted. I'm 99% sure I already have it, but I would like to be certain. I'd like to do so with the least amount of drama possible. Do you have any suggestions for how I could go about doing this without having to jump through a dozen hoops?



What do you need initiation for anyway? To feel accepted among your peers? Just tell them you were initiated and be done with it, it really doesn't matter much.

Whatever benefit you got from your practice - it's yours, no one can take it away from you or tell you that you are not qualified for this or that. Sure, empowerments and transmissions of teachings are powerful, but you can make do without them if need be. Really, don't get so hung up on the idea of initiation, just do your work and see where it leads you.



My understanding of what is taught is that without empowerment/initiation there is no realization of mahasiddhi, and in the off-chance there is such a realization without empowerment the practitioner eventually uses up all their poistive merit and falls back to either hell or the beginning of samsaric births.

It's confusing because I know self-initiation happens in the East, but in the West it's considered taboo. The issue isn't that I need to feel accepted, it's that unless I state "I took empowerment from so-and-so at such-and-such a time", I am not welcome to discuss my experiences or perspective woth most other Tantric practitioners. It is exceedingly ironic that the only person I've found willing to do so (you) is on 8/fringe/ of all places, and not a Buddhist. However this is a situation, as far as I know, that is common to all Tantric paths.

The secretary of the Guru whose recording I experienced initiation from called me crazy when I told her about it, even though based on everything I've learned, my results were ideal. The Guru I worked with irl said "Everything is illusion, that was just another illusion", so he believed me, but didn't find it significant. So I really have no idea if I received it or not, and if I did it didn't seem to come with any vows, which is apparently another issue but I'm not sure why.

I've taken to lightheartedly calling myself a Bastardsattva, i.e. a Bodhisattva no one wants to claim as part of their mandala. All of this kind of fell into my lap. I gave myself the vows because no one told me I couldn't. Pretty much everything I did, I did not realizing fully that I wasn't officially supposed to. I didn't ask permission to do any of it. I put it in my head that there were no Gurus to learn from, and that if Buddha could do it alone, I could. Once I started seeing results I happily contacted the students of the Guru who made the recording, but they said it was crazy to say I could work with a dead Guru. So now I really don't know what to think. The spiritual community is one of the jewels I have taken refuge in. I don't think they are supposed to be calling me crazy for succeeding. Very weird situation.

The primary issue that caused all of this is that I'm distrustful, headstrong and difficult to work with. That's why I'm trying to improvise. I have had a very difficult life in the military and it's made me rather… emotionally brutal. I tend to hurt people's feelings and make them feel disrespected. I can do ok typing because I can edit, but face to face I always say or do the wrong thing. That's why I decided to do it alone, out of necessity, not choice.



>My argument is that everything is void so the idea that the Guru has inherent existence is false. As such there is no need to transcend a physical body, since the body is illusory. In addition, since the Guru is void, there is no external Guru to request initiation from. The Guru is already within, and it would be asinine to have part of self saying to another part of self "No you can't have the initiation", since self is also void. From my perspective every initiation is a self-initiation projected outwards. From what I can tell, all of "reality" takes place on the curved screen of my eyes, events that I simply imagine are fundamentally as real as events I perceive any other way, so events taking place on a television screen are also "real". The Upanishads (iirc) say that if a student has complete faith even a rock can function as the Guru and lead a student to realization. A recording is much more interactive and easier to have faith in than a rock.

Everything you said here is correct, you've got it.

I have (present tense) three guides, two of whom have been dead since before I knew of them. The other one was a close blood relative and nothing short of a mythic hero to his children and grandchildren, now made even more mythical by the years which have passed since his death. Their being dead has had no negative bearing whatsoever on their teaching. My point is this: Anyone attempting to sell you on how you have to be a member of their special club to gain access to the infinite is full to bursting with horseshit.

There is never any shortage of various clubs selling their personal branded versions of Enlightenment™. This is a shell game meant for people who don't yet feel they have "earned" liberation, that they in their current form are too stupid/ignorant/lazy/greedy. They deny themselves enlightenment by dancing around it, playing these various games. The more they try to catch it, the more it evades them because they just strengthen the narrative of "I'm new, I'm not the master, someone else is the master. Some other ego knows best, some other ego is enlightened, so I can't be."

This is an excuse to remain an ego while maintaining some faith that progress is being made, that it all is okay because someday it'll happen. It has the exact same purpose and mechanism of a hamster wheel. You can clearly see that the price of getting those super special cosmic merit badges is your focus on the root of the matter. It's like saying that you cannot work out that 2 + 2 = 4 without having tenure as a math professor.


>they said it was crazy to say I could work with a dead Guru.

Then be crazy to them. What good is being sane in their eyes? Do the work before you. Comparing yourself to others is delusion, based in the artifice of 'attainment.' That's silly. "Aha, you have figured out that 2 + 2 = 4, BUT I figured that out AND I set up a school so that people can work really hard thinking about 2 and 2, and one day they might figure out that it's 4! Obviously I'm the better mathematician."



>Anyone attempting to sell you on how you have to be a member of their special club to gain access to the infinite is full to bursting with horseshit.

Before I started doing Tumo/Tummo the visions I experienced were all externalized. When I started doing guided Tummo sessions suddenly my vision went inside. Right before that happened I had the vision of being given the empowerment. So from my perspective something very different happened, but I don't know which part of the experience, whether it was the Guru, the deity, the Tummo, or the empowerment, or some combination of them, that made the difference. Since that happened any vision state I get to automatically goes on inside, in whatever that empty space between my brain and my eye is. I no longer have externalized visions.



I don't know enough about Tibetan Buddhism specifically to make a judgment call either way, but you ought to be extremely skeptical, to put it mildly, of anyone, no matter how otherwise enlightened, who claims that you need to be one of their spiritual frat brothers in order to truly 'get it.' They have every right to only let in whomever they please into their clubhouse, but that's all it is, a club, no matter what excuse they use for it.

That, and if you want to steal a good idea from a system without the permission of whoever came up with it, don't hesitate, steal it, use it and abuse it, once you know what it is. If they won't tell you, then they don't have a clue, so go ahead and use whichever ones work best for your current situation. Nobody has ever had a monopoly on liberation and nobody ever will.

If it helps, I'm also relatively asocial, or rather, my only moments of real anger or frustration or loss of wisdom of som form or other inevitably get traced back to having to put up with other people's social/peer-related BS, their ideologies, their goofy stories in which if they don't save the world personally it will come crashing down, blah blah blah. It's always there, I know, and I accept it, but part and parcel of that is accepting that it's really fucking stupid. As has always been the case, that gets carried over into every community, spiritual or otherwise, only when it's in a spiritual, mystical, or occult community, suddenly it's not just gossip or bald-faced ideology, it's idiots telling you that god himself with a capital G personally thinks their shit stinks less and that they're going to wake up the whole world because that's never ever been tried before in the history of mankind. It's hard to get dumber than that, and by the same token, it's difficult to blame you for not having a very good time with them.

tl;dr Don't worry about it, you have your facts straight on this, the rest is just playing around, so play as you want to, and don't play as you don't want to and the rest will sort itself out.



>their goofy stories in which if they don't save the world personally it will come crashing down, blah blah blah

I think that's a test everyone is given. You get in the habit of looking for synchronisities and one day you seem to get the message that something NEEDS your attention desperately. Like, a "world hangs in the balance" situation. I went through that feeling over the current political situation, until I realized I was getting sucked back into the illusions.

So there seems to be a choice then, after realization, the "live as a yogi or live a worldly life" thing. But I never really understood it completely. In the original story, from Hinduism, the God drops a thunderbolt on the demon and decides to become a yogi, whereupon his wife intervenes by having a messenger show that by dropping the thunderbolt on the demon he's apparently doomed to take rebirth as an ant, and start the process of lives over again. Am I understanding that correctly? Is it a test of realizing the demon is our own reflection/projection, and not to harm it? Is it possible to doom ourselves by making judgements after we wake up, when we really ought to know better?



Yes and no. It is possible to "backslide" into illusion if you allow yourself to space out or fall back into a bad mental habit, but it does not bar someone from recalling good habits and behaviors. Let's take an example from life.

I have a complicated history with social media. I've been very good at using it in the past, and yet I have a strong tendency to despise everyone I interact with while on it for being "unwise" (the tendency is hypocritical by nature), or even anyone in that ideological save-the-world mode. I mean I really, truly wish that some serious harm will come to them when it happens, it's not a fun feeling, but it's a whole mode of thought.

If I act unwisely and get on it, I can again slip into my old habits of thinking that these people deserve to be in some way punished or hurt, but when I stop to reflect, I know that I will be ashamed of my lack of thought at the end. If instead I act wisely and I disengage from the whole stupid tangle, I'm much more genuinely social, personable, and able to engage with others. It becomes a non-issue, even if the potential is there for me to slip back into it.

The lesson is simply that self-awareness always leads to good results, when put into practice. Self-ignorance always leads to bad results no matter what.


PS as always it is worth noting that the punishment for backsliding is the state of backsliding itself. There is no great punishment for ignorance beyond its immediate mental consequences, i.e. you can be a complete dingbat and still liberation will be available to you. It's a question of what you want and how you want it, not what is possible.



So is the messenger telling a lie when he says the God will be reborn as an ant for dropping the lightning bolt on the demon and feeling proud of it? The story makes it clear that this is always the result, and that this sequence of actions repeats itself forever. Do we recognize that and leave the demon alone?



I mean, it depends on how much you buy about reincarnation and allegory in these texts. All I can ever tell you is what seems to be the case for me. There are a plethora of ways in which issues can be resolved. I could do any number of things if I really cared that much about using social media again, but the easiest is to redirect focus. That's just in my example.

It sounds like this story is more about the round of samsara, though, which is a different conceptual region than I've been trying to convey. I'd need the story and context to be sure.



>and feeling proud of it

I'm sorry, I didn't see this bit before. That's a pretty crucial detail, actually. Nevermind my samsara comment, I was misinterpreting what you were saying. Again, I ought to have the story and context before I make any sort of ass-pull commentary about it.



Thanks much, reading now!


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>been reading up on all this stuff for months now

>finally starting to feel confident about selecting an istadevata and going forward with deity yoga practice

>roommate happens to acquire a large amount of LSD a few days ago

>decide to combine the two

>take two tabs, then go out into seclusion and try mala-japa for the first time using the Daksinakalika mantra

>it feels like I tried texting Kali, but she just ignored the message and blocked me

Just like every other woman in my life. I bet the male deities won't do this shit probably shouldn't have done the drugs



Psilocybin's better for making contact with anything feminine IME, LSD–if it's good LSD, goodness knows that's iffy these days–is often a more masculine experience. The partial dopaminergic character of ergotamines seems to lend them a sharpness tryptamines lack. I haven't tried phenethylamines but I strongly suspect they'll be even sharper.


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Hello everyone, I have a few very strong pranayama techniques that I would like to recommend to a few of you. Firstly, these practices demand chastity. By "chastity" that simply means no active indulgence in lust, pornograpy, edging, and most especially orgasm. Work on self-observation and meditation is also optimal.

You must primarily understand that pranayama and all tantric working is a system of sexual transmutation to awaken the Kundalini. The Kundalini is the igneous serpent of all our magical powers. There are many degrees and initiations related to this igneous serpent, living incarnation of the Divine Mother within ourselves.

Prana is the Great Breath. It is the Cosmic Christ. Prana is the life that palpitates within every atom, as it palpitates in every sun. Fire burns because of Prana. Water flows because of Prana. Wind blows because of Prana. The sun exists because of Prana; the life we have is Prana. Nothing can exist in the Universe without Prana. It is impossible for the most insignificant insect to be born, or for the smallest flower to bloom without Prana. Prana exists in the food that we eat, in the air that we breathe, and in the water that we drink. Prana exists within everything. When seminal energy is refined and totally transformed, the nervous system is provided with the richest type of Prana. This rich Prana is deposited within the brain in the form of pure Christic energy, the Wine of Light. An intimate connection exists between the mind, the Prana and the semen. We can gain dominion over the mind and Prana by controlling the seminal energy with the force of willpower. Those people who spill the semen can never gain control over their mind, let alone Prana. Their efforts to gain control over their mind and over Prana will undoubtedly fail. People who gain sexual control, also gain control of their minds and control of their Prana. These types of human beings reach true liberation.

The first technique I will share with you is called "Christic Egyptian Pranayama".

This technique is for men:

1. The disciple places himself in a chair or on the floor with his face directed towards the East.

2. The disciple prays to his Divine Mother with complete devotion and sincerity asking that she awaken him, awaken his Kundalini.

3. The chest, neck, and head should be in a straight or vertical line. Do not lean your body to the front, to the back or to one side. The palms of the hands should rest on your legs in a very natural position.

4. The mind of the disciple should be directed towards his Innermost, his Divine Mother, loving her, adoring her.

5. Close your eyes so that the matters from the physical world do not distract you.

6. Cover or close your right nostril with the thumb of your right hand. Mentally vocalize the mantra “TON.”* At the same time inhale slowly through the cavity of your left nostril.

7. Now, close the left nostril with the index finger of your right hand. Hold your breath; retain your breath. Mentally send the Prana to the temple of Ephesus (the Chakra situated in the coccyx, the small bone at the lower extremity of the spinal column) in order to awaken the Kundalini and mentally pronounce the mantra “SA.”

8. Now exhale slowly from the right nostril mentally vocalizing the mantra “HAM.”

9. Now close the left nostril with your index finger.

10. Inhale the life, the Prana, through the right nostril mentally vocalizing the mantra “TON.” Close both of your nostrils with your index finger and your thumb and retain the breath. Mentally vocalize the mantra “RA.” Send the Prana to the magnetic center of the coccyx in order to awaken the Kundalini.

11. Exhale slowly through the left nostril mentally vocalizing the mantra “HAM.”

12. This constitutes one complete pranayama.

13. Repeat this complete process six more times (twice a day at dusk and dawn).

14. The devotee will kneel on the ground.

15. Once he is on the ground the devotee places the palms of his hands on the floor, the thumbs of the two hands together.

16. Prostrated on the ground, with his body inclined forward, with his head facing the East, and filled with supreme veneration he then places his forehead on his hands, Egyptian style.

17. Next, with his powerfully creative word, the disciple vocalizes the mantra “RA,” the mantra of the Egyptians. This mantra “RA” is vocalized by prolonging the sound of its two letters, as follows: RrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrAaaaaaaaaaaa. Vocalize the mantra seven times.

If you are a woman, ask by replying to this post and I will send you the female technique.


File: 6e667a7147acb6a⋯.jpg (10.17 KB, 145x200, 29:40, fah.jpg)


Next technique:

Sit down comfortably: the eastern way (cross-legged) or the western way (on a comfortable armchair). Relax your bodies as children do.

Inhale deeply, very slowly, and imagine that the creative energy rises through the spermatic channels up to the brain; mentally pronounce the mantra HAM like this: HAAAAAAAMM.

Exhale, short and quick, as you pronounce aloud the mantra SAH: SAAAAHH…

Undoubtedly, you inhale through the nose and exhale through the mouth. While inhaling, you “mantralize” the sacred syllabe HAM (mentally, since you are inhaling through the nose); but you can articulate the syllabe SAH with sound while you exhale.

Next, a runic pranayama technique based on the rune Fehu, or it's esoteric pronunciation Fah:

When we get out of bed, with immense happiness we must salute each new day by raising our arms towards our Lord, the Sun Christ. The arms must be placed in such a way that the left arm is a little more elevated than the right one, and the palms of our hands must face the light in an ineffable and sublime attitude of one who truly longs to receive the solar rays.

This is the sacred posture of the Rune Fah. Thus, this is also a method to work with Pranayama, by inhaling the air through the nose and exhaling it through the mouth in a rhythmical way and with much faith.

Let us imagine in those instants that the light of the Sun Christ penetrates within us through the fingers of our hands, then circulates through our arms, inundates the whole of our organism, and finally reaches the Consciousness in order to stimulate it, to awaken it, and to call it into activity.

You must also practice this Runic judo in the mysterious and divine nights, before the starry sky of Urania, with the same posture, and praying like this:

Marvelous forces of Love, revive my sacred fires so that my Consciousness will awaken.






This short yet great prayer can and must be prayed with all of our heart, as many times as we want.


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>all tantric working is a system of sexual transmutation

It's not. Take any original tantra. And I mean that - any one will do. Quickly read through it. There, now you see how stupid this statement sounds for someone who actually gives a shit about tradition. Why do you guys have to call everything Tantrik or yogic or whatever. "Hey guys, I came up with this sick thechnique" would do, why do you have to hide under the guise of an ancient system with which you have virtually nothing in common, except for borrowing a few names here and there? It's not Tantrik, not in any respect. Period. You might operate under the assumption that Tantra is a fancy codename for any sexual practice. Well, it is not, Tantra is a complete system in it's own right. Why not call it Thelemic for that matter, and replace Divine Mother etc. with Babalon?

>sexual transmutation to awaken the Kundalini


>Christic Egyptian Pranayama

>Cosmic Christ

>pure Christic energy

Wait, so are we talking about Tantra or about Christianity? You know that these things don't really come together?

>mantra of the Egyptians

a.k.a. some bullshit I just made up

>Chakra situated in the coccyx, the small bone at the lower extremity of the spinal column

Oh, thinking that chakras have their set place in a body. A common misconception.

>People who gain sexual control, also gain control of their minds and control of their Prana. These types of human beings reach true liberation.

The funny thing is that Tantra (especially Kaula and similar schools) allows for laymen to practice it's techniques, therefore it is stated outright in Trika that a person can achieve liberation while still having sex, if said person engages in Trika yoga and upholds non-dual outlook during the intercourse (and, ideally, at all times). So you are presenting a very non-Tantrik idea, thinking that it's Tantrik.


When all it's said and done - that's just basic nadi shuddhi.

Now - don't get me wrong, it's cool that you post all of these techniques and whatnot, but next time don't hijack a thread that is devoted to a tradition you don't seem to know anything about.


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These are not my techniques nor have they been made up. They are from Master Samael Aun Weor many decades ago.

>>all tantric working is a system of sexual transmutation

>It's not.

Genuine Tantra is a method of purifying the consciousness of all egotistical elements: lust, pride, envy, gluttony, laziness, etc. This does not imply sexual transmutation outright, until you find out that the ego can only be disintegrated from the fires of Shakti, Kundalini.

>>sexual transmutation to awaken the Kundalini


Prana is sexual. All vital energy is based on sexual energy. Any type of creative energy is sexual.

>Wait, so are we talking about Tantra or about Christianity? You know that these things don't really come together?

Initiates are perennialists. The two olive branches that through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves in Zechariah 4:11-14 are the two nadis Ida and Pingala.

These (Ida and Pingala) are the two olive trees (of the temple), the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. These are the two witnesses, “and if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth and devoureth their enemies.” [Revelation 11:4, 5] These are just a couple examples.

>>Chakra situated in the coccyx, the small bone at the lower extremity of the spinal column

>Oh, thinking that chakras have their set place in a body. A common misconception.

Yes, Kundalini, the primordial energy of Shakti, rests dormant, coiled three and a half times inside the chakra Muladhara which is situated in the coccygeal bone.


You have misunderstood me by assuming that I believe that sexual union is forbidden in Tantra. On the contrary, I have simply shared the transmutation techniques for single persons, note that I only defined chastity as the absence of lust and orgasm, which fits under the "non-dual" outlook you described. The most powerful tantric practice is known as Maithuna(sexual union) in the Tantric scriptures.



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>These are not my techniques nor have they been made up. They are from Master Samael Aun Weor many decades ago

Not the dude you're talking to, but I picked up a text on the runes by Samael Aun Weor a few years ago. He was comparing the Elder Futhark to the Greek Illiad, as well as throwing in a very liberal dosage of supposed Gnosticism. From what I recall he was getting the most basic runic lore completely wrong.

My impression of his work was the confused ramblings of a severely schizophrenic person. Anyways it's good you didn't make this stuff up, Samael Aun Weor made it up.



>These are not my techniques nor have they been made up. They are from Master Samael Aun Weor many decades ago.

Yes, I've read a few of his articles about Tantra way back when. They are made up. Not by you, but by him. He has no knowledge of Tantra.

>Genuine Tantra

Well, if you are truly representing """genuine Tantra""" then maybe quote some tantra in favour of your view? You know, Tantra is an established tradition. You can't just go and add things to it. Something either is Tantrik - that is - is part of Tantrik tradition, or isn't. Stuff doesn't become part of Tantra just because you say it is.

>Prana is sexual

As much as anything else is sexual. Again - you are using words that already have their established meaning. Why not use your own words to express what you want to express? Why do you keep saying prana, Kundalini, Shakti or Tantra, while subverting their original meaning for your own ends?

>The two olive branches that through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves in Zechariah 4:11-14 are the two nadis Ida and Pingala

Or so do you say. You give this example, but it doesn't prove anything. You know, I can take any random and vagualy spiritual quote that mentions two channels/pipes/whatever and say they are Ida and Pingala. But are they truly? Even in traditions that have much more similarities (say - Tibetan Buddhism and Trika Tantra) the energy body systems were different in many regards and one could hardly equate on to the other. Maybe give it some more study?

>coiled three and a half times inside the chakra Muladhara which is situated in the coccygeal bone


I feel like I already reposted this a hundred times.

>You have misunderstood me by assuming that I believe that sexual union is forbidden in Tantra

No, you said that "all tantric working is a system of sexual transmutation", while it is not. Far from it. Sexual rites constitute a minuscule part of the system. For the most part it's ritual worship.

>in the Tantric scriptures

You seem eager to hider under the authority of scriputres. What tantric scriptures have you read?

Okay, so to wrap things up - you belive you are representing true Tantra, but you are not, and you don't even know this because no one has told you otherwise. Well, I do know. Make of that what you will, maybe read some proper book about Tantra or one of tantras themselves, just don't go on telling people that this or that is genuine Tantra, because you are very far from genuine Tantra and you are contributing to a widespread misinformation about the subject.

Here are some good resources about real Tantra:

How to chant OM and few other meditations from Vijnanabhairava:















As well as Hindu folder in my library, which is devoted almost solely to Tantra


For beginners I recommend:

Aspects of Kashmir Saivism by B. N. Pandit

Kashmir Shaivism: The Secret Supreme by Swami Lakshmanjoo

The Aphorisms of Siva: The Siva Sutra with Bhaskara's Commentary by Mark Dyczkowski

The Doctrine of Vibration: An Analysis of the Doctrines and Practices of Kashmir Shaivism by Mark S. G. Dyczkowski

then you can study Vijnanabhairava tantra (Swami Lakshmanjoo and Jaideva Singh editions) for a very comprehensive practice manual of Trika meditation

That should set you up in regards to Trika, but there is a great many Tantrik lineages that you can immerse yourself in, nevertheless I consider Trika to be the apex of Tantra. If you want a good entry-level book on Śaktism (and particularly Kalikula) then Kali Kaula is a great place to start, as are publications of Mike Magee. All of the aforementioned books (and much, much more) can be found in my library.

When it comes to Buddhist Tantra - you will have to figure it out yourself as I don't really have much knowledge about it.


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>Buddhist Tantra starting requirements

Here's a guide for anyone lurking:

1. Find a Guru from an established lineage

2. Study sutric level Buddhism with them

3. Receive a Ngondro (preliminaries) empowerment

4. Perform 100,000 prostrations, 100,000 Vajrasattva mantras, 100,000 mandala offerings, 100,000 Guru yoga sessions, and whatever else the Guru tells you to do

5. Hope the Guru accepts you as a disciple

Takes about 2 years for most people but the dedicated can knock it out in a few months. Generally speaking a student should be well-versed in understanding exoteric Buddhism before trying to dive into esoteruc Buddhism. I did everything backwards and it didn't do me any favors.

If you practice on your own without a Guru and experience siddhis, then go ask a Tantric Buddhist what happened to you they will 99% of the time treat you coldly, possibly even very rudely; their loyalty is to their lineage only, they don't help anyone outside of it. My understanding is that in Nepal/Tibet it is/was very easy to get empowerments, blessings, teachings, etc because there were Lamas in every village but in the West everything is a pain in the ass because there are so few Lamas and they are always busy, so they can afford to be much more choosy in who they accept as a disciple. Do not expect them to answer questions. I don't even recommend asking anything complex or in reference to siddhis/secret teachings until you've spent a few years under a Guru. If I had realized it was going to be so unfriendly I would have never taken refuge or vows. I don't regret it, but if I had to do it over I wouldn't bother. They are not there to help you. They are not there for the good of Buddhism. They are there for their lineage.

I'll also note that if you observe Tantric Buddhist forums online, none of them agree about anything, no matter how major or minor. You will very quickly realize most of them are either just repeating what they were told or interpreting things their own way. There is very little they can agree on and they mostly all act like they know everything, so it's non-stop arguments. Keep in mind, the Guru while sitting in the Vajra chair is considered to be connected directly to Buddha, faultless and perfect, but you'll likely realize they still make mistakes. They will tell you that sickness is caused by negative emotions, but they'll still get sick. So your faith will probably be tested constantly. Most people simply quit after a while due to all this BS. My Guru had new students every class, so every class ended up being an introductory class. Every week, new people, next week they'd quit, then more new people, repeat forever.

If you can find a Guru that answers questions, doesn't expect to be treated like royalty, and actually teaches a variety of topics, you've struck gold and should stay with them.



It's basically the same in just about any system. Even systems which get fundamentals right can disagree about everything else. The politics of who follows what lineage can and quite certainly should give any aspirant pause, although some schools will do this to see if you're gullible enough to fall for it, it's a phase to be pushed through. Nemesis-style masters are considerably more common in the east, and even local instructors in Asian countries will treat you like shit. Monks regularly get beatings from their masters, and anyone telling you it's just to focus concentration is lying, it's not to focus concentration, it's open corporal punishment. I'm not sure how common that is among Western gurus.

I admit it's funny to see how many "eat pray love" types see this and think "oh my god it's so different, they must be truly wise ascended masters!" which is like an Asian coming over here and treating a high school principal like a Nobel prize winner. You're dead right, they're humans, they're hardly infallible. Quite a number of masters in today's climate fell into the position through little more than a lack of competition within their schools.



That's a good justification but not always used. Some teachers say that, others have different justifications as to the opportunity presented by receiving some nominal pain. The point of all corporal punishment in this context ought to be corrective advancement, though.

>a secret

You have to love how the ancient sages loved to keep secrets, only to find out that the one bit of perfect and amazing profound wisdom they personally gleaned is the same secret all the rest of them have been trying to squirrel away. It's like trying to store sunlight in a vault.



With that said, it's still a good idea to shut up about it. Don't spoil the game for the rest of the players, I suppose. Self-saging for double posting, carry on.


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In Vajra they say if you teach Tantra to the public you go to Vajra hell in this lifetime. The only reason I push things is because I'm already in hell and from my perspective it would take a very impressive amount of unpleasantness for things to get objectively worse. It could be argued that hell doesn't exist but I'm 99% sure it manifests either as as insanity or in the form of destructive individuals attaining siddhi.



Sartre famously wrote that hell is other people. It's true. You're in the thick of the dark night of the soul, and my heart goes out to you, because I know what that feels like. It's not forever.


Insanity is not hell, just non-sanity. Although people play up insanity like just acting like an asshole is the same as mental illness, the truth is that having a 'sincere' mental illness is not the worst thing that could happen to you mentally. You already subject yourself to that much by belief alone, and it didn't take hallucinations or strong delusions (well, stronger than normal, anyways) to take you there.


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Heaven can be other people, too.

>insanity isn't hell

Don't be a stupid nigger who argues over pedantic bullshit after I just pointed out Yogis argue over every little thing, anon.



Hey, no pressure, just let us know how your current plan plays out, if you want. Good luck.


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What's the point of putting up with any of that bullshit there? The Guru doesn't bestow any magic powers on his students, we all have within ourselves right here and now every single thing we need to realize enlightenment in this very life.

<The Guru is oneself. The Siddha is oneself. The pupil is oneself. Shiva is oneself. Those fettered by ignorance know not of this, whilst he who does know is already free

I know he's not of the esoteric vehicle, but as Master Huineng points out in the Platform Sutra, when a lineage holder does the ceremonial transference to the next in line truly there is nothing transferred. It's simply one master looking into the eyes of another and knowing that he too has seen his Buddha nature.

For a long time I was flirting with the idea of joining a Kagyu or Dzogchen monastery, in fact I probably would have already if I wasn't on probation and presently damned to the life of a layman, however it struck me a while ago that nothing in my being would change merely from the act of putting on a robe. Shaivites believe that Shiva is all things, and that reality is fundamentally perfect exactly as it is. This is how the Aghori break every single social convention they have over in India, living in cremation grounds, eating dead bodies and drinking their own piss. They've realized it's all God, every single little speck, and that nothing they could ever do could alienate them from the presence of the Lord. I believe this is true.

However, with such belief what's the point of it all? That behavior would be great for breaking mental conditioning, but that's about it. The life of the lowliest laymen who flips hamburgers all day at McDonalds and has never even given a single thought to self-discovery is equally sacred and God pervaded.

<Ho! O Vajra Speech-Essence, listen! I, Samantabhadra, teach that by virtue of the first principle - that intrinsic gnosis is unborn and undying - there is not the slightest difference between a person who kills millions of sentient beings and one who practices the ten perfections

I can come to experience God-consciousness and embody Lord Hevajra himself while working in a restaurant, while laying in bed next to my girlfriend, or while shitposting on the internet all day.



Does a dog have Buddha nature?

Assuming you're a Westerner like me, and I'm curious how you feel about the implications of it all. Once you drive your Therveda car to nonduality land, once you get the message and hang up the phone, once you reach Satori, what do you strive for as an aspect of God living in the form of a human in 2018?

Is it cyclyical? The Buddha spoke of his first experience or glimpse of enlightenment beneath a tree as a child. If he had untied all of his knots at that point, could his subsequent pursuit of knowledge and explorations in hedonism/ascetiscism be seen as an endeavor to do something with the gift he knew he was in possession of?

Most of us still have to wake up and go to work, sweet talk our girlfriends, feed ourselves etc. What I'm getting at is how do you roleplay a human who knows they're not in a subject object relationship with the world around them? Where do you pick up a custodial uniform and a mop to do your part in toiling away at perfecting perfection?



There's a Zen saying for just about every goddamn thing, and in this case it's "before enlightenment, chopped wood, fetched water. After enlightenment, chopped wood, fetched water." Or something to that effect.

You do the same thing you were doing. You play any game you please. The only real difference is that when it comes down to it, you're not stuck wondering what the deal is. It's a very small change in the end, but it's infinitely valuable. You have a free pass to play any role you can get away with, without being bound to the outcome.

The secret of enlightenment is that there is really no way you could act more or less enlightened. You could not possibly do anything 'wrong' from the cosmic perspective. Choose anything, knowing it's a game.


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>Does a dog have Buddha nature?

Of course, consciousness itself is the Buddha.

>what do you strive for as an aspect of God living in the form of a human in 2018?

I can't really say as I haven't gotten there myself yet, however I imagine it would involve some degree of compassion and service unto others. In these images of Tibetan artwork I've been posting you can clearly see two deities going at it. The female is the Prajna (Wisdom), and also represents Voidness and Nirvana. The male is actually the lesser figure in the image and is called the Upaya (Means), who also represents Compassion and Samsara, for it's on the phenomenal/samsaric plane that compassion is expressed. Together the two create the bond of Mahasukha, Great Bliss.

The highest state of glory is achieved when one goes forth into the Deathless state, then brings back his experience into the mundane realm in order to serve his fellow men.

To an outside observer the whole process would probably appear mundane. As the anon above me wisely observed, before enlightenment chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment chop wood, carry water. I think one could perform the role of Bodhisattva in any station this world has to offer.

>What I'm getting at is how do you roleplay a human who knows they're not in a subject object relationship with the world around them? Where do you pick up a custodial uniform and a mop to do your part in toiling away at perfecting perfection?

All of us have already been roleplaying our entire lives, we just haven't realized this on an deep, instinctive level yet. However when we do finally find this to be true I doubt it will change much on a behavioral level. When someone plays D&D they know that truly there is no paladin, nor is there an orc, yet they still go into the next room and bash the creatures head in.

You are not there, your girlfriend isn't there, it's just God roleplaying as John Smith, fucking God in the role of Jane Doe. Yet you're still gonna fuck her and wake up for work the next day to keep on roleplaying.


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>thinking doing anything left hand path is a good idea

You deserve what you get




I had no idea this was the case, the same as the Egyptians did…

Thanks for explaining this.



Fehu is cattle/property/richer though.

Algiz/Algir (moose) is the solar greeting.



>still stuck in the left hand-right hand path false dichotomy

You're basically still a Christian, my man



The Buddha was asked how long a kalpa was, and he answered with a metaphor. He said a kalpa was the length of time for a stone, 16 miles on each side, to be worn away if touched with a cloth every 100 years. Another metaphor explains a kalpa as like a large empty cube 16-miles square. If you insert a tiny mustard seed every hundred years, the stone would be filled before the kalpa ends. It appears to mean an immense period of time. The period must serve to encompass all the ages of creation and dissolution of a world system.

Types of Kalpas

The lengths of a kalpa can vary greatly. A short kalpa would be somewhere in the range of 16.8 million years. A medium kalpa would be about 320 billion years. A long, or great, kalpa would be around 1,347 million years. 


"The highest one is ‘the heaven of neither perception nor non-perception’, and the lifespan of the beings in this heaven is 84,000 great kalpas in human years."


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any book thoroughly cover Amrita nectar and Kechari?




Tongue cutting.

That's some seriously crazy shit right there.

I'm a naturalist [or more just primal] though. I figure if I can't do it on my own then it isn't time.

I like the stories about Hindu ascetics though. Those who forsook all material stuff and focused purely on the interior worlds.

I think about them occasionally when contemplating remote viewing. I just assume they are in the audience.



no need to cut tongue if stretched





The distance is closer than it seems



That book tells you to cut, but I think talabya kriya and keeping your tongue stretched back when not eating or sleeping is best. The main things I take from the book are that you should first spit out the liquid that drips down until it becomes sweet and the various applications and benefits of the mudra



fear mongering



remember, all you're doing is seeking acceptance and permission from other imperfect human beings as if they are god. don't fool yourself, and don't allow others to fool you. ask not of the imperfect, ask of the perfect. ask God for permission and help.



can be further translated to

>ignorance of any kind - bad

>awareness - good



don't get trapped in the "HOW". this is a mental limitation. you can get stuck in the how, and get lost thinking "that way of "how" happening might not happen so "this" can't happen"

let go of limitation. just know it CAN happen. how does not matter. just do everything as right as you can. it WILL happen. there is no such thing as impossible with God.



leaving the demon alone is akin to accepting and worshipping your limitations, flaws, and imperfections. slaying the dragon, working through your problems and trying to be the best you can be is a good thing, you're trying to discard and eliminate all that is bad, wrong, imperfect, and trying to embrace and feed and nourish all that is good and perfect.

not slaying the demon is to allow it to continue and hurt yourself further and hurt others further. sure, in this false reality they may always be metaphorical demons around, and while slaying them wont do anything long term, we should still slay the metaphorical demons and become better versions of ourselves because it's a part of our spiritual growth and experience. basically like grinding wild hogs in WOW.



yea, there's a difference between bad ego and good ego.

you shouldn't win a race and say "OH YEA LOOK AT ME I'M BETTER THAN ALL OF YOU HAHAHAHAHA SUCK IT" but if you win a race you should feel at least a reasonable but peaceful and quiet level of pride and joy for your success.

if you did good you should feel good and know you did the right thing, but you shouldn't be an asshole about it.



>worships the kundalini serpent

>prana is everything in the "material world"/the matrix

>christ energy

>talking about the sun



>jesus and satan both called "the morning star"

why is everything so fucking satanic



heaven can only be God and what God allows one to experience as good.



The occult side mentions aimlessly switching paths, but this honestly has been plaguing me since I began studying esoteric knowledge. And frankly, a lot of that other shit applies.

But if you require initiation and a legit OG guru, I have no idea how to go about that. I'm a poor shut-in NEET. I just want to become better, faster, stronger and kvlt as fuck.

Now I must take into consideration all this information, and an left not knowing which way is up… or down, as the case may be.

Is occidental mysticism all trash to some here? Literally no idea where to go from here…


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>The penultimate layer in our analysis of the self is that of the transcendent Void (śūnya). The

Void, which is all-pervasive, is empty of all form and energy, absolutely still. It is, in a sense, Śiva

without Śakti, or rather with Her existing as unexpressed potentiality. This is the layer our awareness

occupies in the state of deep dreamless sleep. We can also access this layer while awake through

meditation. Most people don’t identify with this layer; but many meditators who have reached the

place of the transcendent and profoundly peaceful Void decide (upon emerging from it) that this is

their real nature, declaring, “I am the Void,” or, more commonly something like, “I am not of this

world; my true Self transcends all things.” Such people renounce all identification with the material

world, body, and mind, becoming transcendentalists. They can attain deep states of peace but often

cannot integrate these states into daily life, and thus they may fail to adequately take care of their body

and become unable to relate to others easily. They may even become escapist and turn away from the

beneficial work of engaging in relationships and improving the health of the ordinary mind and body.

This is not the Tantrik path; a Tāntrika renounces nothing and seeks tirelessly to realize the Divine on

all layers of being.


if the goal of a practice is simply to improve one’s sex life, then however spiritual-sounding it may be, it cannot be called Tantra. If, on the other hand, that goal is part of a practice in which it is consistently subordinated to the goal of complete spiritual freedom and awakening to the ultimate reality, then it can be called Tantra (if the other definitional requirements are also met)


THE KĀMA-SŪTRA has Nothing to do with Tantra. The Kāma-sūtra is part of a branch of literature called Kāma-śāstra, or the science of pleasure. Its overall goal is the maximization of sensual pleasure as a valid end in itself. By definition, it is not Tantrik, because in the Tantra, the goal of pleasure, when present, is always subordinated to the goal of final spiritual liberation, which does not figure into the Kāma-sūtra. Simply reading the original texts will immediately reveal that they belong to a completely different class of literature. Nor do any of the public erotic temple carvings seen in India (such as in Khajurāho) relate to Tantrik practice.


Only if you are interpreting that phrase very broadly indeed. If we survey the Śaiva Tantrik

literature as a whole, we will see that sex per se is virtually absent as a topic. There is one lineage

group, however, the Kaula, that teaches sensual practices and has what we might call a “sexualized”

view of the world, seeing the whole of reality as the harmonious and joyous pulsating union of

various sets of complementary opposites.

In the original Tantrik sources, we do find some techniques for working with sexual energy and

using it to activate kuṇḍalinī, but we find absolutely no physical techniques aimed at prolonging

orgasm and so on. While there is such a thing as a Tantrik sexual ritual in the Śaiva tradition, it was

taught in only one text out of many hundreds, and it is there called a secret and esoteric doctrine meant

for a very few. (It is taught much more prominently in Buddhist Tantra, however.) The Tantrik sexual

ritual was primarily a meditative exercise, not a pleasure-maximizing exercise. For more on the

difference between original Tantra and the American new-age “Tantric sex” workshops, see the

conclusion. Those workshops are about spiritualized sexuality (not necessarily a bad thing per se),

whereas original Tantra is about a sensual and embodied spirituality (and even then, only in the

Kaula schools). What original Tantra is all about will become clear as you continue reading.


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What constitutes a vira exactly, and how does one become a vira?



Perhaps I should have posted this question here >>124022

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