a8761a No.13610564 [View All]
Post your best artifacts and watch me debunk them! :) I've done this before and never lost.
To save some humiliation, lets lay down some ground rules and guidelines.
"dated paleographically" means someone DID do Hard Science(HS) dating of the materials and results, to put it mildly, didn't match, so the Curators have decided to keep results secret and not allow any more testing, due to projected loss in Tourist Revenue. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketef_Hinnom_scrolls
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priestly_Blessing
WTF does the artifact actually mean or say. My "paleo-Hebrew"(AKA not "Hebrew") and ancient Greek is a bit rusty, so we'll have to rely on other's translations. My Latin is a LITTLE better.
Very generic "yeah, you guys are blessed if you pray" type stuff that generically seems to exist in any and all cultures, alone without context, isn't really proof of an otherwise very specific and INTOLERANT(of other competing dogma) religion.
Even if (and its a big if) something, without other context, translates to "Israel", some other societies mere name of a region doesn't mean the society NOW using that name existed in any way. Location names seem to stick around. Witness the many feather Indian names of American States, rivers, etc.
Many people like to hang onto hard to spell and pronounce first and/or last names, but Jews are famously quick to adopt names of pre-existing host cultures.
The Cross is a pre-0AD common pagan symbol and among other things is one of the most basic engineering structures any culture creates out of two sticks, to hang shit off of to get it off the dirt, and more visible. Its also "X marks the spot" indicator that two of the same stroke means "I meant to do that" vs "I'm a careless slob". The "Crosses" on many pre-1000AD Roman coins are a better match for the new model sword with extended hand guards that could be used without a shield either double handed Great Sword or sword and dagger, and considered bad ass and macho. Note many are curved at the point, and its either one or two, never The Holy Trinity as on some many post 1000AD churches. Some say the two represent parents and its a late Roman adoption of Egyptian "life" symbol. But I guess we don't really know due to total lack of supporting context in the vast and detailed universe of known and vetted Roman artifacts. Chi Rho means "the anointed one" in Greek and was used as that abbreviation since 200+BC. It was on Roman coins after Roman emperors started to fancy themselves demi-gods. I don't think current generalissimo calling himself a living god is very Christian. lol
Probably the best claimed proof that Jews existed prior to 300AD is large candle-holder show on moment of a Roman victory in region, being carried off by Roman troops. However, in the Mel Gibson WW1 movie, an Egyptian street peddler is hawking a 5 candle version to Brit troops. Candles in a row that can be carried as a unit works for various lighting reasons. The 7 day week comes from lunar cycle which governs both land and water animal behavior and yes its 7 days as much as it is 28 or 14, as hunters and fisherman will tell you. It does "wrap" against daylight, so Egyptians (and no doubt others) used a 5 candle model with separate two other big and small. Plus, 5 candles is the Goldilocks size for using the turn-able "adjustable" candles in a row lighting feature.
____________________________
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3657ff No.13656877
Really, because I'm not seeing any cross(es), or any indication anyone is nailed or even bound to any non-existent crosses.
What I'm seeing is an adult man with two kids on either side in front of a building with three roofs/rooms, with palms/arms sorta spread causally and comfortably from the waist, possibly indicating a relationship between each of the three persons and the three rooms of the building. One on left has some crest in the roof area that is lacking on the right, and the kid on right is clearly bigger than the one on left.
My hot take would be this is a family portrait in front of the new house dad bought for his kids.
Also, no "crown of thorns" the middle adult man, and no claims Romans would crucify children, or entire families, and nothing in the Bible story of Jesus of any kids involved in his crucifixion, and the two thieves crucified on either side are barely a footnote in the story.
does early christian art make more important people much larger?
Yes, but that technique—called hieratic scale or hierarchy of scale—became much more common later in the Middle Ages and Byzantine art rather than the earliest Christian art.In hierarchy of scale, an artist draws or paints figures bigger or smaller based on their spiritual or social importance, not how close they are to the viewer.How It Works in Christian ArtThe Shift in Style: Early Christian art (from the 2nd to 4th centuries in Roman catacombs) borrowed heavily from naturalistic Roman classical art, where figures were usually proportioned realistically.Moving Toward Hieratic: As Christianity grew into the Byzantine and medieval eras, art shifted away from realistic space. It moved toward an otherworldly style where Christ, the Virgin Mary, or an emperor was painted vastly larger than the saints, crowds, or donors standing next to them.
https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-topics/crucifixion/jesus-and-the-cross/Scholars believe that the first surviving public image of Jesus’s crucifixion was on the fifth-century wooden doors of the Basilica of Santa Sabina, which is located on the Aventine Hill in Rome.2 Since it took approximately 400 years for Jesus’s crucifixion to become an acceptable public image, scholars have traditionally believed that this means the cross did not originally function as a symbol for Christians.3
That is what we call "mental gymnastics" or "retcon". We can't find any of what would be expected to be extensive evidence and examples, so that can only mean there was some major taboo, which we also have zero evidence of, much less a logical reason to believe, much much less even a "books from (supposedly) other books" reasonably old (like after 1000AD but prior to 1900AD) record of any edict or formal shift in dogma.
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3657ff No.13656878
>>13656877
also note Egyptian and later Medieval hierarchic scale art keeps the head to body ratio correct.
the head and body size ratio of the two kids would would be more in line with them being kids.
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3657ff No.13656881
https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-topics/crucifixion/a-tomb-in-jerusalem-reveals-the-history-of-crucifixion-and-roman-crucifixion-methods/
"The tombs were part of a huge Jewish cemetery of the Second Temple period…."
What, if anything, indicates they are "Jewish"?
They seem to have fairly generic decoration, but Jews will also tell us the reason there are no Jewish marked artifacts is, being a pious people, Jews didn't ordain their objects with decorations.
We see some 6 pedal designs, but clearly not any Star of David, which itself is a pretty basic design, and easier than the oblong pedals and circles. As a Tradesman I can tell you making two triangles of straight lines superimposed scratched into stone would be lot easier that well done matching oblongs and circles.
Calling this flower a "Star of Bethlehem" would be retcon.
A six-petaled flower—frequently known as the six-petal rosette, hexafoil, or daisy wheel—symbolizes protection, the creation of life, and harmony.
jewelleryartist.co.uk +1
Protection and Ward Against Evil
Historical folk charm: Throughout medieval and Renaissance Europe, people carved or painted the six-petal rosette onto ceiling beams, doorways, and
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3657ff No.13656882
>>13656881
PS-my question would be, of this "….huge Jewish cemetery of the Second Temple period….", how many tombs were found with artifacts clearly indicating some other culture and distinctly not Jewish.
IIRC the best Roman records indicate what might have been proto-Jews were only on one hill about 11% of the land of Judea when Roman's arrived. Unless this "….huge Jewish cemetery of the Second Temple period…." is a match to that 11% area I think we've got a problem.
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3657ff No.13656883
>>13656823
There is no single total for how many beheaded bodies have ever been found from ancient Rome. Instead, archaeologists keep uncovering them across the former empire, especially in Roman Britain where decapitation burials are relatively common.The Big PictureTotal across the empire: Unknown. Thousands of Roman-era graves are excavated every year, but comprehensive global tallies of decapitations do not exist.General rate: In Roman Britain, beheaded bodies usually make up about 2.5% to 6% of typical burial sites.The practice: Skulls are often placed next to the feet or between the legs. Experts debate whether this was a standard (if alternative) funeral rite or the result of judicial executions.Notable Mass DiscoveriesArchaeologists occasionally hit "hotspots" with unusually high concentrations of headless skeletons:Fleet Marston (Buckinghamshire, England): Around 40 beheaded skeletons were found here in early 2022 among a larger dig of 425 bodies.Great Whelnetham (Suffolk, England): About 40% of the 52 skeletons uncovered at this 4th-century cemetery (roughly 20 individuals) were decapitated.Knobb’s Farm / Somersham (Cambridgeshire, England): Researchers found 17 decapitated skeletons out of 52 burials (33% of the site), with evidence suggesting military or judicial executions.
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bf28e5 No.13656884
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3657ff No.13656905
Palestinians mentioned by Egypt and AND Hillites in world's oldest Peace Treaty.
"Israel" and Jews, not some much. This was 1259BC, a few hundred years after "Exodus" when Israel was supposedly in full bloom.
Like if Mexico and Canada made agreement about borders in 1910, and didn't mention the USA.
This MAJOR Peace Treaty is recorded and still exists in several places across literally at least TWO continents, and in several languages.
Compare and contrast the "humanity" and just plain grownup demeanor with today's Jewish infested US Govt, to say nothing of today's Jews ranting about the need to murder Palestinian children lest they grow up to become "terrorists" and do another prison riot.
https://stacitiesroper.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/egyptianhittite-peacetreaty.pdf
The Egyptian-Hittite peace treaty (the Treaty of Kadesh) is the oldest known surviving peace accord, signed around 1259 BCE by Pharaoh Ramesses II and Hittite King Hattusili III. Recent archaeological discoveries and statements by cultural officials have linked its message of refugee protection and peace to modern conflicts, including references to Palestinian safety.Core Details of the TreatyOrigins: Concluded roughly 15 years after the strategic draw at the Battle of Kadesh to end decades of conflict over control of the Levant (modern-day Syria, Lebanon, Israel, and Palestine).Languages & Translation: Originally drafted in Akkadian (the diplomatic lingua franca of the time), the Hittite version was sent on a silver tablet to Egypt, where it was translated into Egyptian hieroglyphs and carved onto the walls of the Ramesseum and the Temple of Karnak in Thebes.Discovery: Egyptian copies were documented in the 19th century by Jean-François Champollion. Hittite clay tablet copies were excavated starting in 1906 at the ancient Hittite capital of Hattusha (modern-day Turkey). A replica hangs at the United Nations headquarters.
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3657ff No.13656909
Retjenu (rṯnw; Reṯenu, Retenu), later known as Khor, was the Ancient Egyptian name for the wider Syrian region, where the Semitic-speaking Canaanites lived.
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3657ff No.13657121
https://search.brave.com/search?q=what+did+Roman+records+say+about+Masada%3F&source=desktop&conversation=099c133ad644879d8c70e7e0f372c5812614
"Roman records, specifically military inscriptions and tombstones, do not mention the Siege of Masada. While legionnaires frequently commemorated major campaigns like the Siege of Jerusalem on their gravestones, no such records exist for Masada, suggesting the Roman military viewed it as a minor, localized operation rather than a significant imperial victory.
This absence is cited by researchers to support the theory that the siege was much shorter than traditionally assumed, lasting only a few weeks rather than years. The lack of extensive artifacts from a long-term encampment further indicates that the Romans conducted a swift, precision strike to suppress the last rebel holdout and protect the lucrative balsam trade in nearby Ein Gedi, after which they departed quickly. "
So we know about details like "protect the lucrative balsam trade in nearby Ein Gedi" but not a single mention of the group and ethnicity of their enemy??? I've never heard of "balsam" in it original context, and I'm still not sure if they are talking about tree sap or vinegar.
Did "Masada" even ever happen, regardless of who the "bandits" were?
Supposedly the Jews found some Roman records but it rather mundane and nothing indicates any combat or siege before or after. I'm guessing it was first an Egyptian temple and lookout, then a Roman lookout.
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3657ff No.13657184
Interesting thread on 4Chan about Nick VS The Professor on where Jews came from.
Some of this I haven't specifically debunked, so check back in a bit.
https://boards.4chan.org/pol/thread/543356854/nick-modern-jews-are-same-jews-as-bible#bottom
Anonymous (ID: bwLeFLJx) 09/27/26(Sun)10:33:08 No.543376470▶>>543378441
>>543376023
>>543376023
## Part 1: The Linguistic Reality of Dr. Ian Young's Claims
Dr. Ian Young, a professor of Classical Hebrew, belongs to a school of thought called biblical minimalism, which tries to push the composition of the Bible as late into history as possible. For generations, the academic consensus has been that you can date books of the Bible by looking at the language. Books like Genesis or Samuel use Early Biblical Hebrew (EBH) from before the Babylonian exile (pre-586 BC). Books like Ezra, Nehemiah, or Chronicles use Late Biblical Hebrew (LBH), which features heavy Persian and Aramaic influences from after the exile.
Young argues that this whole system is wrong. He claims that:
* They Weren't Eras, They Were Styles: EBH and LBH were not two different chronological time periods. Instead, they were two competing styles or dialects of writing that co-existed at the exact same time.
* Textual Fluidity: Scribes in the Hellenistic period (3rd century BC and later) were constantly rewriting, adding to, and altering the minor linguistic details of these books.
* The Conclusion: Because scribes were changing the language well into the late Second Temple period, Young asserts that you cannot use the Hebrew language to prove a book is old. If a text looks like it was written in 800 BC, Young says a scribe in 250 BC could have just chosen to write in an archaic "antique" style, meaning the final form of the text we have was essentially fixed very late.
The overwhelming majority of biblical historians and historical linguists have heavily pushed back on Young's theories, viewing them as deeply flawed and counterintuitive.
## Part 2: Why Mainstream Scholars Reject the "Styles" Theory
The overwhelming majority of historical linguists have heavily pushed back on Young's theories. They argue his view is completely unsustainable for several major reasons:
* 1. Forging an Evolving Language is Nearly Impossible: Languages change organically over time in ways that are incredibly difficult to fake backwards. Early Biblical Hebrew tracks perfectly with Northwest Semitic inscriptions found on 9th-to-7th century BC pottery fragments and stone monuments dug out of the ground by archaeologists. A 3rd-century BC writer would have to perfectly mimic archaic grammar, syntax, and spelling while completely avoiding words from their own era—a feat of historical linguistics that simply did not exist in antiquity.
* 2. The Missing Words Smoking Gun: The most devastating argument against Young is the distribution of foreign loanwords. If the "Early" books of the Bible were actually edited or written in the 3rd century BC under the Greeks, they should accidentally include Persian or Greek loanwords. Yet, Persian loanwords appear only in the late books (like Esther, Daniel, and Ezra) and are completely absent from books like Genesis or Samuel. A 3rd-century forge-master would have to keep track of a massive philological blacklist perfectly across dozens of scrolls.
* 3. Dialect "Styles" Don't Work That Way: Linguists point out that languages do not maintain two vastly different grammatical structures as mere "literary choices" across centuries without one naturally overtaking the other or bleeding into it. The transition from EBH to LBH perfectly mirrors how natural languages evolve over generations due to geopolitical changes, migrations, and foreign empires.
## Part 3: Extra-Biblical Archaeological Proof (First Temple Period)
Dozens of extra-biblical Hebrew documents dug out of the ground by archaeologists completely prove Hebrew evolved chronologically over different eras, fundamentally debunking the "competing contemporary styles" theory. Leading historical linguists have used these physical, externally dated archaeological artifacts to prove that the differences between Early Biblical Hebrew (EBH) and Late Biblical Hebrew (LBH) are strictly tied to time periods, not literary preference.
These physical pieces of pottery with ink writing (ostraca), stone engravings, and official government administrative pieces found across the ancient Kingdoms of Israel and Judah show a clear chronological timeline:
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3657ff No.13657185
>>13657184
* The Khirbet Qeiyafa Ostracon (10th Century BC): An early ink inscription on pottery tracking closely with the era of King David.
* The Siloam Tunnel Inscription (Late 8th Century BC): A monumental inscription carved straight into stone in Jerusalem to mark the completion of Hezekiah's water tunnel.
* The Ketef Hinnom Silver Amulets (7th Century BC): Tiny, rolled-up silver sheets containing the oldest surviving scriptural text (the Priestly Blessing).
* The Arad and Lachish Letters (Early 6th Century BC): Military dispatches written right as the Babylonians were invading Judea.
Every single one of these physical documents uses the exact same archaic grammar, specific vocabulary, and unique vowel spelling systems found in Early Biblical Hebrew (EBH). They show absolutely zero traces of the late grammatical changes or Persian words that appear after the exile.
## Part 4: Post-Exilic Proof and the Final Conclusion
As the geopolitical reality shifted and the Jews returned from Babylon under the Persian Empire, the physical documents found by archaeologists from this later era change dramatically.
* The Elephantine Papyri & Samaria Papyri (5th–4th Century BC): Documents showing Jews interacting directly with the Persian administration.
Suddenly, the Hebrew found on everyday documents begins structurally absorbing Aramaic syntax and explicit Persian administrative loanwords. This is exactly where Late Biblical Hebrew (LBH) comes from.
If Ian Young's "style" argument were true, archaeology would find a chaotic mix: some 8th-century BC pottery would accidentally feature Persian loanwords, and some 3rd-century BC documents would be flawlessly ancient.
Instead, archaeology reveals a strict, predictable, one-way chronological progression. The language dug out of the dirt matches the timeline perfectly. A 3rd-century BC scribe could easily update spellings to make a text easier to read, but they could not fabricate a centuries-long, organically evolving linguistic ecosystem that aligns flawlessly with external archaeology.
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3657ff No.13657187
Anonymous (ID: PEFgtJWf) 09/27/26(Sun)11:26:33 No.543378887▶
File: 1790484577292310 (1).png (345 KB, 806x990)
The Iron Curtain Over America By John Beaty 1951
https://educate-yourself.org/cn/Iron.Curtain.Over.America.pdf
John Beaty was retired army intelligence and a college professor this book is filled with primary sources often Jewish sources not just some e-fag
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3657ff No.13657188
>>543374606
it's from Diodorus Siculus who uses Hecateus of Abdera(4th century BC) as source
https://el.wikisource.org/wiki/%CE%99%CF%83%CF%84%CE%BF%CF%81%CE%B9%CE%BA%CE%AE_%CE%92%CE%B9%CE%B2%CE%BB%CE%B9%CE%BF%CE%B8%CE%AE%CE%BA%CE%B7/%CE%91
>παρὰ μὲν γὰρ τοῖς Ἀριανοῖς Ζαθραύστην ἱστοροῦσι τὸν ἀγαθὸν δαίμονα προσποιήσασθαι τοὺς νόμους αὐτῷ διδόναι, παρὰ δὲ τοῖς ὀνομαζομένοις Γέταις τοῖς ἀπαθανατίζουσι Ζάλμοξιν ὡσαύτως τὴν κοινὴν Ἑστίαν, παρὰ δὲ τοῖς Ἰουδαίοις Μωυσῆν τὸν Ἰαὼ ἐπικαλούμενον θεόν
>Thus it is recorded that among the Arians Zathraustes claimed that the Good Spirit gave him his laws, among the people known as the Getae who represent themselves to be immortal Zalmoxis asserted the same of their common goddess Hestia, and among the Jews Moyses referred his laws to the god who is invoked as Iao.
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3657ff No.13657193
yeah, you gotta ask "but WTF do THEY consider "heal" to mean?
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3657ff No.13657196
Note object strapped to head of Carthaginian masks.
Its part of Jewish scripture that while its a sin to murder your own child, its acceptable to trade children with your neighbor so you can both sacrifice children to God.
AFAIK, there isn't even a claim that any Nazi ever mocked any POWs, arrestees or Kamp residents.
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bcc80a No.13657233
Reminder that this thread would be banned in a russian network.
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3657ff No.13657348
>>13657233
Officially/Criminally by Govt or just "culturally" by whichever mid-wits were running the servers?
How about Norway, China or Japan?
I've heard in spite of generally being Catholic and with a Jewess, Mexico is quite tolerant of critics of The Church and about 100yrs ago were hunting priests as part of the Revolution. Not sure how much of the Revolution was Jews.
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1c6d5d No.13657464
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3657ff No.13657586
new theory, Abrahamics are a debased form of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroastrianism
Zoros took over Egypt and surroundings in 520BC.
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3657ff No.13657588
>>13657586
"No, the Persian (Zoroastrian) conquest of Egypt—specifically Cambyses II's invasion and conquest of Egypt in 525 BCE—is not mentioned in the Old Testament."
According to "history" not only did the Persians make treaties for safe-passage and water through Arab lands, but the Persians chose GAZA for their pre-invasion staging headquarters.
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3657ff No.13657590
Jews are not explicitly mentioned as a distinct ethnic or religious group in surviving official state or administrative Roman records specifically concerning Cleopatra VII, but Roman-(((era historians and contemporary))) literary sources do record interactions between Cleopatra, the Romans, and Jewish figures.
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148ed8 No.13657655
>>13657590
which figures?
>>13657188
>>13657184
>Some of this I haven't specifically debunked, so check back in a bit.
I was in that thread and was excited to see a more thorough breakdown. then a bit intimidated by the length of this discussion going back 18 months. but was optimistic that there'd be a lot to sink my teeth into.
I'm about 20% through and you haven't laid out an argument yet. what gives?
>>13611342
video link is dead and no title was given.
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3657ff No.13657731
>>13657655
sorry about lack of title and dead link
>>13611342
https://cdn.bookey.app/files/pdf/book/en/march-of-the-titans.pdf
>haven't laid out an argument yet. what gives?
what's to argue?
I'm just pointing out it appears nothing Abrahamic even existed prior to 1000AD, and proposed a few thesis.
Mostly I'm just asking for to submit any artifacts that could disprove my thesis.
Yeah, I haven't got around to debunking the last batch I posted.
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3657ff No.13657772
https://www.thebyzantinelegacy.com/riha-hoard
donian_Eucharistic_https://www.academia.edu/56159105/Image_and_Chalcedoctrine_a_re_evaluation_of_the_Riha_paten_its_decoration_and_its_historical_context
That is a lot of "re-evaluation" and even more assumption, given we have no surviving records any of that Chalcedoctrine stuff ever happened that pre-date 1000AD.
What isn't an assumption is the text around the rim of the plate is nothing religious, and names some family members and their relations.
There are some fancy columns in the background and other distinctive structures that seem to mean something, but nothing linked to Jesus, "Trinty" or Holy Father/Son relation or any crosses, Roman, Sumerian or otherwise.
I'm not seeing any indication one of the "Jesus" is him as a human and the other is him as God, I'm seeing two guys, one passing out drink and the other passing out food.
AFAIK there no references to The Apostles being put in two groups of 6, or one group getting wine and the other bread, etc.
"Last Supper" is Jesus at a table with 6 on each side, but that is a "set" table, not one (or two) guys doling out sacraments. I also got several questions about the claimed stamps dating these to reigns of various Roman emperors, such as "does that date the manufacture, or the date the foundry shop was founded, like Kikkoman Soy Sauce, founded 1661?"
Don't know what the writing on the cup says, but no one is claiming is religious.
Fan is a fairly good match, appears to have human with 4 wings instead of 6.
A 2nd very similar plate in black&white of two guys and again 6+6, also with writing on edge, and quite a bit of ornamentation but nothing distinctly Christian. It has 28 "Moons" around the edge which matches the lunar cycle and could be Zodiac related, with the 12 lessor figures. Maybe the two groups, one getting drink and other food reference to splitting Zodiac into summer and winter solstices.
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3657ff No.13657773
>>13657772
better pic of right side of painting
Creation of Saint Sophia Cathedral began around 1017 – 1037.
Woops, plate only has 25 "moons".
Fan appears to have 16 or 17 pedals.
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3657ff No.13657775
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_Iconoclasm
Kinda reminds me of how Jews (and Muslims) will explain away the lack of Jewish or Islamic artifacts by claiming "being a pious people, we don't adorn our belongings (so we're going to call any low quality unmarked broken pottery "proof of Ancient Israel").
"The Papacy remained firmly in support of the use of religious images throughout the period, and…." OK, so where are all those from pre-1000AD?
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148ed8 No.13657777
do you mind if I interject as I go?
>>13611396
while this may be tempting, and simple to believe, I would hold off. I have a slightly more complicated theory.
1477, 1497, 1538
these are pretty good. I will add that Odin and Odysseus share a root. this has been somewhat obscured to where Al will tell you they are wildly different, but foh.
>>13611546
2033 will be here soon. careful what you wish for
>>13611690
hadnt considered that. had always heard the connections to Dionysus but the actual vine is interesting. especially since other parables are about being grafted and such.
>>13611845
that sounds as suspicious and convenient as the dead sea scrolls.
>>13612060
"trust the experts" we're still doing this?
>>13612152
>you indians
>is roma
>>13657731
I think the thesis is correct, but its so out-there that people will need convincing. I respect that you've taken a "change my mind" approach and are welcoming all comers.
If you don't mind I'll lay out my own understanding after I've made my way through.
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148ed8 No.13657778
>>13612312
780 AD minus 164 A.H.
is 616.
your calendar starts at our "number of the beast" date?
one of the theories I heard was that Arius (of the Arianism heresy) started Islam as a heretical sect when he was kicked out in 325 AD. he used a different calendar to make it out to be fulfilling prophecy and padded the date to what I thought was 666, but appears now to be 616 which still fits.
thanks for accidentally providing evidence and confirming that.
one of the earliest letters you guys cherish is of a prayer or a threat to respect Arius. (Muhammad’s letter to Heraclius)
which further confirms that particular theory and suggests that the entire chronology is suspect. just that you have your own dating system is enough to suggest that dating something isnt as simple or straightforward as midwits want to think.
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3657ff No.13657783
>>13612060
>Bro, every archeologist is wrong. I’m actually more knowledgeable and know better.
There are two "silos" in archeology and universities.
1) the traditional "books written from other books" and they produce a lot of books.
2) the Hard Science nerds that use test tubes, count layers of sediment, and what they publish only makes sense to their fellow scientists.
#1 controls Uni and Govt politics and hence funding and jobs, and the Goon Squads, and #2 knows it.
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3657ff No.13657784
>>13657772
OP here on other PC.
I'm focused on the supposed mint stamp related to the year of the emperor's reign because:
1)Its not shown anywhere online that I can find.
2)Since metal can't be dated even by problematic methods such as Carbon-14, the stamp is about the only way to claim these dates within about 1000yrs, give or take.
3)There is no provenance or chain of custody for these items. Not to sound overly suspicious, but its certainly possible the date stamps were applied shortly after re-discovery to increase the values.
This is starting to fit a fairly well framed pattern of:
1)Very "lonely" items.
2)Several layers of no provenance or chain of custody since found.
3)Key evidence that might prove the date at least somewhat scientifically is missing or has reasonable alternative explanations.
I gotta wonder how much other stuff might have been found of similar construction but with very different or "mixed" messages.
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3657ff No.13657787
>>13657778
>your own dating system is enough to suggest that dating something isnt as simple or straightforward as midwits want to think.
Chinese date "birth day" from 9 months BEFORE what we call "birth". Not sure of exact number of days.
IIRC some culture likes to include parent's wedding day, or maybe it was "when they first met" as one of your "start dates".
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3657ff No.13657788
"Classical Philosophy and Science Copies
Because original papyri from Greece and Rome rarely survived Europe's climate, the 10th century was the golden era of monastic "recopying". Many classical works only exist today because of 10th-century scribes:
The Twelve Caesars by Suetonius (c. 950 AD): The earliest surviving physical copy of this ancient Roman biographical history dates exactly to the mid-10th century.
History of the Peloponnesian War by Thucydides (c. 900 AD): The oldest surviving copy of Thucydides’ foundational historical work dates to this exact era, roughly 1,300 years after it was first composed.
Gallic Wars by Julius Caesar (c. 900 AD): The earliest complete physical copy of Caesar's firsthand account of his military campaigns dates to around 900 AD."
Sounds like a lot of "record copying" going on just prior to 1000AD.
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3657ff No.13657810
some pretty good info on date stamp system used and origin of artifacts
https://dergipark.org.tr/tr/download/article-file/2220510
pattern of the 5 stamps shown on yellowish gold or bronze but body of plates in question is silver colored. No full pic of underside of plate with location of stamps, yet. Maybe I'll give these guys a call or email them.
On one hand, this could be pretty convincing evidence Christianity existed prior to 1000AD, then again the official word is precious metals were stamped BEFORE they were decorated. It seems possible that a fairly plain silver plate would be stamped, kept at heirloom for 100s of years, then later decorated? Sure, re-working jewelry and other valuables is a cottage industry.
https://therajahpress.com/collections/treasured-re-imagined-re-worked-conversions
https://www.pinterest.com/keepingcurrent/vintage-jewelry-reworked/
Christians are well known for applying new Christian skin to existing items.
Not exactly sure what they mean by this….
https://www.academia.edu/56159105/Image_and_Chalcedonian_Eucharistic_doctrine_a_re_evaluation_of_the_Riha_paten_its_decoration_and_its_historical_context
Mango (eds.), Ecclesiastical silver plate in sixth-century Byzantium.Washington, DC , –
. – M. Mundell Mango, The purpose and places of Byzantine silver stamping, ibid., –
: – doubts an exclusive production of objects marked with the “imperial” series in
the capital and suggested that these stamps could have been applied in anyof the mints or the-
sauri of the Eastern prefecture. But apart from two objects with stamps referring to Antioch and
another one possibly related to Tarsos there are no secure indications to challenge an applica-
tion of “imperial” stamps predominantly in Constantinople.
All seems very murky, up until suddenly 1000AD.
"Since the Communion of the Apostles is not attested in the monumental dec-
oration of Byzantine churches before the tenth century and becomes standard in
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3657ff No.13657811
>>13657810
cont….
the sanctuary only from the eleventh century on,¹⁰² several scholars have argued
that there is no secure evidence for any monumental composition of the theme
in the early Byzantine period.¹⁰³ However, the ‘Coptic’ wall paintings in the sanc-
tuaries of churches in Bawit and Wadi Sarga depicting the Communion of the
Apostles were until recently not included in this assessment. Although their dat-
ing to the seventh or eighth century is insecure, they are quite probably earlier
than the earliest Byzantine examples.¹⁰⁴"
Given the oddness of the two plates with two "Jesus" side by side, and the lack of any text about anything Christian, just lots of text about family names and relations, maybe it is about something else, later adopted into Christianity like Christmas and Easter.
Earlier in this thread I opined that late Western Roman coins would have one or two crosses that seemed a better match for the new model sword with big hand guards, wielded either as a big two hander or sword and dagger (never 3 crosses for 'trinity' as on many churches today). But claim is the dual Jesus was only an Eastern concept.
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3657ff No.13658062
>>13657810
note that, suddenly, in 1050-1190, we have unmistakably "Jesus on The Cross".
Be nice if these somewhat long winded scholars would include a translation of the text on the rim of the plate. Pre-1000AD examples named nuclear family members and relations, nothing religious.
https://www.academia.edu/1075978/Z_MURAT_Leather_manufacturing_and_circulating_models_in_the_Middle_Ages_from_a_Byzantine_patena_in_Halberstadt_to_a_Veneto_Cretan_Icon_in_Ljubljana_Zbornik_67_2011_pp_75_97
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3657ff No.13658063
https://barakatgallery.eu/artworks/categories/185/74860-byzantine-tetragrammatic-cross-depicting-jesus-christ-ad-400-ad-900/
This might be really from 400-900AD, because it is so vague and generic.
"With this sign you will conquer". Its clearly not someone on a cross but a more "conversational" comportment, and people have been putting value on "signs" and their relation to victory since forever. And its a stylized what I call a Sumerian Cross, also as old as time.
https://barakatgallery.eu/about/fayez-barakat/
An old Palestinian farming family…"…..The modern company was founded with the opening of its first major gallery in Jerusalem in the 1950s".
So Israelis are going to a let Palestinian have control of artifacts from the Holy Lands in Jerusalem in the 1950s? And make money buying and selling them? I'd have to check into that.
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3657ff No.13658267
>>13657810
My issue with claiming these are two Jesuses (Jesui?) is that there is zero surviving confirming text such a MAJOR new idea every existed at the time. Like everything else it seems to be now retconned. There is no even simple "Jesus exists both physically and divinely at the same time". I don't see anything indicating which one might be which.
On the other hand the "duality of man" concept did exist in several cultures.
Yeah, I know at least 99% of this stuff also comes from "books from other books" with very little if any surviving from before 1000AD.
AI Overview
The concept of the "duality of man"—the split between the material body and the immaterial soul—originates deeply in ancient Greek philosophy and mystical traditions like Orphism and Pythagoreanism starting around the 6th century BCE.
Origins in Ancient Greece
• Orphism and Mystery Schools: Emerging in the 6th century BCE, the Orphic tradition introduced the idea of sōma-sēma (the body as a tomb or prison). They taught that the divine soul is trapped inside a mortal, material body.
• Pythagoreanism: Early Greek thinker Pythagoras and his followers broke away from older Homeric views (which saw the soul as a mere shadow). They argued that the soul is an immortal, divine entity temporarily residing in the physical flesh.
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89c039 No.13658302
The Ahriman or Aryaman figurine points to the "trapping" of the soul in a material body. However, there is no actual trap, it is a little hard to explain how it works. The soul is actually a home, your ego lives inside this home, and the physical body is a interface with the material black cube, it feeds information from it into a algorithmic cube which is external to it. You have two icosaedrons, one inside the other, and inside each there is a cube, the smaller cube is the black cube, and the bigger one is the grey cube which stores information. The serpent around your body is the serpent of the kundalini, or caduceus, but unless you have a causal body to store it, you will keep returning due to debt, having your ego absorbed by the white light from the inner icosaedron and the information by the outer. This is the same light from the stars, the white light on the end of the tunnel in nde is the light of the sun. In the fourth spatial dimension the cores of the stars are actual holes in a black membrane. Hence why initiation was important, because it creates a causal body, and when this body matures, the serpent is awakened, the information is then stored inside the causal body and not wasted by the light. The Ahriman figurine shows this process coming into being, as the lion head represents the heart, the circulatory system, which is associated with the first aspect of the anima (the inner shakti), the second aspect being the nervous system and the third and fourth aspects the respiratory system. Ahriman is called a demon because the controllers dont want people to hold this information and this could free too many slaves. But as per solipsism, the cube can be collapsed and chained inside a new structure, as a relic from your past life.
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344a47 No.13658303
>>13658302
So, tl;dr, the ancient Egyptians got it right?
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1951c0 No.13658311
THE FOLLOWING 40 FACTS PROVE THAT ALL OF DONALD TRUMP'S POLITICAL ACTIONS DURING HIS SECOND PRESIDENCY ARE PSYCHOLOGICAL OPERATIONS DIRECTED BY FREEMASONS EMBEDDED WITHIN THE C.I.A. AND D.O.D.
https://psy000.info/magic/#career
- Freemasonry was founded in the year 1717.
- "Q" is the 17th letter of the English alphabet.
- The letter "Q" is spelled 'C/K-U' or 'C/K-U-E' or 'C/K-Y-U' or 'C/K-E-W' or 'C/K-O-O' or 'C/K-Y-O-O'.
- The name of the "Board of Peace" contains an anagram of the letter "Q" ('C-O-O').
- The name of the "United Nations Security Council Resolution 2803" contains three anagrams of the letter "Q" ('C-U-E' + 'CO-O' + 'C-U-E').
- The name of the "National Committee for the Administration of Gaza" contains two anagrams of the letter "Q" ('CO-O' + 'C-O-O').
- The name of the "East Wing Modernization Project" contains an anagram of the letter "Q" ('C-O-O').
- The name of the "U.S. Commission of Fine Arts" contains an anagram of the letter "Q" ('CO-O').
- The name of the "National Capital Planning Commission" contains two anagrams of the letter "Q" ('C-O-O' + 'CO-O').
- The name of the "Harmonized Tariff Schedule of the United States" contains an anagram of the letter "Q" ('C-U-E').
- The name of the "U.S. International Trade Commission" contains an anagram of the letter "Q" ('C-O-O').
- "ICE" is an acronym for "Immigration and Customs Enforcement", which contains an anagram of the letter "Q" ('CU-E').
- ICE officers are employed by the "U.S. Department of Homeland Security", which name contains an anagram of the letter "Q" ('CU-E').
- The name of the "Insurrection Act" contains an anagram of the letter "Q" ('C-U-E').
- The name of the "Posse Comitatus Act" contains an anagram of the letter "Q" ('C-U-E').
- The name of the "John F. Kennedy Memorial Center for the Performing Arts" contains two anagrams of the letter "Q" ('K-O-O' + 'C-O-O').
- The name of “Lake Ontario” contains an anagram of the letter "Q" ('K-O-O').
- The name of the "Lincoln Memorial" contains an anagram of the letter "Q" ('CO-O').
- The name of the "Reflecting Pool" contains an anagram of the letter "Q" ('C-OO').
- The name of the "Monroe Doctrine" contains an anagram of the letter "Q" ('C-O-O').
- The name of "spheres of influence" contains an anagram of the letter "Q" ('C-U-E').
- "NATO" is an acronym for "North Atlantic Treaty Organization", which contains an anagram of the letter "Q" ('C-Y-O-O').
- The name of the "Ultimate Fighting Championship" contains an anagram of the letter "Q" ('C-U-E').
-----------------------------------------------
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1951c0 No.13658312
>>13658311
- Argentina's official name is the "República Argentina", which contains an anagram of the letter "Q" ('C-U-E').
- Canada's official name is the "Dominion of Canada", which contains an anagram of the letter "Q" ('C-O-O').
- China's official name is the "People's Republic of China", which contains an anagram of the letter "Q" ('C-U-E').
- Cuba's official name is the "República de Cuba", which contains two anagrams of the letter "Q" ('C-U-E' + 'CU-E').
- Raúl Castro's name contains an anagram of the letter "Q" ('C-U').
- Marco Rubio's name contains two anagrams of the letter "Q" ('CO-O' + 'C-U').
- Greenland's name in the Inuit language is "Kalaallit Nunaat", which contains an anagram of the letter "Q" ('K-U').
- Greenland is owned by the "Kingdom of Denmark", which name contains an anagram of the letter "Q" ('K-O-O').
- Iran's official name is the "Islamic Republic of Iran", which contains an anagram of the letter "Q" ('C-U-E').
- The name "Operation Epic Fury" contains three anagrams of the letter "Q" ('C-O-O' + 'C-U-E' + 'C-Y-U').
- The words "nuclear weapon" contains an anagram of the letter "Q" ('C-U-E').
- Mexico's official name is "Estados Unidos Mexicanos", which contains an anagram of the letter "Q" ('C-U-E').
- The name "Gulf of Mexico" contains an anagram of the letter "Q" ('C-U-E').
- The name "Gulf of America" contains an anagram of the letter "Q" ('C-U-E').
- Qatar's official name is the "State of Qatar", which contains the letter "Q".
- The name of "Air Force One" contains an anagram of the letter "Q" ('C-O-O').
- Venezuela's official name is the "Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela", which contains two anagrams of the letter "Q" ('C-U-E' + 'C-UE').
- Nicolas Maduro's name contains an anagram of the letter "Q" ('C-U').
- Delcy Rodriguez's name contains two anagrams of the letter "Q" ('CY-U' + 'C-UE').
- The name "Narco-Terrorism" contains an anagram of the letter "Q" ('CO-O').
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1951c0 No.13658315
The U.S. Navy (earthquakes) and U.S. Air Force (high temperatures) commemorated the founding date of Freemasonry (June 24th) with earthquakes on THREE different continents and record high temperatures on a FOURTH continent.
https://psy000.info/climatic/
https://psy000.info/magic/#june24
Several Strong Quakes Hit Across the World in 24 Hours
https://www.nytimes.com/2026/06/25/world/americas/venezuela-earthquake-japan-california.html
Experts said the powerful earthquakes that struck California and Japan are likely not connected to the devastating tremors in Venezuela.
Western Europe, Sweltering Under Record Heat, Braces for More
https://www.nytimes.com/2026/06/24/weather/europe-extreme-heat-wave-warning.html
More than a dozen countries have issued urgent heat warnings. France saw its highest average temperature ever on Tuesday.
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f5a9d4 No.13658331
>>13612149
>The reason USA is great and Latin America sucks bad is our Constitution has a two body legislature (House and Senate), and they just have one chamber.
Brazil and Argentina have two chambers. I dont know about the others.
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3657ff No.13658437
>>13658331
My Biz Law prof said the reason USA is so great (and all of Latin America is a shit-hole) is that we have two chambers and they all have single chambers.
She didn't explain further. She was flat wrong on just about everything I had real knowledge about.
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3657ff No.13658438
>>13658302
>So, tl;dr, the ancient Egyptians got it right?
Not sure, but seems like the 32 Commandments missing from the Jew's 10 are directed against stereo-typically Jewish misbehavior.
>>13657586
>new theory, Abrahamics are a debased form of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroastrianism
Abrahamics don't seem to add anything spiritual to Zoros, they only take Zoro ideas and try to make them a Jew's exclusive brand, and add some obvious lies about magical events to try to force "credibility".
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9b0440 No.13658472
jesus was asked about abraham
he said
>before abraham, there was i am
so calling christians abrahamics is just seethe
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dbf02d No.13658488
>>13658472
>this jewish rabbi said he existed before his ancestors
>therefore you're coping
Leave it to christkikes to take what a jew says at face value.
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9b0440 No.13658497
>>13658488
if someone brought themselves back from the dead that would not be taking them at face value
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dbf02d No.13658502
>>13658497
>no goy you don't understand a bunch of jews said their rabbi came back from the dead and is gonna do it again, and the jews would never lie
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3657ff No.13658511
>>13658488
>>13658472
>>13658497
Jews made up the Jesus story starting with "….1000 yrs ago!!!…." because if you start going around telling the locals YOU have the power to bring people from the dead they might just have you prove it, on yourself.
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