/tg/ - Traditional Games

>>213400

You talking about Torment or Planescape in general?

Because yes, there are inns and taverns in Sigil. You gain access to one once you hit the Clerk's ward.

>>213404

Planescape in general.

It feels like coming up with a campaign that only has one city is a bit difficult.

im in the process of downloading the books from monkey mansion as I type

>>213405

Okay, let me try.

Planescape is set on the Outer Planes - so Hell, Heaven, Nirvana and Valhalla are all places you and your party can visit. Of course, since we're talking about different planes of existence here, traveling between them can be a bitch. This is where Sigil comes in: the city in the center of the multiverse, the place where you can find a portal to anywhere and anytime. This makes Sigil a hotbed of politics, trade, and adventuring. You need a rare spell that can only be obtained by trading with devils? You can find it here. You need a sword blessed in the waters of the River Oceanos? You can find it here. Need to hire viking mercenaries to fight off giants? Yep, right there.

Because you can go anywhere in the known multiverse from it, and because you can find anything in it, everyone wants to take Sigil over. From demons to angels, everyone wants to rule over the City of Doors. However, the only thing preventing them from actually doing that is the Lady of Pain - a mysterious thing that floats around the city, rearranges it at will, and kills Gods without breaking a sweat. Because the LoP is constantly floating around, the demons, angels and other critters have to work in the shadows and manipulate politics and mortals into doing their bidding and gain more power.

So how does anyone in the multiverse gain more power? By making other people believe what they believe. The Outer Planes are defined by belief - so if enough people believe something, their belief will make that thing real. If enough people believe that Heaven is stronger than Hell, it will become stronger. If enough people believe that the sky is red, it will eventually turn red. And this is where the Factions came in.

The Factions are part political organizations, part philosopher clubs. Each has an unique system of beliefs that they adhere to - one group believes that everyone has the potential to become a God, others believe that the multiverse is doomed and that there really is no point in being a jerkass if everyone's fucked already, still others believe that the multiverse should be ruled by a Lawful and Firm hand and would make Judge Dredd look like a pansy by comparison. Of course, since in Planescape belief equals power, all these factions try to get more members, or convert more people from other factions to their system of belief, or just fight it out in the streets.

Your players are expected to be members of some Faction. And they don't have to belong to the same faction - so this means that your players will have to think about why their Faction would send them on this mission (or let them join), or how they'll interact with members of the other Faction, or will they work together or eventually try to backstab each other over who gets the prize in the end. Of course, it can also happen that they're best of friends who simply don't agree on how the multiverse works, but whatever. So there's plenty of potential for some good roleplay there.

And that's not even getting into the Blood War and the other Planar clusterfucks going on. Each of the 17 Outer Planes is ripe with conflict and political shenanigans, which your players can get involved in. Smuggling weapons for demons? Spying on some devils on behalf of other devils? Blackmailing angels? Slaying eldritch dragons that nest in the root of Yggdrasil? There's ton of stuff going on out there, and your players can get involved with all of it.

>>213409

If this was a game you'd be the winner

>>213405

There are plenty of cities. There are entire economies and ecologies going on across the planes, and tons of locations, many of which aren't all that hostile. There are cities, nations, kingdoms, etc just about everywhere.

So for example, the Plane of Fire … sure it's a infinite plane made out of fire, but it's also the home of all of the fire elemental beings that come from there, and they're not just waiting around to be summoned or put in encounters. They have their own societies and civilizations. The Efreeti Empire has a capital city (the City of Brass), that can be run with most of the same potential concerns that you would address in a normal city in a normal setting, complete with politics, agriculture, economics, trade, foreign policy, etc … It just happens to be ruled by Efreeti and floating on a sea of magma.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_Brass_%28Dungeons_%26_Dragons%29

There are cities in heaven and hell (or heavens and hells) your PCs can visit, and everywhere in between. In the Outlands there are the gate towns. These are very much like normal "D&D" settlements, but also each is slightly toned after the planes that they link to, and make a pretty good compromise to get a feel for those planes without being overwhelmingly different.

Even "empty" places like the Astral and the Ethereal have native societies and locations. Well, sort of.

In addition, all over you will find settlements and groups that still have the flavor of whatever prime material setting they migrated from. So over here you might have an enclave of Qualinesti from Dragonlance or a longhouse of Northmen from Faerun or a temple of Pholtus straight out of the Theocracy of the Pale. There's really no limit, and the setting is built to accommodate all of these things, and put them together in ways that actually make sense.

Sigil is huge, and awesome, and detailed, and full of fun. Sigil can be the basis for an entire campaign, but it is far from the only city or civilization.

Op, >>213409 is a champ.

But seriously, if you are downloading the books, read the modron march after you are done with the main book.

It's an adventure that spawns decades, goes all over the multiverse and has an epic ending. It can give your party plenty of time to fuck around in sigil, get industrious, make a name for themselves during the interval where they need to intervene with the events of the march.

>>213400

>An example: in any other RPG you can occasionally let the party rest and regroup at an inn or a tavern.

>Are there even inns and taverns in Planescape? Or is it too busy looking like one of Lewis Carrol's nightmares?

The Outer Planes Tourism guide, or "So you want to set up kip and get some shuteye":

- Arcadia likely has very strict guidelines for inns, given that the local alignment is Lawful Anal. Day and night follow each other without dawn and dusk: one moment it's bright as noon, the next it's the middle of the night. If you're not Lawful, expect to be stopped frequently by local Paladins to question your alignment and business. Stay on the road as well: if you're not on them you'll immediately be suspected of being a brigand of sorts because why else leave the road?

- Mount Celestia has no day/night cycle. The first layer, Lunia, has a pleasant twilight going on that's good to sleep in, and there are places one can go to if you're less than Lawful Good without being harassed by the locals. Other layers have some nice cities where a basher can get healed and rearmed, and the place is generally safe to set up a tent in. Be wary of doing this on the fourth layer however: it is filled with nudists and you don't want to see shriveled old man dick before breakfast.

- Bytopia is generally safe, though there's a chance that you have to work for your meal and bed instead of pay for it. It's how they roll there. Camping on the first layer is safe, but on the second layer less so, and you might not find shelter amongst the peoples of Shurrock.

- Elysium is generally safe, but don't stay there too long: it's so happy and joyful and good it'll brainwash you. You'll be more likely to be helped out by a friendly local than having to pay for your kip though. The first two and four layers are good, but the third layer is a massive swamp filled with… things. Don't camp here.

- The Beastlands have little in flavor of inns and stuff. Camping is dangerous: the day does not pass so you're always in noon, dusk/dawn or midnight. Be wary of the locals who'd make a meal out of you like a pack of lions, a bear with levels in Cleric or a max hit die celestial firebreathing T.rex.

- Arborea has the elves who are pretty good sports about having people over. Be wary though that they like to party hard, so don't expect a lot of sleep. There's a place there called the The Gilded Hall, which is filled with revelries, sensations, festivities and other fun things to do. So if you wanna do hookers and blow for the rest of your life, this is the place. It's also a prison for Sensates, where the ones who only have pleasant experiences instead of all experiences the Multiverse has to offer. The second plane is entirely water and the third entirely sand, so they aren't a lot of fun.

- Ysgard ain't half bad if you're into the viking life. They like fighting during the day and partying during the night. If they die they rise the next morning. Note that only they do that: if you get put into the dead-book while here you'll stay there, berk. The locals have trouble figuring this out, so be wary and don't start any fights you can't win. Which is most of them here to be honest.

- Limbo is not a pleasant place. If you want to set up your tent you'll have to assemble some of the raw matter floating about and keep it focussed while you sleep. You could try ask the local Githzerai for a place to sleep, but they aren't awfully keen on visitors. And don't ask the Slaad for help: they'll fuck you up.

>>213575

- Pandemonium carries a big disclaimer: bring earplugs or the winds drive you mad. And mind the gravity: it's aiming at whatever's currently "down" for you. When there the Madhouse isn't that bad for a Chaotic plane with Evil tendencies, but take precautions so you don't wake up with a Balor dancing through your room.

- The Abyss is simple: all the layers carry some degree of NOPE. The plane is hostile, the locals even more so and the few relatively safe places (Graz'zt's city, Malcanthet's realm, Demogorgon's city) will still get you very dead very quick if you're not extremely well prepared. Just stay away from this place.

- Carceri is a magic place: You can check in any time you want, but you'll never leave. Ever read the Inferno part of the Divine Comedy? Well, that's what Carceri is like. Acid snow, corrosive water, sand that can flay a berk's flesh right off of his bones: not a nice play to spend the night.

- The Gray Waste is dull, dull, dull. So dull that if you stay there you'll lose all your color and the ability to give a shit, making you stay there forever. Also the primary battleground of the devils and demons. The only safe places are Khin-Oin (if you're a Yugoloth, but even then), various divine realms (if you're a petitioner) and the town called Death of Innocense (a good place to stay if you don't mind the walls made of people constantly weeping blood).

- Gehenna is mainly volcanoes. Some of them are active, others covered in acidic snow. Don't sleep here. The main cities are either for fiends or in the hands of malevolent powers. There's Nimicri though: a small floating moon that's clean, safe and a nice place to do business. Almost everyone here accidentally cuts themselves and drips blood on the ground, creating a perfect copy of them that stays on Nimicri. Oh, and sometimes the moon eats people. Fun times.

- Baator is the home of the devils. Don't trust devils. Don't sleep here, not even when dealing with the most powerful Archdevils. Sure, their deals for safety might look waterproof, but it takes only a couple of misinterpreted words and you're turned into a Lemur. And I'm not talking about the monkey.

- Acheron is filled with war and noise. If the cube you're on looks safe, don't stay there too long: either an army will show up and you'll get killed/enslaved, or the floating cubes smash into one another and you get flattened. The lower you go the finer the cubes become, until you're on the last layer and you get submitted to vorpal bukkake.

- Mechanus is filled with gears housing every conceivable environment, in some strange pattern that's perfectly logical somehow. Camping here is relatively safe, but be wary of patrols of the locals who are more than willing to kill you if you break a law you didn't know was there.

So in short, in many cases you'd be better served to go back to Sigil and set up kip there if you want to sleep. Most of the planes aren't safe.

>>213484

I think OP was having more trouble coming up with ideas of what to do in a game set inside Sigil.

>>213409

Are there any cities and inns in the far realms?

>>213604

Unless you want to go visit places like R'lyeh there are not cities in the Far Realm. There is nothing there but endless horrors.

The Far Realm itself does not even exist in Planescape.

>>213579

From what I see, it's up to its ears in politics, backstabbing, and villainy.

Shouldn't be that hard to pick one and roll with it.

>>213405

>Planescape in general.

Since ALL the worlds of Prime are supposedly linked to Sigil, the amount of potentially accessible inns and taverns is near-infinite. ;)

Seriously, though - if they know a portal to some place with decent food, it's probably better for peaceful eating and sleeping than Sigil. Unless your tiefling insists on being undisguised during rest, of course.

sure, the Clueless don't make food and drinks like in Elysium, but you still have good meal for your jink, no Hardheads, no fiends, probably few nosy magic-users, and almost certainly better air.

Loved the setting. Bought dam near all the books and box sets back when it came out for 2ed. Still have 'em. There are lots of cities and towns besides Sigil. The Outlands is ringed with gate towns, each one with a portal to one of the other outer planes. And there's at least one place where a traveler can rest and buy supplies in nearly every plane, except maybe the Abyss. But even there, the first layer has cities, although getting into them and not becoming something's slave or food can be tricky.

There are also the occasional real of a friendly or neutral power. Many of them have places that will do business with outsiders. The factions keep bases and such through-out the planes. Some of them are open to visitors for a fee, like the palace of the Believers of the Source on the eathrel plane.

>>213604

From what I remember, the Far Realm was only mentioned in some AD&D module for the first time. Then it got incorporated into Eberron's Realm of Madness, Xoriat. It would later on be mentioned again in 3e, and it would finally get a proper introduction in 4e. So as >>213627 said, it's not even a thing in 2e Planescape, and even when it's mentioned it's not part of the Cosmology, but this thing that's outside time and space.

But if you want to include it, fuck it, why not. Go wild. Sigil can link to anyplace, anytime. That includes other campaign settings, such as Eberron or Ravenloft. Athas is kinda impossible, but it also happened.

As for the cities and inns in the Far Realm, that's kinda hard to do. The plane doesn't operate on mortal logic, so even if there was a city standing (maybe even literally) in front of you, you'd never realize that it's a city. Or the inn would appear as a giant worm made from light and corpses.

Though there is one plane-hopping inn that's canon. The World Serpent Inn. It can shift planes, so maybe it can end up in the Far Realm occasionally. Then you could make the case that there is something like an inn in the Far Realm…

>>213754

Oh yeah, and if you want to remain in the confines of the Great Wheel cosmology (so the Far Realm isn't included as an independent plane) you can always go wild with the Astral and Ethereal planes. Or some weird Lovecraftian demiplane.

Example, Tharizdun's prison is a demiplane described as a giant purple crystal flying through space at ridiculous speeds. The crystal looks like it's constantly growing in weird, fractal patterns. The crystals themselves seem to be lit from the inside. And if you look into a crystal (which would be impossible not to, since the whole place is crystal), you'll see your own death in gruesome detail, or something equally maddening. And then you turn into an aberration.

>>213754

You're right. Planescape was introduced in 1994 and the Far Realm was introduced in 1996.

I just assumed that the Far Realm was a catch all for any place that didn't fit in the cosmology of the great wheel well such as the Dimension of Time or the Plane of Dreams and various other weird planes. I guess what I'm saying is that in my style of thinking then it'd be the "Far Realms" and not the "Far Realm." So, I was really asking about all the uncommon and strange places and not just the "Far Realm" location accessible from Firestorm Peaks.

>>213838

Nah, it's cool. My bad, I thought you meant the Far Realm (the 4e thing) specifically. Sorry.

If you go with all the strange planes, then yeah, there's probably a couple inns out there. Many of the demiplanes were created by incredibly powerful wizards, psions or deities, so it's to be expected that they'll have something where their visitors can stay for a while. The githyanki cities in the Astral also have their inns, built out of dead gods. I think Dis (the capitol city of the 2nd Circle of Hell, not the archduke) has an entire quarter devoted to inns. It also has an entire street that's filled with nothing but small temples to various evil deities who're not strong enough to forge their own realm, so they stay there and pay him rent, so you know, shit's weird. For all we know, there might be some plane made entirely of inns and hotels.

Shit, I hate that 8archives is kaput.

There was lot of interesting maps, and plot speculations for lower realms.

>>213871

in the previous threads I mean

Or would you rather set up camp in the Outlands themselves? You could do that, but given that it's filled with raides, monsters, scouting parties for the Blood War and all other kinds of nasties you'd better set up kip someplace safe. In the lands themselves there are a number of fortified fillages, strongholds of the Indeps and divine realms where one could be safe for the night, but not all might be friendly. So visiting one of the gate-towns might be a good idea, but not all are nice places to stay:

- Fortitude will bring you to Arcadia. It's a pretty place with parks, orchards and groves all over the area and its buildings are simple. The main attraction is the Confessional, where locals come to confess their sins and are punished appropriately. Sometimes people suspected of wrongdoings are dragged in and forced to confess, which is made easier because the people there can cast Know Alignment at will and Charm Person 1/day. So if you're a peeler, stay away.

- Excelsior is inhabited by a bunch of pleasent, kind and friendly people that'd drive a non-Lawful Good person to madness. It's paved with glowing yellow bricks that look like shining gold. It's got towers all over the place, and climbing the highest one will dump you into the Silver Sea of Mount Celestia. Despite its alignment the place's got its own thieves guild, which exclusively targets non-LG visitors. This does not sit well with various paladin lords whose floating citadels form the city's floating perimiter.

- Tradegate is a city of commerce and industry. Nothing's free here: even if you want basic information you gotta pay for it. You can buy pretty much anything here as long as it's non-evil, and the chant is you can even sell your chance at an afterlife for a pile of cold hard jink. Notable is that the gate to Bytopia is actually a person: a bariaur called Master Trader. If you want to go to Bytopia you gotta barter with him; while his prices are NOT cheap it'll always be within your range to pay.

- Ecstasy is not a bad place. While the locals might have some funny ideas regarding personal property and grab your stuff for closer inspection if it strikes their fancy, they won't steal from you. In fact, with a silver tongue you can talk your way out of minor messes that might as well get you put in the dead-book in the other gate-towns. The place is filled with monoliths with people sitting on them, contemplating the multiverse. One particular ivory monolith has a pool of quicksilver on top: jump in and you end up in Elysium. While here you can visit the Philosopher's Court and debate whatever you want, but don't expect to win. It also houses Revelhome, a magnificent festhall where you can get eat, drink, experience dalliances and romance and generally have a good time.

- Faunel has a rather unusual population: while one-third is the regular bunch of bashes you'd expect in a neutral good-chaotic burg, the other two-thirds of the population are talking animals. The city itself seems to be ruined and covered in moss and vines, but if you look closer you'll discover the tents of the humanoid inhabitants. It also houses the headquarters of the Signers. The gate to the Beastlands is guarded by Wrath, a stone statue that questions all that wish to enter the gate. Answer him truthfully and if you got a good reason to pass, he won't beat you into a pulp.

- Sylvania is a place of excitement, reveling and partying non-stop. The burg itself looks like utter madness: no two builds look alike with a massive mix of materials, designs and styles all next to one another. Some have spinning cogs, waterwheels without water or even move on their own. It's here where you go to party hard, experience excess, visit the Sensate embassy if you're so inclined and watch the followers of the Greek and Elven pantheons beat the shit out of one another. Getting to Arborea involves walking into the nearby forest, getting lost and trying to find your way out.

- Glorium is surrounded on all sides by mountains, so unless you can fly it'd be best to enter by ship. It's pretty much a viking village set up for the winter, and the life there is pretty rough. The people of this burg are loud, moody, easy to offend and alwasy ready for a fight. This puts them at odds with a nearby bariaur community. Given the lack of inns and such places makes for a rather uninviting place to stay, but if you prove yourself to the locals you'll have friends for life. The gateto Ysgard is pretty large and appears on the water: it's big enough to sail a longship into with ease.

>>213873

- Xaos (pronounced kay-os) is constantly changing: just because you've seen it one way doesn't mean the next visitor will see it like you did. That's what you get for being so close to the plane of ultimate chaos. The population varies greatly in size: it can go from 5 to 40.000 in a very short time span. The appearance of Xaos (pronounced ksa-os) can change even faster: going from small houses to pyramids to flats to tents and pits faster than you can manage. The area surrounding Xaos (prononced soaks) has fields, holes, mountains, forests and rivers changing constantly under the stress of the nearby plane. Having a powerful force of will when entering Xaos (pronounced ay-os) is required: if you fail you might as well go mad yourself. The town has no leaders, no government, no laws and no consistency. You might be a skillful sellsword one moment and a waiter the next. The only thing all people here like is watching visitors go barmy under the utter madness of Xaos (pronounced ax-os), and they love it. The gate to Limbo changes frequently as well, but for some reason it is always recognized as the gate to Limbo. But hey, that's how Xaos (pronounced bob) rolls.

- Bedlam sits at the bottom of a hill, where the gateto Pandemonium blows the wind from the plane into the burg. This maddening wind has driven the inhabitants to various degrees of insanity. The closer to the gate you are, the barmier you are. Staying for even a few days will drive one barmy. The people are petty, spiteful, malicious, twitchy and barmy as all hells. Filled with humans, bugbears, gnolls and more tanar'ri than is good for your health, the population is as big a threat to you as the maddening winds are. Overall, not a nice place to stay, even in the relatively peaceful Weylund's Inn.

- Plague-Mort is, as the name suggests, not a very nice place. The buildings are ill-maintained, the people are treacherous and spiteful, the local high-ups terrorise the population and oh yeah, there's a gate right into the Plain of Infinite Portals, also known as the first layer of the Abyss. People here either trek into the Abyss for whatever reason (the blessing of a dark power, adventure, riches) or they support the needs of those going into the Abyss. Neither of these groups are very nice people. Still, for those of you with a strong sword arm and the temperament that comes with being Chaotic Evil this is a decent place to trade and restock on goods that most upright berks would not dare touch.

- Curst is very welcoming to new visitors… but leaving might be a bit of a problem if you don't have proof of pressing matters elsewhere. Pretty much everyone here is a prisoner: refugees, escapees and exiles all try to amass forces to take revenge on whoever kicked them out. Unfortunately such plans almost always include taking over the burg first, and many such plots end in messy riots with a lot of people being put in the dead-book. The people here are whiny cunts who take slights easily and can hold grudges for a lifetime, and many of them are part of some cell or another of the Revolutionary League. The gate to Carceri sees little use, mainly because it's even more of a prison than its gate-town, and people don't want to be double exiled.

- Hopeless is… well, what do you think? It's build in a spiral going all the way down to the gate to the Gray Waste, inhabited by some of the most depressed sods you'll ever meet. They are so spent, tired and depressed they're not even capable of doing evil, which is not what you'd expect for a place of Neutral Evil. The gate is a puddle of black ooze at the bottom of a well. Touching it will send you to the Gray Waste, and if you know what you're doing you can use magic to control the ooze and throw it on people to send them there. The place is run by Thingol the Mocking, who has a pack of seven beholders under her command. How she did this nobody knows, but the fact is they're fanatically loyal to her, which frequently results in them being allowed to execute someone in a horrible way. Staying here for too long will make a body turn gray and develop a weakness to seeing bright color: so bad in fact that wearing bright colors will cause the locals to attack the source of the color in an attempt to make the color look more pale. Thingol exploits this in her performance art (when not performing Sontana for Songbird and Hammer) by painting a sod bright blue and watch them be torn apart by an angry mob.

>>213874

- Torch is located near a swamp set at the base of volcanic spires. When they erupt they send a stream of lava as well as disease and killer frogs towards the burg. The people of Torch are vicious, greedy and very dangerous. They believe the Outlands are theirs and will use any method available to get what they want. Fortunately for the rest of the Outlands this frequently put the people of Torch at odds with one another, meaning that the worst excesses are staved off. This also marks one of the few gate-towns that does not want to merge with their related plane, mainly because there's more stuff one can find or steal in the Outlands than there is in Gehenna. The gatethere is about 100 feet off the ground, requiring either flight or jumping off a nearby spire and good aim in order to get through.

- Ribcage is surprisingly low on fiends. Mainly because the local ruler doesn't like sharing his power with the Lords of the Nine and rather stay where he is as the highest authority around. This marks the outlook of many people in the gate-town: power, in any form, at any cost. Bribery and blackmail are common, and you must always suspect someone's trying to take advantage of you while you are here. The gate to Baator is not directly guarded, but you can't get there without the local lord finding out, and you might be stopped if he doesn't like you.

- Rigus is little more than a massive military encampment made of seven stacked octogonal rings. It is run with military efficiency: as long as you behave, conduct your business quickly and then leave you'll not find a lot of trouble. Military orders replace families, including forces from generals all the way down to civilians and slave-soldiers. The real power around here are the spirits of long-deceased generals, sticking around somehow as something not entirely unlike liches. Their crypt is located at the highest ring of the city, which also houses a mile-long spiral staircase going down to an archway made of bariaur bones containing a green-yellow portal with a black stripe in the center: the gate to Acheron.

- Automata is a bureaucratic nightmare. Rectangular in shape with city blocks all as big as one another it groups all buildings of the same type together, so expect to see all smiths in the same block. You can stay here if you want, but given how orderly everything is non-Guvners don't tend to stay very long. Everybody dresses the same, getting anything done involves filing miles of reports (and trying to play games with the law will have the Guvners, who fill all the important posts here, play games with you instead) and the gate to Mechanus is guarded at all hours. There is a criminal underground, with the tunnels under the city being a massive chaotic mess, the counterpart of the order above. This criminal element is the only thing keeping the gate-town ifrom joining Mechanus, and those caught going into or leaving the underground will be marked by proxies of the forces of law and Primus.

So there are plenty of places you can stay for the night, but don't expect the Outlands to be filled with havens of hospitality.

>>213871

What speculations? About the archdevils and ancient Baatorians?

>>213878

Yep those

>>213883

I was in those. Shoot, what do you wanna talk about?

Nah, I just wanted screencaps of those discussions for future campaigns.

I can't think of anything to discuss at the moment.

>>213894

Check this out. It's an old thread about ancient Baatorians and a lot of lower planes fluff.

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/34338430/

Maybe you'll find something useful there.

You may find this relevant:

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Tome_of_Fiends_(3.5e_Sourcebook)/Campaigning_on_the_Lower_Planes

>>213838

I came up with a good name for what I meant there. It's "universum incognita" which seems descriptive enough to me.

What's up with the various exiled Archdevils again?

Geryon was ostensibly sent on a super secret mission for Asmodeus, but he was just used to store the power for Glasya for the day she'd take the throne of the Sixth. Moloch meanwhile got exiled and played a part in The Apocalypse Stone, but mopes around for the remaining part. Are there any others?

>>218581

Besides the Rabble?

Gargauth got kicked out of the Nine Hells because he was such a dick, even the other archdevils couldn't stand his shit. He then ended up in Forgotten Realms, where he became a God. And now wants to take over, drag Toril to the depths of Hell, and make it the Tenth Circle of Hell, and to usurp Asmodeus.

Which, according to some fan speculation out there, is exactly what Asmodeus wants him to do. Because if he ends up dragging an entire world (along with its pantheon) to the Nine Hells, all those souls and gods would end up consumed by the Overlord (Asmodeus in Serpent form). This would cause him to heal up, leave the Nine Hells and wreck the multiverse.

>>218617

Alright. What's the deal with the various Archdevils mentioned in Planes of Law that vanish later on? Are they just other names for the same ol' devils?

>>218796

I don't have the PoL book with me, sorry. Do you know the names of those devils?

I think you're talking about the Rabble of Devilkin, who are exiled / outcast devils hanging out on Avernus, plotting on taking back their old positions and avenging themselves on everyone who ever slighted them. Duskur (the Archdevil of Undeath), Amon (the Lord of Hunt) and the like?

I have made up a bit of headcanon:

- Gods (or powers) are entities that have authority over and claim to

the souls of their dead followers. They may or may not be

trientgods.

Some gods are:

Mystra, Selune and Vecna.

- Trientgods (or trientpowers) are entities that grant divine spells

to their worshippers. They may also be known as saints or apostles.

As trientgods do not have claim to the souls of their followers they

are typically only worshipped in a subsidiary manner to a higher

god. Many, trientgods quickly ascend to full status as gods or fade

into obscurity.

- Immortals are creatures that do not die of old age but only from

outside harm.

Some immortals are undead, constructs and most outsiders.

>>213874

That Xaos description with the pronunciations is perfect - chaotic, but not lolrandom bullshit.

>>213861

For all we know, there might be some plane made entirely of inns and hotels.

>>have we discovered the comfy dimension?

>>219302

>comfy dimension

I'd say that any realm governed by a God of Hearth would qualify. "Comfy" is their domain, after all.

Now I'm imagining this giant comfy-off between various gods over who's the most comfiest.

>>218800

Sources are in Faces of Evil as well around page 30 or so. Bel and Dispater are defined. The Third is "a bloated slug that prattles on and on about the virtue of greed and jink". He's called the Viscount and Minauros. The first being Mammon's, and the second being the layer's name. It is also stated that one Duchess Glasya is his consort, so that's a dead giveaway it's likely Mammon. Fourth is described as either "a darkly handsome, red-skinned male" or "a woman of incredible beauty with fire dancing in her eyes." Given how they go on about their unknown gender it's likely that this refers to Belial and Fierna.

The Firth is outright stated to be Levistus, but he's got someone called Amon the Wolf in his service. The Sixth is the Hag Countess Malagard, the seventh is Triel the Fallen (Baalzebul's old name), but it's the Eight that's the big question. He's called Molikroth, and his descriptions doen't match Mephistopheles.

Come to think of it though, what exactly are Belial and Levistus? Are they of the same ilk as Dispater, Mammon and Mephistopheles in that they are "true" devils? Or are they fallen Celestials like Zariel and Triel? Or are they something else entirely?

>>219380

Ah, that? Yeah, those are the same archdevils we have now. The thing is, because of the whole "DnD is satanism!" craze that was going on at the time, the writers couldn't just outright call them by their real-world names. Hence Minauros, Molikroth and the crew.

Mammon is the Viscount Minauros (full name). He appears as the giant snake/slug monster because, after the Reckoning of Hell (which happened sometime before Planescape's timeline) he decided to stop being Mammon in order to show to Asmodeus how he's a changed devil, and that he wouldn't betray him, honest. He switched from his bloated pit-fiend form into giant snake monster form, and changed his name as well.

Belial / Fierna are the two ruling the Fourth. But because Belial decided to step back (and rule from the shadows) and Fierna took the stage (as her daddy's mouthpiece), that's where the confusion comes from. It's written from the PoV of a regular berk in Sigil's streets who has no idea of the political clusterfucks that are going on in the Nine Hells. And the Baatezu aren't telling.

Molikroth is Mephistopheles. After the Reckoning, Mephistopheles sat on his throne, and didn't move for ages. He became frozen. One of his dukes, Molikroth, decided to stage a coup - he gathered like-minded individuals to him, while exiling everyone loyal to Mephistopheles away. Then, after a while, he called all his "allies" to the throne room to show them something wonderful. He revealed himself to be Mephistopheles in disguise, and showed them what he was working on in secret - Hellfire. So he burned all the traitors alive, reinstated himself as Mephistopheles, and unleashed Hellfire on the multiverse. Perfect plot.

As for Belial, he's a fallen angel, like Baalzebul. That's why they get along well.

As for Levistus… No idea. Never mentioned. He was never allied with anyone, but he does have some friendly relationships with Mephistopheles (he loans him souls needed for Hellfire experiments - probably hoping that Hellfire will free him from his ice prison). And if you go with apocryphal texts, he's Leviathan, the giant world eating serpent, and that the entire Fifth Hell is actually his prison.

>>219386

Forgot one part: Levistus was apparently always there. After Asmodeus took the throne of Hell, Levistus was already ruling the Fifth Circle.

Only after he attempted to fuck Bensozia, did he end up in a giant ice prison, and Geryon took over the Fifth Circle.

Another side note is that he's pretty friendly with the 'loths. Considering how Charon (the boatman, the guy in charge of the River Styx) is also a 'loth, and how Levistus is already swimming in the Styx, you could make the tenuous connection that Levistus might be a 'loth himself.

>>219387

Yeah, I know Levistus is rather chummy with the Yugoloths, which is rather frowned upon.

The story of him fucking Asmodeus' wife is a bit different though. You see, she approached him because her marriage was an unhappy one and you don't just dump Asmodeus. So she approached him and they started an affair, with her planning to make Levistus overthrow Asmodeus. But Levistus had another fuckbuddy: Bensozia's daughter, Glasya. One day she had a fight with her daddy and ran off to her lover Levistus, and found him balls-deep in her mom. This greatly enraged Glasya and she killed her mom.

Asmodeus' constable Martinet knew that if word came out that Bensozia had cheated on Asmodeus it would make his boss look bad, so he pinned the murder on Levistus who was put on ice. Asmodeus had some choice words for his daughter and kicked her out, where she set up shop in Mammon's court, who greatly appreciated the princess and they started an affair.

After the clusterfuck with the Reckoning Asmodeus broke the affair and made her the leader of the Erinyes, where she stayed until she learned some manners and was made the Lord of the Sixth as a reward.

All according to Asmodeus' plan.

>>219389

To be honest, I never bought the "Asmodeus loved Bensozia" story. He's the fucking overlord of the Nine Hells and the embodiment of LE, he shouldn't feel love.

No, the thing is that Bensozia gave birth to Glasya, and Asmodeus had no use for her anymore. He orchestrated her death himself, and it all went according to plan. Levistus (a wildcard in Hell politics) gets put on ice, Bensozia (who betrayed her master) gets a traitor's reward, and Glasya learns a valuable lesson in politics, as well as a target she can focus on instead of wasting her time having parties and fucking around.

>>219392

I like the angle of Asmodeus engineering Bensozia's death. It makes sense.

Another thing though. Did Glasya get the power of two Lords of the Nine when she became Lord of the Sixth?

Sure, Dispater, Mammon, Baalzebul and Mephistopheles all have their share. The power of the Lord of the First is still in Zariel's hands, but hers is being drained by Bel. Not sure if Belial's power is being shared with Fierna though.

So that leaves the Lords of the Fifth and the Sixth. Asmodeus specifically did not give Levistus the power associated with the Lord of the Fifth, so it must've remained with Geryon. Meanwhile, when he kicked out Moloch and replaced him with the Hag Countess, did the power from him get moved to her?

When the Hag Countess got replaced with Glasya she started to swell up to the point where she covered the plane and exploded. When Geryon got stripped of his power he turned into a Vestige. And that power all had to go somewhere. Did Glasya get double charged or something? I know that Asmodeus has plans for her because of her unique nature (she can leave Baator whenever she wants), and this might be part of that. Or did I miss something?

>>219393

No, Belial kept his power to himself. Fierna is Lord in name only, Belial is still the true power in the Fourth.

Levistus kept his old power, even after being imprisoned. Geryon's energy probably ended up consumed to keep Levistus in place, though. That would explain why that ice prison never budges an inch despite all the stuff Levistus and his minions are trying to do to it. Or Asmodeus consumed it, just to rub more salt into Geryon's wounds.

Moloch's power passed onto Malagarde, and then to Glasya. Malagarde tried to become a deity at one point through an unholy ritual, which apparently Asmodeus sabotaged. So all that divine energy she absorbed caused her to explode and reform the Sixth layer. Her usual (so, her Lord of Sixth) energy got passed down to Glasya. Probably a bit of it went to Asmodeus as well.

So nope, Glasya has only the power of one Lord. Asmodeus probably still wants to keep her under wraps, and having a rebellious daughter with the strength of two Archdevils would spell disaster.

Fair enough. On a different subject: why do the inhabitants of the Upper Planes just sit around doing fuck all?

- On Arcadia people are all about order and stuff without actually trying to spread it.

- On Mount Celestia it's all about serving the hierarchy and doing good on a small scale where it's ineffectual.

- The Bytopians are busy living in a middle ages-set Disney movie, but without royalty.

- On Elysium everything's Narnia as fuck and people are high on goodness.

- The Beastlands are filled to the brim with animals that live their animal lives.

- The Eladrin fucked up one time invading the Abyss and have been butthurt about it ever since.

- While Ysgard is Viking Central they're too busy fighting each other to get shit done.

So why not marshall a masive army and steamroll the Lower Planes? Sure, there might be infinite devils and demons but those are only two infinite forces while the Upper Planes have seven. Even if the Yugoloth join in the fiends are stil outnumbered. The more Lawful planes have some rather militant elements that are more busy with building forces rather than using them, and on the Chaotic side of things there are people too busy helping on a small scale or jerking off (in some cases quite literally) to do things. I mean, you got a massive number of celestial firebreathing T. rexes, do something with them! Eladrin are powerful soldiers so do something with them, or at least let them go on their own so it doesn't cut into the time that Queen Morwel can spend on having bisexual threesomes with her consort and her champion. Talsid and his buddies are an epic level adventuring party, you'd expect them to actually go, ya know, adventuring. And what are the vikigns waiting for, for Ahriman's wounds to heal and rise up from Nessus to lay waste to the multiverse, so that they can fight in Ragnarok?

>>219437

Even united, the Abyss alone outnumbers all the 7 Good planes. And the last time they united and invaded the Lower Planes, they only managed to unite the various fiends together and got their ass handed to them. It got to the point that the Upper Planes were almost invaded by an united Evil Front.

Luckily for the forces of Good, the invasion failed because the Evil dudes could not decide over who to steamroll first. The devils wanted to crush the Eladrin, the Abyss wanted to crush Celestia and so on. And then the infighting started. That, and you don't want the Rilmani to BALANCE things out.

Since then, the forces of Good have been fighting a losing battle. They started blaming each other over who's responsible for why they lost (with the Eladrin blaming the Archons, the Archons blaming the Eladrin, Arcadians deciding that this was a bad idea because they'd be the first on the shitlist if something happened) and so on. They even stopped trying to rally forces of Good to their cause, deciding that it's better if the mortals themselves handle that shit instead of them actively interfering (because the last time they did that, Triel and his crew fell to Evil because mortals suck so much).

The Good guys lost the decisive battle back then, when Evil was far less organized and weak. They have no chance at victory now. The best they can do is hope the Blood War lasts forever.

Planescape is grim as fuck.

>>219551

>The initial conflict in the multiverse was Law VS Chaos

Where did you get that? That's the current conflict (Blood War). The conflict before that was Good vs Evil, and what happened before that we can only guess, but apparently was the Neutral races fighting each other.

>where the fuck did the Eladrin come from?

They sprung up naturally from Arborea.

Though if you wanna go into history of Arborea, there was a race of CG Exemplars before the Eladrin. There are ruins that belonged to them on one of the layers (the desert one). They disappeared after a while, and the Eladrin (who are more similar to Lantern archons than anything else, because they're actually balls of light that take on the form of fancy elves) took their place.

As for what came even before them, it's rumored that there was an even older race that, similar to the Baerns and the 'loths, split from TG into the CG and LG races.

>>219561

>Where did you get that? That's the current conflict (Blood War). The conflict before that was Good vs Evil, and what happened before that we can only guess, but apparently was the Neutral races fighting each other.

It's the initial conflict between the forces of Law (mostly all of the gods and their soldiers) against the forces of Chaos (mostly the Obyrith and their Tanar'ri). Asmodeus was on the side of Law, suckered the gods into giving him Baator and he and his bros Dispater, Mammon, Mephistopheles and all the other angels on his side joined him there. They roughed up the critters living on Baator, Asmodeus kicked Zargon's ass and threw his horn to the Prime Material while making up the story that he was not powerful enough to kill Zargon, and began to form his plan for Evil. This history works both with and without the Asmodeus-is-Ahriman story.

>>219568

You mean the war with the Wind-Dukes of Aaqa?

That one's kinda fucked up to pinpoint. The Obyriths came way later. The original war (the 1e one) had two Inner Races (the Aaqa as the Lawful one and the other who were Chaotic) fight it out over the Prime / Inner planes. At that time, the Outer planes weren't even formed.

Then 3e came, retconned the fuck out of it, and decided that the Vaati fought with the Obyriths who were also at the time fighting with the proto-Modrons (who became Baatorians).

But at the same time, you have the Outer Planes forming, and the various TN subspecies splitting into alignment. So you could say that the first war in the Universe (Inner / Prime) was between the Law and Chaos, and the first in the Outer is a huge unknown, with the G vs E conflict being the potentially first.

It's a clusterfuck.

>>219575

Oh yeah, one more thing.

The original, first Outer Planar races were all some variant of Neutral (TN, NE, NG, LN, CN) because they were influenced by the Inner Planes.

Then they started cross-breeding, and the aphanacts (angelic-looking proto-modrons related to the Inevitables, probably Asmodeus' real race) crossbred with Lawful 'loth refuse, and you get the Baatezu.

>>219575

>>219578

Huh, I figured the timeline to have gone something like this:

>There's Chaos and only Chaos

>Things start to resist Chaos, become Law

>Law and Chaos start to fuck each other up

>Somewhere around here the Aboleth show up, but they're not important

>Asmodeus rises to prominence

>The Queen of Chaos roughes up Obox-ob and becomes the leader of the Obyrith. She makes Miska the Wolf-Spider the Prince of Demons, securing the loyalty of the Tanar'ri

>Tired of having Asmodeus fuck up their peace with the screams of torture victims, they sign the Pact Primordial in triplicate: one copy goes to Mount Celestia, one copy goes to Mechanus, one copy goes to Baator with Asmodeus

>With Asmodeus and his buddies buggered off, the war against Chaos goes south

>Wind Dukes of Aaqa make the Rod of Seven Parts, use it to fuck Miska's shit and lock him away on Pandemonium

>Queen of Chaos and her forces retreat to the Abyss

>Eladrin invade and fuck everyone's shit up, slaughtering many of the Obyrith

>Tanar'ri rebel and join in on the killing

>Eladrin forces get beaten and locked in the Abyss

>Queen of Chaos mopes about looking for a way to free her boytoy

>Demogorgon proclaims himself the new Prince of Demons

>Raiding parties of Baatezu and Tanar'ri explore the Lower Planes, run into each other and start to fight

>This eventually escalates into the Blood War, raging to this very day

And then history began.

>>219587

Nah, it actually goes Proto Prime -> Elemental Planes & Prime -> Outer Planes.

The Tanar'ri are specifically said to have been born from mortal fears and emotions (Demogorgon is the mortal fear of savage beasts and nature given form, for example), while the Obyriths came from the time before mortals. And they were locked in a war with Elementals, meaning that the Elementals are older than mortal races.

So all that chaos in Limbo? Yeah, that's how the Multiverse was before Law was brought unto the planes.

Is there something of an overview of all the various sects (not factions) in Planescape? I've seen the ones on 1d4chan, but I know that list is not complete.

>>213409

>>213484

>>213575

>>213576

noice

>>213400

The fist picture looked awfully like DIO before clicking it.

>>219926

Something like this?

> http://mimir.net/sects/

> https://to-chance-with-hell-planescape.obsidianportal.com/wikis/sects-and-ex-factions

>>220022

The first link mixes fanfiction with actual stuff, and the other mixes those that are actually statted out with those that are not.

Also, nice 3x dubs combo.

What is the Dustmen opinion on Construct types? How can something that was never alive obtain true death?

>>220163

The elemental spirit within it can.

>>220190

That animating elemental spark is not the construct.

Does Kylie the Tout know that her mother is Shemeshka the Marauder, and that mom is looking after her little girl?

Does anyone have a link to the planescape books?

>>220627

https://spillklubben.samfunnet.no/Filer/ad&dbooks/

>>220597

IIRC, nope. She knows that she has somebody looking over her, but no idea that someone is Shmeeshka.

>>220627

https://kat.cr/tsr-d-d-products-basic-and-advanced-dungeons-and-dragons-t7554653.html

Looking at Factol Rowan Darkwood's story, I realized that his perfectly normal life was fucked up because he let his kids play with what turned out to be a Deck of Many Things. Everything that happened from that point onwards, him going to the Planes, becoming a cleric of Heimdall, figuring out how to become a Prolonger, settling in Sigil, deciding he wanted to rule it, going from newly sworn in member of the Takers all the way to its Factol in a matter of minutes because of some dirt he had on the old Factol, radically repurposing them into a more aggressive force of tax collectors, stumbling upon the stone needed to cast the Sigil spell and changing it forever, plotting a war between the various factions, seducing and marrying the Mercykiller Factol so that he gained the loyalty of the Mercykillers, selling his new wife to the fiends, have a Sigil-wide war break out, get send to the Mazes by the Lady of Pain, escaping via a very carefully-worded Wish spell bought from a Prime wizard, realize he's been sent 500 years back in time, get locked up in the Gatehouse because people think he's gone barmy, live 500 years to catch up to his current self, escape with the help of a few cutters, try and cast the Sigil spell with the stone only to fail and get whisked back in time to become the creator of the Sigil spell in the first place, which would end up inspiring his younger self to try and use it to overthrow the Lady of Pain. Unity of Rings and all that.

All thanks to a single Deck of Many Things.

>>222439

Whoops, forgot to mention that his fuckery also brought down the other factions because the Lady of Pain decided she's had enough of them fucking everyone's shit up and almost all Factols save for a few get send to the Mazes. The Bleaker Factol goes barmy right before it all begins, appoints a successor and enters the Grim Retreat (but he intends to return, something that's never been done before), the Factols of the Harmonium and the Fraternity of Order are assassinated, the Mercykiler Factol is sold to the fiends and Darkwood himself gets kicked back in time again by the Lady of Pain. The only one to give the Mazes the laugh is Factol Rhys of the Transcendent Order, who senses bad shit coming and goes underground on Elysium until everything's over.

After all this the Lady of Pain messes with the portals a bit and outlaws the existence of the factions. Some of them pack their bags and go to their home in the Outer Planes, others just tear up their charter and continue as they have always done, just without the names and symbols. The members of some factions celebrate the downfall of the factions, especially the Revolutionary League. Who then discovered they had nothing to engage in a revolution against and began to succumb to infighting. The Believers of the Source and the Sign of One were pretty cut up from the civil war, so they banded together and formed the Mind's Eye, traveling the planes. Meanwhile, the Mercykillers split off into the Sodkillers (LE mercenaries) and the Sons of Mercy (LG, seek to habillitate criminals and their punishments are to make up for the crimes they committed). Three remain three. Rule of Three.

All of that because of a Deck of Many Things.

>>213604

Well there are gates to each plain on the great disc on which Sigil sits at the center of. There are towns built up around the portals to these planes. They usually somewhat personify the plane they are built up around.

>>222464

The Far Realm does not have gate towns like the big sixteen in the Outlands linking to the Outer Planes.

>>222439

Yeah, that's a cool story and all, but I'm not playing TTRPGs to be an extra in a movie about the writers' super-awesome character. I want MY character to be getting cryptic advice from the crazy old man in the asylum that's actually himself from the future.

Fuck "metaplot," and fuck all designers' special super-cool favorite characters.

>>222530

That's the adventure: the players get stuck in a plot with the Xaositects pulling one of their plots all the way up to the confrontaiton with Darkwood himself, obtaining the Labyrinth Stone and using its power to end the war as they see fit. It's actually them doing it for a change and not some NPCs like with so many other metaplots.

>>222470

What is Far Realm anyway?

>>222470

What is Far Realm anyway?

>>223076

I mean I know the basic gist.

> realm of madness

> cthulhustuff

I mean in relation to all the planar stuff.

Is it like prototypical chaos stuff that's left over from creating the planes?

Awright, we'll start with Sigil. Sort of… Sigil is the city of doors, there's a portal to everywhere in Sigil, bear in mind you don't need a specialist to open them, literaly any 0th level street urchin could know what the key to a portal is and where it goes. It's also possible to open one and walk through it without realizing it until you're blinking in confusion on the other side because when it's said the key could be anything that includes the dog shit on your shoe. a piece of string exactly 1.27 inches in your left coat pocket, or a specific song being stuck in your head.

Sigil is city built on the inside of a donut that floats just above an infinitely tall spire. which is at the exact center of an infinite plane of existence. At the edges of this infinite plane of existence are cities built around doors to other infinite planes of existence. Because that's how shit works in the outer planes where thought becomes reality. There are setlements all over the various planes. For starters, there are plenty of normal people who have just been born there. So an orc tribe sacking and raping their way across one plane or another isn't really a stretch. Then there are the petitioners, the souls of deceased mortals who end up in whatever plane their alignment corresponds to. Then there are the Planar natives to the plane itself. The Angels, the Rilimani, the Slaad, the Baatazue and the Tanari for example.

What they're all engaged in is one massive ideological war. Whether they realize it or not (most of the Planar Creatures do, those capable of thought anyway. doubt a dretch or a Bodak could have a meaningful philosophical conversation) because again, thought shapes reality.

Those border cities? Eventually one to many people with the proper alignment walks in, and the whole thing gets sucked through the portal into the plane it aligned with.Then a new city pops up in it's place, over night, just like the last one. Because that's just how it works. Everyone, everyone, EVERYONE is caught up in a massive strugle to dominate the outer planes, absorb all the other planes, and become the ONE TRUE ALIGNMENT. An exercise as pointless as trying to calculate Pi all the way to it's end. But the ones driving this conflict, even the ones fully aware of that fact, CANNOT STOP because they are literally made out of Alignment. Trying to go against that is like trying to gnaw your own arm off. Which is why should your party stumble upon one that HAS so altered it's behaviour to shift it's alignment, it should be a wretched crippled shadow of it's former self wallowing in self pity. Yes, that Lawfull Good Balor isn't just having an existential crisis, it's doing the extra-planar equivalent of trying to exist without a liver.

Which planes does Planescape supplements don't go deep enough?

>>223077

>Is it like prototypical chaos stuff that's left over from creating the planes?

Nah, that's Limbo.

We have no idea what the Far Realm really is. No setting really goes into it, besides screaming "IT'S STRANGE AND LOVECRAFTIAN" over and over again. What we do know is that aberrations such as Beholders came from it, and that it's the same Far Realm that's threatening every cosmology everywhere (meaning that, no matter if you play Forgotten Realms, Planescape, Spelljammer or your own special Donut Steel setting, the Far Realm is somewhere out there, waiting).

You could make the case that the Far Realm is the meta realm, the inbetween every setting that exist. The domain of DMs everywhere.

On the other hand, it's basically the "realm mortals can't understand". That's why it's usually not even drawn on Planar maps, or if it is, it's just referred to as "Outside" - as in "outside mortal comprehension". You could make the interesting case that while it is outside mortal comprehension, that does not cover the comprehension of Gods and other things. In that case, the Far Realm is to the Outer Planes what the Outer Planes are to the Inner Planes.

Or, if you're a fan of the theory of the three giant cosmic serpents of Law, then the Far Realm is the stuff they couldn't organize to fit their vision of the multiverse. It's chaos, but it's not the leftover chaos - that would imply there's less of it than the multiverse, and that's wrong. It's more like it's the giant strange sea of ideas and concepts in which the multiverses float.

>>225169

Any not named Mount Celestia, Baator or the Abyss.

>>223117

A Lawful-Good Bleaker Balor who just can't see the point of evil but finds good too depressing?

>>227264

Best thing about Bel is that he wasn't given the title of an Archdevil. Asmodeus never invested the power needed to make him one, and that's why he's forced to eat Zariel on a daily basis.

Probably a smart move, since Bel is apparently savvy enough to use any chance given to him to advance. If he was imbued with the power of an Archdevil, who knows what the guy might accomplish?

>>227265

My pet theory as to why Asmodeus hasn't killed Levistus yet is that Levistus and Asmodeus are actually close allies. Levistus rules over the Styx, the river that erases the memories of anything that drinks from it. Asmodeus has many secrets he wants hidden, such as his true form as a giant cosmic serpent.

Glasya will never get the green light to kill him, because Levistus and Asmodeus have been in cahoots since time immemorial. Bensozia fulfilled her purpose as the incubator for Glasya, so he let Levistus do whatever he wants with her. The only thing that matters to Asmodeus right now is that Glasya manages to break free from Hell, after which he'll discard her just like he did with her mother.

Or, if you want to go insane with conspiracies, Asmodeus, Lucifer and Levistus are aspects of the same giant cosmic serpent thing. Levistus is mentioned in some sources as the Leviathan, aka a giant snake monster. Pretty big coincidence there.

>>213409

There was a youtuber who did a brilliant explanation on the LoP (as far as I know) however he's fallen out of favor recently and out of his damn mind.

Linking, can't make a webm, your call: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnMzDyIJT2g

If you go for advice from him in the future, don't. He metagames HARD (Don't get on the boat, don't trust women, just knock on the door since they have to open it to see who it is, etc), but his stories are very entertaining (at least to myself 5 or 10 years ago).

Short version, the LoP can fuck you in a myriad of ways, but worse case it will "maze" you. Teleport you to your own personal plane into a maze even an immortal would never get to the end of.

Also, never worship the LoP. It's implied worship of it would turn it into a God, something less than it already is. Graven images of it attract it and make it kill/uncreate anyone responsible.

>>213400

>>213409

>>213484

>>213575

>>213576

>>213873

>>213874

>>213876

>>213604

>>213754

Please tell me someone can screencap and stitch these together? This is all fucking beautiful!

Planescape also sounds a little like Digimon. A fantastical "wonderland" that has the best and worst of everything in every environment.

Can someone run campaigns starting from level 1 here, or is this 15+ or even 20 and… whatever the hell you do after 20.

>>227317

I like the Planescape setting but I hate the Lady of Pain circlejerk.

>>227345

You can start at level 1, sure..

>>227345

Yeah level 1 campaigns work. You just need to stick to Sigil and not be an idiot.

>>227345

>Can someone run campaigns starting from level 1 here, or is this 15+ or even 20 and… whatever the hell you do after 20.

Sure. As >>227440 stated, for the lower levels you will want to stay in Sigil, pitting the players against player race enemies. Keep them as simple low-life though; pissing off the Factions at this point is suicide. Further on, the Planescape Boxed Set suggests four layers of depth:

- At the lowest levels stay in Sigil. Teach the players the layout of the city, what's going on there and all that stuff from the relative safety and predictability of the Cage.

- After the players get a few levels under their belts send them out-of-town, aka the Outlands. There's more stuff to do there, but it's more dangerous with beasts, raiders, the occational roving band of planars and what-else out there. Also, the Outlands themselves can be a mess to navigate: going from anywhere to anywhere takes at least 3d6 days. So pack a lunch. Also, certain magic works differently here so have your wizard read up.

- When around level 10 and knowing the dark of the Outlands players will want to explore the planes and see what they have to offer. The Great Wheel is dangerous though, and a wise basher loads up on gear and information first. Learn where you should wear ear plugs, where to avoid locals, where you can safely talk with locals, where you should not summon your celestial steed, where you should not go to trade even if the place seems perfectly safe, and so on and so forth. Still, the planes are too large for even immortal cutters to fully experience.

- If the players are still standing after this, they can venture into the more dangerous places. Not just the Lower Planes, but also things like the Inner Planes, where death can come in seconds if you're not careful. At this point players might want to build a legacy: become a Factol, set up a town in the Outlands, become a Proxy, create a demiplane in the Ethereal or just become demigods of their own.

The most important thing to know about Planescape though is that you're not there to kill everything. There are infinite numbers of fiends out there, you can't kill them all. You can't go and kill the Slaad lords and expect the Slaadi to just disband, kill the queen of the Githyanki, go teabag Dispater into submission, have Graz'zt summoned to Oerth permanently and have the Abyss fall into even more chaos, or "defeat" evil. Planescape doesn't fly like that: it is infinite and you are not. And don't you forget that, berk.

In Planescape there are these things called "Mimirs". They're construct skulls that basically act as an encyclopedia, usually on the subject of describing the Planes. They made a CD about one, that was basically some short audio plays describing all the Outer Planes and the Outlands.

CD was called A Player's Primer to the Outlands. I'm working on getting the entire thing uploaded to Youtube. It's pretty cheesy stuff, the acting is kinda meh, but it seems like a pretty effective way of getting a feel for the places outside Sigil.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1BfqQU1kns

>>228026

I liked the idea I read recently that Mephistopheles is the Archduke of Despair. Similar to how Mammon is the Archduke of Greed, or Baalzebul the Archduke of Pride, good ol' Mephistopheles rules over Despair - and is a victim of it.

All his schemes? All his pursuits of knowledge (the guy is the patron of wizards, after all)? All his inventions? They're meaningless to him. Deep down, he knows that everything he does is meaningless, and that's why he's so desperate to attain Asmodeus' throne. He hopes against hope that with it, he might attain some new knowledge, something that would put all the pieces together. That's why he's the most ambitious and the most curious one - he needs something that would give him meaning.

His posturing is just that - posturing. That's why he flies into blind rages when he's all alone. That's why he's risking it all on this Hellfire thing. That's why he's dabbling with ancient Baatorians and things that should not be. He's desperate for meaning. And if he accepted that Evil is meaningless, he'll simply stop existing - since he's made of Evil, after all.

It's a pretty neat idea. It manages to give him some real depth, and puts his rivalry with Asmodeus in a completely different light - if Mephistopheles rules over what is known; Asmodeus. with his plots and schemes and the fact that he's an ancient cosmic serpent, rules over everything that is unknown. That's why Mephistopheles desires his throne and knowledge so much. That's why Baalphegor is his consort. That's why he's the patron of intellectuals and wizards.

He wants to know. And not knowing drives him insane.

>>228042

So the seven sins plus despair for the Archdukes, hm? Let's see…

- Bel: Gluttony (because he wants more powers, to rise higher and become more)

- Dispater: Sloth (because he sits on his ass all day working through others)

- Mammon: Greed

- Belial: Lust (because incest)

- Levistus: Envy (because he's not a devil, he's locked away, he wants things that others have like Glasya and her mom)

- Glasya: Wrath (because piss her off and she'll fuck your shit up like your shit's never been fucked up before)

- Baalzebul: Pride

- Mephistopheles: Despair

>>228153

I think the seven sins are more Abyssal things (hell, it's even confirmed in Dragon 353). The Archdukes are more obsessions, certain patterns (we're talking about Law here) that drives people to do evil shit.

> Mephistopheles? Obsessed with knowledge.

> Baalzebul? Obsessed with perfection.

> Dispater? Obsessed with keeping power.

And so on.