/asatru/ - Asatru / Heathenry / Paganism

>>8913

>One esoteric theory I've kicked around (and I imagine others have as well) is that Odin's quest for the Runes is at least partially a metaphor for the power of writing and literacy, in addition to magic.

Isn't this just the standard literary interpretation of those stories?

>>8916

Yeah, this is pretty basic level "esotericism"

read some von list and get back to me

one of the things list talked about was that the secret to valhalla is that it represents reincarnation; a privilege given only to those who know the best way to die.

>>8917

Didn't Guido von List either filter Heathenry through a Hermetic Mysteries-esque worldview or outright make up stuff?

Besides, one interpretation of Valhalla was that it was a metaphor for the mass graves that were dug and filled in the aftermath of a battle, with the wives burying their husbands being "Valkyries." (Though I also remember Valkyries originally being a far more primal and terrifying force before they evolved into the warrior maidens on white horses we know today.)

Then with syncretism with Christian influence, it became an entirely separate spiritual realm in order to comfort those who could not recover the bodies of their fallen relatives due to possibly being buried in a mass grave in a foreign land.

The original Heathen worldview had no concept of completely separate spiritual realms that one separated from their body to go to upon dying. You can see this in how bodies were buried with items, and how bodies were buried near homes or even under homes, so that deceased ancestors could be nearby protective forces. This included an instance in which a renowned chieftain's body was cut up into pieces, with each piece buried in a different village so that as many could benefit from his protection as possible,

Only when Christianity began mingling with with Heathenry, did it bring the Abrahamic/Semitic concept of entirely seperate spiritual realms with it.

Sources:

http://www.heathengods.com/library/road_to_hel/road_to_hel.pdf

http://heathengods.com/library/bil_linzie/after_life_bil_linzie.pdf

http://heathengods.com/library/bil_linzie/germanic_spirituality.pdf

The last two links and this link in particular:

http://www.angelfire.com/nm/seidhman/reincarnation2.pdf

Indicate that archaeological evidence for a Heathen belief in reincarnation is sparse. If it did exist, at best, it is not what we think of in terms of the modern concept of reincarnation, and at worst, is completely blown out of proportion by the Wicca/New Age movement.

>>8916

>>8917

Also, what is the more deeper level esoteric interpretation of Odin's attainment of the runes?

>>8919

I have been thinking for a while about Odin's twelfth runic charm:

>I know the twelfth:

>if I see up in a tree

>a hanged corpse swinging,

>I carve

>and colour the runes

>that the man moves

>and speaks with me.

He says here that upon encountering a corpse in a tree, he can use writing to somehow resurrect the corpse so that it moves and talks. Of course, we have not demonstrated this ability with our writing, but even though we do not have the power of Odin, perhaps we do have access to some of the power of this charm.

So I am wondering, is the underlying message here that writing down a man's words preserves more of his being than just a record of that utterance? When we read the words of people who have died, perhaps we are experiencing an intangible form of contact with them that exceeds merely conveying a collection of words and sentences from the past. I wonder if the sounds we hear and the images we see as we are reading are a manifestation of the author moving and speaking in our minds. Remembering and repeating the words does not make that bit of the dead man quite as permanent, as people have to actively retain and recite the words to make them available. But writing them down gives those words an external existence that persists independently, and that can speak on demand to anyone who happens upon an inscription on a runestone or a passage in a book.

>>8920

An enlightening interpretation.

So you too agree, as well, that there is a strong element of the theme of the power of the written word throughout Odin's acquiring of the runes?

I'm curious if there have been academic writings that confirm or at least potentially reinforce this notion. While I personally feel a strong pull towards this interpretation, I am unaware of any research papers or the like that shed more light on this.

So I was thinking about Frigg and Freya, how they are different yet obviously very similar. I remembered reading somewhere that it is theorized that they were once the same goddess, but became divided and more specialized for some reason. Frigg becoming a goddess associated with traditional domestic duties, while Freya became more of a goddess of the wild.

My research directed me to the likes of Perchta, the White Women, Hulders, Frau Holle and Holda, which I think are pretty obvious to most, as being earlier forms of Frigg/Freya:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perchta

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wei%C3%9Fe_Frauen

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holda

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hulder

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frau_Holle

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_Hulda

Nevertheless, I stumbled across this page, which had a particular revelation that, quite frankly, floored me:

http://www.tourmycountry.com/austria/perchtenpagancustom1.htm

"Traditionally, Frau Perchta is believed to be a god-like creator half man, half woman, but usually displayed in its female manifestation. She appears on Earth on the turning point between the old and the new year (winter solstice, matching with Christmas and the Julfestival in Scandinavian countries). Frau Perchta represents the dual male/female deity and is accompanied by all sorts of evil spirits of the winter."

Frau Perchta being both male and female (or half male, half female) brings up a couple of points of speculation to mind:

1. Could Hel being half alive, half dead, be descended from this concept?

2. Could the twins relationship of Frey and Freya, just be a latter/corrupted version of the male/female duality of Frau Perchta, and thus, not only are Frigg and Freya a hypostasis of each other, but Frey and Freya as well?

Also of note, is the concept of the goddess of the wild in the specific role as initiator:

http://www.theoddgods.com/deities/perchtaberchta/

"Belly-Slitter/Initiatory Aspects

One of the common motifs around Perchta is that of the belly slitter, punishing people who betrayed cultural norms. Motz notes that Perchta seems to have aspects of an educator and she wonders (I as well) if these themes weren’t originally related to an initiation of some sort.

Motz notes “Stories of the education of the young by a superhuman being, especially if it takes place in the wilderness, bring to mind the practices of puberty initiation of primitive societies. In these, separation from parental dwellings and experiences inflicted by superhuman forces are essential for the spiritual second birth and for gaining an adult status. … The recurrent tale of Perchta’s opening and refilling of human stomachs appears to be an initiatory motif. … The refilling of a body with a new substances obviously takes place only in initiatory dreams … Mutilated men and men whose bodies have been cut so that their intestines trail behind are noted in descriptions of the wild host which is so frequently headed by the goddess.” Maybe these mutilated individuals are supposed to represent those who somehow failed initiation.

It seems that for women, Perchta’s initiatory roles would be centered around spinning, and for men, it would be involved in the perchten processions – at first becoming personifications of wild entities, and later appearing in the costume of the region, representing the state of young adulthood they were aspiring to.

Interestingly enough, there is a similar incident in Laxdaela saga, in which a character experiences a vision where a woman comes to him, cuts him open, and replaces his innards with brushwood. The woman turns out to be his guardian idis and did this as protection; the next day he is mortally wounded in battle and thought to be dead. However, he’s fine the morning after that, and says that the woman came back to him in the night and put his entrails back."

Which dovetails nicely with this video:

>>9316

Which is essentially of preview of this dissertation paper - "The Maiden with the Mead: A Goddess of Initiation in Norse Mythology?":

https://www.duo.uio.no/bitstream/handle/10852/23958/18497.pdf?sequence=1

I will be reading the above further for more info.

>>9659

Also forgot about Waelburga more than likely being a corrupted version of a Germanic goddess:

http://www.friggasweb.org/walburga.html

>>8919

It's a spiritual death and rebirth of sorts. More knowledge/power is attained, so the old, weak self "dies" and is replaced by a new self that has knowledge and power you didn't previously posses. It's also one of the places where the christcucks nicked their crucified "saviour" from, as well as being "born again".

Does anyone have an explanation for the number of einhärjar that will exit odins hall at once being the exact number of proposed years of the kali yuga?

>>9659

Perchta and Holle show how incredibly complicated things are. Here is something from a German source:

>The Bercht-Woman (Frau means woman) is the shining woman; we saw, that she is clothed in shining white linen; so it is Frigg, who today still wanders around many castles as "white woman" and is honored as the ancestress of some royal lineage (Fürstengeschlecht); she appears warning her latest offspring, when danger is imminent (for example when an offspring will die, whereby the else white woman apears black or half black; - a memory of Hel as the foundation of Frigga) or when serious crimes were committed.

Considering her heavy connection with spinning, the norns also come to mind.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Three_Spinners

>She appears on Earth on the turning point between the old and the new year

>She was known as a goddess who oversaw spinning and weaving, like myths of Holda in Continental German regions.

>she was sometimes the leader of the Wild Hunt

Fucking hell, so much stuff comes to mind with this. Is Perchta basically the female part of the male Wotan, as they both are the heads of the wild hunt? Does Wotan's knowledge of Seiðr come from this duality? Is that why they are married, to show them as a unit? Is in the end everyone basically a facet of each other? Pls.