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/a/ - Animu & Mango

Winner of the 58rd Attention-Hungry Games
/8diamonds/ - Death can be a merciful thing

October 2018 - 8chan Transparency Report
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File: c844b0838b26f28⋯.png (299.69 KB, 1333x1200, 1333:1200, c844b0838b26f283ecd630d800….png)

File: ebb9a833deb91f2⋯.jpg (276.51 KB, 1920x1080, 16:9, japaneselearning.jpg)

 No.855789

Quad-annual? Tri-annual? Something like that.

New? Start here

https://itazuraneko.neocities.org/learn/guide.html

Cornucopia of Resources

https://itazuraneko.neocities.org/library/cor.html

Old thread: >>819064

Post last edited at

 No.855818

File: 965e3d0b64c5f00⋯.png (72.7 KB, 674x380, 337:190, kanji.png)

How are we all going, /qajt/? I've started on my kanji, all going well I'll have all the jouyou down within the next 3-4 months.


 No.855827

It would be worth preserving this link from the last thread, as I've found a few manga on it aren't on any of the other sites.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1jcn7Z4tbdRblEGnq6jzfW_sc-cOekTSs_N8z7mqb8Uc/edit?usp=sharing


 No.855848

File: 13e2edac81b497f⋯.png (68.97 KB, 666x363, 222:121, Untitled.png)

>>855818

I'm going slow and learning writing as I go.


 No.855875

Here's an archive of the previous thread https://archive.fo/Mj3Tp


 No.855876

Is https://my.mixtape.moe/rwlraz.apkg good for my first vocabulary deck?

Recently finished radicals, was thinking of doing RTK but after reading a few stories I dropped the idea.

I really need to catch up on writing, I haven't even practiced the kana. There are sheets for practicing kana, but how do I practice the radicals and kanji? Are there any boxed sheets available?


 No.855907

File: 034ce94e9ad1e4e⋯.pdf (692.06 KB, 456754.pdf)

>>855876

Would something like this work?


 No.855910

>>855907

はい、ありがとう。


 No.855912

>>855876

Post the page you found that deck at.


 No.855914

>>855912

In one of the older japanese learning threads. An anon said that core2k is shit and I should use this instead.


 No.855919

>>855914

>An anon said that core2k is shit

W-why did anon say that? Is it actually shit?


 No.855922

>>855919

Something about not being useful for reading.

Might as well re-ask my question:

Core2k gives me 2-3 different cards for the same kanji with the different readings. How am I supposed to answer this? Should I recall all the possible readings?


 No.856012

>>855818

A few years in and I still don't quite know all the jouyou kanji, simply because I haven't come across them all yet. So much for being "daily use."


 No.856017

For those programs where you draw the kanji, and the program tries to predict which one it is, which do you think is the best?

I tried using this one a few times, but it doesn't ever work out well.

>https://kanji.sljfaq.org/


 No.856023

>>856017

Just use google translate and then copy the kanji into a proper dictionary if you want to look it up. It seems to have the best recognition and generally gets what you're trying to draw even if you're extremely sloppy.


 No.856028

File: 518070401d29be7⋯.gif (1.27 MB, 344x193, 344:193, mori2.gif)

>>856023

The google one actually works. Thanks.


 No.856206

>>855922

Why doesn't your flashcards have a sentence with them? You should recall the reading that fits the example sentence.


 No.856210

>>856206

It doesn't show the sentences on AnkiDroid. Looks like I'll start using the desktop version from now on


 No.856266

File: 660fa867b9a2fbd⋯.png (63.83 KB, 242x264, 11:12, I can understand why.png)

Another entry to the category of "Hiragana that should not be used in tiny fonts".

Admittedly this example is very well placed considering the context.


 No.856337

File: 30320eb6bbe54d3⋯.jpg (76.66 KB, 834x834, 1:1, radicals and shit.JPG)

I really think a lot of you guys tend to get fixated on these crappy pre-made Anki decks and overlook the value of creating your own cards. If you're beholden to whatever selection of material the creator of the deck decided on, you miss out on targeting the content you actually want to be familiar with the most. Assuming you want to understand a particular anime and then more and more in general -- and you've already studied essential grammar -- and want to focus on vocab and kanji in context, you're better off to...

- get the jap subs .srt files for a show (copy them and convert these to .rtf if needed)

- get a video player that allows dual subs

- watch an episode and simply cut from the given file the lines with unfamiliar material

- paste into a new anki card, put the needed definitions below the sentence, make sure to add furigana to the kanji in the sentence

- change the deck settings so the maturation rate is all the way down to something like 1 day --> 2 days --> 4 days etc. for "good" instead of the default settings that will give you shitty retention (I like to set the again/relearn time to 2 hrs. so I can take another look not too long after but without these cards jamming up the current session like default)

- review the cards and occasionally rewatch the episode so you're getting both reading and listening practice (slow the playback way down for parts you can't really pick out)

You're all intelligent Anons I'm sure, but getting caught up with radicals and kanji by kanji is a waste of time and you're getting put into a very boring and clumsy way of learning by the kinds of people who promote AJATT or some gimmicky books and shit. Your brain picks up individual kanji with basic pattern recognition if you just see it enough in context (the on/kun eventually, too), and even if you want to be a Masterclass weeb who can write a lot of kanji, it's not like you'll even have the proficiency to write advanced sentences with 21 stroke kanji and the like until you can read well enough, so 調子に乗るな!and progress in a way that isn't pointlessly painful. What I've been working on feels sort of like riding a bike with training wheels at first (and I only have that "bike" to begin with because I put in the effort to learn the grammar): as I review these sentence cards I can move the definitions to the reverse side when they're more familiar, then remove the furigana, and slow down the fast parts in the spoken dialogue until I can read it in anki without aids and listen to these segments then the whole episode without either English or Jap subs. The plan is to keep targeting the material in shows I like instead of vocab and kanji chosen by someone else, and keep building a base until I can understand more and more material -- you have to accept that there's a lot of vocab and kanji out there that you won't recognize for a while, and you can fill in those gaps when you're ready. So the goal is to go bit by bit with one episode of an anime at a time, and keep at it so that eventually those training wheels aren't needed. But seriously, fucking study grammar, Anon.


 No.856381

>>856337

You are assuming that none of these anons are already reading mango or even novels on the side.


 No.856455

>>856337

A lot of people certainly do take it a bit far with the pre-made decks, but they have their use with getting people to the point they even feel comfortable reading or just giving you something for days when you don't feel up to it. But yeah, if you want to play video games, you've got to learn video game vocabulary. And what better way than to play video games.

I don't like your Anki setup at all. Watching with dual-subs instead of just Japanese. Sentence cards over a more simple, less time-consuming card format. Relying on furigana instead of demanding proper recognition of the word. Wasting more time further reviewing the same sentences outside of Anki. The listening practice bit I get, but just go for new content instead. Same idea for sentence cards. The extra time could be better spent on new material, reviewing and learning new things simultaneously instead. My cards have sentences, only so I can see the word in context if I forget it. Never had trouble with the default settings myself, I wouldn't recommend changing them until after seeing how one does with them.

Additionally, as far as radicals and kanji go, studying them isn't always a waste of time. I'm the type who could see a kanji numerous, like 50+ times, and still not be able to tell it apart from similar ones. But having learned some radicals (a minor time investment) and taking the time to write it out and review a couple times and I have no trouble whatsoever. It's really only a few minutes time spent per new kanji I see.


 No.856576

>>856455

>I'm the type who could see a kanji numerous, like 50+ times, and still not be able to tell it apart from similar ones

Seconding this. For me, I have tried 'shortcuts' all over the show, and I didn't begin growing competent with kanji until I started explicitly studying them. Furigana is also a mistake.


 No.856602

File: bfede63757dbd57⋯.jpg (27.33 KB, 400x519, 400:519, really makes you think_.JPG)

>>856455

Fair points in there, and I should have made it more clear that I specifically have a problem with people being told to go straight into pre-made kanji decks and using those as core study material. That and AJATT, where you're likely to trick yourself into thinking you're studying by mass audio immersion when it's mostly just extra noise of things you don't understand. Studying kanji just for the kanji is okay in moderation, yes, especially when you need to distinguish between similar ones or focus on some that aren't clicking, as you said. Context will normally sort that out for you, though.

>Relying on furigana instead of demanding proper recognition of the word.

The point was to remove it once the time is right, so I don't see how this interferes with proper recognition over time.

>Watching with dual-subs instead of just Japanese.

Dual-subs just for the first run, actually.

>The extra time could be better spent on new material, reviewing and learning new things simultaneously instead.

This is something I've been wondering about for a while: how do you balance reviews and good retention with adding new material? At what point does the amount of new material become so much that it interferes with retention? It'll definitely vary from person to person, and I still prefer retention over a lot of new stuff even if it takes longer because I think it's worth it in the long run. My whole study approach went through a lot of different forms before it became what it is now, and it's no more that a suggestion to other Anons, but I just don't like the idea of "learning" things only to have no idea what they are a month or two later. That's essentially what default Anki did for me.


 No.856608

File: 957ec9ca53b51c0⋯.jpg (58.43 KB, 663x552, 221:184, wow look at you.JPG)

>>856604

So... instead of poor you're uninformed. Enjoy the complete waste of time.


 No.856616

>>856604

You wasted your money, if you keep going with it you'll waste your time too.

t. tried using that crap at one point


 No.856797

>>856602

>The point was to remove it once the time is right

If the goal is recognition without furigana, it's always the right time.

>Dual-subs just for the first run, actually.

Unless you're re-watching for personal enjoyment or re-watching something you didn't fully understand prior, I don't see the point of anything beyond a first run. There's also the fact that a lot of translations, official and fan, can be sub-par and give you the wrong idea at times.

>how do you balance reviews and good retention with adding new material?

This, I don't think you really need to worry about so much. Just read, watch, listen and enjoy yourself. The more input, the better. Some words just aren't going to stick the first time you see them. Especially if you pick something difficult for your level. Your first novel with 250+ words you've never seen, read over a few days. Good luck remembering all that. Never mind all the new stuff you heard in that radio show driving to work and what else have you. You can make a judgement to add some of them (I wouldn't recommend adding every new word you see) to Anki or to try learning solely through natural exposure. Maybe take a moment to write it or something to boost your chances at that. But you've just exposed yourself to 250+ words, some of which will stick, while others won't. You might create fragmented memories of some that will build up over time through more exposure. Plus you see words you already know in new and varied contexts, strengthening your understanding and memory of them. One of the best ways to boost your memory of words, I think. Meanwhile had you just re-watched some anime instead, you've mostly just fortified your memory of words you've already learned. Maybe preventing yourself from forgetting some things.


 No.857386

File: 970490a468ac3b6⋯.jpg (139.03 KB, 1280x720, 16:9, mpv-shot0196.jpg)

File: ddff2f8fb8b08bd⋯.jpg (146.92 KB, 1280x720, 16:9, mpv-shot0197.jpg)

File: 4af42d5a685f184⋯.jpg (144.05 KB, 1280x720, 16:9, mpv-shot0198.jpg)

To think that at the beginning of the year I didn't even understand this visual gag. Every /a/non should learn Japanese.


 No.858729

File: 70de3ff97c5ceb8⋯.gif (285.57 KB, 1000x1000, 1:1, Japanese Knots.gif)

Things you wish people told you when you started learning Japanese:

>wa, ka, ze, and most particles effectively function as vocalized punctuation marks that don't have an equivalent in english (but emojis seem to be helping bridge the cultural gap)

>xxxxx-ma*sen*~=not xxxxx, zenzen~=not, really not


 No.858819

>>856337

>>856602

In all honestly know it all beginners like you are probably more annoying than retards who don't know how to use a search engine to save their life.

It's good that you're motivated but it's really fucking obnoxious; the op exists so autists like you don't have to lay out your half digested nuggets of wisdom.


 No.858856

>>858729

I'm confused, isn't this one of the things you learn very early on? Especially the -masen part seems very basic.


 No.858857

>>858856

I think it depends on whether you got through Tae Kim like you're supposed to or not.


 No.858889

>>858819

Thanks, it wouldn't be an /a/ Japanese learning thread if it didn't have the worthless faggot who keeps getting mad at random posts for no reason.


 No.858931

>>858856

I meant the definition/use of zenzen (it means 'not at all' or 'absolutely') was really confusing to me until I made the -masen connection, not that -masen means 'not'. I have heard of 'ka' being described as a question mark, but I've *never* heard anyone else describe 'wa' as a colon. eg

'Ore no kansou wa kuso da.' is typically translated to 'As for my impressions, it's shit.' It makes things a lot easier for me personally to interpret it as 'My impressions: it's shit.' That's not the best example but it really helps with more complex topic phrases.

I also think of 'ne' as '~' ('Kirei desu ne' = 'It's pretty~') and 'ze' as sort of a '-' ('Iku ze!' = 'Let's go!-') essentially a sharper more masculine ~. Instead of translating 'xxxx ka na' to 'I wonder if xxxx' I translate it as 'xxxx?~' which makes more sense to me for some reason.

I think of 'to', 'ya', and 'mo' as '&' or a comma.

I've never seen anyone else describe 'yo' as an '!'.

Most of the common prepositional particles can be usefully described as ':' ('Nihon ni youkoso!' = 'Japan: welcome!', 'Gakkou e iku.' = 'School: I'm going.').

It starts breaking down when you get to the particles that label the part of speech like 'ga' and 'o' but thinking of particles as punctuation marks is useful for me to understand 90% of the Japanese I read and hear. I don't know if I've never seen this strategy before because no one else has thought of it or because I'm the only person it actually helps.


 No.858935

>>857386

Wait until you realize there's a ton of wordplay that can't really be translated well unless the fansubber leaves a TL note.


 No.858942

>>858931

>I don't know if I've never seen this strategy before because no one else has thought of it or because I'm the only person it actually helps.

Anon I seriously doubt this is actually helping you. Your long term goal is to understand the language itself and not have to rack your brain while you parse every clause into approximated translations. Many of your interpretations are flat-out erroneous, particularly your ideas on 語尾. Go read about grammar more.


 No.858944

>>858942

>Your long term goal is to understand the language itself and not have to rack your brain while you parse every clause into approximated translations perform live fan-subbing.


 No.858947

>>858931

This is complete nonsense. -masen originated as a shorthand for masenu which is derived from mairu and suru. You could have easily checked this before posting.


 No.858950

File: 129d9c11dd4224e⋯.png (2.13 MB, 2968x1725, 2968:1725, 129d9c11dd4224ed09d21bafc8….png)

>>858942

I already played through most of Segagaga and Moon Remix RPG without translation patches and I watch lighter anime subbed in Japanese these days, so my method unquestionably worked for me. Guess it takes a special kind of autism to learn Japanese the way I did in 4 years. I don't ever talk to Japanese people and I can't write it for shit, but I understand it written and spoken, which is pretty much all I needed to reach my goal of playing untranslated games. Keep doing what works for you though. You'll get to where I am one day.


 No.859108

The itazuraneko site seems to be undergoing restructuring. Could a meido please replace the OP links with these?

https://itazuraneko.neocities.org/learn/guide.html

https://itazuraneko.neocities.org/library/cor.html


 No.859113

File: 265104ce96c6648⋯.png (31.93 KB, 370x320, 37:32, 5098190@2x.png)


 No.859132

Have any of you done the JLPT and if so, do you think it's a good way of measuring your Japanese or is it just a way to scam losers like me for money?


 No.859138

>>859113

>>859108

Leave just the root URL in the op.

The COR doesn't need to be directly linked to, it's superseded by the # 漫画 and # 小説 for anything but misc. beginner utilities. Those are already linked to in the main guide, anki startup guide and dojg deck guide.

https://itazuraneko.neocities.org/ speaks for itself and those who can't find their way from there should be in a classroom and not taking an autodidact approach.


 No.859139

File: 1ce47fefcad7dcb⋯.jpg (86.97 KB, 1280x720, 16:9, not kirakira.jpg)

>>859138

>should be in a classroom and not taking an autodidact approach.

Where do you think we are?


 No.859158

>>859139

This is the autodidact approach, anon. There are no 先生 here. Just 後輩 and 先輩.


 No.859355

File: 159a825144d84ae⋯.png (36.25 KB, 624x418, 312:209, I_Did_It.png)

Haha! I finally did it in under 3 minutes without having to rely on guides/without missing any, /a/! I'm so happy! Now to practice in different fonts because I've seen さ and み drawn about a million different ways.


 No.859356

>>859138

>>859139

I mostly learn autodidactically, but I consult a tutor once a week for an hour or two for like $20-$30/session. Not him, but I kind of agree that hearing the language from another person (a native speaker is better) is very important. In fact I might start seeing the tutor twice a week.


 No.859375

>>859356

You can listen to native speakers at home, for free.


 No.859396

>>859375

Yeah, but they don't respond back to questions.


 No.859410

>>859396

Look through the guide again. There is skypech.com

But I get what you are saying. Sometimes it's easier and faster to just ask a question and get an answer instead of sifting through grammar references or guides for an hour only to be uncertain if you understood correctly.

It might also seem rude to ask people on skypech to correct your Nip.

>>858729

That folding guide looks very useful. I like to carry around books and so on, but I don't want them to get dirty or crumpled on the way, so some of these techniques might come in handy. The Bin Tsutsumi also look very useful.


 No.859425

>>859355

I still fuck up some of the katakana like メ and ヌ. One day I'll get around to thinking of a proper mnemonic for those.


 No.859432

File: 7462df248b2336b⋯.jpg (74.74 KB, 1280x720, 16:9, confused_looking_anime_guy….jpg)

Sorry but I just can't find it. What is a good program to translater the text from an image? Both web add-on and regular programs are welcome.


 No.859435

>>859425

Turned on their sides, メ and ヌ vaguely resemble a curved M and N, with some stretching of the imagination. Hope this helps.


 No.859559

>>859425

ヌ looks like a nut-cracker

メ looks is an "extension" of ノ (no). ノメ ->(g)nome.


 No.859560

>>859355

If it takes a while to get used to the different styles and forms the kana can take, don't feel too bad. Some won't click unless you're really comfortable with them.


 No.859634


 No.859795

>>857386

I know nip and I don't understand it. What the fuck?


 No.859813

>>859634

Thanks a bunch.


 No.859861

>>855876

Neat.

>>855912

I made that deck but I only come here when I notice the link here on itazuraneko's site (that's why I'm responding like a week or two later).

Core 6k is bad because the order got tampered with by someone who didn't and still doesn't know Japanese (ever notice how almost every variant of 見る is introduced one after another?), the material its frequency list was based on was very narrow, and the way that frequency list was generated was low quality.

You can certainly learn Japanese after using Core 6k, but it's very easy to make something better.

This is less of a problem for the very most common words, like the first 500 or 1000 of Core 2k, but the way Core was made means that even this stuff has random weird words in it (like ミーティング, お手洗い, 留学生), and there are places where multiple senses of the same word have multiple cards, introduced right after each other (近く, 近い, 近く again). Once you get to the end of Core 6k it gets really bad (電卓, 内閣, 展覧会, 俳句, 同封, 同姓, 通帳, 虫歯, 日韓, 日の丸, 初詣, 蛋白質, and 雛祭 are NOT top 6k words), and it's missing a lot of extremely common words that just don't show up often in the particular material it was based on like 危うく and 天使.

All of those problems are a lot less problematic if you just use Core 2k instead, which is understandable if for some reason you want the audio files or example sentences. Absolutely no reason to go on to the remaining 4k words of Core 6k though.

In my opinion, shared decks are a lot worse than mining or just learning through exposure after the first several hundred or one thousand words, no matter how good the shared deck is, so there's not much point in doing a shared deck beyond the first 1000~1500 words. That's why it's only 1250 cards long.


 No.859870

>>859861

Around the 1000-2000 mark, I swear that there is a deliberate to teach similar looking kanji one right after the other. Like there would be words that are group by theme, and then it would introduce 余る out of nowhere, followed immediately by 除く. Maybe this one is a bad example because they are at least somewhat related, but there's a pair of these every lesson for God knows how long.


 No.859975

>>859861

Your deck is terrible, fuck off.


 No.860006

>>859861

I'll try using it on the side and see how it goes.


 No.860050

>>859975

You don't know Japanese.


 No.860257

>>860050

No man can claim to know Japanese, unless he is Japanese himself. And at that point a man is no longer a man, but a Jap.


 No.860264

I'm about done memorizing the kana, and I've started looking at the different methods of learning kanji. From what I've seen so far, anki decks are the absolute worst method for me and kanji damage seems like it would be the closest to what fits my learning style. Now, my question is this: is there a learning method that's done more through osmosis? What I mean by that is a method that would teach children/elementary school kanji, and then I'd start reading books aimed at young children. Reading books would both increase my vocabulary and teach me grammar. Rinse and repeat this cycle by increasing the "age range" of the kanji and books I'd go through. In other words, learn kanji aimed at kids 5-8, read books/manga aimed at that age range, then go up to 9-12, 13-17, and then adult stuff.


 No.860272

>>860264

What would probably work well for you is first learning the Kanji primitives. Then when you read, you can at least see what components a Kanji is made of. I tried the "osmosis" method without studying the primitives, and while I could usually recognize kanji by context, it became very difficult when it came to kanji that looked similar. If I tried remembering any kanji I've read, I only remembered incoherent blobs. Understanding the components of Kanji will help you remember them much better when reading.


 No.860340

>>860264

Don't worry about the age thing too much. Kids stuff is still going to have adult kanji and words that use it, just with furigana or in kana and some of that adult stuff will be a lot more common and useful to you. Not sure if you were going to, but I'll just go ahead and suggest that you try to learn a word or two which use the kanji you're learning as you learn them as opposed to learning a bunch of kanji alone at once. Once you've developed a foundation knowledge of vocabulary, kanji, and grammar, you could start reading stuff of any age range, looking up and trying to learn what you don't know. It can be a lot easier to pick stuff up in actual context like that, instead of trying to fully prep yourself for it prior.


 No.860493

>>860264

I don't really recommend emulating the Nip approach to learning kanji; it's shit. It's based on pure rote learning of large messes of lines and no real logic to any of it. They only learn like 150 kanji per year that way. The reality is to properly read 日本語 you need the kanji - all of it (I'd advise going with the ~2000 character jouyou set). Since you're going to need the whole shebang anyway, I would suggest using the superior gaijin radical-first method. You'll spend less total time on the kanji (3-4 months w/ ~30mins-1hr per day if you learn 20 a day), with the tradeoff being you won't be able to start reading as quickly. It's up to how much willpower you have and whether you are able to commit to the effort required. I would advise going through Heisig's RTK. I would also advise using an Anki deck based on the book, but you don't seem to like it very much. Kanjidamage seems similar to Heisig's approach, so you could probably use that instead of the RTK. I haven't tried it so your mileage may vary.

Regarding learning grammar, the best thing to do is start by reading through Tae Kim. While 'osmosis' is a nice selling point for Rosetta Stone-tier crap (on the grounds that they are trying to sell learning Japanese easily to the lazy and gullible), it it very slow and you are prone to picking up incorrect assumptions with your own guesses about what the linguistic rules 'might' be. The human brain can pick up a language via osmosis, if slowly, but it's much faster to have someone give you the correct answers as to what the rules are outright. Go through either Tae Kim or another grammar guide if you don't want learning grammar to take forever.

To be clear, there's going to be a point where you can't take any more shortcuts. Learning Japanese will take at least an hour a day for a good year to be able to start reading even low-level stuff, no matter what approach you take. Many people have a number of false starts because they come to that realization a month or two into their first attempt and balk, but depending on how much you want to be able to read untranslated Nip content you may be able to commit to the effort required and push through. I say this because it's not worth wasting your effort if you're looking for a get Nip quick scheme, no such route exists. You can learn Japanese, but it will take a long period of consistent work and the willpower to back it up.


 No.860597

>>860493

>Learning Japanese will take at least an hour a day for a good year to be able to start reading even low-level stuff

Total bullshit. I'm reading Yotsuba after three weeks of study and I definitely could have started even sooner without any great difficulty. While I certainly don't know every word, I can read a huge chunk of it totally unassisted and I can read all of it with a dictionary at my disposal. There's no good reason to wait an entire year unless you're learning at an excruciatingly slow pace.


 No.860610

>>860264

Rote memorization is necessary but it's only one part of the learning process. We could fight for centuries over the best Anki deck, or even if you need an Anki deck, but success at recalling flash cards or whatever does not equal fluency. Flash cards will allow you to match definitions to kanji, but they won't create that connection in your head that allows you to recall the word or kanji when thinking of the concept. Seeing words pop up in something you're reading/listening to is what takes you from concept -> English -> Japanese and vice versa to concept -> Japanese. That's why immersion is also a necessary part of your study. Add grammar study and I think you have the three pillars you need to target.

My recommendation: For immersion study, don't go for Japanese learning materials made for Japanese, but rather go for something you enjoy at the appropriate level. Do vocab study on the side, focusing first on words you pull from things you read before ones you haven't yet. Give Tae Kim a quick skim beforehand so you recognize grammatical structures even if you can't remember what they mean. You can go back and read the appropriate section when you spot them. I think it sticks faster this way for a beginner than slow, careful study.


 No.860613

>>860597

Now this I can't believe. Three weeks? From knowing absolutely no Japanese? I am not convinced your 'huge chunk' is as huge as you're trying to imply, unless you mean that you spent eight hours a day studying it during those three weeks.


 No.860898

>>855827

All of those including some newer volumes are on the op web site.

https://itazuraneko.neocities.org/library/manga.html


 No.861070

>>860898

スマイルスタイル is missing from the other sites, I do believe there were a couple of others missing back when I parsed everything into a text file, but I don't recall what they were. I can check exactly what's missing when I get home.


 No.861071

>>861070

I had to make a copy of that spreadsheet to view it but yeah, you're right.

スマイル・スタイル 筋肉☆太郎 1~3

This series and any others should be added to the earlier linked page. If they aren't on other sites they're probably retail rips and decent quality.


 No.861087

>>860613

Though Yotsuba is mostly short sentence slangy exclamations from the eponymous green child from what I remember, I find it hard to believe myself unless the person in question is high-IQ NEETmaxxing, especially since they say they can read a significant amount unassisted, which is ridiculous. I'd like to hear about their study method. Perhaps they've stumbled upon some great method.

Nobody is "waiting" an entire year to learn, either. It's been deemed the most difficult language to learn for native English speakers by the NSA and FSI for good reason.


 No.861190

I'm having a lot of trouble translating a phrase:

戰爭全始める理由し、経緯のほとんビ全てが、性の敗北によつた愚行だ。

Specifically, I am not sure what it means by

性の敗北

Can anyone give any insight? I don't really have a lot of experience with moonrunes yet, and this tidbit has seeminly come out of nowhere.


 No.861203

>>861190

Post the page. It looks like you may be using OCR so I'd just like to make sure what's what before I comment. In the future when asking about something specific you should generally post full context and not just a single line, since it can affect the answer you'll get.


 No.861207

File: 47a3005c6369e37⋯.jpg (453.34 KB, 2937x4275, 979:1425, 04_0032.jpg)

>>861203

It is the 10th line from the right.


 No.861213

>>861207

>戰爭全始める理由し、経緯のほとんビ全てが、性の敗北によつた愚行だ。

戦争を始める理由と経緯のほとんど全てが、惰性とくだらない理由による理性の敗北によった愚行だ。

That was a pretty far cry from what was actually written. If you feel you have to rely on OCR but you can't pick up on when it's churning out crap (which is probably often) I might recommend trying something easier for the time being.


 No.861216

>>861213

Since It is a photo and I cant copy directly I just grabbed the text quickly. I should have read it over before I posted it. My bad. Its pretty late here.


 No.861391

File: 1ca70c7064345c4⋯.jpg (195.99 KB, 2994x1078, 1497:539, 13d2202ff480fed08d7bec4b04….jpg)

>When you start reading something above your current knowledge level and you realize how far away you are.

How do you anons deal with this feeling of frustration? I can read some things just fine but I've recently picked up a particular webnovel that's a bit more complex than expected. Lots of unique kanji. Been adding some words to my anki deck, but it feels kind of daunting. Should I keep pushing through?


 No.861402

>>861391

With some things they dump the difficult stuff on you right at the beginning and drops off from there. Keep at it a bit or even just take a quick glimpse at some later pages and if you really feel it's too far above your current level there's no shame in coming back to it later. It can be frustrating at that point, but if later when you come back to it and it's become noticeably easier, that's a nice feeling.


 No.861874

File: f8baa8122d03039⋯.png (467.07 KB, 608x547, 608:547, f8baa8122d0303937f07625815….png)

Would it be ok if I turned down the amount of Kanji I learn through anki because I've gotten to the point where I forget the kanji a day later do I feel like I should focus on reviewing what I already know for about a week before proceeding. I'm also more worried about this becoming a problem because I finally got back to the point where I was before I originally gave up kanji.


 No.861887

>>861874

>Would it be ok if I turned down the amount of Kanji I learn through anki

Yes that's fine, so long as you make sure to keep the reviews up to date.

If you're having problems forgetting things you know I'd suggest turning down the review interview to 80-90%.


 No.861891

>>861874

Start learning vocabulary if you aren't already. Actually being able to use those kanji for something other than Anki will help you remember them better.


 No.862102

>>861874

If there's anything that Anki likes to drive home with their statistics, it's that consistency beats out exceptional individual effort. I absolutely recommend reducing the daily card count if it keeps you consistent. Even on those days where you remember just before bed that you didn't study, just put together a custom study where you look at 5 or 10 cards.


 No.862116

File: 1ef84ddb38f4ec6⋯.png (42.34 KB, 421x521, 421:521, ri.png)

>>861887

>review interview

*interval

This one. I have mine set to 75% because I kept forgetting cards.


 No.863301

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

>>862116

>GANBARE


 No.864060

File: e6fb79a0aaccb5d⋯.webm (5.68 MB, 640x360, 16:9, ハチ MV「マトリョシカ」.webm)

What the hell does half of this romaji mean?

>カリンカ

>マリンカ

>フロイト

>ケロイド

>パレイド

>マレイド

There's not even entries for most of these on jisho.


 No.864073

>>864060

I assume they're Russian words. The song is called Matroshka, there's slav runes and the first one is probably Kalinka.


 No.864143

File: 98b99744f4e69f8⋯.png (84.44 KB, 526x249, 526:249, 98b99744f4e69f88f6e0d97757….png)

Trying to translate something but not sure what's appropriate here. Translator told me that "ツ!" can be put as "–!!" but for this I don't know if the "ヒ"changes it or not.

Can I get a second opinion?


 No.864144

>>864073

I guess that makes sense. I thought there were a few English ones mixed in there though.

>>864143

ツ is like an abrupt stop in these cases, so when it's "ツ!"the "-!!" works. In this case, since there's a "ヒ" it'd be like a quick surprised scared "hi".

I'd say change it to "Hii!!" or "Hih!!" just so retards don't think she's enthusiastically greeting someone.


 No.864146

>>864144

Thanks.


 No.864164

>>864143

Girl be making a skreee-glottal stop. Like a suddenly surprised squeak. Equivalent to "eep!" In Angloais.


 No.864345

File: 1bddb082cbd33a0⋯.jpg (13.46 KB, 43x158, 43:158, おわ---ッ.jpg)

I just need one more sfx translated and this doujin will be good to go.

A few very unreliable sources say that this should be either "woah!!" or "awesome!!" but those don't sound right, what do you think?


 No.864346

>>864345

I don't think there's anything to "translate" with this kind of vocalization. You could just keep it as "OWAAAAAAH!!" and that would look fine to me.


 No.864347

>>864346

Alright, thank you anon.


 No.864419

File: 579fcb78453f3ad⋯.png (521.7 KB, 1000x1399, 1000:1399, zcredits.png)

>>864144

>>864164

>>864346

Thank you Anons, I made sure to credit you guys for the help in this release.

>>>/u/49132

>>>/u/49135


 No.864943

File: 35f9dbcfb56b197⋯.png (2.13 KB, 29x267, 29:267, 謎鳴き声.png)

Help. How do I translate [angry hydra noises]?


 No.864946

>>864943

That's just a string of glottal stops. Maybe it's meant to sound a bit like a low growl or something.

I don't think it's possible to render the same sound using English onomatopoeia - I'm not even sure it's possible to pronounce it in Japanese - so I'd just put your own attempt at an appropriate sound effect there.


 No.864947

>>864943

Actually, on second thought, reading those as "tsu" rather than glottal stops, it could be intended to be a kind of hissing sound too.

I'd go with whatever feels best when written in English.


 No.864951

>>864947

That was my thought since that anon mentioned it's some kind of snake.


 No.865057

File: 6d754381c817e42⋯.jpg (193.86 KB, 850x677, 850:677, 1528595652372.jpg)

So I'm in a pickle. I didn't do my reps enough back over the summer/only really started learning Japanese these last couple months. I'm going to Japan at the end of October, but I'm going out in the sticks for a couple days while I'm there where I know basically no one will speak a lick of English. At this point I know my Hiragana/kinda know my Katakana, and maybe a handful of barebones basic phrases like asking what something is or where something is or how much it is, etc. I've started learning verbs/verb conjugations but that's simple shit. I guess my question is, since it's as late as it is and I fucked myself over anyways (but there's no way in hell I'm canceling my trip this late in the game), would I be better off focusing my time into my oral Japanese so I can ask for help like a filthy gaijin more while in Japan, or would my time be better spent trying to memorize as many "practical" kanji for things like trains and buses as possible? I'm more worried about my autodidactic studies here in my free time. I've got a native Nip tutor once a week that has me on a set schedule of "what to learn" each week, but she's insistent on me learning writing even though I don't really give a shit about writing right now, and she gets mad if I use simple phrases to get a point across instead of the more complex phrases.


 No.865059

>>864947

Yeah, if it's a hydra then it's probably supposed to be a hissing noise with the "u" dropped from "tsu."


 No.865062

>>865057

Learning to ask questions is as important as being able to understand the answers, so be sure to study the most common answers as well.

Your tutor sounds like a wise woman and a good bully.


 No.865078

>>864943

I always figured it was something like the person is shocked to the point that they are not vocalizing anything coherent, like they're just exhaling sharply. I'm trying to imagine a better way to explain this but failing. It's not really like "ahh," but more like when you're at a complete loss for words, and all that comes out of your mouth is the sound of air in your lungs being squeezed out by your diaphragm. This also explains the repeated glottal stops, like you're closing your glottis as well: "ahhhhh... ah-ah-ah." I'm sorry if this sounds cryptic.

Disclaimer: I have no idea if this is correct, but it's worth considering.


 No.865375

File: 007f77d2bfe2b1b⋯.png (325.61 KB, 1499x790, 1499:790, 速読.png)

>>855789

For anyone interested, there is a little bit of a book club going on a the moment. It was created by an anon on 4chan's /int/ board. You can read more about it on the below page:

https://itazuraneko.neocities.org/library/dokushobu.html


 No.865376

>>865375

>4chan

I love bookclubs, but I won't go anywhere near that.


 No.865403

>>865057

I would advise working on whichever is your strongest suit since you only have a few weeks to prepare. If you feel more comfortable asking questions then go all-in on that. If you prefer reading then start learning kanji that will help you navigate.


 No.865415

>>865057

If you're just trying to read signs you could always fall back on machine translation. Google Translate sucks at grammar, but it's generally pretty good at recognizing kanji/words. If you know a reasonable amount of grammar (ie. most of the "essential grammar" chapter of Tae Kim) then you should be able to manage.

I'd focus your studies on conversational Japanese for those times when there aren't any written signs.


 No.865809

File: dccdb47ce06fb80⋯.png (32.64 KB, 1769x166, 1769:166, kyushu expression.png)

What is your favorite Japanese expression or idiom?


 No.865838

>>865809

Yojijukugo are pretty cool.

>良妻賢母


 No.865876

>>865057

I would suggest going through Tae Kim. You can get through that before the end of the month easy. Do your best to remember the kanji he introduces along the way, but it's not a big deal if you forget some.


 No.865878

>>865809

屁をひって尻窄め


 No.866040

>>865809

Where did you pull that from, Anon? I'd like to see what the 'Sentences' link goes to.


 No.866054

僕は日本語がだめだ

Seriously though, are there any tricks for remembering Kanji perfectly? I’m only about two months of studying in (on the side for fun) and I can remember the more common Kanji and how to write them with the correct stroke order but past a certain limit there are Kanji I can recognize when reading things but if I were asked to reproduce the character I would have no clue how to beyond a crude approximation of it


 No.866059

File: cb7c42cbe03e140⋯.jpg (4.01 KB, 250x250, 1:1, 5230170.jpg)

>>866054

Kanji is mostly just pictures given names. If you look for what they represent then it becomes easier. For example the kanji for people is just one person leaning on the other, a symbol of community and your fellow man.


 No.866061

>>866054

Break them down into simpler parts (radicals), give each part a meaning, and make up memorable stories/images which link the meanings of the parts to the meaning of the whole.

A good example of this can be found in the "Remembering the Kanji" books.


 No.866063

>>866054

>but if I were asked to reproduce the character I would have no clue how to beyond a crude approximation of it

This is a different skill than recognition of meaning or pronunciation and it needs to be practiced in itself or it will not sink in. Fortunately we have IME to act as a crutch, at least.


 No.866064

>>866054

I focus on memorizing the kanji as they occur in words. Since the only place I'm ever going to be writing any Japanese will be online, I don't worry about remembering how to write any of them, except for certain characters which I like, such as 無.


 No.866067

>>866054

Just focus on recognition rather than writing since you'll probably use it to read rather than give lectures in a Japanese university.

I don't think they'll even require handwriting from a gaijin in an office job.


 No.866076

>>866054

>remembering Kanji perfectly?

Heisig's Remember the Kanji will give you the ability to recognize and reproduce. The process is as >>866061 describes. This is of course, if you want to learn the kanji completely. It seems like some anons get along fine with just recognition skills.


 No.866125

>>866076

>>866067

>>866064

>>866064

>>866061

>>866059

Wow, thanks for all of the responses, anons. A few of you pointed out one thing I really haven’t been doing – studying and identifying the radicals and instead trying to remember the kanji as a single unit. I feel like getting a better hang of the radicals will start to make the kanji more recognizable and memorable for me. みんな、ありがとう!


 No.866126

File: 0c2a3da72d980cc⋯.gif (484.35 KB, 250x250, 1:1, love this sushi.gif)

>>866125

頑張れ、名無し君。


 No.866308

土曜日ですか


 No.866311

>>866308

いいえ。金曜日ですよ。


 No.866312

>>866061

I've been trying out the radical anki deck instead of RTK and it's helped me understand why a lot of words the way they are.


 No.866343

>>866311

金曜日か。私はまごまごだた。どうもありがとうアノン先生。


 No.866352

>>866343

>だた

だった.


 No.866354

>>866352

ごめんごめんアノン先生。


 No.866358

>>866354

とんでもない、相棒。


 No.866361

>>866354

>>866358

Sorry if I just confused you here -- とんでもない has an alternate meaning of "don't mention it/not a problem."


 No.866362

>>866308

今日は土曜日ではないが明日は土曜日だ。(今日は十月五日だ)


 No.866388

Why the fuck do we have 3 fucking Japanese threads now?

one on /vg/

one on /v/

one on /a/

Why do you split the Japanese learners among several threads?


 No.866391

File: 35b90e39b6755a3⋯.jpg (100.23 KB, 870x720, 29:24, a04000484c000937a4c7c5ea05….jpg)

>>866388

You're not from around here, are you?


 No.866396

>>866391

I'm not browsing 8ch /a/ no, but I know of your Japanese thread and that it differs from the video game japanese thread.


 No.866409

File: b225754e1e249fa⋯.png (1.09 MB, 1245x1209, 415:403, ......png)

>>866396

怪しい!


 No.866544

>>866388

/vg/ is full of fags, /v/ is /vg/ minus tism, /a/ is g/a/y and /animu/ is is for sissies.


 No.866554

>>866388

We were here first, go ask those knockoffs.


 No.866560

>>866388

Not our fault the other boards jack our shit.


 No.866565

File: 8e9b5c86e37aa84⋯.gif (4.89 MB, 369x390, 123:130, 8e9b5c86e37aa8463443acc5b6….gif)

>>866544

>/v/ is /vg/ minus tism


 No.866570

>>866565

Autism is good though.


 No.868031

File: e2972be23ecd28e⋯.gif (1.58 MB, 343x338, 343:338, 3hdVhwI.gif)

Hey anons, how did you overcome the barrier of trying to read a book with very little vocabulary knowledge? I've been trying to read よつばと!but due to my limited vocabulary it takes me almost 15 min to read one page. If I read RtK1 will it get any better?

Having to memorize vocabulary from flashcards just sounds so tedious that I just can't bring myself to do it


 No.868037

>>868031

It gets better after the halfway point, when vocabulary starts to repeat itself a lot. Just keep pushing.


 No.868038

>>868031

Reading more will make it better. If you don't want to cram vocabulary via flashcard, cram it via reading. RtK may help you recognize kanji better if you have issues with that, but other than that it won't do much in the way of vocabulary aside from giving you keywords to make mnemonics from. For difficulty recognizing kanji, a much quicker alternative would be simply learning radicals.


 No.868076

>>866560

This.

I learned recently that they sometimes even had "Waifu Wednesday" threads in /v/. Whatever they do there, I don't know.


 No.868078

>>868076

Those threads keep going back and forth between being allowed and being banned. Guess it's banned again because there were some /v/isitors in this week's waifu thread.


 No.868112

>>868031

I would advise going through the RTK first before anything else, but there's a Yotsuba Anki deck that covers everything present in I believe the first two volumes of the manga (and nothing else). If you're determined to read something ASAP then that might be the way to go.


 No.868747

>>866362

今日はジュー抹殺日、毎日と同じ。


 No.868959

今日は金曜日です。金曜日は週末ですか。


 No.868975

File: 79bb0a1d6cae3d1⋯.png (64.69 KB, 233x215, 233:215, chiruno.png)

>>868959

いや。まだまだ。


 No.868979

>>868975

金曜日じゃないか。


 No.868980

>>868979

金曜日は週末じゃない。週末の前日だ。


 No.869046

>>868980

どこ君はですか。ここ金曜日は週末です。

This is already straining my nip, both in vocabulary and in grammar.


 No.869071

File: a8edc214b70836f⋯.jpg (170.64 KB, 656x602, 328:301, __cirno_and_hakurei_reimu_….jpg)

>>869046

一つを教えてあげる。

<どこ君はですか。

>君はどこですか。


 No.869075

>>869071

僕は馬鹿です。今わかります。 ありがとうチル先生。


 No.869077

File: 38c8b50aa7ea83d⋯.webm (1.88 MB, 960x540, 16:9, fuckin jeez.webm)

>このスレの流れはこれ


 No.869080

>>869046

この質問は意外に難しい。

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E9%80%B1%E6%9C%AB

>辞書によって指し示す範囲に揺らぎがある。NHKによる全国調査(1999年)でも「土曜日と日曜日」という回答が半数を占めつつ、「土曜日」「金曜日と土曜日」「金曜日の夜から日曜日の夜(または月曜日の朝)まで」にもそれぞれ1割超の回答があった。

NHK did a poll in 1999. About 50% said the weekend was Saturday and Sunday, but the answers "Saturday only", "Friday, Saturday, and Sunday", and even "Friday night to Monday morning" got over 10% each.


 No.869081

>>869080

If my nip ever got as good as yours I would be a happy man.

それはインタレスチングです。


 No.869083

>>869081

頑張れ! 俺たちはいつも応援してるぞ!


 No.869085

File: 3ddca5f579f672d⋯.png (475.77 KB, 1125x498, 375:166, my heart.png)

>>869083

I didn't understand a single word.

わかりません。ごめんなさい。


 No.869090

>>869085

My bad. "Do your best! We're always rooting for you!"


 No.869091

>>869080

日本では本当にそんなに難しいかな。

漫画家やブラック会社でのサラリーマンすればすぐに簡単になるんだよ。

>しゅうまつ? 何それ美味しい?

>>869081

>インタレスチング

金髪碧眼で巨乳の外国人少女キャラじゃないならその言葉は止めておくべきと思う。


 No.869094

>>869090

ありがとうアノン。

>>869091

money something something girl something something?


 No.869107

>>869094

Install rikaichan. It'll make your life easier.


 No.869126

>>869107

"Unless you are a blonde blue-eyed cow-tits foreigen little girl [read as: Filthy Gaijin whore or カレン] that word should have been "思う" (to think)"? I actually have Yomichan installed, but I don't want to get into the habit of using it before I got the basic grammar and most basic vocabulary down.**

If I got this right, >>869091 was suggesting that I use "思う" instead of "インタレスチング", because using japanizations of English terms is haram. Isn't 思う a verb though, or does the う make it an adjective (thoughtful)?


 No.869134

>>869126

That と思う was just there to say "I (don't) think".

"Unless you are a blonde blue-eyed cow-tits foreigen little girl, I don't think you should use that word."


 No.869142

>>869134

わかります。ありがとう。


 No.869159

>>860898

となりの吸血鬼さん3巻 is also missing from Itazuraneko.


 No.869230

>>869159

It's not really a comprehensive collection. There's a number of series missing volumes for which scans are available including some stuff in the ongoing section that's complete. Assuming the 一覧表 section is ordered by date added then they haven't been added anything to the moemanga base actually. I'd sure like to see them add more stuff as well as add the ability to view series most recently added to the database or updated with cover pages which moemanga had though. I mostly use those shitty ddl sites for downloading manga and they can be pretty annoying.


 No.869407

>>869230

No, I mean volume 3, which is on the old site, is not on the new one. There's up to volume 4 on the ddl sites, but it's very badly compressed and watermarked trash.


 No.872097

File: 096f018dcac85b6⋯.jpg (376.01 KB, 800x1066, 400:533, cirno_embarassed.jpg)

So I'll be leaving on my trip next week, and I've mostly been learning textbook-tier Japanese combined with conversational from the tutor. I'm in for a world of hurt, but that's my own fault for only starting on my reps a few months ago and being obstinate about not learning phrases/insisting on learning "proper" instead of true conversational Nip. My background with other foreign languages has taught me that learning phrases is the devil of foreign languages because you eventually reach a point where your brain is trying to process information in both the foreign language and your native tongue simultaneously. I suppose what I'm getting at is, being fucked aside because I've invested a little under $4,000 into this trip and I can't turn back now (but plan to get out in the sticks), my tutor and I use the Genki textbook (second edition) for studying, but I know it's going to be a crux going forward with my lessons when I get back since Genki is a sort of middle ground between phrase-learning and proper learning. Obviously I'll have to continue learning Genki in my tutoring lessons, at least putting in the bare minimum effort for it, but my end-goal is being able to very roughly translate a simple light novel in 2-3 years from now (I don't have anything in mind, that's just my goal), and be able to visit Japan again and speak semi-fluently by the year 2022. I think I have two rough ideas about how I can efficiently go about this goal short-term, because it's the short-term planning goals that add up to being able to accomplish the long-term dreams.

1) Continue with Genki work heavily/plan on jumping int Genki 2 since we're beginning to work with simple Kanji (keep in mind Genki displays furigana for all kanji so this is a bit of a crutch) combined with beginning self-study in the form of the Yotsuba translation method. Doing Anki on the side casually, using the core2k deck.

2) Taking anki seriously with the goal of immediately building up my kanji by doing the core2k deck and Kangxi Radicals deck at the same time, while saving most conversational work/Genki work for minimal effort side-learning.

I think both methods would be effective. I think the first method would be the "easier" method, but at the same time I will very likely be out-of-state by the end of January and be forced to locate a new tutor wherever I end up (which is easier said than done- I have a going rate of $20/group lesson right now or $40/private lesson, but most tutors want $50-$100/lesson if they're not through your local Japanese-American Society branch). I think the 2nd method would be the more meticulous/harder method with less immediate results, but I think it would stunt me conversationally which is a big worry.


 No.872156

Out of complete boredom I entered my waifu's birthday into the Japanese wikipedia.

And guess what:

I could translate the first sentence (after looking up 90% of the words). This gave me such a massive confidence boost. I know the first sentences of Wikipedia articles are always written in an easy language, but it's nice to get some feeling of progress and success.

Also: Her birthday flowers are water-lilies. If I ever get a house with a garden, I will have to excavate a pond and plant water-lilies.

>7月7日(しちがつなのか)はグレゴリオ暦で年始から188日目(閏年では189日目)にあたり、年末まであと177日ある。誕生花はスイレン、ヒオウギ。

7月7日(The 7th of July) は[topic marker] グレゴリオ(GuReGoRiO) 暦(Kalendar) で[location marker] 年始(new years)から [from marker] 188日目(188 days counted) (閏年では189日目)(189 days in a leap year) にあたり(not entirely sure what this means, but my guess is that it translates to "it falls on", which would make sense considering the context), 誕生花 (before the end of the year) あと(remainder) 177日(177 Days) ある (to exist)

So if got this right, it's: "The 7th of July falls upon the 188th day after new years (189 in case of a leap year) in the Gregorian calendar, there are 177 days from the 7th of July to the end of the year."

I have since started to hit the random article button on the nip wikipedia and translate some random bits of information. It's very encouraging, and you learn something along the way.

Also: yesterday's image of the day on the nip Wikipedia was "4ストロークエンジン", which made me giggle, because you can imagine a Japanese person trying to pronounce four-stroke engine as "fouru sutorooku enjin".


 No.872158

>>872097

>Continue with Genki

Don't be afraid to take a peek through some other textbooks on the side too, I probably went back and forth between like 4 textbooks when I was first learning.

>Yotsuba translation method

Use the Yotsuba reading method instead. Translation will only slow you down. Most of your time spent on Japanese vs. 50% or less depending on how you go about it. Thinking about how to phrase things in English won't help you get good at Japanese.

>while saving most conversational work/Genki work for minimal effort side-learning

I wouldn't suggest shoving grammar off to the side too much as it's pretty important, but personally, I don't think practicing conversational output is very important as a beginner, with the exception of practical purposes for your trip. It's my belief that exposure to Japanese speaking > trying to speak Japanese. Familiarizing yourself with the way Japanese speak to some extent before trying speak yourself so that you may mimic natural speech when ready. Directly shadowing someone speaking is mostly fine, but I don't think there's much need to try speaking by yourself. I'm aware there's probably plenty of people who disagree with me on that though.

>very roughly translate a simple light novel

Again, I suggest just reading it in that case. Nobody wants to read a bad translation. Ability with the languages is the most important factor to a good translation. Wait until you're confident enough to not call it a rough translation. That could still be in 2-3 years depending on how hard you work for it.


 No.872175

File: 9713e2235786f0e⋯.png (280.45 KB, 853x480, 853:480, Tomoko_greasy_hair.png)

>tfw have regressed to only ever using a keyboard for "writing" unless it's my name

>tfw haven't properly written beyond one or two sentences in probably 3-5 years

>tfw have been forced into handwriting Nip characters for various assignments

>tfw hands cramp up from only a few minutes of writing

I feel like a terrible person.


 No.872183

>>872175

The only time I handwrite moonrunes is when I'm bored during unrelated lectures. I remember the only time my hands started to hurt from writing was when I was in middle/high school and had to write walls of text fairly quickly during literature classes.

Moonrunes are designed to be drawn in ink with a brush. Try holding the pen or whatever you're using more like a brush and imagine you're doing just that. It feels a lot more right when you do it, at least for me.


 No.872186

>>872183

My teacher comes from the school of thought of "if you can't write it, you have no business reading it."


 No.872240

Writing certainly gives you another avenue to remember parts of the language by, even if it's just jotting down hard words. The best thing writing has done for me is give me a way to learn how to break down kanji by radical and now I almost never need to look up stroke order. I admit it can distract however, especially in the midst of many new words. Good strategy is to experiment with many flavors till you find the best for you.


 No.872314

>>872156

>"4ストロークエンジン", which made me giggle, because you can imagine a Japanese person trying to pronounce four-stroke engine as "fouru sutorooku enjin"

More likely "yon sutorōku enjin" which sounds even funnier


 No.872527

私わ腹黒い人を成るか?


 No.872534

>>872097

>doing the core2k deck and Kangxi Radicals deck at the same time

Not a bad idea actually, if you do the radicals first then you might get results almost as good as doing the RTK.


 No.872556

>>872527

>私わ腹黒い人を成るか?

The topic particle is written は and なる is an intransitive verb, so say に, not を. I think (僕は日本語があまり上手ではない!) you’re trying to say something like “Am I becoming a mean person?” so I would say

<私は腹黒い人になるか。

I could have totally butchered this so let me know if I fucked up and I’ll stopping being a dumb gaijin


 No.872561

>>872556

>The topic particle is written は

Shit, I knew this. Why did I blank so hard?


 No.872563

>>872556

>私は腹黒い人になるか。

You'll generally see "becoming [い adj.]" as "-く なる." Having the 人 in there isn't needed and Japs wouldn't bother to add a word they could freely omit. Going on a little tangent here, but they like to leave things implied and avoid repetition unless it's explanatory words or particles like んだ, which seem like filler for an English-speaker but are commonly used. This is why I think studying how to deal with sentences and paragraphs where subjects and objects aren't clear is underrated, which is when grammar, particles and basically their way of thinking comes into play and knowing thousands of kanji won't help you one goddamn bit. Japanese is hard.


 No.872564

>>872561

Don’t sweat it anon, I do it a lot too, especially when sounding it out in my head and writing simultaneously.


 No.872566

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

>>872563

>You'll generally see "becoming [い adj.]" as "-く なる."

Huh, I guess you’re right now that I think about it. A notable example of this that came to mind is from Hibike! Euphonium when Kumiko repeatedly says “上手くなりたい!” (thirty seconds on in embed). Sage for potential doublepost


 No.872571

>>872566

>“上手くなりたい!”

In case anyone reads this without watching the clip and is used to seeing 上手 as じょうず and うまい without kanji (which happens, but it's possible to write with one of several kanji), this is going from 上手い to 上手く, while a な adjective like じょうず would become 上手に to make it an adverb.


 No.873302

File: 385bfde8cb74092⋯.png (51.1 KB, 106x374, 53:187, Untitled.png)

What are these commas next to the words??

I'm guessing they are just pauses


 No.873306

>>873302

They're placing emphasis on the words they're next to. Depending on the situation, it could be an important point, a pun, an intentional mistake, or simple vocal emphasis.


 No.873314

>>873306

Thanks!


 No.873359

>>873302

Basically >>873306

You can think of them as the equivalent of underline or italics.


 No.873377

Does anyone have pdfs or something of the official JLPT test books? Currently I would like N3 and 2 the most, but collecting them all would be good.


 No.873950

金曜日です。興奮したですか。私は勉強学生じゃなかった。病気です。何「ベカウウセ」ですか。

Oh god my Kana is slipping again.


 No.873953

>>873950

>勉強学生

Kill me.


 No.873967

File: ae295fe3a5ba927⋯.jpg (20.32 KB, 524x345, 524:345, 何.jpg)

>>873950

>何「ベカウウセ」

Could it possibly be that you mean "because" and forgot what dictionaries are for, or did you make me say BE KA UU SE out loud to make me feel silly?


 No.873995

>>873953

I understood what you were getting at with it, but it just sounded a bit strange.


 No.874050

>>873967

はい。


 No.874319

File: eb6da47393b766b⋯.jpg (284.03 KB, 1920x1080, 16:9, mpv-shot0061.jpg)

I've been trying to watch anime with Japanese audio and Japanese subtitles and write my own translations for it, using jisho to look up unfamiliar kanji and phrases. Even with that, it's hard as hell, and every minute or so of runtime I make a major blunder or two, swapping one word for another that changes the entire meaning of a sentence, or completely ruining the punchline of a joke. (I check my work with the English subs)

For example:

(日本語) 人形使いの殺し屋 誕生?

(Mine) Is this the first time you've killed someone with a doll?

(Subs) Is this the birth of a puppet master hitman?

(日本語) ねえねえソーニャちゃん おわんにシジミいくつ入ってた?

(Mine) Nee nee Sonya-chan, want a bowl of clams?

(Subs) Hey, Sonia? How many clams were in your bowl?


 No.874320

File: f8d0a1f77b66ef3⋯.gif (2.35 MB, 750x720, 25:24, f8d0a1f77b66ef30413ea34dfc….gif)

I tried running a second dry cycle today on the Japanese washing machine (because it didn't dry my clothes enough) only to have used an OCR on the wrong button and proceeded to soak my clothes causing the machine to malfunction when I went to dry because the clothes were too heavy. So I had to sit and twist out the water and stabilize the washer/dryer by hand for about ten minutes until enough water had drained out that the machine didn't immediately error out. I also had to spend an extra 500 yen because I couldn't figure out how to open it/assumed it would unlock when the power died.

Friendly reminder to do your reps so you never end up a poor soul like this filthy gaijin, /a/.


 No.874323

File: 6a44406128c3214⋯.png (78.65 KB, 180x265, 36:53, 6a44406128c32140c182a29dd5….png)

>>874319

It's good that you're posting here so we can bully you for being so far off. Humiliation is a great way to learn.

Since you mentioned Jisho, here's a protip: Jisho is alright as a dictionary but sometimes for things that are more subtle or the meaning is hard to get across in English you might want to also check out

>https://ejje.weblio.jp/

It's a Japanese to English dictionary but it's easy to search and it uses a different database than Jisho so you can get a sort of second (and most likely more accurate) interpretation of words and even phrases. It even gives you example sentences with the stuff you look for in both languages so you can understand them in context as well.

Its sisters sites I found to be pretty useful too.

>https://thesaurus.weblio.jp/

<Thesaurus, gives lots of synonyms for terms and all their different meanings

>https://www.weblio.jp/

<Japanese dictionary. Not very useful if you aren't already pretty good at understanding the explanations, but even popping them into Google translate might explain a little bit


 No.874334

>>874319

It'll be more efficient for you to not go to the trouble of writing your own translations. Just try to understand it plainly when you can. You shouldn't need to directly compare English and English to know you were off. Less time spent on English is more time spent on Japanese. That should be how you want your thought process to go with the language anyhow. When using translations as an aid, keep in mind they can be wrong too and get loose with the translations sometimes.


 No.874378

Are some links broken on https://itazuraneko.neocities.org/learn/guide.html? Some hyperlinks just take me back to the homepage.


 No.874384

>>874319

You need to learn Japanese, you're not going to learn just from looking up words, especially since Japanese grammar differs significantly from English in some respects


 No.874437

>>874320

君は日本にですか。


 No.874441

>>874437

>君は日本にですか。

はい。


 No.874446

>>874441 (off by 三)

I know you are the fag who posted >>874436, but would you mind reporting a little more on your language experiences so far?

How hard is it to make yourself understood if you forgot a certain phrase or word for example?


 No.874449

File: 1b19fe8db59fb46⋯.jpg (134.46 KB, 762x613, 762:613, 1b19fe8db59fb460fe244f3d85….jpg)

>>874437

>>874441

「はい。」じゃないよ。 最初のアノンはなんの動詞をつかえなかったぞ? 正しくには、「日本にいるんですか」とか。あと、他のアノン達を「君」と呼ぶのはどうだろう。「あなた」や「お前」までの方がマシかもしれない。

いいか? これは先輩からの大切なブリーだからな?良く覚えとけよ? ていうか俺もそんなに得意じゃないと思うが、まあ、俺にも直すとこがあれば是非俺をブリーして欲しい。


 No.874450

>>874446

Well, I forgot どこ so I ended up just saying "toire?" with a blank face and the restaurant owner understood what I was saying. You can partially fuck up your particles and basic meaning will still get across, like "Nihongo wakarimasen" without the ha/ga and they'll understand you don't speak the language but might at least understand a few words. I just say the physical number (Japanese) of the trains at the station and they understand what I want, etc. I've found if you can write out the basic information you want in Hiragana next to the English on a piece of paper, they'll understand, so I suggest memo pads as a means of communication. I'm sure I sound like a retard, but they seem to appreciate it. I had one lady who thought I didn't know my numbers, so she listed them off by single digits for the price of goods at one store, which was pretty funny. I don't have plans today, but the fresh seafood market closes at 2PM and it's 6:40 now/tram starts running in ten minutes, so I gotta head out.


 No.874452

>>874450

In general, hand gestures/head gestures and broken phrases are much more effective in Nip than, say, Russian or Chinese where the meaning won't get across.


 No.874464

>>874449

>ていうか

貴様!黙れ!「っていうか」と言いやがれ!


 No.874534

>>874464

どっちもいいんだが。そういうのは単に自分が言いたい方で言いえばいいって事。例えば「だろう」の代わりに「だろー」や「だろ」も使ってもどちも正解、ただの口癖の違いだ。ほら、「どっち」と「どち」も同じだ。


 No.874542

File: c34acb270dfe196⋯.mp4 (279.77 KB, 772x776, 193:194, 1536800319276.mp4)

File: 688ad8bd0442d7a⋯.jpg (111.02 KB, 800x560, 10:7, ssf2x.jpg)

File: 06ab4a85f506b3d⋯.jpg (196.64 KB, 828x1200, 69:100, teach.jpg)

How do I learn kanji?


 No.874545

>>874542

Learn hiragana first because I can almost guarantee you haven't done so. After that, get familiar with Katakana and Tae Kim's grammar book.Then either use anki, yotsuba method, find a tutor,or read the OP because it answers this question five different ways.


 No.874547

>>874542

Anki decks, obenkyo, kanji study. One or more of them and/or writing in a notebook. Certainly finding things to read too. Manga with furigana is preferable for easier at first.

Also this >>874545 I don't know about Tae Kim's grammar book. I see people like to talk about it, but it seems like a meme to me. Of course learning grammar is also important, though.


 No.874549

>>874547

Tae Kim's Grammar book covers a handful of Kanji that you can learn quickly.


 No.874630

File: f2e069dcd07829a⋯.jpg (29.47 KB, 519x340, 519:340, 23fsas.JPG)

日本語は意外に易しいよね


 No.874644

File: 18eca94513bc14b⋯.webm (2.65 MB, 1920x1080, 16:9, stagbeetle.webm)

What does the beetle say? Sounds like いじゃす or いじゃし. I tried looking it up but didn't get anywhere.


 No.874654

>>874644

It's いただきます but crudely contracted. Like an ありがとうございます into an あざーす.


 No.874668

>>874534

>言いえば

言えば。


 No.874796

>>874437

A bit late but wouldn't

>君は日本にいますか

be more accurate? Something with に and です doesn't look right.


 No.874797

Is becoming an English-teacher in Japan just a meme or is it actually a good idea? I'm already a linguistics major and was going to start Japanese (officially in classes, not self-teaching) next year and have to do something with the degree so that's the only thing that sounds enjoyable to me.


 No.874799

>>874797

You should probably look up people who've actually done it since I don't think many of us here will know. From what I've heard getting the work visa is a massive pain in the ass and the companies that can actually get you over there are pretty shitty to work for, but once you are there you can find work at smaller, better paying schools that require you to already be in the country. I also heard that you need to be a native English speaker or you basically have no chance, even if you're fluent not that I'm bitter about that or anything.

But again, this is just hearsay.


 No.874812

>>874799

>I also heard that you need to be a native English speaker

Well, at least one thing is in my favor. But thanks for the info, anon. You’re right that if I decide to seriously look into it I should definitely talk about it with people who have experience with that type of work


 No.874826

>>874796

Unless you really need to specify it's that particular person you're talking to, 日本にいますか should be fine, yes.


 No.874945

>>874797

There's an autist on youtube who did it. I follow the philosophy of if you stay longer than 90 days, the portal to Gensokyo closes. English teachers in Japan make shit-tier wages/barely scrape by. You'll be working 60 hour work weeks (after accounting for grading papers and such) for the equivalent of retail manager wages in America, you won't have time to explore Japan or do anything fun because you'll be dedicated to your work and time off for students =! time off for teachers, and you'll generally get treated like shit. It's a good way to find a cake wife, but I can't advocate learning a language to be an English teacher anywhere in the world (unless it's some third world shit hole and you're doing it out of good will), let alone Japan. If you're looking for a place where it'll be appreciated, learn Russian and go become an English teacher in Kazakhstan or Kyrgyzstan. Both are desperate for English teachers and will appreciate your efforts far more/pay you far better (most will even set you up with a house).


 No.874990

>>874644

>>874654

It's こんいちはす you retards


 No.875058

watashi wa hatachi desu

is this correct?


 No.875060

>>875058

In general you can drop the Watashi wa unless you specifically need to state who it is you're talking about.


 No.875305

>tfw too dumb to learn japanese


 No.875313

>>875305

You can do it, anon. Just sit down with the Hiragana, write every letter 100 times (10x10 grids help), say it out loud every time you write it. Only do 5 characters every day and repeat those from the previous days with 50 repetitions (5x10 grids).

Eventually you will be able to reliably point at any character on the Hiragana table and say it's name.

Then you move on to Katakana and do the same.

Then you move on to Kanji and grammar, and you just keep learning the Kanji one at a time. And you just read one chapter at a time, and you will use your newly learned kanji to form simple sentences. Eventually you will have something passable.


 No.875367

So I've noticed that when people say "good morning" here in Sapporo they say "Gozaimassssssssss" and drag out the "s" while leaving the "ohaio" off completely (or only giving it a very unspoken whisp of air at most). Is that a Sapporo/Hokkaido thing or just something I didn't notice back in the mainland?


 No.875368

>>875305

Never give up, anon! My memory has been restructured for years to memorize singing/poetry and simple instruction sets for technician work, so it has a very hard time with symbolic things like Kanji (or hiragana/katakana). My learning rate is slow, but if I can do it, so can you! You're never too dumb to learn a language. Learning a language has nothing to do with intellect, it has almost everything to do with desire to learn and motivation/patience to get through tough problems/think for a second before thinking.


 No.875369

>>875305

The retards that do localizations at CR and other companies managed to learn japanese. If they can do it, so can you.


 No.875375

File: fa7ad40e6ee4860⋯.gif (2.02 MB, 214x255, 214:255, 1471079236339.gif)

>>875367

It's pretty common, especially for people in customer service, to shorten common greetings like that. 「ありがとうございます」 to 「あざーっす」 or just 「あざっす」 is another one.

>>875369

>The retards that do localizations at CR and other companies managed to learn japanese.

It's not always easy to believe that.


 No.875377

File: c117b80d2b34cd4⋯.jpg (34.94 KB, 600x600, 1:1, 602c3c6b481e5ed95c545e2ad2….jpg)

>>875375

Oh, and let's not forget about 「ありがと🍆」.


 No.875398

>>875377

かしこまり!


 No.875435

>>875369

Whenever I remember this fact it really chaps my ass.


 No.876107

"Osmosis" anon, reporting in and sharing thoughts and insights. Got started about 6 weeks ago, and I'm a little over 200 kanji in, using the kanji damage method. I have the short term memory of a goldfish so learning more than 10-15 kanji a day is a waste of time, hence the slow progress (and why I wanted to get into reading asap in the first place). In any case, I feel like I wasted way too much time memorizing hiragana. Shit's used everywhere, and I feel like I see it so often that spending over a week memorizing perfectly could've been cut down to 2-3 days of one to one-and-a-half hour sessions. Katakana doesn't pop in as often, but semi regular review sessions have meant I haven't forgotten all of it. As boring as memorizing kanji is, I'm at least having small bursts of pleasure attaching words I've been hearing from watching anime to actual kanji. A big plus of the kanji damage method is the structure which lets me go back and refresh my memory when learning more complex kanji, or when learning jukugo 熟語. "Oh I haven't seen 子 in a while, I'll go take a few seconds to review it". Feels far more natural than the anki 暗記 method.

How time consuming is it to learn the basics of grammar and conjugation? Do you guys think it'd be worth making a small detour?


 No.876112

>>876107

I think it's a very important step that's much less time consuming than learning a large amount of kanji and that will do more to get you closer to reading ASAP. You need grammar to read but you don't need a thousand kanji to read. I don't think you should just drop everything you're doing to focus it down, but I'd suggest giving it a fairly central role in your curriculum. Once you have basic grammar down there's not much stopping you from giving reading a go. It'll be a bumpy ride, but you'll be on the road.


 No.876127

The step 2 anki guide doesn't lead to the core 2k/6k deck but to the homepage learn/read. pls help


 No.876143

>>876112

>you don't need a thousand kanji to read.

Yes you do. And you'll be reading a lot when you start learning grammar and see example sentences everywhere. Ignore this anon and keep learning kanji, then grind some vocab, then do grammar.


 No.876167

>>876112

You need more to read even the simplest VN because they go above and because they include many more kanji beyond the 2k jouyou kanji.


 No.876168

>>874319

You straight up don't know Japanese.


 No.876173

>>876143

>>876167

You don't need to know them before going into reading. Anon already mentioned that he wants "osmosis" which he thinks is reading stuff meant for kids first to develop a kids vocabulary, so he'll have furigana or less complicated kanji for anything like that. Nevertheless, it's unnecessary because you look up any words or kanji you don't know when reading to learn them. I'll even argue that it's in fact easier to learn them when you're reading and have a practical use for them and that reaching the point of being able to read at a basic level is one of the most important steps in learning a language. At least in my personal experience this has been the case.


 No.876227

>>876168

It's not a good feeling.


 No.876311

File: 13585cf16d9ae12⋯.jpg (75.43 KB, 600x315, 40:21, Kkk.jpg)

>>876227

Keep on practising...


 No.876313

Is there any reason to use anki over drills on any generic JLPT arranged flash card site? Frankly I find all the absurd tracking to be unneccessarily complicated just for doing lazy visual only practice.


 No.876315

>>876313

Tracking doesn't matter over the course of weeks. It's over months that it starts to matter. Anki saves you time in this sense.


 No.876581

File: 30fda010e90d1ff⋯.png (2.74 MB, 1421x1920, 1421:1920, 30fda010e90d1ff5a4739ac825….png)

How would 「いいフレンチ人は死んだフレンチ人」 be read as? I intended for it to be "a good french is a dead french" but the sentence feels awkward somehow.


 No.876592

>>876581

I think yours reads more like "Good frenchmen are the frenchmen who are dead." It's close but I think it might come across a bit clumsy. Also isn't it フランス人?

You probably need to put the idea of "only"ness in there, and 唯一 is what springs to my mind. Not quite sure is this is correct, but:

「唯一のいいフランス人は死んだフランス人」

「死んだフランス人が唯一のいいフランス人」

Maybe something along those lines.


 No.876624

>>876592

It's fine, the top one would probably be more likely to see. You could also say something like いいxは死んだxだけだ or いいxとは死んだxのことだ among other minor variations.


 No.876673

File: d529db69bf46d3f⋯.png (2.8 MB, 1920x1900, 96:95, d529db69bf46d3f1cc0bb1f178….png)

>>876592

>Also isn't it フランス人?

I thought so too, but it's フレンチ on jisho, plus my IME automatically turns ふれんちじん into フレンチ人, but ふれんすじんturns into 触れん巣人, so it's probably wrong.

>You probably need to put the idea of "only"ness in there, and 唯一 is what springs to my mind.

That makes sense, that sentence feels more natural. Thanks, anon.


 No.876743

>>876673

ンス人 is the way to go.


 No.877246

File: 5d0b2a7fdf259a4⋯.jpg (30.62 KB, 686x444, 343:222, [crushing sound].jpg)

>update computer

>break computer

>spend hours fixing graphics drivers

>finally get back into desktop

>KanjiTomo no longer works

I don't think I've ever been so dependent on one small piece of software before.


 No.877280

>>877246

That's probably because of Java.

It's eye-opening, isn't it?


 No.877327

>grind kanji and grammar for several months

>go to the panda, choose something untranslated out of curiosity

>able to properly read >80%, mostly only missing the names

This is an incredible feeling. The orgasm was nice, but the hard work actually showing results is even better.


 No.877362

この頃、寒くなった。僕は秋も冬も大嫌いだ。


 No.877378

>>877362

お前ホモかよ。


 No.877418

>>877280

While typing out this post, I figured out what made it glitch out. I guess I should thank you. It wasn't the program itself crashing or anything, it's that it doesn't play nice when I try to OCR something. Once it starts, I lose control of my mouse and some of my keyboard function, i.e. can't change workspaces on i3. I have to terminate it with my keyboard and restart i3 to get control back. I figured out that it was compton fucking it up. The window transparency effects going haywire should've been a giveaway. I closed it and it works fine now. Before I thought it was GTK because all the scroll bars magically disappeared from every piece of software that uses it, but I guess that's just a separate issue.


 No.877528

How important really is knowing how to write?


 No.877538

File: f7a537f6d61e390⋯.jpg (76.51 KB, 605x685, 121:137, 1504132860758.jpg)

>>877528

If all you want to do to visit Japan and be a dumb gaijin tourist, not very.

For literally every other use of language, I don't know, how important do you think being literate in the modern age is?


 No.877622

>>877538

Every time I actually have to write, I pull out my phone, type what I want there and copy it down. My co-workers don't suspect a thing.




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