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/liberty/ - Liberty

Non-authoritarian Discussion of Politics, Society, News, and the Human Condition (Fun Allowed)
Winner of the 77nd Attention-Hungry Games
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Ya'll need Mises.

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

 No.99042

Should chicagoans and other non-misesian libertarians even be called libertarian?

<Economist Milton Friedman considered Mises inflexible in his thinking:

>The story I remember best happened at the initial Mont Pelerin meeting when he got up and said, "You're all a bunch of socialists." We were discussing the distribution of income, and whether you should have progressive income taxes. Some of the people there were expressing the view that there could be a justification for it.

>Another occasion which is equally telling: Fritz Machlup was a student of Mises's, one of his most faithful disciples. At one of the Mont Pelerin meetings, Machlup gave a talk in which I think he questioned the idea of a gold standard; he came out in favor of floating exchange rates. Mises was so mad he wouldn't speak to Machlup for three years. Some people had to come around and bring them together again. It's hard to understand; you can get some understanding of it by taking into account how people like Mises were persecuted in their lives.

based Ludwig

 No.99054

>>99042

>based Ludwig

What a fucking idiot. If he was a real libertarian, he would have just gotten silently irritated, waited for the moment to be proven correct, and shouted "I told you so!" instead of making a fool out of himself, attacking these people for their beliefs like some collectivist.


 No.99055

File: 1d1eead8f883326⋯.jpg (96.57 KB, 1390x953, 1390:953, aang sees what you did the….jpg)

>>99054

Wow, are you still butthurt about 2008 after all this time?


 No.99074

>>99042

>"You're all a bunch of socialists."

I don't know of anyone else who corroborated that story other than Milton. I think that was a story Milton made up in order to discredit Mises as "an extremist."

>Machlup gave a talk in which I think he questioned the idea of a gold standard; he came out in favor of floating exchange rates

I have a theory that this was not the full story or context. If you read Margit's autobiography, she mentioned that Mises said that, "Machlup knew full well what he was doing." I think Machlup was playing a political game by coming out in support of floating exchange rates, that Mises knew this, and that the reason for Mises' anger wasn't that he threw away the gold standard, but that he thought that Machlup was being intellectually dishonest. Or, that Machlup actually DID believe in the gold standard, but was saying otherwise publicly for immoral reasons.


 No.99241

>>99042

Of course. David Friedman and Bryan Caplan are most definitely libertarian despite not being Austrian.


 No.99242

>>99241

>Bryan Caplan

isn't he the guy who tried to "debunk" Austrian economics?


 No.99243

>>99242

He was, and it was pathetic. If you have a strong methodological foundation, then Caplans essay is an annoyance to read. There isn't even much to learn from it. I have heard the theory that he left Austrianism behind to flock together with more mainstream scholars.

Nevertheless, him and David Friedman are libertarians, I'd say. Whether you are a libertarian or not is a matter of what policies you propose, not really of the ideology and methodology behind it. At least, I would say so. Doesn't mean they aren't lesser libertarians, if they are less principled about it.

As for Milton Friedman, I would not call him a libertarian. Same with Hayek. They were classical liberals, perhaps, or whigs, but not libertarians.


 No.99244

>>99243

Caplan is a liberal who is mostly annoyed the (neo-)liberal program isn't being instituted radically and fast enough for his liking FYI.


 No.99245

>>99241

>Bryan Caplan

isn't he the guy who tried to "debunk" Austrian economics?

>>99243

>As for Milton Friedman, I would not call him a libertarian. Same with Hayek. They were classical liberals, perhaps, or whigs, but not libertarians.

Milton and Hayek both wanted UBI.

milton is believe is a self professed neo liberal. Hayek also believed there should be a central bank. I think you're right about Hayek being a classical liberal though


 No.99246

>>99245

Hayke had plently of radical policy proposals .e.g denationalizing money but he's still regarded as the more "respectable" Austrian.


 No.99249

>>99246

I have to wonder whether Hayek actually believed the shit he said about things like the minimum wage, or if that was tactical counter-signaling on his part to keep him well-respected in academic circles.

>>99245

> Hayek also believed there should be a central bank.

You have a source on that? It's the first I've heard of this, and considering his work on ABCT I find it hard to believe he'd ever advocate for a central bank.


 No.99290

File: d53ef7c17fa66e3⋯.jpg (65.86 KB, 1065x800, 213:160, pinochet_reaction.jpg)

>>99042

>Milton Friedman: "some economists… like me [advocated for a progressive income tax*]"

*context is correct and there is no exaggeration




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