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Catalog (/liberty/)

Winner of the 11th Attention-Hungry Games
/jp/ - You must be this high to post

/bane/ and /just/ stream on Saturday October 21
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Welcome to /liberty/!

Welcome to /liberty/, your board for the discussion of politics, society, news, and the human condition without authoritarianism (fascism, full-on communism, etc). The board's philosophy is simple - welcome all discussion from non-authoritarian viewpoints, light moderation, and most importantly of all fun.

We've seen SJWs, we've seen the far right, and we've seen the far left and we've said no, stop this madness - the moralizing authoritarians who seek to control society and shape it to their whims and test out their vague theories would enslave us just to feel that society was better. At /liberty/ we believe we would be best served by sticking to the path we've been on for so long, that of personal liberty.

WELCOME

See the image - if you make the cut, you'll be right at home on /liberty/. Even if you are an authoritarian (far left or far right), you're welcome to join us - just don't expect to be taken seriously.

Rules

1. Global Rules uber alles.

2. Spamming can result in a short ban. In the event of raids, discussion threads will be stickied to weather the storm.

3. Rules are lame, don't make me make more and don't whine for more moderation unless it is absolutely necessary.

4. This board has an actual topic and it's not fetish porn. Content that is clearly beyond the pale of the board's topic (fetish porn, clop, gore, etc) will be removed. If you need these things, they are a mere three clicks away; you can even get there one-handed.

Board Policy Vis-a-vis…

1. "Shitposting"

There is no such thing as shitposting. It's a vague and subjective concept that boils down to "irreverent posts or things I don't like," and therefore makes a bad yardstick for moderation. If you want discussion without fun, may I suggest another board?

2. "Shills"

While shills may exist, the intense paranoia and schizophrenic moderation and community policing of /pol/ shows how fear of these legendary creatures can completely disrupt a community. If someone is posting something that you disagree with, even if they're paid to do it, you still have the mental faculties to decide if their argument is a good one or not, or to double check their sources. Calling another person a mythical shillicorn does not automatically defeat their argument. As far as moderation policy goes, shills do not exist, even if they're real in your mind.

3. Authoritarians

If you're a fledgling fascist or bunker-loving communist, you're welcome to stick around - you cannot be banned for your opinions on this board. Just don't expect to be taken seriously - the reason this board exists is because we already know we don't like authoritarianism, and want to discuss things without authoritarians sticking their noses into everything as they are wont to do.

4. "I Called You X, I Win"

Simply calling someone a fascist/communist/authoritarian/statist/shill/Jew/Nazi/etc. does not "defeat" them. Git gud.

That takes care of the important stuff. This sticky is subject to be updated anytime!

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Resources for Liberty

Help to compile a list of resources (preferably free) about non-authoritarian political thought. If you want to see something added, make a thread to discuss adding things to this list and I'll edit it in here if it's good.

Our list so far:
Please note that inclusion on this list is not an endorsement of a work. What you do with this information is your choice.

The Online Library of Liberty
http://oll.libertyfund.org/
Find hundreds of writings, books, essays, etc. on classical liberal thought.

Mises Institute
http://mises.org/
Find dozens of free books, audiobooks, and lectures on libertarian thought from an Austrian school perspective.

The Anarchist Library
http://theanarchistlibrary.org
A massive collection of anarchist literature.

Under Construction - Help build this list!

General Resources
Project Gutenberg
http://www.gutenberg.org/
A compilation of free, out-of-copyright books and texts.

Librivox
https://librivox.org/
A compilation of free, out-of-copyright audiobooks created by volunteers.

iTunes Podcasts
History: https://itunes.apple.com/us/genre/podcasts-history/id1462?mt=2
Government & Organizations: https://itunes.apple.com/us/genre/podcasts-government-organizations/id1325?mt=2
News & Politics: https://itunes.apple.com/us/genre/podcasts-news-politics/id1311?mt=2
Find podcasts with ease through iTunes. Listen to them on the way to work, playing vidja, etc.

iTunesU
Use iTunes to navigate to the iTunesU section to have access to university lectures and programs.

Interesting Reading
Works that are not necessarily about liberty, but may be of interest.

Marxists Internet Archive Library
https://www.marxists.org/archive/index.htm
A massive collection of Marxist literature.
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Investing in Africa

What financial investments could I look into that would eventually lead to a decline in Africa's birth rate? Birth control pills, DIY vasectomy/abortion kits, etc.

I'd pay solid dollar just to have less niggers in the world tbh.

R: 32 / I: 9 / P: 1 [R] [G] [-]

Market Fundamentalism

>Open up a book I downloaded

>"The Limits of the Market"

>Look at the list of figures

>Something about market fundamentalism

>nope.jpg

Who the fuck came up with this shitty term? I'm honestly at a loss here. It implies that we're taking on blind faith that the market works, when we have dozens of large treatises that meticulously lay down the principles of our economic theories. Unsurprisingly, the author of the aforementioned book doesn't mention Mises, Hayek, or Rothbard, but he does mention Milton Friedman. These cowards pick the easy targets, then complain why there's no hard prey. Of course Friedman cannot make a strong case for capitalism when he's so busy making concessions left and right to the government. Isn't that to be expected? That's like trying to dissect socialism while only reading pamphlets of social democrats.

I also like the "pendulum" in the beginning of that novel. It's like the author is saying:

>Look, I don't say that capitalism is bad! I'm only saying that sometimes, we need capitalism, and sometimes, we need a strong government to spread our buttocks, I mean, to save the economy.

>Let's not go to any extremes! We can compromise! How about we steal fourty percent and not fifty percent of your income?

I'll take faggots like that serious when they actually let the pendulum swing both ways, when they don't use their pragmatism solely as an excuse to increase the size of government and actually propose that we eliminate the income tax, privatize elementary schools and cut subsidies to large corporations every twenty years. But of course, they never do that. Even now, when the government takes fucking half of all your resources, they'll claim that it's atrophied.

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What do you anons think about red market?

>No NAP

>No Golden Rule

>Real free market

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I'm kinda black pilled about the world fam. Not wanting to varg out completely but I don't see good things on the horizon for the West. Europe continues getting enriched, the USA might face a civil war within a decade, Africa and the Middle East are pumping out babies and immigrants while Israel is expanding.

Media orchestrating a total hysteria, like they did in pre WWII times, people in academia that should know better are talking absolute gibberish because they're blinded by ideology.

Oh yeah and meanwhile feminism and lgbtq are ruining gender relations completely, which only further weakens the morale of people. All while banks and governments are taking away your shekels.

Commies are scum, the right is impotent and delusional and libertarians are meme lords that should simply call their ideology X because it could stand for pretty much anything.

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this board is literally KiA/Sargon of Akkad incarnate

With a dash of imageboard flavor

Prove me wrong faggots

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how does one convince a european that rights aren't granted by the state

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is it true that generally speaking niggers more than cumskins love watermelons and kfc chickens? why is it like this?

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/liberty/ memes

Post your political/liberty related memes

I need more

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Second Amendment Appreciation Thread

I envy you, Murricunts. I really do.

>Tfw your government has an official policy to keep the number of weapons down, regardless of how bad crime is getting

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Debt: The First 5000 Years

Since we were discussing this book in another thread, I thought I'd just bring this up. In his book, Graeber makes an exception for the Mengerian theory of currency development wherein he states that barter only precedes currency in situations where trade occurs between strangers or in a society which had just lost usage of a common currency. The second caveat is exceptionally perplexing, as it seems to fly in the face of his early anthropological accounts. It would logically follow that a society with prior knowledge of currency would first decide upon a medium of exchange by consensus rather than having one spontaneously arise through barter. Graeber never asserts that this is the case–quite rightly, since the anthropological data would contradict it. However, in such circumstances, barter must first occur in order to establish market values of goods so that a salable medium of exchange may subsequently arise, regardless of prior knowledge of currency, c.f. cigarettes in POW camps. Such processes occur quickly, as barter economies are otherwise doomed to byzantine commodity exchange rates. Thus, Graeber's caveat is meaningless. There is no reason for this not to be the case in primitive societies that predominantly use credit. It would be impossible to establish a currency without knowing what the exchange rate between multiple commodity debts, effectively necessitating a barter economy of IOUs. Graeber thinks that this doesn't occur because of an "everyday communist" spirit inherent in such primitive societies. If this were indeed the case, mankind would've never advanced past very basic Neolithic settlements, since resources would be allocated in complete disorder as nobody would be able to determine their values through exchange. Ergo, you get an equally jumbled mess as that observed during a protracted barter economy. I understand that even the most ineffectual means of social organization can work for a small enough commumity, but for such a social unit to have made up the majority of human prehistory seems implausible. Plus the "interaction between strangers" that he brushes aside were hugely important for establishing trade and disseminating cultural practices. Could somebody from /leftypol/ explain how this doesn't completely contradict his theory? I'm gonna need something more precise than the economic relations being "transformed."

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Ayn Rand's Personal Library Auction

Anyone here who can make out what the scribbles in the video say? Though it annoys me how someone would scribble on books like that, even with a pencil, I still wanna see her reactions to Bureaucracy.

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Marxism is ___

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i love this

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Tor General

General thread for Onion Relay folks.

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why are states with more economicaclly unequal population having lower social mobility?

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Liberty and economic videos

The left just can't wrap their heads around these concepts.

Also I seem to can't respond to this thread >>69534

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I lean much more towards libertarianism than the average /pol/ack. And I miss when there used to be decent debate on the board. But explain this, faggots:

>Support BLM

>non-whites dindu nuffin

>gays need more gibs

>illegal aliens deserve citizenship

>attention whore Snowden is a patriot

R: 59 / I: 7 / P: 2 [R] [G] [-]

what are your thoughts on colonialism?

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Spanish Civil War

If this was going on and you HAD to join one of the sides and fight, which would it be and why?

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Can you be Catholic and libertarian?

Not sure if this should be in >>>/christian/ but as a libertarian, it seems very hard to rationalize capitalism being accepted by the Vatican.

Excerpt from the Catechism.

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Marxist Literary Criticism ruins everything

Why is it that Marxism is the only political philosophy that has an extant school of literary criticism? Reducing a work of literature to a contextualized sociopolitical narrative seems to completely neglect the aesthetic or entertainment motive that underpins most works of art. Maybe my mind just has not been "liberated" enough to enjoy Marxist realism liberated from my sense of joy and curiosity, more like.

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WHY WON'T THE GOVERNMENT JUST LEAVE ME AND MY SHIT ALONE

I'M NOT FUCKING WITH ANYONE ELSE

I'M NOT HURTING ANYONE

WHY DOES EVERYONE KEEP TRYING TO STEAL MY MONEY AND SHIT

WHY DOES EVERYONE KEEP TELLING ME WHAT I CAN AND CAN'T DO

FUCK

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What is /liberty/ Reading?

I haven't visited the board in a while, but I'm glad to be back. So, what are we all reading (or watching, or listening to) in terms of libertarian literature? Recently, I've been going through Omnipotent Government in my spare time. Seems interesting, though I've only just started. Also listening to the embedded video currently. What about you guys? Anything good?

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So what's the incentive to innovate and make something new if copyright/trademarking/etc doesn't exist and some established megacorp will instantly produce what you came up with more efficiently? Then the whole market will come to a standstill.

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If he wasn't dead/hiding in Belize, would 2Pac side with Trump or Antifa?

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hi cucks, it has been a long time from when i shut your asses up in a discussion, so i decided to visit you again so to look how much have you improved.

what i want is a list of the incoherences, errors and uncertainities within the Marxian School of economics, a description of what socialism is (in theory) supposed to "work"………………without coming up with:

>muh mudpie

>muh transformation """"problem""""

>muh big gubbermand

>muh socialism is something to establish, rather than something that will naturally emerge from the social contradictions caused by automation replacing human labor

see you later

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Max Keiser vs Peter Schiff

>Peter Schiff

<calm

<collected

<concise

<has arguments

>Max Keiser

<childish

<uses memes in his speech

<ad-homenins

<screams a lot

<has no arguments

Peter clearly won the debate, especially after the 23 minute mark where Max spergs out. Is this best "debater" the crypto-community has? Will post some webm/mp4(s) from the debate.

Also general crypto vs gold debate thread, I guess.

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C h a r i s m a

Post charismatic videos on any libertarian subject

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Should libel and defamation be protected by the first amendment?

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Intellectual Property

I want to further my knowledge on IP. Can you guys provide some materials for me?

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/liberty/ reading

There used to be a thread on here that graphed quality on one axis and accessibility on the other, with regards to various books on libertarianism. Perhaps I'm going blind, but I don't see it in the catalog or either of the stickies.

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Liberty is the noblest of virtues.

Yet how is it realistically achieved?

IF

The greatest threat to Liberty is the State.

IF

Abolishing the State completely is impossible.

THEN

Shrinking the State by whatever by whatever means possible is good.

This can mean lobbying for lower taxes.

This can mean lobbying for local autonomy.

Or it can mean supporting Separatism.

Realistically I think Separatism AKA 'Independence,' has the most promise for the promotion of Liberty.

'Athens' and 'Thebes' are natural allies.

https://steemit.com/@voxxe

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>It says here you visit slash lib-ur-tee slash, which the federal government has deemed to be an illegal channel of information spreading far right propaganda

>you know under current laws you can be convicted for up to 15 years if the court finds you guilty

https://archive.fo/8bc59y

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Heeyyy /liberty/, it's been a while. Missed all of you, that and all the shitposts that are still prevalent on the board.

So what are your thoughts on Catalan? The situation in Spain seems to only be expanding and getting worse and worse by the second, and with that in mind there's definitely some interesting tunes of secession spreading around so I figure this can create for a good discussion.

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>'a person is not to be used, but to be respected and loved'

thoughts?

R: 38 / I: 7 / P: 3 [R] [G] [-]

are /leftpol/ prettier than /liberty/? what about /pol/?

R: 232 / I: 60 / P: 3 [R] [G] [-]

During the inevitable upcoming U.S. civil war, how should we treat captured commies and nazis?

Helicopter memes aside, we capitalists, libertarians and conservatives are the last voice of reason. If we fall, America as we know it ceases to exist.

What should the militia's policy be regarding PoWs?

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Was this okay?

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Roger Ver and Oliver Janssens are planning on spending a few hundred million dollars to buy land from a government and build a libertarian utopia.

Are we going to see Ancapistan in our lifetime? Any of you planning on going off it looks like it might be successful?

https://www.freesociety.com/

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Communism

Nazism

Continental philosophy

Has anything good ever come out of Germany?

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>Horseshoe Theory

Surely nobody here likes using Horseshoe theory, right? You're not mentally challenged, are you?

I've raised a objection to this but I never get a reply so I'll repost it as a whole thread as last resort.

>Horseshoe is just a means of focusing on things that are important to you

>Communists would use horseshoe theory to focus on how Libertarians and Fascists are not interested in fixing the wealth disparities caused by Capitalism

>Left Libertarians would note how they actually reduce the rules of society whereas authoritarians don't and Right Libertarians only are against authoritarianism as long as its agaisnt the government, but don't care about rules imposed by the owner of property, so someone that owns a road can order you to do anything while you are in it.

I didn't even think too hard about it, joke theory.

>Right libertarians, I think you know how you feel about left and right authoritarianism

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PSA

Can anons please stop confusing "it's" with "its" looking at you, CSA? Would /leftypol/ kindly proofread their posts before posting? Thanks a bundle.

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Beta test of political chat - taking suggestions also

Need liberty-oriented audience for political-pairing

URL: http://poldare.com

Copypasta from /pol/ and /leftypol/:

How it works:

All 14 positions are currently divided into 4 camps hostile to each other to the point a discussion can be had. I would recommend LARPing for a start if your queue is more than a minute since potential disbalance could occur. Once you get into a chat, it's pretty similar to omegle. 2 escapes to cancel a chat, 3 to return to "home". What the "A" button does I will let you figure out for yourself (see second webm).

This part is for /tech/:

I do not recommend using it on small-resolution smartphones because I have not optimized the website for it. Larger tablets work fine. It is using shared hosting so host could bottleneck me if too many users connect, but the whole thing ought not to be too CPU-intensive for them. I do not at this point store messages - they are deleted as soon as they are read in order to keep tables small (unless in certain situations, such as other person disconnecting before the server detects it etc. - everything older than 30mins is purged manually). The only thing stored is the text from point of agreement (A button in chat, you'll figure out from second webm). I do not log nor check IPs in any way but I might implement it in the future for purposes of banning people (if that even shows to be necessary, and judging by omegle it's possible that it won't). VPNs and proxies work fine. If you are using uMatrix/noScript jquery and website's javascript is required in order to communicate with the server.

The future:

If you generally like it, I will make a simle app that optimizes the website for android and put it out there to reach more mainstream political positions. If it ever gets popular to the point where it could sustain itself, I'll get a dedicated server for it and introduce websockets which would introduce "the other user is typing" and instant responses (overall, smoother experience). I will also add the news sections, elaborations on positions etc. If you have any questions, do ask.

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What comes after liberal capitalism? It can't last forever.

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How will /liberty/ deal with being attacked by neighbouring countries for no reason?

David Friedman argues that you only need to make conquering Ancap no longer worthwhile. But this assumes war is ever rational.

-

That anyone should imagine that hundreds of millions of people can enthusiastically engage in mutual mass butchery over minor pieces of territory is so patently ludicrous that it is a wonder anyone could ever have taken it seriously; yet this what historians and political scientists still ask us to believe. The entire “rational decisions” school of war theorists, all of whom claim utility as the ultimate motive for war, run up against the extensive empirical research done on hundreds of wars in recent years that consistently shows that wars are destructive not rational, that wars cost even winners more than they gain, that those who begin wars usually lose them and that leaders who go to war historically never actually calculate before they do so whether the gains will exceed the costs.

-

So my question is, are you not worried that you will be attacked by an irrational nation state and be unable to adequately defend yourselves, resulting in wholesale slaughter?

>inb4 people will voluntarily donate $300,000 TOW missiles

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In a pony-human relationship; who is master, who is property, and who is free?

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How would an anarcho-capitalist socity deal with stuff like this? It's nothing more than a violation of male bodily integrity.

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new clip from kelthuz

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Is there any truth to the leftist claim that the overwhelming majority of jobs under capitalism are meaningless make work positions and that the percentage of the labor involved in the essentials for society (food, shelter, infrastructure, energy and related) is a indeed a very small part of the overall work force?

R: 35 / I: 8 / P: 4 [R] [G] [-]

Thoughts on r/Neoliberal?

They look up to people like Friedman and Hayek but also support a welfare state and central banking, provided it's all evidence based ofc.

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"New Individualism"

What the fuck is Edgy talking about? I feel like he's conflating isolation with independence and calling it a new form of individualism.

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TUCKER BTFO ON IMMIGRATION

Altists btfo by proxy

R: 4 / I: 2 / P: 4 [R] [G] [-]

Cyberpunk dystopia when?

R: 14 / I: 3 / P: 4 [R] [G] [-]

Gaining noteriety

This board is slow, but it has a lot of potential. Honestly, the /leftypol/ and /pol/ shitposts can't get much worse, so we might as well try and gain noteriety.

Should we mention this board on /lrg/? Or could we change name to /libertypol/ to get us better recognition?

R: 10 / I: 4 / P: 4 [R] [G] [-]

i hope i will not be scolded for offtopic

i have anthropologic question

how did castes emerge in india? i know about their religion, that if one behaves well he or she would be reincarnated in better caste, allegedly

is it because offspring of a chariot maker is more prone to become chariot makers too? so basically no social mobility?

R: 5 / I: 1 / P: 4 [R] [G] [-]

who would win

zizek or dugin?

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Catalan: Thoughts?

Heeyyy /liberty/, it's been a while. Missed all of you, that and all the shitposts that are still prevalent on the board.

So what are your thoughts on Catalan? The situation in Spain seems to only be expanding and getting worse and worse by the second, and with that in mind there's definitely some interesting tunes of secession spreading around so I figure this can create for a good discussion.

R: 6 / I: 4 / P: 5 [R] [G] [-]

What's the point of reading all these books when I'm going to forget what they were about in a month or less?

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Chicago Boys

So memes aside, what exactly happened in Chile? All I know is that after Pinochet took power there was some crash and eventual, gradual alleviation of the economy.

Leftists say the crash was because of the Chicago Boys and only pragmatic Keynesian economists saved the situation after Pinochet kicked the boys. Libertarians say it was because of Allende's policies catching up and that it was reversed by the Chicago boys. Most unaligned people seem to say that Pinochet was shit but the lesser of two evils and saved the country from commies but nothing about whose policies saved the economy, and since the Chicago school gets flak on this board I'm expecting that's the verdict among ancaps.

Did I get it right?

R: 35 / I: 4 / P: 5 [R] [G] [-]

Do you believe you should be able to live as you wish? Do you want to just be left alone? What if the government takes away your freedoms and liberties and establishes tyranny? Would you take up arms? Would you recruit allies and aids to help you fight? Why? Because you value freedom and liberty, and when a government takes away your freedoms, the people have a right to overthrow that government. You understand that there are things worth risking your life and fighting for. You acknowledge that even if you die, you die for a cause, because you want your children to not have to live in tyranny and instead be free. You're fighting for others, and for the rights of man.

What do you do in a totalitarian society though? How do you resist or fight for rights against an overwhelming powerful government when, in the 21st century, a Google search could get you charged with political crimes? You're powerless, doomed to servitude, your children's future being what the State orders it to be.

But what if there was a country of free people? They have the power to safeguard your liberties and bring freedom. Where you cannot fight, they can. Where you can fight, they're there to help. The United States had France to help in its revolution. The French had the Allies to liberate it from Fascism. Free people seldom win on their own against the forces of tyranny, and free peoples must stick together and fight for the rights of all mankind, for so long as we exist to provide an alternate vision to oppressed masses, we are a threat to tyrants.

Regardless of whether you believe they currently do or not, can we agree that the United States, and free nations around the world, have a moral duty to safeguard liberty and rights for those who can't do it for themselves?

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Since you guys are against regulations, should kids have access on hormone pills and let boys be more feminine?

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HRH's /monarchy/ embassy

Hello, diplomat from /monarchy/ here.

I've been noticing an increasing cross-pollination between /liberty/ and /monarchy/ posters recently, and thought it might be worthwhile to bring up threads or posts that might be to /liberty/'s interest. If I see any ancap, consitutionalism, capitalism/economics, or any other threads that you say you might be interested in (fwiw, please mention your interests) that are posted in /monarchy/, then I'll be sure to post them here. Also, if there are any issues or comments about /monarchy/ posters on /liberty/ or /liberty/ posters on /monarchy/, this might be a decent place to note that here. If a poster from /liberty/ wants to do the same sort of thread in /monarchy/, I'm sure it would be appreciated.

An initial list of threads that might be interesting:

The pair of threads that prompted making this post:

>>>/monarchy/641

>>65239

This is an exchange regarding anarchism and monarchism. The syncretic ancap-monarchism position and Hoppe got mentioned briefly:

>>>/monarchy/460

An exchange regarding the guild system. The economics of it got discussed only briefly. It might be interesting for a /liberty/ poster to mention more fully.

>>>/monarchy/487

Likewise for mercantilism:

>>>/monarchy/236

R: 35 / I: 10 / P: 5 [R] [G] [-]

https://8ch.net/pol/res/10511388.html

http://newrhodesia.com/

the alt-right of /pol/ is thinking of founding a paradise in Africa, they are already selling citizenships for collecting the money to buy the land.

Why does the alt-lite of /liberty/ not follow suit and buy some land in Africa as well? we could even name it Rapture, Libertalia, or Ancapistan.

Maybe with the two nations close to each other, some synthesis will eventually emerge.

R: 96 / I: 35 / P: 5 [R] [G] [-]

i fucking love based korwin

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39152562

R: 13 / I: 4 / P: 5 [R] [G] [-]

/liberty/'s President

Out of all the presidents, we've had in American politics. What is your favorite?

>mine is pic related

R: 12 / I: 2 / P: 5 [R] [G] [-]

What is with the "low rules" deal anyways?

I've been wondering because there's clearly no argument behind it, or very poorly thought out ones

If you've read any libertarian you probably understand Rights of Association(and therefore Disassociation) means that you don't HAVE to associate with anyone. This board is into Hans Herman Hoppe too, which means that you can enter a commune and close off people you don't like because you don't have to live with them after all.

So why are all those homosexuals allowed in? Why is so much deliberation necessary when making a(ultimately temporary) ban?

My only request really is enabling forced anon but I wanted to see the defense people here have over this.

R: 16 / I: 2 / P: 5 [R] [G] [-]

DUDE

R: 27 / I: 6 / P: 5 [R] [G] [-]

thoughts on milton friedman?

R: 12 / I: 3 / P: 5 [R] [G] [-]

Smash Capitalism

ahahahahahahahahahahahaha

best of the day

R: 48 / I: 4 / P: 5 [R] [G] [-]

are agreements of which one side is on strong drugs legitimate in your opinion?

i was watchin this movie and the guy high on heron is persuaded to go to rehab and i think he agreed but did it only to make them stop persuading him, as you can see he was barely alive and conscious

beforehand it was said that to become a patient one must do it voluntarily but he or she cannot leave until 3 months pass

R: 16 / I: 2 / P: 5 [R] [G] [-]

will mr hoppe so to speak physically remove me from ancap if i will be not married?

R: 29 / I: 1 / P: 6 [R] [G] [-]

/liberty/'s thoughts on the military?

too big? not big enough?

R: 7 / I: 1 / P: 6 [R] [G] [-]

Which sex position represents libertarians the best?

I would say it's Ass2Mouth

R: 16 / I: 5 / P: 6 [R] [G] [-]

>muh property

>muh helicopters

>muh freedom of speech

>muh free market

>muh race

How does it feel to know that you're always going to be cucked by spooks fam?

R: 6 / I: 3 / P: 6 [R] [G] [-]

Trump

Thoughts on Trump?

R: 39 / I: 5 / P: 6 [R] [G] [-]

if you had children shop in ancap, will you sell children to a pair of fags or a pair of dykes? why? is the idea that lgbt ppl are no worse parents than heteros cultural marxist fake science?

R: 39 / I: 8 / P: 6 [R] [G] [-]

ITT: Road to Your Ideology

Story time about how you came to be where you are now ideologically.

>be me

>fancied myself a democratic socialist/libertarian socialist, didn't actually really understand these terms

>subscribed to a lot of people on youtube in the "skeptic community" and that opened my eyes on a lot of the social issues of the time (feminism mostly, theism before that)

>never really got any of my views questioned before this

>did subscribe to more right-wing channels, though they tended to talk about a lot of the same stuff as the more center-left people

>election season

>not a fan of hillary, not a fan of trump, though i didn't think he was the big bad liberals made him out to be

>grew to like trump but only because i believed he was an outsider

>bernie shows up

>ohshit.png

>becomes huge bernie fan, people i was subscribed to reinforced this

>sometime around here, started watching videos from more libertarian-minded people

>bernie gets fucked, say fuck it and climb onto the trump train

>starts getting more and more redpilled about economics over time

>100% certain trump would win and make america great again

>election cycle a few months from ending, leaning heavily towards libertarianism, but not full ancap yet

>trump wins, although not as avid of a trump supporter anymore, really happy it was trump over hillary

>time goes on, still giggling at the salty lefties

>starts becoming more and more ancap, but has some faith in trump

>syria strikes

>ive got no more excuses

>goes full ancap

I know it wasn't very exciting at all but I thought I'd share. Feel free to share your own stories.

R: 5 / I: 0 / P: 6 [R] [G] [-]

is it hoppe?

https://youtu.be/Mk1BKJSqxOo?t=48

R: 60 / I: 3 / P: 6 [R] [G] [-]

what is your stance on free will? protip: many famous neuroscientists say free will is an illusion

R: 15 / I: 1 / P: 6 [R] [G] [-]

Economically speaking, what's the ideal leisure to labor ratio?

And I don't mean as an individual choice but as a common standard. I don't know much or anything really about the history of labor, but I recall Ford was the first one to grant his workers an extra day off and raise their salary. And yet, this didn't crash the industry or get him out of business as some people would decry. In a normal playing field this would be financial suicide for an average business, but Ford actually saw better profits from this because his employees were able now to reinvest in his business by buying the cars, so clearly raising the wage above the minimum/standard (for an industry) wage and reducing the work hours isn't always counter-intuitive but relies on some ratio.

Also, a lot of our standards were adopted into law after protests and demands from workers, although I'd believe this would be the case even if it weren't amended into law. How did that affect the economic history?

If anyone got a good source material or research to read on this stuff I will be thankful.

R: 2 / I: 0 / P: 6 [R] [G] [-]

You guys are weird

I like you

R: 5 / I: 8 / P: 6 [R] [G] [-]

>there are libertarians here RIGHT NOW who would not pull the lever because it's "murder"

s

m

h

R: 137 / I: 15 / P: 6 [R] [G] [-]

The Communist Exploitation Theory

You know i had an interesting dialogue with a couple of communist on /leftpol/. I was fully aware of the exploitation theory behind the communist mindset, but i didn't know why I disagreed with it ( to a detailed extent)

And if you don't know what that is its pretty much when the Employer (bousigues) pays his employee less then the value of his labour that he produced.

Example:

Bob works for Frank

Bob makes phones

Frank pays Bob $3 dollars for the phones

Frank sells the phones for 5 dollar.

Conclusion: Frank has exploited Bob because Bob didn't get the full value of his labour. That being $2 dollar which is workers surplus.

I had the biggest problem with this conclusion and I didn't know why?

Until I struck me.

There was never a surplus to begin with. Only when the product is stold does the worker claim there is a surplus. And if the product didn't sell that product, then Bob didn't get cheated out, he actually gain something.

Surplus is created by the Seller not the Producer. And since the Seller creates the surplus, he rightfully owns it (that being the profit). Bob actually got paid for what he did, and was not exploited.

R: 15 / I: 1 / P: 6 [R] [G] [-]

What is going to happen to all the state property when it is finally abolished? A land grab hardly seems fair, but allowing any group of individuals to be in charge of divvying it up seems worse. We all I assume you pay taxes contributed to that public property so we all have a claim to that land, money, infrastructure, etc.

R: 185 / I: 17 / P: 6 [R] [G] [-]

it is embarrassing but deep in my heart i fear that in ancap 99% of ppl will chose not to protect insects and amphibians and reptiles and many of them will go extinct outside private wildlife sanctuaries funded by wildlife enthusiasts like me

normies do not care about frogs or bugs or lizards yet i value these superficially irrelevant animals

i hope in ancap we will have many private wildlife sanctuaries but in order to achieve it wildlife enthusiasts would have to convince normies to give money into wildlife protection but normies are interested only in exploatation of wildlife- hunting, fishing, buying pets

R: 14 / I: 0 / P: 7 [R] [G] [-]

Should the state be turned into a kind of property, with people getting votes about what to do with it depending on how much taxes they paid?

R: 20 / I: 5 / P: 7 [R] [G] [-]

So libertarians and other small government enthusiasts, why aren't you going all the way to anarcho-capitalism?

R: 0 / I: 0 / P: 7 [R] [G] [-]

poland first to fight

was du machen kurwa skurwysynu :D

R: 18 / I: 3 / P: 7 [R] [G] [-]

Are people actually getting dumber, or am I just getting more aware of how dumb they are? Particularly on imageboards, but seeing as how Trump got so many fangirls just by posting memes, it's not to the internet, sadly.

In particular, it's been a while since I've seen anyone who was even interested in a debate about principles. I could sweear we had more of these people a year or two ago. So, what the hell happened, and how do we counteract this trend?

R: 14 / I: 1 / P: 7 [R] [G] [-]

New and improved book dump, /liberty/. In total, it's 285 documents. There should be something interesting in it for anybody:

https://www.file-upload.net/download-12575074/BookDumpPart1.rar.html

https://www.file-upload.net/download-12575107/BookDumpPart2.rar.html

R: 3 / I: 0 / P: 7 [R] [G] [-]

Hey /liberty/, I host two sites related the cause of freedom. I thought I'd share them.

One is voluntaryist.press where I host a bunch of related PDF files. All for free, obviously. The server keeps no logs but proxies through cloudflare, so use Tor.

if you have any pdfs I should add, please post them itt

https://voluntaryist.press

http://erbjkknjdiz7spxq.onion

The other is a small one-page board for anarchist shitposting, since I don't need the server atm.

http://anchan.tech/anchan/

(I'll implement Tor and HTTPS at some point but Tor nodes can post over clearnet anyhow)

Thanks for reading, please contribute anything I don't have (and/or suggest better folder structure, and if anyone knows web design please write me a fucking html/css template)

R: 12 / I: 3 / P: 7 [R] [G] [-]

>nationalism

>not being able to exist alongside with ancap

>he isn't a nationalist ancap

shit sticky

R: 42 / I: 9 / P: 7 [R] [G] [-]

Ancap flag in my anime, the future looks bright anon.

R: 14 / I: 0 / P: 7 [R] [G] [-]

would you rather your daughter worked for gov or was a strong independent prostitute?

R: 6 / I: 0 / P: 7 [R] [G] [-]

Nice argument why ancap isn't inherently hierarchical despite being capitalist:

Murray Rothbard maintains that anarcho-capitalism is the only true form of anarchism– the only form of anarchism that could possibly exist in reality, as, he argues, any other form presupposes an authoritarian enforcement of political ideology (redistribution of private property, etc.). In short, while granting that certain non-coercive hierarchies will exist under an anarcho-capitalist system, they will have no real authority except over their own property: a worker existing within such a 'hierarchy' (answerable to management, bosses, etc.) is free at all times to abandon this voluntary 'hierarchy' and 1) create an organization within which he/she is at (or somewhere near) the top of the 'hierarchy' (entrepreneurship), 2) join an existing 'hierarchy' (wherein he/she will likely be lower in the scheme of things), or 3) abandon these hierarchies altogether and join/form a non-hierarchical association such as a cooperative, commune, etc.. Since there will be no taxes, such cooperative organizations (labour unions, communes, voluntary socialist associations wherein the product of the labour and of the capital goods of those who join which they were able to peaceably acquire would be shared amongst all who joined, etc.) would, under anarcho-capitalism, enjoy the freedom to do as they please (provided, of course that they set up their operation on their own -or un-owned- property, in other words so long as they do so without force).

R: 11 / I: 2 / P: 7 [R] [G] [-]

the business you work for just fired you solely due to your libertarian beliefs.

how do you react?

pic unrelated

R: 10 / I: 3 / P: 7 [R] [G] [-]

Libertarianism and Christianity go hand in hand since both are jewish

Is this true?

R: 0 / I: 0 / P: 7 [R] [G] [-]

This is the most patriotic song i've ever heard.

R: 2 / I: 0 / P: 7 [R] [G] [-]

What does /liberty/ think of the stock market and of trading in general? I have a rudimentary understanding of it so I can't really say much, but I was wondering how/if it the stock market will exist under anarcho-capitalism or in the ideal libertarian state.

R: 4 / I: 0 / P: 8 [R] [G] [-]

lets assume my mother did drugs and smoke and drank when pregnant with me in her uterus

lets assume im severely handicaped because of her actions mentioned above

can i sue her with success in ancap?

R: 15 / I: 4 / P: 8 [R] [G] [-]

AnCap OC

Thinking of making some fresh shitty OC of people asking "who will build the roads?" questions to commies in order to piss them off help them understand why these questions are a shit.

Creating a thread for people to pitch ideas and so I don't forget in my tired state after work.

R: 0 / I: 0 / P: 8 [R] [G] [-]

You got an email to get contacted BO? I need to communicate privately.

This is just a small thing to talk about.

R: 5 / I: 0 / P: 8 [R] [G] [-]

are they schizos?

R: 1 / I: 1 / P: 8 [R] [G] [-]

Threat to internet freedom?

https://boingboing.net/2017/09/18/antifeatures-for-all.html

Discuss

R: 40 / I: 8 / P: 8 [R] [G] [-]

Hey /liberty/,

I got a simple question for you:

As which ideology do you identify?

Which name would you give your political ideology?

I myself identify as an individualist ultraminarchist, little less anarchist than ancap but completely focused on the individual.

Oh, and another question:

What's your view on the age of consent?

I myself think it should be abolished and instead every single questionable case should be checked by a psychologist whether they knew what they were doing and if it was consensual.

I think consensual intercourse should always be legal, regardless of age.

>what if the child consents tho?

R: 37 / I: 4 / P: 8 [R] [G] [-]

Thoughts on Lauren's latest video?

R: 5 / I: 1 / P: 8 [R] [G] [-]

What do you think about democratic confederalism? Do you think it is good or Commie trash?

Have you googled bookchin yet /liberty/?

R: 2 / I: 0 / P: 8 [R] [G] [-]

Has anyone read this book Assange is talking about?

R: 17 / I: 8 / P: 8 [R] [G] [-]

Why does /liberty/ hate the French Revolution again? I'm sorry for the question thread but I need a rundown of a bit more than the "The rule of the mob is not always right", this much is talked about.

Now accepting book links/book copy-paste.

R: 3 / I: 2 / P: 8 [R] [G] [-]

AI Fears

Are fears about AI taking human jobs legitimate? Or is this just like the shift from agriculture to manufacturing and industry? How will the market solve problems with increased automation?

R: 1 / I: 0 / P: 8 [R] [G] [-]

Authoritarian Commies against freedom in IRC

RatFink and Kirkland_Signature are infiltrating #8chan with liberalism and tolerance towards authoritarian communists. It is time to get competent mods.

If you're offended by this contact your local 8DL today.

-T. King of the Lavish Aryan Rich Pimps association

#RemoveFaggotMods2017

https://strawpoll.com/3s11gsfx

R: 18 / I: 0 / P: 8 [R] [G] [-]

Dilemma

I'm not a US citizen.

I'm planning on applying to a US university for graduate studies. Now, I think education is a fucking scam, but I also want to live in the United States because my country sucks ass.

I want to apply for FAFSA, but I can't because it's fucking tax money.

FUCK

Posting on chinese origami boards doesn't really show how dedicated you are to your cause. If I take this, I'll be a fucking hypocrite.

I think this is all mental masturbation anyways, because I dont know how I will pay that loan back.

Assuming I don't take that loan and I get fully funded by the university (which happens to be an Ivy), will that be a problem? Are Ivys funded by the gubmint?

R: 106 / I: 20 / P: 8 [R] [G] [-]

Rightists = Low lQ

How do you respond to this scientific research?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2095549/Right-wingers-intelligent-left-wingers-says-controversial-study--conservative-politics-lead-people-racist.html

People with over 100+ IQ only post here

(naizs, fash, nationalists, or any other low IQ rightists don't even bother posting thx)

R: 48 / I: 12 / P: 8 [R] [G] [-]

>While you having pre-marital sex, I mastered Austrian Economics.

R: 17 / I: 5 / P: 9 [R] [G] [-]

8chan Attention-Hungry Games Thread

Like Pottery.

ITT discuss Attention-Hungry Games.

R: 3 / I: 1 / P: 9 [R] [G] [-]

Demand the Internet be Declared a Country

tl;dr: The Internet is an international nation and we should start taking the necessary steps to gain a culture which understands as much.

```Meaning of Country```

What is a country? Is a country its people, its borders, its bureaucracy, its military, or a combination of all these things? Whatever denotative definition of country we may have in our dictionaries, even if it goes against this concept, I say that definition must be expanded to include things such as the Internet. Most people believe in a connotative definition of a country being a conceivable place with citizens who follow some form of governance.

The Internet is a place and while this place is quite abstract, it is nonetheless far too real for people to ignore or play off as just a piece of technology. When a webpage appears on my computer, I say that I have gone to a webpage; much like how you would say you have gone to a city or state. When a moderator punishes me, I am given a warning or banned from the webpage; much like how police can punish you or ban you from a county. Mods can delete or hide messages; much like how in real life countries can try to censor or hide certain messages.

```Allegory between Website Governance and Country Governance```

An owner runs a website, much like how a mayor runs a city, or a governor runs a state, or a prime minister runs a country. An owner's group of administrators helps the owner run the website, much like for instance how the President of the United States' "administration" helps the President run the country. By this metaphor moderators can be considered an allegory for governors while high-ranking/influential users can be considered an allegory for mayors. Owners, administrators, moderators, and notable users operate like any other political officials in real life. They set up guidelines/rules which are the allegorical laws of the land. They vie for and argue over power distribution and what abilities they do and do not have. Notable users can organize protests against mods, mods can organize protests against admins, and admins are payed to work for the owner or quit; just like how notable citizens can protest governors and governors and protest the president and their administration. While in real life we call signs and buttons propaganda, on the Internet these things are commonly called memmies and can be posted for the same purposes.

```What do we do if we choose to believe this?```

The Internet is worth fighting for and you already see this through hacktivist causes against old and new bills such as the classic SOPA, PIPA, and CISPA which went against net neutrality. But to take this to the next level and form the Internet into an official country, is actually not going to be as difficult as you would think. First, various drafts for how this new Internet government should operate would need to be formed by independent groups and committees. They would need to be debated in serious forums across the Internet and heavily compared and contrasted. Second, polls would need to be conducted across the Internet over various aspects of these new policies so that they are crafted with the user's thoughts in mind. Third, a final poll for if the Internet should be declared a country will need to be conducted through Facebook, since Facebook is notorious for their anti-fake account policies which will ensure real users are, for the most part, casting real votes.

(part 1 of 2)

R: 9 / I: 2 / P: 9 [R] [G] [-]

Very good article about the 'neoliberal revolution', its uptake in different countries, and its effects in different countries

http://www.econlib.org/library/Columns/y2010/Sumnerneoliberalism.html

It especially debunks some arguments that had worried me, such as the alleged disaster in Eastern Europe

R: 46 / I: 4 / P: 9 [R] [G] [-]

Is Ayn Rand worth reading or was she an edgelady?

I know she ended up using social security and Medicare towards the end of her life.

R: 18 / I: 5 / P: 9 [R] [G] [-]

Refugees and Authoritarianism

The refugee crisis was caused by neoliberal capitalists and shitty hawkish American foreign policy. American backed terrorists (ISIS) are now used as a tool by all governments to enforce authoritarianism around the world.

Prove me wrong, you can't.

R: 10 / I: 1 / P: 9 [R] [G] [-]

was feyerabend a commie?

R: 44 / I: 8 / P: 9 [R] [G] [-]

what do you think about

>The Open Society and Its Enemies

??

R: 18 / I: 2 / P: 9 [R] [G] [-]

John McAfee

Would you have voted for him given the chance?

Also, do you think he will really eat his own penis if buttcoin doesnt reach 3 gorillion?

R: 8 / I: 4 / P: 9 [R] [G] [-]

For clarification, is that one anon shitposting and saging under "Christian Anarchist" flag the same one who came out to be a total liar and failure in life?

This anon's shitposting is seriously harming the quality of this board and if he is the same one I want to bully him until he stops.

R: 7 / I: 1 / P: 9 [R] [G] [-]

NAP Violation?

The Norks launched a second missile over Japanese territory. Even though it's only a simple invasion of airspace, is this a violation of the NAP?

R: 31 / I: 13 / P: 9 [R] [G] [-]

Anti-Capitalist Myths Debunked

>Muh "Capitalism is destroying the Earth"

>Globalization is destroying indigenous identity

>Capitalism requires endless growth

>Capitalism killed the First Americans

>Capitalism is built on racism

What are some of the worst anti-capitalist memes and how would you debunk them?

R: 5 / I: 0 / P: 9 [R] [G] [-]

Trying to shill my ideology

My meme is not good…

But my idea is, so to speak, libertarian; it is a pragmatic way to promote the gradual erosion of the state. Assuming the market is superior, the state will not be able to compete, and the market will take over a lot more services

R: 11 / I: 1 / P: 9 [R] [G] [-]

How do you deal with immigration in an ancap society?

R: 34 / I: 5 / P: 9 [R] [G] [-]

How am I supposed to take libertarian arguments about autonomy and non-aggression at face value when every last person I know who supported Ron Paul in '08 is now an ethno-nationalist? Is anybody an "actual libertarian" for more than a few years before they just say fuck it and go full brownshirt?

R: 3 / I: 0 / P: 9 [R] [G] [-]

slavery

Currently reading For a New Liberty but I still haven't gotten to the chapter on slaves and I don't think I've seen it explicitly discussed here. Could somebody outline real quick what forces would prevent child sex slave prostitution rings in an ancap society?

R: 31 / I: 3 / P: 10 [R] [G] [-]

Syrian Conflict

>Go on a massive media propaganda spree to demonize Assad

>failed

>Arm and fund terrorists to overthrow the state

>failed

>Create ISIS to try and destroy the state

>failed

>Now the U.S. resorts to arming the Kurds in an attempt to balkanize the region

Daily reminder that the SDF/YPG/PKK are commies and backstabbing scum not to be trusted. They are trying to steal the vast Syrian oil fields while the SAA is liberating Deir ez-Zor. They are nothing but a U.S. proxy army.

After ISIS, the Kurds are next. It's going to be hilarious seeing the Kurds get stomped by the Syrian/Iraqi alliance after they dare to declare an independent Kurdish state. The U.S. is trying to pull another Bosnia Herzegovina situation, carving up the region to weaken Syria. Fortunately that is not going to work because Russia watches like an eagle.

R: 12 / I: 2 / P: 10 [R] [G] [-]

Muh Roads

Are the railroads of the 1800s and 1900s good example of how roads will function (or come some where close to it) in a Ancap society?

R: 33 / I: 1 / P: 10 [R] [G] [-]

anyone wanna help me write a party manifesto?

I just got the papers from the local office of law to start a new political party, the Canadian alt-right party (CARP), I need to write a party manifesto and collect 2,500 signatures, I've got all my ideas, But I need help with the language, especially since I plan on banning the vote from Women, Sub-90 IQ's, and all Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam, and Mormonism), and want to establish, in as much detail as possible, how this should be done.

R: 111 / I: 31 / P: 10 [R] [G] [-]

Charlottesville Rally

NEETSOCs and Commie faggots clashing in the streets in Charlottesville. Police not getting involved unless they can deem it an "unlawful rally" resulting in both sides completely dispersing.

Just two violent ideologies that want to genocide people interacting. Nothing to see here, but let's have a thread before some /pol/ or /leftypol/ user shits up the board about it.

R: 41 / I: 21 / P: 10 [R] [G] [-]

Cryptocurrency for /Liberty/

Hey guys,

I was on 4chan, 8pol and even Endchan. The goal is to unite the chans, various boards and ideologically unite for at least some time and gain gainz in the financial world.

It will take some time for this cryptocurrency to take off and I'm still working on the site and whitepaper.

You can join us on the discord

discord . gg / sqhqpzE

Go ahead and make a cryptocurrency wallet

https://www.myetherwallet.com/

And drop your address and I'll send you 15k Ohni, free, no charge. That way once we have value, all of you have money and will have something to shill for.

A proper wallet address will look like this

0x2276BDc6d9159b19F73E8b395cc69e8Aeb29c86e

Please give up to 72 hours to get your gibs. We are listed on myetherwallet as well, so you'll see it pop up.

Also… why Ohni?

Ohni.io

the whitepaper

http://ohni.io/whitepaper.pdf

Again, it will be a few weeks to really get going, but I'm just here to gibs for free. No I don't want anything from you or to do with you, when the time is right, we'll sound the horn to shill.

R: 85 / I: 20 / P: 10 [R] [G] [-]

Is environmental pollution aggression? Lots of people are convinced that continued pollution will lead to catastrophic consequences, would they be right to form eco-crusades and invade the USA, China, etc. to stop them from poisoning the planet?

R: 1 / I: 0 / P: 10 [R] [G] [-]

Is pragmatism the underlying philosophy of libertarianism?

R: 7 / I: 0 / P: 10 [R] [G] [-]

>>1 is 404

just fyi

R: 3 / I: 2 / P: 10 [R] [G] [-]

What does /liberty/ think about Murray Bookchin?

R: 30 / I: 20 / P: 10 [R] [G] [-]

Flag update

Can we update these flags, they look elementary as hell.

Also could a gif work?

R: 22 / I: 0 / P: 10 [R] [G] [-]

/liberty/ tier Youtube channels

Even with the demonetizing bullshit, Youtube alone is a driving platform for statist ideologies, especially right-wing channels and they are influencing a ton of people. The lack of /liberty/ youtube channels on the platform is not as much of a problem as the fact that these few channels barely have any views in comparison.

I'll name the ones I know and are probably known here.

Brave The World:

https://www.youtube.com/user/BraveTheWorldChannel

Mr. Dapperton:

https://www.youtube.com/user/hxcrocker75

Free Man Beyond The Wall:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRu_WNcX0WgBQDurM1MR7ZQ

Actual Anarchy:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCh9ovtqQy9MkNuQZ6pqyBOA

Read Rothbard:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6scWmxurT38iUMU9NTW_ig

Hoodie Demon:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCh0KJrqUaScnDb6G0Um1LJw

Stephan Kinsella

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5yRxMzdtzbVVdaLmItrZug

Liberty.me

https://www.youtube.com/user/libertydotme

misesmedia

https://www.youtube.com/user/misesmedia

The Voluntarist Consumer

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtf5O_Ii4KGQnvbg9FHTYxg

Esoteric Entity

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCd4qlr7fHZxUsN2LJK8DLCw

Mike-the-cat

https://www.youtube.com/user/mikethecat1000

V for Voluntary Library:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCL_bomzJWFozc5PREYlyoqw

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ye

R: 4 / I: 2 / P: 10 [R] [G] [-]

LMAO this board, you autistic cucks ain't /leftypol/ but boy you are almost there

R: 2 / I: 0 / P: 10 [R] [G] [-]

Is the only way to achieve true liberty is for the earth to experience a mass near-extinction event (similar to a plague or violent, worldwide climate event) that leaves only a small percentage of humanity alive?

R: 10 / I: 3 / P: 10 [R] [G] [-]

Anarchist Discord Server Invite

https://discord.gg/s5A26BW

Take the bread pill and join our Anarchist Discord Server with 200+ members we are very active and fun, hope to see you there!

R: 10 / I: 1 / P: 11 [R] [G] [-]

>hate commies

>reasonably racist

>too chilled out to be a /pol/ack

>too conservative to be /libert/arian

What is the right pill for me?

R: 82 / I: 17 / P: 11 [R] [G] [-]

Hey libfags, I found a comic of yours and made it better

R: 37 / I: 3 / P: 11 [R] [G] [-]

Is pushing people to commit suicide a violation of the NAP?

R: 70 / I: 16 / P: 11 [R] [G] [-]

Why is both the left and the 'alt-right' so fucking obsessed about skin color?

I remember racism being a non-issue in the 90's and early 00's. We were way beyond that archaic shit. What happened to judging people based on their individual character instead of their melanin count?

Now it's like we're in the twilight zone, as if we are transported back to 1932 Weimar Republic with commie and nazi LARPers clashing in the streets.

Holy shit, people are getting dumber and dumber. Millenials are a fucked generation.

R: 2 / I: 0 / P: 11 [R] [G] [-]

Why does leftist always wrong?

R: 98 / I: 11 / P: 11 [R] [G] [-]

At what age did you grow out of atheism, and how did it affect your politics?

For me it was around 21, when I realized there is too much overwhelming evidence for the existence of God. I researched Christian theology, philosophy, apologetics and creation science. It takes a lot of blind faith to believe in evolutionism, its pseudo-scientific errors and Darwin's cult followers. After having conquered cognitive dissonance and false presuppositions, I could no longer be an atheist living in denial.

As for politics, I realized how your religion or philosophical belief system helps to form your worldview. Your politics are based on a foundation, which is why left-wing socialists, communists and crazy SJW regressives are always atheists. The U.S. suffers from degeneracy and subversion by cultural marxists and postmodernists. Our biblical ethics, values and morality have been torn away and we witness the effects of it today. I feel really sorry for millenials, I would hate to raise a child in this current disgusting culture. Good thing this life is temporary and God will restore creation after the second coming of Christ.

R: 0 / I: 0 / P: 11 [R] [G] [-]

Conflict between leftist Venezulean critic and leftist Capitalism criticism

Keeping it short because I am tired.

Usually when you debate a leftist about Venezuela, he will tell you that Venezuela was state capitalism because the industries were controlled by the government to trade and there was no real worker ownership of the labor, so it was capitalism's fault.

Usually when you debate a leftist about Capitalism being a old invention, he will tell you that only recently has capitalism arrived, because beforewards, the king decreed where the peasants would grow their crops, and the king decreed if the trade would pass.

But only one can be true. Its the same thing except its colored by their ideology. The first situation supposes that a autocrat leading the resources is capitalism and the second supposes that a autocrat leading the resources is not capitalism.

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Would a libertarian society condone beating your wife? How can man truly be free if he can't sucker punch an uppity wench?

R: 9 / I: 1 / P: 11 [R] [G] [-]

have you ever experienced discrimination because of your edgy worldview/political opinions?

R: 7 / I: 4 / P: 11 [R] [G] [-]

Muh Roads 2.0

Many anarcho-capitalists propose private roads as an alternative to the current system of government owned or government owned/private maintained roads in a stateless society. This, however, causes issues as you can't exactly "vote with your wallet" when it comes to roads since they are kinda stuck there just like your land.

Instead I would like to propose another alternative: Roads shall be regarded as public property, but maintained by private companies. Public property means that it is the collective property of all that may make use of it, but no body can lay private claim to any section of [public] road. Any individual or organization can commission for a section of road to be repaired by any company at any reasonable time. This means that roads are maintained by competent, competing companies to the exact degree that which those using the roads would prefer but without the hassles of privatization such as tolls, rights disputes or shitty roadlords abusing their power. The incentive is still there because business owners need good roads to make good money so will pay as much as is needed to achieve this end.

This is all well and good for basic tar + gravel roads, but what about the more complex structures? Any inbred can fill a pothole, but it takes a certain level of competency and trust to be able to maintain something gargantuan like the Golden Gate Bridge. Consequently, mainenance of such structures will be more expensive, and will need more centralized authority to maintain an acceptable level of safety. So for such structures, yes they should be privately owned and funded as the proprietors see fit. Other complex structures like cloverleafs, small bridges and concrete roads may still be able to get away with public ownership.

Where I live, the only complex structures on the road network are underpasses, a 100m bridge and a smaller bridge so perhaps I am biassed as to how easy this would be. What do you urbanfags think about this?

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Just admit it, /liberty/, he was right about everything.

R: 4 / I: 0 / P: 11 [R] [G] [-]

https://tribune.com.pk/story/1502340/eu-members-want-tax-digital-giants-revenues/

>“We should no longer accept that these companies do business in Europe while paying minimal amounts of tax to our treasuries,” the four ministers wrote in a letter seen by Reuters.

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what would you call my ideology?

i have made a project called OSEI.

new fag here. (pic related to unity of the people)

it is a permaculture project and a way of life.

im currently at the stage of finding land to start the project.

on my page i have stated my ideology.

https://www.patreon.com/user/posts?u=6572532

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lol you fuckers are screwed

R: 14 / I: 8 / P: 11 [R] [G] [-]

Hey goys, any of you play POWER?

It’s basically a political simulation game where you can run for senate, gov or president. I’m part of the Libertarian party and we need more right-libertarians to btfo the statist GOP and Democrats.

The GOP are currently the dominate party and they are primarily made up of Nu/pol/, /r/The_Donald, weebs and Natsocs. The Dems are made up of mostly ‘neoliberals’ and progressives. There is also the Democratic people’s union which is mostly commie made up of /r/socialism and /leftypol/ fags. We currently have 40 in-game members and 7 seats which is far better than the DPU which have 56 members and 1 seat.

The main fun of the game comes from plotting, scheming, and shitposting on the several discords of each party. Here is the LP discord link: https://discord.io/powerlp if you join we can also help you with picking a state and strategy.

R: 5 / I: 2 / P: 12 [R] [G] [-]

Anarchist Discord Server Invite!!

https://discord.gg/s5A26BW

Take the bread pill and join our Anarchist Discord Server with 200+ members we are very active and fun, hope to see you there!

R: 5 / I: 0 / P: 12 [R] [G] [-]

US Seize Dotcom’s Assets, Despite Him Never Stepping Foot in the US

Megaupload founder Kim Dotcom has effectively abandoned all hope of retrieving millions of dollars of capital, real estate and luxury goods after the US Justice Department formally filed an asset-forfeiture with the Supreme Court on Friday.

https://leakofnations.com/us-seize-dotcoms-assets-despite-him-never-stepping-foot-in-the-us-kim-dotcom-assets-seized-by-us-megaupload-founder/

R: 60 / I: 15 / P: 12 [R] [G] [-]

What is socialism?

R: 30 / I: 7 / P: 12 [R] [G] [-]

Fascism

Communism

America beat both before. We'll do it again!

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How this was written:

Pragmatism: Scientific facts, and the practical implications thereof, must come first in any consideration of policy; philosophical arguments, and the principles derived from them, must always come second, observation + practicality before argumentation + ideology.

This document recognizes Race and IQ, which it addresses with it's Immigration and Travel policies, it recognizes the negative effects of Racial Diversity, which it addresses with it's guarantee of freedom of association, it recognizes Racial Voting habits, which it addresses with it's restrictions on government powers, and on the ability of the population to affect them, the jewish question is recognized by this document, and addresses by the forbidding of any military action that is not justified by it's nesscesity for the immediate defense of the nation, and by the forbidding or foreign aid to other countries, or to any people that are not citizens of the nation, and by the forbidding of private defense lawyers, and by the forbidding of intellectual property, and by the forbidding of all subsidization of p[rivate institutions, such as universities, and by the forbidding of all central banking, and the creation of an emergent, non-fiat currency, and the creation of an individual annual flat tax, with all of these taken together, there is no place for the jewish problem families to get any influence, nor to back up the individual problem jews, either.

Manifesto: National Libertarianism, ruled by a set of policies that may not be altered in any way, including nothing being able to be added to them, nor removed from them, the sets of policies below will include every policy it will ever have, anything not written here will be something forbidden to the government to get involved with, any attempt to alter, add to, or remove from, the policies in this document will be considered an act of treason, and those found guilty of such an act will be punished by execution.

There are only four branches of government:

The department of defense (federal), consisting of the military, intelligence, immigration, and travel, it is designed to protect the nation (defined as consisting of it's people, it's culture, it's laws, and it's government) from external threats.

The executive branch (federal), which sets the rates of the flat tax for the department of defense, and which has command over the department of defense.

The department of justice (provincial), consisting of the police, courts, prisons, and fire departments, designed to protect the nation from internal threats.

The legislative branch (provincial), which sets the rates of the flat tax for the department of justice, and which has command over the department of justice.

The department of representation, which performs two functions:

1.) The department of representation collects information on it's citizens and issues Identification to each citizen, each ID contains the following information:

A.) A clear photograph of the citizen's face (taken by the department).

B.) Full legal name (and signature, when possible).

C.) Date of birth (in day/month/year either taken from their birth certificate, or approximated by the department with an age test in cases where the certificate is unavailable or it's authenticity is in doubt).

D.) Legal sex (determined by the department with a genetic test, or from previous genetic test results, all individuals possessing at least one Y chromosome are issued a legal sex of "Male", and all individuals without even one Y chromosome are issued a legal sex of "Female" written in a red font).

E.) Intelligence quotient (determined by the department with an IQ test, IQ's below 90 are written in a red font).

F.) Religious status (all statuses the fall under "Abrahamic" (all denominations of Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Ba'hai, Mormonism, or any other religion that includes the worship of the Abrahamic God, such as certain forms of Hinduism) shall be marked in a red font).

And

G.) Citizenship status (either "Natural Citizen" or "Immigrant Citizen", with "Immigrant Citizen" written in a red font, natural citizens are citizens who possess at least one biological parent that is also a natural citizen, the first natural citizens will be those individuals who had occupied this country at the time of it's founding, or were citizens of a territory that was acquired by the country at some point in it's history, immigrant citizens are individuals who has been granted the status when they applied for citizenship in this country and had been accepted)

Once issued, ID's may be reissued at the request of the holder once one year has passed, during which any tests or questions may be retaken.

R: 3 / I: 0 / P: 12 [R] [G] [-]

The Atlas Project

The Ayn Rand Institue is conducting a chapter-by-chapter, eight month discussion for Atlas Shrugged, for new readers and experienced alike.

https://ari.aynrand.org/blog/2017/07/28/celebrate-60-years-of-atlas-shrugged-with-the-atlas-project

>This October marks the 60th anniversary of the publication of Atlas Shrugged, Ayn Rand’s magnum opus. In celebration of this anniversary, ARI is sponsoring The Atlas Project, an online discussion group about the book. Participants can read a chapter a week, review and discuss questions we’ll post to the Project’s Facebook group, and watch weekly live sessions led by Greg Salmieri and me (Ben Bayer) every Tuesday night at 5:30 p.m. Pacific (8:30 p.m. eastern) via Facebook Live on the official Atlas Shrugged Facebook page. You can learn more about how the group will be run by watching the video of Greg and me up above.

>The primary intended audience of the Project is first-time readers of Atlas. For this reason, a strict no-spoiler rule will be enforced both on the online discussion group and in our Facebook Live broadcasts. But we do encourage those who’ve already read the book to read it again with us, both to experience it again on an appropriate occasion, and also to revisit what it was like to read it for the first time (in light of the experience first-time readers share with us).

http://youtube.com/channel/UCM6z9wqPxdRHjAC_Pjdp5yQ

You can sign up for the mailing list here:

http://0x0.st/fk

http://www.atlasproject.live

discussion questions for Chapter 2, "The Chain":

>Question 1: Why does Rearden “put his name on everything he touches,” and what can we infer about his character from this?

>Question 2: How does Lillian’s treatment of Hank compare to the rest of his family’s treatment?

>Question 3: How is Rearden’s approach to problems in his personal life like and unlike his approach to problems in his career?

>Question 4: In what respects are Rearden and Dagny alike, and in what respects are they different?

>Question 5: Does Rearden need personal relationships? How can we tell?

R: 9 / I: 0 / P: 12 [R] [G] [-]

Firemen

Alright, /liberty/. Yellowpill me on firemen. I understand the arguments perfectly well for why private firemen/insurance discounts for following fire code work better than state-funded firemen, but as far as I can tell, if I owned a restaurant, firemen are the only group of government workers I'd be willing to give a discount to because almost all the issues I hear about the fire department are either caused by non-firemen interfering in firefighting, or military firemen dumping toxic chemicals into the ground to put out military base fires (and we already know the military is a shit).

I want examples, facts, shit showing that firemen are bad and not just the bureaucracy surrounding them. We know the cops are pigs, post office workers are corrupt, and DMV workers deserve a .50Cal through the genitals and/or skull, but what about the firefighters?

R: 2 / I: 0 / P: 12 [R] [G] [-]

Is a state of "non-state" even possible?

I suppose this question is more oriented towards the anarchist side of /liberty/ than anyone else. As I see it, all social mammals have a sort of hierarchy or structure that to some degree maintains a cohesion within the community that allows said group to compete within its environment against other groups of organisms. Each subset of homo sapiens trivially has a hierarchy as all people have a unique arrangement of traits that either benefits them or detracts from their success based on their environment within that period of time. Is it unfair to simply view the state as sort of a gestalt of this hierarchy? It is known that individuals who seek power for themselves tend to succeed over individuals who do not. Such a behavior naturally creates structures in which there are people held in higher regard than others and such powerful people will from time to time consider the use of violence as a means of cementing their control. In a stateless society, how does one prevent the accumulation of power in such a way that it preserves their liberty and yet all at the same time prevents the "gestalt" from emerging?

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How can anyone defend the welfare state when welfare recipients are, by and large, the worst people you could ever meet? And it's not the poverty that's the problem. Welfare queens don't live in poverty. They have enough food to grow fat, they have more leisure than anyone else in society, and nowadays, all of them can afford a TV and a smartphone. If you're working and poor, chances are you have less money on your hand, and that's money you're actually working for. Besides, the working poor I've met weren't that bad. Still plebs, but not bad people at all. Not bitter and envious like the welfare queens, and unlike them, they actually genuinely care about family. In that regard, at least where I live, they're the best people you could hope to meet.

Crime ins't the problem, either. Where does all the crime come from in the first place? Would be one hell of a coincidence if it exploded at just the same time that the welfare state became overbearing. Poverty existed before the crime wave of the 60's, so it cannot be the cause. That poverty causes crime at all is unproven, too. The correlation is rather between crime and entitlement. Besides, if welfare was an effective means of fighting poverty, and if poverty caused crime, then we would expect a correlation between welfare and lack of crime. Yet such a correlation does not exist, so… how come people take any part of this narrative serious?

Nor is the main issue race. Every country that I know of has its "white trash" that's associated with welfare. Here in Germany, we call them "Hartzer". The stereotype is a fat, middle-aged women who constantly fights with her husband in some strange dialect no one understands and doesn't look after her three children, all of whom have trendy names. Terribly original, I know. That's my point: Every country has shitty, white people because of the welfare state. So race cannot be the main issue.

We know that voters are driven by emotions, but where is the emotion of disgust when it comes to people who lived twenty years on welfare? Everyone hates welfare queens, but no one dares make them the target of an attack. It's really not that hard to differentiate them from the people that genuinely cannot work or that haven't found a new job after a few months, either.

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BAD GOYIM

R: 21 / I: 1 / P: 12 [R] [G] [-]

How do we deal with rise of leftists academia?

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Price Gouging

THE MISLEADING CLAIM: "Price-gouging after a natural disaster is reprehensible and should strictly be outlawed.”

THE REALITY: Such restrictions negatively affect the supply of goods, exacerbating shortages. As professor of economics and finance Mark J. Perry states, "Anti-price gouging laws are really ‘pro-shortage’ laws."

This is an issue most decent-hearted people simply misunderstand. Nobel Laureate Daniel Kahneman's infamous research on the matter indicated that 80% of surveyed people said raising prices after a severe weather emergency was unfair. [b] Meanwhile, only 7-8% of surveyed ECONOMISTS agreed. [c] This isn’t as much about ethics as it is about knowledge. Most people agree that victims shouldn’t be harmed. What the general public isn’t aware of, however, is that anti-price gouging laws ARE harmful.

From the paper “The Ethics of Price Gouging,” Associate Professor of Philosophy Matt Zwolinski explains:

“Holding prices low, voluntarily or by regulation, may seem to achieve justice in the microcosm, but it does so at the cost of keeping the microcosm static, and preventing the influx of supply that would alleviate concerns…” [d] He recounted the following story:

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Welfare

>Tfw you have to pay for mandatory insurance and public broadcasting unless you receive some kind of welfare

>Tfw the state actively punishes you for not leeching from it

Great. Just fucking great. But hey, at least demand is boosted and the velocity of money increased and just fuck all this sophistry, they come up with a new one every two weeks.

R: 119 / I: 34 / P: 12 [R] [G] [-]

Leftypol Contradictions

How can leftypol claim exploitation is immoral while claiming morality is a spook?

How can leftypol claim to be against objectivity while believing in an objective theory of value?

How can leftypol believe that property rights are spooks but support personal property right? Is there really a distinction between private property and personal property?

R: 6 / I: 1 / P: 12 [R] [G] [-]

What does /liberty/ think of the DACA thing? I know, in the ideal scenario, everyone would have their own borders around their private property and things like national borders and immigration would be a non issue. But since it currently is an issue, what do you think is the right move? Physically remove the fruit picking geniuses or let them stay?

R: 9 / I: 1 / P: 13 [R] [G] [-]

germany is doomed

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Can we morally condemn socialist revolutionaries, given that their fellow countrymen were starving to death?

I would be angry at rich people too, and might have been persuaded, if I was ignorant enough, of the need for a new system.

I'm less willing to forgive in 2017, but I think it's true that in France, Russia, and China people regularly starved

R: 11 / I: 3 / P: 13 [R] [G] [-]

Board-tan

>>>/sudo/42783

Well, /liberty/?

I bitched about the fact that he's asking artists to be paid in exposure, but we might as well get in on this if we can. I'm thinking we should submit AnCap Grill, but these three fuckers seem to be what we're most known for.

R: 4 / I: 0 / P: 13 [R] [G] [-]

/liberty/ goes to the courtroom

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who /teamsarwark/ here???????

R: 6 / I: 2 / P: 13 [R] [G] [-]

Is the Liberty Movement Meaningless?

This isn't to say that statism of any kind is good. It's just that when you examine the liberty movement closely, especially all the time and involvement you've invested, what have we voluntaryists accomplished? Sure you may have deconverted a few statists, but did we ever accomplish anything major? States are still destroying lives, and barely anyone's listening. All we get is constant frustration, constant depression, and constant suffering.

Mass movements only foster frustration from their supporters, and the liberty movement is no different. We spend so much time debating, deconverting, sharing memes, videos, articles, and so on, but none of it accomplishes anything significant. We're still frustrated and depressed with the world, but no matter what we say or do, it does absolutely nothing to liberate people. Is this because, despite our fruitless efforts, we seek a sense of comfort and company with the movement in the face of a cruel statist world?

Perhaps this is why apolitical people, especially artists, are the happiest people you'll ever meet. They feel confident and peaceful in they're lives, they take pride and a sense of accomplishment in having created something, whether it be art, music, a garden, or so on. They don't concern themselves with mass movements and politics, they're not the kind of people to bombard themselves with yellow journalism about how the world sucks and huff n' puff bullshit that amounts to nothing in the end like any of the "Happenings" if you've been to /pol/.

I'm not claiming we should all forget about libertarianism, the true meaning of money, or the delusion of government. First, we should just ignore all the huff n' puff yellow journalism bullshit that serves no purpose but to frustrate or depress us, even from voluntaryist news sources. The only thing you get from reading an article or watching a video about how this or that tyrant or dark occultist got into power, or how these two countries might nuke each other is frusturation, anger and depression.

Second, we should channel are efforts into organizations with clear goals rather than mass movements with vague unachievable goals and no viable means to accomplish them. Agorism, as popular as it may be, is one of these movements, and relies on the notion of the black market outcompeting the state, but disregards the incentives of the people as well as a clear goal. Liberland and the Seasteading Institute have already started to accomplish their first goals.

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Venezuela

wasn't

real

socialism

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=le86H7Xfjrc

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The Art of the Argument

What did Stefan mean by this?

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Did Marx just BTFO himself?

Capital Ch.1 Sec.1

"Lastly nothing can have value, without being an object of utility. If the thing is useless, so is the labour contained in it; the labour does not count as labour, and therefore creates no value." - Marx

Yet utility is subjective.

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Opportunity to set up a liberty institute in NH

The campus of the former Daniel Webster College, located in Nashua, NH (a city of roughly 86,000 Granite Staters) is being auctioned off. I'm thinking this would be a great opportunity for liberty activists to pool their money, purchase the campus, and set up our own school with the objective of promoting liberty. Similar to how Hillsdale College teaches the liberal arts in a NeoCon fashion, or how about any other college teaches the liberal arts in a Marxist fashion, we should set up a Mises Institute-type school in the heart of Libertaria.

R: 84 / I: 10 / P: 13 [R] [G] [-]

Are Classical Liberals pretty much just moderated Social Democrats?

R: 86 / I: 29 / P: 13 [R] [G] [-]

Utah wants to ban porn, for your health and safety

How will the pornstars living in Utah like Asia Carers handle government intrusion?

https://governorblog.utah.gov/2016/04/governor-signs-anti-pornography-bills-declaring-public-health-crisis/

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anarcho capitalism in effect: a primer

by the same guy who made the "What libertarian are you" flowchart, that being me

how'd i do?

R: 19 / I: 7 / P: 13 [R] [G] [-]

https://theirontabletsofodin.blogspot.ca/ …feel free to spread around the net… my document 'the iron tablet of odin'

R: 10 / I: 4 / P: 13 [R] [G] [-]

Reading Club

Can we try this again? No one really tried when we decided to read 'The Moon is a Harsh Mistress'.

Discussing a chapter every three days or every week sounds good. Anyone interested? Fiction or Non-Fiction, doesn't matter.

'Human Action' by Mises could be a good first book.

R: 2 / I: 0 / P: 14 [R] [G] [-]

HAPPY ATLAS SHRUGGED DAY!

Today's September the second. According to The Journals of Ayn Rand, she began writing Atlas Shrugged on September 2, 1946.

- "A white rectangle hung over the city, imparting the date to the men in the streets below. In the rusty light of this evening’s sunset, the rectangle said: September 2."

- Eddie Willers walks through NYC and is bothered by the city's gigantic calendar announcing "September 2nd."

- Hank Rearden and Dagny Taggart take a vacation and discover an abandoned motor.

- Francisco D'Anconia's money speech is made on September 2nd at Jim and Cheryl Taggart's wedding.

- D'Anconia Copper is nationalized on September 2nd and the date on the calendar is replaced with "Brother, you asked for it!"

>"The people in the story are functioning, in their human moments, on old premises and principles, i.e., on the principles left over from the creators' world, the principles of the strikers—to the extent to which they exist and function as human beings at all. They do not realize it, of course. Their avowed principles are those of collectivism and altruism. But whenever they have to act upon, or rely upon, or appeal to, decency or sense—they are implying the principles of the creators. This has a desperate quality—particularly when someone points it out to them; they are counting on the ideas they have denounced and discarded. (Example: any appeal to honesty, honor, integrity, rational sense—or personal profit. Along these lines: Francisco d'Anconia pointing out the mistake of assuming that he wishes to make money.)"

R: 112 / I: 28 / P: 14 [R] [G] [-]

Besides rejecting the messiah, find a flaw.

If he was a Christian he would be perfect.

R: 0 / I: 0 / P: 14 [R] [G] [-]

Organized Crime

>Not allowed to own farms, change their status, or marry outside their social caste

>With limited prospects for the future, the Japanese Burakumin begin to criminalize. As gambling entered society, they were the ones that predominately ran the parlors. And now with this limited amount of wealth and power to protect, they formed gangs because the government wan't going to protect them. In fact, it was openly hostile to them. So now, almost 3 out of every 4 Yakuza members come from the Barakumin class."

R: 7 / I: 0 / P: 14 [R] [G] [-]

What's your opinion on this article, /liberty/?

http://www.businessinsider.com/gig-economy-milton-friedman-full-employment-wage-growth-2017-8

I don't see how Friedman's "assumption" is disproved in this article. It appears that dotcom businesses are able to respond more quickly to wage adjustments than other employers due to flexible wage contracts.

R: 9 / I: 0 / P: 14 [R] [G] [-]

Ok, I've found this shit in my hard disk, and i can't remember where i get it.

Btw, what do you think about it.

R: 14 / I: 0 / P: 14 [R] [G] [-]

Libertarians are just centrists in denial tbh

R: 3 / I: 1 / P: 14 [R] [G] [-]

petition to label george soros a terrorist!

For those who don't know! we need your help!

>>>/pol/10521219

R: 17 / I: 3 / P: 14 [R] [G] [-]

/liberty/'s own website

Also for The Book of /liberty/

https://bookofliberty.github.io/

Instead of waiting for months for a new book, now we have a website. Although I'm not the anon who originally had this idea, I'd still like to read the articles.

If you have a github account, open a pull request. If you just want your article published, post it ITT, I'll upload it. You can also message me at github or create a new paste at gist.github.com .

Git Repo : https://github.com/bookofliberty/bookofliberty.github.io

My git page : https://github.com/checkyourpremises

Because we're writing everything in markdown, I can generate a pdf out of this and host it on github. The website is hosted for free.

If someone can post the pdf of the ollllder books, that'd be great.

Markdown is the format in which you write documents. The site generator automatically converts them to webpages. Markdown is exactly like comment formatting here.

I don't care if it's a half-assed article, just post something. Everything can be sorted into categories first and the final articles can be pruned from the huge list.

What I am NOT going to do is put up links for pirated content on the website, or post copyrighted articles. I object to it morally, and it's get our website kicked for violating the terms of service. ALso, I'm not very comfortable with the idea of the website being used as a source for piracy. If you want to share links, do it on /liberty/ and not on the website.

R: 17 / I: 1 / P: 14 [R] [G] [-]

Hello I am U of SA how would I minimize the amount of tax moni the guv takes from me?

Where do I move and what do I do?

Is there a way to not at all?

R: 60 / I: 14 / P: 14 [R] [G] [-]

From: /leftypol/

Started on: halfchan /pol/, then to halfchan /mlp/, then to /mlpol/, then /leftypol/, and now you guys. Tick tock.

R: 13 / I: 0 / P: 14 [R] [G] [-]

David Friedman

Is it just me, or is David Friedman a bit marginalized by his fellow ancaps? I rarely find him cited or recommended in ancap books. I've heard he and Rothbard had some bad blood, and that he threw a shitfit during a debate with Bob Murphy. I'm aware of his Chicagoan approach to economics (that we need a (voluntary) central bank) and politics (that gobber munt is not inherently evil, just ineffecient). Also, that he's utilitarian. Still, he has some good ideas and Machinery of Freedom was a breddy gud book.

R: 2 / I: 0 / P: 14 [R] [G] [-]

what is ron paul's stance on "intellectual property"?

R: 17 / I: 1 / P: 14 [R] [G] [-]

Thoughts?

R: 89 / I: 14 / P: 14 [R] [G] [-]

Anarcho-Transhumanism Thread

(Why is there no anarcho-transhumanist flag?)

It seems to me that technology is the only way to achieve true anarchism. I know a lot of anarcho-transhumanists/antechs are leftist, but honestly technology could lead to the means of production becoming robots that are cryptographically verified as belonging to you, so private property would be able to defend itself. Capitalism is an economic technology itself. I think in the future, we could all be capitalists and design shit and then use our personal robot workers to make stuff to sell to each other, in a totally mutual capitalist economy, and there would also be a lot of things people could make with 3D printers/additive manufacturing machines once they get really advanced. Sounds absurd now, but with how fast companies in China are automating shit, it's the long term trend and it seems like it's not super far off now. Some statists are starting to use this to argue for ubi or even communism, but I think the end of direct work will actually involve widespread advancement into everyone being capitalistic. Even now a lot of people work from their computers, a means of production they own.

Another thing is that with full automation welfare wouldn't be needed, because charity would become exponential (sort of, it would be limited by resources and land obviously), since as soon as you can get a human level robot and a super-advanced 3D printer, you get free income from the capital you own, and can then use that to gather resources and energy to build more robots, so everyone's living standards would shoot way up, and things would get pretty comfy.

The primary sticking block to anarcho-capitalism is that most people are too weak for it, but with technology that could change, because things would be a lot cheaper, and there would be high levels of automation, but potentially down the line due to transhumanism meaning that rugged individualism doesn't involve a massive culling of people who aren't rugged enough for it. That's the only way I can see the majority of the public eventually coming round to anarcho-capitalism and slowly abandoning statism, because most people want to be free, they are just too weak and frightened to be anything but slaves to politicians.

Obviously, wealth inequality would increase massively with transhumanism, but none of that shit matters if living standards as a whole rise massively, and the incapable are able to gain new capabilities through technology.

So, I think we'll have to wait a while until an anarchist society is likely, but in the meantime we should probably make sure that we at least push back against centralized militaristic government so that we don't get some kind of skynet scenario due to the military industrial complex. Statism would make AI more dangerous because it would centralize it and put in control of more things, leaving no counterbalancing intelligence. The libertarian party should probably promote upcoming technologies as solutions to the government problem. If you think about it, cryptocurrencies and existing (if shitty) 3D printers are just the start of that movement. That's going to be the successful way of getting libertarianism to be popular, in preparation for future technologies that make take us to anarchy.

We definitely shouldn't let commies monopolize the full automation meme, otherwise they'll be positioned politically to take over later in this Century.

R: 29 / I: 2 / P: 14 [R] [G] [-]

So what's to stop collusion, and price-fixing from happening in ancapistan?

What's to prevent a private LEO from obtaining enough power to become a de-facto state by itself?

How would legal action even work in ancapistan?

R: 4 / I: 0 / P: 15 [R] [G] [-]

/liberty/ goes to the police station

R: 0 / I: 0 / P: 15 [R] [G] [-]

.

R: 17 / I: 2 / P: 15 [R] [G] [-]

What are the arguments used by Classical Liberals and Minarchists regarding the tendency of small/limited States to grow over time?

R: 4 / I: 1 / P: 15 [R] [G] [-]

Taiping Rebellion

You know, /liberty/, every once in a while I just pick a random atrocity, famine or tyrant from my mental list and check what's to blame. Almost every time, the results are among the following:

>Democracy

>Socialism

>Egalitarianism

>Collectivism

>Ooga booga how do into civilization

Lately, I checked for Hong Xiquan and his Taiping Rebellion. This rebellion killed about twenty million people during the 19th century, although very few people have heard about it. I looked into it, and here's an excerpt from Wikipedia I found:

>Within the land that it controlled, the Taiping Heavenly Army established a totalitarian, theocratic, and highly militarized rule.[10]

>The subject of study for the examinations for officials changed from the Confucian classics to the Bible.

>Private property ownership was abolished and all land was held and distributed by the state.[11]

>A solar calendar replaced the lunar calendar.

>Foot binding was banned. (The Hakka people had never followed this tradition, and consequently the Hakka women had always been able to work the fields.[12])

>Society was declared classless and the sexes were declared equal. At one point, for the first time in Chinese history civil service exams were held for women. Some sources record that Fu Shanxiang, an educated woman from Nanjing, passed them and became an official at the court of the Eastern King.

>The sexes were rigorously separated.[13] There were separate army units consisting of women only; until 1855, not even married couples were allowed to live together or have sexual relations.[14]

>The Qing-dictated queue hairstyle was abandoned in favor of wearing the hair long.

>Other new laws were promulgated including the prohibition of opium, gambling, tobacco, alcohol, polygamy (including concubinage), slavery, and prostitution. These all carried death penalties.

Abolition of private property and a classless society. I rest my case.

R: 52 / I: 8 / P: 15 [R] [G] [-]

use-value

So, as we all know from experience, an argument over the theory of value with a Marxist will ultimately devolve into one of three things:

>Adam Smith

>Prices are reflections of exchange-value but fluctuate around an intrinsic value

>Representing intrinsic value through labor is non-arbitrary because reasons (usually an assertion that all value, including all utility and scarcity somehow, is ultimately dependent upon labor)

The second and third points are usually addressed with counterfactuals. However,

what I see as the most flawed component of Marx's theory of value–use-value–is seldom addressed beyond our allusions to marginal utility. Use-value is tantamount to Marx's concept of product/commodity utility, which exists as a disinct concept from his exchange-value (which only manifests when commodities are being sold). Because Marx rejects consumer sovereignty as a market force, he must assert that resource allocation is conducted by the capitalist on the basis of use-value independent of mutual economic action through exchange, implying that the capitalist has some special insight on the inherent value of the commodity being produced (perhaps through labor). Kant would be rolling in his grave. Neoclassical theory asserts that exchange under subjective value involves both parties profiting due to higher valuation of the other party's commodity and vice versa, resulting in an equilibrium price via an agreed upon means of exchange. Marxists, however, contend that all exchanges occur because one party holds no use-value for the exchanged commodity, resulting in the producer profiting an assymetrical amount. The flaw in this should be obvious–if this were the case, all exchanges would soon occur for no profit, as the consumer would successfully negotiate lower and lower prices as the producer does not value the good beyond its exchange value, which fluctuates around an intrinsic value that supposedly aligns with the cost of labor input (this, I believe, is one of Marx's "contradictions of capitalism" which causes the rate of profit to fall, along with the one about consumers being unable to afford commodities because labor value decreases). However, this is observably not the case, as all commodities–even those that are extremely cheap to produce–must be sold for a profit, otherwise no non-coercive production would have ever occurred or have continued to occur. If Marx's theory held true, consumers would quickly see trade as some sort of elaborate trick where the commodity producer invents a price above the cost of production resulting in a swift end to all markets, while in reality it is obvious to all economic actors that the profit motive is what gives the producer incentive to produce against risk. Of course, Marx obfuscates this with several dubious sociological theories. Thus, we must adopt a view of aggregate utiliy that synthesizes both use and exchange in order to understand the market. It would seem that Marx tries to rationalize his theory of social relations with ad-hoc economic theory rather than deduce his economic theory from his theory of social relations.

R: 107 / I: 21 / P: 15 [R] [G] [-]

What type of libertarian are you? flowchart

Made this just now. Thought it'd be interesting, since I haven't seen anybody try to cover all the modern libertarian schools of thought as they are relevant now.

R: 11 / I: 6 / P: 15 [R] [G] [-]

You can't break the NAP if you don't recognize it.

R: 5 / I: 0 / P: 15 [R] [G] [-]

Please, educate me

You have a country with high unemployment, low inflation and a relatively high Gini ratio like Spain or Greece.

Then you implement a basic income raised through taxation of the wealthiest people (let's say half the minimum wage or so). With that extra income people start consuming more and aggregate demand goes up. Since the producers of goods need to remain competitive they increase their production and hire previously unemployed people instead of raising selling prices and then the aggregate demand doesn't cause an excessive inflation. Et, voilà, the unemployment and deflation problem is gone.

I know this must be wrong from a libertarian perspective. Could you explain to me where is the flaw in my logic or my knowledge of economics?

R: 45 / I: 17 / P: 15 [R] [G] [-]

What must be done

We all know that anarcho-capitalism, austrian economic thought, and liberty in general are the answers to several of the societal problems we face today, but it seems that putting these ideas in action is not getting the focus it needs. Instead of creating local communities and convincing our neighbours, we focus on arguing against unemployed communists on /leftypol/. Instead of discussing how we can get these amazing ideas out to the general population, we are driving our heads into theory and arguing over semantics and trying to prove for the fifteenth thousandth time that roads can be built by private industry.

We all know the theory and know the counter-arguments, so I suggest that much more focus must be placed on general strategy and how to popularise our ideas, because it will be impossible to reach and maintain the stage of society where the state is abolished if people still believe in the state (most of the time, they aren't even aware of ideas contradicting the state).

People usually listen to reasoned arguments, and they usually aren't incredibly stupid save for malicious ideologues. Opposition to the ideas of liberty is usually not based on malice or reasoned foundations, but because someone else in a position of authority (societal or personal) has told them that social-democratic ideas are reasonable, usually these ideas are delivered gift-wrapped in appeals to emotion and other things ancaps would never be caught dead doing.

It seems to me that it is impossible to gain support by encouraging people to read Human Action. Supports of anarcho-capitalism needs to seriously consider a rebranding and also somehow coordinate strategy to popularise and "giftwrap" our ideas in an accessible and easily digestible format. We must adopt the playbook of our predecessors who achieved massive social change - that is, appeal to the average citizen (who I can assure you does not care about comparisons between economic calculation and central planning).

Appealing to the average citizen this way is NOT done through distribution of the bibles of anarcho-capitalism written by people like Hayek and Mises (with the exception of intellectually-aligned people). No, in order to convince the general public, we have to become a trendy movement, a movement that people attach to so they can virtue-signal to their friends that they are progressive and forward-looking. This is the kind of marketing we must adopt in order to gain mass adoption, not complex infographics as to why the federal reserve is useless. Most importantly, we must show how our ideas will impact the average citizen and push marketing on the practical sides of things, not the theoretical side of things.

This is what must be done, not pointless intellectual circlejerks on youtube comments.

R: 23 / I: 0 / P: 15 [R] [G] [-]

We should turn 'economic authoritarianism' into a meme

R: 29 / I: 1 / P: 15 [R] [G] [-]

Why do libertarians love Greek and Roman shit so much? All the time I see libertarians referencing Ancient Greece and/or Rome (agorism, Mercatus, Cato, Hydra; giving themselves new names like Eris, Antigone, Eleutherios, Invictus). What gives?

R: 61 / I: 17 / P: 15 [R] [G] [-]

Group identities

People clearly take energy and pride from identities that are superior to the merely personal and human. In fact ethnic and national pride correlates positively with mental health, despite allegations about schizophrenic Jew-haters. No wonder the far right attracts so much enthusiasm, despite an incredibly hostile climate from the elites. Attacks on pride and solidarity feel bad because they actually make us unwell.

The state plays an important role in protecting and cultivating group identities. The question is- how far would they be able to survive and flourish in a libertarian society without government borders, public education, nation states themselves to be loyal to, etc?

R: 15 / I: 1 / P: 15 [R] [G] [-]

Has /liberty/ been, dare I say it, BTFO?

R: 17 / I: 3 / P: 15 [R] [G] [-]

I'm not sure where there is a larger aggregation of monarchists so I might as well ask here. What legitimizes a monarch? "Bloodline" is not an argument, by the way.

But even if it were, what about countries that are historically without a monarch or their only monarch is imposed by foreign powers. Assuming most monarchists are edgy burgers, how would you bring about your style of monarchy to the USA or whatever state after a presumed balkanization?

R: 7 / I: 0 / P: 16 [R] [G] [-]

Private Liability

A private institution is liable for their property and how it is used. In an AnCap society, if a university on a major road for example accepts more students than they can house resulting in increases in traffic and increased collisions resulting from large bodies of additional students parking across the street and using crosswalks/commuting to school, causing delays to other sectors of the community such as industry and utilities, then the university is (partially) liable for these effects since they knowingly utilized their property under the assumption that they would force private actors to utilize surrounding space that they likely do not own.

In such a situation the university (or company or mall or etc.) should be liable for either increasing their housing, easing their contribution in travel/transportation (whether through buses, overhead bridges, etc.), or paying into increased traffic accidents caused by students commuting to the community.

To disagree is to suggest that private institutions deserve subsidized profits. This is perfectly in line with private property and ownership.

R: 20 / I: 3 / P: 16 [R] [G] [-]

wtf im a commie now

R: 15 / I: 6 / P: 16 [R] [G] [-]

 真実 

 

米国は自らを自由・平等の国というが、それは全くの偽りだ。

 

ヴァージニア州での、南北戦争時の南軍将軍の銅像に関しての「保全すべき」派 (多くは白人至上主義者であると思われる) と「撤去すべき」派 (多くは反白人至上主義者であると思われる) の衝突で、トランプは珍しく双方を平等に扱ったが、米国社会の多くがそれに不満を表明している。

 

ヴァージニア州知事にいたっては、白人至上主義団体の者らに対し、「米国にいらないから、出ていけ」といった人権侵害も甚だしい言動を自慢げにする始末だ。

 

米国には「内心の自由」がない。

 

米国人の多くには、「主義(思想など内心にあるもの)」と「主張(他者に向けて表現されたもの)」の区別がつけられない。

 

米国には「集会・結社の自由」がない。

 

米国人の多くは、特定の思想・信条を持つ者らの集会を認めないのを、当然だと思っている。

 

米国には「平等」や「公正さ」といったものが著しく欠如している。

 

ちょっと前のロス・アンジェルスの暴動に対してもそうだったが、「人種差別反対」と唱えていれば、多少の乱暴や狼藉が許されてしまう。

 

米国で「反人種主義」を唱えて運動している者らは、「人種」ではなく、米国籍であるという「国籍」、ないし米国で暮らしているという「居所」で、他国の人に大きな面をして、他国の人を差別的に扱いたがっているだけだ。

 

R: 188 / I: 36 / P: 16 [R] [G] [-]

Before you go: "yet another pedo thread go fuck yourself", Consider the following:

>It's legal to own and distribute videos of people being tortured and killed(including kids) but it's illegal to own pictures of naked little girls making sexy poses.

>it's legal to cut away a part of newborn's penis but it's illegal to give a blowjob to a 15yo boy

>It's legal for 16yos to fuck each other(in some states) but they can be arrested if they record themselves.

>It's legal for 16yo to enlist to the military(potentially getting sent to where they can be killed) but illegal for them to be recorded furing sex.

>it's legal to do porn in general but prostitution is illegal.

Thoughts on this? How do we change it?

(If you don't agree debate me.)

R: 9 / I: 6 / P: 16 [R] [G] [-]

Is this really the average "libertarian" in the LP of America?

>tl;dw

>guy planned to attend a free speech rally

>antifa on Twitter find out and report him to his boss as being a nazi

>he gets fired

>he talks to the antifa and befriends them

>gives them his email address and phone number

>works with them to stop other free speech rallies in order to "avoid more violence"

>is attacked by both alt-right and antifa

>still has no job

>feels like he has no friends

Even Tom almost lost his temper and asked him if these are values he would to teach his children(befriend and trust those who got you fired and called you a nazi)? If I were to use a /pol/ word to best describe him, it would be cuck.

R: 15 / I: 4 / P: 16 [R] [G] [-]

New Book of /liberty/ - Ultimate Edition

As you all, we once started a project where we collected essays and put them into one book, called the Book of /liberty/. As you might also know, we had quite some leftists on this board back then and weren't quite as rabid towards each other. As a result, the Book of /liberty/ was filled with disdainful and disgusting leftist falsehoods, including an essay by Bob Black on how we should go back to the ancient times where people lived a more playful existence, unburdened by work. Not sure whether this carefree and relaxed life referred to the Helots or to the hordes of Timur. Who cares about historical reality when you can bitch about your cubicle job all day, anyway?

Not satisfied with the results, I started a new project, the New Book of /liberty/. The thread got slided to oblivion before we got more than two or three essays. That was a little more than a year ago, I think, but I remain undeterred and would like to start a similar project.

This time, we would write the thing ourselves, not create an anthology of pre-released stuff. Chapters could deal with topics like crime, military defense, caring for the poor, the role of religion in libertarianism, the errors of communism, and so on. Or, and I like this idea even more, we could have a general discussion on ethics and economics and then go on to describe each form of government/society with pro- and counter-arguments, or just counter-arguments if there's a consensus they're shit.

We got a lot of smart heads here and many different viewpoints, so I think that even if this went nowhere, we would at least end up with an interesting collection of facts and ideas.

R: 15 / I: 2 / P: 16 [R] [G] [-]

/r/socialism unveils its demographics. Extrapolatable to /leftypol/.

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1z9MdCiO-0Dlomd1MaOxv7aOZJabobYTPD7wyYXdq0OA/viewanalytics

R: 14 / I: 2 / P: 16 [R] [G] [-]

How would private borders for communities/covens/societies/nations work in Anarcho-Capitalism?

How would one know where the borders of one nation ends and the ones of another begins?

R: 4 / I: 2 / P: 16 [R] [G] [-]

 アメリカ人には人権への尊重といったものがない 

 

「内心の自由」は、人権の中でも最も重要なもののひとつである。

 

「人身の自由」には刑罰における自由刑 (懲役や禁錮など) などによる例外はあるが、自由かつ民主的な社会では「内心の自由」には例外がない。

 

中国には国家に都合のよい思想を強制するような刑罰 (「思想教育・矯正」などといわれるもの) があり、中国は「内心の自由」を否定している。

 

これが、中国が人権を著しく蹂躙していると非難されてきた理由の大きなひとつである。

  

最近のアメリカでの「人種差別反対」を唱える示威行動には、他者 (多くは白人至上主義者であると思われる) に対し、白人至上主義という主義を内心にあることをあからさまに排撃するところがある。

 

それは、他者の人権への尊重・配慮といったものの欠如を如実に表している。

 

 

白人至上主義者であろうとも、それに基ずく集会は、「集会の自由」で守られるべきものである。

 

「集会の自由」も人権の一つである。

 

最近のアメリカでの「人種差別反対」を唱える示威行動には、他者 (多くは白人至上主義者であると思われる) に対し、白人至上主義者の集会をあからさまに排撃するところがある。

 

それは、他者の人権への尊重・配慮といったものの欠如を如実に表している。

 

 

白人至上主義者であろうとも、それに基ずく結社は、「結社の自由」で守られるべきものである。

 

「結社の自由」も人権の一つである。

 

最近のアメリカでの「人種差別反対」を唱える示威行動には、他者 (多くは白人至上主義者であると思われる) に対し、白人至上主義者の結社をあからさまに排撃するところがある。

 

それは、他者の人権への尊重・配慮といったものの欠如を如実に表している。

 

 

「差別」とは、「思想・信条」ではなく、「行為」である。

 

「平等」も人権の一つである。

 

これのためなどと言って他者の人権を侵害するような行為を為すのは、自由かつ民主的な社会の破壊でしかない。

 

  

R: 12 / I: 1 / P: 16 [R] [G] [-]

actual moderation?

sorry about the meta thread, as I am typing this I realize I should probably just hijack a shitposting thread but whatever

now I know a lot of us constantly ask for better moderation in regards to shitposts because it is lacking in some peoples eyes, but that very lack of moderation left me surprised when I actually saw some deleted posts just now

I probably read those shitposts days ago but I cannot for the life of me remember what they were about, they sorta all blend together in my memory, so what were they about?

also general meta thread so that my thread isnt useless, come here to complain about or praise the moderation I guess.

R: 8 / I: 0 / P: 16 [R] [G] [-]

/srz/

>>>/srz/ is a board about protecting free speech by way of user-enabled action throughout 8chan and the net. if you like free speech, be sure to stop by!

I figured I might advertise here since the board has a non-authoritarian bent and people here might appreciate it. We're a tiny board, but we're looking to get bigger!

R: 40 / I: 6 / P: 16 [R] [G] [-]

Confederate statues

How does /liberty/ feel about them?

R: 13 / I: 6 / P: 16 [R] [G] [-]

Why is the GOP throwing the fight?

I completely do not understand why the GOP isn't fighting back against all this bullshit, because they are currently at their strongest since the end of the Civil War. Consider: If the Democrats win their best possible outcome in 2018—that's winning every state that Hillary won AND winning every state where Hillary lost within 3 percentage points–they lose five senate seats.

That bears repeating: If Democrats win every blue and every purple state in the midterms, they still face a net LOSS of five senators.

If the GOP wins just two more state legislature majorities they could amend the Constitution without a single Democratic vote.

The average age of the House Republican leadership is 47. The average age of the House Democratic leadership is 76. That means in about 10 years, everyone who would've been in Hillary Clinton's cabinet will be dead, and all the Republicans will be in the prime of their careers. It's possible that Donald Trump could have three additional Supreme Court appointments before the end of his first term.

The Democrats spent the entire last election shrieking that Trump was a white supremacist and calling his supporters ebil nazis, and lost. Their response? To double down on this idiocy. Who are they trying to *win over* with this statue crusade? It appeals to no one but their rapidly shrinking base of psychopaths who are incapable of presenting themselves in a way that doesn't appear like a creepy fucking cult.

So, having said all that, what's the fucking deal? Why are they just sitting there and letting this happen?

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Will an anarchist society have private sector imperialism- funded by stock markets, waging war through mercenaries, and conquering poorly armed native tribes?

The prospect of qt 14 year old war brides might enable us to recruit a lot of people to our cause

R: 12 / I: 0 / P: 16 [R] [G] [-]

are stereotypes just generalisations? so are they generally more true than untrue?

R: 14 / I: 1 / P: 17 [R] [G] [-]

hold me /liberty/

R: 29 / I: 7 / P: 17 [R] [G] [-]

I've been wondering, do you guys have any empirical evidence to back up the claims to your ideology? Are markets not freer now in not just the rest of the world, but in places like America too, than they were nearly a century ago? If so, then why have real wages been stagnant, while labor, and business de-regulations continue to be doled out.

R: 18 / I: 6 / P: 17 [R] [G] [-]

The Pholosopher

Damn! This woman really makes me to give her bitcoins in exchange for fucking her.

What does /liberty/ think about the pholosopher ?

R: 28 / I: 1 / P: 17 [R] [G] [-]

Austria vs Chicago

Are they very much the same on the Macro level while only disagreeing on the Micro level? I enjoy Friedman and Sowell but haven't yet checked out the Austrian school.

R: 91 / I: 10 / P: 17 [R] [G] [-]

Why do young people and especially millenials seem so attracted to communism/socialism? It seems like everyone has his edgy teenager phase where he thinks he has the world figured out.

Sheltered leftists that had everything handed to them, college kids who have not experienced the real world yet, or some punk who has never worked in his entire life. Why are all these retards attracted to communism like a moth to a flame? Is it because it appeals to their FEELINGS more than logic or facts?

It "sounds" good but they stop at the theory part. It's the evil faceless corporate white man swimming in money like Scrooge McDuck that's keeping us "The People(tm)" down.

It's like they are completely oblivious to the horrors of socialism and how it has killed millions of people. Every socialist country ends up in failure or total collapse, people starving and eating cats/pidgeons to survive.

How do they fail such basic historic education?

R: 6 / I: 1 / P: 17 [R] [G] [-]

>>>/liberty/

More like

>>>/slavery/

R: 27 / I: 5 / P: 17 [R] [G] [-]

How do you stop the state with Agorism if it KNOWS you're doing it?

They can just underpay the important programs instead of the less-important ones, boom, we go back to the original problem of the free market not being able to fix the problem fast enough. Hell, maybe the money that was going to police would start going towards cracking private companies to prevent it form happening.

To promote agorism you have to share the tactics with people, and if you have to share tax evasion, the letter soup companies will be on it.

R: 65 / I: 21 / P: 17 [R] [G] [-]

"Anarcho"-capitalism is not real anarchism

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Random Dump

All of these should be /liberty/-related, though.

R: 28 / I: 7 / P: 17 [R] [G] [-]

Capitalism and Culture

Despite that you're derided as not actual anarchists or at best anti-statists, you (including non-ancaps here) share a similar notion with the rest of them in regards to society. Unlike Marxists that draw directly from the material conditions that influence society in an ever progressing dialectic, anarchists of many strides hope for a state of affairs to be established until it is overturned - that is, not outdone by its own mechanization, but voluntarily or subversively changed. To paraphrase ancap anon when asked how will they maintain an anarcho-capitalist society: "If the people decide to organize differently, they are free to". It seems to me that people here treat culture as a separate medium of society, generally unrelated to economics. In short, culture is born out of the ideas sown and presented in society. Even shorter - idealism.

While I don't have any particular problem with that even if you disagree with my conclusion since I don't come here to berate you, I'm still curious about your take on culture. There is this notion of "Cultural Marxism" (the "subversive" change I noted above) which I'm sure many on this board subscribe to; our current "degenerate" state is due to Marxist subversion (I would be very grateful if you could point me where Adorno wrote about huwhite genocide or Marcuse about twerking), but have you ever considered that it is the result capitalism's low bar to capitalize on the most basic and immediate appeals while hopping on popular trends? Do you really think it would have been any different in your ideal society or even the current one without "degeneracy"? Is it really that far-fetched to assume advertisement would eventually spiral to provocative sex appeal or that the porn industry wouldn't exist without (((them))) as some seem to believe?

I know, I know, "physical removal lol!" - but doesn't capitalism inherently strive for laissez faire which ultimately leads to globalization and mingling with other cultures, ideas and so forth? Don't you want the cheapest prices by ordering wood from Brazil in large quantities instead of buying it per plank from the local woodsman? How do you prevent a Saudi oil magnate from buying a piece of land in the center of town plus its streets to build a mosque and spread his religion?

On top of that, why do you blame "Cultural Marxism" for this when Marxism/Communism (according to you) existed in the USSR, and yet the post-USSR states are the most conservative of Europe and the entire Western world. Gender roles were reinforced there and fags were imprisoned while you had gay pride parades and feminism. So Communism is both "millions-billions-trillions of deaths" and everything that existed in the USSR, and yet in the same time Communism is cultural developments that happened in the West allegedly precipitated (suspiciously I haven't seen any evidence by any of the retards spouting this meme) by Marxist intellectuals that were against the USSR, so which is the real Communism/Marxism? Is it what happened in the USSR or your guldural margism boogeyman?

So in conclusion, how do you see culture develop in your capitalism society? How would you remedy the current one if you see any issue with it? What did ancaps/capitalist thinkers write about culture, if ever? What do you think of serialism?

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MUH ROADS

>One savvy investor has bought up a whole street in the city's most exclusive neighborhood for a mere $90,000.

>It turns out the homeowners association for Presidio Terrace failed to pay a $14-a-year property tax, something that owners of all 181 private streets in San Francisco must do, the Chronicle reported.

>So the city's tax office put the property up for sale at the cost of $994 in an online auction to regain unpaid back taxes, penalties and interest. The couple eventually won the street with a $90,100 bid in an April 2015 auction.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/san-francisco-street-sells-90k-225021750.html

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Mob question

so how are you libertines planning to deal with mafia?

Cosa Nostra will fuck you up and you will be forced to pay taxes to them

R: 40 / I: 4 / P: 17 [R] [G] [-]

If someone is going to jump off the roof of a tall building, and I restrain him, am I breaching the NAP?

R: 30 / I: 5 / P: 17 [R] [G] [-]

fuck

why is antropology so sjw pc cucked?

R: 4 / I: 1 / P: 17 [R] [G] [-]

>every other ideology is increasing, even shit ones like white nationalism

>Libtards are growing more irrelevant.

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As I am sure you are all aware, antifa and the alt right have been enjoying widespread increases in power popularity thanks to the liberal media and their penchant for sensationalization. It is of my opinion that we lucky few rest at the cusp of a new era, and possibly the dankest global conflict since world war 2. It is also of my opinion with the rise of both communism and fascism, it is now time for libertarianism to take center stage, lest we be thrown by the wayside for yet another historical cycle. It is time for the rise of alt liberty. Ayn Rand once said libertarians were just objectivists without fangs. Let's prove that bitch wrong and march in the streets.

R: 5 / I: 0 / P: 18 [R] [G] [-]

What does /liberty/ think of helicopters?

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Can't tell if things are getting better or worse

https://archive.is/ykiUm

Teachers union might be the most cancerous one yet.

R: 52 / I: 7 / P: 18 [R] [G] [-]

what laws in the usa make you angry or sad?

R: 44 / I: 3 / P: 18 [R] [G] [-]

"Intellectual property" breaks markets and ruins capitalism.

Free market resource production is supposed to tend toward a commodity equilibrium where everyone is putting rutabagas onto the market and competing on price results in efficient rutabaga pricing. Instead, you have twelve million different retards trying to sell Maxturbago Brand POWER RUTABAGA cups with Vitamin C compatible with the Maxturbago Juice Fuzion Juice System and it just results in mass retardation and confusion.

R: 9 / I: 1 / P: 18 [R] [G] [-]

Oh no where will I LARP as a libertarian while advocating extreme authoritarianism now?

R: 32 / I: 5 / P: 18 [R] [G] [-]

Left-libertarianism doesn't exist. Just a reminder.

Second image is much more accurate. The true political spectrum is a triangle

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Towing a car vs stealing a car

I was walking back from work today, when I saw a moving van get towed down the street. I'd assume that the towing company would claim that they have a legal right to charge money for the van's return. However, there was also probably stuff inside the van, belonging to people unaffiliated with the moving company (except as clients). This got me thinking:

Can somebody explain what differentiates stealing a car and holding it ransom vs towing a car and charging for its return? Is it the fact that the car was on private property without permission? If so, what stops people from claiming "towing rights" over anything on their property? Can I hold someone's shoes for $100 because they walked on my carpet without wiping their feet? Can I lock people in my basement until their family gives me $10,000 because they trespassed on my property? How would property rights be enforced with regards to towing in an minarchist society? Would you imagine it being different in an ancap society?

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Sorry my ignorance, but:

Is it possible to have free trade without open border?

I mean, letting people exchange their products in another country without transfer themselves in it.

R: 16 / I: 2 / P: 18 [R] [G] [-]

Decentralized Militant Anarchism

I am not advocating any of the following, FBI. Anything illegal in this thread is purely for theoretical discussion and thought experiments.

If the following tactics are applied on a large enough scale, they will work synergistically to crash the system.

>Welfare Scamming

>Agorism

>Destruction of Government Property

>Permaculture

>3D Printed Guns

>Memes Sowing Distrust of Authority

>Memes which inform people on how to do any of the above

If you have any more ideas to add to the list, or if you want to discuss any of the ideas in more detail, please do. That is what this thread is about.

R: 81 / I: 15 / P: 18 [R] [G] [-]

/anarcho/

Hey, I just claimed this dead board since n1x hadn't been using it for a few months thank god. I'm going to make it more neutral, so any input would be nice, especially from the lefty anons here, since they make up most of the userbase.

R: 5 / I: 0 / P: 18 [R] [G] [-]

My ego

As an anarcho-egoist I'm not a weak spirit like you other anrchofags who are too weak to think by yourself. You just can't argue with me

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You will get chipped -- Eventually

https://archive.fo/WeMPB

>“It will happen to everybody,” says Noelle Chesley, 49, associate professor of sociology at the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee. “But not this year, and not in 2018. Maybe not my generation, but certainly that of my kids.”

>Gene Munster, an investor and analyst at Loup Ventures, is an advocate for augmented reality, virtual reality and other new technologies. He thinks embedded chips in human bodies is 50 years away. “In 10 years, Facebook, Google, Apple and Tesla will not have their employees chipped,” he says. “You’ll see some extreme forward-looking tech people adopting it, but not large companies.”

Why is everything getting worse?

R: 5 / I: 3 / P: 18 [R] [G] [-]

Local Liberty Newspaper Thread

New issue of The Front Range Voluntaryist is out. Thoughts?

Post your local liberty newspapers/newsletters here.

R: 58 / I: 6 / P: 18 [R] [G] [-]

To what extent should a nation state and/or a government exist?

R: 34 / I: 2 / P: 19 [R] [G] [-]

AHAHAHAHA YOU SPOOKED NERDS WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO ENFORCE SPOOKY SHIT LIKE PRIVET PROPERTY JUST TAKE WHAT YOUR EGOS WILLS YOU SPOOKED KIDS AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAH

R: 137 / I: 26 / P: 19 [R] [G] [-]

Google fire employee who made internal memo

http://dailycaller.com/2017/08/07/google-fires-engineer-who-wrote-anti-diversity-memo/

>Document in question

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3914586/Googles-Ideological-Echo-Chamber.pdf

They purged the wrongthinker from their bubble for his heretical thoughts.

Let's discuss!

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Libertarian National Anthem

R: 1 / I: 0 / P: 19 [R] [G] [-]

WEST

777♥♥♥

R: 8 / I: 0 / P: 19 [R] [G] [-]

Thoughts on the North Korea-Trump-Conflict that's knocking at the door? Me and mamma got a bit more optimistic now that Japan agreed to shoot down any missile aimed at Guam. The Japanese are not warmongers and they don't want a war right at their doorstep. Chances are they want to deescalate the situation with this.

R: 33 / I: 4 / P: 19 [R] [G] [-]

/leftypol/ on the brink of mutiny

It is funny how that works.

https://8ch.net/leftypol/res/1819501.html

R: 11 / I: 1 / P: 19 [R] [G] [-]

Labor: "Ticking Time Bomb" Edition

http://archive.is/k6HvS

""Companies are running out of workers to hire to do the job or even train to do the work"

Meanwhile people are burning their diplomas. Let's give some more subsidies to education to fix it.

R: 9 / I: 3 / P: 19 [R] [G] [-]

/leftypol/ here,

After the revolution how would you want to be executed? I was thinking of the firing line, but you would just complain about receiving subsidized bullets.

R: 89 / I: 19 / P: 19 [R] [G] [-]

almond activator

Seriously, what is the difference between the libertarian left and libertarian right? A "libertarian conservative" and "libertarian liberal" government are the same thing because the non-Authoritarian philosophy is inherently free of enforcing independent ideas. One can personally be libleft or libright but a government cannot.

Also mutualism is authoritarian because people are being forced to work for each other

Thoughts?

R: 35 / I: 8 / P: 19 [R] [G] [-]

https://www.texasobserver.org/the-rise-and-fall-of-the-freest-little-city-in-texas/amp/

Looks like libertarianism can't work in real life.

R: 36 / I: 7 / P: 19 [R] [G] [-]

Christian Anarchism

Daily reminder that Christian "Anarchism" is not anarchism. The core of their argument is the fact that "only god can judge them and he is their sole ruler". Analogically, I could call myself an "African Anarchist" basing my ideology upon the premise that "only black people can rule me". How anarchist would that be? Replacing the social authority with divine authority and human laws with Ten Commandments is as far from anarchism as you can get.

R: 3 / I: 1 / P: 19 [R] [G] [-]

I've devised the world's first greatest and universally encompassing political spectrum chart ever. This blows the 4 squares or horseshoe theory out of the water with it's scope and succinctness: I present to you the Political Gondola.

R: 2 / I: 0 / P: 19 [R] [G] [-]

This might not be an interesting thread. But what works for me, in terms of explaining the link between welfare and single mother rates, is the idea that welfare makes it possible to be a single mother.

The idea that people were becoming single mothers in order to get benefits never took of on me, because the child is often more expensive than the benefits.

What makes sense is that the welfare state makes women able to become single mothers, and they do so because they want to have children but don't want to be married or are unable to get someone to stay with them.

R: 49 / I: 12 / P: 19 [R] [G] [-]

What single human being would you say has done the most damage to America?

R: 135 / I: 42 / P: 19 [R] [G] [-]

Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread

QTDDTOTT

I'll start:

Just realized I have friends who are low-key members of antifa in my neighborhood and antifa has labeled our local AnCap newspaper as "NeoNazi propaganda."

What do?

R: 30 / I: 14 / P: 20 [R] [G] [-]

Venezuela: the' It's not real Socialism but all the protestors are paid CIA drugdealers' edition.

Let's just have a thread dedicated to Venezuela and all the wonderfulness of the situation since it really only gets better and better by the day, all hail the glorious socialist revolution.

>Maduro inaugurates contentious Venezuela assembly

https://archive.is/yo72N

>40 countries protest Venezuela's new assembly amid fraud accusations

https://archive.is/RrZQx

>Delta Airlines plans to suspend all flights to Venezuela

http://archive.is/D5DD3

>Snipers being deployed in Vegas de Tariba, Táchira

https://twitter.com/AlbertoRT51/status/891708367235932160

> Venezuela arrests over political uprising

http://archive.is/j1e4v

> Maduro tightens his grips on power

http://archive.is/VnAKo

So what's your speculations /liberty/? Do you think things are going to get better? Worse? Do you think the protestors are paid? Do you think that maybe they just didn't appropriate enough businesses for the state?

R: 33 / I: 7 / P: 20 [R] [G] [-]

Methodology General

This is the thread for people that want to prove that praxeology is magic or that the historical school did nothing wrong.

Picrel is an early post of mine. I remember some anon wrote a very good, constructive critique of it where he talked about Hayek, but sadly, I didn't save that.

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Physical Removal

Do you support it? To what extent? What kinds of people would you remove?

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Externalities

In a society without government intervention in the operations of businesses, how would an individual deal with negative externalities?

For example, Bob, Josh and John have their houses built by Barneys railway. Barney uses his railway to send trains back and forth from city A to city B, while passing the houses of Bob, Josh and John the trains cause excess noise that wakes their children or causes shaking which breaks or damages their commodities, yet Barney is not invading on their property, he is using the railway that is built on his property and is within his rights to do so, yet he's causing damage to the property of others.

How would Bob, Josh and John get any sort of compensation from Barney and should they get any compensation from him to begin with?

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This guy is Auguste Comte. You may or may not have heard of him, but he influenced Marx, the Italian and French school of criminology, the second republic of Brazil and many others. Before there was Marx, Comte already came up with the idea of historical determinism. He is no one less than the inventor of positivism, along with his mentor, Henri de Saint Simon. Both are children of the napoleonic regime, which was itself a direct descendant of the French Revolution.

I named Comte because he illustrates extremely well what I have in mind: To trace the ideas of all the tyrants of our age back to their roots, and create a kind of mindmap or genealogy for them. My question is who else would be up for a project like that

R: 92 / I: 14 / P: 20 [R] [G] [-]

NHLP strongest in Nation

Well /liberty/, what's your excuse for not moving to New Hampshire yet?

http://freekeene.com/2017/06/27/third-sitting-new-hampshire-state-rep-flips-to-libertarian-party/

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Do you like Stirner?

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Neoliberalism

>Neoliberalism (neo-liberalism) refers primarily to the 20th-century resurgence of 19th-century ideas associated with laissez-faire economic liberalism. These include economic liberalization policies such as privatization, fiscal austerity, deregulation, free trade, and reductions in government spending in order to increase the role of the private sector in the economy and society. These market-based ideas and the policies they inspired constitute a paradigm shift away from the post-war Keynesian consensus which lasted from 1945 to 1980.

Sorry I forgot, how is this bad? Seems pretty based to me.

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Based gym owner bans statist cucks from his gym and tells TV reporter that cops are an occupying army.

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>Comment section

I have no e-celbrity and I must sperg.

R: 5 / I: 2 / P: 20 [R] [G] [-]

Friendly reminder for argument preparedness

With everything that has gone on with /liberty/ over the last month from /leftypol/ raids, as evidenced by our unique users climbing to around 80-90, when before it was staying 40-50. I thought it was only prudent to visit them from time to time in order to eavesdrop. I came across the thread below where they are working on countering some of the arguments we made in recent threads. I imagine we will see some of these responses in the coming days and weeks. That is all, enjoy the rest of your day.

https://8ch.net/leftypol/res/1950067.html

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A license is not a guarantee of competency

I find the license topic to be a common concern when engaging with people on libertarian topics. Many people can grasp the idea of private initiatives replacing government ones, but yet have a hard time disbelieving that a government blessing to work somehow ensures quality. I work in healthcare so I have a license, and practically everyone else around me does as well. However, every month when my State Board newsletter arrives, I have only to turn to the last 1/2 of it to see how well a license works. Page after page of revocations, suspensions, and probations. Some of the charges had no bearing on their practice such as a DUI. You have a few drinks too many and the state says you can no longer practice your skills.

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Reposting to explain what is so uniquely awful about this:

>Subjective preferences for commodities can't be measured

Surely he's joking, right? He has to understand what prices represent, right? Not even Paul Mattick gave this poor of a criticism of the subjective theory of value.

R: 9 / I: 1 / P: 20 [R] [G] [-]

>this board

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QycK1I_vTxw

How the fuck can we reach people, if they believe stuff like that.

>LACK OF REGULATION

When every single year goverment grows. Doesn't matter Republican, Democrats, all over the West. Every single year they grow.

>Objectivists in the Fed

Is he fucking insane? How delusional do you have to be?

How can you have such a complete ideological tainted view of the world that you don't see that under this corporatist system Big Business WANTS the regulation, because it keeps out competition. How the fuck could you ever think there was an Objectivist? Did he really just call Greenspan and Objectivist?

R: 23 / I: 4 / P: 21 [R] [G] [-]

Bitcoin Fork Thread

So the culmination of two years of shit flinging is finally going to be resolved tomorrow(not really, the 2MB increase part of segwit2x hasn't been honoured). This was to be your international currency, your ticket to killing fiat for good. Of course none of that happened and it just became a heavily regulated betting bubble, but some of you here probably have it right?

So, what are your predictions? Which will you sell? Where is it going to go now? What other shitty digital coins did you get tricked into buying?

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Should I read all of these? I've never read any of them but I've got the time and I like reading.

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fuck you all you are the reason why i have only one friend irl and no gf

i could have fought with my innate egoism but no i found in internet edgy ideology that is ok with me being an asshole

now i want to change it so i am going to go to psychotherapy (government-funded)

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Statistics where?

Okay guys, anyone know where I can get statistics from? Like GDP, child mortality rate, homicide rate, grain production… anything, really. Preferably reaching far back to the beginning of the 20th century.

Of course, there won't be a book or a website with all the statistics you could ever need, but anything would be good, really. So far, picking up statistics is a choir for me. I never learned how to do it except with some criminal statistics.

R: 43 / I: 10 / P: 21 [R] [G] [-]

Communism was a Mistake

Reminder:

>Every single famine in the 20th century was caused by intervention in the market

>The famines with the highest death toll were all in socialist countries

>Communist and socialist regimes have killed upwards of seventy million people in democides, possibly more than a hundred million

>Every major democide can be attributed to either socialist or protosocialist ideas being put to work

>After a hundred years of trying, not a single socialist economy ever had any impressive economic achievement to show for

Free downloadable bonus content:

>France was wealthier before the French Revolution

>Russia was wealthier before the Russian Revolutions

>The most brutal and least glorious revolutions and wars of independence were always popular uprisings

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was he /ourguy/?

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sage

can we have a sage flag? and secretly make it so sage in the captcha field counts?

I want to truly sage in all fields.

R: 26 / I: 6 / P: 21 [R] [G] [-]

Religion Thread

>What is your denomination?

>How serious is it for you?

>Who's your biggest religious inspiration?

>How do your political and religious views work together?

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I don't know /liberty/, I have a complaint about the NAP not covering words.

Don't you realize that groups already exist that take advantage of laws(or lack thereof) regarding physical injury but not emotional injury, like the Westboro Baptist Crunch? They make money of lawsuits(And people viewing ads in their website, but that's not the point). I don't care about the whole "But if you were a real man you wouldn't care" stuff, yeah I know you don't care about dumb people or whatever but they're part of the work force, unlike people exploiting oversights in the NAP.

R: 2 / I: 0 / P: 21 [R] [G] [-]

were there any southern (or otherwise classical/ancient) economists that supported slavery and knew their shit?

what's some good literature on this.

I'm not a neoreactionary or anything, but I just want to understand why people justified it pre-industrialization

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Was Alejandro Sosa an an-cap?

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/leftypol/ CIA

Ancap you tubers are controlled by /leftypol/

https://8ch.net/leftypol/res/1938892.html#1941081

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>Tfw Keynes was a member of not one, but two homosexual death cults

Seriously. Look up the Bloomsbury Group and Cambridge Apostles. Scary shit.

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Is the mysterious merchant from Resident Evil 4 an agorist anarchist?

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newfag here.

i used to consider myself a minarchist, but since market self regulation system seem to be so efficient, i'm currently evolving into an anti-state libertarian (since i haven't read rothbard yet i don't want to call myself an ancap).

what i wanted to ask you is if it's really necessary a big-ass civil code to mantain a society. or the NAP is enough?

thanks

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Education bubble

How are you dealing with the ongoing education crisis? How devastating do you think it will be when the multiple spending bubbles pop?

t. Guy from a corrupt college that was recently bailed out by the Government. 4 years of my life thrown to waste. Everyone involved got out. One of them lives in China now.

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[Political thread rather than explicitly libertarian]

I have always seen that people in imageboards are inclined to think that civilizations can and will still rise and fall int he modern age(If they ever think about it), but I do not think its necessarily true now.

Our times are relatively different, we have "kingdosm" or nations fall, such as communist nations failing economically, nobody thinks to ransack them. Even though many people die, the concept of the nation being the same does not seem to change. I do believe things are different in (relatively) recent times, and we will not see any kingdoms rise or fall within the span of, say, 100 years? 200? Even if you argue "the feminists will destroy islands and shit", people will survive and start again in those areas, no foreign kingdom invasions except form maybe the downfallen country itself.

R: 35 / I: 5 / P: 22 [R] [G] [-]

Ben v Cenk: Dawn of Social Justice

Who actually won?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WX6FUhbomtw

It seems as though the fans of the given speaker believes that they own.

Are there any impartial viewers who can give an honest answer?

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Cannabis company buys entire town.

Is this the return of company towns? Most likely not, but it will be interesting to see what comes of it. While it might do alright from tourists from non-cannabis legal states, I would imagine that if you lived there as a non-stoner it would get old fast.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-08-04/cannabis-company-just-bought-whole-california-town

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The Patent Scam

There will be a documentary about patent trolls abusing the system and stopping innovation.

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Public Sector Stories

>Going to city hall

>Getting my new passport

>Get in the queue

>Only one queue open, seven or eight persons in it

>No one is standing in the second queue, but the clerk-girl and a fat, tattooed security man are having a nice conversation

>At least two "no-phones-allowed" signs posted

>Get out my phone and make pictures

>enemyofthestate.jpg

>Get called in the second queue before everyone else

>Get served

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>I was only 9 years old

>I loved Ludwig von Mises so much, I had all the books and Mises Institute™ merchandise

>I pray to Mises every night before bed, thanking him for the Basic Economics™ I’ve been given

>"Mises is love" I say; “Mises is life”

>My dad hears me and calls me a libertarian utopist

>I know he was just jealous of my dispersed knowledge of Basic Economics™

>I called him a logical positivist

>He slaps me and sends me to go to sleep

>I’m crying now, and my face hurts

>I lay in bed and it’s really cold

>Suddenly, a warmth is moving towards me

>It’s von Mises

>I am so happy

>He whispers into my ear “Economics is a study of human action.”

>He grabs me with his powerful economist hands and puts me down onto my hands and knees

>I’m ready

>I spread my capital markets for Mises

>He penetrates my enterpreneurial spirit

>It hurts so much but I do it for von Mises

>I can feel my allocative mechanism working as my production structure becomes more capital-intensive

>I lower my subjective time preference against his voluntary savings

>I want to please von Mises

>He roars in a mighty roar as he fills my economy with his capital

>My dad walks in

>Mises looks him straight in the eyes and says “Tu ne cede malis.”

>von Mises leaves through my window

>Mises is love. Mises is life.

R: 14 / I: 2 / P: 22 [R] [G] [-]

Private governance vs the NAP

I'm leaning towards the idea of privatizing all government functions rather than simply saying that the only law should be the NAP. The reason is that the main reason the state sucks isn't because of seat belt laws but because it's a massive tragedy of the commons and democracy just makes it worse. Meanwhile some laws are actually good, it's just questionable that the government has a just claim to implement those laws in the first place because it has a poor claim to its property. If you start by making a market in states you can start actually putting states to the test in terms of efficiency and responsibility and not just in terms of public opinion and feelz.

Some of you are going to cry CORPORATISM at this, but every single one of the things people make fun of ancap for come from the NAP being the only "law" rather than the arguments against the states moral justification.

R: 5 / I: 0 / P: 22 [R] [G] [-]

Liechtenstein

Let's stop shitposting for 30 whole minutes and read this article instead: https://jacobitemag.com/2017/08/04/why-liechtenstein-works-self-determination-and-market-governance/

It presents a summary of the Liechtenstein system of governance, which is a not-so-strange mix of a monarchy, parliament direct democracy, and a great amount of local governance. The sovereign, Prince Hans-Adam II, wrote The State in the Third Millenium, which advances his views on government as a service and the right to self-determination as a counter-balance to keep them competitive. The people have the right to secede, crown a new prince, or dissolve the monarchy entirely, but choose not to; the relationship between the crown and the people is strong. The princely family continues to support Austrian economics and limited governance, leaving the vast majority of decisions to be made at the local level.

I especially like this passage at the very end, as it states a lot of ideas that have been on my mind:

>Finally, let me recap with 7 recommendations for a better libertarian activist.

>Half of political progress is about semantics. I believe that we must improve the image of our movement by no longer publicly opposing the concept of democracy, but instead speaking favorably of the word, while pushing for a Misesian-Liechtenstein redefinition of the concept.

>Secondly, we should stop focusing on policy reform, and we should become more agnostic towards levels of regulation or tax. By neither supporting nor opposing increased regulation or tax levels, we can focus on what truly matters, the only thing that can truly make us free, which is the right of self-determination. Once we succeed in abolishing the state and introducing the free market to the governance industry, levels of regulation and taxation will naturally and predictably reach their minimal levels as their acceptance will now depend on individual, voluntary decisions.

>This shift of focus allows us to become attractive as a movement to regular people of almost all sides of the political and personality spectrum. The evils of monopoly are after all considered common sense to even the least economically enlightened members of society – the evils of government, not so much. In other words, we should stop being anti-government, and stick to being anti-state. We would no longer come across as antagonists, and instead we might influence members of other political movements to also demand a competitive government, whatever the origin of their motivations to do so.

>Third, I said before that half of political progress was about semantics; the other half of political progress is about aesthetics. To be blunt, our movement cannot be known for degeneracy and cultural destruction, for the success of our ideas fundamentally will depend on our low time preference derived from traditional values. This cannot be overlooked as a fundamental pillar of liberty, for high time preference always does lead back to statism. We must present ourselves to the world as brave, sophisticated and yet modest gentlemen and gentlewomen who present rational ideas with a calm disposition. In other words, the word libertarian must become a contrast to the word libertine, and no longer can the two be seen as compatible in the eyes of the average political spectator.

>Next, and this is a subtle one, we must position ourselves in favor of self-determination, but not necessarily put ourselves too quickly in favor of secession. Self-determination can refer to the decision to stay within a government, and not just the decision to leave it. We should be respectful of all voluntary choices even if we find them distasteful.

(cont'd)

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tfw i want to be a biologist

tfw the community of biologists is 99% liberal (in its usa meaning)

R: 15 / I: 3 / P: 22 [R] [G] [-]

why well educated people are further from thurh regarding differences among people (races) than stupid people? are not prejudices useful in saving one's life? are not they just generalizations useful in real life? im soon going to go to big city to study there and im originally from mid sized city and ppl from big city will look down on me and they will say im racist and not progressive because im from mid sized city

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I know you guys don't like to talk about this, but let's do it anyway. First of all, does webm related violate the NAP for you? Even if he consented?

Secondly, would it violate the NAP if I or maybe me and my team who spcialized to help disturbed boys such as these and operate under donations from people would … let's say kidnap these guys and try to fix them? Not with actual violence of course. It would be like a mental hospital. But we would functionally kidnap them. Maybe even meet with them under false pretenses, because they think we would become their friends and agree to castrate them?

My question is would you tolerate such an organization and not ostracize it?

R: 9 / I: 5 / P: 22 [R] [G] [-]

The Fuck? Chill The Fuck Out Thread

The fuck are y'all doing lately? Why are you being massive fucking sperges and responding to obvious bait and pedo tripfags that have been banned from half of this website?

Seriously guys, take a fucking chill pill and a deep breath. Is it really worth responding to obvious bait? Every time you even respond with a sage, you're just giving faggots an excuse to respond back to you. Especially you, Revolutionary America flag, shut the fuck up and ignore the faggots. It's not that hard. We don't need more moderation, we need more self-control to know when to and when not to respond to shit that's below even shitposting criteria. If you've gotta tell someone they're delusional, do so and move on. It's not that hard nigga, put down the fucking keyboard. Now I've gotta autistically start a Chill the fuck out thread because of all this shit piling up this last week or so. Slow responses and quality are better than quantity any day of the week. The fact that you browse /liberty/ instead of going to your monthly liberty on the rocks meetings or libertarian bullshit is already proof that you should understand this concept. Jesus Christ.

Chill Thread. Post your chill here or something, I dunno.

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Leftists are stealing Murray Bookchin

What do you guys think of Murray Bookchin?

Hes a libertarian and leftists try to coop his work to look leftist. He is a voluntaryist, has the same views on marxist socialism as Friedrich Hayek but does support his form of communism wich he calls Libertarian Municipalism wich isnt anti private property or Nap.

https://reason.com/archives/1979/10/01/interview-with-murray-bookchin/

Interesting quote.

REASON: What do you think of combining anarchism with pacifism as Robert LeFevre does—holding that violence is under no circumstances justifiable, even in self-defense; that one should attempt to escape rather than return violence if one is attacked?

BOOKCHIN: I have a great admiration for pacifism, but I'm not a pacifist, mainly because I would defend myself if I were attacked, and I believe that the American people should defend themselves if any attempt is made to take over the government by coup d'etat, whether by the military or the Marxists or any people who profess to be anarchists. But I do have an intense respect for pacifists, because I believe that ultimately, if we are to have a truly humanistic as well as libertarian society, violence will have to be banished on this planet.

R: 35 / I: 14 / P: 22 [R] [G] [-]

How would you split America up?

I'm doing an experiment where I go to the main 3 political boards on 8chan, and I want to get your opinion on how you would split up America between your guy's ideology.

Side note: Don't paint the whole map with one ideology, we've all seen that before, its a waste of your time.

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Favorite Communist Videos

This is the kind of shit I just love watching.

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I'm in the habit of reading anti-capitalist treatises from time to time, to prevent myself from becoming completely uncritical. Anyone else do that? What was the most convincing critique against capitalism and the free market that you've ever read? Why did it still not convince you?

I cannot really come up with something, because I found every critique of capitalism so far to be utter shit. The one that made me think was Amartya Sens idea that the market could cause famines, but that was before I really learned economics. It was also before I learned that his models only work out when 10% of the population starts eating over 6000 calories a day. Really, I can recommend finding a critique of his model, because the thought of some rich guy chewing pound after pound of wheat is fucking hilarious.

Picture related.

R: 5 / I: 0 / P: 23 [R] [G] [-]

Thoughts on this hypothesis? A short summary:

>Mothers in Africa nurture their children until they're two, then they usually have another child and neglect the first one

>This hampers the intellectual development of the child, and that's why blacks have a lower IQ on average

R: 25 / I: 16 / P: 23 [R] [G] [-]

National Socialist economics

I have heard many times how the National Socialist economic model was doomed to failure but never any significant sources or arguments to back it up. I am not extremely well versed in past economies of the world but because Nazi Germany had affected and benefited it's people greatly through it's policies I am doubtful of that.

Could /liberty/ help me understand and learn more as to why such policy was incorrect or did not work?

R: 6 / I: 0 / P: 23 [R] [G] [-]

So how do I learn how to invest and save money properly?

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Why the Rich Don't Give to Charity

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2013/04/why-the-rich-dont-give/309254/

Underlying our charity system—and our tax code—is the premise that individuals will make better decisions regarding social investments than will our representative government. Other developed countries have a very different arrangement, with significantly higher individual tax rates and stronger social safety nets, and significantly lower charitable-contribution rates. We have always made a virtue of individual philanthropy, and Americans tend to see our large, independent charitable sector as crucial to our country’s public spirit. There is much to admire in our approach to charity, such as the social capital that is built by individual participation and volunteerism. But our charity system is also fundamentally regressive, and works in favor of the institutions of the elite. The pity is, most people still likely believe that, as Michael Bloomberg once said, “there’s a connection between being generous and being successful.” There is a connection, but probably not the one we have supposed.

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I have 2 ideas that would solve the immigration crisis forever.

1. Citizenship comes from your parents. Therefore no more anchor babies.

2. We only allow legal immigration from countries where vice versa it would be safe for an American to immigrate to. No more niggers, spics, gooks, and durkas

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are there any famous ancaps who do not espouse the concept of natural law?

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Antitrust

So what are your thoughts on antitrust laws?

natural monopoly?

too many people who are pro free market when it comes to the monopoly power begin to backpedal on their principles

fear of everything big and "totalitarian" sure runs deep

R: 21 / I: 2 / P: 23 [R] [G] [-]

You do realize that there's no substantial difference between the state and a very large home owner's association that charges you various fees right?

One example is private security. You do realize that it'd be impossible for the average person to pay a security guard to protect their property 24/7 like how the police do now? You do realize that you would have to pitch in with your neighbors collectively for the security of a geographic location right? You do realize that because you're all pitching in collectively that decisions about which security force etc would logically end up in a democratic decision making process right?

R: 14 / I: 3 / P: 23 [R] [G] [-]

/leftypol/ butthurt

So I noticed another spike in the number of visitors we have and decided to visit /leftypol/ to see what was up. Well I came across this thread mentioning a comment from a thread on here. It appears as if the OP has gotten himself a severe case of ass pain and is asking his comrades for help. He wasn't too happy with our previous responses.

https://8ch.net/leftypol/res/1905873.html

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*blocks your path*

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Erik von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

Thoughts on this man? Have you read one of his books yet, or are you a homosexual?

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Liberty Reading Guide

Pic related is the new reading guide. I made a special tab for objectivism, but haven't sorted the book there yet, at all. Another tab is for history. That one's sorted, but very incomplete.

I added some books to minarchism and replaced Everyday Anarchy with Spooners No Treason.

Anyone have more suggestions on this thing?

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To all our democratic friends here - your vote means nothing, your opposition means nothing. Slavery wasn't abolished through the voting ballot, apartheid wasn't abolished through the voting ballot, why should we believe that statism and capitalism will simply wither away and thus we'll conceive a free society? Violence is a necessary mean to acquire a better world.

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Managed Transition

For an ancap society to work, there should be a 'transition state' to sell off military equipment to militias, privatise towns into special gated communities, and notify everybody about the local police forces that will be operating in the area. Then I think it has a much better chance of working.

Isn't this much better than sudden, rapid abolition of the state, with high potential for anarchy in the negative sense (and potentially tyrannical, competing governments)?

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Has anyone thought about building an intellectual hub for libertarians and market anarchists in New Hampshire, similar to the Mises Institute? I've been in NH for a few months but feel like there's something missing here, namely any kind of libertarian academic institute. Most of the libertarians here are pretty dumb, TBH. You don't see top tier Austrian School economists coming to NH to support the FSP, you see low-lifes who came to NH with the FSP because their hometowns didn't want them. Plus, having a MI-like institution will facilitate the growth of movers.

The pic is of Keene.

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Ancaps LITERALLY CAN'T solve global warming. And you will NEVER EVER be able to deal with sea level rise or desertification. By 2050, people will be begging for a strong, socialist state to save them from flooding and famine.

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liberty Art

Anyone got any liberty art to share

ALSO KNOWN AS FREEDOM ART

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Moment You Realized You Were A Libertarian

What was the moment you realized you were a libertarian, /liberty/?

For me, getting passed out drunk at age 19 at ISFLC was the moment I realized I didn't want anything to do with NEETSocs and what's now the "alt-right." I realized I partied the night away, got fucked up, and only had a bruised tongue the next morning, and there's nothing an authoritarian government could have done to stop me.

Similarly getting high for the first time out of a volcano made me realize I was an AnCap, and what ultimately brought me to Jesus Christ.

pic unrelated.

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'Moralism' compared with religion

Moral ideals that pretend to above the total good are nothing but cults. When action is restrained on behalf of the cult of morality, and a child dies, we may as well say that this child has been sacrificed to a moral cult. The difference between a moral cult and a religion is this: a religious person may genuinely believe that his sacrifice pleases the gods and so this action actually serves the greater good. The moralist knows his sacrifice pleases nothing beyond the purely abstract sentiment of 'morality'- of course, it pleases nothing at all, because sentiments are not real gods which can be pleased. In the truest sense we may say the sacrifice has been to nothing; a sacrifice only to the benefit of the wind.

R: 10 / I: 0 / P: 24 [R] [G] [-]

Opinions on classical Anarchist revolutions

What's your opinions on Anarchist revolutions and societies such as the Free Territory, Catalonia, The Zapatista in Chiapas, the Paris commune, Anarchist Shinmin, and Rojava?

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What can be done to stop ISPs regional monopolies without resorting to government interference. Also a Net Neutrality thread.

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I've watched this movie with a good friend. Turns out it's a fine documentary, not at all a propaganda piece, nor another dull recantation of feminists being crazy and hypocritical. There's some very interesting facts in it about the court system, many of whom you'll probably already know but the events behind it are, as usual, more interesting than the statistics. That's one of the highlights of the film, but there's more.

What still doesn't convince me is that it's somehow a bad thing men are the "disposable" sex. In many cases, it is, but that men leave the sinking boat after women and children or that they protect them in wars is both natural and expedient. Better to direct the anger at the institution of the draft, at unjust wars and at degenerate pseudo-intellectuals who decry masculinity and try to take it away as a source of pride. In short, the French Revolution once again lies at the source of all evil.

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AHHHHHH

IT'S LIKE CHEWING ON TINFOIL

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about the NAP

Why don't we just kill anyone who tries to take away our freedom? For example, McCain takes away our freedom by keeping the individual mandate alive. So we kill him. Leftists/liberals try to take away our guns, so we kill them. Niggers and universities try to take away our freedom of speech, so we kill them. Government takes away our income to keep genetic turds and lazy assholes alive, so we destroy the government. Companies try to take advantage of the lack of government and screws workers out of their wages, so we kill those in management responsible, OR lazy bums or assholes try to game the system at work to keep their petty bullshit going, so we kill them. A husband shits up his wife's life, we kill him, a woman acts like a femcunt, so we kill her.

It seems to me that we don't need a NAP, but instead a AP. The democratization of violence would lead to true liberty.

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Someone explain to me what the fuck this even means. Because I can only interpret it as "abstract principles don't matter", and "ethics is whatever I say it is". How are we supposed to have a discourse on ethics with these kinds of attitudes around?

R: 121 / I: 12 / P: 24 [R] [G] [-]

I'm an ex Anarcho-Capitalist now Individualist Anarchist and I have a question. What exactly makes government's claim of land ownership different from any other absentee land ownership and thus illegitimate?

I'll use the United States as an example. The founding fathers of the USA were all property owners who can do what they want with their property. Most of the property owners in the United States agreed to the new system of government. When new territories were established the government would send out explorers and military personnel to claim the new territory for the government on their behalf none of which violates the NAP.

Being reasonable there's definitely lots of pockets of land and various areas that maybe weren't established in ways compatible with the NAP but in order to completely declare that land illegitimate property of the state it would have to be demonstrated that it was initially being occupied by someone who was forcefully removed from it. The Natives are a very obvious example of this so let's get that out of the way right now but certainly they couldn't lay claim to the entire continent.

Second question: What makes corporate property legitimate? For this example corporate property being defined as property that has utilized the state apparatus to violate the NAP i.e. lobbied congress for a minimum wage raise, profited in an unjust manner from resource wars and laws against victim less crimes, received bailouts via tax dollars etc. Would it be okay if demonstrated that it used force against the people to seize their industry and property?

Third question: Why is a capitalist necessary? Capitalist being defined as one who exercises absentee landownership over property and uses it to extract value in the form of rents or wage labor. Wouldn't it be better for everyone to replace the capitalist class with a mutual credit bank and let workers split the proceeds from an enterprise and let people owning homes pay the workers that created their home themselves? Why do we need a capitalist class?

I consider myself a socialist and an anarchist because I personally view them as a default for society and I'm not here to shitpost or start a fight because I do respect your views and think you have a very logical ethos and set of principles. My problems with capitalism are basically it's at the very least unnecessary and undesirable as an economic arrangement goes and basically it doesn't exist inside of a vacuum. The modern incarnation of capitalism which you refer to as corporatism is intertwined with the violence and coercion of the state to such a degree the two are almost ethically indistinguishable hence question 2. I want to have a socialist revolution of sorts where the major industries, the ones that operate in conjunction with the state, are taken and controlled by the workers. I don't care about small businesses and what not but I believe in a sort of Fight Club everyone starts over type of revolution and then people voluntarily conduct themselves. Thoughts?

R: 49 / I: 9 / P: 24 [R] [G] [-]

Gay marriage

Do you support it, yes or no? I have met many who call themselves libertarians who do not support this.

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what did he mean by this

R: 21 / I: 1 / P: 25 [R] [G] [-]

Remember the 306million, Goyim!

R: 31 / I: 5 / P: 25 [R] [G] [-]

Why do ancaps have such a firm belief in social Darwinism and tend to get it mixed up with the actual evolution scientific theory?

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what do you think about creating /liberty/ wikia?

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/libertech/

What does /liberty/ have to say on free software and liberty in the tech world?

I came over here from /tech/, and a lot of what's discussed (or circle jerked) is the fact that software has become just another avenue of control.

What was once a tool to free the common man with a device that could access information all over the world (PCs and internet) is now being stifled, censored, and twisted as another means to sedate the masses (Windows, Apple, social media, etc)

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Bir Tawil is ours!

/liberty/ it is time that we stake our claim to Bir Tawil. Others have gone before us to plant their flags, but none has as been as passionate for a true land of liberty and freedom as this board. We must select among us a representative to brave the wastes to stake out claim.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bir_Tawil#Various_claims

http://www.atlasobscura.com/places/bir-tawil-1

http://kingdomofbirtawil.blogspot.com/

http://www.jackshenker.net/special-features/welcome-to-the-land-that-no-country-wants.html

https://nmlproject.com/2014/07/17/maps-cracks-and-the-geographical-imagination-of-no-mans-land/

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Grocery stores of the future now at hand!

Fuck yes I love innovation as a result of capitalism. Do not fall for the whole UBI and the "robots took muh job, wife, and dog" meme. Grab your shades lads it's getting bright in here. With Amazon Go you enter a store, scan your phone, get what you need, and walk right out. In addition, Tally the robot roams around keeping track of stock levels throughout the store before making its way back to charging station. Most likely an early prototype of the Super Duper Mart Protectron.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-07-26/meet-tally-grocery-stocking-robot-about-eradicate-1000s-minimum-wage-jobs

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http://government-2020.dupress.com/driver/data-currency-asset/

> In a hyper-connected, sensor-driven world, virtually everything and everyone generate a vast amount of data, all the time. Much of that new information will consist of personal details: where people have been, what products they’ve bought, what movies they like, which candidates they support— the list is nearly endless. By 2020, more than 80 percent of consumers collect, track, barter or sell their personal data for savings, convenience and customization, making information a currency in the truest sense. The production and use of troves of data encourages “citizen innovators” to transform open data into solutions and applications.

Can data actually be used as currency or is this just economic illiteracy?

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Is this correct? Does the LTV accurately describe reality?

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Actual Libertarian in the LP

Daily reminder that instead of the joke that was Johnson we could have had an ACTUAL Libertarian representing us in the 2016 election.

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Niche manga that recently gained traction features the concept of the NAP

Dumping the relevant chapters, for you gents to enjoy and comment on.

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The only form of anarchy which conciliates everyone is anarcho capitalism:

>Voluntaryism

>Free to make a commie state apart

>Ancommunism and anmutualism are tolerated

>Individuals are free to live in the system they want

>Just forget the ecologists fags

R: 96 / I: 16 / P: 25 [R] [G] [-]

Anarcho-democracy

Anarchy is incompatible with government, but this is not incompatible with a state, right?

So let's make states of the world governed by their own people who vote laws and decisions by themselves!

The only form of anarchy which actually works

R: 13 / I: 0 / P: 25 [R] [G] [-]

When the socialist calls for plebeian ownership of land, the liberal supports him; they only disagree, on how much. Both are far from the traditional view, wherein ownership of the land was a limited quality, conferred only on those who carried a sacred ritual flame devoted to character, race, honor, valor, and faithfulness to an emperor or king.

Under the ideal liberal regime, it is understood, anyone can be an owner. Not only is the 'sacredness' of ownership abolished, leaving the land only valued for its material aspect and liable to degradation- now that plebeians are allowed to own the land for themselves, and divide it, and say what takes place on it, it is not long before they set their eyes on owning the whole stock of the land. After all, they are the bulk of the population, and it is not 'fair' that some control all the land, and others little.

The capitalist cannot answer this by referring to the sacredness of the land's ownership- in fact, the capitalist does not think land ownership is sacred- or by pointing out that the plebeian class are neither ritually nor temperamentally fit to own land, but only by saying that the prospective owners have to, legally if not morally, pay for it first. To which the plebeian responds- 'well, I will not have to pay if I simply take it from you'.

R: 10 / I: 10 / P: 25 [R] [G] [-]

ups

R: 7 / I: 0 / P: 25 [R] [G] [-]

why do ancaps think that free market will promote fairness among judges im policentric law system?

R: 7 / I: 1 / P: 26 [R] [G] [-]

How do you precisely define what is and isn't free speech? How you differentiate between expressing an opinion and speaking your mind, and being a disruptive asshole who won't stop shouting nigger in town square? People should be allowed to express your opinions, but I feel like they shouldn't be allowed to just be an asshole, disrupting the public. In a way this also relates to internet moderation. How do you make sure that someone simply expressing an unpopular opinion won't be termed disruptive/troll to shut them up?