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/liberty/ - Liberty

Non-authoritarian Discussion of Politics, Society, News, and the Human Condition (Fun Allowed)

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WARNING! Free Speech Zone - all local trashcans will be targeted for destruction by Antifa.

File: dcdb4c3d0e332e5⋯.png (111.83 KB, 500x500, 1:1, political_compass_liberty.png)

 No.67719[Reply]

Welcome to /liberty/, your board for the discussion of politics, society, news, and the human condition without authoritarianism (fascism, full-on communism, etc). The board's philosophy is simple - welcome all discussion from non-authoritarian viewpoints, light moderation, and most importantly of all fun.

We've seen SJWs, we've seen the far right, and we've seen the far left and we've said no, stop this madness - the moralizing authoritarians who seek to control society and shape it to their whims and test out their vague theories would enslave us just to feel that society was better. At /liberty/ we believe we would be best served by sticking to the path we've been on for so long, that of personal liberty.

WELCOME

See the image - if you make the cut, you'll be right at home on /liberty/. Even if you are an authoritarian (far left or far right), you're welcome to join us - just don't expect to be taken seriously.

Rules

1. Global Rules uber alles.

2. Spamming can result in a short ban. In the event of raids, discussion threads will be stickied to weather the storm.

3. Rules are lame, don't make me make more and don't whine for more moderation unless it is absolutely necessary.

4. This board has an actual topic and it's not fetish porn. Content that is clearly beyond the pale of the board's topic (fetish porn, clop, gore, etc) will be removed. If you need these things, they are a mere three clicks away; you can even get there one-handed.

Board Policy Vis-a-vis…

1. "Shitposting"

There is no such thing as shitposting. It's a vague and subjective concept that boils down to "irreverent posts or things I don't like," and therefore makes a bad yardstick for moderation. If you want discussion without fun, may I suggest another board?

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File: 1427062517692.png (231.6 KB, 500x296, 125:74, b_frank_words_of_wisdom.png)

 No.2[Reply]

Help to compile a list of resources (preferably free) about non-authoritarian political thought. If you want to see something added, make a thread to discuss adding things to this list and I'll edit it in here if it's good.

Our list so far:
Please note that inclusion on this list is not an endorsement of a work. What you do with this information is your choice.

The Online Library of Liberty
http://oll.libertyfund.org/
Find hundreds of writings, books, essays, etc. on classical liberal thought.

Mises Institute
http://mises.org/
Find dozens of free books, audiobooks, and lectures on libertarian thought from an Austrian school perspective.

The Anarchist Library
http://theanarchistlibrary.org
Post too long. Click here to view the full text.
1 post omitted. Click reply to view.
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 No.709

Organizations of Interest
Inclusion on the list is not endorsement. Organizations are listed in no particular order.

The Fire - Foundation for Individual Rights in Education
These people are your friends - they fight for freedom! FIRE is a non-partisan individual rights advocacy group that seeks to defend freedom of speech, legal equality, due process, religious liberty, and sanctity of conscience on American college and university campuses.
Website: http://www.thefire.org/
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/TheFIREorg

American Enterprise Institute
The AEI is a nonpartisan public policy research institute. Everything from American politics to international events and beyond.
Website: https://www.aei.org/
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/AEIVideos

Learn Liberty
A project of the Institute for Humane Studies, a libertarian non-profit. Learn about economics, public policy, and more.
Post too long. Click here to view the full text.



File: c2d79714d6603cd⋯.jpg (88.75 KB, 959x959, 1:1, DH4AvH1U0AA1fzQ.jpg)

 No.66503[Reply]

Capital Ch.1 Sec.1

"Lastly nothing can have value, without being an object of utility. If the thing is useless, so is the labour contained in it; the labour does not count as labour, and therefore creates no value." - Marx

Yet utility is subjective.

21 posts and 3 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.71279

>>71277

That's one thing I've noticed, you lefties cannot ever make your theories accessible. Which, by the way, is where "read a book" comes from: From how you use that to end arguments, not from the fact that you recommend literature. The latter is actually a good thing, but you use it as a substitute for argumentation.

I could make a disclaimer to the effect that not all lefties are like that, but I can count the (honorable) exceptions on one hand.


 No.71286

>>71279

We've had no more than two leftists here as far as I can remember that argued in good faith. Still waiting for the third one.


 No.71287

>>71279

Leftists' answer to everything is to read a book. This will not do you much good if the books contain wrong theories, though. Most Marxist theory is at any rate written by English department Marxists, many of whom have never even read Marx like Althusser here >>71277.


 No.71319

There's no contradiction because subjective utility doesn't really come into the marketplace.


 No.71321

>>71279

http://mangafox.me/manga/das_kapital/

Is this accessible enough yet?




File: d5912fe188f9f89⋯.jpg (50.23 KB, 960x798, 160:133, 22221768_379156685850257_5….jpg)

 No.69656[Reply]

What financial investments could I look into that would eventually lead to a decline in Africa's birth rate? Birth control pills, DIY vasectomy/abortion kits, etc.

I'd pay solid dollar just to have less niggers in the world tbh.

77 posts and 11 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.70206

>>69806

Thanks for recommending Zidisha. Never knew about Kiva fucking over people with their interest rates.


 No.70272

>>69656

They need a financial service sector in order to distribute invested capital efficiently. However, that will not be happening anytime soon with all the corruption going around. Isn't Ghana somewhat halfway decent?


 No.71216

Belgian Congo shall commence again


 No.71226

Start a sewing factory and make them work 11 hours per day and drug the free foods to keep the horiness level low.


 No.71320

Financial investments leading to fewer niggers… I know it's counter-intuitive, but could you get the people of Africa to pay for more and better early child care? Childhood mortality seems to lead to increasing rather than decreasing populations.




File: 2fd402e6f3b4168⋯.jpg (70.09 KB, 960x929, 960:929, 23130539_1341648842612192_….jpg)

 No.70685[Reply]

>freedom

>class

>proletariat

>porky

>aryans

>wheatfields

>individualism

>collectivism

These are all spooks and mean nothing. An ideology consisting of Blood & Soil featuring Cyberpunk is the only rational conclusion that can be drawn from looking at the current state of affairs.

47 posts and 8 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.71314

>>71283

>fails to read the references

>pornography is smuggled into NK

>there is a black market for pornography in NK

>claims NK regulates degeneracy away while pornography is smuggled into country

wew lad


 No.71315

>>71314

The sources are a joke, calm your gookhate that you inherited from your grandpappy for a second


 No.71316

And if South Korea is really dropping pornography over North Korea, then the former is the one that deserves to be bombed into smithereens tbh


 No.71317

>>71310

How does Calvinism have any relation to capitalism?


 No.71318

>>71312

Heathens, get out, tbh.

>>71317

Calvinists loved commercialism and hard work. They didn't invent free trade, and they hated consumption of pretty much anything, and they were assholes, but they gave ideological support to capitalism that was largely missing before.




File: 9fe75ae8e3d9d30⋯.png (730.98 KB, 793x794, 793:794, ClipboardImage.png)

 No.71268[Reply]

So I know that there's a pretty common meme among both AnCaps and non-AnCaps about "Recreational nuclear bombs," but if you think about it, what would stop somebody from actually buying and/or making a McNuke? Like, having a state or McPoliceForce^T.M. stop the production of them would be in violation of the N.A.P. but it seems reasonable enough. This isn't like guns where you actually have a use for them. The only use for McNuke would be mass murder. (Which if you didn't know is a violation of the N.A.P.)

If your ideology comes to the conclusion that average citizens can have nuclear bombs, don't you think you should question the underlying assumptions that the ideology makes? (i.e. free market solves everything.)

10 posts and 5 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.71301

File: f9227ebcfc01d8a⋯.png (858.35 KB, 704x1082, 352:541, 40424150208.png)

>>71295

>How does one own a nuke with the state?

What. Explain this post immediately.

>>71296

I'm talking about, like, terrorism. Or some psychopathic Elliot Rodger type nuking as opposed to shooting up the neighborhood.

>>71300

I think my post explained why the reasons I'm pro-gun don't qualify to nukes, goy.


 No.71302

>>71301

***>How does one own a nuke WITHOUT the state

Sorry, I had to correct that. Sorry.


 No.71303

>>71301

>I'm talking about, like, terrorism

If it's terrorists then a "ban" means nothing. Makes even less sense without a State to enact that ban. Even right now if you want to ban nukes you'd have to outright seek out and destroy all plutonium/uranium as you can never be sure entirely whether it's being used as nuclear fuel or secretly converted into arms.

>Or some psychopathic Elliot Rodger type nuking

Elliot can only dream of ever having enough cash and connections to buy one.

>How does one own a nuke with the state?

Requires massive funding and as already stated, it's generally not worth acquiring by private entities. I don't know what the ratio of increasing scarcity as opposed to locating new sources of nuclear materials is, but as it is it should still be incredibly expensive to acquire, secure and maintain.


 No.71311

>>71282

>The arguments for nukes are the same with guns, but nukes do not infringe NAP until they are actually used.

Not the same. A gun has a legitimate use, a (strategical) nuke doesn't. Someone who gets himself a nuke makes his intent to use it as clear as it can get, and any use of it is bound to break the NAP. It's like someone peacefully sitting on his own property, taking you in the crosshairs of his sniper rifle. You do not have to wait until he pulls the trigger, you can take immediate action to disarm him.

>>71295

And this.

>>71300

>The current strategy for states who own nukes is to take out military targets, with a 16-to-1 target ratio due to the effectiveness of anti ballistic missiles.

Literal spook, sorry. An ICBM flies way too fast to be intercepted. The only thing that can intercept an ICBM is another ICBM, and even then, the reliability is pretty low. Add to that that a lot of decoys will be launched, too.

Not to say that all nukes will be effective. They'll even get in the way of each other, if you launch too many at once. But ICBM-interception still doesn't work.


 No.71313

Nukes are a purely defensive weapon and massively expensive. If your ideology comes to the conclusion that average citizens are both genocidal and hypercompetent, don't you think you should question the underlying assumptions that the ideology makes?




File: 7c1cd65532e47fb⋯.png (510.6 KB, 1167x631, 1167:631, netn.png)

 No.71200[Reply]

5 posts and 1 image reply omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.71275

>>71260

>>71262

Think about why this is even a concern. Cable companies are (supposed to be) run profitably. They wouldn't waste their money on banning porn sites for the fun of it, if that interfered with making profits. If they could, they'd provide unlimited, instant access to every site you can think of. They cannot do that, however. Bandwidth is limited. Depending on consumer demand, they'll either increase total bandwidth, or prioritize different services so as to maximize profits, by giving more bandwidth for the use of services for which high bandwidth is in demand, or to users who are willing to pay more.

The first of these options probably isn't an option. I don't know the specifics of that market, but I think there might be serious restraints to building new infrastructure. It sure isn't just because building it is so expensive. Here in Germany, our infrastructure is terrible, actually the worst in western Europe. Why is that? Surely not because Germans value the internet less, or because mysteriously, our geography just hates all things internet. Definitely not because Germans are willing to invest less than other consumer groups. The remaining possibility is that our government is somehow messing it up. I don't know how yet. I do know, on the other hand, that in the US, Comcast is shamelessly government-supported and even given monopolies. So no wonder the infrastructure in some places is just shit.

I highly doubt that the cable companies really benefit from this scheme, unless subsidies are involved. Perhaps some, even the majority, benefit, because their more efficient competitors are eliminated. It's obvious, then, that net neutrality is akin to a subsidy to the less efficient cable companies, the ones that refuse to charge the people who use up 90% of the bandwidth extra. No growth can be the result to that. It would be different, on the face of it, if the ISP-industry as a whole benefitted, but that would just mean that resources go to where they less effectively fulfill demand. Who knows, maybe the market in cooking books wouPost too long. Click here to view the full text.


 No.71280


 No.71299

bump


 No.71304

File: 137a77d06f20f11⋯.jpeg (36.92 KB, 750x500, 3:2, Rand.jpeg)

>>71262

You do realize that image would also imply private roads should be banned? Why would all traffic and any vehicle have to pay and get the same quality of service when one uses up the road a lot more than the other? Why does the bridge owner lose his right to discriminate who he lets use his property in what way as soon as people decide they like it a lot?

Burn the damn bridge down!


 No.71306

>>71200

Nothing you faggot. Get your head out of your ass. The federal government controlling the internet use inside these borders is not a positive.




File: 614df494d0e321c⋯.jpg (9.39 KB, 300x255, 20:17, canstockphoto15657154-300x….jpg)

 No.68509[Reply]

Should libel and defamation be protected by the first amendment?

41 posts and 5 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.71087

>>68910

I was just jumping in to remind everyone here to wear hearing protection whenever you go shooting.

If you don't have a gun you are not prepared to protect yourself from harm and thus should not be posting here in my opinion looking at you Poland


 No.71130

>>68910

what rights?


 No.71206

>>68509

The first amendment doesn't protect anything you dingus.


 No.71297

Libel isn't a thing. IT's a state power to increase their reach and destroy your opponents in court over faulty phrases.

That is to say, your "character" is a form of private property in how it's branded and imaged and marketed to others, or even sold. You can rightfully sue if someone is illfully and intentionally harming you character, but libel is a different beast with much more bullshit involved.


 No.71298

>>71297

>You can rightfully sue if someone is illfully and intentionally harming your character,

You're going to legally enforce impressions of you? By what right do you gain ownership of opinion?




YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

 No.71062[Reply]

KORWIN THREAD

4 posts omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.71139

how many of these do we need?


 No.71176

>>71135

>fascist

why do you think so?


 No.71291

File: fa4360e12412281⋯.jpg (230.84 KB, 900x850, 18:17, 1510455466177-0.jpg)

>>71135

I know you're a normalfag from real life, but other than Korwin being a dick with old ways of looking at things, he's still libertarian. Sexist? Sure, but so is 90% of the libertarian party either overtly or through infantilization.


 No.71292

>>71139

Also this.


 No.71308

File: 3186149ca192c22⋯.png (229.39 KB, 1065x511, 1065:511, ClipboardImage.png)

>>71291

We need genetically engineered catgirls for domestic ownership.




File: f0e4525f7a61a4b⋯.png (141.23 KB, 480x300, 8:5, 19366522_666672046855393_6….png)

 No.71284[Reply]

Henlo, friends of liberty.

I consider myself to be a neoliberal, but not the Merkel-tyre internet restrictions.

Generally, neoliberals use the force of the state to accomplish goals, and those goals

are based in market action and forces. I feel this is contradictory, which is present and

obvious. So, in what manner can neoliberalism be applied that it does not impact

true liberty?

Thanks, have a meme for you

 No.71288

File: 64ef24c33a18b33⋯.jpg (36.5 KB, 448x500, 112:125, cute strawberry.jpg)

>>71284

> So, in what manner can neoliberalism be applied that it does not impact true liberty?

Get the government out of the market entirely, do not let them control the money supply, allow currencies to compete in the free markets, so on so forth. There's your solution. It's not Neoliberalism at this point, but the liberty of the individual has been preserved.




File: cb2ef3938faa8fd⋯.png (344.34 KB, 1276x501, 1276:501, leftpol2.png)

File: aad426cf01ac103⋯.png (166.42 KB, 1337x338, 1337:338, leftpol.PNG)

 No.71204[Reply]

/leftpol/ is not a serious board.

6 posts and 1 image reply omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.71230

>>71219

What makes you say that? Why would the news lie?


 No.71238

>>71222

trips confirm hoppe will make socialism work

>>71223

I have this keynesian socdem friend, how to destroy his 'gubmint got us out of depression'?


 No.71247

>telesur

Seems legit!


 No.71254


 No.71276

>>71238

>I have this keynesian socdem friend, how to destroy his 'gubmint got us out of depression'?

Probably best to make him feel that he doesn't know very much about it (which evidently, he doesn't). Ask him to explain evidence that goes contrary to his theory, or to apply his theory in cases where it obviously doesn't apply. Stuff like that. Don't hit him over the head with the fact that his entire knowledge of economics is wrong, that gets people on the defense.




File: aefec33609aa72c⋯.mp4 (6.8 MB, 640x360, 16:9, race war.mp4)

 No.70058[Reply]

does Homo sapiens have different races?

12 posts and 4 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.71265

>>70058

yes

youre going to find statistical clusters in neurophysiology

looks like myers briggs types are a pretty close model if those

skincolor and other phenotype stuff is correlated with those, because genepools are correlated with geography and skin color etc are correlated with geography


 No.71267

>>71263

Can crows and swallows produce viable offspring? Do they share sapience? Your analogy is a non-sequitur.


 No.71272

File: bcff8ec3966a9ec⋯.jpg (39.69 KB, 312x338, 12:13, implying implications.jpg)

>>71263

Maybe I should have made myself as clear as I have the last ten times that we talked about this. If we regard humanity as a philosophical concept, then yes, it doesn't matter if blacks or abos or khmer technically aren't humans on a biological level. Do they share the fundamentals of human nature? Have they been created by God? Those are the important questions as far as philosophy and ethics are concerned, not whether they can produce offspring, have a different genetic makeup, or have a slightly different phenotype.


 No.71273

>>71272

Actually, talking about the fundamentals of human nature is tautological. Human nature is already the essence, in other words: the fundament of humanity. There are no accidents in an en essence, by definition.

Read Aquinas, you faggots.


 No.71290

>>70058

Does a bear shit in the woods?




File: 2a34c9c19010fdd⋯.gif (2.17 MB, 310x245, 62:49, tmp_22725-7d686d1c7f3b59a4….gif)

 No.39235[Reply]

There used to be a thread on here that graphed quality on one axis and accessibility on the other, with regards to various books on libertarianism. Perhaps I'm going blind, but I don't see it in the catalog or either of the stickies.

192 posts and 78 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.71158

File: 1afa4ead941bc79⋯.jpg (40.59 KB, 333x500, 333:500, The Conduct of War.jpg)

Just finished this one, a book cited by HHH in Democracy - The God that Failed.

If you're interested in history or military theory, this is the book for you. Fuller describes the history of warfare from the time of absolutism up until the early Cold War, and the effects that the French and Industrial Revolution had on it, as well as the Russian Revolution later. The former two both turned warfare from a professional business ran in the interest of kings to a mass slaughter run by and for the people. It's the same thing I've been saying: Democratic states have a peculiar and very brutal way of waging war.

The effects of the Russian Revolution are best understood when you remember what war is actually about. Fuller agrees with Clausewitz that war is the continuation of policy by other means. This is a lesson that the states have gradually forgotten, except for the USSR. Hence why Stalin fared so well in WW2. To him, policy, diplomacy and war all served the same ends, whereas the rest of the Allies wanted to cause mayhem for the sake of making peace, which is not half as reasonable as it sounds when you're thirteen (or Churchill, or FDR, or Truman).

I digress. The aim of the USSR was always to disintegrate the West, and that it did. Whether it was at war or at "peace" didn't play a role, it always tried to disrupt the capitalist states, foster terrorism, and increase unrest, for the sake of its revolutionary ideology. Thus, a genuine peace with a socialist state is not possible.

He's bluepilled on economics. He bought into the keynesian theory of how muh grabitalism blows up into a financial crisis every five years, and he bought Soviet propaganda on how Russia Industry Stronk. But those are not very big issues. This is still a fascinating and very informative book.

Also, it answers the question of how Hitler could've won the war. If he had supported the nationalist causes in Eastern Europe, he would've destroyed the USSR from within. Instead, he antagonized the Ukrainians and the peoples of the Baltic states. This is how you end up with a few tens of millions of allies less, just by being a complete idiPost too long. Click here to view the full text.


 No.71171

>>69496

yeah he's Polish I believe


 No.71174

>>71171

elaborate please


 No.71192

>>71174

just a rumor on an image board intended for gossiping

https://lolcow.farm/snow/res/350440.html#364320


 No.71261




YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

 No.71242[Reply]

Someone has to say it, this guy is brilliant

 No.71245

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

Even our greatest Ally agrees




YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

 No.71161[Reply]

>02:45

>I spent lots of time studying the left before I became a public intellectual

>public intellectual

Molybert has always been pretty full of himself but lately it's becoming hard to watch.

6 posts and 1 image reply omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.71181

>>71172

I'm not comparing him to Rothbard, Hoppes, or Mises, very few could match them. Perhaps even compared with the average person Molyneux is more informed, but as someone really interested in history his analysis of Rome was just hilariously bad. I don't think he has the intellectual capital to be called anything close to an intellectual, if I was being gracious I'd say he's a political pundit. At least he's fun to watch and tries to incorporate a poetic style to his videos and he's far less grating than your average Youtube personality, but I don't think he has anything substantial to say outside of what he has repeated by people of a much higher intellectual caliber.

I'm more just frustrated with these online figures and how they all develop a horde of unquestioning sycophants. I wouldn't care about this stuff if I wasn't so indignant about the whole situation.


 No.71183

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

Wonderful to have a thread about him. I've been watching this fuck for God knows how long and wanted an excuse to vent my disdain for him.

He's a double-mouth. On Rubin he presents himself as some apolitical figure purely concerned with philosophy and the truth while in his videos he rants like an autistic child having a stroke. To this guy, like to every ancap I'll give credit to the ancaps on this board, you're pretty damn smart, anyone who merely suggests that maybe, just maybe, some centralized authority or maybe some regulations can be helpful in its general outcome, is a communist. Apparently social democracy will lead to million-trillion-gorillion deaths by gommunism and that almost all leftist (I love how desperately he tries to intellectualize this, no no, not EVERYONE, that's silly, just about almost everyone that ideologically opposes me) are r-selected-powerhungry-cultural-marxist-something-something. And, if I may use a phrase this retard likes to spout, he's "virtue signaling" about how you're a trash human being if you overlook the gorillions - and how wouldn't you! You're automatically tied to them!

No I'm not a leftist. And even if you ancaps agree with his vitriol, he's just awful in his own right regardless of the position he takes. He can't take criticism, he has childish antics like pulling dumb faces and making tasteless impressions of some imaginary opponent, he constantly needs to remind his viewers (and himself) that he's a philosopher, whenever he responds to his critics he belittles them through sugar coating, his prose and vocabulary is absolutely nauseous to read, he is dishonest, he has ego issues etc etc. The literally single redeeming quality about him is his approach to children.

Look at the shit that happens in the video. The guy wasn't antagonizing, he wasn't being rude, he only made a reasonable suggestion. Stefan immediately took it as a personal attack on his skill and had a meltdown for 40 minutes straight. Is screeching about your view count and the amount of time you've been doing something sounds like an argument to you? To Stefan it sure does. And to add, his analogies fucking suck. You can be a newbie at something and still give a decent suggestion, depending onPost too long. Click here to view the full text.


 No.71184

File: 08722280a8eae85⋯.jpg (32.56 KB, 340x444, 85:111, 1148490216.jpg)

>>71172

>He seems to be reasonably informed

He's actually very poorly informed. On ancap affairs and ancap accessories he might be spot on, idk, but for everything else he radiates the know-it-all typical of burgers. Speaking of ancap affairs, if he knows economics so well why does he shy away from international trade? Libertarians make it a point that tariffs hurt the economy and that trying to "balance it out" by some other policy only doubles the damage. He actually defended Trump's protectionism in one of his videos, saying that even if we'll lose international deals we'd still have a boost in domestic industry and increased prosperity therefore. THAT IS A FUCKING ELEMENTARY FALLACY.

>most of what was truly great was taken 1:1 from Rothbard

So he plagiarized and didn't even leave any citations. Imagine my shock.

2/2


 No.71189

>>71183

>>71184

Nice anger attack here. I'll address it tomorrow, but let me just say that this was a delight ro read. Molyneux-bashing is unnaturally satisfying.


 No.71229

>>71184

>On ancap affairs and ancap accessories he might be spot on, idk, but for everything else he radiates the know-it-all typical of burgers.

Oh, he's not that good on them. Most of his talking points come from Rothbard or David Friedman, or else they are incredibly bad. The one time he tried to add a personal touch to the philosophy was in UPB. Everyday Anarchy and Practical Anarchy are completely unoriginal.

>Speaking of ancap affairs, if he knows economics so well why does he shy away from international trade?

He's not that good on economics. He mostly just remembered that the market works best, but not really why. Never seen him go indepth on anything, either. No surprise, then, that he doesn't understand international trade.

>So he plagiarized and didn't even leave any citations. Imagine my shock.

Not sure if you've read any of his books. He never leaves citations. In UPB, he even acted like he was the first guy to come up with a secular, objective morality.




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