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/liberty/ - Liberty

Non-authoritarian Discussion of Politics, Society, News, and the Human Condition (Fun Allowed)

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/liberty/ - Physical removal time, communist swine.

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WARNING! Free Speech Zone - all local trashcans will be targeted for destruction by Antifa.

File: dcdb4c3d0e332e5⋯.png (111.83 KB, 500x500, 1:1, political_compass_liberty.png)

 No.67719[Reply]

Welcome to /liberty/, your board for the discussion of politics, society, news, and the human condition without authoritarianism (fascism, full-on communism, etc). The board's philosophy is simple - welcome all discussion from non-authoritarian viewpoints, light moderation, and most importantly of all fun.

We've seen SJWs, we've seen the far right, and we've seen the far left and we've said no, stop this madness - the moralizing authoritarians who seek to control society and shape it to their whims and test out their vague theories would enslave us just to feel that society was better. At /liberty/ we believe we would be best served by sticking to the path we've been on for so long, that of personal liberty.

WELCOME

See the image - if you make the cut, you'll be right at home on /liberty/. Even if you are an authoritarian (far left or far right), you're welcome to join us - just don't expect to be taken seriously.

Rules

1. Global Rules uber alles.

2. Spamming can result in a short ban. In the event of raids, discussion threads will be stickied to weather the storm.

3. Rules are lame, don't make me make more and don't whine for more moderation unless it is absolutely necessary.

4. This board has an actual topic and it's not fetish porn. Content that is clearly beyond the pale of the board's topic (fetish porn, clop, gore, etc) will be removed. If you need these things, they are a mere three clicks away; you can even get there one-handed.

Board Policy Vis-a-vis…

1. "Shitposting"

There is no such thing as shitposting. It's a vague and subjective concept that boils down to "irreverent posts or things I don't like," and therefore makes a bad yardstick for moderation. If you want discussion without fun, may I suggest another board?

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File: 1427062517692.png (231.6 KB, 500x296, 125:74, b_frank_words_of_wisdom.png)

 No.2[Reply]

Help to compile a list of resources (preferably free) about non-authoritarian political thought. If you want to see something added, make a thread to discuss adding things to this list and I'll edit it in here if it's good.

Our list so far:
Please note that inclusion on this list is not an endorsement of a work. What you do with this information is your choice.

The Online Library of Liberty
http://oll.libertyfund.org/
Find hundreds of writings, books, essays, etc. on classical liberal thought.

Mises Institute
http://mises.org/
Find dozens of free books, audiobooks, and lectures on libertarian thought from an Austrian school perspective.

The Anarchist Library
http://theanarchistlibrary.org
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 No.709

Organizations of Interest
Inclusion on the list is not endorsement. Organizations are listed in no particular order.

The Fire - Foundation for Individual Rights in Education
These people are your friends - they fight for freedom! FIRE is a non-partisan individual rights advocacy group that seeks to defend freedom of speech, legal equality, due process, religious liberty, and sanctity of conscience on American college and university campuses.
Website: http://www.thefire.org/
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/TheFIREorg

American Enterprise Institute
The AEI is a nonpartisan public policy research institute. Everything from American politics to international events and beyond.
Website: https://www.aei.org/
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/AEIVideos

Learn Liberty
A project of the Institute for Humane Studies, a libertarian non-profit. Learn about economics, public policy, and more.
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File: 91a9c1ca9375362⋯.png (631.54 KB, 720x404, 180:101, ClipboardImage.png)

 No.76981[Reply]

What's the problem with state capitalism?

15 posts and 3 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.77040

File: 1d22b0a00d37449⋯.gif (2.35 MB, 480x270, 16:9, at last I truly see - taki….gif)

>>77036

>>77037

Thanks anon.


 No.77090

>>77010

Sorry but there isn't any other ideology that killed more parasites than communism. Stalin alone wiped out many useless parasites from USSR society.

But there's still many out there…and no, it's not just the jews. There's many, many more. Including you and the entire population of the USA


 No.77091

>>77090

Ah the parasites killed other parasites while at the same time killing 100 million bystanders


 No.77093

>>77091

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/4000381/Josef-Stalin-named-among-greatest-Russians-in-nationwide-TV-vote.html

Based russians :D

You know you're nothing but a useless cunt that deserve nothing less than the coldest gulag.


 No.77095

>>77093

>economy collapses because of shitty system

hahahahahaha




File: 40362094d3bf7c8⋯.gif (158.44 KB, 235x256, 235:256, 2e1.gif)

 No.76958[Reply]

if a land lord in ancapistan owned land the same size of a country, would you pay rent for living in his property and to help pay for the mercenary defense contractors?

10 posts and 2 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.77086

>>77085

I'm not going to rent to people that have military weaponry. Perhaps a few if I assume they are trust worthy. Weapons will be confiscated by the police on entry.

> It makes more economical sense to them to join the citizens with the food instead of fighting and dying for a madman.

Soldiers will obviously get a nice bonus after the war :)


 No.77087

>>77085

>Every renter just ups and decides to steal my property because I collect rent despite every country ever having taxes and it not happening


 No.77088

>>76960

early bitcoin miner


 No.77092

>>77086

>im not going to rent to people with guns

Okay. I have no sympathy for people who voluntarily agree to that.

>>77087

The problem isnt the taxes, it's the exhorbitantly high taxes and the behaving like a warlord. People dont give a shit about a little bit of rent. When the government gets out of hand people righteously chimp out. There are precedents for this, namely the American and French and Mexican I guess revolutions.

I don't understand why an entire nation is paying rent anyways. Most people want to outright own their land. No one's going to rent your land when they can buy it elsewhere. And if it's not for sale elsewhere they could probably rent it cheaper than what youre charging. So youre not making any money off your land; suddenly it becomes economical to lower your prices or make your land available for complete purchase. Youre really outlining the criteria for a shitty, awful country. I assume this is ancap planet where everyone can leave your "country" for a better one. If it's not ancap planet and you own the only ancap state, well how did you come to aquire it? Nobody's going to sell you all the land. People like having their own stuff. Plus with every acre you buy the price of all remaining acres goes up. It's just not feasible. This hypothetical scenario is stupid. I mean, I know you set out with the intention to bait but surely you could come up with a better strawman than "what if i bought all the land?" You couldn't. You just cant. Back to >>>/pol/ have fun worshipping a failed liberal art student.


 No.77094

>>77092

> it's the exhorbitantly high taxes and the behaving like a warlord

If you don't like the tax rate fuck off to someone elses property

>Most people want to outright own their land.

Outright owning land is going to be incredibly expensive

>Youre really outlining the criteria for a shitty, awful country.

No, i'm outlining a blueprint for a wonderful society. Who the fuck wants to live in a gulag? I can't extract many taxes from a gulag vs a wealthy society.

>You couldn't.

There are billionaires that have more money than the GDP of many small countries




File: e61fbb6cdbfd7ef⋯.png (207.59 KB, 807x935, 807:935, big brain intellectual.png)

 No.76538[Reply]

Would you call libertarianism a right-wing ideology, or "neither left nor right?"

Image semi-related.

49 posts and 16 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.77064

>>77044

(((Anarcho-capitalists))) have no plans of transition, they unconsciously recognize that their society could only work on a deserted island with a dozen of fanatic followers of their ideology that's why they constantly jack off to Crusoe economics and space colonization.


 No.77078

>>77064

some billionaire purchases land in africa and buys a few nukes from Pakistan. done


 No.77079

Libertarianism is Conservatism but without religion or a strong underlying foundation.

Atheists don't believe in God, therefore no morals, ethics, values, sanctity of life, marriage, etc. But they could still believe in freedom. Hence Libertarianism.

>Conservative: I believe in freedom because ____

>Libertarian: I believe in freedom because freedom

Conservatives view freedom as a means to an end, whereas Libertarians view freedom as an end itself.


 No.77082

>>77079

Libertarians view freedom as a means to an end, but it recognizes that your end is not necessarily my end and gives everyone the ability to choose their own end. I just want my wife and my land and my books. Take your wars and your ethnostates and whatever (((ideals))) you deem worth robbing me over and fuck right the hell off

>>77062

>voluntary interaction infringes on liberty


 No.77083

>>77079

Conservatives value whatever the system currently is.




File: 7e1bcf597a902b7⋯.png (370.04 KB, 506x1010, 253:505, fixed3.png)

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File: 72f435bc7c26fc7⋯.png (570.38 KB, 933x772, 933:772, fixed.png)

 No.76601[Reply]

If capitalism is a good thing, why is it universally hated in Eastern Europe? I am from Ukraine, a country where to the vast majority of people, capitalism is a synonym for poverty, homelessness, and war.

I personally don't know a single person who believes anything positive came out of the restoration of capitalism. I also don't know anyone who wouldn't want socialism back.

How do you reconcile this with your ideology? It's not just Ukraine, but almost every Eastern European country, with the exception of Poland. And it's not just 55%, or 60% who miss socialism. It's 80%, 70%, and other overwhelming majorities.

58 posts and 14 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.77050

>>76888

>the freemarket has never been tried


 No.77059

File: be04f0eefd84c1d⋯.jpg (14.46 KB, 512x287, 512:287, images (8).jpg)

You silly libertards, Ukraine loves socialism to this day and there's nothing you can say or do to change that.

Look at this pic of ukranians erecting a statue of Lenin. It's in it's final step of instalation, the people are pushing the statue up on it's pedestal using high tech pushing-ropes, proletariat made, for ploretariat use.


 No.77069

File: cacd743524fa688⋯.png (470.48 KB, 736x658, 368:329, how_stupid!_lol.png)

>>77059

>Merkel's fascist thugs are somehow representative of all Ukrainians


 No.77076

>>77069

>Angela "keep them flags down boys" Merkel

>fascist

>somehow it's easier to believe there's a conspiracy to hide how much Ukraine loves socialism

>even though every country that tries socialism ends pisspoor, people still love it somehow


 No.77077

>>77059

>hating communism makes you a fascist

Vatnik kys




YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

 No.77054[Reply]

>be in ancap paradise

>be fucking my child slaves

>neighboors formed a pretty armed militia, raiders can fuck off

>live is good

>raiders invading again

>this time it's different

>they better armed than us

>better trained

>and more experienced than us

>we get massacred

>they rape all our women

>enslave our children

>kill all of my friends

>such is life before civilization/in anarco-captalism

12 posts and 2 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.77074

>>77073

>communism

where everyone starves equally (except for the people that actually run the government)


 No.77075

>>77058

>>77067

Greedy Croats keep on invading Liberland to steal their shit. But Croatia only has an army of 7,000. So, 700 dug-in rednecks could give them a very hard time of it. Also Croatian government cares about EU membership and German government would tell them to fuck off for fighting against civilian militia. Also Serbia still hate their guts and would give guns to the rednecks.


 No.77080

File: 14a085e4a94027a⋯.jpg (10.51 KB, 345x328, 345:328, 14a085e4a94027a401dd693bf3….jpg)

Joking aside, how is living in a country any different? The same thing could virtually happen to any country currently in existence, we just call it "war" instead of raiding, and it's a lot more fucking brutal.


 No.77081

>Be living in statist paradise

>Be fucking my child legally an adult not-slave indentured servants

>Gubmint formed a standing army, other countries can fuck off

>Live is good

>Other country invading again

>This time is different

>Another country armed them

>They're better trained than us, got veterans

>We get massacred

>They rape all our women

>Enslave all our children

>Kill all of my friends

>Poison the water supply and strip-mine the land

>Nuke us for asking them to lift the.boot off our necks just a couple millimeters

>Such is the life in a civilized, statist society.


 No.77089

>>77054

>Be a newfag

>shitpost

Every single time




File: 74cfbe8c2b899fc⋯.gif (1.09 MB, 800x667, 800:667, 74cfbe8c2b899fc7250a264b43….gif)

 No.66901[Reply]

if you had children shop in ancap, will you sell children to a pair of fags or a pair of dykes? why? is the idea that lgbt ppl are no worse parents than heteros cultural marxist fake science?

69 posts and 14 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.77052

File: d1145713eb92494⋯.jpg (61.09 KB, 520x442, 20:17, (((.jpg)

>>77047

> trying to enforce your personal morality on the entire world.

That's what all men do, soyfriend.


 No.77053

File: 0dc66c67cc414f4⋯.jpg (251.79 KB, 1200x848, 75:53, DRtAB7DV4AAufIx.jpg)

>>77052

Well memed my property


 No.77061

File: 70ed66517e1cbef⋯.jpg (28.48 KB, 567x565, 567:565, not an argument baiting.jpg)


 No.77063

>>77061

you're right. its not


 No.77066

>>77052

Who is this semen demon?




File: 58889643e67442e⋯.png (29.3 KB, 400x400, 1:1, hitler.png)

 No.76301[Reply]

>natsoc economy is flawless

i want to end this lie can we share information about Natsoc germany economic policies and their consequences?

https://www.sott.net/article/298259-The-Americans-who-funded-Hitler-Nazis-German-economic-miracle-and-World-War-II

16 posts and 3 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.76978

>>76306

>steal from the jews

Is it still stealing when you're just recovering your property that the jews stole? Seems to me the jews violated the NAP with the whole spartacist thing and the germans responded appropriately.


 No.76994

File: ea690556743d849⋯.webm (7.64 MB, 360x240, 3:2, World War II Redpill I.webm)

File: 38b88fa087ba52b⋯.webm (7.63 MB, 360x240, 3:2, World War II Redpill II.webm)

>>76407

>Economics is that simple, guys!

WEW

I'mma go back to /pol/ now…


 No.77002

File: 08c3e83c2a6a82f⋯.jpg (31.18 KB, 720x709, 720:709, 08c3e83c2a6a82f7de99d0f08e….jpg)

>>76994

This.


 No.77045

File: ae31ce6e88f15a9⋯.jpg (22.13 KB, 474x266, 237:133, th04V1NL7H.jpg)

Where's Rick on the graph?


 No.77048

>>76503

Seems to work pretty well for me.




File: c03269859b35f2d⋯.jpg (19.33 KB, 627x598, 627:598, 23031413_1428719660560103_….jpg)

 No.77042[Reply]

O que é o adianto?

Sou batorista, mas questiono minha fé.



File: ec2e7ff2c5a74d8⋯.jpg (59.61 KB, 599x633, 599:633, chomsky.jpg)

File: f64db5ff617af88⋯.jpg (68.28 KB, 599x633, 599:633, tucker.jpg)

 No.76128[Reply]

Would anyone like to see an actual debate between Anarchist philosophers. Most of the debates I have seen between AnComs and AnCaps have been between "amateurs" to say the least. It seems like kind of a shame because there are really influential thinkers on both sides and it would be an interesting watch.

The topics could include the ethics of capitalism, tactics for achieving a stateless society, economic calculation problem, problems with democratic unions, etc.

I can think of a team made up of Hans Herman Hoppe, Jeffrey Tucker, and David Friedman vs Noam Chomsky, Slavoj Zizek, and one other influential left anarchist if leftypol wants to make a suggestion.You could also use more intermediate thinkers like Tom Woods or Lew Rockwell for the AnCap side with whoever the left wants to add.

For real fun you could have a celebrity match up with the likes of Alan Moore and Dan Harmon vs Glenn Jacobs and Penn Jillette or something. Thoughts?

41 posts and 9 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.76996

>>76129

communism is individualist


 No.77001

>>76996

I seriously hope you're not serious… Please for the love of God be trolling; no one can be this stupid, can they?


 No.77006

File: 31d235c15466c24⋯.png (304.96 KB, 2550x3300, 17:22, the black sun - captalism ….png)

>communism or captalism

I laugh at both of you ,but ofc I would side with the caps. Till the Rope Day ends he who fights be my side shall be my brother.


 No.77025

>>77001

Individualism can only exist under libertarian communism.

https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/wilde-oscar/soul-man/


 No.77038

>>76912

That or an anarcho-syndicalist.




File: f2ba7a12dc6ea44⋯.png (196.99 KB, 784x1019, 784:1019, the_day_of_the_rope_fitnes….png)

 No.76993[Reply]

Everyone talks about the Day of the Rope but it's not getting any closer. How, hypothetically, could one hasten the approach of such an event?

 No.77027

By hanging yourself.


 No.77032

>>77027

Proper reply.

Never help commies hasten the destruction. Once they come into power they will never give it back.


 No.77033

File: 6e45f5646c6a649⋯.jpg (564.66 KB, 1200x802, 600:401, ((( George Lincoln Rockwel….jpg)

>>76993

Depends, do you want the normalniggers to helpo us and them we kill them, or do normalfags die in the same day?

Spreading Moonman and Mr Bond to our own to motivate them, and/or to normalfags to drive them (remember the untermensch act on emotion);

Get fit, speak the truth loud and don't be shy, whatever you see degeneracy on TV or real life start to rant, threathen anyone who looks bothered by it.

Recruit and make a militia, or start killing by yourself. Small neo-nazi groups killing traitors and non-whites is getting really common here in my shithole country.




File: ae77a7f1b1ec678⋯.jpg (61.81 KB, 320x320, 1:1, 156148-160269.jpg)

 No.77014[Reply]

if I build a wall around your house and forbid you to break that wall because it is my private property?

 No.77016

>>77014

So long as you own the land no NAP violation.


 No.77020

>>77016

If I build the wall than I own it right? So I can surround any house and make someone prisonner of my wall that I own


 No.77029

>>77020

If you own the property. I only need to outbid you on a small section of land though.




File: 4fce0d1f49881a1⋯.jpg (24.99 KB, 250x189, 250:189, 250px-KWC_-_1989_Aerial.jpg)

 No.77023[Reply]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kowloon_Walled_City

Is this a historic ancap experiment?



File: f05aa8f95ca790a⋯.png (412.19 KB, 5000x5000, 1:1, f05.png)

 No.76706[Reply]

Ancaps and Libertarians believe in the supreme power of the free market to make everything work out, but how can that happen when buying on credit breaks supply and demand?

When people can freely take out a loan at basically any time, they're basically just being enabled to buy things that they can't afford. These things are more likely than not to be luxury items like nice new cars or big houses, because people who can't afford basic necessities generally can't get approved for a credit card or loan. So when lots of people are getting loans to buy these luxury items, it skews the market toward expensive, high-end luxury items and away from basic necessities. This causes the price of those necessities to increase, which means that everyone in all of society has to pay an increased amount to support themselves.

Additionally, because these loans are almost always ill-advised (the relatively few people who shrewdly take maximum advantage of credit card bonus points and loan interest rates lower than investment return rates are effectively being subsidized by other people making poor choices), the entire industry is basically built to exploit market inefficiency without actually contributing anything. And on top of that, because fractional reserve lending causes inflation that's focused at first in specific markets before radiating out, it's a prime factor contributing to economic bubbles, an existential threat to the free market. Together, this means that the most effective method of lending is a pump-and-dump: create imaginary money by making a larger pie, use that money to buy physical assets (belonging to a separate pie that isn't increased by lending), and laugh at the filthy plebeians when the bubble pops and they're left with worthless paper and you have valuable land and products.

How do you propose to protect ancapistan from the specter of usury? Certainly, the lack of a central government to enforce property rights will help, since it will discourage people from making exorbitant and/or conspicuous purchases and presumably reduce the scale of businesses and making lending riskier, but there is no mechanism by which it's possible to place limits on the ability of banks to fuck everything up without so much as a vestigial state.

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 No.76972

>>76948

>That is pretty much the scenario pre-FDIC.

Fractional reserve banking existed for hundreds of years before the FDIC, and it was theft and fraud for that entire time, just as it continues to be today. The question (in part) is how it can be prevented in a free society since it's effectively defrauding future generations that don't yet exist to defend themselves from it. The other half of the question is how we can counteract the poor-to-rich wealth redistributing effect of lending without resorting to taxes.


 No.76975

>>76972

It was not always fraud and theft, otherwise there would be no future depositors. Even in free societies, fraud can be deterred (i.e. DRAs, private courts).

>poor-to-rich wealth redistributing effect of lending

Can you clarify this?


 No.76977

>>76873

>calls people idiots but is a disgusting degenerate that posts nigger porn, is a literal soy boy, and doesnt understand how money works.

consider suicide


 No.76980

>>76975

>It was not always fraud and theft, otherwise there would be no future depositors.

There will still be future depositors, because those who don't understand how banks work will continue to throw their money at them without a second thought, and those who do will be convinced that they can keep the jig up for just a little while longer.

>Even in free societies, fraud can be deterred (i.e. DRAs, private courts).

And yet fractional reserve banking has continued to exist for hundreds of years. What is the magical component of a stateless society that prevents fractional reserve banks from existing?

>Can you clarify this?

See: >>76766.


 No.77004

>>76893

>We have, but it hasn't been constantly bailing out banks for that entire time.

With infinite federal reserve money

>but that's plenty of time for two entire generations of bankers to make their fortunes defrauding the public

You ever met old people that keep all their money hidden somewhere? People used to have very shitty trust in banks. Its only now that they will be paid back in printed money that they trust the system.

>It pumps unbacked money into the economy

It does not pump unbacked money into the economy. It allocates future money and labor into the present economy.

>What we end up with is smaller houses on smaller plots, but more plots and more total land area dedicated to housing.

Shitty small houses where you have to rent for years instead of getting a loan and buying a luxurious small house.

> There's a practical lower bound for plot size, and once you go below that no one will want to live there.

Unless they are paid well, see SF.

> Put another way, the many benefit at the expense of the few

No everyone is fucked by living in a shittier house, and having to rent before they can buy that shitty house.

> lending is wealth redistribution, from the poor to the wealthy.

Not its wealth redistribution from the future to the present. A trade of labor now for labor then.

>Fractional reserve banking existed for hundreds of years before the FDIC

A a much smaller scale, with much higher interest rates, with many people not trusting banks.

>What is the magical component of a stateless society that prevents fractional reserve bPost too long. Click here to view the full text.




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