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/liberty/ - Liberty

Non-authoritarian Discussion of Politics, Society, News, and the Human Condition (Fun Allowed)

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Ya'll need Mises.

File: 918e7d0cd265a02⋯.png (753.68 KB, 1440x1264, 90:79, ClipboardImage.png)


Is there a cryptocurrency with a value based on some timeless desire of humanity like its lust for gold?

pic unrelated.

File: 701b2ae3fcb457d⋯.jpg (48.13 KB, 532x611, 532:611, Murray Christmas.jpg)


And a Hoppe New Year


Thanks dude. Merry belated Christmas to you too.


Murray Christmas to you,/leftypol/

Also why am I banned again?

File: 6666ccdd6b549ab⋯.png (1.57 MB, 1200x804, 100:67, neat.png)


The U.S. has left Syria.


The U.S. has left Afghanistan.


The U.S. has left Yemen.


The U.S. has legalized industrial hemp.


Finally, some things to fucking celebrate. If they stay that way, hopefully.

51 posts and 12 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.


>US leaves Syria

>Kurdish Leftist Militants and the Baathists form a united front against Turkey


Trump helping the socialist cause every day



They allied with Gassad.



You still have to deal with potential tankie backstabbing like during the Spanish Civil War and Ukraine. That's probably why Chomsky was worried, because he is old enough to remember all the times tankies betrayed anarchists and other non authoritarian leftists.


File: 4c1058453ed06d1⋯.png (66.73 KB, 752x1668, 188:417, left libertarianism doesn'….png)


>non authoritarian leftists.




yeah, no more wasting stolen money from the free man.

File: 0b0085c3d97d1b3⋯.png (109.27 KB, 480x360, 4:3, the future of troll guy.png)


looks like the internets favorite grinning avatar is coming of age.

but where do we go from here?

by the way, the model can be found here.





File: b776541b65aff63⋯.jpg (63.06 KB, 842x602, 421:301, IMG_20181226_015013.jpg)

>calling wojak "troll face"

is this a violation of the NAP? it better be


File: 82d3efbfa6110e0⋯.jpg (68.31 KB, 806x281, 806:281, Do the cool meme.jpg)



it was originally made as a counter against wojak using the cool face image macro (aka troll face). if anything it should be called anti-troll face but ciepła twarz is more accurate




>calling meme face "wojak"

Prepare to get McNuked. Normalfag memes are cancer.

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.


<JC Denton: Despite all I’ve read about the Triads, I wasn’t prepared to see them operating in the open, on the streets, and wearing uniforms. Doesn’t the Chinese government care?

>Isaac: The Chinese leave Hong Kong alone. They barricade the roads to control trade to the mainland, but they know how business is done."

<JC Denton: I would think the secret smuggling operations of the Triads would disturb the Chinese government.

>Isaac: Maybe the Luminous Path, but China knows that the Red Arrow are business owners, entrepreneurs, community leaders, and that they protect the city from outside influences.

<JC Denton: You said 'outside influences.' What does China fear?

>Isaac: China is the last sovereign country in the world. Authoritarian but willing - unlike U.N.-governed countries - to give its people the freedom to do what they want.

<JC Denton: As long as they don’t break the law.

>Isaac: Listen to me. This is real freedom, freedom to own property, make a profit, make your life. The West, so afraid of strong government, now has no government. Only financial power.

<JC Denton: Our governments have limited power by design.

>Isaac: Rhetoric–and you believe it! Don’t you know where those slogans come from?

<JC Denton: I give up.

>Isaac: Well-paid researchers - how do you say it? - 'think tanks,' funded by big businesses. What is that? A 'think tank'?

<JC Denton: Hardly as sinister as a dictator, like China’s Premier.

>Isaac: It’s privately-funded propaganda. The Trilateral Commission in the United States for instance.

<JC Denton: The separation of powers acknowledges the petty ambitions of individuals; that’s its strength.

>Isaac: A system organized around the weakest qualities of individuals will produce these same qualities in its leaders.

<JC Denton: Perhaps certain qualities are an inseparable part of human nature.

Post too long. Click here to view the full text.
32 posts and 4 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.



holy shit

>sexual jews

>eating cats

this is great



>turtle as something derogatory

i like turtles more than humans tbqh


File: 3c0add7e91b8a03⋯.png (286.47 KB, 453x451, 453:451, thats a good one.png)




Holy shit



Conspiracy theories involving "Secret Cliques" like Muh UN Muh Rothschilds etc are fascist by nature



Class consciousness, on the other hand, is perfectly sound reasoning and not conspiratorial in the slightest.

File: 7fdee360fa611d8⋯.jpg (50.65 KB, 340x568, 85:142, m02dx2u9hk521.jpg)


*tink tink tink tink*








Thank you, that will be all

1 post and 1 image reply omitted. Click reply to view.


File: 88f719f2b3d5bb2⋯.jpg (21.92 KB, 460x258, 230:129, wanna_become_a_jannisary.jpg)

The fuck is a Janny? Janitors or Janissaries?



Same thing.



shut the fuck up dixiefag, i hate you the most of everyone here.


File: a74296ce7b9c105⋯.png (78.91 KB, 600x784, 75:98, Smug Zsinj.png)


You seem upset.


Invidious embed. Click thumbnail to play.


Worldwide Halawa Network when?

No, but seriously, what the hell is the solution here /liberty/?

File: 3b76d7e6614f80b⋯.jpg (216.98 KB, 512x512, 1:1, moonman intensifies.jpg)


Since agorism believes in peaceful revolution via black markets, why don't we all just create more dCommerce businesses (ecommerce but with cryptos) so that we can influence other to to the same by coming up with more free market solutions thus kickstarting competition? That way, since every dCommerce business is using cryptos, the governments won't be able to tax us or regulate us so that means that they're going to collapse since they have no power.

This is why politicians are scared of crypto. This is literally how ancapistan will start. All we have to do is get people to start cultivation businesses with crypto. Let's leave the U.S Dollar behind in exchange for something of greater value.

Useful links:





If you want to find a niche to start your business on, then now's the time.

63 posts and 14 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.



Yeah, I started taking some computer science courses online before my life flew apart a few months ago. I was hoping to at least understand things well enough to put together a skeleton of my idea so that a more experience programmer could iron it out for me. Hopefully soon I'll be able to get back to it.


>you just turned down free work

I'm trying to preserve my first-to-market advantage. It shouldn't be too hard to copy my idea once it gets out. I'd like to have gotten established before that happens.

>It's almost like the market works.

I don't follow. I need somebody to be both willing and able to develop the thing I need. I assume that as a Left/Com, you wouldn't be too keen on creating a profit-driven platform, as that's anathema to your political philosophy, and I couldn't in good conscience ask you to develop code and then try to keep you from using it for a competing project. I really do respect and appreciate your offer. I'd love to see what folks like you come up with in response to my project.


>ancap flag

>programming skills






>I assume that as a Left/Com, you wouldn't be too keen on creating a profit-driven platform, as that's anathema to your political philosophy

Not really.

The entire goal is to smash the stratification of those who may employ capital for gain, and those who may not. People buying and selling without permission is one of the quickest ways to do that. We're not kidding about the whole "capitalism wouldn't exist without the state" bit, and this is basically number one.

We like the gift economy. It's created by getting up and doing it, though.

> I couldn't in good conscience ask you to develop code and then try to keep you from using it for a competing project.

Okay. I can respect that.

…though admittedly, since I was pretty sure it would mostly be a batch scripting shell for existing solutions, it probably wouldn't much apply. Very hard to proprietarize other peoples' work.

>I'm trying to preserve my first-to-market advantage. It shouldn't be too hard to copy my idea once it gets out. I'd like to have gotten established before that happens.

You might want to look into the "attribution" chains of copyleft. You're probably taking a big hit if you're asking people to run closed code, whereas any competitors' version might end up advertising you (and being code you can incorporate in yours if desired)

Attribution-FLOSS Copyleft might be your best hope for preserving market advantage. Especially since your whole project is probably off-the-shelf code right now.


I assume they were talking about >>95147 / >>95151 . Someone got scared for a second.

> I really do respect and appreciate your offer.

Oh thanks.

>I'd love to see what folks like you come up with in response tPost too long. Click here to view the full text.



>I'm talking about creating peer-to-peer services that allow anyone to profitably compete directly with the state's services on an encrypted, distributed network.

The government has a big problem with people and healthcare. What we need is to create a healthcare blockchain ICO based on smart contracts so that individual healthcare companies can use it with people looking to buy a healthcare plan at low prices and it'll have an upvote/downvote system that consumers can use to highlight which provider is the best, thus increasing competition between other businesses. This will really get the government riled up since they couldn't solve the healthcare problem themselves which will lead to a crackdown on this alternative that leaves the consumer with two options: to stop using the ICO or get arrested. Once they realize this, then the users of this ICO will see the state for what it really is and will continue to use the ICO in spite of the state. The state won't even be able to enforce this rule since it operates outside of their monopoly, thus weakening their apparatus.



My plan was actually insurance in general, not just health insurance. When you enable people to insure anything on an open market, things can get really interesting really quick.



>that leaves the consumer with two options: to stop using the ICO or get arrested

Since we're talking about something that would require confidentiality between several parties I can tell you it's extremely unlikely that everyone wouldn't just choose "stop, because it's illegal and therefore wrong". People do not want to do things that will get them into any trouble. Doubly so when you increase the number of potential liabilities.

File: a5d6cfbc059bba8⋯.png (31.51 KB, 676x548, 169:137, ancap argument.png)


Ancap is not anarchism nor capitalism. It's literally communism, you just trade goverment for corporations.

ancap is just communism with better memes, just like ancaps are commies with more melanin.

prove me wrong. As in actual proof, no maymays or adhominen or other gay shit



>Make assertions

>meme pic

>prove me wrong

No. You're right. Now fuck off. Ancap forever btfo, lmao.


File: 913f578eb13ef0f⋯.jpeg (217.93 KB, 772x1024, 193:256, 7d029f099ad45d6a.jpeg)


>capitalism is communism

File: aeabffdedbd3ead⋯.jpg (115.96 KB, 500x756, 125:189, anyothersocialcompleted.jpg)


Social Dems call themselves socialist, tankies call themselves socialist, anarchists call themselves socialist, and /pol/acks call themselves socialist. It's kind of a big flaw in that ideology in that no one can decide who or what counts as that ideology


Because it's a word game.

It's always "ours is the true socialism".



Yep. If each character has only one run at a game, you make a new character with a new name when the last one fails (and kills a few million). Also, there is indeed some differences in the specifics (natsoc doesn't have the exact same method as demsoc), but that's only to some smaller degree.



This. It's not a bug, but a feature. It's a way that lets them escape responsibility.


File: 1b9b294746bd6d1⋯.png (69.39 KB, 460x760, 23:38, real socialism flowchart.png)

As others have said, it's by design.

File: b967a2c0ebdd624⋯.jpg (88.11 KB, 850x693, 850:693, question 5364564.jpg)


Hey /liberty/, I'm having trouble figuring out a concept in Hoppe's book.

>Now assume that aggressively founded ownership is introduced.

Whereas before every person was the exclusive owner of his body

and could decide on his own whether to become a drunk or a philosopher, now a system is established in which a person’s right to

determine how to use his body is curtailed or completely eliminated, and instead, this right is partly or fully delegated to another

person who is not naturally linked to the respective body as its producer. What would be the consequence of this? The abolition of

private ownership of one’s body can be far-reaching: the nonproducers can have the right to determine all of the uses of “my” body

all of the time, or their right to do so can be restricted with respect

to time and/or domains, and these restrictions again can be flexible

(with the nonproducers having the right to change the restrictive

definitions according to their own taste) or fixed once and for all,

and so the effects can, of course, be more or less drastic! But whatever the degree, socialization of ownership always, and necessarily

so, produces two types of effects. The first effect, “economic” in the

narrower sense of the term, is a reduction in the amount of investment in human capital as defined above. The natural owner of a

body cannot help but make decisions regarding that body as long

as he does not commit suicide and decides to stay alive, however

restricted his ownership rights might be. But since he can no longer decide on his own, undisturbed by others, to what uses to put

his body, the value attached to it by him is now lower; the wanted

satisfaction, the psychic income, that is to say, which he can derive

from his body by putting it to certain uses is reduced because the

range of options available to him has been limited. Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

14 posts and 11 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.



>but I don't see how it would make him favour consumption decisions over investment decisions.

It's because the payoff of investment decisions is necessarily lower. In addition to the fact that the nonlegitimate "renter" of the body can immediately squander any capital that you have accumulated for his own gain, his presence, regardless of what actions he takes with your body, guarantees you less time to enjoy the fruits of your investment. If you intend to work more now so that you can retire in leisure later, the fact that some of that leisure time will be taken from you by the renter means that you are receiving less leisure time for the same amount of work. It's the same reason a progressive income tax, no matter how mild, causes a downward spiral of productivity, or why the confiscation of grain in Ukraine by the USSR caused a famine as farmers stopped producing.


>There is an unspoken assumption here that people become hedonistic when long-term happiness becomes unattainable

Well, yes. The primary disincentive of short-term satisfaction is that you lose the opportunity for long-term satisfaction. If you know you're going to lose long-term satisfaction regardless, then maximizing short-term satisfaction is the best possible outcome where payoffs are concerned.


>there is an unspoken conflation of material benefits with happiness/purpose

They are related. Not completely one-to-one, but there is a correlation. The fact that spiritual aspirations of some sort are also a factor for some people to be low time-preference does not remove the primary incentive. Especially when one considers that these spiritual aspirations are generally tied to additional corporeal benefits, such as respect, prestige, self-satisfaction, and so on.



In addition to the relation you mentioned, I wanna add another cause. Assuming that the using of property you haven't gained through homesteading/voluntary exchange is a higher time-preference action than the using of property which you have gained through such, Hoppe's proof that the statist activities grow when considered legitimate contributes to the effect.



In the praxeological method there is no distinction between economic ends, spiritual ends, or whatever else, they are all subjectively valuable ends. To elucidate this, the very example that Hoppe was talking about was in a Garden of Eden with resources being infinite except for one's body, and psychological income, so to speak, being the only value that people are able to maximise. Bodies are property, since it's being a finite resource which is the necessary precondition of property. Distinctions like dualism vs monism are largely irrelevant to the point.

Now as owners of our bodies, we cannot help but act. Not only that, but we necessarily act in our self-interest to pursue our subjective ends. Any act, at the time of being made, is what we decide as the best course of action to maximise our subjective ends (though in hindsight this may not always have been the best course of action). Now this may seem false until you realise as I've demonstrated that our subjectively valued ends can be anything, they may not be material, they may not even be in the conducive to one's continued survival. But you can infer that material prosperity may be a commonly held end which is why I use it as an example.




Good points here. I can see where Hoppe was coming from.

One thing I will say is that saying the state turns "philosophers into drunks" is less accurate than saying it turns "investors into consumers".



Yes, if that turning is of a degree, as opposed to absolute.

File: 5f421da7b137fbe⋯.jpeg (55.51 KB, 800x562, 400:281, download (13).jpeg)


How is it that if a company will allow its employees to do whatever they want, the company will fail, but when the state allows people to have more freedom it leads to greater prosperity?

1 post omitted. Click reply to view.


File: e258d69a9ee0753⋯.jpg (99.31 KB, 954x960, 159:160, 37811a32125d8604d322924666….jpg)


Because if a company is shit, people can just choose another company. If the government is shit, people will be forced to choose another country.



Because the company has to deal with their liabilities. The State can always use force. Not just use it, but have it considered legitimate by default by all as common sense.


File: 7b884d6e369a69b⋯.jpg (16.85 KB, 477x284, 477:284, Nowhereyoucanrun.jpg)


>How is it that if a company will allow its employees to do whatever they want, the company will fail, but when the state allows people to have more freedom it leads to greater prosperity?

First of all this post is a terrible approach to questioning anything as it has a blatant misunderstanding of business models and somehow also manages to fuck up understanding of the market completely. I get that this is a semi-bait semi-legitimate post but let's dissect this piece by piece

>How is it that if a company will allow its employees to do whatever they want, the company will fail

First of all, this isn't inherently true (at least not in all sectors). A good number companies in the software industry tend to allow much more freedom at every level of work simply because a programmer might have more access to information that could help create a more viable and valuable product then say, someone like the boss of the company who really might honestly have nothing to do with the operation the programmer is currently occupied with. There are some benefits in a wide number of industries of giving employees room for freedom, that's not to say that there aren't costs as will be covered in the next part of the argument.

Secondly, that being said, the opposite is also the case in numerous (if not most) industries (ie: the restaurant industry, IT, etc) where employee freedom will inevitably (in some cases) leads to employees simply not providing anything of value which will invariably cost the company money and as one anon said here: >>95491

Then comes the crux of the argument;

> but when the state allows people to have more freedom it leads to greater prosperity?

First of all, a state and a business are not equivalent in the same way that the mafia and your local McDonalds are harPost too long. Click here to view the full text.



>what’s the difference between a gun and a paycheck


>What's the difference between paying someone to do something and taking money away from someone to do something

File: a69370e0d3245ed⋯.jpg (1.11 MB, 2048x1536, 4:3, 16db67430f82483d643f864845….jpg)

File: a1353841ab0af4e⋯.jpg (56.4 KB, 1500x500, 3:1, IMG_20160502_024530.jpg)




>New Zealand is experiencing a surge of synthetic drug overdoses—but in response, the government has introduced a series of reform policies that include treating possession and consumption as public health issues while increasing enforcement against synthetic drug suppliers.

>Officials are also weighing the potential “full decriminalisation of drugs.”

>Certain synthetic substances believed to have caused recent overdoses will now be more strictly scheduled under the country’s drug laws, which will expand the search and seizure authority of law enforcement.

>But the government is also amending its Misuse of Drugs Act to specify that police “should not prosecute for possession and personal use where a therapeutic approach would be more beneficial, or there is no public interest in a prosecution.”

>The reform policies represent an immediate response, but government leaders also said that formal decriminalization, as recommended earlier this month by the New Zealand Mental Health and Addiction Inquiry, is still under consideration.

>In the meantime, new funds will be used to enhance addiction treatment centers, especially in regions where there’s a spike in overdoses.

7 posts and 2 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.


File: 7ae96f0f9ce9929⋯.jpg (919.39 KB, 2560x1920, 4:3, 15005843666351.jpg)


Who? Nigga it's me in those photos, rate.


File: fbcbf49f715f470⋯.jpg (75.71 KB, 449x600, 449:600, 14825831505510.jpg)


At least he has a girlfriend, unlike you.






Ah shit sorry man. Atomic ancap is some ancap youtuber. His thing is that he's a 13 year old ancap so judging by his young looks I assumed you were him. Sorry about that.


File: bed829e0c7b59b7⋯.jpg (380.1 KB, 1920x1348, 480:337, 6a8356c61aedbbfd7bbb558057….jpg)



NZ is being punished like BC by the Chinese for the past actions of the British Empire nya~

File: 213f2cc666ec979⋯.jpg (485.09 KB, 960x960, 1:1, 1545687517094.jpg)


Whoa guys 8chan is so cool I <3 it so much



File: 2c8e8698fb61cf4⋯.jpg (42.5 KB, 803x439, 803:439, vargceps.jpg)


Is handing out cash money to citizens in developing countries really a better idea than building infrastructure through humanitarian organizations?



It's not a good idea and never was.

"Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime"



To add: of course you can always do both; if the man is starving then you should help him immediately, but if you keep doing that forever without giving him the means to stand for himself, then you're just taking him hostage and creating a spoiled and entitled disfunctional person at the same time. Of course, that may be the exact objective of (((some people)))




To add even further, in the case of infrastructure construction, the citizenry should play a significant role in the construction, in order to increase the probability that it doesn't just end up deteriorating immediately.

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