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/liberty/ - Liberty

Non-authoritarian Discussion of Politics, Society, News, and the Human Condition (Fun Allowed)

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Ya'll need Mises.

File: 25fcf3f3446d42c⋯.png (47.05 KB, 808x1024, 101:128, ob_53c884_bakunin-1.png)

 No.100543[Reply]

The workers organise their own production like Bakounin 's collectivism but there is a state to tax and provide essential public services. I just came up with that idea, would that work?

44 posts and 9 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.102761

>>102646

>what are Monopsonies and Natural Monopolies?

Unproven hypothetical scenarios used to justify government interventionism and irrelevant to the discussion unless you're literally glued to a spot in the ground.

>what is determinism and the free will impossibility?

Also irrelevant to the discussion.

>>102629

>The electorate gains by land reform and the expansion of the dole.

>But you mentioned earlier that the enfranchised will not vote for the dilution of their power. So what is it?

You answered your own question. The electorate voted for land reform and the grain dole, not the expansion of the franchise.

In fact, the younger Gracchus got murdered by a rabid mob (the electorate) when he expanded the franchise.

The electorate fought to keep the franchise limited. You can't get elected by an electorate that can't vote.

>Slavery is an inefficient system because slaves lack the monetary incentives of free labor.

Tell that to the millionaire plantation owners of the antebellum south. Slavery is inefficient overall, but very profitable to the slaveowners.

I mean why do you think it existed for so bloody long as an institution?

>Probably nothing, but I am also against monarchy.

I said

<The only governments which have effectively kept the state from growing are republics where the franchise is restricted to property owners, which makes sense in terms of incentives.

<I'm not saying it's not degenerate (all states are) , I'm just saying it's better than giving one random cunt all the power and hoping he isn't a Machiavelli.

I would rather have no state at all, but out of all the states that have existed in history, I believe the ones wherPost too long. Click here to view the full text.


 No.102763

>>102761

>have proven to provide

have provided

I'm too tired for this shit

>>102619

Let me tell you where I'm coming from so we can stop talking about minutiae and look at the bigger picture.

I believe the defining characteristic which determines how free a society is has nothing to do with voting itself, but rather with the relationship between producers and consumers of a single good:

Rights enforcement.

The monopolisation of the production of this good, most commonly done by the state, will inevitably result in tyranny. The larger the state (both in physical terms such as land or population, and in terms of the presence of statist thinking in the minds of the members of the society), the more complete its monopoly and the faster the tyranny will progress. Therefore, in choosing which kind of state is the least predisposed to tyranny, I ask myself two questions:

1) Does the structure of belief which allows the state to justify its own existence lead to totalitarian modes of thinking?

2) Is the production of rights enforcement solely the purview of the state in this society?

The first question is fundamentally about ideology; the second is fundamentally about economics. Since I am not a Marxist and therefore not retarded, I know that economics follows from belief and physical circumstance. Since we cannot control the physical circumstances of the world, it is safe to ignore them for the purposes of this discussion. We can therefore pare down these two questions down into a more fundamental one:

Who do the people believe produces the enforcement of rights?

In a citizen-soldier republic the people believe they are the producers of their own rights, and the state is relegated to the position of a coordinator.

The popular militia, in this frameworPost too long. Click here to view the full text.


 No.102792

> The electorate voted for land reform and the grain dole, not the expansion of the franchise.

The electorate essentially voted for both by voting for the officials that did both.

> the younger Gracchus got murdered by a rabid mob (the electorate)

He committed suicide, and he was not chased by a mob but by Opimius’ men.

> Slavery is inefficient overall, but very profitable to the slaveowners.

Plantations were profitable (not really that profitable in antebellum South since Washington and Jefferson had to rely on rents to sustain their income) due to legislation favoring slavery. It was the large land grants from the state that made them profitable, not slaves. Tobacco crops required large landholdings to counteract nutrient depreciation.


 No.102793

>>102792

I forgot your (You): >>102792


 No.102794

>>102792

I forgot your (You): >>102761




File: 60b5f8f0f82ad67⋯.jpg (77.06 KB, 1161x653, 1161:653, seastead.jpg)

 No.101408[Reply]

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-04-19/libertarian-seasteaders-facing-execution-thailand-charges-violating-national

http://archive.is/u9tYY

>Despite its location just outside of Thailand's territorial waters, leaving it outside the reach of the country's laws according to international maritime law, the world's second "seastead" was raided by Thai police earlier this week as the country's military-dominated government pressed charges of violating national sovereignty against the two bitcoin enthusiasts who had lived there.

>The couple, Chad Elwartowski and his partner Supranee Thepdet, who goes by Nadia, could face life in prison or a death sentence in a Thai court if they are caught and formally charged. The two had sought to be pioneers in the seasteading movement, which advocates building structures anchored in international waters to allow people to live outside the control of governments and their laws.

>Thai authorities revoked Elwartowski's visa and said they would destroy the seastead within a week. The crackdown has dashed the couple's plans to build 'underwater restaurants' and 'floating hotels' to Phuket.

>But Thailand's navy said the couple's outpost still endangered national sovereignty, charging them with article 119 of the Thai Criminal Code, an offense punishable by life imprisonment or death.

>Build a 6m box floating in the middle of the fucking ocean

>Potentially get the death penalty for an offense as nebulous as "endangering national sovereignty"

Gee, I wonder why they wanted to move to the middle of the ocean? Seems to me "recreational nukes" will be an important prerequisite for establishing a free society in a den of tyrannical governments.

16 posts and 4 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.102318

>>102152

They used to but they don’t sink the boats or anything outside of the line. If they are concerned then they will just check out to see if someone needs help or other reasons. If the idiots build their home near Australia then there is a chance that the Thai military won’t go near them. Bloody morons.


 No.102548

You can buy floating home for $150,000 from Ocean builders.

https://ocean.builders/purchase/


 No.102601

<people are going to die

How is that a bad thing?

>>101417

Call Peter Thiel, he sure will give a fuck about justice in Thailand.

>101417


 No.102769

MUH BOAT MUH PROPERTY.

this is funny af though

fuck da police.


 No.102788

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

They should have hire the private military contractors to protect their aqua castle. Like other anon said, build the aqua castle close to Australia. Australia is laid back and Aussies are happy to trade with the Seasteaders.




File: 8316f042a35369e⋯.jpg (65.89 KB, 890x876, 445:438, pol kulka.jpg)

File: cba4021fefddb3c⋯.jpg (49.6 KB, 500x650, 10:13, wwc.jpg)

File: 5ce7fdef5fa8794⋯.jpg (128.37 KB, 874x1086, 437:543, 1481941186001.jpg)

File: dfc86cf99ccfba8⋯.jpg (36.96 KB, 600x509, 600:509, dfc86cf99ccfba8160a9a00c40….jpg)

 No.102167[Reply]

lets have this thread

9 posts and 20 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.102713

File: dda0faeac621290⋯.jpg (71.16 KB, 547x402, 547:402, kapitalizm dobry.jpg)


 No.102717

>>102167

Hitler was right about what?


 No.102723

>>102717

Racialism, I guess. Funny thing is, the new right wing regimes are looking to be about as interventionist as the left wing ones.


 No.102759

>>102723

he thought jews are untermenschen

it is the opposite way


 No.102775

File: 106e51f7d2dc6f8⋯.png (210.45 KB, 500x775, 20:31, ipoli-true-pol-also-known-….png)




File: 8d6e39f32efb7c7⋯.webm (7.61 MB, 640x360, 16:9, 1504866203693089075.webm)

 No.102635[Reply]

allegedly mrs may was recently in india and she wanted to make free trade agreement with india but their president said that he can agree only if all indians get visa-free entrance to the uk

is not indian president afraid of losing taxpayers?

1 post omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.102724

>>102685

>liberalize the Indian economy

Remember that time they demonetised low denomination currency in order to "curtail illegal activity"?

Maybe Africa will be the next global superpower.


 No.102732

>>102724

i dont

t. another anon


 No.102737

Invidious embed. Click thumbnail to play.

>>102724

>Maybe Africa will be the next global superpower.

They probably will.


 No.102745

>>102724

Isn't it the other way around? The psjeets stopped circulating high denomination bills because muh drug dealers laundering money.


 No.102746

>>102745

I think you're right; I misremembered and erroneously assumed that a 500 rupee bill worth 7 USD would be a low denomination.




File: 38e3af9db061bb2⋯.jpg (24.39 KB, 512x398, 256:199, ch.jpg)

 No.102667[Reply]

Why was the US unable to resist central government?

They could have shown the world the possibility of enlightened de-centralism.

Diverse and beautiful local cultures, with a central government divorced from them all, to serve as their protector.

That way nationalism doesnt get too fierce, or corrode the local cultures, but the local cultures are still protected, and to some extent supported by the centre.

'What went wrong?'

 No.102684

Fabianism is remarkably effective. My evidence will be the replies to this thread that all purport wildly different causes (the Civil War, the FED, the income tax, the military-industrial complex, etc., etc.).


 No.102702

File: 3db3308b893cb3d⋯.png (638.43 KB, 597x467, 597:467, ClipboardImage.png)

>>102667

>resist central government

>get your major cities burnt down by Yankee scum


 No.102703

>>102667

>Why was the US unable to resist central government?

Because it had a central governmental at all. Minarchist states will never say that way for long, because it is in the nature of every government to grow.


 No.102714




File: a9b270cf40c35a6⋯.jpg (8.71 KB, 300x207, 100:69, 192627-004-E20A8593.jpg)

 No.102030[Reply]

Using Austrian school economics instead of Chicago school?

4 posts omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.102569

File: bc7068cce497e1c⋯.jpg (345.99 KB, 800x540, 40:27, gensler-cities-2050.jpg)

>>102126

i once had a dream i was in a massive city on an island with huge glass skyscrapers and millions of people, and a huge airport full of people and restaurants, but the people spoke a language I didn't understand (at the time). sometimes I like to think it might have been Havana in an alternate reality where Cuba was capitalist.


 No.102570

>>102569

I was referring as Chile taking the same place of gommie Cuba in the libertarian movement, as the big example of how to destroy the statist elite and build and strongarm a country towards an Ancap society and Pinochet being less than a meme and more of Goldcoated Fidel Castro.

But yeah, that's how I also imagine Cuba if weren't turned into the Jail-island is now.


 No.102589

>>102569

it was a singapore


 No.102626

>>102589

>singapore

>libertarian


 No.102712

>>102626

singapore is based




File: 4fa12bfb5bb39d6⋯.jpg (47.58 KB, 550x413, 550:413, 1485041047977789010.jpg)

 No.102531[Reply]

please recommend me nice 8ch boards

4 posts omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.102567


 No.102571

>>102556

/k/ here was coopted by NEETsocs, a shadow of his former glory.


 No.102574

>>102571

The NEETSocs are an inescapable presence, but they're far from all-encompassing on 8/k/. The real menace is noguns Europoors. But despite the presence of both, every time I glance at half/k/ out of morbid curiosity, I'm reminded that as shit as our /k/ is every alternative is far worse.


 No.102575

>>102571

NEETsocs are the furries of imageboards. Let a few in and soon you'll have a horde scream about fursecution teh jeeews.


 No.102625




File: 1a871180bdca71c⋯.jpg (84.98 KB, 672x371, 96:53, hugecomputer.jpg)

 No.102551[Reply]

<Goddam antiestablishmentarians. Let's just ban antiestablishment speech.

>First amendment gets in the way.

<Fuck. Maybe we can get some sort of wartime justification.

>Espionage Act of 1917 gets upheld.

<Alright, at least we got that, but I'm envious of how good the U.K. is at controlling their media. Maybe we can regulate the media to encourage them into a few megacorps to at least simplify things.

>FCC established.

<Well, that worked well, maybe now we can covertly control them with spies and blackmail?

>Operation Mockingbird and COINTELPRO gets found out.

<Well fuck, we can wait until people forget about this and then try again.

>Internet comes around.

<Hm, this is going to get out of hand if we let this go. I know, let's covertly fund a few DARPA projects so we can make and control our own megacorps from the start!

>Start "LifeLog" and cancel it the same day Facebook starts up.

>Slush fund the fuck out of Google/Amazon/etc..

<Well shit, subsidizing the media directly under the guise of military projects is working a lot better than when we tried to do it surreptitiously under the CIA. Let's formalize this arrangement.

>Pass Smith-Mundt Modernization Act of 2012.

>Continue directly funding FANG.

<Hm, it looks like 12 people are trying to make an alternative to this stuff. Let's squash that right away.

>Covertly tell the two existing payment processing megacorps to squash your opponents.

How accurate is my history of the past 100 years, /liberty/?

5 posts omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.102593

File: 0f008108a8826c7⋯.png (222.36 KB, 1791x473, 1791:473, liberty anon explains Deep….PNG)

>>102582

I screencapped it for posterity. Its really good stuff.


 No.102594

>>102582

>1st column: FBI, J Edgar Hoover, and then descriptions of COINTELPRO, how the FBI has the ability to blackmail anyone in the U.S. and Hoover supposedly intimidated sitting U.S. Presidents ( https://www.britannica.com/biography/J-Edgar-Hoover ). COINTELPRO techniques are still in use to this very day

Reminds me of how the KGB took over the USSR. Technically, modern Russia is still ruled by a fucking KGB rat.


 No.102596

>>102582

I need to play that game again. The first time I played it I was so stupidly "WEHHH, I DON'T LIKE RAIDEN," that I missed all the cool shit and truth it was raining from left and right. Also, in retrospect, I now don't really mind Raiden all that much.


 No.102597

>>102596

>in retrospect, I now

Apologies for the contradictory speech. I'm going to bed.


 No.102605

>>102551

Needs more jews tbqh.




File: e387be3c4ec763e⋯.jpg (20.46 KB, 220x279, 220:279, 220px-Rand_Paul,_official_….jpg)

 No.102572[Reply]

Let's face it, if Trump didn't magically appeared out of nowhere pic related would be the US president now, I'm starting to think that all this alt-"right" surge was done by the powers that be to prevent the final rise of Libertarianism.

 No.102573

I'm not sure getting Paul-kun (jr) into office would've changed anything. The President doesn't actually hold that much power.


 No.102576

>pic related would be the US president now

doubt.jpg

The donor class preferred Jeb, Rubio and Cruz in pretty much that order. Cankles had a sumpremely well funded and incompetent team but the question remains whether Paul could've flipped the states he needed to flip for a win.

> doesn't actually hold that much power

He hold plenty but needs loyal personnel to act on it.

Which Trump fucked up badly by letting Rinsed Penis do most of the staffing causing the admin to be filled with NeverTrump cuckservatives and Obama holdovers.


 No.102580

>>102572

He isn't attractive to the boomercon bulk of the party, so it's doubtful he could've won the primaries.

That said, he has the most cross-party appeal and firm values so he'd do well in a presidential race.

Missed opportunity imo.


 No.102581

>>102572

I highly doubt that.


 No.102587

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

Wrong




File: f022854934e71d5⋯.jpg (123.04 KB, 511x604, 511:604, 1557953891.jpg)

 No.102547[Reply]

>so what's this libertarianism thingy, Anon?

4 posts omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.102560

>>102558

Where do you live?


 No.102561

>>102555

Because you live in a first world country where they receive gibs. Look at pictures of countries where libertarianism is implicitly tied to women's rights, and the number of libertarian women skyrockets.


 No.102562

>>102555

I know it isn't much but there's Mackenzie who's an ancap cosplayer. She's surprisingly based though she is engaged. https://twitter.com/_Kenziepuff


 No.102565

File: f468d3205ac600e⋯.jpg (81.59 KB, 1080x1066, 540:533, D7gxH2NV4AEeHyC.jpg)

>>102562

>she plays Girls Frontline

That IS based!

Honestly, I don't normally comment about shit like this but holy fuck those are some wide-ass hips, brb gotta fap.


 No.102600

>>102547

Too old, sage




File: 43cf118af3a0947⋯.png (239.84 KB, 768x392, 96:49, Nathan1.png)

 No.102359[Reply]

Title Tbh

1 post omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.102422

>>102359

based and redpilled


 No.102480

>>102422

obviously


 No.102490

>disgraced

You mean based?


 No.102493

>>102490

He is but that's not the general consensus of normies. I do think he is based but I tend to keep that in the low


 No.102503

I hate the Frankfurt school except where they actually critique consumerism, but I digress. It's fun to use their theories against them, especially on sociological matters. Like I think the reason why pedophiles are most gay is because they got their ass beat growing up for being gay so they find someone who can't fight back. For the small percentage that are straight, it's because of essential gender roles of women taking it and men giving it. Human beings, human doings and all that jazz, younger women are actually more fertile and it used to be practiced until the advent of femikikery in the public eye. Also you can't make kids with poopdick. William Reich used against himself




File: 4cdd79e2adc609a⋯.png (2.14 MB, 1868x2270, 934:1135, communists (1).png)

 No.102487[Reply]

fyi this board was clinically dead for years until this image was posted

>fucking communist fags

 No.102488

Tl; dr?


 No.102489

File: 3f64e8e90ea9d10⋯.jpg (563.28 KB, 1080x2220, 18:37, 20190517_085927.jpg)

File: 215b8bba7de1485⋯.jpg (688.73 KB, 1080x2220, 18:37, 20190517_085650.jpg)

>>102488

you could at least read the highlights

>this is the tl;dr version on the topic of arms control and disarming citizens ask the info u need is there


 No.102501

File: 6e4e8ca7c9ce5cd⋯.mp4 (3.5 MB, 854x480, 427:240, Gun Control In 47 Seconds.mp4)

>>102487

>enforce disarmament by use of armed forces

It's amazing how drunk on doublethink these creeps are




File: 6c31f0c918c7d0f⋯.jpg (35.16 KB, 780x439, 780:439, yellow-jacket.jpg)

 No.102365[Reply]

If you took Stirners "anti-objectivity" stance but was against altruism as much as Ayn Rand what is that?

Also general ethics thread.

7 posts and 1 image reply omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.102445

If I were to grab an SK and foolhardly tried to save Assange, where am I w.r.t. NAP?


 No.102476

>>102445

why do you still believe in that? everyone is in this world for themselves. most capitalists would say "you're not trying hard enough to be successful"


 No.102477

>>102421

no he was an anarchist


 No.102542

>>102476

If we all descend into Barbarism the world will be rendered uninhabitable. The idea is create a society which values liberty so that it can turn its guns outwards and prevent that from happening.


 No.102552

>>102542

>and prevent that from happening.

Prevent a descent into barbarism. I see now that my post could read "prevent valuing liberty from happening".




File: 0f73decb22015d4⋯.webm (2.57 MB, 240x135, 16:9, 1477766530783032525.webm)

 No.102298[Reply]

ancap is nice but i like white sharia more because seeing whoredom makes me suffer and butthurt because im an incel

rate

8 posts and 2 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.102423

>>102312

is wanting modest, honest, virtuous wife a pathological attitude toward sex?


 No.102425

>>102357

I'd go broader and say that it's for bottom-caste males in general. Being a nerd is still bad but nerd interests are cool so they can't use that and just saying virgin was starting to get dated so now the new hotness is 'incel' for insulting males at the bottom of the social hierarchy.


 No.102439

>>102379

>>102425

Stop playing into the Communists hands. It is a term forged in the fires of faggotry. It is a meaningless term meant simply to fling at your enemies. Do not ascribe it meaning, do not use it, simply mock its use with derision.


 No.102465

>>102423

>>102425

>>102439

>>102379

>>102357

>5 answers

>each completely different

I think we can safely say the word might as well be meaningless


 No.102510

>>102350

>incels

The very fact that you use this term tells me you are from reddit. Go back. Robots are not incels.




File: 4bc701cc0ed0d2b⋯.png (311.55 KB, 812x960, 203:240, 4bc701cc0ed0d2baa3cf753dd8….png)

 No.102373[Reply]

Explain this.

19 posts and 5 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.102429

>>102373

I fully support and avow this.

The beauty of free market eugenics at play.

Further reading:

>>102426

>>102377

Nice cope socialist. What OP is pointing out is a free market economy at its peak performance and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it.

You seem like you need an helicopter ride my dude.


 No.102433

>>102409

>Mending a broken bone, getting medicine, having X-rays etc. Is the same as splinting it and having a wellness checkup

You're delusional, dude.


 No.102436

>>102412

Tell that to the hundreds of third worlders who die each year drilling it. Fossil fuels are from fucking plant matter.


 No.102437

>>102429

But what if helicopters don't exist because technology was destroyed in a nuclear holocaust


 No.102455

File: 23e01650de4fba3⋯.png (129.99 KB, 1134x1357, 1134:1357, 1505288440471.png)

File: 7ddfdc2de76c74f⋯.jpg (80.71 KB, 726x1024, 363:512, 1518631119504m.jpg)

File: 06485351a17eb72⋯.jpg (210.44 KB, 1024x576, 16:9, 1389218943999 (1).jpg)

Alright, you want to make healthcare more affordable? Here's a three step plan:

>End inflationary monetary policy

The current monetary system in the US, like in all Western countries, is designed to enrich bankers and subsidize statism by inflating the money supply, thus stealing purchasing power from workers. Eliminate this system, and costs will go down, the value of savings will increase, and real wages will increase.

>No more subsidies.

State subsidies raise the cost of purchasing health service, since the state is able to overspend at a whim, driving up the price of healthcare.

>Deregulate the medical industry

End the cartelization of the medical industry through corporatist regulation schemes, and let competition drive down the prices.

Further points to consider:

>About 65% of the American medical industry is socialized

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2005/01/lawrence-wilson-md/americas-socialized-health-care/

>In 2018 there was a point when 133 out of 137 hospital trusts in England had an unsafe number of patients on their wards

>people are being left for hours on trolleys in corridors and stuck in ambulances.

>more than 120 patients a day are being managed in corridors in some places, some dying prematurely

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-42572116




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