[ / / / / / / / / / / / / / ] [ dir / asmr / ausneets / cafechan / htg / kc / leftpol / sonyeon / vg ]

/tech/ - Technology

Winner of the 62rd Attention-Hungry Games
/eris/ - Wherein Is Explained Absolutely Everything Worth Knowing About Absolutely Anything.

November 2018 - 8chan Transparency Report
Name
Email
Subject
Comment *
File
* = required field[▶ Show post options & limits]
Confused? See the FAQ.
Flag
Oekaki
Show oekaki applet
(replaces files and can be used instead)
Options
Password (For file and post deletion.)

Allowed file types:jpg, jpeg, gif, png, webm, mp4, pdf
Max filesize is 16 MB.
Max image dimensions are 15000 x 15000.
You may upload 3 per post.


File: 79e5277829da067⋯.png (261.68 KB, 757x593, 757:593, neocities ipfs.png)

 No.861329

So after being aware of the numerous softwares that aim for decentralization, or a more refined federation or distributed web, the big questions still stand up in the first spot:

How much of this wave of decentralized software has substantial hype?

Is there a usable use case for the hundreds of millions that are 'aware' of the crimes and wrongdoings of the corporate operators, but are not technically literate enough to wrap their heads around using alternatives?

What would you find to be the ideal hype-to-substance ratio?

When will the casual end user be able to run decentralized software?

The announcement of Neocities' IPFS implementation of their website was over 3 years ago. The US states of Illinois and New Jersey are looking into the technology of decentralization and blockchain technology, and the proposed Spanish Catalan state is currently using IPFS to host some sort of files in order to bypass the censorship of the Spanish government. And according to patch notes, the latest version of Firefox will become more friendly to alternatives such as IPFS, DAT, and Secure Scuttlebutt/SSB.

What do you think of this wave proposing against centralized tech?

 No.861331

Fool. Decentralization goes against the will of Lord Google.


 No.861333

>>861329

The Internet government, also known as the W3C, will never allow it. Not if Lord Google has anything to say about it.


 No.861336

>>861331

>>861333

can't wait for Google to die out soon :^)

in seriousness though, i think Google would be a quick adopter of decentralized distribution technologies, as seen on how much they spend on bandwidth sending videos to users on YouTube, and the whole "net neutrality is repealed" fiasco, ruining their monopoly

but i am no fortune teller, i could just be talking out of my ass


 No.861343

>>861336

>i think Google would be a quick adopter of decentralized distribution technologies

<Step 1: Embrace


 No.861352

Ever since Bitcoin got really big, "blockchain" has been a popular buzzword. Unfortunately, popularity will undoubtedly fuck up decentralization as a concept beyond repair once the kikes get their mitts on it.


 No.861360

>>861329

See >>861352

All these projects were over before they began.


 No.861388

>>861329

I think the idea of decentralized software is a step in the right direction as far as giving people who care about avoiding corporate monopolization a choice in how they use the Internet, but it won't gain much of any mainstream appeal or use. People are too attached to centralized models, and will not compromise if they can't watch 4k videos of shitty vine compilations on demand without buffering or play their favorite competitive online trash games with little to no latency. Streaming services are especially important to casual users, and while there are quite a few decentralized streaming projects, I can't see them catching on when Netflix/Amazon/Twitch dominate the streaming landscape.


 No.861389

>>861388

Plus they will be banned worldwide soon after Lord Google lobbies them!


 No.861394

>>861388

they'll use this technology to shift the burden of hosting onto the users, while also tracking them, selling google gold passes, displaying ads and skewed results, selling their personal data, and mining googlecoin on their smartphones.


 No.861395

>>861389

Not to mention the official government of the Internet, the W3C, is working hard to block these projects off forever!

All hail Lord Google!


 No.861396

>>861394

It's amazing to see all of /tech/ finally embrace and share the love of Lord Google! We are all submit to Their glory!


 No.861431


 No.861433

File: f53315e62164265⋯.jpg (59.78 KB, 1066x600, 533:300, meanwhile at protocol labs.jpg)

>d-decentralized web is the f-future!


 No.861435

>>861433

>centralized web is the key to freedom


 No.861443

>distributed web

Brilliant idea, too bad nobody told them the Internet was already invented. There's only centralization on jewgle, faceberg, etc because people want it, anyone who doesn't want to use their tracking doesn't. DNS is distributed, and obviously web servers are too.

>IPFS

What's the advantage over more mature tech like Freenet?


 No.861447

>>861443

>DNS is distributed, and obviously web servers are too.

Load balancing is not the same thing as distributed internet. Your web site is still on one single central server, whether that's actually three servers behind a balancer or not the end result is the same. Your server goes down, your website vanishes.

The only thing that's actually distributed on present day internet is DNS and torrents.


 No.861453

>>861447

OP says web, not websites. The web itself is distributed.


 No.861457

Step 1: convince normies to use bittorent over i2p.

Step 2: run a cjdns node.

Step 3: donate to GNUNet and Freenet projects.


 No.861458

>>861433

You sure showed them with that cuckchan meme.


 No.861489

>>861329

>When will the casual end user be able to run decentralized software?

Now. It's not that they can't. It's that they won't. They don't give a fuck.

What do most "casual end users" want? Access to Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, online shopping (mostly Amazon, iTunes, and a few other major sites), Netflix, Hulu, Youtube, webmail (usually Gmail), Google search, a couple major porn sites, and the fairly limited things they need for school or work.

You know what they don't want? Anything on Freenet. Or IPFS. Or any "zite" on ZeroNet. Can they shop for the same things on a "decentralized web" that they can on Amazon? Are their friends on the "decentralized web" on Decentra-Snap and Distributed-Book? Can they pay bills, turn in assignments on their university's LMS, or email a report to their boss on this "decentralized web"? Until you can answer yes to all of these questions, the vast majority of people will not only not give a fuck about muh decentralization, they won't even have the patience to hear you talk about it and will probably suspect that you're a creepy nerd pedophile.


 No.861496

>>861489

Once again, decentralizationcucks BTFO. Fucking call off all these projects. They will die and possibly be banned soon.


 No.861497

>>861458

You sure showed actual aware people like >>861489 with your meme protocol.


 No.861501

File: 4011afaa4acad9b⋯.png (39.58 KB, 644x800, 161:200, decentralcuck.png)

>>861329

It's shit that normies will never care about. Silicon Valley talking heads will continue to dominate the world, fucking give this shit up already.


 No.861508

File: 72ab4b5e3589dc8⋯.jpg (26.59 KB, 350x355, 70:71, it's-afraid.jpg)

>>861433

>>861501

What's wrong?


 No.861514

>>861508

Ad hominem won't stop Zuckerberg from becoming POTUS son. It's too late for decentralization.


 No.861522

1. For popular decentralization the software isn't there yet.

2. Many decentralization software projects are dead.

3. The goals of 'decentralization' are often not well defined.

4. Decentralization advocates on this board often don't understand what the software they're advocating does and what its flaws are.

5. They're autists that do not understand what a project needs to be to become successful.


 No.861531

>>861497

>normalfags don't/won't use it so it's worthless

>>861501

>more cuckchan memes

I'm seeing some great arguments here. Keep it up, /g/.


 No.861549

Why is this thread filled with nothing but shills? Is this a bot thread?


 No.861557

>>Muh IPFS

watch it explode and die again and again like crypto


 No.861558

>>861557

>crypto

When did crypto ever die though?


 No.861561

>>861514

What would the FTC's reaction be right now to a merger proposal between Alphabet & Faceberg?

>>861549

Organic and esoteric memes, praise Schmidt.


 No.861562

>>861558

"again and again"


 No.861568

>>861329

There are too many /ideaguy/s and none of them offer an implementation that could trully be called an alterlative to already established ways. Look at any of the latest decentralized solutions and you'll find somewhere on the "About" page words "Together we can build the free and open Internet." And that's the problem: "Together". Your Average Joe doesn't have enough brain power nor time to do something like that. Normalfags want to just consume content and you have to take that into consideration when trying to make some kind of a "ground-breaking invention for the good of all mankind". >>861489 is right: until you offer them an actual alternative to Google Search, Facebook or Twitter don't expect a "revolution". On top of that, most of the developers behind all these decentralized technologies don't want to actively force them. Trully, this industry is in need of some brutal evangelists.


 No.861574

File: 3d0244d47773980⋯.jpg (48.24 KB, 624x372, 52:31, borderline.jpg)

I don't actually give a flying fuck about the web anymore. W3C, facebook, google, etc. pozzed the shit out of it. At this point, I'm only interested in archaic shit like gopher, usenet, and telnet/ssh BBS. I'll still browse some websites that work in Links/Lynx type browser, but fuck ever doing any actual work on web-related shit.


 No.861576

File: 950c8d0cd683843⋯.jpg (979.93 KB, 1280x1500, 64:75, serveimage.jpg)

Decentralization simply doesn't work because it's inefficient and incapable of self-regulation. Centralization (monopoly) is the natural trend of capitalism and of all society. Even "decentralized" technology like BitTorrent actually depends on centralized repositories to actually store and organize torrents. If you disagree, you're a stupid anarchist. We must seize the servers of the internet, not waste our energies on idealistic "decentralized" networks that inevitably get swamped with CP.

captcha:

jqxdbr


 No.861582

File: f525ab61e04e85d⋯.jpg (53.38 KB, 1280x720, 16:9, read cockshott.jpg)

>>861576

>implying central planning can't be anonymous and distributed as well


 No.861597

>>861576

>Even "decentralized" technology like BitTorrent actually depends on centralized repositories to actually store and organize torrent

Bittorrent itself is decentralized. Normalfagweb HTTP clients for downloading .torrent files are not decentralized. Just because the content they serve is related to bittorrent, does NOT mean that they are bittorrent. This is the crux of the issue, this is what IPFS claims to solve.


 No.861608

>>861576

>Even "decentralized" technology like BitTorrent actually depends on centralized repositories to actually store and organize torrents

Not true at all, just because that's the popular method doesn't mean it's the only method. Tribler is maybe the most popular example where this was not the case, but really you can use anything at all to organize and distribute torrent hashes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribler


 No.861647

Check out Steemit; it's a pretty gentle intro into decentralized blockchain type stuff. Full of non-technical people.

I am surprised I don't hear more about Steemit on here. Many of you chaps could easily earn real $$. I got paid USD $400+ for writing a hardware review, not long after starting. You have to be a decent writer, and you have to work at it a bit .. but it's pretty easy money. Across between english class, social networking, social networking, and gaming (there is all sorts of shit you can do to jack up the $$ you earn.)

Kinda fun too.. you roll out an article, with no idea of what you will earn. Might be $0.10, or it might be $1,000.00. It's like fishing.


 No.861656

>>861576

>what is DHT


 No.861748

>>861647

Oh you mean crypto-reddit? There's a reason we don't talk about it, decentralcuck.


 No.861750

>>861531

>>normalfags don't/won't use it so it's worthless

Exactly. They won't use it because Silicon Valley will eventually FUD the fuck out of it, just like Tor.


 No.861756

>>861647

How is centralized website hosting for your shitty reddit blogs "decentralized"? If it is, is there a way to read it without a browser? How do they cope with spam and CP?


 No.861764

>>861647

Go astroturf somewhere else, retard


 No.861797

>>861748

That is not fucking accurate at all. You probably think the BSD license is a cuck license too, eh??

>>861756

>>861764

Steem is the blockchain (and an internal currency.)

Steemit is a web site that uses the Steem blockchain.

And yes, you can read it without a browser, and post to the blockchain without a browser. You don't need to use Steemit to use the Steem blockchain. It is just an application. Like Dtube, or whatever else.

I must have missed the memo .. what exactly is so bad about it?


 No.861816

>>861797

Their website looks like Web 2.5 bullshit broken without js.

I still don't get why it is better than any other Blog-Reddit clones like Medium or 8chan.

Can I post to it without giving it my phone number, state id and full palm prints?

What stops the flood, spam and who decides what content is allowed or not?

Give me a client that's not just another web browser please.

Who exactly owns the blockchain? Are there any real people/servers who keep the distributed shit like in buttcoin or is it just a buzzword with data on central server?


 No.861832

1. The web site sucks, I totally agree. It's a first attempt at creating a usable interface to the blockchain, and it definitely sucks.

2. No central authority. Not owned by a corporation. You get paid.

3. Yes, there are ways to get on the network anonymously. There is a service devoted to it, though I have not used it, don't know its name. It's known though.

4. It costs money to post. You only get a certain amount of space. There is tonnes of nsfw stuff on there, but I have not seen CP. I honestly don't know how that shit is kept out. I've just never seen it.

5. There is cliwallet and piston, as a start. And libraries for the popular languages for interfacing with the blockchain.

6. I don't really know how to answer this question. No one owns the blockchain.. it is created by witness servers, who are voted in by Steem users. Some are hobbyists, others are professional. Highest ranking one is a Steem developer.

Honestly some of it is still magic to me. I found it only a few weeks back. But I have not been censored, I've seen no CP, I've made money, and I can see the potential in it. It's rough and there are things to bitch about, but .. it ain't fuckin' reddit.


 No.861843

>>861608

>>861597

Yet the vast majority of people use centralized torrent repos, because that's how society functions.


 No.861856

File: d9097080338dcaa⋯.png (51.08 KB, 644x800, 161:200, moardecentralcuck.png)

>>861843

I still don't fucking know what lowlife shit still has hope for decentralization. We're all gonna have to adapt to the era of Silicon Valley consumerism or die.


 No.861903

>>hobbyist currency that explode every year, swinging so hard it would destroy economies and lives of millions if made national currency

so ready for prime time


 No.861923

How about just download all the data and then turn off the Internet. Don't even need any fancy blockchains technology or whatever. Just some big hard disks is good enough.


 No.861985

>>861843

>the entire world hasn't adopted this new technology that's still in active development therefore it will never happen

Jesus christ dude, we're talking about the future and you're still stuck on what normalfags are using.


 No.862007

File: 39a3f98ba3918c1⋯.jpg (95.16 KB, 1280x720, 16:9, machi sad.jpg)

>>861433

>ywn sublimate yourself into the 1488G web 7.0 meshnet aether to love lain eternally

>ywn have danmaku battles with corporate botnets

>ywn hijack a high altitude Alphabet satcom relay dirigible

>ywn be a cyberpunk sky pirate


 No.862093

>>861843

Not sure what point you're trying to make. Just because the majority does one thing doesn't mean other method are impossible, as I demonstrated. You can post a hash anywhere, it doesn't have to be on a centralized service. Host them on IPFS, Freenet, Tribler, wherever you want.

The people who use torrents are a minority in themselves, speaking about the majority of them seems arbitrary. If you're wondering how decentralized services will be used the majority doesn't matter, your average HTTP user doesn't know anything about CDNs but obviously take advantage of them, they don't know anything about TLS but use them just fine, the people who pull these technologies forward are obviously not users but developers of a service. If browser vendors decide to incorporate this tech and service providers take advantage of that then users will be using it, that's how it's always been, look at Javascript, Flash, HTML5, Web Sockets, WASM, et al.

Users didn't just decide to use javascript one day, the service providers and browser vendors did. The majority really doesn't matter, it's in the hands of a small team of developers.


 No.862107

What a disaster of a thread.


 No.862116

>>862107

this, nuke this thread mods

we need to start anew


 No.862125

>>861457

convincing normies to use torrents is already fucking hard, I can't even imagine the rest

>>861549

/tech/ is a bot board due to the lack of mods who give half a shit.

>>862093

I believe the point Anon is trying to make is that while the torrent protocol is decentralized and the listing can be done on a decentralized manner, it is much more efficient and natural to perform this last task through a centralized institution: trackers to communicate peers, and torrent listings for the end user to pick from. Decentralizing this part of the process would imply that every client would somehow have to find the rest, wasting tons of computational power on that task.


 No.863374

>>861336

>using the smiley with the carat nose


 No.863376

>>863374

u mad bro??? lol :^)


 No.863385

>>863374

>>>/cuckchan/ or kys rapefugee


 No.863396

File: 80fd739c98c8d52⋯.png (39.47 KB, 632x463, 632:463, screenshot42.png)

File: 1882a17f609e3e4⋯.png (53.12 KB, 970x727, 970:727, deception_p482.png)

File: 2997b849f6224cb⋯.png (51.16 KB, 970x727, 970:727, deception_p422.png)

>>861433

>>861501

>>861856

Is this some kind of anti-decentralization PsyOps by GCHQ or NSA done by associating liberation from Jewgle/Faceberg/twatter/PRISM with being a nu-male loser?


 No.863400

File: 3ec8241a6c945f1⋯.jpg (9.18 KB, 181x255, 181:255, CIA.jpg)

>>863396

Probably tbh. They love trying out new things.


 No.863448

>>863400

Remember that this time they are going to use our own memes against us: be on guard!


 No.863524

>>863376

>using the smiley with the carat nose


 No.863566

>>863396

I think it's more likely to be one of weev's butt buddy IRC friends having a 'funpost'

please learn how to sage


 No.863571

>>861903

>destroy millions of lives

Is that bad?


 No.868452

Are there any decentralized/p2p networking projects that seem promising right now?


 No.868460

File: 5e3eb51427f920b⋯.jpg (87.39 KB, 841x675, 841:675, 11891034_10153490817817141….jpg)

>>861647

i cant tell if this is spam advertising or autism


 No.870060

>decentralization

Lol pipedream. Everyone of /tech/ agrees.


 No.870072

>>870060

>Everyone

Not I.


 No.870079

>>870060

> Everyone of /tech/ agrees.

i don't think so, nigga


 No.870080

>>870060

Do you really think such a shit thread would actually do... whatever the fuck you were trying to do?


 No.870096

>>861531

>normalfags don't/won't use it so it's worthless

How many of your favourite sites use the gopher protocol? Did you watch all the anime you collected on HD DVD?


 No.870101

>>863396

No it's just accepting that this shit is a pipedream at best. See >>870096.

>>862107

>>862116

hurt_feelings.jpg


 No.870103

>>861797

>>861816

I tried it before.

>Can I post to it without giving it my phone number, state id and full palm prints?

No. You have to give a phone number and wait some number of days for the sign up process. Because everything is monetized they want to absolutely reduce botting, fake accounts and faked actions that reward money.

>What stops the flood, spam and who decides what content is allowed or not?

Nothing as far as I can tell. They're very particular about the sign up process.

>Give me a client that's not just another web browser please.

Don't know this one.

>Who exactly owns the blockchain? Are there any real people/servers who keep the distributed shit like in buttcoin or is it just a buzzword with data on central server?

Don't know this one.


 No.870110

>>861329

Please give me IPFS in I2P soon.


 No.872577

Big Tech is the future. Submit or be destroyed.


 No.872590

>>861329

>How much of this wave of decentralized software has substantial hype?

It's hyped but on the wrong side for example mastodon was hyped and not gnu social ?

Why is their for example a blocklist who banned the biggest Gnu social instances to interact with Mastodon instances ?

Why is that list made by a Microsoft employee ?

Why is the Microsoft employee also a W3C member ?

Why is Webber (part of the FSF) shilling for W3C adoption of a protocol (ActivityPub) and not Ostatus which has exactly the same functions of Ostatus but with more bugs ?

It's a way of controlled opposition.

If people really wanted decentralization people would go on Gnunet and even that project has been infected by snowflakes.


 No.872659

>>872590

Exfuckingcactly. The hype is all bullshit fake, and is going to be destroyed very soon.


 No.872662

>>870110

>caring about controlled IPFSition

No


 No.873274

>>862116

>>862107

this tbh fam


 No.880940

>>873274

Sorry we called out your controlled opposition cuckchanner.


 No.881347

hype has no bearing on anything. we need good decentralizated software/protocols and we don't have any. freenet is a start. this has been the state for a decade or two. if it's good, elite will use it and retards can join later when they finally realize it's good


 No.882188

File: f5e355a0fd18d2a⋯.jpg (46.04 KB, 500x500, 1:1, Anarchy_Ballot Box.jpg)

>>861576

https://trello.com/c/1GUWaZiN/49-why-we-dont-need-government-to-function-as-a-society

When we're forced to pay one group of people for public services, with no alternatives, their priorities then become that of those who willingly pay them (Lobbyists), expecting something in return. Because the state continues to receive payment, regardless of their quality of service.

So instead of Government, what if we chose who we gave money to in exchange for services in the public sector? Such as Courts, Hospitals, Security, ect.

Society is Private sector plus Public Sector, both organized in a significantly horizontal fashion according to anarchy.

Private: Belonging to, concerning, or accessible only to an individual or specific group. A for-profit business.

Public: All the people as a whole or as a community. Goods or Services that benefit all of society rather than the individual. These include Security, Infrastructure, Transportation, Education, Healthcare, ect.

Monopolies are enforced through state aggression.

Adam Smith's definition of Monopoly:

The privilege of a legal barrier to competition, such as a license or franchise.

This can be simplified to being “A grant (Funds or products given or allowed) from the state”.

Therefore to compete with a monopolist is to go against the state.

Such a person would be suppressed by force, which is why monopolies and aggression are intimately related. Tariffs (Restrictions on foreign goods) are Oligoplistic (Ol-i-gop-lis-tic: Multiple Monopolies) making them a burden on both consumers and manufactures. This includes copyrights and patents as well.

Monopolists are in a much stronger position to influence politics due to their greater financial resources. Because when the monopolizer is the only supplying firm, they have the power to raise prices without adversely affecting demand for their products/ services.

The reasons for why they would influence politics, could be to ensure no anti-monopoly measures are undertaken. But also, to extend the monopoly to include other products or services, or to reduce safety regulations and worker rights. Monopolies can also be made into the reason for why more state controls are needed, which would also be under their influence.


 No.882284

>>882188

You certianlly feel strongly about your beliefs, as do I my own. Your only flaw in your reasoning is you expect people to behave like you. There are certian types of people in this world where an organized police force is required, followed by a state to set punishment accordingly and fairly. Furthermore, this rebuttle on "Liberterianism" as a whole I believe would help you realize further problems with the Anarchist model http://www.kevinalfredstrom.com/2014/02/american-dissident-voices-liberty/


 No.882334

>>882284

You know police forces, judges, and prisons exist in an anarcho-capitalist society right?


 No.882416

>>882334

So what, the people who directly interact with them are paying for them? So poor people won't have access to police, judges and rich man's prison?


 No.882473

>>882416

They will likely be interacting with police, thrown in prison, etc.


 No.882481

>>882473

So what you mean to say is that policemen, judges and prison operators won't get paid; they do their jobs on a voluntary basis.


 No.882557

>>882481

No they will be paid by the businesses they are protecting.


 No.882563

File: 86ce466d94a7cd5⋯.jpg (105.42 KB, 702x991, 702:991, 86ce466d94a7cd5c7e6e2fdb87….jpg)


 No.882610

>>882557

So what you're telling me is that people who do not pay the police do not get police services or judge services. If they don't pay the prison, they will get thrown into poor man's prison because it is a private business. Society is not allowed to hold them accountable other than by refusing to pay them and stating their voice about their inhumane treatment.


 No.882630

>>882610

>So what you're telling me is that people who do not pay the police do not get police services or judge services

Someones gonna pay for them, might not be you.

>If they don't pay the prison, they will get thrown into poor man's prison because it is a private business

Feeding people in prison is expensive, if you are intruding on others property you will probably just get deported.

>Society is not allowed to hold them accountable other than by refusing to pay

The poor or the business I don't get what you mean.


 No.882631

>>882630

>Society is not allowed to hold them accountable other than by refusing to pay

Misread what you said there. Okay.

A business can be held accountable for contract violation or intruding on someones property by a judge, and a private contract insurance agency.


 No.883180

>>868460

More like anon's first attempt at advertising.


 No.883621


 No.885362

>>861343

This. I shit on Google's impending grave, fucking niggers.


 No.885363

>>861329

Never gonna happen. Sorry. Enjoy eternal cloud storage.


 No.885978

>>861549

Decentralization frightens the Jews be they government or corporate. They are scared shitless of it and dead set against it.


 No.886022

>>863396

Is that the Wikileaks shit? Do you know where I can find all of them? I lost it by accident, and couldn't think of a way to research that would work to get them back.


 No.886083

>>886022

Everytime someone says "IT'S THE RUSSIANS! IT'S ALWAYS THE RUSSIANS! ONLY THE RUSSIANS!" mention JTRIG to them. Western governments do it to.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Threat_Research_Intelligence_Group

https://theintercept.com/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/

https://www.schneier.com/gchq-catalog/

https://www.aclu.org/other/jtrig-tools-and-techniques

If you can sleep well after reading this, you're a big guy.




[Return][Go to top][Catalog][Nerve Center][Cancer][Post a Reply]
Delete Post [ ]
[]
[ / / / / / / / / / / / / / ] [ dir / asmr / ausneets / cafechan / htg / kc / leftpol / sonyeon / vg ]